 You know what the problem is is that, uh, we blamed it on fat, right? And then we said, Oh no, it's sure it's carbohydrates. That's all okay. So that's all been debunked. Well, but here's the thing. And then they'll say it's salt. These are all the things that hurt you, but the reality is heavily processed foods are high in all those things. Cause that's what makes them palatable. And you eat more calories than you eat foods that are heavily processed. That's a fact. It's summertime. You know what that means? Time to get shredded, which is why I'm going to give away the shredded summer bundle. Okay. Here's what you get for free. If you win the contest maps, aesthetic maps, hit maps prime and the intuitive nutrition guide to help you with your diet. Okay. That bundle for free, but you got to do this. Leave a comment below in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode, subscribe to this channel, turn on notifications. If we pick you as the winner, we'll notify you in the comments. You'll get the shredded summer bundle for free. By the way, everybody else. That bundle, which is normally discounted is 50% off. So you can actually sign up for it. If you don't win and get half off, we are also putting maps hit by itself at 50% off. Okay. So you can find both at maps, fitness products.com, but you have to use the code June 50 for that discount. All right. Here comes the show. The obesity epidemic, there is one main culprit. It's not fat, it's not sugar. It's ultra processed foods. If you watch the consumption of ultra processed foods, you can line it up right with a graph and shows how the more of those we the more obese we have become. You've said that before, mainly Doritos. You've said that before, but I don't know if I've ever seen that graph before. Yes. I don't know if I've seen one either, but you keep saying it on the bottom. If you look at the, like the percentage of our diet that's made up of heavily processed foods and I agree with you. And I think that makes total sense, but I don't know if I've ever seen somebody pull up a graph that shows you what the problem is, is that we blamed it on fat, right? And then we said, oh, no, it's sugar, that's all been debunked. Well, but here's the thing. And then they'll say it's salt. These are all the things that hurt you. But the reality is heavily processed foods are high in all those things because that's what makes them palatable. And you eat more calories when you eat foods that are heavily processed. That's a fact. So when, okay, when, what year, what year, I mean, we've been processing food forever, but what year did it like explode? Like when did it really start to become a part of our lives? Yes. It started to really kick up in the seventies. Really. You had TV dinners, which kind of became a thing in the fifties. You had to be related to the microwave, right? Microwave made a big, made a big part of that. Also, for a long time though. Also, um, dual income households grew quite a bit. So traditionally you had one parent at home, usually the mom, and she usually prepared meals. When both parents work, convenience became a big factor. We need food to be convenient and easy. Heavily processed foods entered, um, into, are you two hunting this down right now so I can make sure you're cells not lying? No, I'm not lying, bro. This is a hundred percent. Well, we know, we know for a fact that it's excess calories. We know it's not activity. We used to think it was, oh, we're not moving enough, but we, we show that that doesn't make up that big of a difference. It's that we eat too damn much. And the best studies on the show that people eat 600 more calories a day just from eating heavily processed foods. That's a big difference. That's the deficit that we put people in when we're trying to get them to lose body fat. It's always been in the food, like certain companies, best interest to get you to keep consuming their product. So like all of their science and efforts went into like having you not just be able to eat one and be satisfied, but eat multiples and get through the entire, uh, you know, chip bag or the entire, uh, food so you could go back and you buy more. Dude, do you know how many potatoes are in a large bag of Lay's potato chips? Like eight? No, it's like five, four or five. Most nobody could eat four or five plain potatoes. Most people couldn't do that all in one sitting, but I know a lot of people that could eat a whole bag of chips. No problem. I know I could. Yeah. Yeah. So it makes that big of a difference. It'd be interesting to see how much the average Americans diet is made up of process 70% today. Yeah. Well, and so where I was going with that was the, how that's changed. Okay. Where was it 10 years ago? Where was it 10 years before that? Where was it, you know, 40 years ago? That's a good thing to look up. I think that would be a really good thing because that would, that I think that would, whether you, these guys, look, they can't find graphs. Doug's having a hard time. I see over there. You know how to Google? Yeah. No, obviously you're struggling too. Maybe sells a liar. No, no, I have, I have one graph, but it's not exactly what I want. You can just look up what percentage of our diets has made up of heavily processed foods over the years. And then maybe we'll find some numbers. But wow, what's that? That's obesity. I mean, obesity is just like skyrocketed 1960. We see, and that's really about the time that you know, ultra-processed foods became really, I mean, Doug, what else happened? Doug, when you're a kid, what else that was, what else that was crazy from the sixties to now? Well, I mean, there was the low fat, fat that, you know, what they did is they added sugar instead of fat to food. Uh, the other thing was the use of high fructose corn syrup. Well, I mean, sugar is literally in like, like, what do they say, 80, 80 or 90% of all foods in the grocery store? Yeah. All these, all these things that Doug is talking about are ways of making food more palatable and processing them more to do so. But I mean, that's, that's exactly what I said. Like, Doug, when you were a kid, do you remember how much of meals were heavily processed foods versus today? Well, I mean, I can't speak for everybody, but my family, you know, we basically, my mom cooked everything. So going out to eat was actually a treat. Yeah. You know, it's funny. If you look at Europe, their obesity rates have obviously taken off as well. Italy, um, actually did pretty well for a long time. Now my family's from Italy and Italians are, and the culture is very centered around homemade food. They tend to be food snobs when it comes to food, but now they're heavily processed. Food consumption has gone up as well. And their obesity has gone up. Doug, when, when, when was the, the Twinkie and the Ho-Ho invented? Oh, those were old. Oh, that's pretty old. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So that wasn't a majority of a person's diet. I know, but okay, but I mean, those, okay, those things have been around forever. Now you, so you think it's processed foods more than it is like the lack of exercise and movement? That's been, that's for sure been, been proven for sure. They've tried to connect it to activity and that doesn't, because if we had all the same amount of processed food, the chips, the Ho-Ho's, all these things that we had in the 40s and 50s, when kids were outside playing and doing things, you think that we would still see, you would still, you would see very close numbers, probably a little different, but you would still see very close, because you got to think that a huge spike is not a single thing, right? Technology has played a role, right? Atari came in what, the 70s? So kids weren't even glued to television before the, before the 70s. Doug, that graph right there with obesity, what year is it where it really started to take off? Around 1960. No, no, no. Well, yeah. So it was probably around 1990s. Okay. They really started to do the. Really start to take off? Yeah. I mean, we should have the answer. You really, you really started to see the explosion of both parents working and convenience became a huge thing. So it was a lot of meals that were in boxes. I mean, I mean, I know that was for our family, right? So like, uh, what was that? What's the truck, the Swanson truck? What's the truck that goes around the frozen, the, the guy that drives, is it Swanson? Yeah. Do you guys ever get Swanson? No. Yeah. My family got Swanson. We had bagel bites. Yeah. No, that was Costco like supply. That was part of that. Swanson's did bagel bites. They did corn dogs. They did frozen burritos. And those were all became like staple things in my house. And it wasn't when I was really young. When I was really young, my mom made dinner almost every night for us. And that was pretty good. And she still made dinner a lot. If my mom listens to this, my mom was amazing. She made lots of dinners. Okay. She must have gotten in trouble for a little caviar. I can't always get busted for my mom. That's not true. You exaggerate it. Okay. Okay. But we did have the frozen foods that I remember that's when it got introduced to me. And then I remember when I was on my own, that's what I lived off. Well, dessert was also a food group. Yeah. Like I noticed that it was like always like you have meal, but they had dessert after the meal, especially dinner. Well, you know, it's an interesting another interesting place to look at is Mexico. Mexico, obesity was non-existent. And then all of a sudden exploded. And now Mexico is one of the most I thought they connected to Coke. So does soda. So does in heavily processed foods. They're they're heavily processed food consumption and soda consumption was like zero. And then all of a sudden it became a part of the culture. That's interesting. Okay. So Doug says the nineties were with the Pepsi Wars when in nineties, right? I think so. That was the that was the that was the worst. Yeah. The call that definitely had to have been a factor in the whole thing with in combination. Doug, look at Mexico's. That's okay. So like when did like like soda vending machines get really popular? Like that has to be like 90s and 90s. You ever look at the size of a Coke from the 60s? Well, okay. You've ever seen that? Have you ever just not that Coke, fries, burgers, everything was a serving size. What we consider a small today was like an extra large or bigger. Yeah. Back back in the 50s. So also like like 7-Eleven was big in my family. So we'd go like after church or whatever come by big gulps and then like double gulps. And it's like you're almost drinking a full like two liters. No, they have they have I took a picture when we were when we had mine pump when we first started, I stopped at a 7-Eleven had been in one of them forever and they had I forgot what it was called, but it was it was a fucking gallon, dude. Like a refillable. He has a handle. I've seen that. Yeah. Yeah. It was this big. I took a picture of it on Instagram when first like this was what, seven, eight years ago or whatever. Yeah. Dude, if you if for anybody who denies this kind of stuff, if you have kids healthy like I have a you know, my son's 19 months old, right? And we don't give him lots of this stuff at all. We just don't need a lot of it anyway, but especially because he's a little kid. We were at a party over the weekend. He never drinks juice, let alone soda. Yeah. I don't even think he's ever tasted soda, but he's never had juice. We don't have juice. We drink water and I got one of those Capri sons throughout the party. I had a Capri son and I'm like, I'm going to have him taste a little bit. And he attacked it. Like he put the straw in his mouth and he's trying to get the whole thing and I take it out of his mouth and he's like once I throw a tantrum. Yeah. And I had to finish it myself so that he could have a tiny bit and be like, oh, we're all done, buddy. And you can see the look on his face. I want more. I'm like, oh, my God, it's powerful. Yeah. It's powerful stuff. Well, and it's compounding right. So like you introduce it to them at that young of age. And I think, you know, not trying to condemn any parents that did this and so with that. But I mean, you introduce it, you know, like, oh, it's so cute. It's funny watching them do that. And then they get used to the Capri sons. And then that's that's like, that's like, becomes water to them. And then they need the next level of sugar to get that same sensation. And then they get that. And then the next sensation. That's how you end up with these gallon big gold drinks because of how much you need. What does that say there for for Mexico, Doug? Boy, look at the growth of that. I'm looking at the graph between 1975 to 2016. And around 1975, the obesity rate was probably around 8 percent. And in 2016, more around 30 percent. That's Mexico. That's Mexico. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And that was a member they what was the whole cope thing? Or the the the Pepsi going there? Oh, I don't know when they started making a big a big push in there. I do know that I talked to K. I remember who it was. It was a trainer, fitness expert who spoke Spanish. We met them at one of these events and he was starting. He was thinking about starting a podcast and doing in Spanish. I thought that was a great idea because it's, you know, Spanish speaking countries like they really have a need for this and a desire. And he was going through some of the stuff and he goes, it's crazy how much he goes. Obesity was not even a thing a few decades ago, whereas here in America, we were talking about the obesity. We've been talking about obesity epidemic for a while. He goes, it exploded over there and he goes and, you know, soda became a part of the culture. Like every meal you serve soda. So he's like, I really want to, you know, create this for Spanish speaking countries in particular Mexico. Do you believe we correct it? That we're going to reverse it? Yeah. I don't. Boy, I don't, I mean, I don't know how. I mean, if you've ever had, have you guys ever had anybody in your family or dealt with addiction at all, like drugs and stuff like that? Have you ever had it? Do you guys have anybody close to you that you've seen it like firsthand or anything? I had a friend, but not family member. I have. It's like it's a crazy, unbelievably powerful thing to watch, right? Like just how, how much it takes over somebody's life. The things that you do, you know, just to get your fix and things like that. And you're talking about drugs, right? Things that we've socially demonized and are bad and food doesn't have that same, you know, label as drugs do, but yet could potentially harm you the same way if you abuse it and over-consume it. So this is the reason why I don't think that we correct it is because it's still celebrated. We don't look. Nobody looks at food right now and goes like, be careful that like cocaine or heroin or pills or anything else like that. Nobody looks at it like that still. Well, look at what you're doing. The worst you get is when you go to the grocery store and then check out, you got like a pint of ice cream. They go, oh, you're treating yourself tonight. Like, I didn't need all that. Well, I'll give you guys an example of how challenging this is. There was a study that was published. I go on sciencedaily.com. Great place, by the way, to look up studies. And there was a debate over ultra-processed foods, which to me is always like really a debate. So I'm pretty sure one side is accurate. The other side is funded by heavily processed food companies. Sure enough, I read the arguments. OK, on one side, the argument is studies show that people consistently over consume when their diet is made up of heavily processed foods. Very true. They've done some of the best controlled studies on this and it averages out about 600 more calories a day, which will make you gain a lot of weight in a short period of time. The opposing argument. You're ready for this? The opposing argument was, well, you know, plant-based foods, which are really good for us and good for the environment, are often ultra-processed, you know, because you eat like a fake meat product or whatever. So they're trying to argue that those are healthy because they're plant-based and therefore these are OK ultra-processed foods. So we shouldn't demonize them as things that are unhealthy. It's this is what makes it so challenging because then you get the average person who's hears all this information and says, you know, OK, let's have dinner guys, but we're going to eat healthy today. So instead of regular nuggets, we're going to have vegan nuggets. We're going to have pizza with no meat on it because it's all vegan. And we're going to it's going to be awesome and we're going to be so healthy. So people are so confused about, you know, what what's going to help them? Do you know I read it? I read a thing on vegans. You know how what percentage of people that do the vegan diet go back? Oh, it's it's got to be a lot like 60 percent. 82. Whoa, double check. It's like eighty two or eighty four eighty four eighty four somewhere that range. Because the majority of people do it because they think it's going to improve their health and lose weight. Yeah. And the only people that stick to it are the ones that have like ideologies attached to it. Yeah, like like a real strong moral eighty four percent. Eighty four eighty four percent. Yeah. Did you also see? So this this might get a little touchy, but it's all right. That's vegan or vegetarian. Yeah. Yeah. And again, it's a majority of people who think they'll doing it to lose weight or to improve their health. They don't have any real moral. Yeah, they watch the documentary. And also it's like people who do it because they really, really think that it's better for animals and they really don't want to hurt animals. They're they're more likely to stick to it. I still think there needs to be a market for like vegetables that are actually made out of meat. There's been funny memes of people like broccoli. That's just like sculpted meat. Bro, this is this brown. It will look this taste just like broccoli, but it's made out of sausage. So you just you just look more virtuous that way, you know, but you're not quite as you pretending. Yeah, you're not quite vegan. You're eating you're eating a salad, but it's made out of meat. Yeah. They're like, oh, you do. It's so good. I am doing good. Thank you. This is no. OK, so this might get touchy, but a a disproportionate percentage of people who are vegan have mental disorders like anxiety and depression, more so than people who are omnivore type diets. There's a couple of theories as to why one has to do with the nutrient deficiencies that are more present in vegan diets because vegan diets require you to have more variety to make up nutrient imbalances where creatine kind of helps to address some of that could be that it could be the B vitamins are very common low iron. There's certain nutrients that are harder to get. That's why vegans often get encouraged to take supplements. So that's that. And then the other one is this, is that someone who may feel is more likely to be anxious or depressed. Maybe this is a theory, maybe more likely to attach themselves to an ideology like veganism to say, OK, well, I'm doing this because this is better for whatever. So those are two theories. But but studies do show a greater percentage have those things. So you know, since you brought up processed foods, I got to bring up this article that I read. Were you guys in the room when I was sharing about dipping dots to Doug? No, you know, I've never had dipping dots. Oh, really? Yeah. What is it? My son, like, was talking about it the other day. He's like, oh, we'll try that. They're like free. It's like freeze dried ice cream balls. So it's like when I was a kid, have you guys tried them? I've never tried it. It's smaller. Have you tried them before? No, I haven't. Oh, wow, that's great. Yeah, you tried them. I've usually seen them, but hold on. I didn't get the hype around it. Is this like when I ate astronaut ice cream in high school and in oh, yeah, it's kind of like that. Remember when they bring you that freeze dried? Yeah. Yeah. And it kind of dissolves in your mouth. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's super cold, dissolves your mouth and has the flavors of it. Yeah, it's all right. Like, I mean, you know, I'm an ice cream guy that I wouldn't consider it like gourmet ice cream. So it's you don't catch me. I thought it was weird. So it just dissolves. Is it even satisfying because it kind of not as satisfying? That's part of the reason why I don't like it either, right? You play football games like ball games. So that's where I've had it. Like a unless messy, maybe. Yeah. They're less messy. And they're whatever they're fun at hot baseball game. And you have these frozen, you know, dipping dots you can have, whatever. But anyways, my point of bringing that up is what such it hasn't had it because then this conversation is kind of stupid I guess, the business model. So the article that I read, did you look it up dog after I told you about it? I'm looking up now. I can't seem to find it though. So how they make most of their money cream. What? What? So there are there are massive. They sell spoons. No, they're a massive like manufacturing for freeze dryers for massive companies, like huge like quarter million dollar machinery that they supply for companies that need like free like freeze dryer machines or whatever. What do you call those? I don't know what you call it. I have no idea. I have no idea what you call those massive for machines that make the the dipping dots. Well, not just dip a dots anything that you would freeze dry like lots of things get so that's how they make a majority of their money. Yeah, all of it. The dipping dots thing is just like a byproduct. I can ship food a lot easier with the free. Yes, yes. Yeah, like you have huge places that that's how they store they store their food. I mean, when we receive, I believe our butcher box comes in a freeze. No, no, they freeze it, but then they put dry ice pack thing. Yeah, yeah. How do you think the dry ice packs where they store all these big packs like that that's they get they get stored in like a freeze dry. That's how they make their money. Yeah, I always wondered how profitable some of these like a dipping dots location is or whatever. You wonder that? I am. I always wonder about businesses that you look at and you go like, how do they make remember we remember we had that discussion. I think we had a podcast about the hunting store. Yeah, just doesn't make sense to me. And I know people. Okay, we brought that up and people DM me and they're like, well, Adam, it's like the biggest hunting pro. Yeah, Bass Pro shops, right? Yeah, we know that. But also still doesn't make sense to me an outrageous amount of square footage to sell product like, come on, you don't need all that and the and the build on it and the and the margins have to pay to get in, right? Because at that point, like you build something that grandiose, you'd want to have like a mission fee or something to like cover, you know, what places always make me wonder that we'll go somewhere nice. Like we were in Carmel a few weekends ago, Jessica and I were walking through the nice town Carmel is expensive place, right? A lot of like tech billionaires and millionaires will buy a house there because it's on the beach gorgeous, right? Yeah, and we're walking through town and I see the Eastwoods mirror. Yeah. Huh? Is that true? Right? What happened? Is it not? That's a not Carmel. Is it Carmel Doug? Do you know? He's he is near me. I know that. Who's this? Carmel. Yeah. Yeah. He's a mayor there. No, he was a long time ago. Oh, interesting. Well, I only know that because I actually serviced his house. And we reglaze the windows. I know before you come, you know, interested with a different job title that I was you serviced. Yeah. Yeah. I'm here to glaze. So yeah, it was a glazer. Yeah. I mean, so we're walking through the town and I know it's expensive to have a shop near the beach there and that nice downtown. I know it. $20,000 minimum super expensive right? And I'm looking at these shops. I'm like candles and crystals. Okay. Like how the hell is this lady or whoever making the how are they supporting them? I mean, the margins are crazy. So I said last night I wouldn't pick that. I don't care how big the margin machine $30,000 somebody bought her the store. Yeah. And then there's a brand it's a brand of ice cream right now that I buy that's it's $20 a pint for ice cream. Why? It's well, it's like what it's all this homemade and I told you what it doesn't flare up my psoriasis. So it's like they sweeten it with honey and all these like natural ingredients and like hardly anything in it that's processed like it's all natural. And of course, you would buy $20 ice cream. Dude, it's not just me. I had to wait in line. What? Yes. $20 ice cream a pint, bro. Now it's like, you know, Ben and Jerry's across you like 499 or three bucks or whatever like that, 20 bucks a pop. Now is it good? It's amazing. Wow. It's amazing. It's weird. Revival ice cream and Monterey they ship all over. I've actually been trying to get the owners because I've been eating it now for like a year. I found it last year. And I was amazed by how I've told you guys before I part of why I can't mess with ice cream is like it'll flare up my psoriasis really bad. And yet I love it still, right? So I'm always on the search of like alternatives and a lot of the alternatives are just like, tell me, dude, I can't have dairy you know, knowing it every time we go get ice for somewhere and there's an ice cream place, I'm always like, I'll get the dairy free option and it's always like, and they're dairy by the way, they're raspberry sorbet. They're dairy free options bomb. So I make it with Doug, will you pull up the ingredients so I don't mess up exactly what's what's in it? Well, look at that one's got cookies on either side. Yeah, like what's their stick like it's just because it's that good or do they like make it a different way? It's well, it's homemade. The ingredients are all natural and organic like so and it's and it's in Monterey, your Carmel area, right? So you're talking about these areas that where people are can afford to pay $20 for ice cream. Yeah. I thought it was a mistake the first time I had the very first time I did it, I door dashed it and I got a $100 bill and I'm like, Oh, shit, I must have put like 40 of these things back in like four. Yeah, I got four of them. I was like, what the hell? That's crazy. Speaking of expensive stuff. You guys see gas over here in California. It's almost $7 a gallon for premium. Insanity. I heard it's I heard in LA it's eight now. What? So here's what I wonder how are people because a lot of people live people still driving a lot of people save barely enough every month to save a little bit. How are they doing it right now? Yeah, no, if you're commuting that that's killing it. I mean, if you're if you live within five miles of your work, not such a big deal, right? You're just gonna have to limit how much you're driving outside of that. But boy, if you have to commute to work, this is gotta be making a massive impact on people. Well, you know what they're doing. We were talking about this earlier is rather than raise the price of products, they're just making products smaller. Yeah. So like you'll go buy toilet paper. Yeah. Oh, look, the toilet paper is the same price. It's one third left. They're doing that with everything. I know. It's and it's, you know, it's super sneaky start noticing it. Oh yeah, your bags of chips, your toilet paper, you're saying your toothpaste air being wrapped. Well, nobody even thinks about like I have I mean, do you have idea what your guys is regular toothpaste? How many ounces is it? It's a weird ounce. It's like 4.7. It's never it's never like an even number. It's weird. So you know, they shave off 0.5 off all these things and and then on top of that, raise it to raise it a little bit and then shave it. Maybe a maybe the silver lining. We're talking about obesity earlier. People walk everywhere. And they don't even notice it's like, well, I'm like, yeah, I'm doing great. I'm losing weight. I mean, what I always do, I'm just walking more. Maybe I haven't changed anything. If extra toilet paper and toothpaste is making people fat. Hey, speaking of speaking of foods I wish I could eat and I can't have dairy and also our sponsor Magic Spoon, right? I wish I could have it. I've tasted it's delicious. But it's got whey protein and I can't do dairy. I know you guys eat at all time. An article in pop sugar. They just wrote an article on it. I don't know if you guys familiar pop sugar. I've heard of it. Yeah, so they wrote an article on it and they got rave reviews. But it's gluten free grain free. It's a gluten free grain free. It's got obviously very, very low carbohydrate, no sugar. Yeah. And the protein is whey encasing. It's literally a bodybuilding supplement in in like kid serial. They barely they've barely remember when you we first got what we started really touched that they are now market. Yeah, they are. Oh, okay. Yeah. Remember when Sal made a big deal about that when we first started working with them like how is this not in the bodybuilding community? I'm like, no, it's not. And that was back when I was still around it. Yeah. And I remember watching like waiting and we sent some of our friends. I actually sent some boxes to them to try that were bodybuilders. But now they've sponsored a bunch of right there, the article. Yeah, I remember the protein cookies and the donuts for a while were crazy within like the bodybuilding community. Like cereal is like a huge one. Well, so the sweetener blend that they use is monk fruit and Alulose. So these are very, very low sugar types of sugars that you find certain fruits. So you get that sweetness, but like almost zero grams of sugar, chicory root inulin, which is a prebiotic fiber. So I don't know if you guys ever look at the boxes fiber in the cereal from this and tapioca starch, which is gluten free. So when they do add a little bit of that starch, that's what it is. But yeah, I got rave reviews. That's cool. What was the cover of the pop sugar? Was it Justin Timberlake or yeah, I don't know. I'm not getting it. Come on, man. I'm not getting the joke that you're trying to pull. Pop sugar? Like what kind of magazine is that? Oh, those are the old. I just see it the one that you're like 17. Exactly. Pop sugar is actually, I think it's a fitness magazine or fitness article, right? Is that Doug? Where they come from? I don't know. It says fitness, this particular article. How did you find that? But they may report on all types of things. I got on the Google. You got on the Google. You are the best. I just feel like it's like Bieber or somebody is you are the best. It is kind of I think like a people magazine. Yeah, it's like everything that's cool or happening right now. Exactly. That's why I'm like, why are you reading that? Yeah, that's all. No, I don't I don't subscribe or anything like that. I just I looked up news on Magic Spoon because I know we're going to talk about them today. And I saw this article and it's good. It's good covers. Yeah. Did you read the, did you read the or watch the YouTube video I sent over to you that the Thomas DeLauer guy did on HMB. I got sent a bunch of people. You know HMB. I always defer supplements stuff to you. I didn't even watch myself see HMB. I think it's hydroxy methyl butyrate. Maybe you could look it up, Doug. But it's a it's a metabolite of leucine, the amino acid leucine. And we know that leucine is a muscle protein synthesis signaler, right? So it tells your body to build muscle. Leucine is one of the branching amino acids. And in studies. So HMB, let me see a hydroxy methyl butyrate. Oh, good. I remember. HMB is an interesting supplement. It's actually one of the most studied organic supplements out there, probably second only to creating that much on lots of studies. Now here's the interesting thing with it. People who supplement with HMB they tend to be stronger, have more muscle or lose less muscle when they're dieting. But in a very high protein environment, doesn't make a difference. In comparison to leucine, not that big of a difference. Now the studies are promising. I've used HMB 50 times because studies come out and I go, okay, I'm gonna give it another shot or I'm gonna give another shot. I never can tell. I can never tell when I take it. So is it derived from a protein? What is it? It's a metabolite of leucine. The amino acid leucine. Which is part of a makeup of protein. Yeah. Yeah. And so that, okay, so that makes sense to me, right? So when these people tout the supplement, more likely it's where they're seeing these crazy results or claiming these crazy results are like in the context of low protein diet. Correct. So they'll take people supplement, some of them supplement with HMB some which we know the average person is under consuming on protein as it. Yeah. But take somebody who is dialed nutritionally or is consuming enough protein or over. You're not going to see. I don't think you'll see a difference. Now, where the value reminds me of like branched in amino acid. Exactly. Like if you are what's a branched in leucine is the most important amino acid than branched in amino acids. Right. Same thing. And that's where that gets it. Okay. Exactly. You give BCAAs to people who are consuming, you know, a low protein diet. They notice a difference too. You bump the protein though and it doesn't make a difference. HMB tends to be one of those types of supplements. Now, here's the value I could see in it. It's easy to add. So in other words, I've seen them add HMB to some of the meal replacement shakes that they'll serve in what they call those homes for like retirement homes, or they'll give it some hospitals are starting to use HMB in their shakes for people who had surgery. And in that case, I could see value because they're not eating a lot of protein to begin with. Right. Adding the HMB can help. And so I don't say there's not no value. But like I said, I've supplemented with so many times. And I just I don't I've tried high doses. Yeah, I know I've gone way over what I'm supposed to just to see what what happens. And I've never noticed anything. Well, this is what makes creatine so awesome when you talk about you could tell when you take it for sure. Well, not only that, but even if you in the context of a high protein diet, you still will see a difference yes, taking creatine, where a lot of these supplements that get a lot of attention, meet many of the times that you see like all these this great response that they claim from it is due to somebody lacking something. Right. For example, like, okay, I rave about mellow all the time with for magnesium. Well, part of the reason why it's so amazing for me. I'm not stupid. I'm I'm deficient. Yeah. So me take it now. If you're somebody who gets enough magnesium, you take mellow, you're probably gonna feel shit from it. It ain't a big deal to you. So to me, that's what it's like the studies that show vitamin D raises testosterone when people supplement. Yeah, we're low vitamin D. Right. So I think that's the thing that you when you're when because the people that attract get attracted to these type of supplements or like your muscle building communities like that. And if you're already the kid who is hitting 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight, you know, I used to recommend HMB and branching amino acids to my vegan clients. So I had clients that were vegan and the legit was a better diet for them. Again, there's, you know, lots of different people. And some clients just they felt better eating that way. Usually not, but these clients did. And getting high protein for them was tough. They would have to supplement a lot with plant protein powders and stuff. And it was just kind of tough. So I said, Hey, let's supplement with branching amino acids around your workouts and use HMB. And they all saw phenomenal results. But that's because their protein, it's like it would be like, let's say one guy was he was an anesthesiologist one of the smartest guys I've ever worked with, by the way. Love the guy's name was Mike. He was a vegetarian. And his protein intake was probably around he's like a 200 pound guy tall dude. He probably ate like 70, 80 grams of protein a day. So for him BCAA's like made a huge difference. He noticed a tremendous difference. Yeah. Now if he was eating 150 grams of protein a day, it's not going to it's not going to make that big of a difference at all. So it depends who you are. That's where you'll see the value. You know, type of doing transitioning out of fitness and nutrition. Did you see the article that I sent over to you guys in the group thread about the 40 year mortgage? Oh, you called it, didn't you? Yeah. Right. I got an email from one of my time you called something. That's why I got to point it out because or else you forget. Oh, that's one for out of a good one. Hey, did you hear that? I called out 30 times. Yeah, I've been one 30 times. No, I mean, that's crazy, dude. How far are they going to go with this? You know, yeah, you know, I saw another article too about like the future is like fractional home owning is the future. There's a couple of companies that blew up over the last decade. They're just trying so hard to prevent house prizes from going down. And the truth is we kind of need the correction. It's it's I mean, if you care about the average person that is, if you're already the wealthy and so that you don't give a shit, right? If you don't care about other people, right? But if you own your house for 20 years, you don't want your home value to go down. Yeah, no, but I mean, it's moving out of the reach of the majority of people. I mean, it's you real soon here. I mean, God, where we live, like you can't find a shack for under a million. No, it's depressing. Yeah, I think of your kids trying to like stay here. Well, yeah. And you and now and the loans are tougher to get now than they were 10, 15 years ago. So you had not a lot of people can save $200,000 saving $200,000 in an area where you like this, the income you have to make to even say what are you going to do? You're going to buy a house with a 40 year mortgage, you're 30. That means you're going to have a mortgage till you're 70. And hopefully the value keeps going up so that maybe you could do, you know, some kind of a reverse mortgage when you retire. But you know what? We've we've taught Americans that you don't buy a house to pay it off. You buy it for the write off purposes, you buy it off for as an investment. That's how people buy it. So they don't even look at it as like you don't buy it go oh, I'm going to be 70 when I finally put no one thinks like that. I'm going to buy this because oh, they know the course of 20, 30 years it's going to be worth more money. And so you're thinking I'm going to flip it and sell it. I mean, I agree. I mean, I think at one point the bubble does have to burst. The problem is that there's like no where to go. There's everything bubble. Everything's a bubble market, the bubble, the houses. Well, we're also moving in this time too. We've talked about this before also that where, you know, ownership is becoming less I mean, look at the companies now with cars, you know, like renting high end cars like that and zip cars that you see around the world health or air be the economic form, right? Yes. Yes. Air BNB. I mean, we're the only country still that like home ownership is as big as it is, right? Isn't everywhere else much, much, much lower. Most places, right? Yeah, probably your more world travel than I am for sure. Yeah, I'm pretty sure we're one of the highest when it comes to like home ownership. Most places are renternations and I think we're just going to move into that direction. That's wild 40 year mortgage. Yeah. I mean, you're citing you're signing up for a long long journey, long crazy commitment. I mean, it's there's you're doing it. I mean, what tricks do they have left? If they raise interest rates too much, we have so much debt that we won't be able to pay back the debt. What they're doing right now, this is why they're going to continue. This is why I don't think they're going to ever permanently end their quantitative easing, aka printing money at a thin air. They're going to keep doing that because the only way they can continue to pay off their debt and continue to tear is to inflate the currency. Yeah, so they can either tax you directly. So this is a lot of people don't realize this. They can either tax you directly or they could tax you indirectly by making everything more expensive by devaluing the currency. And that's what they're doing right now. Yeah. Is that home ownership? Yes. So we're 65. Yeah, we're way down the list. 65% really? The highest home ownership is in where was that? Wow, China's almost 90. Romania, Laos, Hungary, Slovakia, the big country. So, so China, China, almost 90% of people in China own their home. Well, you gotta consider though. Yeah, wait a second. We gotta consider though with China where they were 30 years ago, where they are now that that of course is going to explode because 30 years ago, China was a very different country economically. So that makes perfect sense. Russia, Russia, same thing. Yeah. I did not know a lot of these are like, I thought we were I thought we were the highest. Well, Western world were probably one of the highest. Spain is a little higher than us. It looks like. So we're like one of the lowest. I was way down. I was way off on that. Interesting. I did not know that. Interesting. That I had you look. Wow. Well, let's see what happens. Yeah. So maybe we're going to be the first to move into this like renter renter nation comparison everywhere else. I don't know. Maybe very thought. I mean, is it? Who knows? I mean, I guess people are happy with it. I wouldn't be it's an opera. Look, I'll tell you what, it's an opportunity. In my opinion. It's an E. It's an interesting bet, right? You could buy properties now betting that everybody's gonna be renting in the future and buying properties will be almost impossible. So you'll be one of the first person you'll be one of the only people that has these properties that people can rent from. Well, that's the that's why the theories that there's all these is all this institutional money that's that's in single family. Yeah, that never happened before. Right? That's that's what some of the theories and rumor is that some of these are like some of them were are obvious we know about and then some of them are institutions that are that are pretending to be in are pretending to be individuals. Yeah. So they'll they'll like email someone like that has like a real estate portfolio as if they're a family who's you know, trying to move in this area. But they're really like, like a black stone, like a big institution. Interesting. But the person who's supposed to go out and go find these properties are targeting houses and so that and they're they're posing as if they were a an individual or a single buyer. Yeah, because I don't know how much truth there is to that but well, I'm sure because think of like, if you're the seller and you have options in that range, like if you're going to give it to a company versus like a family, so that's a theory more pulling to the family. So I could see them trying to mask that on some level. So that's that is that's exactly exactly right. That's the theory on what because someone might go they're trying to avoid the political pressure to that to both right. So it's but it's Justin's point is the point that they make why that's being done. Like why would why would Blackstone do something like that? Well, it's because exactly what you said, I'm a seller. I'm going to make my money no matter what. I'm moving no matter what they send like, I guess you don't meet them, right? Like fake Olin Mills picks. You know, it's just that simple. They send over an email saying, Hey, my family and I are interested in moving this area. We love your house. It's not, you know, could we and and because everyone's getting so many offers right now, they, they, you know, go towards that one thinking that it's an individual, but really it's not just an institution that's going in and I gotta tell you guys, I got I had this funny conversation with Jessica almost got in trouble. Thanks to you, Justin. So she gets in the car. She gets in the car and we're driving and then she reaches down into the side on the side door. There's like a little space space where you can store things or whatever. And she pulls out these sunglasses and she goes, Who's sunglasses are these? I'm like, Oh, those most left those there. I'm like, those must be Justin. She goes, these are girl sunglasses. I said, No, they're not. I said, I said, those are Justin. She's like, These are not guys sunglasses. These are girl sunglass. And so we went back and forth. I'm like, Rockets of Juicy Contour. Text. Text. Justin right now. Madsons. I wear black flies. Like I don't wear early ass. It's like a brown. They're big. I got a big ass face. They're like, it's got like a brown like frame, you know, I can't wait for my for me. They're not like those big round. She literally thought it was a old lady. You know, girls will wear those big like, yeah, that's what she thought. Exactly what she's thinking. Bro, we went back. I'm like, Can you? I said, We will text Justin right now. There's not a girl was in my car. You know how I got her? I said, putting him on your head. And she put him on she's like, Oh, yeah, they're Justin's because his head's like this. Why did I do that? Because you originally were getting our Felix Graves. You had like Nash or I put those on and they were like little side goals on my face. Son of a bitch, Nash Nash is what I wear. And you know, I got a real narrow, narrow face. I have to wear small glasses. I didn't even account for that. Like those one of those glasses that they just pin right here. That was a monocle. I like reading glasses for him. I like that. Felix Graves. Have you seen their Faraday? I like those. Did you do you? I can only do Jemisin. I think they're too feminine. My face for the Faraday's of the dog. I bought Faraday's originally thinking that I would like them and they came in. So did you guys know that? Oh, you guys knew this. You totally like all their glasses are named after like scientists and physicists and so I remember what was burning people. I remember what's his face said that right the owner when we had him here on the show. I thought that was so that was so cool that they did that. I think they should highlight that more and market it. They don't even talk about it. Yeah, I didn't even know. It's so cool. We have all these brands and names. I never want like Edison's. Yeah, I'm so diso I like how did I not like to go like these names. Put the black ones on Faraday's. They don't look like they really do. So that point how they come up. See, those are chicle. I think at the little like cat kind of features. I guess you can do that. Yeah, maybe. I got I got him and I gave him a Katrina right away. I was like, oh, shit, I can't wear these. I just thought it was funny. I should have it. I'll give the sal. You'll wear them. I just thought it was funny little eyeliner to wear. I thought it was hilarious because it's just because she goes to put about her head and like one ends here. And then she's like, oh, yeah, there ain't some either. It's Justin's some big ass head girl came in your yeah, either way. You know that, you know, there's funny, you know, there's like, there's like rules that were not rules, but there's like when you when you buy trying to find like sunglasses or glasses that like shape to your face, you're supposed to do the opposite of what your face is. So I have a I have I have a fat round face, right? We always talk about that. So like square, narrow lenses will better on someone like me round glasses don't go well with a round face. If you have like a much round someone like Sal, who has kind of like a chiseled and narrow kind of face like that, he can get away with like round round waiting for you to say beaky. I was thinking around because it was nice like features. Thank you. Yeah, I was like, yeah, bird like features you get out glasses. I just take my job off face and put whatever fuck. I take two glasses. I put them together. Smash it. You got a big head like just get your ski goggles. He wears that's where that trend came from. Yeah, that's where the world is helping. I never got into that. But you guys have big ass head. No, you know, for me, you know, the challenges with glasses is that my head is a bit narrow, but also they'll be too far from my face because you're right. My nose does push it out. So they'll be like your beak so you can see underneath, you know, hey, speaking of funny stuff with wives or whatever. Did you guys see Babylon Bees sometimes? Oh, God, they did. They did the podcast. They're my favorite. Did you see the podcast when they did? No, what is it? I reposted the podcast one that's that somebody posted. I thought yeah, no, there was one that said something like like and this is I sent it to Jessica because it's so this is so us. It's like man mystified by the appointment that he has to make that his wife told him about every day for the last 30 days. Oh my God. Yeah. And it was so accurate. The guy's like confused. Like, I don't remember today. That is today. That is Jessica and I every time. 100 percent. I'm like, what are we doing today? She's like the thing, you know, whatever. I'm like, you know, I've been telling you this for you know what I'm so guilty of is like getting mad too about it. What's going on? What is it? Why would you be in your calendar three weeks? I've literally reminded you every single day that you're mad at me today. Like, why is this? Why is this a guy thing? What is that? I'm so guilty that I'm so guilty of being like, why would you do it on this day? It's always random things like yeah, whatever, dude. Like it's not on my stack of priorities, you know, but it's on their stack of priorities. So it's like number one. Do you do this is what I do. I was like, I'll show up. Just plan it just whatever. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'll be there. Doesn't always work. But I saw it. I'm like, oh, this this doesn't just happen to me. Apparently I made a meme about it because it's very so accurate. Very common. Anyway, another thing for you, Justin. OK, so you I've shown you guys this before the cheese rolling race they do. I don't know where they do. Yeah, they roll down the hill. I think it's in Scotland. They chase after it, right? So you can watch videos. They chase after it. And it is not like a normal hill. It's a cliff. No, the challenge is that they can like literally run down this vertical cliff and they'll break their arms, tumble with it and their body just like flops all the way down. And yeah, there's all kinds of injuries and the award is the bro as the cheese. There is no money. You win the cheese that went down. Like I get it. You know, is that all they get? I thought they get it like a prize or like a trophy. That's it. Oh, that is bragging rights. It's a big, a big wheel of cheese. My kind of anyway, there's this American American girl wanted and she's getting like famous because of it. Really? Doug could look her up. Yeah. I don't know. It says in the title says American a woman from North Carolina. She won the annual cheese rolling contest in the United Kingdom. And I don't know. Apparently she's attractive. I don't know. Her name is Abby Lampy. Maybe you could look her up, Doug. A, B, B, Y, and then L, A, M, P. Fearless because that hill is like that grade is like this. Yeah. Well, I'm wondering like I'm trying to look her up to see how how like attractive she really is. I'm wondering if she's attractive or in that setting. Yes. Like think about all the people that chase after cheese down the hill. You know what I mean? Well, I'm picturing on the, you know, not people I would put on sports I could definitely she's cute. I could definitely. Oh, that she's cute. I mean, again, I wonder what her competitive that's the hill right there, huh? Yeah, it doesn't look that crazy right there. But when they have those camera shots, you can tell by the way people are hiking up. They're only like an angle just to hike up. It's crazy. Oh, you watch them. You can't. You cannot. It's impossible to run down without falling. I've never seen everybody rolls and falls. It's that steep for sure. There's no way. Like you got to be some kind of weird like cat ninja. Is that on your bucket list, Justin? I mean, if somebody were to say, hey, man, we're going to fly you out like I may consider careful. We have. Oh, wow, bro. You almost you almost put it out there. Yeah, careful. But you should know by now we got we got people everywhere. You know what I'm saying? So right up here is like, I just happened to put those events on. Justin, we'll get you out here. Hey, I don't know. Like it's kind of up my alley. I think it would be great for my pump. If you would definitely hurt myself, though, which would not be good. No, I don't know. Did you guys did either one of you guys read that article that's going around right now on the cancer treatment? I did. Immunotherapy. Really interesting. It was only, I think, 18 people, but every single person went to remission. So basically with the treatment percent, yeah, yeah. Now, here's the thing with cancer is that you often will see these like really exciting promising thing and then it doesn't really, you know, kind of work itself out. But this is exciting because it's this new technology. And what they did basically is through this technology, they teach your immune system to be more aggressive against cancer. And that's exactly what happened. And people went into everybody 100 percent cure rate, essentially. That's so awesome. I mean, just to see little glimpses of hope like that. Now, there's a high rate of like out allergic reaction and stuff like that from it because it obviously heightens your immune system. Yeah. So my fear would be, do you cure cancer but then create auto-immune issues? Now you have an overreactive. Yeah, but come on. Would you rather have an auto-immune issue or die of cancer? Well, of course. I mean, look at our current treatments with cancer. It's chemo. It's like, this will kill your cancer and, you know, maybe you. What type of cancer was it? Was it all different types or? I believe so. I can look it up. I don't think it would. I think they were all. And did it say, like, what stage they were in? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Obviously, the doubt they were, like, stage four and then went into remission, right? No. Early, early, early onset. No, I don't know. So, oh, 12 patients. Sorry. 12 patients who received this experimental treatment. It's really interesting. Yeah. It's six months of immunotherapy treatment. And they all went into remission. I think we're going to, I think we're going to find in our lifetime. I think we will. Wow. I really do. You know what the challenge is? There's a lot of, of course, people out there, oh, we're not going to ever cure cancer because we make so much money treating it. Baloney. If a pharmaceutical company discovered the cure for cancer, they would become the richest pharmaceutical company of all time. Of course. Bottom line. So that's baloney. Yeah. What it is, is an extremely complex disease. Two different cancers can be two completely different things. It's your own cells. So how do I kill your cells without killing you? Yeah. It's, it's very, very challenging. And then here's the other thing. One of the downsides of having a regulatory system like the FDA or in other countries they have other regulatory systems. Obviously they put in place to protect us. But the problem is the cost that it takes to introduce a drug, make it through trials and then hit the market is so expensive that if you're a pharmaceutical company and you have options of an experimental treatment that could potentially cure cancer or a new type of chemo and we know chemo can kind of work, we're going to invest in the thing that we think will get a return and we're not going to do these experimental new types of, of treatments. So that's what ends up happening is you don't get, so you get a lot of opiate painkillers. You get a lot of chemo type, you know, therapies for cancer and nothing really groundbreaking because the cost is just so high. It's too great. It's just too great. Yeah. So, but like I said, I think from what I've been reading about this new immunotherapy type treatment, this isn't the only drug. There's lots of drugs now going down this path. I think we'll solve it in our lifetime, hopefully. Yeah, that would be awesome. Hey, you got to check out Organifi. They're one of our longest running sponsors. They make products for daily wellness, active lifestyle, immunity, brain health, beauty and energy. All their products or most of the products are plant based, organic. Great stuff. I love their plant based protein. It tastes good. I can't have dairy. So it's my go to source of high quality protein. Go check them out. Head over to mind. Excuse me. Head over to organifi.com forward slash mind pump. Use the code mind pump for a discount. All right. Here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Brittany from British Columbia. Brittany, how can we help you? Hi, our guys. Thanks for having me on. I've been listening for a number of years, so about four or five years now. So it's pretty exciting for me to be here and asking questions. So thanks for that. I'm turning 40 next week. So my question sort of comes with the time. It's very strange for me. I'm a probation officer, so I work in an office all day. I don't really get out too much. I've been working out for about 12 years in the mornings mostly and in my hour or whatever. And for about six years or so, I've been lifting weight. But at work last week, we had to move some furniture around. And there was a filing cabinet to move and things like this. And I was unable to move these on my own when my co-worker next to me who doesn't work out doesn't move weight and maybe runs a lot here and there and chasing around her children moves this thing with some struggle, of course, that managed to do it. And so my question is sort of around the area of how can I get more of this practical strength where I can lift furniture or, you know, hold myself over a fence if I need to do. Yeah, that's a really great question. So a couple of things I want to address here with that. One is be very careful comparing yourself to other people because there's such a wide degree of, you know, genetic strength. I mean, I've been working out since I was 14 and I can't tell you how many times I've had employees or new members coming to the gym and just out lift me almost right out the gate. So there's that. There's also, you know, you might have days you're less strong than other days. So really the only fair thing to compare yourself to is to yourself. Now, the second party question is how do I increase my practical strength? Getting stronger generally in the gym will have some carryover to real life. But really it's the exercises that are compound gross motor movement that are going to give you the most carryover. So deadlifts and squats and overhead presses and then doing exercises that are not so conventional like farmer walks or rounded back carries like carrying a sandbag, that kind of stuff. Yeah, zurchar squats. There's a lot of carryover to those exercises to, you know, what you're talking about. A good program for that, by the way, MAP Strong is one of the best programs you have for applicable strength and the mass performance would be the other ones. Those are the two programs that I would say if you're looking for that kind of carryover, real world strength, those are the ones I would go for. Yeah, what did your workouts consist of, for the most part, like has it just been all machines or, you know, hypertrophy based? No, actually I'm totally in my house. I've been working out home for years because I don't like to go to the gym at five o'clock in the morning. I prefer to just not have to do my hair or anything before I go there. And so I've been, for the past two to three years now, I've been doing your other programs, actually. So I'm doing anabolic right now. This is my second time running through that. I've done performance and aesthetic as well. Are you, you've done performance already? Yeah. Okay, great. Because if I, listening to your question, I would run performance and then strong. I mean, based off of what you're trying to get out of it, I think those two programs are some of the best programs for that. I think the performance is going to address the multi-planar movements and I think anti-rotational stuff that you're gonna get from that. And then for strong, you're gonna get some of the things that Sal was talking about, rounded back lifts, search or squat, stuff like that. Are you stronger in your workouts? Do you feel stronger in your workouts than you did, let's say, two, three years ago, generally? I think I do, but I don't really feel like my weight hasn't really gone, like my weight hasn't really gone off that much. Okay, but you've been working out for so long that that's understandable. You know, you can't have those kind of beginner gains forever, but at the very least, you don't feel weaker in your workouts, like significantly. No. Okay, look, let me tell you a story. Okay, Brittany, I've told this before in the podcast, but I remember, this is like the first time I learned just how specific strength is, or at least the first time it was revealed to me. I was, I don't know, I think I was 16 or 17 years old and my grandfather from Sicily was visiting our family. So my grandfather at the time was in his, either his late 60s or 70s, and he's been working manual labor, I mean his whole life, poor Sicilian, right? And he came and my dad, at the time, owned a construction company. And so it was the summer, and I would go with my dad to help him, and my grandfather was no way in hell was he gonna stay at home while we all went. So he went to go help us, okay? And we were mixing cement, and I'll never forget my, I don't know, 70-year-old grandfather just smoking me. Now, consider I had been working out by this point for like three years in the gym, I'm a teenager, full of energy, and my 70-something-year-old grandfather literally was crushing me with carrying buckets of sand and mixing cement. And, you know, I couldn't believe it. I told my dad, and I was like, this is crazy. And he goes, well, you know, this is the stuff your grandfather's been doing forever. So he's good at it, he's got technique, he understands how to move these things. So there's a lot of skill that's involved with strength as well. So if somebody, for example, moves furniture a lot, they're gonna be better at moving furniture than someone who lifts weights at a lot, a lot typically. So that's another thing to consider. But ultimately, you can't compare yourself to other people. You have to, it's not fair. You have to just compare yourself to yourself. And if you're strong still in your workouts, you're not seeing a decline in strength, especially as you enter into your 40s. I mean, you're doing pretty good. So now, do you have maps strong? You said you had performance, do you have maps strong? We'll send that to you, Brittany. So you'll have access to that and you'll be able to do something different. It's a great program, different from the other ones. And it's a great strength building program, especially for like kind of odd functional lifts. Great. Awesome. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, that's a fun one. I mean, how many times have you guys felt that? Or you're like, I'm the gym guy and then you go do something with someone, you're like, oh, what's going on? Yeah, you just get humbled immediately. She did say something that I want to address because actually last night, Katrina and I were just having a conversation about her training routine right now. And we're getting ready to go to Mexico in a few weeks and she's asking me like, let's ramp it up. Like what should I start doing? And even after all these years we've been together, her listening to every single Mind Pump episode, she still has the, should I start cutting my calories and start picking up the movement in cardio yet? And I asked and she's been consistently going since January, like consistently four times to five times a week she's been lifting and she's following our programs. And you guys eat healthy. Yeah, right. So that's all she's on. And she's in pretty good shape. She's just one in the next level, right? And I said, well, before you sort of cut calories, when was the last time that you really ramped up your intensity and your lifting? She goes, well, what do you mean? Yeah. And I said, well, I've watched you lift and you're training, but I see you lifting weights. Not pushing yourself. That's right. You're lifting weights that are lighter than I've seen you lift before, which is good because we're coming off of you not really being consistent not that long ago. And so I think I advised you that way, just get back in the motion, start lifting again. But before I would start cutting calories, why don't you just really start to push the weight? And she's like, you know, you're right. I haven't, I've been just kind of, I mean, I'm training and I, you know, and I get a nice little pump and like a little bit of a sweat, but I'm not, my training intensity hasn't really increased this whole times I've been trained January. So she said something that, you know, I didn't get a chance to ask her to go a little bit deeper, but sometimes this happens and it happens. It's more common with my female client, it's more common seeing it with my wife is, you know, you can get in this like routine of like following a program like ours and just moving the same weights. Well, especially when you're working out at home. That's right. And this is, I had the same conversation, you know, with Courtney's wall. And it was just one of those things where when you get into the groove and you're like, man, I'm so consistent, but you start like gravitating towards that same weight. So you see what's the, you know, itemized for your workout for the day and then you just grab the weights you always grab. That's right. And it just becomes sort of like this routine instead of really pushing yourself outside of that progressively overloading, which then, you know, pushes for that change in your physique, that change in your strength. So yeah, sometimes you really do need that nudge to move forward. The exact device I said to Katrina was before we cut calories. So what I want you to do, because I haven't seen you do this, track your protein. I know you've been eating good, but have you made sure consistently you're hitting your protein and take every single day and I want you to push the weight. Give me that for the next two weeks and then I'll adjust. And watch what happens. And then watch what happens and then I'll adjust from there. And the truth is, more often than not, when you've been working out for years and years and years, it's good to train in a consistent way where you don't beat yourself up, but interjecting these two, three, four week periods of higher intensity and push it. I mean, that's how you get your body to continue. Well, especially when you were leveling off. Yes, you need that. Especially when you're wanting to see progress. And she came to me and said, am I doing a good job, hun? I said, yeah, you're doing great. We're eating healthy, we're making good choice. We still have some flexibility. We had pizza the other night. Like when you're training four or five days a week, you're moving good weight. But if you tell me, hey, I got Mexico in three weeks and I'm wanting to make moves. I want to see change. I want to bring a great bikini body. I want to take the next level. Well, okay, well, and before I go, hey, cut your calories, hey, pick up cardio or something like that. Cause I know you care about the muscle that we've built. Let's push the intensity and lifting. Let's try and get a little stronger right now. Make sure you hit your protein intake. Let's put some weight on the bar a little bit or slow down tempo. There's other ways to progressively overload to Justin's point. So that's what we should do first before we just go straight to cutting. But again, at the end of the day, it really isn't fair to compare yourself against someone else because there's such a wide degree of everybody needs to hear that. I mean, I've seen it so many times myself and it's like, it's not fair for me to look at someone else but like, why is that person lifting so much to me? I've been working out for something. It's even nature though. It is. But it's a path to like, you just can end up hating things, right? Our next caller is Cameron from Washington. Cameron, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey, how's it going dudes? Thank you for taking my call. You got it. Yep. Yeah. So my question is every 22 year old's magic question. How do I build muscle for summer to look awesome and to look better than my friend who I'm in a competition with to look buffer? So yeah, and the email question I had is essentially three months to put on as much lean mass as possible. And my, essentially what I want to know is what do I need to know nutritionally and programming? So right now I'm in MAPS anabolic just got done with phase one. Today's actually the beginning of phase two. I'm also running the no BS six pack formula alongside it. So by the time I'm done with anabolic I'll have six more weeks to follow up with another program. So what would you guys suggest? We're going to sabotage your friend. I was just going to say there's two ways to do this. We can play dirty. You can look better or you can make him look worse either way. Are you looking just for mass or do you want lean muscle? Oh, lean muscle, preferably lean, lean muscle. Don't want to get super ballooning, you know? Getting shredded is going to make you look that way. That's, I mean, that's always, yeah. So to me, the focus I would be on right now because it's a small amount of time. I mean, maybe for a month I put you on like a short bulk and then the following two months we cut. So, but where's your body fat percentage? Any idea right now? So we both tested our body fat percentages using the new US Navy method which is waste and next circumference and it puts us both at like 20-ish percent body fat which not the most accurate in the world, I know. Okay, so do you have a, so 20% for a guy, you basically, you don't have any abs. You got kind of a little bit of a belly. Is that accurate? Because that body fat test sounds kind of interesting. Yeah, I got a little bit of flab in the stomach area but like my back and arms are lean. Well, Adam's on point then. If you got lean in a three month period the most dramatic change in how you appear is gonna be getting lean. So I would do, MAPs on the ball is perfect. Do the three foundational workouts. Make sure you do the trigger sessions on the off days. Hit one gram of protein per pound of body weight and I would keep your calories just below maintenance. So whatever your maintenance calories are I'd bring it down maybe 200, 300 below that for the next three months. Hopefully the idea is you build some muscle and burn some body fat. I mean, three months is a long time. I would actually probably, so you said you have six, after you finish anabolic we'll have six weeks, right? Yes, sir. So I mean, I may finish anabolic in like a maintenance or even a little bit of a surplus sometimes and then actually do the cut for the last six weeks when you switch programs. So a more of aggressive cut for six weeks? Yeah, I mean you're gonna switch programs and then go to a cut and then run that for six weeks because he's 185. I don't think he's the body fat person. I mean, if he was really overweight then I would say run him through a cut for that long but I think you could probably run anabolic, keep your calories at a healthy place, not trying to cut yet. And then when you switch to the next program which either performance or aesthetic would be fine post that program, that's when I would transition into your cut and then I would run your cut for six weeks. Are you doing any cardio right now? No, sir, I work construction. So I get more than enough steps in a day cardio wise. Oh, good. Well, then what I would do is just the final two weeks is I would start to get some cardio in there. Wait a minute, hold on a second. Do you know how many calories you're eating every day? Are you tracking? Yes, I'm doing that unfortunate thing where you're good tracking five days out of the week and then the weekends. I feel a little off. Yeah, that's why I figured, tie that up. Yeah, so okay, so if you're in a 500 calorie deficit Monday through Friday and then you do what a lot of people do on the weekend and you go, oh, I just ate a little more or whatever, you'll erase it easily, very easily. In fact, some people actually go and end up in a surplus because of Saturday and Sunday. So you need to track every single day and that right there alone, just the weekends, is gonna tighten everything up. And honestly, that may be just you following maps to a T, committing to yourself, I'm gonna track on the weekends and stay consistent on the weekends too. And then transitioning to another program after that, following that all the way, you should lean out. That, I mean, that's it right there. I mean, you should. And I'm assuming if you don't track on those two days, are you still allowing yourself like a drinking night or a pizza and beer? I mean, is that happening right now? You're 22, I wouldn't be surprised if you are. Yeah, you got it. Okay, bro. If you wanna win this competition, you wanna look better than your buddy. You gotta be the one who's willing to sacrifice that shit right now on me. I mean, that right there in itself. If you just literally, I mean, we don't even gotta get crazy here. We don't gotta get all technical and... No, that's it right there. Yeah, just tighten up the weekends and be the one who's willing to sacrifice that for the next couple of months. And that in itself, you will lean out and build muscle. Feed yourself, hit your protein intake, stay on top of your diet on the weekend, cut out all the garbage that you know that you don't need to be doing already. And you will, you'll lean out, bro. Are you, is there money on the line? Did you guys bet something? Just our pride. Okay, well that's... That's worth more money anyways. Yeah, that's a lot right there. Gonna make them wear a chicken suit or something. Yeah, that's a big deal. No, hey, listen, camera, I'm telling you right now, I've worked with so many people, right? The weekend, people think, ah, five days during the week, I'm perfect. Saturday and Sunday, I'm kinda off. It's not that big a deal. When I have them tracked, they end up in a surplus the end of the week. That's how big of a difference. Yeah, real quick. Yeah, don't try to like eyeball it. You'd be surprised just how far. Just tracking the weekend, I bet you that alone is gonna make all the difference in the world. Have you heard me talk about, and I don't know if you do this too, do you also, if you take a day off of lifting, is it also on the weekend too? No, I always lift, I have more time to lift on the weekends anyways, so. Okay, good. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, just tighten the diet up on the weekend, bro. Okay, track it, just be more consistent than he will. You'll beat him just from that. Just following the programming and then running right into another program afterwards. And stay tuned. Go ahead. I have a question pertaining to the next program. Would you guys suggest, I know typically you go performance after anabolic, just that different stimulus, do you think? Cause aesthetic is, it means it's in the name, it's more aesthetic focus, but performance because it's such a different stimulus than anabolic, would that still just like keep the muscle in like, that's alongside doing the cardio like you said. Considering the work that you do, I think you'll get better results of performance. I think going from anabolic to aesthetic with construction, you might actually be doing too much volume, to be honest with you. So go with performance, I think you'll get better results. Yes, sir. You got it, man. Thanks for calling in. Of course. Good luck, man. Real quick, just want to say real quick, if you don't mind the obligatory, you guys are awesome type of thing. Yeah, I really appreciate everything you guys do out there, Sal, Sal, you talk about how you're thankful for the power lifters you met when you were a little kid. I feel the same way when I was introduced to you guys, to your guys' podcast. I've been very thankful for everything you guys do. Appreciate it, Cameron. If you don't have performance, I've got to say this by the way, if you don't have performance, we're going to send that to you, okay? Oh, I got it. I got it. Appreciate it. All right, brother, thank you. Thank you so much. You got it. Yeah, people don't realize, I would literally have clients do this all the time. And then we would, I mean, think about 500 calorie deficit, which is a, that's a standard deficit for body fat loss, right? Five days a week, you end up with 2,500 calorie deficit. Saturday and Sunday, people are like, I go off a little bit and I don't have them track. And we would end up with like a thousand extra at the end of the week. You know, it's so, it adds up and estimating it's impossible. This was me. This was me all through my 20s as a trainer. And I remember as a trainer. As a fitness expert. Yeah, and I actually remember, this is how naive I was as a trainer even. I actually believed at that point in my career that the only thing that separated me, this is actually what drove me to antibiotics. I believe that the only thing that separated me from the guys that were shredded on the magazines where they were running antibiotics and I wasn't. I was, my training and diet was so dialed Monday through Friday. And in my head, I really didn't fuck off that much on the weekends that it couldn't be that. It had to be these guys are on antibiotics. And that was what drove me to first messing with antibiotics. And I learned the hard way that it wasn't that because I didn't get great results just by taking antibiotics. It wasn't until the body bug. And I had to wear that. And I started actually tracking my food. So eye-opening. And it blew my mind. Now he says he works out on Saturdays and Sundays. What I found out about myself was, if I worked as a trainer, so many times I was up at 435 o'clock in the morning during the week. Saturday and Sunday, I slept in until nine or 10 in the morning. And then that's also the day that I would kind of, I'll get around. I finally ate at like 10 or 11. Watch football or whatever. Watch football, watch basketball. Maybe I'll have some pizza. You like it? Yeah. And in my head I was, I was not, and I didn't think I was going that over, but what I didn't realize was Monday through Friday, I was burning like 5,000 calories because how much I was moving on Saturday and Sunday I was burning like 2,020. And eating more. And eating more. So it was like way flipped. And just simply make, and that was what, and I've given this advice on the podcast before. All of a sudden I said, okay, because I already automatically have good Monday through Friday and I've dialed that in for so long, I'm now going to just focus on Saturday and Sunday. Saturday and Sunday are now going to be, I made a goal for myself that these are going to be my perfect days now. And I didn't say to myself, I can never have pizza again. I can't have a beer with my friends again. I didn't say that. I said, I'm just going to make Saturday and Sunday my most perfect days. I'm going to get up. I'm going to exercise in those days. I'm not going to take the days off. I'm going to make those the most dialed days nutritionally. And then if I want those other things during the week I'll have it, but you know what happened, right? You don't end up doing those things. It cleaned up everything. Yeah, plus construction. I mean, this is my experience. They just tend to have, I mean, like what are they called? Door, car dash burritos. And, you know, you take the frozen burrito you put on the car dash and it's cooked and everything. I mean, just some of the worst diets that I've ever worked with where people in- Or you get the Roach Coach, you know, that comes by and you just order nasty food. Yeah, and they get away with it to some extent, right, but just not the best diets. Our next caller is Vincent from Utah. What's up Vincent? How can we help you? Hey, what's happening Vincent? Hey, how's it going guys? So yeah, so I've been listening to Mind Pump for probably over a year. I gotta say Mind Pump has single-handedly helped me realize my passion for personal training. If it wasn't for you guys, I wouldn't be doing this. I wouldn't be training right now. So thanks so much. Even though I started working a few weeks ago at a big box gym, all the content you guys have put out has made me feel like I have years of experience. So thank you so much. Excellent, cool. So trying to start working with the client who has that gastric bypass surgery and has lost a lot of weight, but they wanna still lose another 30 to 40 pounds. She says that she's way more active now than before the surgery. She's like walking every day and she's been doing some light weight training, but she says she wants to have your weight training and she wants to lose the extra weight. So for a fat loss client, I would based on what you guys have taught, I would probably boost the metabolism slowly, increase calories, but she can only eat 1,000 calories a day. So I'm just kind of wondering how would we approach this in a more sustainable way? Is it even possible to boost the metabolism in this kind of a situation? Yeah, it's possible, but it's harder. We all have a lot of experience with this because we all managed to gym. Right across the street. Yeah, across the street from a facility that would do this. So I'd get clients and Adam and Justin too, we'd get clients that had this procedure. It's more challenging. So she's gonna have more challenge absorbing nutrients. So she's probably already supplementing quite a bit. And obviously the procedure is effective and the reason why it's effective at weight losses it makes it hard to eat. So my best advice for you is to take it slow. Focus on getting her stronger for now. Sometimes what that does is that increases the appetite enough to where the person can kind of eat a little more. And really she's gonna have to focus on eating throughout the day, very small meals throughout the day. So increasing calories might be less of eating bigger meals and more of adding more liquid calories sometimes like protein shakes, meal replacement shakes or just adding snacks. I hate to do this. I don't recommend this to most people but in this situation it's a bit unique adding small additional calories in between the meals that she's currently doing. Especially protein focus because one of the things that I would notice with these clients is after they do the surgery now they can only eat 1,000 but a lot of times they still have the bad eating habits. So they still- It's the same food just less. Yeah, just way less. So they're still not making good nutrient dense choices and they're not targeting protein like this. So the same advice I'm giving to this client is I'm giving to my average client who I'm trying to boost her metabolism and get them to focus on eating protein and stuff because they still gravitate towards the same type of foods they just only eat 1,000 calories worth and they lose weight. So then it gets justified in their head that it's okay for them to eat that way. So a lot of the conversations I'd be having around is like what are our 1,000 calories? Where are we getting our 1,000 calories? And then trying to push her in that direction of, it's a her, right? Do you see, I don't know if you made that clear. Yeah, so I would push her in the direction of making sure that they're protein focused meals and we may have to do what Sal is saying which is the shakes and bar route because they're lower calories and they're easier for them to consume. Easier than I just. Yeah, that was the first thing I would do is I had, when I would work with people like this is I would have them just add, we would start with adding a 30 gram protein shake. You know, whey protein usually, if they can tolerate dairy well, it's thin, it's easy to digest. You can mix it in minimal water even so it's like not a lot of volume. And I would have them either sip on that for over the course of an hour because sometimes even that is too much especially right after the procedure or just drink it after the workout. And then we would start with that. Like let's just add 30 grams of protein and whey protein and keep eating what you're eating. What Adam said though is ultimately what you want to focus on. I can't, I mean, literally I would see, I would have these clients, they would eat less but I would see what they were eating and it was like. It's all processed carbs. Yeah, like a breakfast sandwich from McDonald's or a baggage, it was like the same stuff. Exactly. Yeah, or even candy and stuff. It was just, their stomach had shrunk so much that they just couldn't physically eat or binge it. And so they would lose weight and because they were losing weight, they would go, oh, I'm okay, I'm eating all right and I'm taking all the supplements the doctor's giving me. It's like a hall pass. Yeah, and then I'd go in and look and I'm like, Jesus, we're only having like 10 grams of protein a day. Like we've got to get more protein than this on your diet. So yeah, I think Sal's place of starting with the whey shake with water is such a good place. And if they can't take whey, then doing like an organify type of shake, right? Yeah, that's the plant protein that organifies the best one for that. Yeah, so go that route. And yeah, you're not going to be able to, you're not going to take this client from 1,000 calories to 3,000 calories, right? But you can slowly increase that and more importantly, make better choices and then continuing to follow one of the programs and sending that signal to build muscle. Yeah, but really focus on getting her stronger, you know, with the basic movements, that's where she's going to see the best results. Right, strength. So if we have time, I have one last question for another client with another medical condition. Okay. All right, so I just acquired a new client who has PCOS, are you guys familiar with that? Yes. So obviously she is actually very strong. She's actually power lifted in the past, but her issue obviously affects her hormones and because we know that they regulate pretty much everything in the body, fat loss, muscle gain, what would be the best approach for someone with PCOS if their goal is fat loss? All right, this is general. Okay, I'm going to give you, because it could be very different from person to person. Also, we're not doctors. I do have some experience working with polycystic ovarian syndrome and a lot of it, oftentimes I respond very well from eliminating or reducing dramatically the sugar intake and or carbohydrate. I wouldn't go keto, but oftentimes reducing or eliminating sugar and bringing carbohydrates down seems to work better. This isn't true for everybody though. So what I'm going to recommend is that you find them a good functional medicine practitioner. One of my favorite, Dr. Becky Campbell is really good. She's got a great podcast called Health Babes. You can refer this client to that podcast, really good. We also have a wellness or holistic forum now that's free. And what's the name of it on Facebook, Doug? I'd always forget. MP Holistic Health. MP Holistic Health. Have them, it's free. So anybody can go on and we're keeping it free for now. Have them go on there every week or I believe every week or is it twice a month? Twice a month the doctor goes on there, does live questions that they're answering in the audience and then every day the staff is on there actually answering people that are messaging inside there. It's super valuable research for you. So that's where I actually haven't had a client with this. So I would have deferred out. I would have deferred out to probably Stephen Cabral and the forum that we have, which this is part of the reason why we've partnered up with him is to help clients like this because this is even above my pay grade. Yeah, but again, I do have some experience and usually it was like cutting sugar, reducing some carbohydrates from a dietary standpoint and we would see some pretty good results. But this is a situation where you want some individual attention. So, and as a trainer, Vince, I'm gonna tell you this and I've said this to many trainers, one of the most valuable things you can do is have a trusted network of practitioners that are experts in areas that you're not that you can send people to. What you don't wanna try and do is be the guy who has all the answers because you're not gonna have all the answers. So it'd be, you know, my advice to you is find a good functional medicine practitioner you develop a relationship to that you can refer to, have a good correctional exercise specialist, have a good hormone specialist. That way when you run into these situations, you could say, oh, I got the right person for you and I work with them and then we'll work together to help solve this for you. And it just makes you so valuable. You got all that with us. That's part of why we built that. It's for to support our trainers and our community. So make sure you, if you're not in also the hormone one, you should be. So those are two free forums. And as a trainer, it's just a wealth of knowledge for absolutely free for you. Yeah, I'm actually in the private forum too. Oh, perfect. There you go. Yeah, awesome. I actually have a lot of your programs. Prime and of all like performance, aesthetic split, kettlebells for aesthetic. So yeah, I feel like I'm like I said, I'm only three weeks in, but I feel like I'm set for the next decade or two. All right, man. Well, good. Yeah, good. Keep doing it. Yep. Appreciate your call. Thank you so much. You got it. You know what's funny is that I hear so many, I've had so many people message me and say that they became trainers because of us. And we usually tell people it's the hardest, not a place to make a lot of money. I don't know. It's super hard. So we must. That's great though. I mean, it just shows that there's a lot of people out there that are passionate about helping others. That's what it is. Regardless. And I think they hear our passion. I think we make it clear that there's not a lot of money. You can make a living, right? But I mean, this is just another example of highlighting the resources that we have out there for everybody. I mean, that's what we're trying to do because we're not functional medicine practitioners. And we can, I can give you, you know, what I've seen in some of my clients, but I'm not Dr. Stephen Cabral. I'm not Dr. Becky Campbell. I'm not all these people. Tests, you can refer them to and just get that kind of like real like, man, we're not gonna try, not subjective, but objective. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Because it can be different from, I mean, usually, you know, it's like, oh, testosterone is too high on this woman and sugar affects them a particular way. But it's not always that way. So. Our next caller is Gabriel from Kentucky. Gabriel, what's happening, man? How can we help you? Hey, how are you guys doing? Good, great. That's good. So I wanted to know how I could optimize my total testosterone. I'm 19 years old and I recently got some lab tests and my total came out to 323 nanograms per deciliter and my percentage of free testosterone was 2.8. And about a week ago, I retook the test and I retook the lab and my testosterone went up 26 points and my free testosterone has almost doubled in a way. It's 2.34. Okay. All right. So you're 19 years old. So I'm gonna cover the common offenders for people your age with who have, who are experiencing lower testosterone. Okay. So number one. Way too much masturbation. That increases testosterone. No, no, no. You're busted. You're busted. Let's not go there yet. Let's not go there yet. So a few different things. Number one, good consistent sleep every night. Not just most nights, but consistent every night. Nothing will crash testosterone like poor sleep. So you wanna aim for eight hours, but not just eight hours in bed, quality sleep. So an hour or two before, turn off your electronics. That's the ideal thing or wear blue light blocking glasses. Be consistent with that. Very consistent. Okay. So that's number one. Number two, get sunlight every single day. So don't stay in, you know, on your computer or in your room. Try to get an hour of sunlight every single day. Number three, lift weights. But don't lift weights too often. I see in your question here that you train five to six days a week and you're doing three times a week of cardio. Do, listen, three days a week full body. That's it. Map-Centabolic. Map-Centabolic. Three days a week full body. How tall are you and what's your body weight? I am five, 11, and I weigh like 205 pounds. Okay. A little bit of cardio is fine. I don't care. That's perfectly fine, but lift weights, three days a week, Map-Centabolic, just do that. Keep your protein intake high. Don't get your fat intake too low and just eat a general healthy diet. Those things alone tend to make a tremendous difference with testosterone levels, especially for young men your age. There's a lot of guys your age. You stay indoors too much. You're watching a lot of, you know, you're under electronics quite a bit. Sleep is terrible. And that's where you tend to see the issues. So do that for two or three months and then see what happens with your testosterone levels. In my experience, I've worked with kids your age and we've done stuff like this and we've seen them double their testosterone levels, okay? If you indeed do have hormone issues, you'll know after three months of doing that consistent. And then at that case, I would refer you to a specialist, but not until you do those things. What you don't want to do is go see a specialist if you're not doing those things because it's really only reflecting your lifestyle. And I see you're already taking vitamin D and zinc and ashwagandha already. There's not much to add to what Sal's saying. I think before you go out and spend any money on something crazy or buy any like testosterone booster type bullshit supplements, check all the boxes that he's saying. I think the big one that jumps out to me is the training five, six days a week. I mean, training maps in a bulk, which we'll send, if you don't have maps in a bulk, we'll send that over to you. Do you have that by chance or no? I do not have that. Okay, so we'll send that to you. Follow maps in a bulk, and I think that a lot. And do you track actually your macros at all right now? Yes. I have 180 grams of protein. 990 grams of fat, and I'm rocking like 200 grams of carbs. Okay, that's good balance. Yeah, that's not bad at all. So keep doing that. Look at the sleep, look at the sunlight and watch the training. Overtraining is also- Generally, that's what I noticed from, you know, clients that have been in your age range is just the recovery isn't really a thought. So it's always more is better. And if you even like just pull back a bit do your three times a week of hard lifting and then allow your body to recover, rest, get good sleep, get good sunlight. You know, a lot of this stuff will kind of turn around. And along the lines back on the sleep talk, like is one of the things I remember when I'm your age, what I was really bad about was being consistent like with the time that I went to bed. Like it was so, I could easily have one night where I would still get six, eight hours, but I'd have one night where I went to bed at midnight, another night where I went to bed at 10, another night I might stay up till one. You're making yourself jet lagged every other day. Yeah, so even though I might be getting six to eight, the six to eight wasn't very quality because my body wasn't, it wasn't on this clock. It was completely being disrupted all the time. It didn't know when I was supposed to be resting. And even though you might be getting the total time, the quality of the sleep might be hurting based off of how inconsistent you might be with the times that you go to bed and you wake up that simply dialing that in can make a big difference. Also, if you, yeah, if you take pre-workout, you take a lot of caffeine, you got to consider all that with like, you know, the timing of that and how much that may be impeding on your actual sleep and the quality of it. Yeah, at your age, typically the body's very responsive to these types of things. And if I'm talking to a 45 year old, it's, I mean, we can typically raise testosterone, but I'm usually looking at like a, you know, if I really crush it, 40% increase into testosterone, but at your age, you have a tendency to be more responsive. So give that a chance. And then after being consistent, don't judge it until you're consistent with those things for a few months. And then after that, if it's still, you know, if it goes up to 400, barely moves up, then I would go talk to a specialist. Now you said you already doubled your free testosterone. Was that just from taking supplements and paying a little attention to those things? What I did was I actually, to my free testosterone instead of going six, I started going five days and I kind of held back on some of the cardio, but I trained more, when I did go to gym, it was more intense. Yeah, I, MAPS Centabolic, dude, that's the program you got to follow. It'll make a big difference. To be honest with you, MAPS Centabolic has two options. There's one option that's two foundational workouts a week and one option that's three foundational workouts a week. I bet you just from where you're at now, if you went all the way back down to two, because you might be already over-trained, that might even be the best option. Seems counterintuitive, but watch how your body responds. Yeah, if you get stronger, if you see yourself getting stronger, you're on the right track. Got it. All right, man. Thanks for calling in, buddy. All right, thank you very much, guys. You got it. All right, man. Yeah, that's a very common one. It's the over-training. And that'll, you know, testosterone's so responsive. Well, especially if he already saw that, just by backing off cardio right away, he had a response. Exactly. It's so funny, like the body trying to tell him. Yeah, it's like, knock, knock, knock. Yeah, you're on the right path. Keep going that direction. Yeah. Two's really, I mean, I don't know. I think he's going down to three. He went from six to five. If he goes from five down to three, I think he's gonna notice a huge difference. You know what though? I've trained a lot of, at one point I had a lot of, like kind of teenage clients that were in that, like, oh, it's hard for me to gain muscle. And it's like, I would do two, and I'd train a lot of clients two days a week. It just worked out that way. And if they did an extra day, they would do it on their own. But I'd train, and I'd see like these really good, consistent strength gains very consistently. Shit, I'd train Doug that way for a year. Well, so I agree, like kids like me or hard-gainers like Doug, right? Or people that think they're hard-gainers like us, that was the answer for me. He sounds like he's trying to lean out, right? So he's a little over 200 pounds. Yeah, because his testosterone though is getting hammered. That's where I'm a little careful. Yeah, no. We can always add. I mean, what I would rather see is cut out all the cardio and go three times a week of training. That's another option. I mean, instead of going down to two days of lifting and then still letting him do the cardio, I'd rather say, hey, let's lift three days a week and drop your cardio completely or switch your cardio to just walking. That's what I mean, because I think that three days of lifting isn't going to be that bad on him. Based off what he's eating calorie-wise, his macros, he's supplementing, he says he's getting rest, like, I don't know, I think they're going down to three. Yeah, but I'll tell you something, dude. You have a 19-year-old that tells you, yeah, I'm getting good sleep. I mean, I know. Well, that's why I think we all picked up on that. That's why everybody kept fucking circling the ropes. I thought I had good sleep. You know what it was, is I could get away with crappy sleep. Like looking back, I did not. Well, that's why I brought up the different, because I thought I got good sleep too, because I got six to eight always, but what I realized now is like how I can, like I said, one night I go to bed at two in the morning, another night I go to bed at 10, like, you know what I'm saying? Plus the attitude, right? I was like, I'll sleep when I'm dead. Yeah, and I was mucking out on video games for the last three hours of the night, you know what I'm saying? You can't think, I was so stimulated trying to go to bed. Like, so yeah, there's a lot of things like that. And you think as a kid you're doing fine, because you feel okay. Totally. Look, if you like the show, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find us all on social media. Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump. Justin Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump. Adam, and you can find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal.