 Hi everyone, I'm Emily Ramshaw. I'm the editor-in-chief of the Texas Tribune, and I'm a future forum board member And thank you so much for joining us for this this evening for this very important conversation On the real-world implications of Texas's immigration enforcement and anti sanctuary city's legislation Before we begin I'd like to thank you for being a future forum member And this is a trick question if you're not already a future forum member It is our 15th year providing these types of programming and services for the city of Austin and the state If you're not a member yet, you can sign up at our registration table or do it online There'll be an opportunity after this evening's programming I'd like to introduce our esteemed panelists starting with the Texas Tribune's phenomenal border bureau chief Julianne Aguilar Who will be moderating this evening's discussion? Julianne's been with the Tribune almost since its inception Previously he reported for both the Laredo morning times and the Rio Grande Guardian Julianne is joined by Lupe Valdez the former Dallas County sheriff who's currently running for Texas governor as a Democrat Valdez who is the first Latina sheriff in Dallas County can Yes, sure can speak to the ramifications inside the criminal justice system of this legislation until last year Jesus Garza was the CEO of the Seton health care family and Previously served for eight years as a city manager of the city of Austin He also served as the CEO of Bracken Ridge Hospital and has been crucial to helping Seton and UT create the Dell Medical School Stan Paz is the executive director of the Texas Association of Latino administrators and superintendents He previously served as the school superintendent in El Paso and in Tucson and was the first Hispanic president of the Texas Association of school administrators and last but not least Montserrat Garibay is the Secretary Treasurer for the Texas AFL CIO which advocates for and represents Texas workers She is a former bilingual pre-k teacher for AISD and previously was vice president with Education Austin the union rep that represents more than 3,000 AISD employees Thank you to all of you for joining us and Julianne you can take it from here Thank you Emily and thank you Everybody else for being here, especially the LBJ school like Emily said, this is probably a Senate Bill 4 and immigration enforcement is probably one of the most contentious if not I guess the most mysterious currently because we're still sort of waiting to see exactly what's going to happen with Senate Bill 4 just to summarize What where we are right now in the process and what's I guess been allowed to stand and what hasn't so Senate Bill 4 was signed by The governor in May he did it during a Facebook live Was criticized heavily for that because usually governors they do their bill signings with you know lawmakers from from both Sides of the aisle sometimes or at least both chambers by their side But I think that sort of speaks to the issue of how helpful sort of volatile this was but even after he signed it There were protests at the governor's mansion that Sunday night But the bill as signed was Referred to as an omnibus immigration bill because there were so many components to it and it would have punished sheriffs and other Police officers constables police chiefs that for not honoring ice detainers Which are commonly referred to as the mechanisms by which immigration and customs enforcement asks jails or sheriffs or constables Or what have you to hold the person in their custody for at least 48 hours for possible referral to immigration's Officials for possible deportation it would have punished I think up to $25,000 a day for officials that violated that policy did not honor all the ice detainers And it's it's been reported that it requires police officers to ask status that's not what the bill does what it does is it prevents Supervisors of law enforcement officers from saying no you cannot inquire into a person's status. So Currently Texas law an officer can ask your status if you get Pulled over a detained lawful detention can mean anything from you know being questioned if you witness a crime or to Speeding in a in a school zone What happened subsequent to that is judge Orlando Garcia u.s. District Judge San Antonio. He put a lot of these provisions on hold With an injunction specifically the the thorniest issue was the ice detainers that he said you know this you can't comply with everything There's other mechanisms right now There's other litigation that it questions the constitutionality of ice detainers that went to the fifth circuit the first the fifth circuit Let that stand but the way they wrote there the first judge three judge panel the fifth circuit the way they wrote their opinion said that you Ice detainers needed to be honored, but under current Guidelines and current practices which a lot of people thought to assume that that's what was going on anyway And now we're back at the fifth circuit when a separate three judge panel is going to eventually decide on the entire injunction and it's the hearing was on November 7th And I'm sure a lot of stakeholders and law enforcement officers and journalists are refreshing the fifth circuit site every half an hour To see if there's an opinion coming down the way that fifth circuit works It'll probably come down in 10 minutes while we're having this discussion But let's hope that that does not happen so I want I want to start with that because in 2011 sanctuary cities legislation if you look at the bill the word detainer was not even in the language of the bill it was Sort of styled as an Arizona copycat bill That pretty much allowed police officers to question anybody that they detain That part actually is not in join that that is that is law today And that was I think the big the bogeyman or the kakui is we're more familiar with it as Here in Texas, so I guess I want to start off since this is about the impact of sp4 Are y'all seeing that I mean because there was a lot of fear about cops, you know pulling people over for The common phrase was driving while brown and is I want to I want to ask y'all if you see that is happening I mean our is a PD going up to to Rundberg or Dallas PD are they going to to heavily Latino districts in those cities and are they targeting brown people or is this something that People were scared of and it's not actually happening. I don't I don't know who wants to speak to that But if anybody has any knowledge, you know anecdotal or statistics, I'd be really curious to see what the on the ground enforcement of the papers, please provision is And of course you turn to me because I'm the law enforcement person and of course you should you should turn to me Well, let's before to begin with it is terrible. It shouldn't have never happened At least half a dozen time more than half a dozen times I went before the legislature to testify against us along with the major county shers and the major city chiefs All of us had the same idea This is not or are the same train of thought and this is not good for our community And and I I believe that the majority of law enforcement There is good law enforcement and bad law enforcement the majority of the law enforcement will follow the direction of the leader and And it was very clear in my department. This is not what we're here for Would people do it anyway? I Don't know I suspect they would But it was very clear what the thought of the leadership is. I mean even the governor Brags about sending me a nasty gram. Pardon me a letter sending me a letter That that said I need to comply Because my thought has always been this is not right now, you know, if it's if there's certain laws that that are there as As as a law enforcement person, I have to obey that now what we can do we certainly did And and and that was constantly Bring out the thought that this is not what we're here for now He turned around and said if you even mention this, you know We're gonna find you right because he knew that there were several of us Majors major county shares that would say to our team, you know This is not why we're here and that that was that was the part of the the provision in the bill that said, you know That you cannot endorse anything that materially limits or or sort of gives the idea that you're I couldn't say anything bad about the bill and that's that's part of that's part of what the three-judge panel said Hey, you know, this is too vague come back with us But and you're absolutely right you and the police chiefs of San Antonio pass so those populations They they did testify against the bill but be that as it may it ended up passing So now that it's in law our cops profiling people pulling people over for driving while brown You were still a sheriff after as people went into effect. So what did you see in your department? I think the law enforcement will do what they did before if they were in If they lean towards stop toward asking about it I made it very clear when I was there. I'm no longer there that that's not the only reason you stop them for right If they committed another crime or something something caused the tension that they need to up it just to look at then You can stop the person But I think it's just like it was before if they have a tendency to do that Then they would if they didn't then they're not going to but the additional force that we put on it Was I don't want you to spend all your time Waiting for ice to come. We have other priorities so unless you have nothing else to do and You know, that's that's here or there, you know, they they could say they didn't and of course if they said that I would say I've got plenty for you to do but But we couldn't say that we couldn't do that. So I think it's pretty much went Back to what it was before if you had a tendency to stop somebody for that for for For driving while brown because honestly I don't think even though he is Hispanic that somebody looks like him was gonna be stopped as much as somebody that looked like me Once I mean you even before your current role even in your current role now I mean you've been active in this, you know against this So what are you hearing from the immigrants that you work with from the advocacy groups? So I think it's very clear that the message that the governor sent really scared families As a teacher and when I was with education Austin as the vice president I had a lot of teachers parents support specialist counselors that would call and say during the summer for instance Families are not letting their children go to the pool or go play because they're scared And at the end of the day, you know, it happened people are scared. They don't want to come out They don't want to drive and they're really scared and I think At the end of the day, that's what he wanted to do and that's what he accomplished Unfortunately that that really hurts the families and hurts the community overall when you when you say that they're not going to the pool And I couldn't score these the these are the children of the earth Children and the parents well the parents make more sense because they're likely the ones that are out of status But the children even though they're you as citizens they're their parents are keeping them home is what you're saying Yeah, I mean and even I think for an undocumented immigrant for them to see Here the news and to see what's happening. They have they don't know like they don't have an idea of Okay, what questions can they ask me? What can I answer? And I think in our community here in Austin We were able to do a lot of know your rights trainings within with the schools with the community to let the people know This is what they can ask you and this is what you can answer And I think at the end of the day comes with Education it's a it's a P. It's a it's a key if you if people don't know the rights Then they're gonna be scared. They're gonna run away when they see a police officer because that's what Governor Abbott wanted at the end of the day I think I think I was going to follow up on one side at a point about the fear and Obviously every school district that we represent in our association Had to call a forum or some type of training because of the families and how they were in conflict Mr. Carranza who's the superintendent of Houston ISD in Harris County had a had his own forum And I congratulate you on having your forum because this is getting the word out It's educating the public more importantly what he did with it with his communities He expressed what the rights were and provided that training that information they put a Web page so that they would have access parents and families about what's going on because the fear was permeating what was happening in the classroom and for example, he told the story at one of his Forums that a fourth grader Went to his neighbor and borrowed a shovel and they asked the neighbor said why do you need the shovel he says because If my parents get picked up and they don't come home We have to dig a hole in the in the backyard so we can put money there So we have bus fare they have backup plans for what happens to the family when the parents get picked up And then they don't come back home I mean it it permeates everything that they do and it's completely taken fear and The last thing on their mind right now is what they're going to do to improve their education Because right now their basic survival skills and how do I make it when my parents may be picked up and not be able to Come home and nobody's at home when I get home from school So every school district major school district Dallas County I've got to commend Dallas County as well because when you look at Dallas County, they've done the same thing They've passed a resolution with the school board and in there, of course They talk about immigration enforcement based on what the law provides So everything is within the guidelines of what the laws are but you've got to know your rights And when you run away from a police officer as a young person, that's not the thing to do Mr. That's what he's saying from your perspective Well from from my perspective a couple a couple things one is I think the fear that that exists in this community Isn't isn't by and large by it as a result of law enforcement. It's about the rhetoric and the noise that's been made about this specific piece of legislation and And I guess the crowing about it once it gets adopted It created a whole host of fear with people and I think then what's manifested so it's not really law enforcement necessarily In fact, if law enforcement has an ethic that they want to connect with the community It would be the antithesis would to be to be a being bring the big hammer out with respect to the Latino community with respect to health care what you're having is The individuals are accessing it a lot less. There's a lot more missed appointments within our clinic systems both people's community clinic Edwin San Maritano and The the community care that's run by Travis County all of those are having missed appointments and well checks, etc And I think what's going to end up happening is those individuals that have chronic illnesses whether it's congestive heart failure or whether it's chronic obstructive pulmonary disease What they're going to have a major episode at some point and they'll end up in the emergency room And it won't be just a tuning up in the emergency room They'll probably be admitted and spend a great deal of resources So I think in the end it's going to cost our communities a lot of money in addition One of the point I'd make is that the WIC program there was an analysis done by the city of Austin one of the people that Did a one of the briefs that to try to bring a halt to this legislation that Families are not accessing the WIC program With the frequency that they used to there is 20,000 Estimated 20,000 infants that aren't getting proper nutrition There's an estimated 43,000 children that aren't getting proper nutrition and not and all close to 9,000 Pregnant moms that aren't getting the proper care and nutrition all of those things will manifest themselves at some point in those Individuals lives and I think that that's really the the tragedy of A piece of legislation like this It's the tragedy the kind of noise that's been made Because what it puts is a lot of fear into that community that really is quite unwarranted for part part of the supporters of the bill said there is a provision and they mentioned the fact that Hospital districts were excluded from from the SP4's purview, which you know there are security guards and police officers, but they could not sort of Enforce SP4 did you and did y'all do any outreach and is that is that a moot point because people want to believe what they Want to believe or well in terms of the the the health systems here I would be very surprised if anyone asks about status when someone presents in the emergency room And that's primarily where individuals that are not high-income will access care Once they show up you've got to provide the care And the last thing on your mind is a as a service provider to those individuals showing up is to ask them about status So that's not something that That they that they will do as a matter of course because they've got they're required by law to provide that care But as far as because as sent bill 4 passed after I left Seaton, but my sense is it's a faith-based organization I think the position would be this Just like the churches or sanctuaries for people of all walks of life Because it is a faith-based organization and that the hospitals run by Seaton are a ministry of the church Those will be sanctuaries as well But I don't I don't think that the people often know the difference Okay, I think the fear is still there unless we provide a lot of education and no matter how many times you put it out I know Dallas had all kinds of information Sessions and yet people still did not get the message So yes Hospitals and and churches are sanctuary areas, but people don't get the message so there's still fear in going to the church in going to the hospital and The the trip back and forth the the sanctuary this it's it's not in the trip It's going to get there, but you have to get there some way and doctor positive I could go back to education and won't as well so There was I guess coupled with with what's going on with DACA There was a study and I don't I forget numbers up top my head, but there's so many I guess thousands of teachers in Texas that Have a status that they could be worried about and now especially with DACA and sort of the limbo there So can you guys speak to not not the students because we've already talked about their parents You know being scared to take them to work But the actual workforce in the public school system and how they're affected by us people well In the way public education operates and the way that's funded by the state legislature It's all dependent on the student enrollment. So everything is driven by student student enrollment including teachers so when you look at your teachers 53% of the population in the public schools of Texas are Latina and Consequently many of those Latino students because their first generation are undocumented don't speak English So they're in limited English speakers consequently We have bilingual teachers and they're in great demand every urban district is recruiting bilingual teachers and We have so many of them that are DACA students themselves some that are 25 some 30 years old and they're facing this because obviously they're under Sage in terms of what's going to happen to them and we as a public school system then have to respond to our bilingual teachers and say Look, we are safe haven for students. We're also a safe haven for teachers You have we cannot lose you we can't afford to lose you the public education Achievement of Texas depends on those teachers who are qualified who are certified who are graduates to continue in their tenure And here we are holding them hostage. So obviously our if you go to websites at our urban districts You're gonna hear from our bilingual teachers who are DACA students themselves. I was listening to one from Dallas ISD and He's talking about the support that the district provides him is how he's able to go to school and teach every day And he has to be very open and upfront with the students and say look, I'm undocumented I'm a DACA and a member of DACA and because of that and I am I'm here to tell you that we cannot Be afraid anymore. We have to stand together and dream together so we can have the success that we need We cannot survive public education in Texas without our bilingual teachers and many of them are being held hostage Yeah, I mean we have a member at a list that she's a teacher in a ISD who has been really I mean her family comes from mixed status families and one of the things that she was sharing was like, you know My parents aren't documented every single day when I get up in the morning and I go to work My mom stays home. She does not want to go outside She she's missing her doctor appointments because she just feels like she cannot, you know, I need to drive her Her DACA expires in about a year and even having a conversation with her students and explaining to them I might not be here next year, but also her big concern is what's gonna happen when my DACA expires I'm not gonna be able to work in in the public schools anymore And also I'm not gonna be able to drive with the sense of being safe because I might get stop And if I get stop and send back to Mexico, what's gonna happen to my mother and father? Her dad is a construction worker as well and he's really worried, right? And I think with construction workers It's it's really an interesting thing because some of their their bosses are Doing wage theft so they're using as before as a tool of saying Well, you we know you're undocumented, you know, I'm gonna pay you less money And if you try to do anything that I'm gonna call The police and they're gonna take you over so they're using this as a tool to you know keep Keep construction workers in fear and they're not paying them as well on that No, thank you for helping me segue into the next topic Hurricane Harvey obviously there's gonna be a lot of rebuilding and we've already seen stories that even even before as before and I think Doc another immigration policies. There was already a labor shortage that there was not enough, you know, sort of hands to rebuild With within now and you're in your role with the with AFL So yeah, what are you seeing as far as how as before is is affecting Harris County? And this is it's an interesting sort of I guess comparison to what happened post Katrina because post Katrina after That hurricane hit the Bush administration suspended I-9 enforcement For a period of a few months and their statement said that they did that so people that were affected by the hurricane could Still get work even, you know, if they lost their documents everybody kind of Sort of wink wink nudge nudge means like hey, we need people to help rebuild this town And I think I've heard any estimates anywhere from 12 to 15,000 Mexicans and Central Americans went to Louisiana to help to help rebuild And they obviously settled there and they're still there so with respect to what happened with sp4 What are you anybody on the panel? What are y'all hearing about the rebuilding efforts and how that's being affected? With with sp4. Yeah, I mean, I think that that's one of the big concerns that we have right now with construction workers There's the big need but also, you know, if they go outside go out and seek jobs They know that they're gonna be worried about their status But also they're gonna have some contractors that are gonna take advantage of them So that adds another layer because they don't want to go outside and work But they know that they have to feed their families and that they have to leave every single day but the fact is that they're living in fear and that it's not gonna allow us to Help a recover Houston with all the construction that's gonna have to happen So yeah, it's taking a big toll on construction workers electricians plumbers. You name it It's definitely something that it's it has been impactful in the construction There was an article in the American statesman last Friday here that basically Talked about this part about this about this issue They quoted somebody who ran a business in Houston who said if I didn't have labor Undocumented labor I wouldn't have a business and so and it's very scarce And then their businesses were quoted in Austin saying already we have a tight labor market and it's even gotten worse You know when I was manager here at the city in the in the mid 90s to early 2000 This city was built on immigrant labor during that just a huge boom time We would never have been able to build the things we built in Austin without the labor that came in from Mexico and Central America and You know you only and in fact is is we have a demographic problem in the United States but we've got too many people my age and too few people that are younger and Able to do those kinds of jobs and that's what a real issue and the businesses were basically saying in the article We've got to have some relief on this or we're not going to be able to serve The communities that our businesses serve because we don't have insufficient labor Like once it referred to the there in in this construction and you know It's great for for the the general contractor the industry's bottom line But there is a lot of wage theft there's a lot of abuse So some people would say sure it was a boom town But it was you know largely on the backs of immigrant labor which were mistreated So how would you respond to that criticism as your time of city manager? Did you see that and if you did what did you do to? I think is as those issues manifested themselves or we would find out about them We would certainly we would do the evaluation. This is on 15 years ago That doesn't mean it didn't happen, but you have other things that have happened since that time I think I don't I don't remember workers defense being around at the time when I was manager They're here now, and I think that they're very involved in those kinds of things I think so there are other protections that are sitting out there to try to to ensure that things get done in an appropriate way, but I Think if your community is a welcoming community, and that's the ethic that's built I think by and large things will be okay, but I think it's something you do have to watch I think I think as more and more diversity comes into leadership positions We'll look for ways to stop a lot of that I know that in Dallas there was announcements made about if if there are the employer didn't pay you Then you should come talk to to the DA and there was a DA assistant that was Specified for just that issue. So I think it's more and more Minorities or more and more different ethnic groups Becoming to leadership. We tried to stop a lot of that But that matter that's why you need some people in Washington need to have a Smell the coffee wake up and smell the coffee. That's why we need an immigration policy That's why we need to have a policy in which we allow workers to come into this country to work legally Through green cards or other mechanisms that way you can enforce the laws to ensure that there's not wage theft and things of that nature and What what we've done is by not solving that issue We create a shadow labor force and it creates issues that we have to then try to resolve later and and law enforcement It was very confusing because you had part of the businesses Well, a lot of the business is saying we need and it's not only Construction it's the law and maintenance service. It's not the hospitals It's it's the restaurants and we could go on and on so you have business saying to us You know, we need these workers who are at the other time you have the folks saying you need to enforce this So it puts law enforcement into a very difficult position. That's what you want I was gonna mention that Sometimes we overlook that large school districts and school districts throughout Texas are not just big employers But they also have huge bond programs, which means building schools adding classrooms And those are 300 400 million dollar bond programs, which is all based on construction So the cost of construction is Continuously going up because of the lack of labor and then what happens is that the school boards try to enforce some of these requirements for minority Participation and then they have to follow through with more supervision Because they want to make sure there's not wage discrimination and that there's mechanisms so that we contract that The problem is that the cost then is going to go up for the construction Because of the supervision at the expense of people that are doing the work So there's a disparity there and it's an unfairness It's an inequity that has to be addressed and it's inherent and it's not always very obvious So there has to be some expertise and some enforcement to make sure that there's ways that we can make that we can Monitor effectively the school construction program the the general construction in the city and making sure that there is if there is Wage discrimination regardless of What the immigration status of the individual that there's a mechanism by which they can correct it and You you split time between Texas and Arizona correct So can you can you compare what you're seeing now that's before with what the people still talk about SB 1070? Because that sort of seems to fade away and people thinking you know a lot of people that are against that's before hope that You know it gets sort of tossed out and it'll kind of fade But how long does that take and what how long I guess sure for Pio still around right? He's not gone anywhere and now he's running talking about running for senator and of course He's been pardoned by President Trump and in the meantime the taxpayers voted him out because his lawsuits alone We're almost a billion dollars to defend him But and and here's a law enforcement agency a leader in law enforcement that is breaking the law and is using Public funds to protect himself But if you take him out of the picture I'm saying because that bill was passed by the legislature obviously and by the governor So what what are the repercussions that still exists in Arizona? Do you see the same thing happening in Texas? One of the repercussions obviously that we see is that that that that the law enforcement Leadership is key. So I was going to contrast that with Pima County You have Maricopa County and you have Pima County So you have one which is our Pio in Maricopa County And then you have somebody in like Duke Nick who was in Pima County who implemented the same law in the same way Totally differently because the same I'm sorry. It's the same law But the way they implemented was based on leadership So absolutely if you have the right person that understands what the enforcement law is and they do it correctly Then you don't see the repercussions So we didn't see the repercussions as much in Pima County as we saw them in the rest of the state But there's still vestiges after our pile that are going on because those police officers and those sheriff's officers Still there and they've been tainted if you will that they've operated in a certain way You still hear stories all the time I mean I can tell you living in Tucson, but working in Texas that I get to see both in contrast to too So I see oftentimes what I what I'm experiencing in Arizona is where the current is going in Texas, and that's scary Sheriff I'll ask you What so again when I referenced I think it was HP HP 12 and in Senate Bill 9 in the 2011 legislature the regular into special sessions respectively Again the language of that bill did not mention the word detainer At all they had nothing to do with with sheriff's honoring policy. What what changed to six years later to where this was the crux of it, and I guess why Why didn't More people come out you mentioned the business community Why didn't more more businesses come out as against SB4 when the the so-called Shaffer amendment the papers Please provision was tacked on I was I was on the Senate floor when the when they were concurring with the House of Amendments And I got an email from the Texas issue to business and we're gonna have a press conference tomorrow against SB4 And I wrote him back. I said you guys know what's going on right now and now we're later They said okay, this is canceled. It was wait. It was a dollar short and they lay you know So what what changed as far as the policy and where was business during this legislative session? I mean did they go all in on the bathroom bill and sort of make us before the you know the JVs and so to speak You know there were so many bills that We had to speak against that I'm not really sure what happened with business because of course I'm sure I'm not in business, but it was difficult for me because I would get called almost every week and Asked to come and testify and of course we can't do that We have to pay attention to to our county and to I mean I read I ran the seventh largest department in the United States There's something that happens every hour so but I think what what it is is that so many different issues that were going on and and I think it was more or less tactic Do you run for this one or do you run for this one? Do you try to stop this one or do you try to stop this one? Which one do you and you can't beat all of them? So I I honestly believe it was another tactic that they did of let's put as many out there as we can So let's see which one goes by Do you guys want I mean where was this committee? I don't know much. Well, I think from the get-go we need to make sure that we have elected officials that have both leadership and say this is unacceptable and that we don't do back deals On on beyond the backs of immigrants I mean we keep using immigrants as a political football and that is unacceptable, you know, we live in Texas we have a lot of us look our brown and for for as before to have passed It just sends such a bad message for our community for our students And we need leaders that are gonna stand that are gonna stand up and say enough that this is not gonna happen And if that means that they're not gonna they're gonna, you know, be bold about it and not get elected Because they stood up for what is right then we need that so was there more of those leaders in 2011 There were this last session or would probably so yes gentlemen Well for us it was such a political situation for for us to try and influence what was going on We saw the emergence of not just our association, but others as well The Texas Urban Council for example was formed because they had to Figure out a way to be in front of the legislature to give their position and and obviously Dr. Cruz is here in Austin so we can call on him But he's only one person and he's busy trying to run a very large organization So we had to back him up with some of our own members So we've created our own vision statement and we've started to look at our priorities And so we know what our priorities are in the legislative session So you have to somehow say okay This is what we're gonna do as an organization is that one two and three four top priorities Otherwise, we're running all over the place putting out fires and not dealing with some of the critical issues That we consider to be important to our agenda instead of reacting to others Well, I know the city of Austin took a very active role in trying to defeat sent sent bill for and I think that I Mean that I can't speak for the tech association of business But I think it may have been just a resource issue and you don't lead with your face in a fistfight I guess is the other point is that They may have seen the writing on the wall in the second. Where do we where do we spend our political capital? I mean, I do think that one of the things that came out of this You know having been born in Texas in 1952 and seen Texas go through a lot of things This is a different Texas than I grew up in This is we have never we've been a friendly state a state that's been welcoming to everyone And this was like you're not welcome sign got hung out at our border and at the various borders that Texas has and and I think And it's terrible that we're now we're kind of in in the same In the same boat with the the state of Arizona and Governor Brewer where they had that the bill that was passed to here a few years ago that one that you were mentioning a few minutes ago So I just think it's really unfortunate that we've gotten to this point in terms of our political environment Because this is not the Texas that has been in the past and I hope soon we can begin to change some of that Folks, I'm gonna ask one more question and open it up to questions from you all So if anybody has anything on their mind get prepared and they're gonna walk around with a microphone but I guess just to end my part asking So say say y'all y'all get your wish and the SP4 goes away through the through the judicial system Is it a moot point when we look at what's happening at the federal level? I mean how much effort are we gonna are y'all gonna spend fighting the state when the president is held bent? I mean we saw what happened last week at the 7-Eleven's The DHS director out on if you saw the testimony yesterday, you know and and folks that you advocate for you know There a lot of people say they're being held hostage You know the president said he wants to protect the 750-800,000 docker recipients, but you know he's held bent on a wall So how much how much of this is is all for not because the federal government is eventually gonna do what it wants to do? I think you know, we're living very critical times right now, and I think this is The time where we need to put fire in our bellies and be so outraged by this as before And really get our people to get registered to vote and to actually vote This this is the time where we can actually make a difference because this is so personal This is something that affects just someone that looks brown and I think if if we're not able to step up to the challenge and Educate our communities and ensure that they're registering to vote and that they're voting and that at the end of the day We need to hold these legends Racist legislators accountable This is the time to do anything and if we're not able to do it now then when do you so you're speaking about I'm assuming speaking about the Latino vote the Hispanic vote which a lot of people say is the sleeping giant that's you know been hitting the snooze button for the last You know several late election cycles you think this is gonna do it I personally think it is As I talked to even high school students and where they get to hear the stories of documented teachers and their teachers saying Means you're not gonna be here next year because your DACA is expired and they're learning what DACA is And I think this is a really important time where you know back in Ten years ago nobody knew about the rumors But in this time of the year people know what DACA is people know what is before is and I think we really need to leverage That to ensure that people know that we're living critical moments and that we must come out and vote and I know for The immigrant community Because a lot of families come from mixed status families They're doing that and I'm personally very hopeful that this is gonna be a big change for for Texas Sheriff gentlemen, do you guys want to add how I mean moving forward state or federal? What's what I think a lot of it has to do with the leadership even though the same thing that happened with us before Most of the major cities Just you know every police officer knew what their leadership wanted So they would They would more or less do what the leadership wanted unless there were a rogue officer then they would say I have the right to do this I think that the same would happen in the state and We must become the welcoming the compassionate state we must become the state that welcomes people of different Ethnic groups by the way when I was in the sheriff Dallas. There was 239 different languages spoken in North Texas This is not only about Hispanics although we seem to take the brunt of it most of the time There's a lot of other Nationalities that are in the same boat. I think it's easier for some of them to hide because they're not as obvious as we are but this concern a lot of folks and I think it As as she mentioned if we could get a lot of them Interested in voting it hurts my heart when I hear people say and why should I vote and you're able to vote It that really hurts my heart. I we need To have an emphasis on those people that can vote and are not voting This is not a red state. This is a non voting state and we have to get those Non-voters to come in here and start doing something about the new Texas about the way that Texas should be General anything before well, I mean what I what I'd say is that Voting matters and so I think you're spot-on when you're talking about how we have to get people to vote and participate in elections Yes, I think the government is going to be doing What this administration will do with respect to immigration and we've we've seen Some of their policies in effect already. I do think that we have the midterms coming up in a an 18 at November of this year and we'll just have to see whether there there's a new complexion in the United States Congress after that or not But the final thing I'd say is that what what has happened is And I and I can't speak for my brother Jose who's fought voting rights for a long long time The way districts have been drawn up not just in Texas, but in other states has really Deluded the moderate vote. It is really it is what is it is brought is a It is not a representation of what our country is and and in and in effect What what is manifesting itself in terms of policy in Washington may not all to be together consistent with what the the electorate really wants and in the end people have to feel that they have that they have a Voice and if you if you limit that voice or you shut out that voice Then participation elections are going to continue to go down because it doesn't make any difference And I think we've got a we got to find a way to to bring some balance to that So people can feel that they can make a difference with their vote. I want to put a face to our dreamers I mean we're talking about people that talk about pro-life pro-life advocates and These are lives and lives of matter These are lives that have faces. These are people whose dreams are in our schools as they're gaining their education and building for their future and Providing for the support of their families We can talk about each one of us our own story We can talk about your story, but we have to understand that these tragic situations have consequences When you talk about sending somebody who's lived in this country most of their adult most of their lives and Sitting in some place where they're going to be shot where they're going to be killed where they're going to be kidnapped This happens every day I can talk to you about people that I worked with just last week and I visited with them who are living on one acre with five different families because Their son who was living in Mexico graduated and then he was kidnapped and he was told he told the family You need to give up your land to us because they're part of the drug cartel and if you don't we're going to kill your son Well, they took his land and they killed his son and they all fled and they're all living Now in the United States, they're not documented their recent arrivals, but if you send them back to Mexico guess what? They're going to be killed. These are real people. These are real tragedies that are facing us and the consequences are going to be ours to deal with in the long-term Folks that anybody have anything for any of our panelists would like And we're also okay with you not asking questions Officers receiving in terms of us before and its implementation I work a lot on constructing know your rights information and presentation for the community and We've had a bit of trouble with some of the more rural small towns being able to explain what their implementations are and We just continue to talk to one person after the other and no one I don't know if this is an issue of communication and they want to say the right thing or if perhaps I don't know if they're not receiving a particular training and that's even bad for their own officers Not to know that so I just want to know what kind of trainings they go in terms of us before Again, it depends. There's the rule and the urban differences and and unfortunately, we're always going to have that I think the urban departments are Very strong in what they present and basically it's whatever the law is and then above that Usually comes the direction of the leadership I'm not going to tell my officers. You cannot stop Because of course we will get into a law issue But I will tell my officers. Here is our priorities This is what we need to work on and of course the majority of them are going to go to our priorities I think the same may happen in a rural situation if a Police chief or a very sure Has a priority of we want federal money in our jails or we want to hold People for the feds because that gives us money then they're going to lean that way But again, it goes back to the direction of the leadership. I think if the state was saying That's not one of our priorities, which it is not now. I think The culture would eventually change it takes a while I took a department that I literally had to change the culture It took me more than 70 years to change that culture And I had to change the whole culture of the department a lot of that had to do with some of the older ones going away You know, I'm sorry And and a lot of it had to do with training the new ones that were coming in But the culture does have to change and and we have to start somewhere Thank you I did reach out to the Texas Commission on law enforcement to see if they had like a sort of statewide policy and they Said we just tell them what the law is and it's pretty much every department the 254 counties I think to sort of implement it their own way Good evening, my name is Leonard Chan. My question is there's been a lot of focus on traditional law enforcement discussion here What about the more untraditional law enforcement like certified law enforcement of fire marshals code enforcement officers? What do you see is the impact on how they're implementing their Mr. Job I Guess that comes back to me Why am I getting all these questions? Again, it's the direction of the leadership. We do have in in our area We have a lot of people commissioned by of the fire department by the Marshall and and and they each Lead in their own different manner Right as I was leaving the shirts department. We were being considered to take over the the fire marshals Commission in law enforcement because they do have a commission and they can be commissioned by the fire Marshall for law enforcement So and and that's a different direction There's a different training and we were complaining that if you're going to be commissioned law enforcement You have to be trained in law enforcement Not commissioned by the fire Marshall for law, but again it goes back to the leadership with the city with the county will direct and and and we have to advocate for The direction that we want and building officials have a tough time tough enough time just keeping the electrical code straight I don't think they'll be involved with respect to what you were talking about about, you know, the hospital It's not there's it's not the staff's responsibility check status But are do you have you heard our people afraid to call the fire department or the paramedics because of SB4? I have not I have not I think if there's an emergency They're gonna call 9-1-1 and to get to get taken care of First here and then then we'll go to you To vote it's really, you know if you take away people's right, but we also have a state that works very hard to suppress voting So that's something that we have to overcome by electing officials that are open to people voting and I was very surprised we were at another Discussion about voting and Someone who was Hispanic said that it is not part of the Hispanic Culture to vote and that really surprised me it never occurred to me that it was a cultural thing You're shaking your head. No, I don't think it's a cultural thing. Is that your question whether it's whether they can speak to those? well, well just Speaking to voting. How do you? Make people understand how important it is when they think their vote doesn't count or Whoever they're electing doesn't really represent them first of the to the question of Latinos not participating you disagree with that Yeah, I totally disagree with that. I became a citizen five years ago and when I you know Did the oath to become a citizen? I pledge and I committed myself to vote in every single election and I know for many people That's the case as well I think Sometimes people don't vote because they don't they see the people that are running and they don't offer anything or they don't have a platform that Makes you want to vote for them but And and also it's hard like you know when I became a citizen my last name had Montserrat Garibay And my voter registration had Montserrat Garibay Hernandez And it took me 30 minutes the first time that I voted and they were like no you're not this person I'm like yes, I just became a citizen I know my rights and I want to vote and I stay there 30 minutes and I think a lot of people have a hard time trying to just the voter suppression right and how do you go and how do you vote and the amount of of Obstacles that that they put for a person to vote. I think that that's the problem Not necessarily that we don't want to vote. I disagree with that. I think there's probably an importance here in terms of overcoming the Perception that it doesn't matter what you do that you're totally helpless in terms of your vote So we have to be able to provide education so that they understand that there's a way to overcome that But I think there is an inherent belief that why should I vote it doesn't make a difference So I think there is some some some work to be done there Absolutely, and let me just tell you I'm very proud of some of the work that's being done in some of our school districts where they're actually doing voter registration with their high school students now and DACA has been Instrumental in raising the awareness with our students. They're not eligible to vote yet, but they can't wait to start That's question. This is a great topic this one I've been wanting to ask a question about since we started and that is related to voting because Not only has fear been perpetrated by the leadership about Immigration, but it's also there's been fear perpetrated about voting There has been real Intimidation of not just immigrant Related families, but of anybody that's not I mean we have the lowest voting in the country And there's a reason for that and the thing that I do want to ask the panel about is that there are some new Organizations that have begun to spring up. You'd mentioned one There's several now both in the business community and especially in the education community Trying to turn around that lowest voting Record that we have now and I wonder how you each have been involved with some of those organizations There's a new one in the Dallas-Fort Worth area of all the major Corporations who are now getting out the message that their employees need to vote and all the education programs that have come to into being But you've got the Attorney General already out there today saying they can't use school resources to do that So I I'd like to know how each of you are involved in those kinds of organizations and in health care We would Be early voting sites for and encourage people to vote giving a time to vote Especially, you know when You've got nurses working for you. They're working 12-hour shifts We wanted to make sure that that was open and we would talk about the issues and here's what's important with respect to For our system in terms of health care, whether it's the expansion of the Medicaid program Whether it's the now that's the discussion in Washington the reauthorization of the chip program Those are things that are important to health care and we would try to make those connections to our workforce and I think But one of the things that happens is that that votes have to matter and if what you've done is you've effect if you Through the through the districting system The way the districts are drawn up you if you have virtually disenfranchised someone Then voting doesn't matter as much Austin is broken up into five pieces And so I think we've got to address that as citizens because what that does is that lower civic participation On key and major issues for our state and our communities So within the Texas AFL CIO we really do We work a lot with our different Central labor councils to ensure that they're registering to vote And also we're starting a campaign where we're really uplifting the voices of union members electricians Pipe feeders and just letting the letting sharing our stories as union members know why it's important to vote So I mean with the if I'll say we're doing that But when I was with education Austin different organizations got together with it I believe education educators both And you know we had a lot of our teachers within education Austin that we did blog walking phone banking and God teachers to get got deputized to register people to vote So there's different efforts going on, but I think that we need to step up to the plate and do more Folks, unfortunately, we're out of time, but thank y'all very very much