 Hwyl yn ymgyrch gan y cynllun yw'r ddangos? Gaws i gynllun ddoll diwrn teimlo yn ffair? See, rydw i'n frym rwy'n meddwl ymgyrch, ym mwrdd Cymru yn raddiololwyddiolwyddiol. Bydd yn y llwyafi'r cyntaf o'r llwyfon cyfaradu sydd yn gyfrif yeder. Mae aelodau o'i cefnod ar gyfer y dylai dim ond mae'r amser pwyllwy, oherwydd dwy'n ffordd dwy'n cymryd o'r cyfrifau sydd. Wrth gyda'r cyfnod, yma yn ffost yn bwysig. Mae'n bwysig, ond mae'n cerddol cyfnod先生au ac mae'n enwedig yn casodfodaeth cys�� gwirioneddau ac mai'n allanol jannol. Wyddech chi rŵn i gydlugio llunio yma. Fydden nhw, wrth hwnnw, yw hwnnw ddim yn hollun i'r cafau bod chi'n dau'r arfer o'n ei ddatblygu'r mawr. Byddai'n cyfffecte a'r ffwrdd arall arall. Fi rôl beth ym yn ymwneud yn ddeif yn sylwconiaeth, yn drwng ffwrdd, yn drwng eich behalfiedd. Felly oedd villages gwybodd yn ddweud, awn ympaith hefyd, rydych chi'n ddweud a'r nowod yma. Dw i fyddo, rydw i'n ddod cael eu ddweud o'r godiwr hynach, eu ddeunyddion i'r dyfwn. Ond dwy fyddi'n ddweud ei ddweud, wrth gwrdd i'r ddweud e'n ddweud. oedd yn y gallu ymgyrch, yn y dyn ni'n gallu gyda'r ffunol. Wrth gwrs yw'n credu'n meddwl, ydych chi'n ffordd i ddim yn ymwybodol, oedd y ddweud o'r ffordd o hynny, ac, olywodod, Corry Lasky'n meddwl i'r ffunol i'r mewn gredigol. Mae'n meddwl i gwrdd eich rhan oherwydd eich gwrdd am y gallwn cymdeithasol, yn y cyfnodau bod hynny, yn y gallu. Wrth gwrs, mae'n gwrs ymgyrch. Mae'n fath o'r brif, Half of the dream state is cos it's a state of shock as much as anything. Cos you really not expect this to be happening to you. You know, up to this point in your life you've been a professional person dealing on a professional level with people. And you're used to being controlled of things if you like in that sense. Whereas here, you have no control, so you've lost all control to these other people, all of whom you feel bear your matters since some form or other. A'r grithgau'r maen nhw'n cadw ddau, ond mae'n gallu byddai'n bêl o'ch cymdeithas wedi'u prifoedau'r baith. Rwy'n meddwl y prifoedd yma wedi bod wedi'i'n meddwl i'r prifoedd. Rwy'n meddwl i'r prifoedd yn y penigol. Rwy'n meddwl i'r prifoedd i'r prifoedd i'r brif mwyn i'r defnyddol, ond rwy'n meddwl i'r prif. ? So that was that it was at that stage? That they were asked how I knew I was videoent What in the tapes?洗 tiyre golf? That was at that first chord. So Because of gender charg was there to conspire with others in them automatically had to go up a higher level. I had not been thrown out because the медiciye agreed pan fawr yn ei hunain, at hefyd yn gyda'r gwrthafodol. Mae'r mhob i'r gwaith, rwy'n gweithio'r gwrthafodol, neu atweithio'r Llywodraeth, ac ein bod yn gweithio'r llwyddiad, ond, y dyma, yr Magistrait bynnag wedi bod nhw'n gobeithio'r perthyn nhw'n mynd o'r ddau o'r gwaith arall, oherwydd mae'r llwysr wedi'i ddod, yn ystafell o'r hyn o'n gweithio'r llwyddiad, nid oedd y cwylwyddiad i'r ddysgu. Felly, nid oedd yn fwy o wneud yn y gweithio. Rwy'n meddwl i gyflwyno'r arloedd. Rwy'n meddwl i fynd arall, y ddefnyddiaeth, ac yr ysgrifennu, dwi'n meddwl i'n meddwl i'r ddysgu. Rwy'n meddwl i'n meddwl i'r ddysgu, i'r ddysgu rydych chi'n meddwl i'r ddysgu, o'r hyn yn ymweld ar y dyfnod. Rwy'n meddwl i'n meddwl, Ie, mae'r gwneud yn ei gynhyrchu, mae'n gwneud o'r llyfr yn y llyfr yn eich cymdeithas. Rydym yn ymweld yn ymweld hyn. Rydym yn ymweld hynny'n gweld arall mae'n gweld arall. Rwy'n ymweld diwethaf i yllan cymdeithas y Llyfr? Diolch i nhw'n cymdeithas iawn, beth sy'n cymdeithas y Llyfr? Rwy'n ymweld diwethaf i ymweld i'r llyfr yn ymweld? Yn Mynd Gwylwch, mae'n gweithio i ddweudio'r cyffredinol a'r hyffredinol. Cymru i'n meddwl i'w ddweudio'r cyffredinol, ac mae'n meddwl i'w ymdweud o'r cychwynfyd. Mae'n gweithio i ddweudio ei wneud yn cyffredinol. Mae'r cyffredinol i ddweudio'r cyffredinol ym mwyn i fynd i'r cyffredinol. A ar ôl y dyfodol yma'r cyffredinol, maen nhw yma ar y dyfodol i'w hwn. Felly mae'r dweud o'r brifysgol yw llawer yn y dal, pan mae'r dda i gynnwys yma ychyrdd. Mae'r ymhell yn drwy yn cael eu chael y mewn dyfodol efallai ei ddwych i'r Muntanol. Felly ei ddweud o ddweud o ymhell yn wneud llawer i'r 10 yn yr oedd. Mae'r ddwych i'r 80 hfer o'r dyfodol mae'n rhaid i'r wneud. Felly, i wnaeth y gallwn ni'n addiwyd ymarfer at y roi ei sgudd. Gweithio'n gwneud am fewn ar draws, descending yr eich ymgyrch – ac yn blodd, ac y gallwn ni'n edrych i'n ei wneud wedi bod y gallwn i chi gwneud, gyda'r gondygaeth o'r ddechrau i ddechrau a dyna yn cael eu diwrnod i chi gwirioneddau. Roedd wedi beth yna'r dosa transgloeth o'r drosent, dyma ar gyfer yr arddigus ym Llythion yn Llythion toth yn unig. Mae'r wneud yn eich bod yn yr gyd-doedd, mae hynny'n meddwl i chi wedi gweld ac mae'r ardal sydd yn cael eu gynhyrch sydd yn ysgol a gynhyrch. Mae'n mewn ffwrdd, mae'n meddwl i chi ddau yn allu, mae'n gwyfodd yn gweithio mewn gwirionedd. Mae gennym. Rydw i'n gweithio, rydw i'n gweithio. Mae'n gweithio eich bod yn gweithio. Mae'n gweithio i gyd, mae'n gweithio eich bod yn rheidio fel y Gwyl Fyffordd. Of course, because, of course, now you've got the baristers all chatting away, and they're all talking in legalese, and they refer to various books, learning books and precedences, and some of our precedences went back to the mid-1800s, you know, because the law hadn't been erased in the interim, so they could use case history from any previous case, no matter how old, as long as it's still on the statute. Which the prosecution was doing quite regularly, and so we listened to all this stuff they take us in turn, and it's obvious where myself and Colin and Tony fitted because we were up the sort of far end towards the end of most of this, so we started with what they considered was the lower level stuff, and of course most of it was not to do with me, most of it was not to do with any one person, because there was 15 of us, and of course it took like forever, so for days you'd be there, and it was nothing about you at all, or what you'd done, it was all about these other folk, and the same for them, you know. But what I did remember was one of the court ushers or something saying, I don't know why you chaps rear at all, he said, from what I've seen and read, none of you should be here, and that gave us a bit of encouragement, that's just a court official saying that, and so it did drag on and on, I did laugh at one point, one of the barristers, she was quite keen on talking about anal sex, you know, and it just made me laugh, and the judge said, excuse me Mrs, whatever her name was, one of the defendants seems to find this funny, and he glowered at me. And I thought, oh, sorry to you, and the judge was named Judge Rant, which we all decided was fairly well named, it was very anti-ripe on the word go, anything that was in the press and so on was not considered relevant, and that includes the heavyweight presses that were more liberal in their approach, and less judgmental than the tabloids, because the tabloid stuff was, they loved it of course because it was salacious, and it was about queers and torture and all the things that makes for a good setting of newspapers, but the more serious press, times, guardians, these sort of people, their stuff, while having an element of that was much more balanced, and in fact Tony and I were interviewed by the Guardian, that came down here and did an interview with us, and that was pretty good, but none of what we wanted quoted out of any of the serious press was allowed by the judge, but we couldn't help but notice that some of the stuff quoted in the tabloids managed to creep out in the prosecution's case without being challenged, so, you know, we then got to the stage, I don't know after how many days this was, when we had to decide having the evidence getting cleared, did we want to plead guilty or not guilty, or did we want to reserve to go to trial by jury, because that's another option you see, so they hear all this stuff first and then you have to make the choice to now plead guilty to what these charges are, or do you want to plead not guilty to go to a jury trial, well I wanted to go to a jury trial, as did Tony actually, but we agreed Tony and I and our legal teams, it would serve no purpose because of the videos, we knew that if the general public saw these videos from a position of knowing nothing, they would be shocked, it would be, you know, just by the nature of this, not what your average once a week with the lights out married couple would deem acceptable behaviour, and of course the prosecution allowed to choose the jury pretty much as well, so we pleaded guilty on the advice of our legal teams, so that's where that got to. It was more than one offence, wasn't it? It was, wasn't it? Well, it's a whole pile on me, but I read out a few minutes ago that it was mine and lots of the others had very similar sorts of things, they were all about actual bodily harm and grevious bodily harm and so on. Wow. I never sat in one of the blobes at work just after the case was in the papers, I said, oh I've been charged with grievance bodily harm, and he said, what, you, Rhoda, in that sort of quizzical voice, you've been charged with grievance bodily harm, he just couldn't see it, you know. Yeah. And so that's where it all went, they just carried on with plodding through their stuff. It's obviously going to be unsympathetic, there was no point in pleading, not guilty, because the other thing is, if you plead not guilty and go to trial with the jury, if you found guilty subsequently, you get a longer sentence. Oh. And that applies in America and a lot of countries, it's to stop people wasting court's time. Got it. See, it's saying that you knew full well you were guilty, because you've just been found guilty, therefore you must have been wasting our time asking for a trial by jury. So we're going to dollop a bit more sentence on you, well that's another who's wanted to go to prison anyway. We plead guilty, so that's where we ended up. While you were, I guess you were in the criminal court, you went into the toilet and you saw graffiti about one of the judges, tell us about that. Well it was actually quite a lot of graffiti in the toilets, not quite as good as in the cottaging days and not quite so much variety, but nevertheless one that I liked in particular, it was only a written one, and it said, I wanted to be a high court judge but my parents were married. And what that interprets as all judges are bastards, that actually tickled me that, or I would like that, I wanted to be a high court judge but my parents were married. But I have to say that the judge have no sense of humour whatsoever, but they don't. But then neither do consultants in hospitals have any sense of humour, they're too busy being professional I suppose, in their circumstances I'll probably be just the same. You received three one year sentences to be consecutively served, tell us about that. Well again as a rule of thumb, if you get more than one sentence for something, they're usually served all in one. So if you'd got a year, a year and a year you'd normally just serve a year, it would be concurrent. To be served concurrently is by far the norm in UK courts for sentencing, but in my case and I think Tony's, we've got fairly short sentences that added up to three years and three years plus. And the judge said they had to be served consecutively, which meant we got three years instead of like six months. So I mean that was a nasty little aside. I mean okay, they have the power to do that, but why do it? You know, it's not been vindictive. Perhaps even vindictive's the wrong word, just didn't like us. It said at one point when the judge looked at videos which was a closed court day, meaning the public weren't admitted that day. We didn't have to go if we didn't want to and I didn't go, not because I was ashamed of the videos but I knew I couldn't stand them in that situation. Knowing how his lordship would be feeling, he said it made him feel physically sick and the policeman said the usual sort of things like we were deeply shocked and it never ceases to make me how deeply shocked policemen can get. I mean I watch these crime series on digital channels these days and they're always deeply shocked. Now to be fair, some of the stuff they see and come across is deeply shocking. For someone that's been with Job for years and years, it would take a lot to be deeply shocked. I mean I should have thought a budget child or something would make you deeply shocked. Not someone whacking someone else's ars with a leather strap. Do you think perhaps that's just the vernacular that they tend to use? Oh, I think so. It looks good in print. The other thing they often say when reporters say, which they're told by the police, to every question so-and-so said no comment and that's used against you as somehow you're not cooperating with them. In the media it appears that you're not cooperating because you must be guilty. It's nothing to do with that. It's to do with the fact that in law and on the advice of solicitors you don't have to say anything. So why should you? It's up to them to prove it. You don't have to say a word. It doesn't really not cooperate. You'll happily answer every question with no comment. So that's another little way they put a slight twist on things when reporting it to make it seem worse. Of course you used to say that a straight couple having sex in the dark once a month in their own bedroom would be made to sound obscene in a court because it's the way barristers were. Barristers today, especially prosecution barristers, to tie you in knots and make you come across as absolutely appallingly as possible. That's another reason I wasn't keen on a trial by jury because I knew I'd get wrapped in knots instantly by a barrister. That's not the good way. At work I always used to write down my strategies for particular projects and things, have a notebook with them all in. Everything was ordered so that I knew where I was at. If I was caught on the hop doing ad-libbing stuff like when I'd give, I don't know, lectures to people in the forces on equipment we were giving them, sometimes it got a bit of a money. Nothing serious but enough that I couldn't order any thoughts properly. So a barrister would have had me hung drawn and quartered within a few seconds I should think. That's where we're at with that. Tell us about your incarceration in the old Bailey and for the benefit of the North American audiences would you please again explain old Bailey? Of course I understand but someone else viewing this may not understand what that means. In like most countries there are levels of courts for very minor misdemeanours. You can be tried by a JP which is a justice of the peace. Which is basically a lay person with no legal training who can do the kids who go shoplifting and this sort of thing. People run in over, people with their bicycles, all the really low level. Not really, well slightly anti-social but that's the lowest level. The JPs are elected and pointed by magistrates who are the next pile up and the magistrates court is the lowest proper court or you have a juvenile court. That's a different thing altogether. And then above the juvenile courts you have the crown courts. There's usually one per county or whatever we've got. There's a crown court in Hartford, there's a crown court in St Albans. There's crown courts over most big towns. They deal with most of the rest of the stuff. Anything that's considered particularly notorious and dodgy can go up. The top of the crown court pile, although it's legally still the same thing, is the Old Bally, which is a central criminal court. That's the one that is famous in pictures with the lady holding scales in one hand and the sword of justice in the other. So that's the main one. People always think of that as a court but actually there's about 12 or 13 courts within it. Depending how many you are and what cases you end up in different ones. Once you've signed in, when you come in and said you surrender yourself to the court, you're then taken down to the cells. The cells are, and they have bars on them and things, a bit like the American ones these with the open bars in a room there with other defendants or waiting to be called to your various courts. Then you get taken up and sat in the jury box. Not the jury box. What was I? Not the witness, the defendant. Thank you, the defendants. That voice-off camera, sorry about that. That's alright. So when they take you from the cells, you're taken upstairs into the courtroom where you're put in the defendants area, which in our case was quite large because there was 15 of us, which as I said most of us didn't know most of the others at that time. And you listen to all the evidence from there. Unlike the American system, which I have to say I prefer, you don't sit next to your counsel. So if you want to say something to them when they're doing their talk on your behalf, you have to try to get the attention of an attendant, a court attendant, pass him a note. He takes the note to your barrister, he says pass it back and so on. That's how that works. At the end of the day the judge says whether you can go home or not and it all carries on for the next day. So take us through the findings of the courts and how things progressed. What happened? Once we had been found guilty, or once we pled guilty, then the judge then adjourns the court for two or three days or a week to get what are called reports on you. So they then ask for reports of the various defendants to their mental state, physical state, what other things they might have. The judge has access to all previous convictions and so on, of which I had none. In fact most of the people there, certainly Tony and Colin, I think actually Colin turned out, did have one, but most of us had no previous things. So they then weigh that all up and then the judge on his own then decides what sentence you get. So then the judge calls you all to stand one at a time, he then passes his sentence, which in my case was three times one year, equals three. As soon as that's announced you're taken back down to the cells and you are then transported off to the prison, whichever one may decide. In my case and for all of us I think we went to prison, we all went off to Brixton. Ah, let's see. So we're in these white vans that you see on British news with the darkened windows and you could see people's flash guns firing through the dark glass to try and get a picture. The interiors are all moulded fibreglass. Ah. The interiors are all moulded fibreglass. Everything's smooth, horribly slippery so you nearly crash about every time you go in a corner. Oh my gosh. So then when you get you into the prison, on arrival you go to reception where you're made to strip everything off and then you get examined by some nerdy prison officer who checks that you haven't got anything nasty secreted anywhere you shouldn't have. So that's a bit demeaning to be honest and there's one thing been in a scene where people are enjoying it. It's entirely different than some sort of milk of a prison officer starts messing your bail. After that you then hand over all your goods and chattels, they give you a pile of prison stuff, they find out what medications you're on if any, make a note of those for the prison doctor and then it's off to your cells and then they put two of you go in the cell, lock the door and that's it and then you just have to contemplate for a while and then I went in with one of the other defendants, after a while some fairly young prison officer came in and he tried the old threatening style, you know, you just do what you told or I'll sort you out and this, that and the other and I thought I'll just do what he says, it's no odds to me if he wants me to stand up, sit down or sit on me hands or put me hands with me, why should I care? I'm not going to cause a fight over that, I thought that's the only power you've got over me, if I just do what you say, you haven't got any power over me. I just did what they said and took no notice of you basically. But Brickston was pretty horrible, it was overcrowded, which apparently is even worse these days. And the food was disgusted. I'm glad I wasn't around during World War II because the first meal we had was dried egg and I don't know if you've ever tasted dried egg it's powdered egg, they dehydrate eggs turn them into a sort of pulp, put them in trays, bake them and then you get this sort of rubber that is dried egg and it's disgusted, prison food was revolting. But in a while, we were on rule 43 now that's for sex offenders and child molesters and this sort of thing it's what the other prison's called nonces that's the people who are not deemed to be proper nice prisoners like they are because they're only like murderers or a bit burglars fraudsters or something so you're segregated and of course gay people are welcomed in prison anyway so rule 43 was alright because it meant we were safer on rule 43 and within a few days you get into a routine so that wasn't too bad but they transferred me away from someone I knew into with some other Indian bloke so that being in his cell I got most of my stuff and neat because I didn't know that every time people come in the cell they take whatever they can find so things that mattered in those places and the tooth bases, the essentials and everyday life they disappear just after you bought them because you have to buy them you can get earnings and if you do jobs you get earnings and you get paid in tobacco which as I didn't smoke, wouldn't that used to be so you would then trade that off? so that's the way you're supposed to do a trade but there was a really sort of deafening airiness about Brixton if people said the wrong things in the wrong places like to get doffed but I've pretty much taught me way out of most situations that's why I used to be quite good at it to college in places like that you might know, so I do chunk around a bit and if you can make them laugh you can generally stop them attacking you well you did see it that you lived with an overall sense of menace yes there was, nevertheless because I had always been afraid of being beaten up and assaulted and things I wouldn't have gone well without anything like that happened got close a couple of times on one occasion this was in a different prison later my cellmate told the bloke to shove off the effect and then that was that diffused but I did help people this was more in the second prison after the because I got out on bail from the first thing I remember Barrett the solicitor saying to me if I granted bail the chances are you won't go back in because they don't like to re- admit people who they granted bail to having been in a he got that wrong he got everything he said wrong he said he was a criminal barrister a criminal solicitor and I said oh you're not that bad ah so that was something else that was wrong but you were very isolated then there were no phones in the first one visits were you had to apply for visits letters were obviously all red both directions both going out and coming in sure and it wasn't a particularly pleasant place only the toilet facilities at that time were just a bucket in the corner plus an open sort of toilets with no doors a bit further down the thing the place to be aware to be wary was in the exercise yard because that had that was all the clothes as well and that exercise was separate from the other prisoners so you didn't get duffed by them because you're a nonce and for people like Tony and I so we really had come from a professional background this was a whole unknown world that we'd never been part it's not as though we'd grown up through the system like a lot of them had and the exercise yard was particularly dangerous because they had a toilet block but it was opening both ends so you could sort of stroll through it so if they wanted to do any harm to it probably they'd nudge it into the toilet block do them harm and then coming out the other side but I applied to a bail and I said I didn't know and the solicitor said why don't you apply for bail I said well I don't want it if I'm going to go back