 Good afternoon morning evening wherever you are Are you guys doing? Michael that was I'm gonna take that on that temporary. I'm you as a good Alright, how are you doing? It's alright It's Friday, that's maybe the best thing that that's going on today Hi Emily Should I give it a few more minutes? I know John was having internet issues Earlier this morning And I do think he sees out right now. I don't see him online at all Emily am I right that you all are? Coming up with the the actual speaking parts for April 9th or May 9th, I'm guessing For the actual talk You yeah, so that was already recorded. Oh was it okay cool. Yeah, so that's that was do Monday So that that's been done and taken care of That's right because it's not actually physically happening in one place and it doesn't have to happen live No, it's all pre-recorded. So the talk has just it's a high-level overview of the Outlines and the justification and reasoning behind the paper So more high-level themes about why we have it the way that we have it What it's addressing what its goals and objectives are all of that Yeah, I saw John's John speaking bits Okay, so I've got the issue pulled up There he is Everyone We didn't start without you I have had some really interesting internet connectivity issues today Really enjoying it. Glad it's Friday Happy days Apologies for that so I guess I just Full green screen Cole Yeah, I had a for I had the talk for cloud native security day, and I've been too busy clean up my mess But I love that there's a door in the background so it completely ruins the magic Yeah, I know it's great It wasn't as wide as it looked like on Amazon It's it's making me feel more relaxed. It's good How do we want to take this forward I guess Emily from from a from the perspective of getting things done and moving it to the next step with with reviewers and such Yeah, so typically what happens at this point is the document is Locked from right edits by the writers and the contributors and it's converted into a suggestions only mode The reason why we do suggestions and comments is as an adjudicator of the document It is far easier to simply go through and accept or reject or comment on a suggestion Then it is to take comments and copy and paste them into the document So we we like to have suggestion mode as well as comments turned on it makes it a lot faster for adjudicators to go through and Just accept things a lot of the time We'll get more comments than actual suggested changes. Some of the suggestions are usually typo errors or grammatical corrections or Slight rephrasings of sentences just to make it easier to read and understand There the group of adjudicators is usually small it's about three to four people Who during the course of the community review basically watch their email for when people make comments or Suggestions and they go through and they try to clean them up as they come in and occur. Some of them do require Conversations through the comments about what's going on reaching out to the commenter directly for assistance There the Intent behind being an adjudicator is to ensure that the comments and the suggestions that are being made Do not alter the intent or content of the document beyond what it was originally intended for When we go to contribute it to the repo like the final document That's usually where we write up like this is the intent of the document This is the history behind it These are some of the decisions about how we wrote it the way that we did and if somebody were to make changes to it This is what we would intend them to keep in mind or align their changes to be like and that's usually What the adjudicators going through this process will refer to is something like that Or they'll agree to those items ahead of time and then they usually end up writing what that read me is for Contributing to the repo. So once we have our adjudicators identified and the documents placed in suggestion editing mode I can send the email out to the lists and we open it up for community comments typically Chris or Another person on our mailing list will open it up to the talk mailing list as well as the community mailing list So I expect to get a lot of comments. I think on the cloud native security paper. We had over 2400 comments and suggestions by the time the document was done and That included the original editors as well. So quite a bit, right? Thanks. So so how do we ascertain and Set up adjudicators So typically they are individuals that have core right access to the document So when you go to the Google Docs permissions because right now I last time I checked it was very locked down You go through and you add people as editors based off of their email and then the link the there's like a share link You change the share link permissions from read-only to suggestion And that will enable suggestions and comments for everybody that's accessing it from the URL Got it. I've got it as commenter as opposed to this viewer commenter and editor The commenter does the suggestion piece. Yep. Cool done. Okay, so and so it's now everyone can comment and The edit is going to be the adjudicators So in terms of identifying who would be an adjudicator is that We use a group. We just pick ourselves or is there yep as a group you guys pick I Got it seem to have the ability to comment John Is it the correct URL because sometimes they can change It's the one in our title Yeah What's your email Richard? It's our Julian. I'm logged in as the what I've what I've edited in the past our Julian five seven at gmail.com Interesting, okay. Now I did. Oh, I did a hard refresh and now I'm in suggesting mode. Okay. Awesome. Cool. Thanks Yep, but in but in terms of the actual adjudicator there. No, I'm actually not signed in at all So anybody can suggest from the greater internet. We are allowing that's correct. Okay, cool So that's that up, but but in terms of the actual adjudicator Do we have a? You if who wants to be adjudicator, I mean, I wouldn't mind being one I Would recommend us or Nope, no process I would recommend no more than four people that have a surplus of time over the next two weeks because this The comment period will run for two weeks and then we'll need the owner of the document to lock it down to view only I'm on holiday next week, so So I've got lots of time to do this. I was gonna say and so you want to do this is your holiday We can barely we well we we can actually move around tomorrow. The lockdown is almost over, but yeah, so you guys can't fly to Mallorca So I'm up for doing that, but any any other takers Emily, how much time does that take every year? How much did you take for the last white paper? So Some days were busier than others It typically does not take long to actually go through and adjudicate some of the suggestions because it's literally you get the email You open up the doc you go through and click accept or reject accept or reject accept or reject Some of the comments you need to be decisive in whether or not the comment is providing Value on feedback to that particular section or if it's just somebody making a point and You're empowered as the editor of the document to if a comment has a much better Turn a phrase than what we have in the document you are going to take that and you're going to add it in so if you're comfortable With the overall core text and you understand what we were trying to say those are usually individuals I recommend but from a time commitment perspective I wouldn't expect more than an hour a day tops For two weeks I can block out our day from the next two weeks to do this I would recommend doing it closer towards the end of the day or Early in the morning to catch up on the stuff from the previous day and there's four of you Potentially that could be doing this. So it's a lot easier Whoever gets to the comments first or the suggestions first that's great There were a few occasions where I had a lot of back and forth with somebody I actually got their direct email We started emailing and discussing a particular area to try to understand a little bit more what they were looking for I was I was just gonna ask that what if they don't have that dialogue back and forth with you That's fine. If you have an issue with the comment just Resolve it and move on right give it a couple days or something. Yeah, I usually recommend Replying to the comments if it's one that you're just any time you're going to resolve a comment Go ahead and reply to it Regardless of what the status is if you're incorporating and rejecting it You can also reply to a comment and link it to an issue number in the repo So if it's something you want to tackle later, that's also doable that way They'll get the email notification that hey, this is being taken care of elsewhere first suggestions that we're rejecting if it's small minor typo grammatical things that like Ultimately change the intent behind that particular sentence feel free to just reject them if they are rejections because they Rewrite the entire thing and it's kind of controversial. Make sure you include a comment on that before you Reject it that way they get the notification and justification as to why it's just a courtesy thing And you're probably gonna hurt some people's feelings, but don't feel bad That's not a problem for me Yeah, I'd be an educator adjudicator if there's one more needed. Are we all this is another thing Are we all taking the exact same comments? Are we all gonna get the same updates and the same? Okay, yes, we erase Cole can you pay me your what what is your email address can use for my mail? Cole k-42 here. I'll send it to you on On slack. Thank you Should we speak different sections or areas across? Tipu it won't unfortunately been on it won't it won't Filter notifications based upon the sections that people comment on so there's not really an easy way of doing that I guess what we could do is we could if we needed to if somebody is more familiar with the subject matter We could just ping each other on slack and be like hey go go John can you handle this section about in todo? We can do that Yep, that would be the recommended way to take care of it. How do people Emily? How is the word getting out to try to have people review this? Through the CNCF mailing lists So I send it out to security and I'll probably ping our talk liaisons to send it out to the talk And then usually somebody else with higher level permissions emails it to CNCF all so everybody will get it at that point I Have not tweeted it in the past because I don't want everybody on the internet to go through and have an opinion But usually we keep it within the CNCF community. Don't be surprised though if we get government or Research or academia that are not common members in the community providing feedback This is also a good opportunity for us to get more security members great cool So we have three takers if if there's not a fourth that's fine We can put it to maybe the slack room But if there is a fourth adjudicator and no one wants to put the hand up I Can't hold John Want to do that Vinod? Yep Super fair is that okay? Or is anyone also Sensitive to everyone's needs, right? You don't have a burning need that they want to be a judicator. No There's four awesome, okay, so I'm gonna go ahead and Hit send on that draft message and I'll ping our talk liaisons to get that taken care of So if you all are subscribed to the security mailing list you will see that email coming shortly And adjudicators, it's open for two weeks. So by April 24th The document will need to be locked right and well that just means changing the URL permission from comment to read only Right, okay Sound good. I think we're good Yeah Awesome Um Yeah, I think we're good And yeah, I've taken multiple copies of it on a regular basis just out of sheer paranoia Cool anything else we need to To go through I mean that sounds reasonable for 24th Yeah, our next steps after that is once all the comments have been adjudicated. So typically We'll stretch it for another week after that through the 30th So we'll lock for editing on the 23rd slash 24th And then well there will be a grace period of about a week further for the rest of This group to go through and and review the document and make any changes and then after the 30th That's when we engage the CNCF to provide the PDF beautification of the document listen At that point once they give us that copy back will have to be very Particular and going through and verifying all the footnote numbers line up all the URLs are correct And that we're not Relinking to other parts of the Google document the last one we had we had some URL errors that just linked to a Google doc that no longer existed Right kind of Excellent So since editing is limited right now So I see there's a section assigned to Nisha from March 26 It's the sharing and exchanging S bombs doesn't have any content I Think we need to make a call and delete it or edit ourselves delete it Yeah, I think Anders gave me a heads up that he's not gonna be able to do one part. So I'm gonna delete that There's also a dangling section notes Fairly close to there right before these securing deployments And it has just bullet point notes that I think are Probably extraneous hopefully won't make it in the final document I think we're at the point now we have to be quite aggressive in that look if it's not in it's not in delete it unless you are personally gonna put it in right, I Guess I can make a suggestion to delete this stuff. It's there you go Okay Sounds good. All right. Excellent. I think we're good. All right. I should send it out in the next couple of hours Thanks, everyone. Thank you very much. Emily. Thank you All right Thanks, everyone. Is anything else we need to go through or we all done All done. Fantastic. Well, Cole. I'll leave you to your beautiful common quiet serene view behind you and It's just that a jealousy to be fair This is a good one. This time. This is nice. We're going over time by 20 minutes on himself. Exactly Exactly, right? All right, I'll give people times back their time back. Thanks a lot everyone. Cheers. Thank you everybody. Have a great weekend