 I'm Scott Rouse, I'm a body language expert and analyst and I train law enforcement in the military and interrogation in body language. I created the number one online body language course, body language tactics with Greg Hartley. Mark? I'm Mark Bowden. I'm an expert in human behavior and body language. I help people all over the world to stand out, win trust, gain credibility every time they communicate, including some of the leaders of the G7. Chase? Hey, I'm Chase Hughes. I did 20 years in the U.S. military, wrote the number one bestselling book on behavior profiling, persuasion, and influence. I train everyday people and intelligence agencies in the same. Greg? Greg Hartley. I'm a former Army interrogator, interrogation instructor, resistance to interrogation instructor. I've written 10 books on body language and behavior, put together this number one body language tactics course with Scott. And I spend most of my time on Wall Street and in corporate America. All right. Well, here's what everybody's been waiting on, Bill Gates. What we're going to do today is we're going to take a look at Bill Gates and we're going to take a look at his baseline first. And so when we get through his baseline, we'll go on to him being asked some questions of where his ethics are in question at that point. So Greg, why don't you tell us about the videos we're going to look at? Yeah, so the videos start way back when, when he's a young guy, I think he's in his 20s, you know, he had, remember, this is a guy who dropped out of school and became the second wealthiest man in America at the time of the first interview. And so they're talking to him about his future, whether he'll get married, whether they'll have kids, what is what kind of property you own. So you get good baseline of him then when he's just a kid. And then later we go into another set of videos where Anderson Cooper is asking him questions about ethical things like, Hey, did you do X? Did you do Y? Among those are the Epstein issue and an affair. He also gets asked questions by another interviewer around climate. And so what we're going to see is a progressive push to more complex problems. We start off with a simple, Hey, here's who I am. Then he talks about climate and how to solve it. It gets challenged on his political approach. Then we get to the hard question. So watch it cascade and you'll get to see who he is and him age. The cool thing here is I think what you really get the opportunity to see is the organism to do what makes the organism successful. It's the same guy as they're all wrapped up in age, wrinkles and hair. All right, you ready? Yeah. Here we go. You have to understand when you spend your time thinking intensely about a field from a very young age, which in my case is, you know, I was 13 or 14 when I started to get involved. That's where you can do great things is because your mind has really gotten into it. You you understand it. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, we see this is what we're doing here showing you a baseline. And when we say the word baseline, let's unpack that really quick. What we're talking about is behavior during either a known truth or behavior during low likelihood of deception scenarios. So that's what we're looking at here. We see a couple of things. This timeline reference is from his left to right, which is very common. His eye movement tends to default to around hour or your 11 o'clock as you're looking at it. His belt is on backwards for a man. It's on backwards, kind of what speaks to a little bit of, you know, the type of person that he is. Not sure if it's relevant. I just thought I'd mention it. But there's a natural shift of pronoun. And this is more common when we're shifting. I'm telling a story. I'm saying, I and somehow I shift to you. This is common when someone's trying to make you understand their position and their thought process. And it's totally unconscious. It's not a conscious thing that he's doing here. But he uses his right hand for most of these gestures. And his left hand is serving as some kind of an anchor point holding him onto the chair. I'll leave it at that. Scott, what do you got? All right. His blink rate is low, obviously, because he's not under any stress here. He's just talking to this woman about how cool he is and how much money he's made. So he's feeling pretty good about himself. His breathing rate is fairly normal. Everything looks good. He's not breathing heavy. His when he is speaking voice is just loping right along, just talking, telling what's going on. His illustrators, like you said, chase, or we're using his right hand. And his head as well, obviously, because he does that a lot, is very smooth. Really smooth as you go along around here. And he also touches his mouth. And Joe Navarro did an excellent article on that this week. You can find it on Twitter, Joe Navarro, about why we touch our face. And he gets exactly into what just happened just then. So I won't go that deep into it. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so Chase, one of the things you point out, most men do their belt a certain way. I would say you and I are jaundiced in what we think of how people do their belt, because we're both military. And we've been taught there's always a right way. Your bootlaces go. There's always a right way. Everything goes. But imagine you're 13, you drop out of school. You're 15, you drop out of school. You become one of the most powerful people on earth. You might not even care how other people wear things. So while we are very distinct, left or right, we always do things a certain way. He probably didn't grow up that way and certainly didn't have military to affect him. So different way of thinking maybe. He's got really poor posture, which the military would fix as well. That kind of sitting in the chair like this and you might think he's shrinking. No, he's just kind of nerdy and that's his thing. He's the second richest guy in the world or in the U.S. at this point. And he's not, I don't know how old he is because it's hard to tell with his grooming style and that kind of thing. But his cadence is great. He's punctuating, he's illustrating his words, his hands, everything are in one path. If you were drawing, we always talk about if you were doing a polygraph and they're tracing three things they should match, in his case, his language, his punctuation with his hands, his moving his head, all of that are flowing very congruently. He breaks eye contact to think, but he makes eye contact and he clearly is aware that eye contact is important. So I see it as pretty clean, pretty easy to follow and unsophisticated body language, just easy. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so look, we get asked a lot of questions around either Asperger's or autism spectrum. And for Bill Gates, there are some ideas that he may well be on the autism spectrum somewhere. We don't have a diagnosis for him. I don't know whether he's had the diagnosis if he has whether he's publishing that. But in that spectrum, you do find elements of not following the norms of certain social situations like how you might wear your belt or what clothes you might wear, what might be socially acceptable, those norms are broken. Maybe as we go through this, I'll point out some things that for some may fit him into somewhere on that spectrum. Not making a diagnosis at all. That's just not within my credible boundaries. But anyway, let's look out for those elements. What have we got in the baseline here? Well, elongation of the words on great things and mind. So let's say that those are positive things. Great things and mind are positives and he elongates them. So maybe we can take it as a baseline that he will elongate words that are of positive importance to him. So that's what I'm gonna do on this baseline. He's right back in his chair. It may look to you, certainly looks to me, kind of again, socially out of the norm for, hey, you just got yourself a really great interview. I'd be a little more forward in my chair. You know, I would, but I'm not him and most people on the planet are not him. And there is this possibility that he shares with many people out there, a neurotype, which means he won't quite be able to judge the relevance or the level of severity in a situation. We've got his baton gestures with just one of his hands and they're really on point. So he's really sure about what he's saying. We've got that grip on the chair as well. Interesting, we might often think this grip on the chair might be something about stress, but he doesn't seem to be under stress. So it seems that, I think it was Chase, he was saying he kind of anchors himself there. And I think that's a really good description of probably what's happening there. There's one hand to anchor him and this other hand is kind of off in a very fluid nature. We see on great things, his eyes go up and I don't know whether it's to the right or the left because I don't have the brain to be able to work that stuff out. And I did write myself a little note, trying to do where he's right and left. And I changed it three times because even after three times, I couldn't work out what was left or right. But I would say this, that wherever he's going up on that where he talks about great things, I'm gonna class that as he's in vision. He's doing something really creative. He's looking really forward into the future. He doesn't have facts around that. That's something in the future that he has to create. So I'm gonna keep that as the baseline. He goes down when he's self-reflective. I think Greg often calls that, what do you call that, Deguin? Internal dialogue. Internal dialogue, thank you, yeah. So I would call that self-reflection. He's thinking about himself. And yeah, Greg would call it internal dialogue because he's probably got a little voice in his head talking about him and having a conversation. He seems to have no problem making really strong eye contact. Again, so that might really go against some people's idea around ASD, around the autistic spectrum. He's got no problem making really good strong eye contact. And I think, you know, just picking up on what Chase said there, you have to understand. He's using directive speech there to be more polite. You would say, one has to understand. So I'm not telling you that you need to understand this. In this, probably unconsciously, he has this mindset of telling people what they need to know about the situation. Greg, that's all I got on that one. You have to understand when you spend your time thinking intensely about a field from a very young age, which in my case is 13 or 14 when I started to get involved. That's where you can do great things because your mind has really gotten into it. You understand it. How's it look? We're good. I've got a house in the lake. I can go water skiing. I can swim. I play tennis. Got a beach place out at Hood Canal that I can take a sea plane out to from time to time. As for someone to share his multimillion dollar love nest, yes, the second wealthiest person in the country is looking at his schedules and planning to squeeze in a romantic partnership. When you take a 10-year timeframe, it's fair to say I think it's a good chance. Very good chance I'd be married by then. How about children? By then I'd probably be having a kid or two, sure. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, this is a really good baseline for him because they ask him questions about what do you do and he goes over and does, we're talking internal dialogue, but he's doing making a mental list of things to walk through. And then he walks through those and then he gets to a point where he's doing one shoulder shake and that one shoulder is not doubt in this case. It's what else am I gonna say? What else? Because he's got a list of things he goes through. He breaks eye contact to consider his answer and that's thoughtful. Goes back to eye contact. I'm with you, Mark. We typically think of people who are somewhere on the spectrum with having eye contact issues. Somebody will tell us we've missed something there, but this is a great eye contact, actually the right amount at the right time to emphasize what he's thinking. He does a little slightly amused smile. When he's thinking, what else am I gonna say? And then they ask him about, what else do you spend your time on? And he does the nervous smile of, I read a lot of books. I know that sounds geeky, but I read a lot of books. You can see the smile there. And then when they ask him about being married, he goes to a, well, I'm thinking about this. You know, it's 10 years, that's a reasonable thing. Well, you have kids, the opposite side of the brain. Well, I'm gonna imagine kids. So cool to see his eyes moving around his head, normal baseline. The other thing is we're gonna see that nervous laugh come back later with him. We're gonna see a lot of difference in his posture as he ages, but still all those original things are going on in his early twenties are still there as we move forward. Chase, what do you got? Agree with you. You had a lot of what I've got here. One cool thing I think that we see here is that when he's talking about this 10 year timeframe, his eyes move to about one o'clock on your clock as you're gonna see it. And this suggests visual recall. And I think this is interesting that you won't see visual recall when they're talking about a potential future relationship in most people. And I think legitimately he's mapped out this process in some kind of a graph or an Excel spreadsheet somewhere. If Excel existed back then, I'm not sure. It did, they show it. He was billed again. Yeah. And he's got a comfortable smile, a relaxed face. He has no trouble making eye contact with the interviewer. And I totally agree on the single shrugs. Just like I've listed a whole bunch of stuff here. I'm not sure what else you might wanna hear. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, I couldn't agree more. So the marriage piece is at the side of his mind which is about planning. So he's already thinks there's a plan around that. I totally agree. The kids then go to the other side. Again, I'm not gonna get into left or right or clocks at all. But it goes dramatically to the other side. So that is something he doesn't have a picture of right now. He's having to create one there. And then I would suggest a great to see that. And there's some self reflection again. Some internal dialogue as Greg would call it in the center there. He lists things he has or things he could do. Not things he's done or things he's doing. Things he has, I've got these and I could do this. Doesn't mean he is doing them, he could do them. So it seems like he has this mindset where he's very much about things, very much about things that he has and making lists of things that he has. Again, there's a neurotype that fits that quite well. This is not extreme at any level, by the way. But it's there in the background. He doesn't really talk about relationships at all. What do you do? Well, here's the things that I have and here's the things I could do. But nothing about relationships. He needs prompting on the relationships piece there. Look, here's the thing that stands out for me. If you watch that little bit of kind of black and white film in between that they've used to kind of, I don't know, segue between the two elements, you'll see him rocking forwards and backwards. You'll see that quite pronounced. Again, many people might think that is self-stimulation behavior. I think it could well be. I think it could well be again, which may well put him somewhere on the ASD spectrum. Again, just a little point in there that we might want to look out for. Do we see that in other parts of the interviews that are coming up? There, that's what I got for you on that one. Scott, what do you got? All right, I agree with all you guys. And one thing I think it's interesting going back to that shoulder pop or I guess it's left shoulder pop is that it becomes from when he's younger, 20 then these ones we see later on, we see a big difference in just the one little dink right there. Man, it's going off like fireworks a lot of the time. And for good reason at some places and for other points in other places, it's just firing off. It's just one thing he does all the time. So if we didn't have this baseline to look at, you might look at the first, when he's under questioning about something that's not good, then you may see that left shoulder and go, ah, he's not being honest about, that's why we know there are no absolutes in body language. That's so important to remember because people see that and say, look at that left shoulder, a single shoulder shrug. Man, it's going off over there. That means he's lying. No, it doesn't. Obviously it doesn't. Cause what is he lying about this other stuff he's doing? Is the second risqué on the whole wide world. At that point, I'd be doing that too. If I had all that money, Mark, I'd be going, I've got almost a billion dollars. I got almost a billion dollars. Plus I wouldn't talk to you guys. Yeah, plus I wouldn't talk to you guys that have an island. If you want to talk to me, you couldn't text me, you had to come to the island and talk to me. We know how that turns out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no kidding. No kidding. The way of the future. Yeah. So another thing that I thought was interesting, the only time he really uses his whole body in movement in this, in his baseline, at this point is when he's saying yes to someone, he's talking about the kids and he's saying, I can see that happen. Cause he's in full agreement with, he can see kids in the future. Cause his whole body is not always his head going. Yes, his whole body moves as well. And that's really the only time we see it in this thing in his base line so far and uses his whole body. That's going to change as we go down the road here a little bit. All right. I think that's, that's all I got. I've got a house in the lake. I can go water skiing. I can swim. I play tennis. Got a beach place out at Hood Canal that I can take a sea plane out to from time to time. As for someone to share his multimillion dollar love list, yes, the second wealthiest person in the country is looking at his schedule and planning to squeeze in a romantic partnership. When you take a 10 year timeframe, it's fair to say I, I think it's, there's a good chance, very good chance I'd be married by then. Maybe. By then I'd probably be having a kid or two. Sure. Be good? Yeah. Let's move. Now you say we have no choice but to get to zero from 51 billion tons a year. And I know you're optimistic. You say it'll be hard. But I want to hear from Bill Gates the realist. Like how likely is it that we get to zero? Is there a percentage you can give me? Well, unless the younger generation adopts this as the moral cause that's important to them beyond their individual success. And they're very loud about that in all the rich countries and across multiple political parties. Unless we have that, that's always putting it first on the agenda that I don't think we'll meet 2050. But I do see signs that that's coming into place. What cause could be more important than preserving livability of the earth and these natural ecosystems? So my role was simply to say, yes, this goal is a good one, although very, very hard. And then talk about how we accelerate the innovation and make people realize that because we're trying to get to zero it's every sector of emission. And there's been a tendency to focus on two of the five electricity and transport but kind of ignore agriculture and buildings and then manufacturing, including cement and steel. So it's a, it's hopefully a dose of realism for anyone who thought it was easy, but also a roadmap to help people who think it's impossible to see that it is possible. All right, Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so notice when he releases his hands, just like me, he gets really demonstrative, really big with his gestures. He's up in passion, the passion playing up here, so chest height, really excited. We'll see him later on get up into the ecstatic area as well. Here's what he's learned now is that I think what he does is he folds his arms in order to stop the gesticulation because he knows it will get very illustrative and probably somebody at some point has said, hey, you know, your hands move around, you look a bit like some kind of, you know, professor of some sort. We don't think it plays optically particularly well for your brand. I'm not sure whether that's true. I kind of quite like how big he is, but then, you know, look at me. So I kind of quite like that. But here's what I noticed when he does then kind of pull himself back, let's say, you know, straight jacket himself a little bit for one of a better metaphor. You'll see, you know, the finger starts moving, he finds it hard to kind of hold himself down. He wants to kind of burst out. And that to me means that he's being passionate about what he's talking about. He's truly passionate about this. We get elongation of language on loud about that, on the word cause, on the word every, as into every sector. We see the things that he's really positive and big about would make the difference here. A bit of chewing on the side of his mouth that often denotes anxiety. So there's this big play between certain amounts of anxiety going on around this and the ability to be massive and demonstrative. And you'll see, you know, his fingers widen. He's very confident about what he's saying. So look, you know, I would say in this video here, we've got somebody very clearly passionate about what they're talking about. I don't think there's really any level of deceit going on here. It's just somebody super passionate. The interesting thing is somebody at some point or he has gone, I don't think I should move so much. And yeah, that's what I want to say is a lot of the shoulders that we're then about to see in other videos is really about him now starting to illustrate with his shoulders in all kinds of ways. So again, Scott, to your point of, people will say this about the shoulders. It's like, no, all bets are off around, I would say, generally around shoulders from now on. Chase, what do you got on this one? Yeah, I agree. We had a note on here. Ask Mark what all these planes are that are on here. So it starts out with this tight lip facial expression. Not sure what that is, because we're looking at the start of the clip, but he's making a point on a couple of things using his eyebrows, especially when he says political parties. And that's maybe a point of contention for him. When he's saying there's signs that the plan is coming into place, there's a single shrug, and then it's followed by a few other shrugs because I think it's an important cause to him. And when we say that the double shoulder shrug is kind of like an apology, this is him saying, I'm sorry, it's not what people want to hear, but it's the truth. And so that's still kind of an apology. So when he's saying we're gonna accelerate the innovation, he's going from his left to right, which is a great timeline illustrator, which is on his baseline, on most people's baseline actually. And when somebody crosses their arms, it's meaningless. I guarantee you can go on LinkedIn or wherever and find all these articles about what they mean. It's meaningless. The biggest thing you can look for is what the hands are doing when the arms are crossed. Are they palms against the body? But we see him doing this thing Mark was talking about where his finger kind of takes the place of the hands doing the gesturing down here. And I think that's all we're seeing here. There's not a whole lot. So we're seeing no deceptive behavior and no extremely stressful behavior here whatsoever. Scott? All right. Well, I'm gonna coin something today and it's called finished face. And at the very beginning of this, we see him coming out of his finished face. When he finishes, he'll say something and go like that. Like Chase does in that video of what was that song where we did that? Oh yeah. It was a full house theme song. Oh yeah. Okay, I'm gonna cut that out because that didn't go as well as I hoped it would. Anyway, so that's his finished face. Now, when he does, we see at the beginning of this because he's coming out of the question and then he gets started again. Then we see his jaw cut over to the side. I think he's goofing around with something with his tongue up in this side of his mouth. I think that's what's happening. But at the same time, I think it shows focus or it suggests focus at that point. And one more time, this is such a great example of his baseline, these three videos we've seen up at this point because things are getting ready to change here in just a few minutes. And he's also preparing with that chin over to the side. He's taking the information but he's seeing if he's running through his mind. So I got something prepared for this, an answer prepared for this. And at this point, he's just delivering information just lulling right along. He's loping right along. Everything's going great. And one time I was, I had a gig where I was looking at these videos of people who were looking at someone in a financial situation and that he was suspected of taking some money and it was a deposition. And I said, I can't tell what is going on with this and I sent it to Greg. See if you remember this Greg, this was a few years ago. And he said, oh, okay, I see that's his teaching face. I said, what? He said, that's his teaching face. Cause when he really is going to tell you something he starts getting in there to the side and starts telling you, he starts teaching you. He's telling you the way things are. I thought, ah, that's brilliant. I never thought of it that way. But that's exactly what's happening. So there's one for you, Greg. Cause I haven't ever heard anybody say that but you but I use it in training and stuff. But I called it, I called it their teaching face. And so we see him for the first time here using his teaching face where he's, he's looking at you from the side and he's coming in and giving that head jut forward as an illustrator. Then his mouth, let's see what, I just will pass all that. Let's see. But he's pretty much locked down until he starts talking about himself. That's when things really get to going. But other than that, he's sort of locked down. He's got his arms crossed and everything's fine. And I agree with you guys. Most of the time crossed arms means nothing. And Mark, I didn't think about it. Somebody probably told him to do this so he doesn't start flailing his arms everywhere because in a little while he stopped doing that. And boy does it look weird. It looks so, it looks like he has crab hands or something. He starts doing his fingers real weird. But I think his arms are crossed for comfort. And I'm gonna add that thing you were talking about, Mark, to that as well. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so a lot of the same things but I'm gonna add a little bit different, a little bit different nuance to it. So I think he has a resting lip compression as a baseline. Every time I see him, he's doing this. It's a matter of whether he has a negative or positive face associated with that. So you look for him in that resting, you're calling it finished face, what I'm saying is all I see is just that, that's what he does. He's learned to do it and you have to look for what the rest of his face is doing. So start paying attention as we walk through this. In the beginning of this, he has a very positive face because she's asking about something he knows and you see his face light up. See a little smile come out of that resting compression and then he moves into his telling. What you're calling with a whole teaching face thing, Scott, the same thing. As he walks into this, there's an interesting part, pay attention when he is asking for approval, when he's telling you a topic that you need to weigh in on, watch his forehead, it's up. And then when he switches gears to tell you how it needs to be, his forehead drops down. Really interesting to watch because it's gonna show in his baseline the rest of the way. When he gets to the difficulty at the very end of this thing and he shows that something's tough, you see the furrowing of the brow. That's not grief, that's just furrowing of the brow. But he's telling you how this whole thing works out. That's a powerful thing in his body language messaging. And I love the fact we're all on the same thing about his arms. When I teach body language to people, I always teach, if you're reading the arms and you're missing the face that goes with it, you're missing the whole message. It's like learning verbs in a foreign language and thinking you understand it. This is a complex language and all the pieces need to come together. He is very clear in that he's telling, telling, telling. But some of the things he's telling are so complex and so painful that he's asking you, do you get it? Do you get it? Do you get it? And then at the end, back to that resting compressed face. And I'll just leave it at that because you covered everything else. I think we'll see it play out through the rest of these videos. Now you say we have no choice but to get to zero from 51 billion tons a year. And I know you're optimistic. You say it'll be hard. But I wanna hear from Bill Gates the realist. How likely is it that we get to zero? Is there a percentage you can give me? Well, unless the younger generation adopts this as the moral cause that's important to them beyond their individual success. And they're very loud about that in all the rich countries and across multiple political parties. Unless we have that that's always putting it first on the agenda then I don't think we'll meet 2050. But I do see signs that that's coming into place. I mean, what cause could be more important than preserving livability of the earth and these natural ecosystems. So my role was simply to say, yes, this goal is a good one, although very, very hard. And then talk about how we accelerate the innovation and make people realize that because we're trying to get to zero, it's every sector of emission. And there's been a tendency to focus on two of the five electricity and transport but kind of ignore agriculture and buildings and then manufacturing, including cement and steel. So it's a, it's hopefully a dose of realism for anyone who thought it was easy but also a roadmap to help people who think it's impossible to see that it is possible. Excellent. All right, let's move. Some of the critics have said you don't focus on the political obstacles enough when it comes to climate change. You're solely focusing on the technology here. If there's one thing that the Biden administration could do to help solve this problem faster that would really make a difference. What would that one thing be? Well, the long lead time item to drive innovation is R&D funded by the government. And in the health space, the US has done a brilliant job with the National Institute of Health that's driven breakthroughs and creates private companies that take that and offer products to the US and to the world. The energy R&D budget is way too small, well below the health level. So that's got to go up dramatically. Some of the tax credits to help the new product categories like green, steel and cement or energy storage, we need to apply that tactic there. And then the government's a big purchaser. And they combine more of these green products. And so we really need to get going and push the innovation and push the demand side for those innovations as well. Chase, what do you got? As Gates gets this question, he goes back to his default kind of this baseline arm cross behavior. There's lip retraction as the reporter is finishing this question which suggests a need for reassurance. And I think shoulder shrugging is very common in people who default to arm cross behavior because that's one of the only gestures they've got. And his eye home for this topic in this interview while still truthful, so it's a different topic. And Greg has some kind of great illustrations on how to make you look in different directions based on different topics. This topic, his home is around five o'clock which is genuine and truthful. And the forehead movement here, there's a great forehead movement in the middle of this. And Greg, I would love to understand maybe what we're seeing here. Maybe it's grief, disagreement, shame, anger, who knows? Greg? Yeah, I don't think I see any of that. What I think I see is that teaching brow again, he uses his brow so much that when he's asking you for approval, what he's talking about here is pretty complex. This is a mess. And so he's talking about taking over the world in effect. When you're talking about concrete production, steel production, all of that, cows, everything in our world has to change. That's a complex thing. And when he raises his brow to talk about it and then there's concern before he tells this has to happen, I think what we're seeing is those emotions playing out in his forehead. He also does a hell of a lot of eye contact even when he turns to an oblique, he doesn't break eye contact. Those two things for me, Mark, we're talking about where's he on the spectrum? High forehead involvement, lots of oblique eye contact. That feels awkward for me to say that he's somewhere on the spectrum. No expert in that, only my exposure has been working on the movie Neuro Typical with Adam Larson and the folks there didn't have a lot of forehead involvement. But it certainly looks a little odd, but Chase, what you're seeing, I think is that. You're seeing him communicating what he's thinking with his forehead and pulling his eyes as he looks away, but his head looks away, not the other. At the beginning, there's a deep swallow, light increase in blink rate, the eye contact at oblique, and then he goes to what you just said, down to five. He's in internal conversation as he prepares for what to say. Interestingly, you can tell this is a businessman. He waits until she's finished with the whole question so he doesn't answer half the question and then find out. This is how chairman, if you got a guy who's a CEO who doesn't understand that and answers half the question, then gets stumbled on the next one, he only does that one time and he learns from it. So you can tell this guy's done business. Every time that he's trying to get her to be with him, see that forehead rise. It's really interesting to watch. And then when he starts to instruct his forehead, he goes smooth and then his brow drops down. There's no wrinkle, it's just kind of pulled down. He does illustrate with his body and I think you're dead on Chase. If I tie your arms, you're gonna do something. And Mark, you're probably right. Somebody's told him don't do whatever it is because he looks geeky, you know? And when I was young, geeky was kind of an insult. These days, I don't think it's as big an insult to people as it was then. So all that weird hand stuff he does and all that, I don't think is there. At the very end, his lips go back to that compressed thing and more kind of a smug look, more of a negative thing is I'm finished with my sentence. Scott, what do you got? All right, great. Yeah, I agree with you guys 100%. I think at the top of that, I think he just took a drink of water. I think that's what happens. So we see him coming back this way, his hand goes down, he takes this weird swallowing thing happening. Again, we see his teaching face, which you guys covered. You guys so far have covered most everything. Lots of shoulder pop and that's also from his baseline. So I have to mark off most everything I had down as you guys nailed it. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so Greg, I agree. If he is on the spectrum somewhere and he more likely be towards the high functioning, what people in the past called aspergers, if he is there, he's certainly got really good at countermeasuring that. And I think his countermeasure is that he will, he will moderate himself by folding his arms, also doing lip compression, because I think what happens at the start of this is just as you said, it's a really complex problem that's being dealt with here and he's got an answer. And he's got an answer to this before the questioner has even finished their question. And so he has to moderate himself and stop himself jumping right in there, his arms coming up and him telling everybody on the planet exactly what they need to do to fix this thing. Because he's somebody who has experience of building entities that are now across the world and have challenged and changed the world that we're in. So he's certainly somebody who feels like he has answers around this. We see him moderate as well, his rocking motion that he starts to have. He has it a bit where he doesn't quite know the answer. He's got a word for it, he does, ah, and we start to see him moving backwards and forwards there as well. There, that's, oh yeah, and look, yeah, lots of, again, lots of shoulder movement. I mean, so much that really I kind of go, I don't even want to deconstruct that and maybe that's lazy or maybe it's simply because, look, all this shoulder movement simply comes from the fact that he's got nothing left to illustrate with and he wiggles those shoulders around. There, that's what I got for you. Some of the critics have said you don't focus on the political obstacles enough when it comes to climate change. You're solely focusing on the technology here. If there's one thing that the Biden administration could do to help solve this problem faster that would really make a difference. What would that one thing be? Well, the long lead time item to drive innovation is R&D funded by the government. And in the health space, the US has done a brilliant job with the National Institute of Health that's driven breakthroughs and creates private companies that take that and offer products to the US and to the world. The energy R&D budget is way too small, well below the health level. So that's got to go up dramatically. Some of the tax credits to help the new product categories like green steel and cement or energy storage, we need to apply that tactic there. And then the government's a big purchaser and they combine more of these green products. And so we really need to get going and push the innovation and push the demand side for those innovations as well. Excellent. Obviously, May you and your wife, Melinda, announced you were ending your marriage after 27 years. On Monday this week, the divorce was finalized on a personal level. How are you doing? It's definitely a very sad milestone. And Melinda's a great person and that partnership that we had coming to an end is a source of great personal sadness. We are communicating and working at the foundation and so that partnership we're gonna try and continue. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so this is a great example of watching a baseline change. This becomes an emotional issue for the guy and it's really easy to see. Look at his eyes are cast down. He's got that lip compression but it's a negative lip compression. We said his resting face has that. There's no amusement in his face whatsoever. You don't see any light or happiness or rise through this part of his face as his cheeks don't rise. When he breaks eye contact away, most of the time in normal baseline, he breaks away over here. He breaks down almost exclusively. And even when he's looking straight ahead, his gaze is not engaged. If you look, he's staring into the backs of his eyes. That's all he's doing. There's no contact as he's internalizing what he's dealing with. His cadence has slowed. If you think about a person talking like da-da-da-da-da-da-da mark your theater days, da-da-da-da-da-da and the other person picks it up, there's none of that. It's just slow and lifeless. His volume is lower. He's gravelly. There's sadness as you see his brow tips rise, the center of his brows rise. And you even see a little bit of an arch in here where we refer to that as a grief muscle, which is an arch of the forehead trying to rise at the same time other muscles are doing that. Finally, at the end, there's another lip compression and it's a negative flat face. That's what I got. Scott, what do you got? All right, I agree with you. And he's sitting there with his arms in front of him. And when he talks about Melinda for the first time and talks about she's a good person or whatever, we see what is referred to as anti-gravity move there. I think Joan of Oro was the one that nailed that one. Joan of Oro, yeah, thank you. Yeah. At this point his shoulder pop is almost a tick and it's just going off on there. It sounds like popcorn's going so quick. His blink rate overall is normal though, but I think that comes with the emotional part of it. His limbic system is like set off, so he's jumping everywhere and he's on fire and his eyes are getting all dry and he's blinking a lot. He's just moving around a lot because it bothers him emotionally. He ends up with finished mouth again. And then you're right, Greg, his cadence is completely different here. There's no loping. It's all sort of broken up in there. It slows down, speeds up a little bit and his tone is a little lower as well as his volume in that. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so I think when many people watch this, you might be thinking that he's quite an emotional here because look how we're having to look at the detail around everything that he's saying and look at the quality of detail we're looking at to say, hey, this is quite emotional for him. And yet what you're not hearing is some of the musicality in the voice that you'd expect with heightened emotions. You're seeing nothing in the face that you might expect with heightened emotions. And so we've got to look at the detail outside of his baseline around this. We've even had Greg say, hey, his face at one point is quite flat. Well, again, in ASD you have something called flat affect, which is where the face really does nothing in a situation that most of us would go, hey, we really expect your face to do a little bit more during this. So again, some of what we're seeing may really seem outside of the norms. Let me just fill it in a little bit more. The way it comes across as emotional to me, he says with great and puts a long elongation on great personal sadness. Now, if anybody just said, well, you know, it's great personal sadness, most of us would go, well, that's not very emotional, but the very fact that he elongates the great says that that really has meaning for him. It is something that is great. And we've got to expect that the personal sadness fits in with that as well. I'm going to discount again all the shrugs that we see again, because he's counter measured himself and he's moderating himself. So we're going to have all kinds of stuff going on. Because if I didn't do that, I would have sad milestone, double shrug and Melinda's a great person, single shrug. And now I'd be down a whole kind of wormhole of, well, maybe he doesn't really think Melinda is a great person. I mean, it would be so easy to go down that rabbit hole if you haven't seen all the rest of his baseline where the moment he does this, these shoulders are all over the place in all kinds of situations. So I'm going to negate that. There, that's all I've got on that one. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, I'll just cover what, whatever else I've got here. The blink rate in this video is seven times higher than his baseline once the question starts coming out. And it's just once the question starts coming out. So we're, what we're measuring here, when people say, here's a magazine article called 10 signs of deception, 25 ways to spot a liar. Here's the body language signals of lies. They don't exist. They do not exist. We measure stress and we're seeing stress, which we would expect to see here. There's no other signs of what we would say indicates a lot of deception here because we're looking for a pile of indicators, not just one or two. His lips are held tight throughout the question from Anderson, the interviewer, and that's just his face. And we know that he defaults to that face and he defaults to this arm cross behavior. So what we said just a second ago was that somebody who crosses their arms regularly develops a habit of gesturing more with their shoulders, which would mean in the absence of the arm cross, the shoulder habit still exists. So I do not think that they have to be co-related all the time. So there's some emotional accessing with his eyes. He's looking downward before and during the beginning of his answer. And when we're talking about these eye-accessing cues, Greg can describe this at length. Greg actually pushed me over to a convert. I've always kind of known there was something there, but I think Greg converted me. And the creators of this technique, it's called NLP Eye-Accessing Cues, already acknowledged that it's an inaccurate thing at best. They also acknowledged that it is not, nor was it ever to be used for detecting deception. And I just wanted to put that out there. But I think it's interesting from the viewpoint of his personality that he refers to the divorce as a milestone, not a tragedy, not an event, not an occurrence, just kind of a milestone. And when we say the word milestone, this is usually to indicate the beginning of some new chapter. I like that he used this instead of the tragedy example or something else. I also think it speaks to his business thing. And Mark, I agree when he said, he's talking about Melinda as a great person. We have a single shoulder shrug. We also have an upward shift in tone. And one of the only ones here. But then again, we add those up. If you just wanna use a metric system, the behavioral table of elements, he only scored an eight. That's not even close to the score of likely deception. So Mark, I absolutely agree with you. That's all I got. Obviously, May you and your wife, Melinda, announced you were ending your marriage after 27 years. On Monday, this week, the divorce was finalized just on a personal level. How are you doing? It's definitely a very sad milestone. And Melinda's a great person. And that partnership that we had coming to an end is a source of great personal sadness. We are communicating and working at the foundation. And so that partnership, we're gonna try and continue. Let's move along. The foundation said that there's gonna be like a two year trial period to see that if you two can continue to work together, that's your hope that you can't. Yeah, Melinda has incredible strengths that she brings that help the foundation be better. We've always enjoyed our work together. Two of us can go out and work with leaders and help build the organization. So that would be definitely the best thing for the foundation. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so he goes up. The moment is in the moment, he unleashes, he stops moderating himself, up comes his hands and he talks about the two of us can go out. It's quite elongated again. So this is, he can't suppress himself anymore. He's got to tell us about this. And we see him do this gesture here, which suggests up in thought that there's one type of thought over here and another type of thought over here. And you can do it yourself. Just turn your head and try and do some maths over here and turn your head and try and imagine something over here. You'll find one turn of the head feels easier than the other. It just feels, you know, more smooth to be on one side for one type of operation and one side for the other type of operation. So what he's kind of telling us there is we have very different roles. We take, we're one head and we have very different thinking styles. And so he doesn't use a lot of metaphor. He doesn't use a lot of simile. Again, that's his mindset, not big for the poetry of language. But we see when he unleashes his hands, he's really big for the poetry of movement and trying to literally illustrate to us, literally paint the picture for us of how the world is for him. So I just think it's a lovely example of that and best for the foundation. They're kind of interesting there that, you know, I guess that's the business, the company side of him. And really, you know, again, he's got a way better spin doctor than Como, who we were with, you know, last week, as many of you will remember, you know, the messaging on this is really, really good. Again, he's going back to the good of the bigger idea rather than our good or her good. It's always about a bigger picture, a bigger overarching entity that's more important. Scott, what do you got on this one? All right, so far, everything looks good. Everything looks normal. He doesn't look like he's too stressed. His blink rate's normal. His breathing rate at this point is fairly normal. And I think you're right. If he sort of gets excited when he starts talking about her, that's when things sort of cut loose, which is normal and natural. So we know so far when he talks about anything emotional, that's when the hands come up when he's at this point anyway. They're not quite to the freaky geeking out thing yet, but they're on the way as he gets older. As time passes, you covered a lot of stuff I got. Chase, what do you got? I know a lot of people are gonna put this in the comments, but I know you won't, because if you've been watching this channel for a while, you already know how to read behavior, but I'm gonna cover it right now. Gates shakes his head at the beginning of this. But this is where someone's trying to convey, this is probably what you might be thinking might be wrong. And that's what we're seeing here. And we see this, his arms get unleashed, Mark, it was a brilliant description of that. But he has a genuine smile on his face when he's talking about Melinda's strengths to help the foundation and to help the foundation be better. And right, there's an eyebrow flash. They're asking for social agreement with his statement when he's saying, help this foundation be better. And when he's saying, enjoyed our work together, there's something on his forehead right there. I'll let Greg get into that. Greg probably explained that. When he's saying that two of us can go out and do our work, I think it's interesting to note that his hands separate out in two different directions. I think it's just indicative of the situation. And when he's saying, this is the best thing for the foundation, he is genuine and honest, and we see another one of those big shoulder shrugs, guess what, even if it exactly meant that he has a lack of confidence in what he's saying, it's still just a four on the behavioral table of elements. So we're looking for clusters and there aren't any for deception right there. Greg? Yeah, go back, turn off the sound and watch this message and tell me what you see. You don't need us to tell you that it's a positive message in the middle of a negative thing. And Mark, you had, they spring out, I said illustrators come out of hiding at the appropriate time. His hands come up, he's saying, look here and here, and you can clearly understand that. And Chase, I love you, you have the exactly the same thing I do. He has a genuine smile. You see the eyes engaged and his lip compression goes to positive at the end. That resting lip compression goes back to positive. We see him trying to, yeah, you said it. Every time he's trying to ask you to come along with him, his brow is up. When he's telling you, this is how it needs to work, his brows down. This is an easy one to follow. I think it shows that what he's saying is true in his mind and there we got it. That's all I got. The foundation said that there's gonna be like a two year trial period to see that if you two can continue to work together, that's your hope that you can't. But yeah, Melinda has incredible strengths that she brings that help the foundation be better. We always enjoyed our work together. Two of us can go out and work with leaders and help build the organization. So that would be definitely the best thing for the foundation. All right, let's move along. All right. The New York Times and Wall Street Journal both reported in recent months that Melinda was concerned about a relationship you had with Jeffrey Epstein who at the time you met him in 2011 had been already convicted of soliciting prostitution from a minor. The Times reported she hired divorce attorneys around the time in October 2019 when that contact with Epstein became public. Can you explain your relationship with Epstein? Did you have any concerns? Was there ever any concerns you had about it? Oh, certainly. You know, I had several dinners with him, you know, hoping that what he said about getting billions of philanthropy for global health through contacts that he had might emerge. You know, when it looked like that wasn't a real thing, that relationship ended, but it was a huge mistake to spend time with him, to give him the credibility of, you know, being there, there were lots of others in that same situation, but I made a mistake. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so starting off, he's got that resting positive face again. He starts off there and then he's internalizing the question. You'll see him looking kind of down to his left as he starts to predict what's coming. That's that internal voice again, Chase, that you're talking about when a person drops over into their lower left, they're typically internalizing or having an internal conversation. As soon as he starts to realize, hey, this is where this is going, this is New York Times, he choose the inside of his lip just to touch, which indicates anxiety. Mark, you saw it in his baseline earlier. I didn't say anything then because I knew it was coming up again, but great catch. His breathing goes up, his eyes go everywhere but the camera, which is not like him, by the way. And then, like I say, his blink rate is up for him. It's not really high compared to a lot of other people. I always talk about mood, meaning the canvas you paint on with all the rest of your body language, as being based on energy, direction, and focus. In this case, his energy is low. His focus is very sharp. It's all, he's moving his eyes around, but it's very internal. And all of that energy is going to internal. I count that embarrassment. Usually when a person has low energy, sharp focus, and internal, then I think that is an embarrassment. And then just before he answers, if you slow the video down, there's an eye close and he blocks at his eyes and then his energy goes back up. His cadence shift goes there. That shoulder goes again, but I think we all know that that's kind of his thing is he bobs his shoulders when he's talking and then he goes on to answer. What's interesting about this is I don't see a lot of grief or any of that kind of stuff in his face when he's answering the question. And he's answering the question legitimately saying, hey, I screwed up. Basically is what he says. So we'll go from there. Chase, what do you got? I think what's interesting to see here is that Anderson Cooper's blink rate is higher than Gates throughout the entire clip. And Gates' breathing shifts from his abdomen down here up into his chest right away when he starts hearing the subject of the question. If you look at a baby human sleeping or a sleeping animal, their abdomen will rise and fall and knock the chest. So we typically breathe into the chest once we're feeling more stress. While Gates is processing the question, he performs a TDS or transderivational search. You'll see the eyes move in many, many different directions. And this is very useful for sales persons, interrogators or a TV interviewer because vague language does two very specific things to us. Number one, it causes a lack of uncertainty. And number two, it causes the person to use their own beliefs and memories to fill the gaps in consistency and language. And the shoulder shrugging we're seeing throughout is simply what we're always talking about. It's his baseline, but he socializes the situation when he says there were a lot of other people in the same situation. But he does own the mistake. He does not socialize the mistake. He uses the word I made a mistake. So Gates is blink rates at like 71, then it decreases to 40. And then at the end of the video, it's around 24. Once he A is knowing that he's gonna get through this, B, I think he is more on message and he knows what he's going to deliver. And I just think that it's pretty honest and pretty forthright. Scott? All right. He scoots up just as the questions finishes up. He scoots up. He does this quite a few times. We see it in the following videos as well because he's sort of bracing himself because this is a biggie right here. And his answer is he's got the idea of the answer, but I don't think he's ever started, he's ever said it out loud. And one of the reasons you know that is because it's a little quieter. His tone is low, not just his volume. And it's a sounds awkward coming through there. And as he's asking the question, as he's listening to it, you can see the corners of his mouth slowly go down and down and down as he goes through that. As it's registering what's happening and what that this question is being asked. Again, his shoulder pop increase increases a whole lot. And like you were saying, Chase, he's breathing a lot deeper, a lot deeper and a lot heavier at this point. Not that he's in a panic. I think it's tough to get this guy at this point panicked. He's not showing you the things that would show panic for me anyway up to this point. And he ends up with that finished mouth. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so I think, I agree. Like we see an uptick in the blink rate and then it decreases quite dramatically. Anderson Cooper knows it, he knows it. This is the hotspot of the interview around this area. So, you know, there's just that excitement. I don't think pleasurable excitement, but there's an excitement around his, here's the moment that everybody's waiting for. Now, what do we get? I think we get him, you know, using his moderation countermeasures. And that's why we get the shoulders popping around. We don't get anything outside of his baseline. I think what we get is some, actually just some really good modern spin on this, which is I made a huge mistake. So just as you said, they're chase, I agree. He totally owns that. We get the elongation on others. So there is a deflection out to look, I'm not the only one. Others made this mistake as well. They thought this guy was a legitimate route to philanthropy. I think what's most interesting about this is that people will tend to go, yeah, but hang on, if there's the behavior of this person being one of the most successful people on the planet. I mean, arguably, you know, an incredible innovator, an incredible business builder, how come they can make such an awful mistake? How can you have both of those things? That's the thing that people find difficult to, I guess, square that circle. Well, there is in autism spectrum, and again, I'm not sure where he is, but there's some strong possibilities he's somewhere on that. Within that, you can have huge differentials in skill set, where you have somebody who is savant at one thing. I mean, just unbelievably brilliant at one thing and totally inept at another. And being able to tell socially what is right or wrong or true or false can be really, really difficult and the low end of the skill set to somebody who is brilliant at creating things, building things, technically managing things. And I think that's always difficult for us when we see somebody who is brilliant at something and then they fail miserably at something else. Well, you know, we want to create a nefariousness. We want to create a problem. We want to create, well, something bad is going on rather than just, hey, it's just a little bit of an edge of want of a better word, stupidity. It's just they're really smart at this and they're really not smart at this thing over here. I'm not saying he's either of those things. I'm just saying this is one of these situations where we always find it difficult to go, isn't it just the world where just somebody's really good at one thing, they really mess up in this thing over here. You know, Mark, one thing I would add is the bigger you are in life, the bigger your chances to really screw up. That's the thing. You know, the guy who is the Walmart greeter, nothing wrong with that job, he's not going to get the same opportunities to screw up as Bill Gates. That's the other thing to think about. Right. The New York Times and Wall Street Journal both reported in recent months that Melinda was concerned about a relationship you had with Jeffrey Epstein, who at the time you met him in 2011 had been already convicted of soliciting prostitution from a minor. The Times reported she hired divorce attorneys around the time in October 2019 when that contact with Epstein became public. Can you explain your relationship with Epstein? Did you have any concerns? Was there ever any concerns you had about it? Oh, certainly. You know, I had several dinners with him, hoping that what he said about getting billions of philanthropy for global health through contacts that he had might emerge. When it looked like that wasn't a real thing, that relationship ended, but it was a huge mistake to spend time with him, to give him the credibility of being there. There were lots of others in that same situation, but I made a mistake. Good. There's been a reporting about workplace behavior in the past. The New York Times reported six women from Microsoft, the company you created, your foundation, and the financial firm that manages your fortune said that your behavior at times created an uncomfortable workplace environment. I know a spokeswoman for you acknowledged you had an affair 20 years ago with a Microsoft employee that she said ended amicably. Do you have regrets? Well, certainly, I think everyone does, but it's a time of reflection, and at this point, I need to go forward. My work is very important to me. Within the family, we'll heal as best we can. And learn from what's happened. All right, welcome back to the Chaff and Redirect channel. Today we're talking to the original Worm on a Griddle. Mr. Greg Hartley, what do you got? Well, you know, it's funny because I was gonna say, if you're playing bingo, now is the time to get bingo, because there is a worm on a griddle. There is a Chaff and Redirect, and even further, I mean, you can think of a dozen things this guy is doing here, but it really boils down to this. He has hit fight or flight. You know, we talked about him not showing a lot of fight or flight. He's certainly got it now. This is Worm on a Griddle is the first thing I say. And he's gonna use a lot of PR words and therapy words that he's just spewing because he thinks they give him a chance to get away. If he just denied Epstein and was not distressed, he's certainly showing stress now. If I'm using those two as a meter, I'm not worried about Epstein because I see what he's like when he knows he's been busted for something and he's caught. He has smiles in the beginning. His lip compression goes away and he goes to a flat face with no lip compression at all halfway through this. His blink rates up. His respiration is so high, his head is bobbing as his breathing is in his chest and his head is moving. His head is getting lower and this is not because his arms are crossed because he's shrinking down in what we would call Turtling. At 22 seconds into this video, he sees the sides of his mouth down, his eyes wince. And I'm not certain, I don't see a little disgust in his nose when that happens. He knows he's in trouble and then he goes through. There's a dead stop pause before he answers and then his breathing rate goes back up through the roof and he says, um, everybody does. Well, no, we know that everybody doesn't feel regret and he does feel regret. Good for him. That's a good indicator. He's not a psychopath, right? So we know that. But then when he comes back, he goes, but both shoulders come up around the side of his head. That's when you get the Turtling thing and he looks helpless. He genuinely looks helpless. And then you get the request for approval as he raises eyebrows and that nervous smile from way back in the first video, a whole lot of teeth, a whole lot of back or second video when he's talking about, I read books and shows his teeth, all that's here. And now I'll give you a new one. His brain is a squirrel in the road at this point. He's just running for whatever gets him out of the way of tires. And he's still making eye contact, still making eye contact, which is kind of crazy, all things considered. So that's what I got. Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So yeah, I agree. He's the most stressed out that we've seen for all the reasons that you've got there. I think he does rely on some training that he's had because his spin on this conceptually is actually pretty good. He could deliver it better, knowing that he's had some help, which is expert help on this, because he takes the audience through a really strong, modern pattern. Basically the question here is one of a pattern of uncomfortable behavior. The question here is saying, look, there is a pattern out here. The world suggests that you consistently do some stuff which isn't right. And then he asks, have you got any regrets? He then says, as you say, everyone does. He socializes that. That would be the point where I would go, well, that's either true or not. What I'm interested in is, can you list the regrets that you have? So I want the list of regrets, not a conceptual idea. You see that his eyes do go off and he can't find a list and he can't imagine a list. So if he does have any regrets, it's possible he doesn't have the list of them and he can't kind of make them up on the spot to get himself out of this situation. Yeah, I don't think cognitive thought is his friend at this point. Right, exactly, exactly. So what he does is he does a good maneuver which is he chunks up to something conceptual. He says, everybody does, but we're gonna move forward and I've got important work. We're gonna heal, we're gonna learn. And so it does become quite lyrical at that point and what he's trying to do or his spinners helped him with is seduce the audience with something lyrical, romantic and forward-moving into emotional ideas and also ideas that really nobody can do as negative. What do you mean you're gonna learn? That's a terrible thing to do. No, you can't put him down for wanting to move forward, important work, healing and learning. Nobody can say that's the wrong thing to do. So quite a good performance technically, not well performed, kind of literally there I would say. Chase, what do you got on this one? Yep, agree with you guys. When Anderson is talking about workplace behavior in the past, I really believe you can see a little bit of contempt starting to creep in on the face and I don't think that's necessarily contempt for women who complained or whoever complained but probably for the media digging this up and making him pushing his nose into it again. And at the question, do you have regrets? Gates immediately goes into baseline accessing to one o'clock which suggests honesty to us. He has a single shrug around, I certainly think everyone does but he also that's part of his normal behavior but it's interesting that he says everyone does. He's socializing that all of us have done things which is called an interrogation training or intelligence training schools. They call this a judgment mitigation strategy. How am I going to spread this judgment out amongst people? And in social psychology, they call this diffusion of responsibility. So it's kind of the same thing. There's immediate mouth closure here that's a little bit faster than normal. I just think that's a stress behavior. And one fascinating fact about this clip here is that Anderson's blink rate is a 52. Bill Gates is at a 17 in this. Scott? All right, yeah, you guys are cleaning me out over here. Obviously, I'll cover parts of what everybody said but his breathing rate goes up because it's a little bit heavier at this point. He's not ready for this. He's got his idea of what he wants to say but he can't get a grip on it. He can't get a handle on it to get it all cogent and then fire it. He just can't make it happen. So he's being guarded at what he says because usually we've heard it to this point. He uses this vernacular, it's just so high end and explaining what's going on. It's incredible. It shows how smart he is. Lots of eye movement and lots of discomfort. You guys, you've got everything on this. So I'm not gonna go over how that'd be boring. There's been a reporting about workplace behavior in the past, the New York Times reported six women from Microsoft, the company you created, your foundation and the financial firm that manages your fortune said that your behavior at times created an uncomfortable workplace environment. I know spokeswoman for you acknowledged you had an affair 20 years ago with a Microsoft employee that she said ended amicably. Do you have regrets? Well, certainly I think everyone does but it's a time of reflection and at this point I need to go forward. My work is very important to me. Within the family we'll heal as best we can and learn from what's happened. We're good? There have been a number of reports including in the New York Times and you know where I'm going with this about a handful of meetings if not more that you took with Jeffrey Epstein after he had been convicted as a sexual offender. And I know that you have said it was a mistake and that it was something that you wished you had not done in retrospect but I'm curious now with hindsight since those stories came out what you think the lesson of that was and when you think about that as an experience and this credentializing idea? Well, definitely any people with a reputation spending time with him probably gave him an undeserved sense of being back in the mainstream or not being a pariah and so my doing that was a mistake. As I go about trying to raise money for global health which every extra $1,000 we raise for that cause saves one life and so we are extremely resource limited. We can buy more bed nets, we can buy more vaccines. In that case I made a mistake in judgment that I thought that those discussions would lead literally to billions of dollars going to global health turned out that was a bad judgment, that was a mirage none of that money ever appeared and I gave him some benefit by the association so I made a doubly wrong mistake there. In general when we have something like the giving pledge we, it is tricky when somebody wants to sign up and you're like well but your fortune is really a question of fortune. There's some countries that we just haven't done any recruiting in at all because we're not in a position to really make those judgments. Because you look and you- All right, I'm gonna go first on this one because you guys are slamming me on everything else. This is the first time we see him, what's really the first time we see his feet really. So we see his feet as an adapter and he's trying to get rid of that built up stress, energy, retention, that's usually what you see there. So those things are kind of moving around a lot. He's gripping his chair, he's goofing around with that water there at the top and we see that one single shoulder popped throughout the whole thing. It gets going on all the other ones, everything gets to happening but just the single there for one. His breathing rate goes a little bit higher, shows he's under stress and he is under a little bit of stress and then he just directs everything from that question on out to the open seas at that point. He just talks about everything else. When his hands are at his sides, they go down and get still. That's when he talks about making a mistake and when he talks about something he's done wrong. So he's not making a big a deal about everything body language wise. And when his hands are up over his head, that's when he's doing that freak out thing where his hands are looking all odd. That's when the redirection starts. Every time I see somebody do something like that, I think about Mark, the whole truth playing situation. All right, oh yeah, and he's gripping the chair. It's almost like he's hanging on, he sees this coming, there's no way out of it. And he's all hunched down, looks like Stephen Hawking there at the top. It's just weird looking posture there at the beginning and then it straightens right out and he gets right into it as he tries to defend himself going through this. I'm not seeing the panic. I think we should see if someone had done something that a lot of people think he's done like a pedophile would do. I don't think we're seeing that here at all. We're not seeing the panic we should be seeing if that's what was on the line here. I don't think that's what's happening here. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so let's walk through the mechanics. First of all, he's kind of messing with that water bottle and I think his second guess is picking up a bottle of water is what it looks like. Now he could be closing it. My guess is he was gonna get a bottle of water and thought, well, that's a dumb, oh yeah, that's gonna go badly. But his hands a little twitchy when he does it. If you pay attention, he is sitting deep in the chair. Now this chair is a torture device. This is probably against Geneva Conventions to put somebody in this chair in general just because it's such a bad chair to have him in. And his posture, he's back to what he looked like in that first, very first video we see back to the kid who's sitting there. He makes himself smaller, his eyes are closed. His throat's protected with his chin down as the question starts. He has adapters aplenty. He's doing that foot thing with one foot causing the other one to bounce. Chase, the thing we talked about long, long time ago. His thumb on the right arm of the chair is massaging the chair and then he does a couple of other things with his hand and then the guy asks the question and his finger goes, boom, okay, I'm on. When his finger touches, there again is the CEO ready to talk to the street. I'm waiting until the question's asked before I answer it. He does that and then he, as he moves into that he locks eyes, he sits up and he's, let's deal with it. And then he uses a word definitely. When he does that, he does that weird, I think he's flashing Microsoft gang sign or something. I don't know what he's doing there. He does that weird hand thing, whatever it is for him. Then he goes back to the expert that he is. He's talking about, I made the mistake. He says I made a mistake at least twice, maybe three times. Not typical of guilty people. Like a guy who is probably charged with, like you said, Scott, if a guy's probably in trouble with pedophilia or something, he's trying to say something three times. So that makes me trust him more just because I don't typically hear guilty people saying, I screwed up, I screwed up, I screwed up. They'll say it one time maybe and then try to get away from it. And then he does that weird head touching thing but he does one thing that makes me immediately go, I wonder what's going on. He goes to the holy warrior piece. Hey, I'm doing great things for the world. So sometimes in the process, but then he closes that with saying, I still screwed up. No matter how good I was my intense where I did this. Do I think he probably did anything unethical? Don't know. But here's what I would say. I think that we're probably gonna see a lot of people that have been involved with Epstein in some capacity that we're not gonna see any kind of body language that shows they're guilty of anything. We're gonna find people that probably he had interactions with and then he figured out who he could take advantage of is what we're probably gonna see. So is he one of them? Maybe. But what I don't see here is a guy who is going, hey, I'm trying to chaff and redirect to get away from the issue. He does chaff and redirect to explain his activity and then say I did screw up and come back to it. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, I totally agree with you. You can almost see the reporter prepping Gates and Gates touches and kind of moves this water bottle off screen. And I think Greg would know better than anybody. I've been through SEER training. Greg used to teach it, but establishing the physical contact and movement and control over anything in your environment is a proven way to lower your psychological stress and reestablish your sense of control in an environment. I think that might be what we're seeing with the water bottle. I think he's shrinking into this question prep. He's making his body smaller. All animals do this when they feel threatened, vulnerable or insecure. And keep in mind when we talk, any of us talk about strategies of the animal getting smaller in response to a threat, this is outside of our awareness. This is totally unconscious behavior that kept our ancestors alive in the presence of predators or during a fight. And there's heavy breathing into this chest in preparation, just while the question's being answered. And he's gesturing and pointing to his right while describing this negative contact with Epstein. I'd like Mark maybe to talk about the planes that we're seeing here, because we're seeing them being accessed on many different levels. And maybe there's a way we can overlay that or put it in the description here because I think it's brilliant. The legs are bouncing and moving and gates is burning off adrenaline from stress. This is not out of guilt. This is most likely out of stress. And just keep in mind as a rule of thumb, the further a body part is from the head, the harder it is to control during anxiety or stress. But I think it's great that we see something that not a lot of guilty people here do, which Greg, you hit on personally owning a mistake, which I think is great. Mark? Yeah, so let me do a description in just one moment around where his gestures go and what that does for us as an audience. But I would say actually what happens here is kind of within the baseline that we saw in our first video. Let me take you through why I think that is. So we see him, he's leaned back. By the way, you can tell he's not my client. And the reason is because my clients don't get to have a bottle of water. For the very reason that they're not allowed to mess around with anything, they're not gonna show any self soothing gestures on objects around them. So the area gets stripped of anything like that. Also, if my client were shown that chair, I'd have said, no, this show doesn't happen with that chair there. My client does not sit in that chair. You're gonna get a different chair. He doesn't go on if it's that chair. Now it's a big event. There's a big audience there. So there's gonna be a certain amount of adrenaline up because it's just a big stage. And some of the gestures you'll see are about filling that stage. Although the gestures are peculiar to him and particular to him, most other people you'll never see doing this style of gestures. I think you're right, Chase, that the question set up kind of deals with the devil in the question. It kind of says, so we all know where this is going. And then it kind of goes, and we're not really gonna talk about this. And it goes to, what do you now think about this situation? So he's given an out. And I think because of that, the stress lowers. He also countermeasures this by going to where he's comfortable, which is to talk about big ideas. And so the brain starts worrying, up comes the hands, he starts in passion. We start to see the fingers move around because now his brain is really worrying as he starts to come up with these bigger conceptual ideas. You'll see that they raise and raise and raise until they go up to what I call the ecstatic plane here. We see a few touches of the head, which is suppression of the ecstatic. It could be signaling something or it could be just signaling, whoa, I'm really off on one now. I need to bring it back down. It could be that, I'm not quite sure. But here's what we see in the end is ecstatic gestures go into what I would call third circle, which means the arms, the joints lock out. So in my model, there's first circle where literally you've got hands touching other parts of the body. And then you've got second circle where you've got just a little bit of gap or some gap between the hands and the rest of the body. And you'll see it opens up here. And then you've got third circle where the joints start to lock out. Now, on a big stage, you've got to do third circle at some point. You go to any rock show, any big event and you'll see the performer go into third circle because how else are you going to fill the stage? So I think there's some of that stage craft going on. I think there's also the thing that his brain can work at such a big idea rate that he has a comfort in not controlling his gestures and allowing them to do what they naturally want to do. And people have said to him at some point, hey, you should suppress that down a little bit. I'm not sure how well that works on the news and so forth. Because on the news, his hands would just be leaving the frame. Whereas in this situation here, his hands don't leave the frame or certainly for the live audience, because it's a big stage. One last thing that was kind of interesting about this, well, two things, if I may. One you can see from his feet, there's a strange wear pattern on his shoes. Somebody who understands orthodontics will be able to tell us in a kind of a Sherlock Holmes-y kind of way what this actually means about the way he moves around the world. But it is quite an extraordinary wear pattern on the bottom of his shoes. Last thing I want to say, he uses a metaphor, mirage, that Epstein was a mirage. This for me is the most important thing out of everything we've seen. That this smart guy, one of the smartest guys on the planet, saw Epstein as somebody who could create the optical illusion of the most important resource on the planet, which is water. So it's a mirage. Now, that's really extraordinary because if Epstein could create a mirage for this person, how many other people could he create this optical illusion that he had the way forward to the most important thing for them? Remember, Gates says, look, $1,000 is a saved life. And so Epstein is there, I guess, creating the mirage of, I can give you, I can get you through philanthropy, through my other clients, thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars, I can save millions of people's lives, which is clearly important to Gates, clearly important to leave a legacy of having saved lives. So most interesting thing for me that Epstein could create this illusion for somebody at that level, a mirage. There, that's all I got on that one. There have been a number of reports including in the New York Times, and you know where I'm going with this, about a handful of meetings, if not more, that you took with Jeffrey Epstein after he had been convicted as a sexual offender. And I know that you have said it was a mistake and that it was something that you wished you had not done in retrospect, but I'm curious now with hindsight, since those stories came out, what you think the lesson of that was, and when you think about that as an experience and this credentializing idea. Well definitely, any people with a reputation, spending time with him, probably gave him an undeserved sense of being back in the mainstream or not being a pariah, and so my doing that was a mistake. As I go about trying to raise money for global health, which every extra $1000 we raise for that cause saves one life, and so we are extremely resource limited. We can buy more bed nets, we can buy more vaccines. In that case, I made a mistake in judgment that I thought that those discussions would lead literally to billions of dollars going to global health. Turned out that was a bad judgment, that was a mirage, none of that money ever appeared, and I gave him some benefit by the association. So I made a doubly wrong mistake there. In general, when we have something like the giving pledge, it is tricky when somebody wants to sign up and you're like, well, but your fortune is really a question of fortune. There's some countries that we just haven't done any recruiting in at all because we're not in a position to really make those judgments. Because you look and you see the corruption. Yes, that it may have been derived improperly, and I feel bad, we probably will at some point accept someone into the giving pledge and it'll turn out that their fortune is a disreputable fortune. It is, and you're engaging in this, if you really want to get out there and get more people drawn into philanthropy, there is a risk that you'll make a mistake. All right, Chase, what do you got? There's not a whole lot here. There's nothing suggesting deception in this leg movement thing, that the stress is not deception regardless of how many people on YouTube who claim it and claim to be experts. I think, I'm just gonna call out one thing on here. I want you to pay attention to how pronouns can kind of go down a staircase. This has four key pronoun statements in it. It is, I feel bad, we will probably at some point make a bad financial decision or get a bad investment. If you want to get out there and get people drawn in, there's a risk you'll make a mistake. So it's shifting from I, me, to the team, to all of us, to you. And it's going right to you, the person listening. This is brilliantly crafted and if this was not deliberately written to be this way, he has probably evolved this extremely persuasive way of speaking over time, which I would commend. Greg? Yeah, I'm gonna say the same thing. There's a lot of chaff and redirect here, but it's with a purpose. This is a way to make self-whole, right? I just have gone through all this. Now you're asking me, how could that possibly happen? I'm gonna make myself whole. Many years ago when I worked at Sear, I'll give you a good Sear story, we used to teach people how to hide. Evasion is much better than escape. It means nobody's ever touched you. This is before you ever get caught. And one of the things we would teach them is when you go into a place, go back and roll the grass over backward so that people can't see the trail you left. This is rolling the grass over backward. This is making myself whole and walking away the same guy I came in the room. That's all this is. The chaff and redirect is, hey, you gave me a chance to talk about how we make mistakes. Here's how we make mistakes. It's a big deal. We're going to eventually make them anyway. And we're not talking about that anymore. And I think it's appropriate that he's doing whatever he can to salvage back whatever reputation he's sat down with. That's all I see. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, there's only one thing that kind of comes up for me in this, which is unusual is this double head scratch that happens there. I think if you go to Joan of Arrows book, Diction of Body Language, I'm not even sure there's double head scratch in there. I'm not, I mean, I could be wrong. But, you know, if you can, if somebody can find double head scratch in there, I'm not even sure it's... Probably the naked ape, maybe. That one is there. So, instantly, the only thing that I do is go, I'd like to go back and ask a little bit more around that. Because maybe it's nothing or maybe it's something or maybe it's something that is important or maybe it's something that isn't important at all. But I'm interested that he says it around it like, there's a chance that at some point in history, we will have, you know, money come in and it's come from nefarious, you know, places. I would be going, yeah, how's that? Are you worried that's already happened? And if you are worried that's already happened, who most comes to mind for you that is the biggest risk? Because my guess is, I mean, look, just, you know, just if you have a lot of investors, like, how do you guarantee? How do you know each investor well enough or for the entrepreneurs? How do you know them well enough to know where every dollar has come from? So, of course, there's a chance in the future. Well, I mean, it's probably already happened, hasn't it? I mean, let's just be, you know, realistic about it. You can't check every dollar. So, I reckon there's something interesting there, but I just don't know. I don't see a lot of that gesture though. In the, Scott, give me your thoughts while I see whether Joe actually says anything about a double head scratch. I'll have a look. It's not in there. It's not in there, okay. Thank you. All right. Well, very, very quickly he moves to add everyone else in who's had the same problem he's had with this. He's been sort of blamed for the same thing, ever been in the same bunch of trouble he's in for this. Really quickly moves to that. His hands are gripping the chair just like before because this is a fairly stressful moment for him. But we're not seeing anything new here that we didn't see in the one just before this. I agree with you, Greg. And I don't, again, I don't think we're seeing the panic we should see if he was being accused of something much more than something like pedophilia. I just, I don't, he doesn't look worried about that. That there are no signs of panic and there are no signs of deception here. There are signs of worry and signs of stress, but not distress, just stress at this point. All right, that's what I got. If you look and you see the corruption. Yes, that it may have been derived improperly and I feel bad, we probably will at some point accept someone into the giving pledge and it'll turn out that their fortune is a disreputable fortune. It is, and you're engaging in this, if you really want to get out there and get more people drawn into philanthropy, there is a risk that you'll make a mistake. So let's roll around the room and see what everybody thinks and get our wrap up thoughts on these videos. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so, you know, I just leave us with this idea of it's a better story if we look for nefarious stuff going on and we're right to, you know, if there's evidence that might point towards that. Of course we should take it seriously, we should investigate that. I think it might disappoint a lot of people that we just don't see anything really there that suggests the awfulness that some people would like to be going on. It just isn't present from my point of view. Chase, what do you think? I can already tell there's gonna be comments about people saying, well, you guys need to do the other video and tell us about the micro-robots that he's hiding inside of vaccines or whatever the hell. Or accuse us of getting checks. Checks. Which we always get. You know, if anybody's innocent there we're getting paid off somewhere. Which I think is great. This whole video here is illustrative of someone who is worried about mostly one thing. He's worried about his image socially and the image of his foundation that he spent his entire life building. When it comes to the relationships we don't see any specific signs or clusters of deceptive behavior whatsoever. Great. Yeah, I'm gonna do my favorite thing. We're gonna talk about Maslow's hierarchy, self-actualization. There's not much you can do to make you more self-actualized than save millions of lives through a foundation. Maybe there's something else I can't think of it if there is. Maybe it depends on your psyche. If you've gotten yourself wedged to that point and there's the potential for that to topple you're going to have stress associated with that self-actualization. So we expect to see stress. I also am a big fan of baseline and looking for the spikes in baseline and looking to see what indicates the most stress cost. In this one, we know he had affairs. We know that happened. We know that happened at the workplace and you can certainly see it because he does that worm on a griddle dance around. But when we ask him about Epstein we don't see the same level of concern or panic. That for me says I'm not as afraid of him being associated with Epstein. And by the way Bill Gates, if you're sending a check make sure you get my address correct so that I can retire. What do you got? I'll make sure Gates is going to call there tonight about this to make sure everything went smoothly. If you like what we're doing, please subscribe. Hit that little red button down there and hit the bell, let you know when we have something new come out which is every Thursday. So, all right, we good? Yeah, I'm good. All right, all right, this is a good and I'll see you guys next time. Thanks y'all. Bye now. Live and hate your pen. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so at New York times he goes from this resting happy lip compression the one we typically are used to seeing and then he appears to chew the left inside lip. That's anxiety. Mark, you brought it up earlier when you did it one more time. I can't do this guys. Thank God. I was doing fine till you get started. Okay, now I can, I chased, I've watched you. I can't. Don't look at me, I'm the worst. I just can't help it. I know if you go, I'm going to go. I guess I don't know if it's a good one.