 Wonderful and welcome to the winter 2023 masterclass in activism hosted by the Center for Racial Justice at the Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy and co-sponsored by Democracy and Debate at the University of Michigan. I am Celeste Watkins Hayes, the founding director of the Center for Racial Justice, interim dean of the Ford School of Public Policy and Professor of Sociology. At the Ford School and at the Center for Racial Justice we seek a world in which people are able to achieve their full human potential regardless of race, ethnicity, gender, sexuality, class and other categories that have been used to divide and marginalize people. We train leaders who understand the critical role of public policy in improving our world. We recognize the power of public policy to bolster or undercut our life opportunities and experiences and we see policy analysis at the Ford School as a critically important tool for us to measure, reflect, historically examine and help us define the way forward. As we examine the fraught histories and consequences of some of our policies and the transformative power of others we learn a valuable lesson. Effective and just public policy can only be achieved if we bring diverse perspectives to the table. The Masterclass in Activism is a widely advertised event series that centers and uplifts noted activists, scholars and thought leaders who have made significant marks on the racial justice landscape. I am delighted and humbled to introduce you to Miss Angela Harrelson. Angela Harrelson is the aunt of George Floyd, a caretaker of the George Floyd Global Memorial that commemorates the site of George Floyd's murder, the co-chair of the Memorial Board of Directors and the author of this amazing book, Lift Your Voice, How My Nephew George Floyd's Murder Changed the World. Angela, I want to begin by thanking you for being with us today and it's an absolute honor. And to foreshadow the conversation I want to walk us through a conversation in which we talk about the roots of your activism and your insights and observations as caretaker of your Nephew's Memorial and the key issues driving your activism and how you think about your toolkit as an activist. But first I want to ask you, who was Perry? I'm glad you asked that because after his murder, his name became more like a hashtag to some people because that's what they knew. But to me, he was family. He was family. And I laid eyes on my nephew when he was about five years old. And at that time, his mother is my sister named Sissy because my mother had 14 children, okay? 14 children, 10 girls and four boys. And one of the girls was his mother, my sister. And like my sister often came to live with us because of hard times. You know, she's a single mother, tried to make it, you know, take care of three kids. And I remember seeing Perry, you know, he was running around playing, you know. And one of the things that I noticed about him, so young, but so humble, because see we lived in like a broke down house, outhouse, very little running water. But when Perry came around and she brought him, he didn't complain. You know, he went to go use the outhouse, you know, he was standing on this little wooden block and tried to pump the water, we show him and he did it. He didn't complain about it. He didn't complain about it. You know, and as he got older, you know, and my sister got a little bit better, they moved and migrated to Houston. And Houston's where he grew up. You know, you hear about in Houston. You know, when he was in the second grade, he wanted to be a Supreme Court judge. He wanted to be a Supreme Court judge. He wanted to be an NFL player. He wanted to be an NBA player. He had all these dreams. He was really, really, really good in sports. But my sister lived in a really, really tough neighborhood. You know, community homes, the projects, you know, drugs there, you know, an environment that wasn't really healthy. But my sister did the best she can. And Perry often struggled with helping my sister, with his younger nieces and brother raising them, helping my sister raise her grandkids and trying to go to school. You know, he was the eldest son. You know, he was the first to graduate from high school. And he really wanted to do well in college. But he just, he just was like a tug of war. Do I help mom, you know? How do I go to college? I don't have the money. So he ended up getting a lot, a lot of trouble, you know, doing drugs, because I have to be transparent. And it's important to be transparent. And he got in some trouble. You know, he ended up doing time, you know, trying to make quick money. When things lead to another. But it's like he did it for the right reasons. But it was a wrong choice. That's the best way to put it. And so when he went to prison, you know, that was something that he totally regret. My sister was devastated. We always devastated. That was the first child to ever experience that incarceration. And so after he got out, you know, he made a promise to her that he would do better. And you know, and he tried, you know, he changes life around when he got out. And but here's the thing, he was still in the same neighborhood. I kind of went fast forward on you guys. He was in the same neighborhood. So that was really hard for him. But even when he got out, he still would reach out to the pastors to help him do outreach work, you know, to help the young black challenge teams, you know, because, you know, they thought a lot of him, because you know, he had his history of being a great basketball player, football player. So when a pastor would come in that neighborhoods and try to round up 50 people, they couldn't do it. But Perry, he could come in there and say, Hey, y'all, let's go. Everybody come. So he didn't really, really important outreach work. But he had challenges with his sobriety. So when he got a chance, he said, You know what? I'm going to change my life around. Remember the word change? I'm going to change my life around. He reached out to a pastor in Minneapolis. He reached out to that pastor and that pastor worked with him. And he came to Minneapolis to make a change. And the book you talk about part of what brought him to Minneapolis was he was seeking treatment. Yeah, drug treatment. He came. He wanted a fresh start, a fresh start. And he was so happy. Perry was happy. I mean, I remember when I got that call, he said, Auntie, I'm here. I'm like, where is you live in Minneapolis? I didn't believe was here. But it was like, you know, it was just we just we would talk every night we had conversation. He even remember when he was five years old, me doing cheerleading practices. I said, I didn't do you was watching me do the cheerleading practices. But he remember those things that I had no idea that he was watching me do as a teenager, you know, but you know, but he came here. And you know, and he went to turning point, he went through the treatment, did really well. He was working up, not one, not two, but three jobs. And when I was kind of kind of worried about, say, you know what, why don't you come work at the hospital? He said, I'm going to do that. So he was working on, you know, getting things together to come and work at the hospital and stuff. Is your your nurse that that works on substance abuse issues? Yes, I worked in I've been a nurse for 30 years. And out of 30 years, 10 years, years, I worked in substance abuse. So I knew, you know, I knew about detox and withdrawal symptoms and the causes. So I knew all the medical side of it. And so I was like, you know what, you know, he's my family, I can be a good ear for him, the support system, you know, it's going to be okay, it's going to be okay. But when my sister passed away, that was a turning point for Perry. Because this book, in a lot of ways is about grief. It's about your grief. But it's also about his grief. I don't think he ever got over her. Because I mean, they were each other's heartbeat. And tell me what happened after his mother died. You know, we went I remember when she died, and I was talking to Perry, I said, Perry, you know, we got to go to the funeral. And I said, you know, I need to we need to get there quickly. So I just want to drive. I said, Okay, I was kind of worried about him driving, but he said he had friends with him to help him. Because you know, but he said he'd be okay. And what were you worried about with him driving? I don't know, because I, because his mind, you know, when you going through something that painful, and remember, he came to Minneapolis to make a change. And one thing that was important for him was this was for his mother to see this change. And, you know, I wish some way I could have conveyed to him, she see you climbing toward success, she sees that, you know, you don't have to accomplish but she sees it. And she was proud of that. And that was the message that he that she left for him. And I don't think he allowed himself to see that. So you talk about in the book how he even before his mother died, he was going through a grieving process about how his life was unfolding. And what it could have been versus what it was, the dreams that he held for himself versus the realities that he was trying to navigate. And your sister passes away, and he's dealing with that very visceral grief. And then you all lose touch. I was touched. And, and I kept calling Perry, I thought, well, maybe he got his phone disconnected, but he was always getting his phone disconnected. But then I call his sisters, and they said, we don't know where he is. And I'm like, Okay, I didn't, you know, I didn't know what to do. But my mind was going to that place that as a professional that worked in substance abuse, I knew in nine, in here, that he didn't want to tell myself that. But at the same time, I say, you know what, if it if he has done that, he always would come back. He will always find his way back. happen next. Two years later, I would try my best to reach out to no one can pull it. And then I always hope that come back. But then I got a call from a news reporter. Most devastating news that I had. So it's not common for us to be at home. And a reporter calls our house. It's like, I was just so taken back by it because he called he said, Is this Angela Harrelson? I said, Well, yes, it is. He said, I'm calling about about the murder of your nephew, George Forte. And I'm thinking I was honestly, my mind was not even there because I called him Perry, family, we all know him as Perry. But I hadn't heard anything. I haven't seen the TV. I haven't watched the TV. No family members that got in touch with me. I honestly, nothing clicked. And he kept saying it. Are you Angela Harrelson? I said, Well, yes, I am. He said, I am calling about the murder of your nephew, George Forte. And when I I just put the phone down, I said, You must have the wrong family. Because nothing clicked. But little did I know it was my family. So you found out about Perry's death from a reporter calling your house and asking how you felt about it. Later I found out a lot of the family members found out through that one. Yes. Yes. And it wasn't till after I hung their phone up, I got this restless spirit. Something would not sit right. And I don't know it was something in that news reporters voice, because it was too serious to be a scam. And I get the scam calls. There was something about that voice that made me say, Okay, check your messages. So I checked my messages. I said, Oh my God, I've never got all these messages before. You know, and then I said, Well, I checked my voicemail and I'm like, My goodness, why are they all these voicemail messages? So finally I got there was a text that said call call as soon as possible. I call. And the first thing with my sibling said, the police killed Angela, the police killed Perry. And when they said that, I just was in shock. But my mind went right back to the news reporter, because it was like, Oh my God, the news reporter was telling the truth. He was telling the truth. And then simultaneously, my husband walks in the door, Angela yelling to turn the TV on, you know, all this is going. I'm like, I feel like I'm in the days at this point. And I'm in the days at this point. And then he then he's a come in here. So I come in there. And I came to what TV's right there. And I got the chance to watch the talent end of it. And there was Perry. And I said, Perry. And he was saying, I can't breathe. And then he said, Mama, Mama, he was gone. That was the part that all I saw. And I remember I just dropped like almost on my knees, near the couch. And I thank God and my husband was there. And I'm saying, what did I just watch? I thought I just watch a modern day lynching. That's how I felt. I was very emotional. I was crying. I was angry. I was mad. My anxiety was through the roof. You know, I couldn't think I was getting confused. And I was getting on the phone, we were doing two way calls, we were doing three way calls, conference call, everybody on the phone family members calling one another. And we're always trying to call each other, thinking we're trying to find another answer than what we heard. And finally, you know, we got tired of talking all night. And, and it was extremely emotional. And I was just glad that my husband was there to help me get through it. Because not in a million years, I expected to hear that. About the horror of watching that unfold on national television. And as we all know, some of his last words, Perry's last words were Mama, Mama. And as you read the book and in this conversation, you realize just the significance of what he was saying. There were a lot of people didn't know that his mother was dead. But close family members and friends we did. So I knew what it meant. Because um, but I'm a tab at that moment. I believe that when he said that, he saw her spiritually. We couldn't see her. But I believe he did. It was like she said, it's okay, you can come. He was gone. Fulmination of his grief, being in the moment where he's losing his life. A lot of people don't know it. He said, I can breathe 28 times. 28 times. He said that to those police officers. And at the end of the day, all he was doing was asking for help. One of the things that's so powerful about the statement I can't breathe. And the symbolism of an individual having their neck on another individual was in the book, you write about your family's long history of having somebody on your family's neck. You talk about your great, great, great grandparents, our slavery, actually, my great grandparents, great grandparents, great, great grandparents. Hillary Thomas Stewart senior, Hillary Thomas Stewart seniors, my great grandfather. And he was born a slave. And he didn't get his they call it free papers. He didn't get his free papers to he was eight years old. And he was my my my grandparents said he was a very hardworking man. And by the age of 21, he had bought he had accumulated over 500 acres of land. But unfortunately, because he couldn't read and write, he lost the family, we lost all that land. And ended up mostly a generation of sharecropping. And but one thing that was passed along, they wanted me to make sure I knew who my great grandparents were and their names. And that's why I want I make sure I put that knowledge in that book, because they work really hard. And they tried really hard grandpa, Hillary, and my grandparents and my parents, they tried really hard. And we didn't have much. But but they had that faith. They believed in God. And they persevered to the sweat of their brow, because they work sun up and sun down. You know, we grew up in the back of fields, you know, not naturally growing up. I'm talking about working in the tobacco fields. I know what that's like. But one thing they taught us was the persevere. They taught us about hard work. They taught us to believe in faith. And when your back is against the wall and what you have to do. And you keep and you keep declaring that faith and you keep pushing through till you get there. And and they had those dreams for all, you know, my mother had a dream for 14 children, you know, and my grandpa, my great grandfather, they were 20 in his family. 20 children, you know. And one of the things that is so interesting about Perry's story is that it's, and your family story is situated in a larger context, the legacy of slavery, the sharecropping system that, you know, we think of that as something that was happening decades and decades and decades ago. But your, your your family was in the sharecropping system until when in the 70s and 80s, we sharecropping. 1970s, 1970s, 1970s, and 1980s. You know, it was that it wasn't too close to high school. I think my father got a job. Either middle high school, he got a job. He thought he had upgraded and the first job he got as a cook. And and and back then in Goldsboro, they still had the signs on the door that said, white only, this was in the early 70s. And this was in the early 70s. So yeah. And as we think about that, that interracial intergenerational wealth, the other important thing about your story is because your family had worked as sharecroppers. That was a profession that was written out of social security policy, right? We know from 1935 New Deal Act, the two professions that are written out of eligibility for social security benefits, domestic workers and agricultural workers. And what are most black people doing in the 1930s? And that legacy ends up following your family so that by the time your parents were elderly, my mother could they didn't have anything. Yeah, it's so true. And because we worked in, we not only worked in tobacco fields, we had to work in the in the chicken houses they call when you pick up eggs and stuff. And one day, when she got ready to go to try to see if she get money for disability social security, there was really nothing there. It's because they didn't file the taxes and do all that stuff. So when you did the sharecropping work, they paid you mostly cash or they paid you check, but they didn't declare any of it. And so a lot of them just died broke without anything. And accumulate a lot of health problems at it, you know, bad health. It was really, really hard. And we got mostly our school clothes by working in the tobacco fields in the summer. Because that's all we knew. And people should know the sharecropping system, the own the land is owned by the white farmer, right. And the arrangement is your family works the fields. And in exchange, they get this day in free housing, they get free housing. And some some people prefer to call it homestead. But here's the thing. If you call in sick or you can't work, you pretty much you pretty much out of the house. You know, I remember my father talking about a gentleman work so hard for 30, 30 over 30, 40 years. And one day, the first time he ever called in sick. And he's always I'm sick. I'm not feeling well. And the farmer told him that you have to move. But he continued to work till he was sick. Because you didn't own anything. And you fear of being put not in the streets. So you did what you had to do. So as a result, what we see in families who have grown up in this system of racial caste, let's just call it what it is. You often see the struggle around intergenerational wealth. And you know, when I was reading your story, I told you I felt like I was reading parts of my own family story, right. So my family was able to accumulate a little bit of land in the south, always a feeling of anxiety and vulnerability. I still wonder how in the world were they able to keep those 20 acres? How did that happen? And as families try to navigate this system, some people are able to get access to education. And I would love for you to talk about your experience doing that. And then there ends up being this diversity within the family, because not everybody can navigate in the same way. Not everybody can can deal with that struggle in the same way. And you see a variety of coping strategies. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Tell us how you became a nurse. I became a nurse. Well, initially, I wanted to become a lawyer and attorney. But that didn't work out too well. Well, you know, because when I first moved away from home, I got the courage because I had a sister that moved away, moved from New York and moved to Iowa. And so, you know, I had like big dreams. I said, Okay, this is my chance. This is my chance. And then I remember going, I was very young. And I signed up for the classes. They told me. And then one day I was called into the office, not the principal office, but the counselor back then they called him. And I don't know what this man, I remember his name very, very well. I'm not going to call it. I still remember it. He said, you know, he said, I'm racist. He said that he said, I don't teach you black people law. Pretty much he summed it up. And I was I got frightened. And I got intimidated because when I experienced down south, so being so young, I still felt powerless. And I'm thinking, here I moved away, I'm chasing a dream. And I'm trying to go to school. And he told me that he will not he doesn't teach black people called he racist. He was just boldly said that he was a college in Iowa. So I said, you know what, I think maybe I try something else. You know, because I was scared, I didn't, you know, because I was raised up. And unfortunately, my mother was raised up very passive, because she was raised up in a time, being a sharecropper, that you respect white people. You know, you do whatever they say is correct. And you don't question them. Because they were taught they are the better race. And so when that was, and that was passed alone. And see, my mom, she did that a lot because she was trying to protect us. Because she grew up in a time that when you question them, you get put out in the house because it has so much power. And that's why. And so when he told said that to me, that triggered, I said, you know what, let me just leave this man alone. You know, I feel good that I'm able to try to go to college. I'm almost there. I'm just gonna try to find another way. So I ended up going to school, actually, in psychology, studying behaviors and getting a degree in psychology. And then I did nursing. And I got the courage to join the military to help me. And your army reservist, no Air Force. I did three services back then that you do three, you know, I ended up with the Air Force Reserve. But I started off with the Army National Guard. And I did one year in the air in the Navy Reserve. Mm hmm. So fast forward to 2020. And this horrific thing has happened. And it is unfolding on national television. And you bring to that moment, your history and biography, your family's history and biography, what you know about who Perry is. And you are thrust into the national spotlight. And your family is and your life is tell us about what happened in those days and weeks after his murder. There was just so much going on. It was chaos, you know, the gatekeeper, you know, community members, people like the gatekeeper and the community stood in for us. When I and I know the rest of the family was just too broken. And because we didn't know what to do. It was like, because I didn't know any of the community members. And I'm thinking, well, my God, who's going to help us? I can't wait. Are they going to be there for us? Are they going to help us? Because I thought about Trayvon Martin. I'm thinking no one's going to help us. Historically, no one helped us. And so I didn't know what to do. My family know what to do. You know, we was trying to go to the hearings and they were doing all the planning and everything was chaotic. And it was the protest. It was rioting. And the memorial was there. And I was worried about Memorial. And little did I knew there was a little city of this own being created in the memorial. While I'm going through this traumatic where community members forming and protecting the space. Little did I know this was going on outside of the store. Yeah, outside all of this. It was just in your own courage. And I probably come back to that. And at the time, I wanted to be a voice to do something. And I'm trying to figure out Lord, what can I do? I've never did activism before. I just don't know if I can do it. And so it was so emotional because all I could do was think about Perry all day. I think about him all day. And I go to bed dreaming about it. And it just went on. I said, I said, what is God trying to tell me? You know, why am I keep thinking about this? I know I just want to rest. But what came to me is what he was trying to reveal to me that Angela Perry, he was lying on that ground handcuffed handcuffed behind his back. And he was saying I can't breathe. I can't breathe. And what what the words, the intuition that spoke to me. And that message was for me that if he can muster those words and find the courage to say I can't breathe. And those conditions of that made with that man with the knee on his neck, then surely I can give you the strength to be to be a voice for him. I'm sorry, I need a moment. And that's what gave me the courage to step out. Because he said he couldn't breathe 28 times. When he was in pain. And it takes a lot of courage to say you can't breathe when you're in pain. And when you're struggling for your life. And you fearing death at your door and you know that it's coming. And you and you know no one is helping you. So here I am. I'm healthy. I'm grieving. I'm in pain. But I'm not but I'm not experiencing what he is. So God showed me that I can do it. And he gave that he brought that anointing upon me and gave me that strength to do it. And what build my strength that I had the courage to go out to the square. And when I went out to the square the first time that I've been with our family I've been a few times with family. It gave that situation gave me my serious experience. I mean gave me the strength to go out there. And there was my first my first walk alone out there. I did it. But when I did it. I started walking I was worried. Not worried about the square but worried about can I make it when I break down. Is it going to overwhelm me because I didn't have the support of my family. But as I begin to walk towards that memorial there were people started coming to my left. There were people sort of walking to my right and they knew my name. And they said Miss Angela I'm with you. There were people coming from behind. So it's like they were saying I got you. You know I'm behind you I got you. There were people that led me that was with me the gatekeeper. I remember when she came up that led the way. And so I know who you are. She's I know who you are. And that led the way. That was the most spiritual overwhelming. And it was joy that I had. I can do this but I'm not alone. And that's when the community I knew the important what the importance of a community and they wrapped their arms around me. And we all been just family family. And so as much as I can I go out there and and they've shared their stories with me and their strength and what they sacrificed that community sacrificed not just their time their money but their life that life was threatened because they were trying to they were fighting for my for justice for my nephew Perry in the middle of a pandemic went outside and said no more no more and that type of love. Became mine became a nutrition to build the strength that the strength that God gave me to go on. And now we all are family at the George Ford Square. So if any of you guys are coming to visit once you visit we consider your family. You mentioned the gatekeeper. Yes this is our case gatekeeper stand up. Okay. She's looking at me. Tell us why that is needed. The gatekeeper. Yes. You know the gatekeeper can tell a story. Is it okay. She come up here. Yeah. Do you mind telling your story. You want me to tell you like whatever you're comfortable with. Okay. It's you know the gatekeeper. It was a position that was was that because I always say there's difference between the norm and and the point it. Some people are pointed to the positions but there's something that's inside of you that God touches you and say this is what I want you to do. And I know you can do this. And the gatekeeper shows up and she goes out there. She's like the media of the George Ford Square. That's that's how powerful her work is and she she's able to relate to anyone out there no matter what color they are. She can de-escalate because of her history. She's the latest been through a lot you know in her life. Incredible wisdom for a lot of of fights been through a lot of battles and very well respected in the in in the community. You know we have all types of people that come out there to the square. Lawyers doctors celebrities NFL owners Nelson Mandela grants all types of people homeless. We also have some gang related people that come out there as well. And you know it took all these people that make this protest successful. But you know that lady right there if there's anything going on when she walks in that square people stop and listen. They stop and listen. Because and this is important. Not everybody's there for the right reason right. And even those who are there for the right reason it's a coalition and not everybody's going to agree. Not everybody's going to have the same view of things. And you know in movement work we often assume that it's you know kumbaya every moment. But it's it's not social movements are messy and complicated. And there's a lot of layers that go. There's a lot of layers to it. And when you're doing activism work you also have to remember not everyone is going to agree with you. Not everyone is going to agree with your fight for you what you're fighting for. You may get the death threats. We got death the family got death threats. Some of the activists the community leaders got death threats. You know harassing phone calls. You know people following you. So when you're taking on this type of thing you have to know that not everyone is going to be for what you're fighting for. But one thing you have to realize is that if you want to start something like this or whatever you do you don't need everybody. You don't need a hundred people. You can have three people and have a movement. You just need the right people. Just need the right people. And and what did you want to see happen as a result of his murder and the activism. You know people had broad goals people have very specific goals. People had all kinds of ideas about what they wanted to see happen and how it should happen. What did you want to see. What what was vision for what you wanted to see happen. That's a tough that's a little tough question because a lot of things happened and I was so glad it did happen. Because his after his death there was an awareness that we never had about systemic racism. There was acknowledgement. There was a validation because for so long it was a sleeping giant for brown and black people. But it was a great for some reason it was a great awakening for white America. So when this happened it created a conversation that that was never that I've never seen about race race relations. And so that was incredible to see. There were a lot of great changes that are going on the diversity equity programs that happened police reform the changes that are going through. You know there are cases that got opened because of the death of George Floyd's. There's been a closer look into certain cases that were overlooked. So many there were like jobs that were created for people that were never had before. You know it was just wonderful. It was wonderful to see how corporation stepped up. It was wonderful to see the thing that we have to continue to work on I think is mental health. I'd like to see mental health brought into the police force. You know yes there's a police reform is going on. There's still more work to do. There's still more work to do. And because we just can't stop you know because changes are happening. We have to keep going because the goal is not to not 20 and 30 years to hold the sign Black Lives Matter. That is not the goal. The goal is is that we do what we can to abolish this away to get away from this. And this is where the you young people come in that the fierce young people come in that because one day we want to be able to not to be able to hold that sign when we can reach that level. Well we don't have to say Black Lives Matter. That's what we know we have arrived. That's what we know we have arrived. And I want to go back to your point about mental health and I wonder if you can say more about that because a lot of the conversation around the over surveillance of communities of color is around ensuring that that people have access to mental health services such that law enforcement isn't called in when there's a mental health incident or people are getting access to mental health services who are struggling with grief or other traumas as opposed to self-medicating through alcohol and drugs. But when you said that it off it also raised the question for me in terms of mental health within the police force. Yeah they need more mental health. Yeah. I'm laughing about it but they need a lot of mental health. I think they should be psychological testing because let's face it everybody's not cut out to be a police officer. It's just what it is but what I'm finding there's a certain type of individual and Lord knows I hate the label that really get a thrill sometimes out of power and control and it's like it just turns a button off because I see that because I work in mental health on the mental health I see you nurse and I'm a charge nurse as well. So when I see a security guard getting a little too happy then I have to step in and say no this is not the way and I have done that. I have done that and so the police force somehow they need to work it in their system their budget to offer that type of mental health for their police officers they need to do a mental health testing and I also think for people who are struggling mental health when the police officer come they may not know their person is struggling with mental health. Now the problem with brown and black people we've been labeled that we're more aggressive and more violent so a lot of times they're not thinking about our mental health I'm just I'm just just keeping it real but they gotta get to the point to say you know what these people are human being you know something's not off you know can we get an expert here to reevaluate the situation to de-escalate the situation you know of course if if it's a mass murder you know you can't do that you the things that's got to be done but I'm just talking about some of these situations stopping people for minor violations and somehow the minor violation ended up being escalated big fight someone's on the ground and thinks you know the person dead it shouldn't happen that way and there's got to be a better approach it's got to be I mean it's like you can't you can't just the police force it's like they're a slave patrol like they're like they see a suspect is runaway slaves and they're not runaway slaves you know they are human beings and you got to give them a chance you know give them a chance they're still human beings and you shouldn't be killed over traffic light I mean it stopped for a minor traffic violation and somehow it ended up a disaster so yes I think mental health is so important you know when they have a hostage situation people in the hostage situation what do they do they call the hostage negotiator he comes out do whatever they can you know to take care of that person you know and unfortunately you know most of the people that do these major hostages people often are white so they get a hostage negotiator you know what I'm saying you know that they can be creative you know they can do this and it doesn't have to be this hard it really doesn't and I think the system white supremacy that's the proper name for it because you know they have made this harder than it really should have should have been because they have spent so much energy planning manipulating strategizing these policies that are seen and unseen to maintain power and control and economic wealth and the strategic use of de-escalation for some and escalation right yeah yeah so as we think about all of these layers your family you and your family are grappling with the loss of a loved one the embrace of a community of the community the spotlight and some of the unwelcome attention and then there is the legal process around what will happen to those who participated in Perry's murder and particularly the Chauvin trial so I wonder if you can talk us through your experience with that how the family was navigating that and all under a spotlight and you mentioned Trayvon Martin so it's clear that that you had this idea of is the system going to work for us yeah um walk us through that well um walk us through that the legal part was extremely difficult because you have about 30 or 40 50 sometimes people in your face want to know what you think how you're feeling and you basically you're trying to just get through the day and you don't know what's going to happen and I remember the first day that I went maybe not the pre-hearing the first day of the trial when I went there surrounded with media and I said okay this is going to be okay when my first day that I went in there the first person that I saw was Derek Chauvin you know and um I was because we had to do like three security checks it was like borrow wire it looked like a prison the federal building courthouse looked like a prison because it was so tight and he was behind me so many feats that I didn't even know it and so when I something told me to turn around and we locked eyes at one another I'm like oh my god that's him and I recognize him because I remember the eyes I remember the eyes and then when I got in the courtroom and I saw him where he was sitting and it was him so you know going through that process there was a lot of worry because we was getting death threats so we tried to stay tight we try to you know just talk to each other a lot you know some were scared some family men were scared to be out some did not want to do any activism work especially the elderly ones they didn't want to do any his brothers maintained as much as they can it was just to the grace of god we got through it how we navigated we had um a wonderful team attorneys that that work with us um our faith and we just stayed close as much as we could we just stayed close and that's all you can do you know we had to go through the system and that day the verdict you know the gatekeeper said she was never worried about the verdict she said she knew the verdict was always going to be guilty and we in there like hoping and you know and and um and I remember they said they had a verdict we got two hours to get to the place for the verdict and we and they wouldn't tell us the location where we had to be because it they didn't want the family in the courthouse we had to meet at another location so we met there and all us was in there and I'm like oh lord here we go but when it came back guilty guilty guilty I just think I just they thought I have fainted but I didn't I just kind of like just dropped it just like a it was like something hit me like my gosh but and and I heard the whole family in there like there was like a roar but it wasn't like a a roar like a mocking anyone and that's very important I say that because it wasn't about mocking Mr. Chauvin it was about my god someone is going to be held accountable and then you know I thought about that thing and I I talked to the gatekeeper about this I said you know what the 12 jurors you know yeah they convicted him but the truth is the world convicted him when I think about and look back on it everything was in the right place for that conviction Donella Frazier that 17 year old girl who I'm internally grateful that videoed it because when she videoed that tape you know little did they know there was a news report they got put on by the police safety officer that George Floyd died of medical causes when he was arrested by the police that's what they said that was going to be the narrative that was yeah they already had told the story into Donella Frazier so you had Donella Frazier you know you had all those people there witness it you know the firefighter you know the old man um what's that I forgot his name there were so many the EMT was there there were so many witnesses that was there Charlie Mack Charlie Mack were there he was there people in the top floor the building yelling and most of all you had the world watching watching because of COVID you know and um even though COVID was a bad thing it was to our advantage that day because people were forced to watch something they didn't want to watch but they watched it second by second in minute by minute so I always tell people the world convicted Derek Chauvin the juries did a wonderful job you know the paperwork just need to catch up and that's what they did during the sentencing you had an opportunity to write a victim impact statement and I wonder if you can talk about that process of how how you try to influence the rest of what will happen well um I had gotten off work my attorney called say are you going to do an impact statement and I was going back and forth with it so I got I got off work about 1130 I stayed up to like one to two o'clock in the morning writing and pondering what to say it wasn't difficult to write but it just took it was like it it made me we trigger a lot of the emotions because I wanted that judge to know how important is I wanted judge to know we need to get this right we need to get this one right because this one is so important and I wanted him to know that Perry was a human being because yes they said he did drugs and the family we never said George Floyd was perfect we never said that we never said he never went to prison we never said he never did drugs in every interview I have done I've always tried to be transparent that way and I want to be transparent away because nobody's perfect he was a human being and I wanted him also to judge to know how important this movement was for the community and I want the judge to know that this is a change because this is bigger than the family it was bigger than the community this was big this was a world movement and that we need to send a message of accountability now and that was the purpose of me writing that impact statement so tell me about healing healing and to the degree that you think it's possible yes that you've experienced it and are experiencing it and what it is that has moved you along a journey of healing no it's been almost three years in the beginning it's devastating um the community really helped me out a lot I mean they held my hand I got to give it to George 38 in Chicago and gatekeeper I mean they held my hand and I love those guys they even being out there working with them it made me feel like I had a greater purpose in life that I had something that God wanted me to do all alone and and that's what I did and now since it's almost three years I'm at a better place I'm on the road towards healing and the people around the world Lord knows there were so many people they were like from so many different countries Japan China Israel Switzerland Germany Africa it was so beautiful to see them come together and stand in solidarity the Netherlands you know Sweden oh my goodness that outpour of love was something that I don't think I ever would have seen in my lifetime that was healing to me love is healing and in order to get through some type of to get through this um pain what I experienced in my faith with God is love for one another you can't heal with hate I mean I can hate it hate there and show it all day say he the worst this and all this but what good does that do I know what he did was horrendous was wrong Lord knows I don't his mind was in a place that I do not understand but people ask me do I hate mr chauvin I said no I don't hate that man I honestly don't because I know I don't want that hate to be I mean I don't want to be a prisoner of his hate I don't want my mind to be renting space thinking about him and hate where I'm better than that we all are better than that the community deserves better than that the world deserves better than that I hope that he himself can find a place of healing on his journey I really do because like I said it's not about mockery it's not about making fun of someone because he is a human being that I've heard you call him mr chauvin you know I was raised up down south and sometimes you raise up down south to give respect to people deserve respect that's how I was raised you know and um that's something naturally for me to do you know you know I wouldn't call him a name you would never hear me say that bastard I would never say that because I'm better than that yes I do the only thing that I wished is that he would have looked at my nephew as a human being because my nephew looked at him as one and the reason why I say that is because when you look at someone and you're desperate you don't ask a monster for help there's a chance that they're human that there's a chance that they're humanistic inside of them that they will respond and say I help you that's why my nephew kept saying to mr chauvin I can't breathe and their response well you're talking you must be breathing mocking and so it was his way of that hope that one percent chance that that humanistic was in him because you don't ask the monster for help you ask someone you think by chance as a humanistic need they will help you have um a number of students in the audience and and we also have faculty and staff and wonderful of the community and you know we come together um seeking I think all a better world and trying to figure out how we can be of service what is the the best strategy what's the best way to to utilize our time and our gifts and I wonder if you can talk about as you've gone on this journey what advice you can give because you talked about kind of not necessarily seeing yourself as an activist and not seeing yourself as one who could who could be this influential and um shape our thinking and our conversation and yet here you are so I wonder what have you learned from your journey into activism what I learned is is that you're going to be you have to be able to tap into that the unyielding courage that we all have is there it is there you just have to be able to tap into it and and believe in it and be passionate about it you have to be able to have that uncomfortable conversations and um whether you like the black no matter ratio are you know and I do meet if you are a white person and you want to fight for racial justice I meet a lot of white people that say you know I want to do something but I feel uncomfortable I'm going to say the wrong thing I want to make sure that I'm careful you know you don't need to do that you know I don't think you need to do that you just just you need to be yourself if you are uncomfortable it's because you've been comfortable too long I'm gonna say that again if you are uncomfortable it's because you've been comfortable too long so it's okay that you're uncomfortable you know you just have to get out there and just do it and and just know what you're fighting for is worth it is for the future generation will you get people that's going to be against you yes you know and just know as white activists we we love when the white people stand up besides they black life matter and all that but here's the cat here's the here's the catcher can you do that when the black people are not around we're not sitting at your dinner table that's when we need you to stand by us because when you do that what's happening we're standing together we're standing together because we're all going to experience it it's not just going to be about race it could be about someone or sexual orientation it could be about someone weight it could be about someone sex you know male or female that's going to be racism biases implicit biases but you have to be able to use your voice and to use your voice and that's what's important and if you're afraid to use your voice and you want to do it and you need help get someone to help you because i tell you that because those three officers wished they were used their voice they were they became paralyzed they didn't do it because they fell into this pattern well you know that's the supervisor you know he's over let him do it but you know it's wrong you got someone dying in front of you you are first you are first responders they were all certified CPR yeah i'm Minnesota police officers are certified CPR but they were paralyzed by somebody else by somebody else power and fear and there's a lot of people that way listen their own jobs that people go along with stuff but that's them they got in trouble and you know the boss was wrong why didn't you say anything why wasn't important for you not to say anything because you want to keep your job you got to touch into that that's what i'm saying this work is fearless but there's but be prepared to lose some things you may lose your job for standing up for somebody but guess what what you don't realize you harvest something that you're going to reap that's going to be bigger because that day is coming there's so many themes in the book courage being one of them which you just spoke to the other theme is spirituality and faith and i wonder if you can talk about that as part of your reservoir that you lean into i wonder if you can talk about that and that thread that shows up in your family story as well in terms of the the faith well you know i came from a very praying family especially my grandmother she went to church every Sunday you know and i never really got i heard stories about her i never got chance to chance to meet her but my mother told her so much and it passed through my mom and um and here's the thing about it when people are going when you're the press group and back in those times because my mother was born in 1925 so she was really born back in those times oh sometimes all you have is your faith you really do you don't really have much options or anything else and so that becomes something that you believe in and you believe so strongly in it that god allows you to take you through it you know you don't think about it not happening you know you just do it and and i think that the faith and the belief was something always been in me because it was passed down my great grandpa hillary you know that was got his free papers at eight years old you know and you know he accumulated 500 acres of land and he was excited about it turned around and lost him but guess what he never lost faith you know my mother and parents they they weren't educated at all all my mother wanted for her kids was to have a high school diploma because that's all she could see she couldn't see college for me but she wanted something big for me and big for me was a high school diploma but her faith and her determination that she instilled in me made me see something bigger and i ended up getting getting going to college you see what i'm saying and doing things so it's very important very important i i want to close with some of the questions from our students who are so inspiring and i know are very inspired by you and one of the things that that someone has asked about um is the writing of the book because it's allowed you to continue this convert this very very important conversation and i wonder if you can talk about this person wants to know what are the best what were the best and most challenging parts of writing this book the beginning was when i went the beginning of like okay because i had so much chaos in my head so many things i want to say how am i going to put this in the story because i wanted to be raw and what i was trying to do is that i wanted the best that i knew how to show how racism involved in the family and all the all the way through up to harry has killed it was that i wanted to show the best way i could about systemic racism and so getting started was always um the difficult it wasn't hard it was a struggle but once i got going i got going and then i think i stumbled um on the trial the trial part um not no one's gonna happen because i didn't want to write ahead of time what i was going to feel that was going to happen and so i kind of paused on that but then i picked back up and something just took off and i just went and i didn't stop i just kept writing you know so i thought they had writer's block about a couple times in the beginning then i paused and i just kept going you know it's your faith but here's the thing is i tell people i dealt with so many emotions there was time that they don't get wrong there were times i got mad i said i can't write anymore i'm tired or sometimes i just start crying when i think about harry can i get frustrated i get angry all over again but it was love that took me to the finish line absolutely do we build a movement that is sustainable oof that's sustainable you know what when the cameras have gone home how do you build a movement that's sustainable you know they have a lot of things in place now they just got to keep making modifications and improvements and you can't stop talking about it and you can't let it go and you can't let it just die down yeah there are going to be some moments where you don't hear anything but just because you don't hear something is going on don't mean that you can't plan and improve better ways of doing something there's always something to do or the work isn't happening sometimes it happens in a quiet way very deliberately right and sometimes you don't need all the action and protests that's happening sometimes people can can be in the movement behind the desk planning you know like i tell people if you can sing sing for justice if you can cook cook for justice if you can do artwork do be an artist for justice you don't have to be in the street for justice there's so many ways there are people right now that are doing incredible artwork for justice the movement has changed a lot of people careers it has given people careers you know graffiti artists have really there have been some graffiti artists have really have made a name for themselves through this work and it's just incredible to see so yeah that's to me i think is just keep it going i wonder if you can talk about self-care and the movement and in movement work you shared a little bit about your own process around surrounding yourself with love and feeling that enrichment what else have you seen what else have you observed where do we need to do better as it relates to supporting people who are active in racial justice work i think that um if i was if i was an employer and you know that you have people in the block type of work if they call in sick and say you know i'm burned out i need some time i'll give it to them because they really are needing that time because i mean it can wear you out it's a it's it's some of the most hardest work i have ever done in my life but it is the most rewarding work also so i think that there there should be mental health available not just for people in social movement you know there should always be i think some employees have that now where they have people that you can go in and talk to but what i find out they don't have it people aren't doing it it's not encouraged or they feel like you know i'm gonna work eight hours a day and go home and maybe one day i'm making an appointment to see somebody but the problem is it's not encouraged they just want you to work and you know if a problem show up you just deal with it you know these problems can be very serious you know exhausting exhausting we're not just in social justice there's workplace violence there's arguments that you have with your coworkers there's disagreement you know and there need to be a safe place where they can talk to someone where they can do self-discovery where they should be healing time out for yourself you know instead of look down on as not being strong enough it's not been strong enough right because what you're doing when you don't have the support when that happens you're creating a hostile environment you don't even know they don't even know they're creating a hostile i should say hostile or unpleasant environment but that person who's going through a difficult time yeah so my last question for you because we want to give people an opportunity to to uh uh check out the book and i i highly recommend this because i think we just scratched the surface in this conversation of all of the richness in this book but we have this conversation on the heels of martin luther king day and martin luther king week and arguably it should be martin luther king year and lifetime right to think about these issues and king famously asked where do we go from here how would you answer that monumental question it's a monumental question i'm going to put you like this and i hope to answer the question when i think about everything that happened at my nephew death there's two words that came to me and someone mentioned to me and i've taken those two words unfortunate gift unfortunate because i lost the family on my niece lost the father the community like some member but the gift is that parry left the gift to use your voice he left that gift for each and every one of you to use your voice to speak out when you see injustice and so my monumental um lesson if y'all may call it that is i'm gonna say it and say it over again you've got to have the courage to speak out when you see something that is not okay the book is called lift your voice lift your voice your voice how my nephew george floyd's murder changed the world the force is named angela herrickson and it has been an honor and a gift to be in conversation with you and i am so sorry that we are in conversation over such horror and trauma and violence and white supremacy and racism and i just hope and pray that out of that comes the beauty of our voices of our conversation of our activism of our love for each other of our support for each other as fellow human beings so may that come out yes of this trauma thank you so so much thank you and thank all of you thank you thank all of you so much y'all are beautiful people thank you so we have a reception outside for those joining us virtually please pick up the book and we also want to share that songs for democracy will be tomorrow 7 30 hill auditorium 7 30 it is another event for democracy and debate for martin luther king weekend it is our next time to gather together please join us for that and in the immediate please join us for this reception right outside thanks so much thank you thank you