 Welcome everybody to another episode of the nonprofit show Fridays are some of our favorite days because it's ask and answer and every Friday We get to get one of the brain Trust folks from fundraising Academy to come with us and explore the questions that people Send in tweet in I guess we should say X in Ask on the street. I was part of a panel this week movie for something unrelated to the nonprofit show and somebody asked me During this panel or like at the end of the panel came up to me and said hey Can you put this question on an upcoming episode? Don't put my name, but ask this question I mean so you know what I mean? It's kind of a fun thing again I'm Julia Patrick CEO of the American nonprofit Academy been joined today by Mui Kauaja trainer from fundraising Academy and also Interestingly enough the co-founder of the American Muslim Community Foundation Which we are going to get him on to just specifically talk about his journey with that community foundation and and what that looks like and and how he's been able to integrate his Knowledge and work with fundraising Academy into that as somebody that's had to go out and pound the pavement So we're really looking forward to that and and we will rope him into that shortly, you know at the the American nonprofit Academy started the nonprofit show at the outside the onset really of the pandemic and most of these sponsors Said yes that first week and they include Bloomerang American nonprofit Academy your part-time controller non-profit thought leader Fundraising Academy at National University where movie joins us from staffing boutique non-profit nerd and non-profit tech talk if you've missed any Of our nine hundred nearly nine hundred episodes or you want to share them? Check us out. We have a fabulous app You can catch us on streaming broadcasts portals where you or you like to engage with that or in podcast format So we will be with you wherever you are Okay, my friend ready for the first question. This is a doozy Such an interesting question I am the board liaison and I'm having issues with older board members who can't use our meeting technology in board portal Do you have any suggestions that can help us get to our older board members? Up to date so they can be up to date big question. I I swear to you I Do a lot of work about board liaisons and board work. I get this question all the time and it's a it's a deep frustration Yeah, so I'll have two things I'll share, you know, just having moved back to Michigan after traveling all this time I'm now back with my parents for a few months and it's a great time really is and I am Their IT tech person, right? I am connecting the internet I'm making sure their devices are up to date and I am making sure they can print wirelessly All of the things right so Times it just takes That hand-holding approach and saying why don't we grab a coffee? We'll log you in I'll show you how to access everything Now if there's resistance there, that's a whole other issue, right? But you know similarly at AMCF we have a board member who's you know, probably in his 50s not even that old I would say and Just still, you know Getting into the Gmail environment getting into Slack Two-factor authorization. Oh my goodness like all of these things, right? It happens and it sometimes it takes weeks and months to figure it out, but you just got to make that extra effort to Tie any loose ends and see what are the challenges in the technology in the portal And how can they make the user experience easier for people who may have some challenges with technology? You know, I agree with you and it's interesting because you know, Nancy comes from Palo Alto and That's the you know, the pretty much this point a Silicon Valley Isn't that isn't that interesting and I would imagine if Nancy had written in from like Denver or Cincinnati or you know, I don't know where it might be a little different sense because she's probably in a in an environment where things are all tech all the time Super high functioning and then it doesn't take that much Not to be Functioning with some of these new portals and stuff and so I really like what you said It's not a one-and-done thing. You can't just like meet up and say okay Here's how you do it boom boom boom boom boom. You're gonna have to kind of work with them on a journey build some confidence I Find that with my mom when I'm helping her with you know with tech And I am the same way I like to write everything down. I like to write the steps down so that I can go back to my notes and refer to it It's not a you know quick. I'll just show you and it's gonna be you know seated in the brain So it is a process Now I agree with you or I'm kind of curious before we move on to the next question If you do have somebody who's resistant and says why can't you just send me? You know snail mail me the board packet. We did that for years and that was fine. What do you how do you navigate that? So I think the Navigating challenging board members is a whole other beast in and of itself, right? It's the personalities involved. Maybe you're just not the best person on the staff to deal with it Put in somebody else on the you know tag team get them into the ring Have them jump off the top ropes and suplex the board member in a very gentle way See what you can do to manage egos manage personalities learn the psychology of the Board member we talk a lot at fundraising academy about Social styles and what type of don't you know personality the board member has So that's something to look into and see who is the best person on your staff Or maybe do a joint approach with the board member who is Providing this resistance and get down to the crux of it you know, that's a very wise thing is to Embrace that concept of social style and how you communicate and I I appreciate what you said You know you the board the board liaison that writes in Nancy may not be the best person to navigate this and to own it and say okay How do we pull somebody in and how do we allow somebody to champion? This process because you're gonna have to you're gonna have to get through it. Absolutely. Well, really interesting Nancy We wish you luck. I feel your pain sister. I really do because I've been there and it's tough Okay, let's move on to oh, you know my favorite name with held from Tampa, Florida We had a major donor call us about a new donor who they think is not a quote-unquote Nice person from our community the older donor who has always been supportive made some alarming declarations about this new donor help Wow Yeah, you know alarming declarations That causes me to pause Is it things around how they earn their wealth? Is it things around their personality is it things about their political stance in the community? Is it things about how they treat others? is it You know around allegations of misconduct in the workplace or personally professionally Yeah, there's a lot that is undisclosed but I think the best way to Receive this is to thank the older donor for their concern And let them know that you've taken note of it but then proceed with a grain of salt in approaching the new donor and Maybe just have that in the back of your mind But don't let it affect the relationship with the nonprofit unless it is really alarming And then you can make a decision is this somebody's gift that we don't want to accept it because their values don't align with our values So I could see both sides of it, but I would just kind of do the politically correct thing in this situation and assess it for yourself before making a Straight-on decision just based on the older donors inclinations Have you ever done that like where you quote-unquote refund the the money or Extricate yourself from a donor and could you maybe share that journey without disclosing who it was? Yeah, no, I've I've been in conversations where donors have offered support And before they gave had to decline based on alignment of The gift and what they were expecting Not necessarily because they were a Bad person and we didn't want to accept their money But it just wasn't good alignment or fit with the vision and mission of the organization and what the donor Was hoping to achieve with the gift and it was actually better placed at another nonprofit And I gave them references to that nonprofit and they actually end up giving a gift to the other nonprofit That strengthened the relationship with the donor oddly enough The other nonprofit was appreciative of the recommendation as a philanthropic advisor It allowed me to gain more respect with the donor because I could have easily accepted the money right But then it became this friendship advisor relationship going forward and They often ask me like hey, I'm thinking of setting up a scholarship for this or hey I'm thinking of building wells in Developing countries what are your thoughts on this organization or so they just come back to me for advice on on this And they're not even a donor advice fund holder at AMCF. This is just like somebody who they really should be right? Yeah Yeah, so that's the thing yeah, so two things come to mind if you think about that the cause selling cycle that Fundraising Academy works on, you know the very two first pieces our discovery Research really looking, you know, you're you know, you're not even thinking about asking You're trying to really determine if the fit is good and if the if this is can be a long-term relationship and So I'm fascinated. You must have done that somehow because you said before they ever gave You were you were having this discussion about the alignment. It wasn't oh crap We cashed the check and we spent the money and now what are we gonna do? I mean, right? Does that make sense? Yeah, I mean sometimes I kind of wish I was in that scenario where I did accept a gift and Later had to have a tough conversation with the donor saying, you know, you gave this as an unrestricted gift And then now you're saying after the fact you want it to go towards x y and z Let's have these conversations prior to you giving like I'd love to have that conversation with a donor as a teaching moment to share like you can't be giving what strings attached and Also, hopefully being able to then benefit the organization still in unrestricted giving So I can see it go both ways and I can play a hard line on behalf of the Organization and on behalf of the donor. So Yeah, but I definitely agree having these discovery meetings Asking the right questions getting clarity on what they want to support and matching that with the mission and vision of the organization is super critical Well, and I think you know to take this to the next level I've personally been involved as a board member with a named Part of a camp of a large campus for art for a nonprofit where something Untoward happened with the naming right the person who a big part of our campus was named after and There wasn't what we used to call the bad boy clause in the MOU in the memo of understanding where the contract that spelled out How you extricate yourself from from certain things Tough lesson learned because it ended up being played out in the media Yeah, and another reason why gift agreements are so important Yeah, yeah, I mean that's like a whole nother thing. Well name withheld I think we has given you some great advice and Hopefully we will help you along that journey check back in with us DeVita from Colorado Springs, Colorado writes who takes the lead in making sure that board members fulfill their board service requirements We have some on the board who say it is the board chair and others think it is the CEO We could use some guidance on this You know mookie when I first got this I thought it was probably more like the Give or get meeting attendance, you know filling tables at certain Events, you know, so I'm thinking that's part of that board service requirement and who monitors and who who manages and Who enforces it? Who's the hammer that comes down on that board member? It's a good question Yeah DeVita be helpful to know what's your role within the organization? Are you a board member? Are you a staff member a CDO? someone on the development team Or the CEO yourself so You know part of me wants to say the onus is on the board member themselves they should be signing an agreement They should be understanding what the requirements are The bylaw should clearly dictate what these requirements are for the organization and board members knowing their term limit what the minimum gift that they're giving should be and How they show up and serve on committees within the organization so if they And we have had board turnover at AMCF. We have had low engagement at other boards that Been part of that organizations People love to help but they also bite off more than they can chew. Yes, that's just common fact and I think working with these board members should be Joint effort because the board chair is likely their peer The CEO reports to the board Right, so they can have some authority In the situation, but I think the board chair really needs to lead by example and Enforce the requirements The advice can come from the CEO. Yes And maybe stronger in a joint way, but it won't be as effective if the board chair is not Owning it in some way as well Yeah, I kind of follow along the same lines as you I mean first and foremost this needs to be Structured communicated laid out and there needs to be an agreement and those agreements I believe should be managed every December December prior to the next year a lot of organizations wait until January and then it's like March But time by the time everything comes in it's like no Do it the year before so everybody understands moving forward for the year and you know, moohi you've heard me talk about it I'm a big big proponent of a board liaison and so I agree. I think that the board chair is the one responsible for this But the board liaison should be that person tracking it and doing the gentle reminder or asking, you know, where folks are You know that kind of a thing, especially if you have an organization. I was working with somebody Last week and they told me they ran five boards So they had the main, you know board of directors and then they had basically auxiliary boards, right and I was just like I Actually said well kill me now I don't know how you can do your work and run that many boards and have all these, you know filtering aspects of what they need to be doing Without some sort of major support. So yeah, it's a very interesting question and it needs to be spelled out I think also, you know, I had the game so everybody knows Whose responsibility it is and they can navigate it so it doesn't get To be a bigger problem, right at the end of the year, you're like wow, Sally You were supposed to have done this this this and that and you didn't it's a little late, right? Definitely and I think AMCF has our annual meeting. So this is exactly when we do that We bring the whole board together. They review the bylaws the articles of incorporation This and anything internal so This is exactly dealt with at that time Then we have a separate Retreat for the strategic plan and we do that annually as well. So two different meetings two different agendas One is more internally focused. The other is externally focused But both super critical to the Organizations health Yeah, absolutely. Well DeVita, good luck I think this is a really important thing to you know navigate and to understand and to manage because Otherwise you get a lot of hurt feelings and you get people that get really cranky and then you're not working on the mission You're working on something that's kind of an internal function that should have been managed. So Anyway, okay, now this is an interesting interesting question And this doesn't happen very often, but somebody wrote in a question for you my friend Mouhi Kwaja Mouhi, I've been watching you for a while on the nonprofit show. My question is this How long did it take for you to build confidence and become such a strong fundraiser? That's so nice Steve. Thank you so much for writing in and watching You know part I feel like I've always had a strong sense of Organizational skill leadership skill dating back to like high school and different sports different clubs So I have to give credit to being like the youngest of four siblings So having older siblings that showed me what it was like Being in those leadership positions I have to thank like my mentors along the way jack a lot of who's been on the show frequently and many others who've Uplifted me and gave me the confidence to be a strong fundraiser and then role models like Malcolm X and Martin Luther King and Muhammad Ali fierce strong voices for social justice And people still with us today like Linda Sarsour and Rashida Tlaib and So many others so I think you know I Give it back to to them And then it was you know ever since my first job right out of College at the University of Michigan through development summer internship program. That was so foundational and critical for me in building my confidence as a fundraiser and my mentor there Kat Walsh, so Yeah, I would say have mentors who have the confidence and are strong fundraisers because Who you surround yourself with will reflect who you become So yeah, I think it goes back to the people that I've surrounded myself with And one other leader that I'll give a shout out to is Farhan Latif He was with me at University of Michigan He's now the president foundation at El Hibri Foundation so just kind of like seeing this trajectory of these people in their career and reaching out to them every few months and just picking their brain and Yeah, but my whole experience from the small nonprofits. I've been a one-person development team At to the Red Cross where I was a frontline fundraiser as a major gift officer for five years So it's like a lot of it's experiential as well And having the opportunity to be in those places So what I hear you say two things. It's like you probably had something like Is a part of your makeup, you know and as a child moving through But is it fair to say that you're not fully baked that you're you're still You know building confidence or do you feel like no, you've got this It's just a matter of doing what you know, you're supposed to do Yeah, you know saying because it's like yeah, it seems like you're still taking in Advice and in that piece. Yeah for sure and imposter syndrome is real like the last year and a half Like I stepped away from AMC F a lot We had a ED they just resigned a few months ago. So now I'm stepping back in and owning what is there And the opportunity and everything that comes with that And I think that I'm a lifelong learner. I'm always gonna have a mentor. I'll always mentee I'll always be a mentor to somebody else And I learn a lot through that experience So I definitely think that You have to stay hungry if you want to be A lifelong learner and just somebody who's making a difference. Yeah, it's cool I like that because I when I read that question. I thought it's gonna be like A specific time frame. I needed three years. I needed six years and seven months or whatever But I I appreciate the that it's a journey and it's a continual It's a flow and it's there's not like a hard-baked answer To that. So that's cool. Well, um, you know, I love chatting with you muhi because I feel like you You bring a different perspective of What it takes to be in this environment? How you navigate, you know, different things professionally Personally, you've always been very transparent in your your own personal journey and and as a man of faith I love all that that blend and so it's been really cool And it continues to be cool muhi kawaja. I'm a trainer with fundraising academy co-founder of the american muslim community foundation Such an interesting journey that you've taken and that you continue to do In the green room chatter you were talking about all of the amazing places that you've been just in the last like 15 days It seems like, you know talking and serving on panels and sharing your knowledge and your wisdom So we thank you for that muhi from our sector. It's really a powerful thing that you do and that you share Again, we want to thank Oh, it's it's it's amazing. I always get to put I always put myself on when you're going to be on I'm always like I want to do I want to be the one that talks with him because I'm fascinated Hey, everybody. We have amazing sponsors Bloomerang American non-profit academy your part-time controller non-profit thought leader Fundraising academy at national university staffing boutique Non-profit nerd and non-profit tech talk. These are the folks that join us day in and day out And you know, I know muhi knows this but but you as our viewer listener might not Realize these amazing sponsors of ours. Um, they don't exert any editorial control So we can talk about what it is We feel like we need to talk about I mean muhi you you made the comment early on in today's episode about Unrestricted funding and in some ways our sponsors are like that to us. They They trust us and um, and we we get to really chat day in and day out Across the board so many different things. And so that's really an amazing thing that they partner with us So muhi it is now fray. Yay as gerrit ransom the non-profit nerd would say We're going to hopefully get some rest And then we will hit it hard again on monday and as we like to end every episode of the non-profit show We want to remind our viewers listeners our guests and ourselves To stay well So you can do well muhi. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful weekend