 Welcome to episode 15 of the 1878 FM podcast. It's me, Ped. I've got David, Andy Bush is with us for once. Oh yeah, it's finally. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm on a roll. I'm on a roll. Is this two on the trot? I've done this trot. Yeah. Two games back to back. He's right. He's getting like- He's calling me Andross Bush. Don't want to carve him living. Baz has fallen to the illness that has gone. I don't know, yeah. I don't know what he's been doing to get ill, but he is out of action. You know what that means though, don't you, Ped? Go on. That's right. I do claim the mantle as being the only person from the beginning of this podcast to have played every minute. There you go. The only one remaining member. It's like when Buck's Fizz, one of the fellas of Buck's Fizz when he did his own Buck's Fizz. And like a couple of other people involved, but it was just him on his own. I can't remember the name of this. He did it with the fella from Dollar. Do you remember Dollar? Oh, yeah. Mark will be the same as him. They had similar hair and faces. And didn't the Dollar man, didn't he end up running like a takeaway van or a kebab van somewhere? Wasn't it some mad story like that? David Van Day. And weirdly enough, he's doing a pub New Year's Eve entertainment around the corner from us here. This coming to New Year's Eve, yeah. Well, I mean, maybe the catering as well. Maybe we should come along, Mr. Bush. It'll be good. Christmas party. He clearly made a big done, didn't he? We're getting off. So basically, Dave, what you're saying is you're the Tony Hibbert of the podcast. Yeah, I'm the Tony Hibbert of the podcast. You know, always reliable. Yeah, absolutely. Never, never, never the best at anything. Get to school. Always, always here, you know, and, and yeah, sort of complimented more on my attendance and my performance. I like to think. There you go. England are out the World Cup, which has devastated the nation, apparently. Not that I'm aware of it, but it has apparently devastated the nation. But England went out to France on Saturday night and, you know, this and that. England have done all right in the World Cup. I don't think they've been amazing. I think anyone's been amazing. But David being, you know, does there really need to be a big, you know, a big thing that made about this? Was it just a case of getting beat by another decent footballing team? I think it was getting beat by another decent footballing team. And also, I think it was, it was not taking any chances and being slightly unlucky on the night as well. I don't think there was a huge amount between it, to be honest with you. But, you know, France are a good side. I thought England went out with a bit of a whimper, to be honest with you. I mean, I think that's, that's a bit that's disappointing. Is that it just sort of just went, didn't it? And it was just like, here we go again. And but they've done well, you know, and I don't think we should be too crestfallen about it. I think they've had a decent tournament. I think there's been some good performances. I don't think that really any blame should be labelled towards Garrett Southgate or anybody. You know, Harry Kane, Mr. Penalty, these things happen. I mean, he's normally ever reliable. So it wasn't even like you could kind of question the decision making of actually having him step up for that pen. Because normally he buries them. So, you know, it's one of those things. I'm not too down about it, to be honest with you. I mean, it's just a bit like. Because there's been, I think we talked about this before on the podcast, but I think there's been a change where we've gone from, you know, Brave But Crap, Terry Butcher, Bleeding, headband type thing, where we're, you know, valiantly failing. I remember going out, you know, when we went out in Euro 96, I had to go for like a walk with some friends and just calm down and had a beer on the beach and all that kind of stuff. And I was devastated was this time, I think we've changed into a team that a little bit like what we used to admire about Germany, kind of a bit more cold and clinical and in control. And there's less highs and lows with England. It's just a constant rotation of the ball. It's a little bit more mechanical, isn't it? So you don't get that kind of like heroic gaza an inch away from poking the ball in with his toe. What if moment it just the game kind of ended and just kind of got on with making the tea. And it was just like Dave said, it was just kind of a strange, do I prefer it? Because obviously it was really painful and horrible when we've been out in, you know, tears and churin and all that kind of stuff. It's less painful than that. But it's definitely a new experience to get used to as being an England fan because it's just a, it's a different, we're now playing football the way that we always kind of wanted to play football. Wish we played like those guys and seem less bothered by the highs and lows of how a game might go and be a bit more kind of constant. But with that comes a slight disengagement that happens with the fans. And I'll tell you, I mean, it hasn't helped by it being in Qatar and with some weird atmospheres, but I felt kind of disengaged from the whole thing all the way through. Yeah. I mean, I have to say, I mean, as a tournament, we said this before, you know, much as there's a lot of weirdness with it being in Qatar and a lot of things that we wouldn't necessarily agree with. But on a footballing basis, I think it's actually been a great tournament. Yeah. I think there's been some really, really good, good games and some really interesting results. And, you know, even now when we look at what the Semis hold, you know, the fact that Morocco and Croatia are in there, you know, is I think is really good. And also, I mean, I suppose that's the only real disappointment in so much as it's been so open. And there were so many big teams went out, you know, in the early-ish stages that, you know, you could argue that England have never had a better chance to get to a final, which I suppose that's one thing which is maybe a little bit disappointing because the path was there in front of them. But, you know, France was never and was never going to be an easy one to get past. And, you know, I'm genuinely interested in seeing what the Semis hold, you know, and who actually gets there. Because honestly, at the moment based upon what's happened thus far, you wouldn't really bet on anybody. You know, you wouldn't necessarily bet on Argentina beating Croatia at the time of recording, by the way, we're doing this on Tuesday morning so that game hasn't happened yet. But same with France and Morocco. You know, you just don't know. Yeah, it's weird. Just going back to the England thing as well, I do feel, as you mentioned, we don't have a killer... He hasn't got another gear, has he, Southgate? He's probably going to keep on with the job because I can't imagine anyone else doing it at the moment. It's kind of very much... Although Poch has come out saying that he'd take it though, hasn't he? Really? Yeah, he said that this morning, yeah, yeah. God, it's weird, isn't it? I'm not too sure what will happen. You know, there was a bit after half-time, the start of the second half, where France were having a bit of a wobble and we were on top, and he just doesn't... He doesn't go for it. Do you remember the Euro's final where Italy were all over the place for 15 minutes, arguing amongst themselves, and he just cage-league sits back and keeps at the same pace. There's no change in things. So I feel like you're right. We kind of missed an opportunity to maybe put them to bed a little bit better and just kind of got eased out of the game, really. Yeah, I think it's the trade-off, isn't it, with Southgate? I think you're both right what you're saying. It's probably been the best England team I think I've seen as a squad probably in my lifetime. I think there's been better teams, probably like 96, as you said, and more characters, but as a team what you can see is you can see an evolving, and I think in 18 months with Foudin being a little bit older and Jude Bellingham being a little bit older and maybe if he can get a better centre-back in, I think you'll see it evolve again. I think the Wally for me with Southgate, he's got a really nice group there and he's done really well to put them together. It's just whether he's got that killer attitude with the likes of Subs and got that coldness to leave people out. But then just without knowing too much about it, I've been looking at some of the stories about Eddie Jones, the rugby union guy, who seems to be a born winner, by the way, and has won things with England and Australia and stuff, but the stories coming out about him are absolutely horrific. Like the way he treats people and what he demands of the players. And it's like that weird trade-off, isn't it? Like, do you want an absolute winner who may ruffle a few feathers on my cause of disharmony within the squad, or do you want a nice guy like Southgate who actually builds this great squad to make sure the media don't put too much pressure on them and create a scenario for players to grow into, which we may not have seen yet. We may have just had a decent squad, but it's ready to kick on now with a few of these younger players taking over the mantle from some of the older players. And it's fine in that balance, and I don't know whether at international level you need that sort of really hard-nosed thing, because you have done once a month if you're lucky. You know, it's not like Southgate grabs old of the Man City plays and goes, oh, I'll show you something Pep hasn't shown you. That's not happening, is it, really? All he's there to do is put a team together and make subs. I think he's the right man for it, because he's a nice balance, but, you know, Andy, as you said, there have been opportunities. And there's certainly opportunities on Saturday where you're thinking, why wasn't Marcus Rashford on 10-minute area? Why did he take Sacker off? Why 1-1, did he not just grab all the Jordan Henderson, get him off and say, we've got rice, and we've got these and we're going to have a go? And it's a really fine line. They've got a cane problem going on at the moment, which I think is the same problem that Tottenham have got with him where he's doing that thing where Strikers get, maybe their pace goes a little bit and they start to drop deeper and deeper and then there's no one on the end. Something's happened to him though, he's getting the ball a lot deeper and it disperses the same problem with him, which is maybe one of the reasons why they've gone for a Charleston and all that kind of stuff as well. So they've got to address that, I think, England, because that's quite a clear problem that's come through in this tournament is that Cain isn't on the end of any of these things. He's putting the ball in more times than anything else, doesn't he? Do you know what I mean? So how do we deal with that? And I would love to have seen Callum Wilson just allowed to maraud for the last 10 minutes of the game. So what would have happened there? I would have as well. I was before the tournament took off and before the squabbers and I was meeting Barsworth, someone who would be in it. I mean, Barsworth thought Domino Carvalho, you're not the chance. I was like, no, Callum Wilson's flying. He's flying, your puff play is in. And actually I was a little bit disappointed. Madison never got a few minutes. I know he'd been injured, but I was a little bit disappointed. Just someone who hadn't been involved and I know Callum Wilson was involved in the Iran game, but just someone just to change it up a little bit. But, you know, that's not how football for you, isn't it? It can be hard. And I just both said they didn't go out with a whimper or such. I think they give everything they could, but it was at the end of the game. It wasn't... I think we love, don't we, as English or even British people, love that hard-look story. Or as Evertonians, if we get beat, but we can complain about something like the referee and decision, it sort of takes the edge away or gives us something to moan about. I think it's a very English thing having something to moan about. I think it was, yeah, maybe going out with a whimper is a wrong expression, but I think it's just the way in which it happened where you get a clock running out and you just knew it was just going, wasn't it? You knew that there wasn't going to be that last gasp dance at the end. You knew it was just the clock was going down, England were going out. We all sort of accepted it. The ref was a bit of a dickhead though, wasn't it? The ref, yeah, the ref was a dick. Apparently he's going to get the final. Yeah, I know. He's nailed on for that, which is incredible. But go back to Gareth Southgate for a minute. I agree with you. I think that whatever happens with Gareth, whether he does continue or indeed whether somebody else comes in, I think that the greatest achievement for him will have been in terms of changing the culture of the England setup. I remember hearing this from journalist mates of mine a long time ago when he first came in and just said that they'd gone to St. George's Park and having reported on England before and having been inside the camp under the stewardship of different managers, the atmosphere was wholly different, but in a much better way. It was much more open. It was much more relaxed. And this is something which he's instilled in there. And it was great seeing the players with their families and what not afterwards. And yeah, I mean, they look like a happy bunch and they look relaxed and they look like they play for each other. And that's really important. And I think that can't be underestimated in terms of that as an achievement, whether you want somebody who's more of a for want of a better term, a hothead who's going to make those difficult decisions. But don't forget, though, that's also, that's a 50-50 call. And that can be divisive as well, because, you know, you can be that hothead that gets it right that time and hauls off that star player and puts somebody on and they score the winner. But, you know, by the same token, you make those rash decisions and you get it wrong and you've got just as much chance of getting it wrong half the time. You know, then suddenly you get pilloried and you're on the front page of the papers. So I think all around, I think Gareth is a good, steady mix of all sorts of things. And I think when you look at his time in charge, I mean, again, we're saying it like he's finished. And actually, I don't want to see him go, but I think he's had a really, really good career thus far as an England manager. And I wouldn't be in any rush to swap him personally. Also as well, the England manager now needs to comment on a range of different subjects that normally they wouldn't have been asked to comment on, you know, like politics and ethics and all that kind of stuff. And I just think he's got a really good way of dealing with the media like that. We might not have got, I would say, Aladise was still there or something like that. It's a different, it's just, I feel like the job's changed. The England job has changed quite a lot actually now. And it's almost like part of an institution rather than like all about that one manager's personality. It's a bit more continuity with it, which is a good thing. And as you were saying, Dave, I think the England team and the way that they are as ambassadors for the country, it's quite good. They've come a long way since the dentist's chair and all that kind of stuff. Whereas we might sometimes want a bit more of that kind of rogue, those old days of a rogue, I think going forwards and progressing as a footballer nation, then we are definitely going in the right direction. We've moved on, I mean, in a good way. We've moved on from the dentist's chair celebration to Jackery. Let's do a celebration for a young lad on the pitch. That's got to be progress, hasn't it? Yeah, I agree. That's got to be progress. And actually, I think it's in his hands, isn't it? It'll be up to him whether he wants to keep it. And I do agree with you what you just said there. Andy, he's like, I'm not a particular England fan of such, it's a snot. In me, if they lose, I just go, oh, well, and that's the end of it. But what I do look at, as I do look at the squad and go, this is a really likable set of people who I think represent the country really, really well. And that's what he's instilled. But one thing I do think about South Gators, I really fear for him if he goes into a club system again. Because I just, I look at him and I don't, you know, all those nice things we just said to him. I think they'd go against him if he went back into the club game. I just don't think those things are applicable. I think you have to be really hard-nosed. I think you have to have a really an edge to you. I think you have to keep certain things away from the media when you're the manager. And I think that stuff would work against them. And I think it has changed. I think international management now is completely different to club management. It's almost, it is a place for people who've just got, you know, good man management skills and don't have to deal with all that other stuff that, you know, club managers have to deal with. It's more coaches, isn't it? It's more like a collection now of, I was looking at all the managers and I didn't recognise very many of them in the World Cup. It was a bit like playing pro evos, like generic managers with suits and shirts and ties running around, celebrating. And it's a bit more of like a coach. It's more like someone who works within an institution or like a thing rather than a lightning conducting single, you know, personality, Capello type thing. I agree. I think those days have gone out, aren't they? I agree. And I think, yeah, he's almost too smart and sophisticated for that now, isn't he? You know, you can't really see him getting his hands dirty. You could see him maybe in some kind of more senior role. I mean, whether like a director of football's role maybe. And if he was to do that, where would he do it? Maybe somewhere like Middlesbrough. He's still based up in the Northeast, I believe. You know, I don't know, but you could see him more in that role rather than, you know, in a dugout. I agree with you. It just feels a little bit incongruous to kind of see him there on a piss where Tuesday night, you know, away at Burnley or something like that. It just doesn't feel right. I think Henry Winters suggested he should maybe look at becoming the technical director for England and, you know, take the step upstairs and then maybe let someone else come in. And that person might be one of these names that everyone gets thrown at it, whether it be Eddie Howard or even a Frank Lampard, I think that could be, as Andy suggested it, the under-21s manager or the under-19s manager. Because that just seems the way it is now. That seems the way it's gone, you know, rather than, you know, champion Stephen Gerrard or someone like that. Just, you know, keep that continuity and the next person comes in who, oddly enough, would be Lee Carsley, who played for Ireland. But that never, that doesn't matter. No, no, but to be, going back to what I think you said before, David, I think it has been a really good tournament and someone suggested to me over the weekend on Twitter, he said, that's it. I'm finished with the Whale Cup now. And I was like, what? Just like what? We're in the semi-finals, we've got the final on Sunday. It's the Whale Cup. England, they're out. What's new about that? Yeah. Like, why would you stop watching now? This is where it gets good. Yeah, I don't understand that. I really don't understand that. You know, England aren't in there, for I'm not interested anymore. I mean, I just think that's nonsense. I think also, possibly because, you know, like you, Peddan, I think we're all probably of the same opinion that I've never had the huge passion for England as a fan. I don't know. I mean, you have a huge passion for your own club and then you watch England games. But I've never ever, and it's a strange one actually because I've actually, I've been away, I've been away to England games not actually through my own choice because I would never have gone to the effort or the expense to have followed England to a major tournament. And I've been there in a works capacity but it's been an interesting eye line to be there with those fans and how completely not part of it I felt. If that makes any sense. I felt no, I felt no kind of allegiance in the same way, you know, when you go and watch, when you go and follow your club home and away and you feel, and football is tribal and we all know this and you feel part of it and you all have a common interest and a common bond and a common identity. And I just never, ever felt that being part of an England crowd travelling to the stadium on the underground. Who are those people those days? What are those people that go and watch England? They are fans of lower league teams, let's get it right. Do you know what they are? And I don't mean this to be too, you know, disparaging of them. But they tend to be people who don't have their own football identity themselves. And you find this is that in the past when there's been, for example and again, I'm not trying to make them all out to be hooligans, et cetera, et cetera but when you have had trouble before and you've had a rest before with England fans travelling away and you find that they're so and so from Wellingbro in Northamptonshire or they're from Basingstoke or they're from Bloody Totnes in Devon or they're from wherever, you know, places that don't have their own, you know, real football identity. They tend to be from Nowheresville and therefore in the absence of their own football identity they kind of latch onto the national side in my opinion. That's a huge and broadly sweeping statement and there'll be many people who would disagree with me but I think that there is certainly those that use England as a crutch for the absence of their own football identity. You have to look at the flags to see where they come from. And I don't think that is and I don't think that's a negative connotation you've just said Dave, Dave, I just think you're absolutely right, we, I mean of the three of us, I mean I'm obviously slap bang in the city I live two miles away on a good day which is very really, I can easily run to Goddison not to do that very often but and that's my life and I would, I've just never felt I felt a little bit when I was a kid and you know, you soon grow out of it and I think other things can come into it like geopolitics and these kind of things when you start looking around and looking and thinking I don't know if I have the same opinions as those people who go and but it is, it is just about identity isn't it? You see this in America as well they have a real swell of, you know, the same patriotism because they don't have football clubs or American football clubs or any sport right always where they live so they're going to like onto the big thing and I think I think in a way doesn't, you know growing up and I've been to a lot of European games away from home and I've been to I've been to just a lot of games in general in Europe that don't involve everything and I think you sort of just, you're laying out a behaviour to be around other people but certainly just going to big games you're laying that and I think the problem with hooliganism over the years which is which obviously started this sort of way of how we look at England fans is that a lot of these people do come from small places and maybe the only time they did go to abroad as such might have been to on it at the time in 18 to 30 or whatever so I think that's who they are I do think that's evolved a bit though recently as well because of this team and because a lot of people now see themselves in this team as well where as before and it did let's be honest used to be 11 white fellas you know playing for the national side and a lot of people couldn't recognise themselves in those people and now a lot of people do recognise do recognise themselves so therefore it's becoming, it's expanding I think who does support England who wants England to do well Yeah and I agree with you I agree with you I mean the main thing is it's just been a nice break it's been a nice break from Everton I was talking to my dad about the boxing day game and I kind of forgotten about it restarting and I was like oh is it a little bit longer or something just like one more week maybe the new year let's get the festive period out the way or August would work would it be good though if every year you could bid for deferment and you can finish 5th from bottom and call it now don't play any more games also as you say just putting a nice because as the thing stands at the moment we've stayed up let's call it now give them a break, everyone's tired, everyone's injured we've declared yeah declare, let's declare this should be a concept of declaring there you go yeah so we've obviously got 3 games left, 4 if you include the 3rd and 4th place, no one ever does I don't know why they do that I don't know why they do that game no one's asked, no one wants to be said in the world cup no one could care less, they just don't want to go home so we've got the 3 games left 2 semi finals, obviously the final on Sunday just one thing before we move on from the world cup are you aware that in 3 and a half years time the world cup will have 48 teams in it I didn't know that and they will be looking to do group games of just 3 teams and that will be it and then you'll be into the there'll be an extra knockout round why are they changing that well this has been in place since 2016 that 2026 would be 48 teams now I love the world cup but that just seems like an overkill for me, that just seems like massive massive overkill surely that can only be a sorry Andy, that can only be a financial decision surely, from FIFA really? I mean it's hard as it is to believe that actually FIFA's decision making could be based entirely on revenue but this is what pisses me off about them these decisions which in my opinion are not made for the betterment of the game or the tournament but actually are probably just lining somebody else's pockets one would possibly assume but not necessarily the opinion of me or indeed the podcast as a whole, thank you well I remember there was a video game called FIFA 98 the road to the world cup do you remember that? I do and what you're supposed to do is take over an international team and get them to the world cup so it kind of brought in the qualification process as part of the game and it was just awful, it went on forever it makes you realise how boring that whole bit is I know they've tried to jazz it up a little bit but God if they add more into that when you actually get to the tournament there's even more games then it's just going to push you over the edge apparently there won't be any more games for each team each team will play the same amount of games now if they get to the final there won't be seven games so there won't be any extra games because you'll take one game on the group stage and then you'll add that on to the next stage but it means that me and no teams will only play two teams two games why would you be asked it'll be the first world cup where all six continents will have a team guaranteeing it so that the Australasia one will have a team and it guaranteed which will be New Zealand because the rest of them are just the little tiny islands yeah but 48 just seems like it just seems like a massive overkill to me and again there's three countries holding it so I don't know whether that play your partner they maybe didn't know how to hadn't figured out how to get all three teams in it so that's what we've got to look forward to in America, Mexico and Canada in three and a half years time maybe World Cups is just nostalgia maybe it's just a thing of the little Mexican fellow do you know what I mean Aztec Lightning the themed tune to the Italia 90 World Cup maybe that's just nostalgia and the older you get and the more wise the football you get the more kind of like stinking it is when you kind of see it up close and personal and that's just how it is yeah and if you watch all the documentaries you'll see that's just how it is so there you go we've got that to look forward to the games to come but we're in December and the weather is actually December weather which is very very strange I actually last week when I was in New York it was actually 14 and 15 degrees on some days it was ridiculously warm ridiculous and then when you're going to a shop it would be even hotter people would be walking around in shorts it was like in the shops you felt like you were going to pass out and it was hot it was but why does this country have such a problem with weather why does it always number one why they were shocked why is this country always shocked or the institutions always shocked by the weather and why do we as British people have such issues with weather when we always know what's going to happen yeah I mean with the exception of things like the record temperatures this last summer where it was 40 degrees wasn't it July or August or whatever remember that day and with the exception of that which obviously is not the norm and is not commonplace although it's getting more normal year upon year but yeah you're right I mean where we find ourselves at the moment where we've got snow and ice there's always been snow and ice you know but I mean this is a country who you know trains get suspended when there's leaves on the line you know and whatnot or you know it just seems that things get suspended very easily here for no real reason my eldest daughter her school has been cancelled two days on the truck now because of snow because they're unable to clear the the area or something and I just think we've got way too used to just cancelling stuff remember cancelling used to be like last resort and anything very last resort the show must go on and all that kind of stuff and I think when I was a kid I probably had like one day at school where it was snowed off and it couldn't get in and all that kind of stuff whereas they just cancelled stuff for our left right and centre now they do it all the time I just think they're having enough for two days the school closed for two days just seems ridiculous I have to say though I was desperately you know checking my phone yesterday morning for a late doors email from the school that kind of leave for the school run at 8 o'clock right so I'm kind of like 10 2 still nothing 5 2 still nothing I literally waited still nothing at 8 o'clock because just because it was going to be a bit of a pain in the arse journey to do an hours round trip in potentially sort of snowy weather anyway I got got got me with the roads okay though when you went out on the road yeah they were fine I mean you know I mean for for those that like detail the little some of the little more residential roads were a little bit dicey you know mr. Bush if that's what you're asking but actually the main therapist were indeed safe and clear can I just say though right that I used to love the kind of communal jeopardy that we would have on a snowy day in terms of getting in but the working from home thing with covid has lessened that jeopardy now so I guess if you work from home the biggest risk you've got is maybe going over in your crocs if you put in the bin bag yeah I mean rather than getting trapped in town and can't get home do you mean there was that jeopardy before you might have to you couldn't get back from work you'd be stuck in or staying overnight well well yeah absolutely you know and I remember actually I remember actually having it having a nightmare journey right and this was what happened this was a few years ago and it snowed and I was in central London and I was there with my daughter who was only about three or four at the time and so it was a bit like we need to get home because this is unscheduled but we need to get back now because this could like cause all sorts of problems when it got on the thing suddenly the snow's coming down it doesn't feel right even the main roads are blocked with everything and that journey home that should have been about 40 minutes looks seven and a half hours oh my words just to get back roads were completely blocked for war of the world we lived up this hill there was there was car sliding back down the hill they couldn't get up there I've got like this young daughter in the back I need to get her back and so then you're trying to find another route round meanwhile interestingly it was also the same year whereby department store John Lewis right which is located or the branch of which is located not far from where I live people were trapped and they couldn't get out of there so they actually let a load of people that year sleep over in the bed department of John Lewis because they couldn't get home and it was like a proper crisis sort of almost war like situation I missed that I know it's the Dunkirk spirit date but like now like what were you worrying about if you work for a moment like you might run out of printer ink you might have that on subscription we'll continue this chapter very quickly on John Lewis I went to John Lewis on Sunday to take my dog for a Christmas photo shot shoot and it was it was in and I didn't know this existed the Jan Mulby rooms within John Lewis within Liverpool and I was like I got there and number one I've got a dog in me and I'm about to walk through a major department store in Liverpool and my missus is asking the person if they know where the Jan Mulby rooms is and I'm like am I in an episode of Phoenix Night's here what is going on I don't understand Jan Mulby's contribution to retail and department stores that would result in him having a room well they've got a good food hall I mean they I think oh yeah yeah absolutely I just I asked the woman and she was like I'm a bit I don't really want to go in the Jan Mulby room and I mean why is it here and she just went she just looked at me and just shrugged with like like she didn't have can we just google it now and see what the relationship is there's got to be a reason for it surely this is live this is live research it's a very very I mean Jan is Jan is still with us oh yeah yeah yeah it's not like a posthumous he's the scout sustainish man you'll ever meet he was a tremendous footballer but I couldn't quite understand it when you are taking your dog for a Christmas photo shoot the last thing you wanted to be is in Jan Mulby room okay okay okay right listen so I have I have an answer for you so this is from the London Evening Standard and it says thus I'm reading this out um Liverpool legend has room named after him following viral joke John Lewis Liverpool named their community space the Jan Mulby room following a viral joke from comedian Troy Hawke right that must be very recent then so blah blah blah blah yeah I know the former Liverpool legend has had an event space named after him following a viral joke which saw him being apologised to by a British supermarket Jan Mulby who played from them blah blah blah became part of a viral joke earlier this year when comedian Troy Hawke posed as a greeter from the fictional greeter's guild outside of Waitrose and said the act had been approved by Mulby from you staff said that they did not know who the ex-Liverpool midfielder which led the comedian asking for a public apology from the supermarket Waitrose staff responded by singing Lady Gaga's hit paparazzi and dancing with pictures of Mulby adorned with love hearts to apologise wow Lewis and Liverpool went even further in highlighting their love for the former player by renaming their community space the Jan Mulby room which has been decorated with photos from his football career there you go there's your answer what about that that's incredible I had no I literally had no idea I didn't set this up I promise you I had no idea and that's a very recent thing because Troy I'm not are you aware of are you aware of Troy Hawke is he now is he he's the guy who stands outside shops is he kind of like like a spiff well yeah yeah yeah I I've seen bits of front of house outside of a shop getting you a you know showing you it it is a new phenomenon but that's strange so ped the fact that you actually experienced it well not only live in real life but live in real life with a dog and you with the photos of your dog good we haven't had we're gonna get them on we've got to go back on Sunday to pick them up so that's weird you think like into these days now instant everything's instant whereas that's that's almost a throwback to getting your photos done back in the early 90s it was a proper thing it was like I got like the guy was like you know give me more give me more give me more you know show me that oh yes yes yes work it please I wasn't even doing it but you know it was proper go I don't know I don't know why he was doing it with dogs that's got nothing to do with me but there you go but um what's the plan with the picture then so you get a fur of your dog Christmas stop and what are you gonna do with it I have no idea I don't know it wasn't my choice to be there I was still very very jet lagged and I just went with the flow I'll be honest with you you know you don't ask questions are you sometimes you just go along with it but I'm thinking are these like family are these gonna go out as family Christmas cards I don't know Dave's got these like a Viti the Viti family wish you a merry Christmas with Dave on the front in the jumper that kind of thing I don't send cards by the way no one should send cards on this day in age what's the problem with cards the pair of you I just you know what I'll be I'll be honest with you and I don't mean this to sound miserable and un-Christmasy but I just can't be asked Dave I just you know it's just never been for me and I made a conscious decision years ago to just not do it you know I mean not I think before I used to do is I do a few or I do what they what I refer to as the kind of the return the return sort of aspect so what you what you do and if you click this what I used to do is that you would actually keep maybe half a dozen Christmas cards and envelopes in the glove box of your car emergency and then when you go around to someone's house around this time of year and they kind of go oh by the way I've got your Christmas card and you kind of go yours is in the car wow and then you quickly write you know dear whoever bloody bloody and wish you a merry Christmas and a happy new year and then you kind of here's yours I knew I had it in the car somewhere I meant to bring it around I'm doing the rounds at the moment that would be my policy for it therefore if you got one you would therefore do the backhand return but if you didn't then you wouldn't yeah and that's outrageous Dave that's the most morally fantastic I think is that do we have any equivalent to that like of having presents in the house you know bottle of wine or some chocolate just in case someone turns off the brain presence with them and you go oh yeah I've got your yeah and you have to you don't have a bottom drawer you know I'm going to say I didn't got chocolate and alcohol in it I was going to say you know in our house this was like a family tradition there was always the bottom drawer so this was stuff that you would get that you either didn't need or didn't want and it was things that would then be re-gifted and so you could have stuff like that for the exact same reason that pet is describing so if somebody comes over and you kind of think oh I still haven't got as a present hang on we've got let me go and have a look for yours because it's already quickly going there quickly wrap something up a bottle of whatever or some turkey delight that you don't like or whatever it is and then you give it to them there you go there's your Christmas present and then everybody's good and it's all back to evens so the worst thing about this right is that the three of us are sat here in our toffee TV Christmas jumpers and then you two are just absolutely destroying the Christmas spirit with your bra this is the toffee TV ho-ho show this is like proper Christmas doesn't get more Christmasy than this I'm taking me jump off it's ridiculous I think this is the spirit of Christmas being prepared and that's it just having stuff ready just in case someone it's no one's equivalent of it's like on Facebook I just don't like wish anyone happy birthday anymore it's the same thing it's like if if I'm going to wish you happy birthday I'll send you a message because you're my mate I'm not going to wish some people and it's the same with Christmas cards I just can't be arsed sending Christmas cards if I really like it I'll see you over Christmas and I'll probably get you something properly but Christmas cards to me are just they are very much a analog situation in a digital world do you know what I mean you two are going to both be visited by the ghost of Christmas future within the next two to three weeks that's what's going to happen so it's set on the end of your bed is a Christmas with Bush is that a festive place to be do you like to think of yourself as very much a Christmasy celebratory character I think there's a midpoint between being you lot the Grinch and then being like Gary Christmas who's on local news because he loves Christmas so much 24 hours a day 365 days a year I think I'm the midpoint, I like a bit of Christmas festive fun and all that kind of stuff but I certainly you two need to have a look at yourselves after this podcast is over I've just been to the most Christmasy place on earth as far as I'm concerned it was just Christmas wall to wall for an entire week but I just don't understand why people buy each other like me, Mrs will go I'll get you a card why we live in the same house I wish you Merry Christmas I don't need a fucking card off you that costs £4 from Clintons or some other rip-off merchants I'm going to run a David almost PPI style if you've been given a gift by David over the past 5 to 10 years you may be in line for compensation get people to get in touch where there's banners of claim there could be granted I've never spent Christmas with Ped and realistically it probably will never happen but it doesn't surprise me that he's possibly even less Christmasy than me because that's the character that we know of I'm very Christmasy I just don't see the pointing cards honestly to me it's just nonsense to me that I will buy good presents for people I stocked up for me and my niece and nephew in America and I get cracking Christmas presents my mum and dad always get something brilliant I sent them to see Frankie Valley last year for Christmas they always get good stuff off my book Christmas cards just feel so old fashioned to the point of like what's the point now we live in a digital world like you just said before you can go to work at home now without any issues you can do it all at home I just don't see the point in sending a Christmas card to someone anymore when we're all attached to Daniel via whatever social network or via our phones or whatever to me that just seems such an old fashioned thing one good Christmas tradition and we haven't done it for a little while I've not been up for a game around December time at Goodison for a little while but what is the wine they sell this fantastic fortified just absolute loopy juice wine at Goodison I've had that a few times you get a little bottle a little tiny bottle of fortified wine well the only fortified and I've never experienced at Goodison the only fortified wine that I know of this involved with football is Bookfast which actually is made in your part of the world Andy Bush but then strangely is exported almost entirely to Glasgow my friend from Folkirk is obsessed with it or Scotland generally and Scottish football in many ways again huge sweeping statement is sort of fuelled on Bookfast which is the fact that they should take something which is a fortified wine made by Benedictine monks in a Abbey in Bookfastly in Devon and why or how it should have ever ended up on the streets of Glasgow and Edinburgh but it has you know and it's something of a thing there but I've never experienced Bookfast or fortified wine someone back me up on this right if you've been at Goodison you decide you don't you don't want the beer that makes you need to go for a pestle try the wine it tastes like if you go to Holy Communion and you have Blood of Christ you know that wine out of the goblet it tastes like that wine Jesus is blood Jesus is blood we're sending Christmas cards and we're drinking wine out of a goblet I mean these are things that just to me just sound like they belong in another century do you guys do mass, do you do carol services or mass? I'm not religious one hang on I'm already getting and I don't want to I don't want to get onto the thorny subject of religion because I think it's probably best avoided but I'm getting from our conversation Andy Bush that you may indeed be a Roman Catholic is that correct? funnily enough Dave yes I am a Roman Catholic I managed to I managed to deduce that from the conversation that we've had but mass carols and church original sin I've never done the midnight mass thing no ever but I think that's more of a Catholic thing which is great I did go to St. Patrick's Cathedral while I was in New York though I've been to some of the major Catholic institutions around the world I'll have you know that and do you know what I find them really interesting not to the damn I've been to the way Ted talks he reminds me of sadly past on and he's at the gates of heaven trying to just convince him yeah I've been to the Vatican I've got photos and everything scrolling through his phone I'll be short down below my knees for it and yes they're very nice places to be around Christmas but I don't necessarily buy into it all but it is nice and I can understand why people go to mass and I can understand that like in Christmas cards at least there's something behind that and it's free well free to a point but yeah it's it's not that I'll be honest with you I actually did buy some charity Christmas cards last night charity ones are acceptable charity ones in fact in the glove department and I thought they were tremendous value they were £2 for five luxury charity Christmas cards which I thought wasn't bad and actually they were just in a nice a nice thin box that would fit nicely into my glove department just in the event of any kind of backhanded need we always buy them for like the guide dogs and stuff like that and we might even send them because that's the good thing of it the good thing about Christmas cards what I will say is they are timeless if you don't send them this year you can send them next year they're not going out of date well you say that they are ordinarily timeless except for the last couple of years where there was comedy Covid ones do you remember and then there was ones with for example Rudolph on a zoom call or something like that because it was all kind of topical with lockdown those things I think are very dated already but ordinarily are you right the central pillars of Christmas you know stay the same given Christmas and we're heading towards Christmas what is the 1878 FM podcast opening hours as we head towards the Christmas period then are we podcasting next week we're going to podcast right the way through this bad boys why not that way we can bring live seasonal cheer from our own homesteads to the people and I think that's what people would want that's a one thing that I did which I really did like about actually being in New York was that you know it's the whole happy holidays thing isn't it with America but what I didn't sort of realise never been over in America around this time do you know the way for us it is all build up to Christmas Eve Christmas Day, Boxing Day and now it's basically New Year's Eve the whole of that weeks I don't know what it was like when you were kids but I always remember that week felt like when I was a kid like everybody was off going round to all your uncles and aunties but whereas now it just feels like once you get to Boxing Day it's back to the ground to New Year's Eve but I felt like in America when they say happy holidays they mean now, they mean right now the whole of December is like a celebration to them from Thanksgiving all the way through to I imagine New Year's Eve and I really enjoyed that and don't get me wrong there's no extra there's nothing extra to do it just didn't feel much they felt like well today's Christmas tomorrow's, I know they say happy holidays but it felt like the whole thing was part of it and it wasn't and as I say there's nothing extra it's more just an attitude of like this whole thing from now to then is all the holidays and just enjoy the whole thing and we don't have to wait till Christmas Eve till we can actually sit down and go now we can enjoy Christmas because I feel like it's just one big rush in this country for two days where it's felt a lot more relaxed like we can celebrate all the way through December I think they work harder than us though in America they're working hours and are like brutal compared to what we get away with it's because they have no way of making rights that's why yeah it is though it is so I think that's why they kind of ring fence that bit of time and so like right we're sitting down we're gonna relax and enjoy but they are also just better at stuff like that than us so aren't they they're less cynical aren't they than we are they are better at happiness generally you know and they do things like Christmas and Halloween but then also it's just the way that the whole service industry in America is just better than it is here you go into a restaurant the service is good you go into a bar the service is good you go into a shop and they look after you you know whereas here generally there's a sort of attitude of can't be asked you know when you ask for something like I've been in the supermarket in America and I've asked for something specific and they kind of go sure sir let me help you and this guy like literally walks he did the thing and I go oh they were here somewhere just hang on a second let me find it and this guy was so pleased when he actually you know found these ziplock freezer bags that I was trying to bring back from my mum right whatever in 2002 anyway I got the ones that she wanted job done successful mission but here you know when you ask somebody and you kind of say have you got whatever and they kind of go I've got it and the thing is the reason they say that we haven't got it is because they can't be asked to actually go and have a look and they can't be asked to go and show you which is why now that I'm becoming old and even more jaded and cynical is that I will then eventually go and find said item which I was asking for help and then I will go and find that operative and actually point out the fact that they do sell it you know and actually if they looked harder they would know where it was I'll 13 halfway along just on the right hand side you wonder all right my dad you are literally my dad Dave I'm turning into my own dad you need a bit of a legend in your life do Roman Catholic, didn't Baz it be up for a split off Roman Catholic podcast yeah 100% he loves it, oh he loves it give it a Latin name or something yeah 100% stations of the cross with Bush and Baz just before we finish I'll give you a good example I'll give you a good example of someone helping out while I was in New York I went to the Tamil pub which is the evident pub in New York where people go and they've got a wall of all gear it was quite in the night time and it was full of people on a Christmas night out and I went over to the wall and it was pitch black and you say wall of gear you're talking about all the evidence nothing else, all the evidence stuff on the wall and it was quite dark I was trying to get pictures and it was fine I've got a flash but hey you've got more than more cunts haven't you hey Liz Liz, don't worry I've got a flash I've got a flash and the bouncer came from outside running and got his little torch out I got you and started shining it on the wall and I thought that would never happen and the guy would probably more likely grab me by the scruff of the neck and throw me out for standing in the passageway so fair play to him so there you go right there we have it I'm sure we'll be back next week to be talking full Christmas next week full Christmas full blown Christmas tell you what Andy Bush if you think it's been Christmasy today right you've not seen anything yet next week we were going fully baubles deep next week oh that's good thanks Dave we'll have all our virtual cards ready to send and our emergency cards you guys have filled me with Christmas cheer you really have the pair of you oh ho ho thanks to Andy we'll be back next week see yous then