 Hi everybody, welcome. Thank you all so much for coming to tonight's symposium on booty candy by Robert O'Hara. My name's Adam Greenfield. I'm the director of new play development here at Playwrights Horizons. And I'm very thrilled to be welcoming you. We, Playwrights Horizons is a writers theater. We're dedicated to the development and support and advocacy of living American playwrights. And so being a writers theater is really important for us to place the writer at the center of the process, which is why we created this discussion series, which is curated by the playwright, who better than the playwright to open up the conversation about his or her work. So thank you all for being part of it. And we are live streaming this from that camera over there. So if we all wave at the camera, everyone will, at home, we'll wave back. And then also it'll be on our website. So if you feel like watching it again and again and again, you can do that from the comfort of your home. So I'm gonna introduce the panelists and then I'm gonna turn it over to the panelists to have the conversation without me. So first, on the farthest to your right is Yoruba Richen. Yoruba is a documentary filmmaker who has directed and produced films in the US and abroad. Her latest film, The New Black, tells the story of how the African American community is grappling with gay rights in light of recent gay marriage, the recent gay marriage movement in the fight over civil rights. You can catch screenings of the play. I think there's two of them this week, in fact. I'm sorry, of the film, sorry. One on Wednesday at CUNY and one on Thursday at the Maisel Center in Harlem. And there's information on that on the New Black's website. To Yoruba's right is Billy Porter. Billy Porter is a Tony and Grammy award-winning singer, composer, actor, playwright, professor, and director. Slash, slash, slash. Slash, slash, slash. Billy won a Tony Award and a Drama Desk Award for his performance as Lola in Kinky Boots. And this fall, primary stage is will premiere his play, Wala Yetli. To Billy's right is Carmen Neely. Carmen currently works for the New York City Department of Education. In 1999, she founded Crucial Arts Productions, which is a nonprofit that presents critical issues to the community via documentary films. And Carmen is the president and co-founder of Harlem Pride, which she co-founded in 2010. And to Carmen's right is Robert O'Hara, who is a playwright and director of many, many, many, many plays. Of course, including Booty Candy, which is running right now on this very stage, and which is the reason that we're all here. So I'd like to turn this over to Robert to start the conversation. And in about 45 minutes or so, I'll sneakily interrupt them and open the conversation up to questions from you guys. So thanks so much and take it away. So, you know, when Adam told me about this panel that I got to put together, I was like, you know, I don't like to talk in front of audiences. And he said, but you can have whoever you want. And I said, okay, so we're just gonna talk and it might go wherever it's gonna go, right? I'm very good friends with Billy. I haven't seen him in a while, so we might get off topic a bit. But it's wonderful to meet you, but in common. So the first thing we were talking actually earlier about the fact that Billy has a play that's opening up the street and I have this place opening up the street and that dealing with homosexuality and dealing with African-American issues and what have you. And just how interesting that is, that is happening. And so the first question I had for Billy and also for anyone who wants to speak, you know, there's been this sort of, there's all this excitement around the new Black Phantom, you know, the new Black Cinderella. We had a Black street cornering desire. And so. First Black lead drag queen in a commercial musical on Broadway. Yes. That ain't never happened before either. Right. And Tony award-winning. So I'm wondering, because I have mixed feelings about it and that there is a lot of celebration of that and there's no discussion of why weren't we there before and why did it take 20 years for someone to put a black mask, a mask on a black man and call him a Phantom of the Opera. And I just wanted to sort that out with like, because I think it's wonderful that it's happening, but it's also important that we realize that it has not happened for so long, you know. Anybody want to respond to that? I agree, you know, I think that it's been, you know, I always try to take the positive side to every story and the positive side to every journey because it's important to remain active in that way, but simultaneously I do feel like the conversation about why it hasn't happened before this needs to actually be broached. And it's interesting to me because I don't know, I don't have the answer to that. You know, I do know that I am a product of living inside of the rejection of that, you know, and being told flat out that I can't do something because that's not the story we're telling. And you look at the piece and you look at the material and you go, okay, there's nothing in this story that says that the person, the actor playing this character needs to be white other than the fact that it's always been done that way in the past. That's the only reason, you know. So there is, I am thrilled that we get to be a part of cracking that glass ceiling that has existed for a really long time and still does, but we're cracking it and that's the positive side of it. You know what I mean? Right, right now, yeah, go ahead. We're cracking it, but there's another level that hasn't been cracked. Absolutely. And you know, and I speak especially from the film world, both documentary and fiction film. We have an epidemic of what I think is an epidemic of our stories not being told by us. Now, of course, you sitting here are living proof that we can do it and be successful, but there are over and over and over again, I talk about this with my colleagues, these stories, they'll cast us, but we have no directorial control and they're not writing it. No creative control. You know, you look at the James Brown movie, not one black creative person on that movie. The James Brown documentary, you know. So there is a level that they'll start, they'll cast us, they'll put us in, you know, but we have to take directorial and writing control, which of course you guys are testament to it happening. I think it may happen more easily in theater than in film and in television. Even in stories, shows like Orange is the New Black, for example, that I watch, I enjoy, I think it's got amazing multiracial stories and characters, but I don't know if there are any people of color writing that or directing that. And I think that makes a difference in terms of the stories that we see. I think another issue too, coming from an educator's perspective, I teach middle school and a lot of the students think this is how things have always been. So what gets lost for them is the history and the struggle that came before all of this. So I remember we were talking about A Raisin in the Sun and one of the kids said, so you mean Kanye West and Kim Kardashian couldn't be in a relationship? And I was like. Actually no, that's a great example, but can we focus on the theme here? But that was the question. So their minds are blown. So while they're consumers of this media, whether it be film or plays, television, et cetera, they also need to understand the history of the struggle to get where we are and not assume that it's just always been this way. So I always think that's important for us to come back to making sure that generations now and to come understand the history of it so they can really fully appreciate what they see. Really, do you wanna follow up? Yeah, I just, you know, in terms of us writing our own stories, I'm gonna be 45 in a week. And I know that I'm a generation, I'm from a generation of people that was taught early on to be a brilliant interpreter of other people's material. That's what I was taught. That's just what you were taught. That was the pre, you know, internet generation. It's not like that now. You know, these kids, which I love, but the kids today are taught early on, the voice comes from you. The voice should come from you. There are a lot more people who have that in their ear. And I'm appreciative of that. You know, it wasn't until I got old enough and realized that my friends who were writers, who were white, who were successful didn't actually have the knowledge or the access to actually truly write my story. And it wasn't until I stopped expecting them to do it and did it myself that then the story actually began to get told. So, you know, I just wanted to say that in terms of my experience, it took me gathering and gaining that understanding. You know, the understanding of, oh, wait a minute, wait, maybe I should, you know what I mean? Absolutely. And it's a risk and it's scary, you know, especially for somebody who's a performer. I was a performer only for many, many, many, many, many years. And I stepped out on faith to be a writer because I couldn't get no work. That's what it was. You know, it's like, you know, oh, you wrote a play, oh, you, listen, if I was successful, like I thought I was entitled to be because I was talented and fierce and all of those things. You know, if I had sat on that, if it had turned out the way that I had, that I thought it was supposed to be, I don't know that I would be in this place right now. The best thing that happened to me was that they said, that's not the story we're telling. Right. Because it forced me to actually go, oh, you're really not gonna hire me. Right. You're really not going to hire me no matter how good I am, no matter how hard I try, you're really not going to do it. Okay. Right. Now what do you do? Right. Cause you'll either figure it out and create something for yourself or you'll be living on the streets. Right. So I want to also, there's something that's connected to this for me is that, you know, the image of homosexuality and when, you know, once again, there was a lot of hoopla over the sort of, you know, gays being on television and gays being, you know, allowed to be out and be in different parts of media, people coming out. And so this is twofold. And one is that I think that when most people hear gay, they think of a white guy. You know what I mean? And so people go, oh, but you're, you know, really gray, so you're, it's like the examples still don't look like me. Right. You know what I mean? It's still just more white people on stage. Right. And more white people on film. Right. You know what I mean? But I'm wondering what is the connection or do you find that there's a connection in common? This is particularly for you. In terms of the homophobia, the blatant homophobia and the blatant, you know, violence that has happened, I mean, just in the village, you know, Randy getting knocked in his face, you know, sort of like the blatant acts of violence. Is that connected to the blatant acts of coming out and being visible? I think so, absolutely. I mean, for instance, just with Harlem Pride, the organization, we are so successful because we're feeling a void in the community that even we ourselves didn't recognize how deep it ran until we actually did the first event and had over 3,000 people. Now, what event just turns out to be a black party and gets over 3,000 people the first year? So therein lies the crux of really what's going on. In terms of the violence, definitely, I think some people are, how dare they have the audacity to stand up and be themselves. Right. And therein lies anger. I mean, even on a personal level, my father sometimes still gets angry because he looks and they're like, oh my God, I can't believe she's a lesbian. Well, gee, Dad, sorry to disappoint you. But that's what the truth is. And so now when we stand up in our truth and we're strong and confident in it, some people just feel like it's in their face. It's not necessarily in their face, but that's how they feel and their reaction is very violent. So I think that's what perpetuates itself and we see more of it because we are starting to see beyond the willing grace, at least us telling some of our stories and putting them out there and being very successful clearly at telling our stories. So the more I feel the more there's the for us, buy us, about us theme that goes on, the more we are seeing somewhat as being militant, maybe uppity, that whole sort of thing that harkens back to the civil rights movement, how dare you think you should sit at the same table. And so because we have that, I feel the violence does perpetuate itself and does continue. Now, what do we do about that? I think we continue to stand up and be proud because at the end of the day, what else can we do? Remember, you've had a quote that you said something that, you know, that gay rights is the last, what was it, the fashion of civil rights? Well. There was something interesting that I had. I'm not sure exactly which quote you're talking about, but whichever one you would like to pick out. What I explore in my film is how these activists really that I show that I show working for this marriage equality bill in Maryland and also dealing with it in their personal lives see civil rights as the gay or LGBT rights as the next, the natural extension of the freedom movement, of the civil rights freedom movement. And so people will often ask me, well, do you think it's the same thing? I worked on this film for three, four years. And so much changed during that time, which is amazing to capture. And people often ask me, do you think it's the same thing? And it's like, you know what? Actually, that's not the question that I think is interesting. I think what's interesting is how freedom movements are on top of each other and learn from each other and inspired by each other. And I think that's what's happening. And I think that's what, especially these young folks that I profiled, and not just young folks, but these activists, these people working for marriage equality, for gender, to end gender discrimination, are, see it like that. And whether we agree kind of even me being older at 42, it kind of doesn't matter because that's where the momentum is. So that's what I see. But can I say also one other thing? Because I just have to say, Robert, part of the reason why I was so happy to be on this panel is that I saw your play in Selection in San Francisco in 1990. You don't have to go into that. And it was a time when I was sort of figuring out what I wanted to do with my life in terms of artistically, in terms of social issue, and seeing that play. And I talked about it for years. How inspiring and funny and biting and clever it was. And this idea or this portrayal of blackness and of homosexuality and iconoclastic was so really set me I think on that path of, oh, you can actually do this kind of work and break barriers and portray our people in the full complexity that we are. I think that that's also what, and you're like a pioneer for that for me. I think of George C. Wolfe with the Colored Museum which I saw as a kid. Also a pioneer. So it's a trajectory, it's history, it's understanding. You know, and each of us generationally break those barriers. And I think that your work is part of that, so. Well, you know, that's interesting because it goes back to the sort of, when you find someone or you find a piece of work, that sort of you can identify that, through all of the whatever is in front of you constantly. For instance, I remember Billy on Star Search. And just knowing that I never think that I would be sitting at a table in New York City on 42nd Street with this person. But finding that even though I didn't know what it was, I knew there was something special there. And I can identify with being special. Even if that meant different in other people's eyes. Did you want to say something about that? No, we can move on to this question. No, she's not at all. So the other thing is that, you know, Booty Candy being at this theater at Playwrights Horizons, at Playwrights Horizons, but being on 42nd Street. And of course, I remember 42nd Street. And you know, it wasn't cute. And people say to me, oh my God, I'm so excited that and you're so brave to do Booty Candy. I'm like, there's these sex clubs up and down the street and porno things and all this stuff. But just being myself means that somehow I'm being brave or something, which is sort of amazing to me. And I can imagine that in each way, we are sort of leaders in a way. And so how, when I'm still looking to, you know, to find myself in places, how does it feel to be considered, as you say, a pioneer or to be a leader, you know? I'm sure there are people, when was the last time someone like you won the Tony Award for a best actor? You know what I mean? And what that must mean to, exactly. There's been three of us in the history. In the history. In the history of the whole thing, maybe four, in the history of all of the Tony Awards for all the years that it's existed. For singing and dancing. Three black people. Uh-huh. Singing and dancing. Three black people. And I'm talking about best actor. Right. You know, I'm talking about best actor in a musical. There have been a few more best supporting. Yes. There have been lots of ladies. Yes. You know, more ladies because it's a more, it's a more female centric. Centric art form. You know, leading ladies in musicals. But yeah. And no playwrights. No playwrights. I don't remember a playwright. It's been, it's August Wilson. Yes. August Wilson for fences. One. Yeah. One twice. I think he won twice. And it's certainly been nominated. Susan has been nominated. Susan has been nominated. Nominated. It's really interesting to me because I don't, I can't live in the world of I'm a pioneer. I live in the world of I almost was destroyed by the pressure to live the lie. To live the lie of from the moment that we can comprehend anything. The message is you're not okay and fix it. Those might not be the explicit words, but that is the action. You're not okay and fix it. So you learn to put another layer of something over your true self to make everybody around you feel comfortable. Right. Nevermind yourself. Everybody around you feels comfortable. So you're okay. So you learn how to do that. But then. But you have this bursting talent. And you're an artist. Right. And you have to express yourself. And the only thing about expressing yourself, the only thing that matters is the truth. So you can't get to the actual true expression of yourself and taking on the veil of something else because the base that you have is a lie. So now your work isn't any good because you're coming from a place of lying because that's the only thing that people can accept from you. So it's not until the breakdown of that happens. And you can boldly say, well, if the truth of who I am means I never stepped foot on a stage again. So be it. If it means I never work again doing the thing I love, I choose my sanity over my fame and we'll let the chips fall where they may. And I think that's what each one of us up here has done in some way. You know, so I didn't, you know, I walked away from the business because it was either I was gonna lose my mind or not. Like it literally came down to that. You know, so the journey of being inside of that truth and speaking a story and developing stories that you know in your heart, nobody wants to hear. But they do, but in your heart and what you were taught, we were told nobody wants to hear that. The whole mainstream sort of thing. If you do that, you will not be successful. Right. How can you be? How can you write a play about homosexuals and black vocals? Black homosexuals. And then living with that fear, because that whole fear is what just holds you back when you let it go. Essentially the world opens up because you don't, what's out there doesn't matter as much as what's in here does. You know, I came to the, I can't, I'm sorry, baby. I came to the, at the crossroads of my life, a question, what do you want? And Stu says it best in Passing Strange. He says something about, and I'm not gonna say it right, but I built my total existence based on the decisions of a 16 year old or something like that he says in the play. And you have to grow up at a certain point. And so I'm sorry, baby, I came to the, when I think about it, it's like all of my dreams were based on decisions that I created as an 11 year old. So at 11 I knew, oh, if I'm a superstar, then I'll be on the cover of magazines, I'll have lots of money, I'll be really successful, and the people who I love will no longer reject me. That's why I wanted to be a star, not for any other reason. You know, so then the question hadn't, you know, so then the question had to morph into, wait, what is, what is it? You know, what do I really, really, really want? And I got specific and I was watching Oprah one day as I want to do it. And somebody said service, how can you be of service? How can you be of service? Now that's myself that question. How can I be of service? How can I be of service to something other than my own ego at bank account? In a business that's inherently narcissistic, how do you do that? And that was the truth. I gotta tell the truth, no matter whether anybody wants to hear it or not, you know. I was just gonna say the thing of, they don't wanna hear our stories, you know. We've been told that, you know, we're not gonna get an audience, there's no funding for it, there's no one's interested and I think all of our experience belie that. I mean that's, we've been told lies, essentially. And even if you look at what was the biggest box office this week, no good deed, beat out dolphins too or something. And it's like there is a hunger to see, and that's just having, I haven't seen the film, I think it's just having black actors like Idris and Teraj in it. People, they have an audience, we have audiences. And what I found in showing the film and I think Ava Devarnay, the great female director, producer, distributor, she said there are, it's some panel that I saw her say, there are riches in niches, you know. There are, we can create stories that people, that our people wanna see and that ultimately are universal because we're artists and so we are telling universal stories and it's our job to make it universal. But they'll still say there's no audience for that and that's a lie. Right, it is a lie. Yeah, people are thirsty. I mean with Harlan Frye, initially myself and a co-founder who owns an art gallery, he always had an exhibit to celebrate pride and we were trying to figure out how to promote it. And this particular exhibit was erotica. So instead of the typical wine and cheese reception, I said, you know, we should have a party, throw some house music in there and have the kids come out. So we were about this and we do a little logo. I put the logo on the shirt. I'm going to different restaurants and my regular hangouts and people are starting to say, hey, what's this Harlan Frye? They see the colors, rainbow colors. You know, so I tell them what it's about. It's about, you know, some of Harlan's same gender loving LGBT people coming together to have this event. Next thing we know, the event actually happens. Initially it's a block party. Just one block, 3,000 people. We have politicians, we have the newspaper. That's when it got, we had the newspaper. That's when it got real. Because then we realized we had a niche, right? People were thirsty and we ourselves were thirsty but we just didn't even recognize the need as well. You know, the thirst. You could be thirst for something you want. But there was just a vindicated need there and that's how we've grown so much in five years and then we had shade and you know, you're going to get shade. People, oh, you're trying to compete with downtown. No, really, we didn't even think about downtown when we put it together. It was really not a thought. Well, why is it the same weekend? Well, the block association had that weekend and already had the permit. So that's why it was that weekend and we just kept it. It happened, stands, but people want to throw their own little, you know, wrenches into the mix to try to make it something that is not. But that's what happens. People are hungry. They're hungry for their stories and they're hungry to be validated and to see themselves outside of themselves, to know that there's community there. And that's again, what art does. It builds community. It helps you see yourself outside of yourself. You know, so they want me to allow you all, before we allow the audience, to ask me any questions that you all have seen the play. And so I'm particularly interested. And if, you know, I don't know if I was watching it the other night and I was saying to myself, I don't think I've seen two black lesbians on the stage, black lesbians on the stage before. And I'm sure I must have in some way, but I don't know what play requires two people to play lesbians. And even though it is a scene that is completely and totally ridiculous. Most of the play is ridiculous. But the fact that they exist in space, in front of someone was sort of interesting. So I'll just start out as to open up if there's anything you guys want to comment on or ask me about before we go to the audience. Yes, please. I'll start. So kind of two, let's see if I can read two into one. I first, as I said, I first saw your play in the insurrection in the 90s and you were at Columbia, you went to Columbia, right? So I remember reading about you and curious that you chose directing. You were in the directing school, right? So I'm curious just a little bit about your trajectory and how you came there. And then also you just said, I mean, the play was hilarious, it was outrageous. I think in the poll quote, we gotta say it's to offend, amuse, it was like all these things. I was like, oh yeah, that's actually right. It's actually what it did. But you said it was ridiculous. And how did you choose that these vignettes, these, why this format, this way of telling a story? Well, as Billy and I were talking that, I was incredibly influenced, especially for this play on George Wolf's Color Museum. And Billy, you're gonna direct that The Huntington. Yes, I'm directing that The Huntington in the winter. Yeah, and it was just a profound, it was the first time I saw a black gay person on stage and he was not having it, right? And he was- We're not a victim. No, and it was snapping and all that stuff. And I actually, a little known fact, played the character in college horribly. But that was profound. So I think that, Buddha kind of began with a sort of series that I had been writing short, as a writer, you sort of write a little scene or you write a little play and you put it away or whatever. Someone goes, can you write me a little scene or you're commissioned to write a 10 minute play? So some of those happened that way. And so one night I put an evening of theater of short plays of mine. And they had all been, some of them had been done by other people. Like I wrote a monologue for an actor who said I need an additional monologue. And so about five years ago, one of the artistic directors of the Willie Mammoth in DC said, I've read those, that collection of plays. And I think that there's some characters in it that might be interesting to pull forward. And I was like, well, they were all written at various times for various reasons. And I don't think that they worked that way. He said, well, why don't you take a look? And so I took a look and I sort of threw half of them out. And there were a handful of them that I sort of kept and I sort of, and they didn't have really names to them. There was not like, for instance, the drinks and desire scene with the two men. There was no Sutter and Roy. There was just two guys in a bar, right? And so then I began to give them biographies and connect them to each other and then write whole other pieces of the play and rewrite them, whatever. And so that's what came of it. And only because I knew that you could do that from Color Museum, because my trainee would have told me that you can't, my trainee would have told me that you can't do that. That that, in fact, was not a play, it was a bunch of vignettes. And that you couldn't weave a non-linear story that it was more of experience and not a narrative. And so I tried at the end of the first act to rip any sort of semblance of a narrative away from the audience by examining the pieces as individuals and saying, you know, as I said before in a talk back set, I didn't want audiences to leave the intermission and go, well, I wonder if, you know, they're gonna fall in love or I wonder if she's gonna have that baby or whatever. I want them to go, I have no idea what's gonna happen next, you know, and sit inside that, you know what I mean? So that's where that came from. As for, you know, my Columbia days, I grew up in Cincinnati, Ohio and my grandmother had 12 kids, kids. And my mother was the oldest daughter. And so I was one of the older grandsons. And so most of my aunts and uncles were teenagers as I was growing up and they were out of control, right? And I was three and teenagers say horrible things to kids, right? And they don't think of them as your uncle. They think of it as, you know, the little kid, right? And I was a feminine and I was saying and dance and wrote stories and whatever. So you know, I learned very early to sort of toughen my scan and sort of use my power of my language. And also I was being highly educated because I loved school. And so I began to sort of like have this sort of relationship to language and I went to college and I never thought I would be an artist. I thought that was a hobby. I just wrote those plays or whatever as a kid. And then I realized that you could be an artist and I applied to Columbia and, you know, I came to Columbia, the stories I came to Columbia, they said, for my interview and they said, you know what, you're one of our top candidates for the directing program. I applied for the directing and the writing program and you're one of the top candidates for the director program. I was like, great. And so then I went back to college and I was like, you know what, I'm not gonna take this class anymore. I'm going to Columbia and I'll take Spanish at Columbia. And the next week I got rejection letter. And I remember one of my counselors in high school saying that if you get a rejection letter, you should call them up and tell them that you're really interested in it. Maybe you can put on a wait list. So I called Columbia up and they were like, hi, Robert. And I was like, hi. And I was like, you know, when I was there, you said I was one of your top candidates and now I got a rejection letter. What's up with that? And they're like, hold on for a second. And the dean got on and said, we sent you the wrong letter. Oh! And that you really got into the directing program. We haven't decided on the playwriting program yet but you've got it. But you definitely got in. You'll be hearing. To this day, all I have is a rejection letter from Columbia. And so I showed up. And I was like, oh, I'm here. And they have been sending me financial aid stuff. So that's how that became, yeah. Did you have a question? Wow. And so Billy, I want you to talk about your, because you said something about how we wrote the same play in a way and that my play is a satire. Yeah, we met, what? We don't have to go into it. A long time ago. We met a long time ago. And I've always, always, always been a fan of Robert's work and Robert was one of the people that actually, you know, I looked to as an example of someone who could develop and create their own work when I was trying to find the courage to do that myself. So with that said, I came to see that I, you know, I wrote While I Yet Live, we're in rehearsals. It's about my life, you know, black, gay, Christian, living in America, trying to make it work. You know, themes of abuse, themes of rejection, themes of forgiveness, things of, you know, just the power of all of those themes. And all of that is in this play. That's really interesting. Yeah, and so I didn't, you know, I didn't know. I mean, I read a little bit of it, but then I had to go into rewrites for my own play and I knew this was being produced. So I was like, I'll see it. But it started and I just thought, oh my God, it's literally, thematically, exactly the same. How we approach it is real, real different. You know, my approach is more kitchen thing drama-ish. And you've gone full sat-time, which is so remarkable that the same type of themes can exist in all of these different ways. And that was what was so exciting about it, was that it felt like the marginalization of the community and how there's only one version of us. You know, it's like sometimes there's a breakthrough, but then it's one thing, you know? And so the experience is one thing. And if you don't fit into that one thing that the black people are doing, then once again, you're out of work, you know? So it was so interesting to come and see those themes expressed in a completely different way. You know, and I also got, you know, I watched it and I was like, it's not all, you know, pom-poms and polypops, it really isn't. You know, it gets really, really, really dark for those of us who know what that darkness is and who are willing to go into that darkness with you. You know what I mean? And you do it with such sleight of hand and you do it with such grace and you make everybody feel comfortable about it, which is one of our jobs, you know? Because if people wanna run out of the theater, then we're not doing our job. So you do have to take care of your audience simultaneously at the same time challenging that. And you do that with such, you know, it's like I don't even know that people are, you know, it's such finesse, you know? But it was powerful. It was such a wonderfully, it hit me. Oh, sorry. It hit me in such a great, wonderful way and it's exciting and it made me, you know, breathe again because I haven't really been breathing because I know my play starts performances next Wednesday so I haven't been breathing much. It was great. I slept really good last night, so thank you. Carmen, do you have anything to add? All right. Right. And my question is this. Well, first I have to say the preacher scene, because I'm a PK, loved it. I think every LGBT same-gender loving preacher's kid should see that and feel okay. Love that scene. Well, let's go into the dark. Now the scene that made me choke to use that. I like that though. Before seeing the play by girlfriend and I were talking about just the types of plays we like versus musicals. And I was like, I like those ones that kind of grip you. I got gripped. And so the scene that I'm referring to is the one where the guy is drunk and they go back to the hotel and all that. I just wonder what was the underlying inspiration, shall I say, for how did that scene develop? Because that scene, after seeing the intermission with the panel and loving that, because I think a lot of times when we're on these different panels, oh, you're supposed to be the voice for the black community and I'm just one person. And the community is so diverse. So after seeing that, I think that set the tone, at least for me, going into the second act. And so then when we got to that space, I was just like, it made me uncomfortable. But again, I wasn't running out of the theater and I felt that that discomfort was, there was a point to it. And there is through the debate after seeing the, not so much debate, but conversation after seeing the play between myself and my girlfriend, like just what did that mean? So I like to ask you, what did that mean? Well, you know, all of the scenes come from some sort of real fact of my life and some sort of experience. So there was an experience where I was in a bar with a very good friend of mine and there was a straight guy that came by that came up and just, you know, as straight men think that they can do and just interrupt your space. And I was like, wait a second, are you different? Are you gay and whatever? And I was like, you know what? I was tipsy and my friend was tipsy and so we began to play with this person. And then we realized that this person was actually dealing with a lot more than just being drunk. And so that's where I took off as a writer and it's like, what if we had gone the extra level and this had gone, whatever. And so, you know, in terms of booty candy, it is about how one deals with rejection. And I was thinking, I have friends that, you know, will burn down a person's house, you know what I mean? Call up every person they ever been with. And just so that, I think that Sutter was sort of trying to deal with his own rejection. And I think also the title of the scene is called The Last Gameplay which refers of course to George Wolf's, the last mom on the couch play. And it was, you know, there was always happy homosexuals, you know, and we're always either, you know, on the verge of realizing something and then either going to kill ourselves or going to sing a song or going to sit in a corner and have the lights go out on us as we ponder, right? And so this was like, what if, you know, there was a homosexual who could not deal with the rejection that he had gotten earlier from the same actor playing the characters in his life. So that was an example. And so therefore the actors began to turn on him and the character, his characters began to turn on him at the end of the scene and say, this is too much. And so it really was an example of if I were to put a rewrite on the stage, you know? And so that's why I say that if he had said, you know, I want this to happen and this to happen, three of the characters would instantly disappear from the stage. So it was an example of going too far and then having to turn around and look at what you had done. So that's what that was, actually. Love it, love it. Where are we, Adam? Um, I think we're at the end of the question. So we are, when Claire's rise is a non-profit and among many other things, what that means is that we have exactly one microphone. And it's that we all have to share. So we have about 20 minutes and we'll, if you raise your hands, we'll pass the microphone to you. You can ask the question in the microphone, that'd be great. Okay, cause we're live streaming. I'm gonna take the microphone from you after that. So anybody have any questions for Robert or for the panel? Are you guys not disappointed that this is a white audience or a white middle-aged audience? I'm done being disappointed. Me too. That does not help me sleep at all. That doesn't, that doesn't... It's not always. It doesn't make any, it doesn't do anything. So no, I'm not. And not anxious to try and attract more black people or to be a theater. Of course, always anxious and always doing that. Always setting out to do that. You know, but it's something that is ever evolving and it takes patience and it takes time. That's where I am. I don't know about the president. And you know, I think that the black people, I know, I know several of the people of color in the room actually. So I think that the people who are here want to be here. I don't want people here that don't want to be here. So I'm grateful that you're here, you know. Yeah, is there anyone else? Yeah, well I'm certainly grateful. I think diversity is good. And I think having this conversation and actually having some of our opinions and thoughts and ideas being heard by you all is a positive thing. Hi. So you play in previews and I couldn't stop laughing. I thought it was hilarious. Thank you. I was very happy when the New York critics reviewed it so well. And I'm wondering, I didn't know what they would do. Me either. But congratulations. Thank you. And I have to tell you that I quote lines from the play to people all the time. Which one? Yeah, what's your favorite line? Want to know which one? I want to know which one. The two women having the conversation about making the baby genitalia. And I always think, well, if you like this line, you'll like this play. But if you don't, it's not for you. It always gets a laugh. Right. It's terrific. Sometimes silliness is just silly and funny, you know. It doesn't have a racial barrier if it's just silly and funny. And that's also the whole idea is that you laugh until you choke, right? And so I deliberately put stuff in so that I can get you thinking a certain way, you know. And then go this, and then we do a sharp turn, right? Yeah. President, how do I gently and discreetly interest the black people I know in theater? Interest them to coming to the theater? Yeah, to come in any capacity. How do I get them? You could buy them a ticket. We're still in the bridesmaid. Because it's very expensive. I wouldn't buy them a ticket, but I'm afraid it wouldn't be well. I don't know how it would be received. I'd be glad to buy them a ticket. I think you should buy them a ticket. And so I have bought you a ticket. You have no excuse now. Come to this play. You have to see Booty Candy. Yes. Everybody has to see Booty Candy. And you have to see his play. And you have to see it while I'm at play. Exactly. And what's so wonderful about it is that there's room for him and me and 900 others. All you have to do is look up and down Broadway. And you will see all these stories being told by people who look alike and who have the same reality. And they're telling different stories. And so I don't see why there isn't any reason why there can't be Billy, myself, and 17,000 other stories told. And the same goes with your book and her stories. I think that this idea, as Billy was saying, that there's only a space for one at a time. And I don't think that's right. But we're seeing black people here who are interested in theater. Like, why are we ignoring the fact that there are black people of color in the audience? Because she was speaking particularly about her friends. I just want to acknowledge that there are plenty of people of color here. And we come to theater. I grew up in theater. You know, we are a part of this community. And sometimes I feel like white people don't see it. There was someone over here. But buy her a ticket. She don't need a mic. She's an actress. Speak up. Oh, they're live streaming it, honey. For the live stream. You have to talk on the live stream. Right. Streaming live stream. But just to comment on the two comments that were just made, I think one of the reasons why you will see a lot of brown faces starting to enter the theater and be here is because that there are stories that we can see ourselves on stage. That hasn't happened for a long time. I'm a recent graduate student from Yale. This is the friend of mine who just came out of the program at UNC. And one of the reasons why Booby Candy was so exciting to me, one of the reasons why I let live, is so exciting is because it has brown faces. It's telling another story. I do a lot of classical theater. I didn't become interested in Shakespeare until I saw people that looked like me doing it. And now I do it all the time. I'm doing the tempest at La Mama. I was in the seconds and over and I was like, oh, my god. Exactly. Promotion. And that's all a plug. But that's why it's so exciting. This panel is so exciting because it features for African-Americans or brown people or black people, however you want to refer to them, it features them. And in that way, I feel like I'm being featured. And you want to come out. And these stories need to be told and they need to be heard. So buy a ticket because you won't know unless you offer it to somebody. You don't know how they're going to respond or how they're going to receive it. And a lot of different people can introduce different types of people to the theater. It doesn't matter about race, color, creed, religion, none of that. They have stories to tell. They have truths to be heard. And I think it's all of our responsibility to pay it forward in that way. So buy somebody a ticket. Support the Yarks. Yeah. Have a great evening. Right. Thanks. Back there, Mary. Hi. Hi. My name's Jeffrey Thompson. And I'm pushed on here because I am moved by what I saw when I came to the theater a week or so ago. This is booty candy. I think it's a brilliant exploration of humanity. And the humanity is larger than just the people that I see on this stage. I fell in love with you when I saw Interaction years ago. And I thought that your ability to break through time and space and put us in unusual situations at a blink of an eye was something that I thought was any playwright would be proud to be able to do what we do with that. Someone used the term to describe how you take us in this particular play from moments of hilarity to moments of deep pain and extreme truth. And again, a shout out to all five of these amazing performers who take your words and your ideas, and they bring them to life in a way again that I thought was starling. Because each of them is so close to their own personal truth that they can take you to where you allow them to go with the words they allow us as an audience to go. But you do it with the words that I think one of the two of you described as grace. You have a grace in which you snatch people to places that they probably would not go if you gave them a warning of what was coming. But they go there and they come back from there and you gracefully let them in and out. The other thing that I just wanted, this is a question that I have for all of you there. I'm really happy, so happy to be here to see all of you extremely talented people sitting on this panel and to see the ceilings that are getting the little splinters in them and shattering in certain ways. But a lot of times I think that with our success has come brand new ghettos that people build for us. There are none of you here who are speaking about issues of being both African-American, homosexual who aren't also qualified to speak about any other issue that you chose to speak about. My years of being in the theater, I have never found any reluctance to any Caucasian director, producer telling my story and assuming that they have the right to tell my story and to write concisious versions of my story once on this island. And, but have you all felt an embrace that if you decided to write a play about a Jewish shtetl in Poland because the people in that story spoke to you. Have you, are you finding a theater or a film world that will embrace you as writers, performers, directors outside of the circle, which is getting larger, thank God, in which they're comfortable in that you can sing, but are you also being welcomed in those other areas because you should be? Quite so. You know, I have a play called Antebellum that Billy did a reading. That's stunning. Thank you, Germany. And it's about a Jewish family in the South and it's told in the 1930s on the eve of Gone with the Wen and it's told at the same time as another story is being told in Germany, Berlin. And it sort of time travels back together. So, you know, I have learned like Billy is like, you know, I can't wait for you to let me do anything. I'm gonna do it. And, you know, for instance, I did booty candy four years ago. So while it's a new play for you all, I've moved forward and I have other things that I'm already working on. You know what I mean? So when you are ready for that, somebody will build it and put it in there. But I can't wait for them in order to go there, you know? So I don't get calls about certain things because I think that obviously they are not interested in or whoever they are. You wouldn't think, oh, let me call Robert O'Hara to write about the Stettl, you know? But I'm a writer and so I'll write you if you pay me, you know what I mean? Anything, I've never been to back in time and my first play had a man going back in time, you know? So I think you just have to go there as an audience. As an audience. Yeah, Billy, do you wanna, you guys wanna respond? You know, I'm still so new in terms of what I'm writing, what I'm being produced, what's being produced for me. So I don't know, I know I did it. I created a review of Sondheim's music. Back in 2007, that was, you know, based on the seven ages of man's speech from as you like it. So we were telling the story of the circle of life from birth to death through Sondheim music, Shakespeare text and an all black cast because I'm obsessed with Sondheim and I can't get cast in none of his shows so I've made my own show. And Sondheim let you do that. Yeah, he worked with us, he let us do it. He, you know, like I pitched it to him. I was in his house working on my show. Yeah. You know, and it was amazing, you know, but the experience was amazing. But, you know, the response was questionable. And not because of the work, but because there were audiences that were not ready for R&B, soul, gospel, hip hop and rap arrangements of Sondheim music. Not yet. They were not ready. So, you know, I don't know. I'm still gonna do it. You know, I'm still gonna continue to do my work. I'm still gonna do it because I'm an artist and I have to. So, you know, hopefully, you know, I'll be around long enough and. So your button and comment, like you guys have done stuff that I can say that people may not be ready for it. You know, Harlem Pride, are they ready? You know, you found out that the number of them were, but you had to go out and say, you know, because you could have had five people show up. Exactly. Initially, we didn't necessarily think people were ready for. But what people really aren't ready for is our overall push right now to have a community pride center uptown. People, why do you need one uptown? There's one on 13th Street, it's in the village. Well, guess what? There are. You've migrated. Right. You've kicked out of the village a long time ago. Right, exactly. I can't afford the village. You can't afford the village and sometimes I'm not comfortable in the village, to be absolutely honest. So, you know, there is a need for cultural competence uptown. And I find myself when asked, getting slightly bit angry as if there are libraries downtown. Why can't we have one uptown? There are firehouses and police stations downtown. We have those uptown. Why can't we have a center uptown? So it's a question I almost don't even like to address. It's just the fact that we will have one. Well, it goes back to the whole thing, you know, when people would say, well, you know, do you have to do the gay and the black thing? Yeah, right. Can you just leave that, because there have to be a gay and a black show. Once again, hide yourselves. Right, put your left arm out. Hide yourselves. And come in with just your right side of your body. Hide yourselves. You ain't saying that to Jack Nicholson. But there is just in terms of, you know, are they ready? Like, I emphatically believe that they are. Emphatically believe that they are. I mean, that show that you did, I literally thought, was that before Obama was elected president? Which one? The one that you, the sunlight before. Right. I bet you would get a totally different response now. You know, it's, there is an evolution that's happening around race, around sexuality, that, you know, that obviously is part of our history in this country, but has sped up in terms of looking at intersectionality around race and sexuality. And that's what I found with, you know, with my film and taking it all over the country, all over the world. We're having a new conversation around this and there's hunger for it. And which I think, going back to Obama, which I think started with Obama, because I'm gonna tell you, when he, right before the election, when he came out and said, gay marriage should happen, I thought for sure, we would have a new president. That's how bad it is in the black community. That's how bad it is in the black community. He changed it. He changed it. He changed it. He changed it and I was so like pleasantly surprised that it turned out the way that it turned out because I was sure all these black church people are done with him. But there were, there was a whole coalition that was formed and of course defeated. But we still have issues. I'm also a member of the LGBT faith leaders of African descent, which is another Harlem based organization. We still deal with certain churches, particularly in Harlem, who are not open and affirming, who still preach fire and brimstone. And that's probably one of the reasons as a preacher's kid, you know, and I come from the holiness background. I'm married. Yes, me too. So you know. So you know. Church of God in Christ. Yes. But you have that in the Catholic church. But you have it. It's not just. I mean, you know. It's not universal. I mean, it's universal in that sense. Exactly. But it's still a fight. Yeah. It's still a fight. It's still an uphill fight, I think at this point. And yes, it's getting easier, but it's definitely a fight. And particularly to your point in our community. And of course, not everybody's Baptist or holiness. There are black Catholics, et cetera. Atheists. Atheists, et cetera. But it's still a struggle. It's still a struggle. I don't think we've made it yet. I mean, just for instance, Obama used, he's evolving. So I go home one particular Christmas and my father who likes to talk about, likes to talk about, oh, she's a teacher. And oh, she did this and she did everything, but she's a lesbian. So it's like a big secret when I go home. Like a Neil Simon play. Yes, yes, yes. It's like, you know, don't go to church. We're not sure if you can bring your girlfriend, all of a sudden. It's just drama. I mean, that's the play in and of itself. But he sits me down. You know, I've been wanting to talk to you. I'm like, oh God, okay. Your mother and I are evolving. No, it's just like, that's good though. No, it's good. And I'm just saying from my perspective in this whole thing, you're like, okay, brace yourself. Because you don't know what you're gonna get. Right, because my definition of evolving isn't necessarily his definition, though I respect whatever it is. All right, and everyone I think evolves at a different pace. Was there something else? Yes. One more question. Sorry, we got up on a tangent. We did. Right here. That's why we're here. If you make it quick, you might do a deadline. Great white woman. I thirst for theater and other art for people who are different from me. So bring it on. I love it. I'm looking forward to following the career of all of you. And here's my question for Mr. O'Hara. I think you've got a lot of, the play is so funny and you deal with a lot of painful stuff. You deal with stereotypes. I'm a college professor and I had an ugly incident once with some graduate students who were saying, well, like the girls with names like Shanique, they're gonna get jobs and stuff like that. And here you are with characters named Genitalia and Vitti Bada. And could you talk a little just about, Great question. I don't know, just all these choices which I think are so wonderful and so. Well, I just think that there's truth in stereotypes. There's value in stereotypes. It gets us all on the same page, especially if they're ridiculous in a way. And if you can show how ridiculous a stereotype is, then you've sort of defeated it. If you can laugh at it. I think that, in fact, there are people with crazy, crazy. I mean, my partner is Jewish and half his family has crazy names. And they've changed them, right? So I think, I don't think it's particular to black people or any group of people, but I think that if you put a stereotype on stage, if you keep at it long enough, then you can find a truth inside it. So the Genitalia stereotype is that it has a ring to it. All right. You know, there's a grace to it. And- I'm gonna punch you in your face. Right, but people, and they're on the phone, and everyone has it wrong. Someone thinks she's calling it this, this, this, this, this, and it's all about things that you're not supposed to say. So I sort of try and play around with things that you're not supposed to say and you're what you're not supposed to do. And yet we all do that. We all have Genitalia, you know? So what are we hiding for them? So that's where the idea of stereotypes comes up. I love to play with those things because it's the thing I can choke you with them. And so we have to end now, but I just want to thank these panelists for your time. Thank you. And I want to thank you all so much for coming off tonight. It's a great lesson. Good-bye. Have a great rest of your evening. Thank you. Thank you.