 And I said, we'll take it from the unicorn, Justin. That was that. That was the end of that conversation. Hey, everybody. Have you heard the news? HTC's got a new phone. So does Apple, apparently. We'll be talking mostly about the HTC phone, but this little company, Apple, has a phone coming out. And Paul's got that one early. We've got one of that. Wow, look at that. I'm in the old HTC. And it's not even a YouTuber. Is there a little mini ramp before we start the show? There is nothing more insufferable than a bunch of tech writers who are entitled to have things earlier begin to bitch about, oh, no, the YouTuber's got it first. Yeah, no, here's the backstory on that for anybody. And I know Justin knows this. For years, tech writers complained, you only give it to David Pogue and Walt Mossberg. You only give it to three people. You only give it to five people. And then, of course, I'll shut up when they got it. So now we're cresting the wave down the other side. It's like, listen, you're all going to review it. Don't worry. She's like, give me the scoop. Hey, we play Access Journalism. Give me the scoop first. Cheap, cheap, cheap. Little baby bird. Cheap, cheap, fun, fun. Go on, I'm on the line. Give me the iPhone. Cheap, cheap. We had serious conversations had seen that. We moved to New Zealand to be in the future. That's how you do it. That's how you do it. Wait, is that why you got it? You got it all because it's like, you're going to get one in a store and you're still going to have it ahead of half of the world. That's smart. Smart move. I should have went to New Zealand and then. Should have been born in New Zealand. Yeah, but does New Zealand still have birthright citizenship or do you have to have a parent? You just can't become part of Australia's government, but you'll be fine. Well, just French government. So who knows what the rules are going to be next. I'm not allowed to live here. Yeah, I don't know. Don't look too close. You're an expat. Oh, we had a long discussion about that or short discussion about that. All right. Well folks, the time has come. Man, it's time for me to start looking for iPhone 10 wallet cases. That is also a time that has come. That's it. Anyway, that's Justin's inner monologue theater. Hey there, Roger. Hey, I'm sorry, I'm trying to figure out where this news bit goes, but I'll just leave it here. All right. Sorry, I just need to- Oh, Paul, how do you want me to introduce you as being from guerrilla media or? Also need control when you get a chance. Oh, this is always the challenge, isn't it? We're too many hats. Which have- Guerrilla technology and New Zealand tech podcast. How's that? We'll just pick one. Got it. All right. Here we go. The Daily Tech News show is powered by its listeners, not outside organizations. If you get value from the show, consider giving a little back. As little as a dollar a month keeps great tech news and analysis coming your way, commercial free. Find out more at DailyTechNewsShow.com slash support. This is the Daily Tech News for Thursday, November 2nd, 2017 at DTNS headquarters in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt. And it's studio feeling at the beach. I'm Sarah Lane. On the goose laden shores of Oakland, I'm Justin Robert Young. I'm very excited to have with us from guerrilla technology and the New Zealand tech podcast, Paul Spain is back. How are you, Paul? I'm fantastic. Good to see you again. Good to see you too. Paul, not only is on Friday, where the iPhone is already on sale, but got it a couple of days early and is gonna share some thoughts about that with us. But let's start with a few tech things you should know. Roger Chang is here too. Here we go. Hello, I am here. Qualcomm is suing Apple for violating a software license allegedly by sharing Qualcomm's source code for modems with Intel and refusing to let Qualcomm conduct an audit of software handling in the iPhone. Apple and Qualcomm have several other ongoing lawsuits. So add this one to the pile. Google is shutting down its API that gives companies access to its airfare search feed as of April 10th of next year. So that's 2018. And we'll focus instead on the enterprise version of the feed. Google was required to provide access to ITA third party travel info services for five years after acquiring ITA on April 12th, 2011. So I guess we just got a year for free. Hmm, Lenovo announced that it has agreed to buy a majority stake in Fujitsu's personal computer unit for up to $269 million. Lenovo posted a profit of $139 million in Q2. It's the biggest quarterly jump since 2015, but still a decline over one year ago. Inside EV estimates that 50% more electrical vehicles sold in October versus one year ago. So on the up and up. Chevy and its Bolt EV sold the most at 2,781 units. Toyota and the Prius Prime second with 1,626 units. Tesla numbers released yesterday would put it in front of Toyota, but behind Chevy for the first time. And US Senator Sue Collins of Maine and Martin Heinrich of New Mexico introduced the Securing America's Voting Equipment Act Tuesday. It would allow a bug bounty program called the Cooperative Hack the Election Program that would allow an annual competition to hack election equipment sorely needed in this reporter's opinion. Now, here are some more top stories. HTC announced two new versions of its HTC U11 phone. The HTC U11 Plus has a larger six inch 2880 by 1440 screen with that 18.9 and or two one aspect ratio. Smaller bezels, war on bezels is hot and hot enough. 3,930 milliamp hour battery that's bigger than the original U11. Android 8 Oreo, Google Assistant and Amazon Voice Services still has the squeezable side but now when you squeeze it you get a radial menu that can help you get quickly to certain places. A model with six gigabytes of RAM and 128 gigs of storage will come to the UK for 699 pounds November 20th. That'll cost you 799 euros in Europe. The HTC U11 Plus has no price or release date for the Asian markets yet. No ship dates for any of these. HTC also announced the U11 Life. That one's coming here to the US. It's a less expensive version of the original U11 with a smaller 1080p 5.2 inch display, Snapdragon 630 chip, 2600 milliamp hour battery at 32 gigs of storage with three gigs of RAM cost you $350 available now and hitting the store shelves on Friday or Saturday if you're Paul. It's kind of funny how many different five point whatever inch screens we just don't know. To the point where I'm like, Sitch inch that's crazy but it's really not much bigger than a 5.7. And apparently the U11 Plus was going to be the Pixel 2 XL at some point but then Google changed their mind. That's the word on the street, yeah. So this is a Pixel quality phone. That's not a Pixel. Yeah, and will it save HTC's mobile unit? Hold your breath. It should, it's a very nice phone. This is HTC's curse. They always have very nice phones. It's a very, very nice phone. Cost prohibitive for HTC to, at this point it's like so many of the specs are like, okay, you know, everyone's kind of doing the same thing but if you can undercut some competitors then you'll move some units. I think they have to draw on their existing fan base to keep a bit of market share but there's now so much competition. It's really, really hard for them even though they are making good phones. HTC sent me the U11 when that came out and a very nice phone, not questioning that but with so many other phones coming through it is really hard for them to stand out. And somebody mentioned to me that they thought that HTC's maybe pulling out of New Zealand market so they may be doing that with some of the smaller markets and just not bothering anymore because if you've got small percentage points in a small market, pretty hard to make a profit on that. Reuters reports that Apple app developers are now allowed to request facial data from users of the iPhone 10 as long as the data is not sold to third parties. Yeah, that would be an issue. With user approval, app developers can capture the map of a user's face and then track expressions from there. This would mean the data would be stored off of the phone and on developer servers so some people are gonna have an issue with that. The data is not enough though to unlock a phone with face ID that has to go through Apple's OS itself. I'm okay with this, like they're asking for your permission. So if you just say no. To me it's not unlike being like access the camera roll. You know, one of those stories that happens whenever there is a technological kind of move forward and to be honest, we're gonna talk about it a little bit more when we get to the tech hearings on Capitol Hill, but it's scary to read it and not scary the more you know about it and the more you are understanding of how these systems work and how these systems are made better. And I agree with you. Yeah, I think it opens up a range of new software. I saw the beta of some new Snapchat that will use that data to overlay things onto your face and what not as Snapchat does today but using the 3D capabilities on the iPhone 10. And yeah, you're gonna miss out on all sorts of functionality if you don't enable that. And really it's, I guess it's just doing what connect and other things have done before but you get to allow it or disallow it. So it all makes sense to me. A team of students from MIT called Lab 6 have published a paper showing how they create a 3D adversarial images that full machine vision systems into thinking for example, a turtle is a rifle. Adversarial images are essentially optical illusions for AI and can be used as a tax on systems. For example, a yard sign that appears to be appears to a machine as a pedestrian. The big advance here is that usually rotating an object lets the machine properly recognize it and this new method works in three dimensions. Yeah, so this is crazy cool from this perspective of oh, we have gotten that good with AI that we can now start fooling it, right? It's good enough that fooling it doesn't prove it doesn't work, fooling it is an attack vulnerability. And that's what seems to be going on if I understand adversarial images, right? There are things where you're like, there's a quirk in the way the machine vision works that will make it misidentify things that we obviously would be able to tell. But it's good enough that that stands out. And so you can use that because most of the time it seems to recognize everything well, but if you construct it in just this proper way, it'll fool it. Now 2D images that was easy to mitigate against because you're like, okay, just rotate it a little, ah, okay, I see what it is now. But being able to do this with 3D images, this is a 3D image printed turtle that has just the right shadows and effects that no matter how you turn it, that machine vision was saying, yeah, rifle. Yeah, you cannot bring that turtle on the plane. Poor turtle. Oh, I mean, does this scare you guys at all or is it just sort of too abstract still at this point? Well, I mean, this is a story that will not be very scary and will probably only be talked about on shows like ours because there is no practical application to scare people right now, right? There's no way to say this is the thing that will unlock your home and let unsavory burglars in so they get all of your personal belongings. This is a interesting experiment that might be extraordinarily interesting, but no one's really put that spin on it that can make it terrifying. I mean, if you wanted to like put it into like Doomsday scenario, it's like, okay, well, if you could infiltrate some sort of autonomous vehicle software system, right? And so, you know, a car thinks there's a pedestrian or a car thinks a pedestrian is something that's not a person. Yeah. Okay, you know, we could get in some hot water here. You know, right now it's sort of like, oh, that's interesting, you know, it's kind of crazy cool. But I can see where if it got to a real world scenario where it, you know, put people and or any living thing in danger than that, that sucks. Yeah. All right. A couple of earnings reports coming in right as we're doing the show. Blizzard earnings are good. Really no news there. Net revenues were a Q3 record of $1.62 billion versus $1.5 billion, a Q3 last year. Net revenues from digital channels were a record of $1.35 billion. This is Activision and Blizzard. It's not just Blizzard. For the quarter on a non-gap basis, Activision Blizzard's operating margin was 30% and earnings per diluted share were 47 cents compared to 49 cents for last year. So a little bit down on the non-gap earnings. Dirt this. Apple earnings also in, Apple sold just as many iPhones as Wall Street expected. So it didn't disappoint. It didn't exceed. And I think a lot of people are gonna say the fact that it didn't exceed expectations as a disappointment. So get ready for that headline. Right, it's like finally, Apple's falling off. We hear this every quarter. But it did make more money on the phones that it sold. Earnings per share were $2.07 versus an expected $1.87 and revenue was $52.6 billion versus $50.7 billion. So the expected Apple horrible quarter does not seem to have manifested. So yeah, there will be more coming out of Tim Cook's earnings call after our show is done recording when we may pick up if there's anything interesting to talk about that tomorrow. Yeah, I assume that will probably be if they do any kind of hinting on iPhone 10 sales, right? Yeah, yeah. And they'll be doing forecast. I mean, they'll be forecasting earnings. And so far, it looks like the forecast for the holidays is pretty good. At least Apple's optimistic. And Apple's historically very conservative. Well, folks, if you wanna get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes, subscribe to Daily Tech Headlines at DailyTechHeadlines.com available on the Amazon Echo and the Anchor app as well. What Apple is counting on is that you're all gonna buy the iPhone 10 and make up any slow sales of the iPhone 8. Paul Spain, you've had your hands on the iPhone 10 for a couple of days, worth it? Well, that's a big question. It is certainly a big step up in price for people. And that's really the unknown for me in terms of will people step up in the sort of numbers that Apple are hoping for? And if they do, this has got to have a pretty positive impact on the share price you were just talking about. And this could be the thing that turns them into the next or the first trillion dollar company. So, yeah, I'm kind of curious where this is going to go. I think, I mean, naturally, a lot of people will be stepping up because people just like to try Apple's latest products. And it is a bit of a differentiated product from everything else that they've got. Right now, a few bits and pieces. Yes, OLED screen looks slick. The blacks are super black. You've got great contrast. But for me, I'm pretty used to our top handsets having great screens anyway. And maybe that isn't something that I particularly am looking for. The little chunk out of the screen at the top means that apps do need to be, and also the new aspect ratio, apps do need to be refreshed. And right now, most apps don't take advantage. So oftentimes, you'll fire up an app. And what you will see is that it will look much like your iPhone 8. It adds like the appearance of bezels. Yeah, so it looks as though you've got a big bezel on the top and bottom to a big degree. So that's just something to be aware of. I would imagine that the big application developers will get updates out reasonably soon. But we've already got things from the likes of Google and Microsoft that aren't leveraging the bigger screen just yet. I would have thought they would be there right out of the gate. Wireless charging, which of course is sort of the norm for a lot of other handsets. I think most people that haven't already moved to an iPhone 8 will probably appreciate that as that sort of ecosystem grows. I certainly find it really convenient just being able to drop the phone down on the wireless charger. Getting used to the lack of the home button, that's not too much of a big deal. But the big thing I think that people are really curious about is this idea of unlocking the screen without touch ID, using face ID. How well does it work? Well, there seem to be mixed reports on that and certainly my experiences are fairly mixed. I woke up this morning a bit too early and blurry-eyed looked into my phone, tried to unlock it. I'm guessing I was holding it too close to my face. That's the, I guess the testing I've done suggests holding it back a little bit further helps. So there's a tip for anyone who's struggling with unlocking the camera. I wonder if it was blurry-eyedness. Well, that could have been the case too, but I tried it with sunglasses on a couple of days ago and it works fine. So it's able to draw from varying aspects. So if it's not able to see your eyes, it seems to handle that. I did wonder whether because I scanned it with glasses on that it wasn't working so well when I didn't have my glasses on. I'm not sure about that. I think it might be to do with just how close it is to your face. So if you're very short-sighted and you need to hold your phone super close, then that could be something to be aware of. But yeah, I think it is still a little bit variable but it's much, much better than any of the other phones that I've come across that have this type of capability. And also Microsoft Surface products which use a similar technology to unlock. I'm finding that Face ID seems to be the best that we've seen yet. And it really needs to be because it is the primary way of getting into your phone. And a little bit frustrating when you need Face ID to unlock other things. So I was trying to get into a last pass this morning and my alternative to Face ID is having to put in a huge long password. So that was an ideal, but I think that the software will improve and certainly will work out what those little tricks are to make Face ID work a little bit better. The other thing is that that camera enables Portrait Mode from your front-facing camera, which is this kind of cool. Paul. Paul. How do you know the fail to the face side? Like crazy echo from somewhere. And I'm not sure where. It came out of nowhere. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Justin, go ahead. Paul, how would you compare the failure rate of Face ID to the failure rate of Touch ID? I found Touch ID was generally pretty good, but then there's situations where you've got food on your hands or your hands are wet and so on. In most everyday situations, it's probably around the same would be my guess not having, I've only used it for about two days. You are. But then the early morning wakeups I found have been the issue. And I think that I've found the trick there which is just holding the phone a little bit further away from your face. That's similar to Windows Hello with Microsoft. Because one out of 30 times, it'll tell me like you're too close. Of course, sometimes I'm not that close and it's something else, but yeah, that seems to be a feature of facial recognition. But it, yeah, you can hold it reasonably close though. So it's, yeah, but overall pretty good. Pretty good. Well, go check out Paul's write up about this at PaulSpain.com if you wanna know a little more about what's going on with the iPhone 10. We also wanna talk about the congressional testimony here in the US yesterday, representatives from Google, Facebook and Twitter sat at microphones on Capitol Hill and answered questions from US senators and representatives who showed us pictures of scary ads. Justin, what should we as people who just wanna use technology take away from all this? My recommendation would be very, very little that most of the people that are listening to this show and have a concerted interest in technology probably would not be made smarter by listening to people that do not know about how these systems work. Talk to lawyers whose job is to not say anything that could get the companies that employ them into any further legal hot water. This was an exercise as Congress's want to do in getting Congress people's face on television. And one of the most humorous moments in the hearings that I saw and I admittedly did not see all of it was and I forget which Senator, a chastising the lawyers for not, for being the ones in front of them and not the CEOs themselves. In his language, it was because they are the ones who make the decision. The way I heard it is that we would be getting far more coverage if far more famous people were answering our point of question to lawyers. Listen, this is obviously a serious issue. The idea of regulation of political ads on social networks is here. It is not coming. Either Facebook, Google, Twitter, and any other social network that pops up are going to regulate these themselves and they are going to make their own independent agency in the same way that movies created the MPAA here in America to create a self-governance body that was independent of them yet created by them or they are going to use their lobbying muscle to make the legislation that will come down as not onerous as possible for them. But these meetings here where we get a bunch of scare tactics on, you know, Facebook admitted that 140 million people might have seen Russian propaganda. That is in the way that it was covered and certainly the way that it was discussed in these hearings, half of the American population shocked in horror without really understanding that a lot of times something that is served to you is not seen by you, it is scrolled by by you, it doesn't necessarily guarantee that you have grok that information let alone made any kind of decision based on the information that you saw. And as the lawyers tried to explain, but again, they're lawyers and they have a vested interest in not getting into a firefight with Al Franken on television, they try to just move things on as fast as possible. These are oftentimes for me who covers both politics and technology, very frustrating because I don't believe that it necessarily furthers our understanding of what the right legislation should be on this, nor does it further explain to a populist that does not really understand this technology, how this technology works. Paul, I'm curious, you know, from a country that doesn't have an election that has the controversy that ours has, but because what happens in the US Congress often is used as a model around the world, how does this sit with you? Well, you know, we have a little bit of legislation around how things operate in New Zealand and the main one that people tend to fall out of line on is that they're posting on social media on election day, that happens from time to time and someone gets in a little bit of trouble around that. But I think this is an issue that could have fairly widespread impact if we don't figure out a way to get a handle on it. And I don't think it's an easy thing to manage really, but I mean, there are so many interests in political outcomes that you can imagine a lot of money could get spent, not just in the US, but in other parts of the world to manipulate outcomes. And, you know, in some cases I imagine it would be probably reasonably hard to track because these things aren't always maybe cut and dried and clear in terms of exactly what's going on. I mean, we're already dealing obviously with a lot of investment in bots to manipulate opinions, whether it's related to elections or otherwise. Are there gonna be rules that will shut those down as well? Obviously there's efforts going to stop that sort of thing, but I don't think it's something you can entirely stop. Unfortunately, regardless of what happens here, but hopefully the technology is such that it can be resolved. But what the legal lines are that can be drawn that's gonna be pretty interesting to follow, I think, and it will have global implications. I'll tell you what it looked like to me, reading the tea leaves, because I agree with you, Justin, there was a lot of posturing and a lot of, I wanna say something so that I can say something else later about what I said versus let me actually get to the problem. It does seem like there was an organized effort. You can decide for yourself, there is no evidence, you can decide for yourself how much of this effort was directed by the Russian government or not. It can't be directly connected to them, but it's connected to organizations who are known to have worked with the government. And it seems to have been sort of a vulnerability test, not a coordinated effort. The messages were sent on both sides, they were sent to disrupt people and get them angry, and not a lot of money was spent as far as ad budgets go. 123 million, 126 million reach sounds big, but like Justin said, if that's just one ad per person, that's a very ineffective ad campaign. You guys know how much you complain about ads that you see all the time, and the reason ads are repeated all the time is they have to be repeated all the time for people to even notice them. So $46,000 spent on advertising by one agency, $100,000 total, isn't a lot if you actually wanna have an effect, but it might be the amount you would spend if you wanna do a test, if you wanna see what works and position yourself for causing more trouble next time. And again, you can decide for yourself who this might or might not benefit, but to me, it looks like what they're doing is just like, how do we cause trouble? How do we rile some people up? Well, that certainly seems to be the aim by the Russian interests, and this is something that if you pay attention globally that they have done in other countries is not necessarily to push an agenda, but rather to sow discord by way of using the targeted data that Facebook and Twitter provide. And now, let me not mince words here. Facebook, Twitter and Google are going to, whether by legislative action or by their own doing, be more transparent about who is paying for ads and that's going to happen. All the companies have said so. Congress has said so. This is an inciting incident that will make the elections in 2018 and certainly the presidential elections in 2020 here in America look different. You are going to see icons on these ads where you're gonna be able to click and see where it was paid for. That is gonna be something that will just be there. It will create another data point, but go back to the original. There is nothing served by the grandstanding here. It will solve this problem in the same way that they solved steroids in baseball. Yeah, ask Alex Rodriguez who has a lovely broadcasting career now. Yeah. Hey, thanks to everybody who participates in our subreddit. You can submit stories and vote on them at dailytechnewshow.reddit.com and of course join in on our Facebook, Facebook.com slash groups slash daily tech news show. Time to check in with the audience. You guys, what are you thinking? Sarah, what are they thinking? Well, let's check in with Bob who says, hello, Tom, Sarah, Roger, Justin, and today Paul. Regarding the HoloLens discussion from yesterday's show got me thinking about my own industry where design and eye design construct large pieces of equipment into existing high voltage stations. So kind of dangerous stuff. Having a HoloLens with actual transformers to visually see the clearances around equipment would be extremely helpful. Often we can't measure distances as the equipment needs to be remain energized to keep customers online. Therefore we can't get 20 feet up in the air. We can't get around a bunch of 345,000 volt equipment just to measure the horizontal distance of something. So it's very complex. Bob says, this also led me to thinking about using the HoloLens to visualize OSHA clearances for energized work. Having a bright red zone of protection, say, to visually warn a worker to keep out of a certain radius for safe working distance would be great, really safe. It would also allow visually lane that work and equipment movement to ensure pre-planning safety de-energizes all the required equipment. So there you go. There's somebody in the industry saying, I can tell you, you know, I can knock off easily five things that would help a lot. His point about visualizing OSHA clearances and the zone of protection is brilliant. You know, there's one of the things that the HTC Vive when it launched was great at, which was telling you where the zone ended, which also helped you not run into walls and coffee tables and things like that. This, where it's even more dangerous to stray, is pretty great. Thank you, Bob, for sharing the insight. Thank you, Paul Spain, for joining us as well. If people want to find out more about that iPhone X review or anything else you got going on, where should they go? Either the NZ TechPod or NZTechPodcast.com or PaulSpain.com. Excellent. Justin, Robert Young, of course, always a pleasure to have you. You're coming back tomorrow, actually. Yeah, I'm making my way down to LA so I can come to BlizzCon over the weekend. So if you are at BlizzCon, then go ahead and follow my Twitter. I'll be happy to hang out with everybody. Also, if you are in Philadelphia, the 17th and the 18th, on the 17th I am going to be at PAX Unplugged. It is a penny arcade expo for tabletop games. I'm going to be giving a talk there. Very, very cheap single-day tickets. If you want to be there for three o'clock, me and my co-creator, John Teesdale, I'm going to tell you how to lose $40,000 on a successful Kickstarter. The first time we're giving that talk, I'm very proud of it. And the next night, that's Saturday, the 18th, I will be live at Shot Tower Coffee and doing a live version of the Politics, Politics, Politics podcast. I am so excited. My first solo show out on the road, and it's a free show with a suggested donation. So come on by. It's going to be really, really awesome. Again, that is the 18th Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Shot Tower Coffee, a live edition of my political show, Politics, Politics, Politics. I mean, on the whole, I'd rather be in Philadelphia. So I'm going to head out and try to check that out. I won't be there. But that sounds pretty amazing. So go if you are anywhere near Philadelphia and check it out. Thank you to everybody who is supporting us at patreon.com slash DTNS. I have a regular column that I write every week. I'll have another one coming out this afternoon, and you guys get it if you're on Patreon. You get that and you get a summary of all the week's news in case you haven't had a chance to really dig into the audio and you just want to glance through it. That's one of the perks if you're an associate producer at the $5 a month level. That's like 25 cents an episode. So if you haven't yet, check out all the rewards at patreon.com slash DTNS. And Tom's a really good writer too. It's Joe. Our email address is feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. We want to hear questions, comments, feedbacks, everything in between. Yeah, we're live Monday to Friday at 4.30 PM Eastern. It's 2030 UTC. But just a note on that, 2030 UTC for just one more day because then it's daylight savings time and then we become 2130 UTC. That's Monday, next Monday, here in the state. So I don't know. Tom had a really good explainer wearing a unicorn onesie last week about this. Time changes, it's all a mess, but we will try to keep UTC on board on our side. So if you're confused, don't worry. You can always find us at our website at dailytechnewshow.com and catch up with all of our shows there. 2030 tomorrow, 2130 on Monday. Always 130 Pacific, 430 Eastern. Tomorrow it's Justin, Robert, Yung, and Len Peralta. We'll talk to you then. Take it from the universe. Joe is part of the Frog Pants Network. Get more at frogpants.com. I hope you have enjoyed this program. Nicely done. Good show, guys. It's a great show, you guys. There was so much to talk about. I know. Yeah. I loved it. Hacked. Hope I didn't talk too much jumping in there. No, not at all. In fact, I wanted to keep asking you questions about the iPhone, but there were so many things to cover. Well, we can ask them in the post show if you still got questions. Well, OK. So my main question was not having the home button anymore. That's like, I'm going to get the iPhone 10 at some point. I'm just, I don't know, I'm not going to be at the front of any line to do it. So I'm just kind of waiting to see what everybody thinks. But I can't be left in the lurch. It'll happen eventually. But I don't know. It just seems like such a different UI. I wonder how easy it was for you to get used to it, and especially fast app switching and stuff. You get used to it pretty quickly. The app switching is, I guess, the main bit with the app switching is you sort of swipe up, and then you can move across. I don't know if you can see that. Sorry. Yeah. I mean, I've looked at tutorial videos and things like that. It's like, it looks like it works fine, but it is a departure from what I'm just so used to doing with my eyes closed. Yeah. I found, in fact, oh, I've just learned something new. I found when I was on the home screen that I didn't think I was able to app switch from there, because it didn't seem to be working. But I've just tried again. Maybe I wasn't pushing up quite far enough, and that does actually work. So there you go. But it does seem like a little more effort to turn it off. You've got to hit the, you know, what I would have thought was the power button and then the down, the power volume down, and then the power and the power volume up for screenshot. So, yeah, well, you think you would just hold the power button? No, you've got to, it's no longer a power button. It's the side button. So there you go. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, for those of us who screenshot lots of things. And Apple Pay is a double tap on that side button. Yeah. A little bit like with Apple Watch now. So that's not quite as easy, I think. But hey, it's not. Although actually, to be fair, the most false positives that I get with Apple Pay are when I am trying to double tap for, double tap my home button for something else or to switch an app or something like that, and it winds up coming up like that. Yeah, actually, good point. Like, I've never really had a problem with like, oh, crap, Apple Pay isn't coming up. My problem more often is, why are you trying to make me Apple Pay for something that I'm not asking for? And somewhere an Apple engineer is like, yes. Yes. There was actually a really good, you know, there've been so many iPhone X. Listen to me, iPhone X. iPhone X review unit videos and walkthroughs and hands-ons and whatever. Buzzfeed, one of the reporters there, had such a great one. And what made it so great was, she got her review unit. And the same day, she just woke up with a spider bite on her eye. Oh, god. Yeah. And I mean, it was, you know, this is the video. So you can see, and she's like, well, let's see how Face ID works over the days as this goes away. Because it was pretty dramatic. And it recognized her, you know, like it started to recognize her sort of in a disfigured way. And as the days went on, she was like, I thought I was going to start fooling it. But no, Face ID was like, I understand what happened to you. So if I get this right, did she train it with the spider bite from the beginning? Yes. The spider bite just so happened to be her first day of having the phone. Right, right. So she was like, is it going to be an issue when I go back to my regular face? Right. But it wasn't. Oh, that's why. It was just sort of like that sort of a freak use case that nobody would think of. When I get my iPhone 10, that's why I'm asking Roger to sock me in the eye. You just got, you got to make sure Face ID really knows it's you, you know, because it's going to happen again. By the way, I'm picking iPhone developer saving face as the title. That's funny. Yeah. So are there any other things that have stuck out to you, having used it for a couple of days? I guess the most disappointing thing is just that there are very few apps right now that take advantage of the full screen. Yeah. Also, the video watching experience that, yeah, doesn't tend to take advantage of the full screen. But I haven't. I don't watch a lot of video on on the iPhone. I suppose YouTube and bits and pieces, but not something where I'm wanting to watch a full movie, that sort of scenario. So imagine that's the case where, you know, if you were doing if you were doing that, then having a little chunk out of the side of the screen might annoy you a little bit. But overall, it's here we go now. It's not unlocking. I wonder if it's the microphone in the way or what it is. OK, let's try. Now, this face ID is not not playing ball. At all. So it's nervous. Hmm. Yeah, I think so. So hmm. So I but I imagine there's a software aspect to that that now they've got a much bigger base of users on than they would have had in the weeks prior that they'll probably tweak that a little bit over time anyway. Yeah, there seems to be a little bit of a you're holding it wrong thing kind of happening now where you've seen some criticism with face ID and others who believe it's a great technological step forward are like, no, you're just not doing it right. You shouldn't be trying to wake it up. You should be just holding it and not thinking about it. You have to be in a Zen state. Yeah, on that holding it front, I was I was holding it probably a bit like or a bit like this for a Skype call a couple of nights ago. And then I would get feedback from the other side, saying, Paul, we can't hear you. We haven't been able to hear you for the last 10 or 15 seconds. And I guess the microphone is as they're covering it rather than being on the front. And so it's actually quite easy to to put your put your hand or put your finger over the mute feature. The yeah, yeah, it's not feature. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, we're getting back into this. You're holding it wrong thing, which is kind of kind of your face is wrong. Yeah, I need to chop a couple of fingers off. And then I won't have an issue with blocking the microphone. So I mean, if you really care about the proper experience. Now, the fixer was saying, like, I'm curious what happens if someone starts with a normal face and he says gets disfigured. But, you know, let's say you have like significant damage. Would would it still work? It's a theoretical. It's not a practical criticism. But yeah, but it does like, I mean, my my example of the spider bite is like spider bite goes away slowly, right? Yeah, yeah, started. And then it went away slowly and face it is like, no, that's still you. If for some reason you, you know, your face changed dramatically from one day to the next. Yeah, that would probably be an issue. But again, hopefully it's not a widespread issue. Well, yeah, like if you have a big nose job, apparently that that won't set it off. But what if you lose your nose? It's horrible to think about. I don't think these are really big problems in the world. No, no, these are definitely not practical issues. I'm not trying to say they are. I'm just it's still just curious. This is not a by decision. Like, I don't know if I lose my nose, it might not work. That the question is, guys, it's a lot of money. I think it's because people really want to break it. Like, Pete, there's a there's a desire to break that feature. How far does it go? People are people are very desirous to make face ID not work. And that's if you look at like a lot of the coverage that's gotten the biggest social traction, it's all we gave twins. We tried to get twins to full face ID. And we got young triplets and boy triplets and girl quadruplets. And then they were young and old and apples. Like, we told you, it doesn't really work with twins. We told you that. Well, I'm trying to claim. And it seems as if, you know, the it is most vulnerable to young twins that that adult which is even less of an issue, right? Like, yeah, that they're going to have two iPhone 10s. So Mary Kate and Ashley won't have a problem. Well, I mean, that's a hand to when you're sleeping. Well, he's actually sleeping. Somebody's fine if they're asleep. Yeah, but their eyes have to be open and looking at it, right? Well, if it works through sunglasses, I'm not. No, it works through sunglasses because of infrared. Oh, it actually sees your eyes. Yeah. Serious question. Can if they were remaking weekend at Bernie's, could they unlock Bernie's iPhone? I mean, as I presumably his eyes are open with face. I mean, we had this whole conversation about like, when someone's in a coma, can you use, you know, touch ID to like get all their sensitive information? And it was like, it doesn't really work that way. So I don't want to get probably not a practical problem. Just guy who's been dead for 40 years is going to be. Well, he won't. He wouldn't have face ID anyway. Well, no, this would be going to remake it. There's a new weekend at Bernie's 10. Well, no, I hope they do. I don't know. I was like, come on. Hey, I remember watching the first one or thinking like, they should never, ever do another one of these movies ever. It was just it. I understand it was a comedy, but I was like, I was kind of groaning. I'm going to I'm going to I'm just going to Google search weekend at Bernie's remake and just see any weekend at Bernie's 10. Right. It's got to be the name. Why don't they do in the first one, which was a long time ago? It that wasn't a good movie either. It was or would it be would it be Monday at Bernie's Tuesday at Bernie's? Like, are you saying that the universe is ripe? Yeah, that 430. Well, would it be a Netflix show? She had Memorial. The trailer made it made it look as though it might be entertaining. I never saw the movie. So I think I'll just leave it at that for now. I actually saw the movie. I rented it on VHS. The best thing that that came up here was a pitch. Somebody movie phone dot com. Tried to pitch a weekend at Bernie's remake where they posited it would be. What's his but Bradley Cooper and Kevin Hart, of course. Yeah, Alan Arkin as Bernie. Yeah. Alan Arkin. Oh, that's not right. Yeah. No, I don't think because Bernie wasn't really old, right? He was like, he was he was he was he was. No, no, he was younger than that. He was like in his late 40s. You guys. No, no, he was like he was like skewering the like greed is good, like 80s power businessman. Yeah, wasn't that a 60 year old dude? Terry Kaiser. All right, well, Terry Kaiser was born in 1939. He played Bernie, which came out in 1989. He was exactly 50. Yeah. Right. I was probably so young that just anyone. Anyone who was older than 30 looked old to me. You thought Andrew McCarthy was old. And they pitched Wayne as the as as as the the director. Which actually now I'm interested in this if David Wayne was doing because I love David Wayne. They should actually turn it into kind of a horror slash thriller movie instead of just a comedy. Well, it was the original one was a black comedy, right? It was a black comedy, but it wasn't like a comedy. So it wasn't like a comedy. I mean, you walk it around a dead person. That's kind of a black comedy. Yeah, in the sense where it's like this is just kind of gross. Yeah. It was it was definitely billed as a funny movie. Yeah, I never understood. Like, isn't rigor mortis supposed to set it at some point where he's just a stiff. Not if you keep him loose at one point. Well, I saw a day stop working with the body. You know what they they should try it with the cadaver and see how far the body degrades before. Want to know what that's I'm texting my buddy Steve at Business Insider. They got to get this is a viral video waiting to happen. I I definitely want to see weekdays at Bernie's the new Netflix reboot series. And it's just Bernie got home hanging out. I wonder what reaction I would get if I just tweeted Will Face ID work with Corpse and then just link colon and just no link under any. I couldn't get a response out of Apple when I did actually fire that question at them. I just record something around, you know, fingerprint recognition. And I think the technology sort of, you know, looks for you to be, you know, alive in the, you know, your iterations of fingerprint scanning. And so that that triggered the question. But yeah, I think it probably it probably wouldn't. Right. Because isn't there an element of heat mapping? Then that's why masks won't work. Oh, yeah, because they did a whole lot of mask tasting, didn't they? Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes sense. So if you wear a mask, it doesn't work or it still works if you have a mask. No, no, you can't wear a mask. Even if it's a really written, isn't that the whole point of a mask to disguise your appearance? Yes. But it works. But it doesn't work for Face ID. You disguise. No, it does work. It disguises your appearance and Face ID can unlock. As Sarah pointed out, pull out the flute because you have to go mask off. Perfect Apple music licensing. Finally. Future gets. Why haven't they got all this? Tom's like, what are we talking about? Ah, I'm Bernie. OK, folks, thank you all for joining us. Don't forget to watch See It or Skip It on Facebook. Watch it's the amazing new show that totally is just accidentally also produced by my wife, but is really good. No, and I'm not even joking. It's really good. Go check it out. It's it's good. I got a reaction out of me because I I did not see it coming. That man of the people verse in the man of the people versus critic thing that the critic would love Thor and the man of the people would not only not like Thor, but go full Schumacher. I could let me I could tell you stories about the edit. Actually, I lean to tell you a story about the end. All right. Thanks everybody for watching. We'll talk to tomorrow.