 Hello and welcome to my career in data, a podcast where we discuss with industry leaders and experts how they have built their careers. I'm your host Shannon Kemp and today we have a special episode recorded at Dataversities Enterprise Data World Conference. With a robust catalog of courses offered on demand and industry leading live online sessions throughout the year, the Dataversity Training Center is your launch pad for career success. Browse the complete catalog at training.dataversity.net and use code DBTOX for 20% off your purchase. Hello and welcome to a special edition of my career in data, a podcast where we discuss with industry leaders and experts how they have built their careers. I'm your host Shannon Kemp and today we are coming to you live from Enterprise Data World and the Women in Data Management and Governance Conference. A very special edition here so for this so I'm very excited to have you here and today we're joined by three amazing women in data management and governance, Gwen Thomas, Kelly O'Neill and Ocrety Agrawal. I have had the pleasure of interviewing all three women individually and you can find their full interviews at dataversy.net for such a podcast. But let's start with a recap and introduction of who you are and what you're currently doing. So Gwen, you are the founder and a data strategist at the Data Governance Institute so tell me about the Data Governance Institute. We are currently an online presence located at datagovernance.com. We have published the industry's first data governance framework. It's 20 years old now and has been adopted by programs all around the globe. There are online materials for a while. There were consulting services through them. I left to do other things now I'm back so that's starting up again. So tell us why did you start the Data Governance Institute? So picture this. The year is 2022. The world is shocked and aghast because it turns out it wasn't actually illegal for corporate executives to friggin lie on their financial reports. Cameron showed this. The world was not as expected. So Congress in the U.S. created the Sarbanes-Oxley Act which said that not only could executives go to prison if they lied but it was essential that reputable auditors conduct very, very thorough audits of the controls over financial reports. So at the time I was working for a small regional IT company. I was feeling quite lucky to have a job because they build themselves as an IT company and my background was in writing and process design and data management and controls. So the guys, yeah it was all guys, just said, well we're glad to have Gwen around because somehow our work product is a little bit better when she's around. I was a little tired of ghost writing all their stuff. So when the big consulting company said, the big auditing company said we're going to have a big announcement about what the impact of Sarbanes-Oxley is on the industry, I said to my boss, me, me, me, me, me, send me, send me and he said, okay, well, sure. So I show up at a room very similar to this, so proud, wearing my red blazer, my pumps carrying a brand new briefcase, I walk into a sea of expensive Navy suits. And those behind the podium went on to talk about it and then someone from the audience said, so, I know why this is called the accountants, I mean the auditors full employment act, but what's the impact on IT? And these global experts said, well, there really isn't any. So I said, what the heck, I raised my hand, they said, the woman. And I said, where do you think this well controlled data comes from? And there was nervous laughter and we all went home and I prepared my trip report, but boy when the big report came out next week, they had included IT. And I thought, all right, so maybe I have a little bit more expertise than I have been giving myself credit for. I told my boss, personal matter, I need to take three weeks off without pay, a leave of absence. He said, okay, he loved saving money. And I immediately created IP that was mine that I had not created on the company dime. I purchased data governance.com because what I had seen in what they reported is, oh, they made room to bring in armies of IT people to implement this and they still were not paying any attention to the rules that go into it, the controls that need to happen, the allocation of decision rights, all this stuff that I've been doing for years under this bizarre obscure term called data governance. So I created this, I came back to work, I said, I'm back, Tony, and I have an idea we should create an offering for Sarbanes Oxley. I want to create IP for you and I want to lead the program. And he said, yes, yes, prove it to me. So I gave him a much lesser version of the IP that belonged to me. I introduced the program. He assigned me someone to mentor and spent the next few years implementing programs, data governance programs here. Meanwhile, I was very careful to brand myself as the expert, not the manager. Because I knew myself. I knew I would be a terrible manager. So I spent a couple of years building up credentials, building up stories, marquee clients, all this good stuff. And then the day that Cobra Health Insurance would cover me under another plan, I went in and said, OK, I'm done here. And my boss said, but we have seven projects lined up and you're the most qualified, frankly, the only expert we have in this field. And I said, oh, really? Here's my rate and spent years doing that. We actually hadn't published as much online at that point, but eventually got to it. And here we are. You did indeed. And the Data Governance Institute was born. So, Gwen, thank you. That's awesome, right? Kelly, you are the founder and CEO of First San Francisco Partners. So tell me about First San Francisco Partners and what you do. Yes, absolutely. So First San Francisco Partners is a consulting company. It was formed in 2007 after datagovernance.com. And I will tell you how important that was to the creation of the company. But so I'm the CEO. We formed the company about 16 years ago. We still work with clients to help them make their information actionable. That is what we do. And so we work with them through the entire data lifecycle, so from the point of data creation or purchase or acquisition or whatever you want to call it, all the way through to archival retention or deletion to make sure that they understand what's needed in order to help improve and grow the business and address business goals and objectives. So we think of ourselves very business-facing as opposed to technically facing. You know, I don't have a technical background either. I also study literature and English and writing and things like that. And we do have really technical people on our staff, but it's all about ensuring that the work that's done from a data perspective supports and aligns with business goals and objectives and making sure that that's measurable and the impact is understood. Because like Monique was saying, you need to be able to demonstrate the impact. So we help our clients do that. So Kelly, what made you want to found your own business? Well, like many entrepreneurs, frustration and not wanting to work for the people that I was working for. So, you know, it was one of those things where at that time I didn't want to do the job that they wanted me to do. And so I looked around at the competitive companies to do essentially the job that they wanted me to do, but do it at another company kind of. And it was when master data management was still relatively new. I was working for Cyperian, which was the master data management company that was acquired by Informatica. And there were very few consulting companies out there, other than the Accenture, the PWC, Capgemini, the Deloitte, that could help us as a sales team because I was on the sales side. Again, don't have a technical background. And there weren't boutique consulting companies that could actually help us with clients to help talk about, okay, yes, you have a data problem and you're in the IT organization, but what does that really mean? How is that impacting your business? And how can you articulate that data problem in something that they're going to understand because guess what, they own the budget? And so on kind of a whim was walking in Central Park with a friend and he's like, you should do that. And I was like, huh, okay, I'm single. I have no dogs, no kids, no house, no, like whatever. So sure, because I can completely fail and why not? And so I did and I just started thinking about what do I need to do? Who do I need to call? How do I pull this together? I've never been a consultant before. Okay, so all of these things was very naive of me to think that it could work. And 17 years later, it still exists. So I will tell you that it is not a straight line. And anyone that wants to start their own consulting company, let me talk to you first. Yeah, it's not easy. Well, and Kelly, you and I have had a lot of conversations over the years about elevating women in their careers. And I am when Tony said, hey, Shannon, should we start a women's event? Yes, let's do it. And I couldn't imagine doing this without Kelly just because of those conversations. So I'm so grateful for you to co-chair this event. So tell me what this means to you and why you said yes. Well, because you asked me number one, and I was so excited, Shannon, that you did because we are, we're a very female focused company, and I've always been very passionate about uplifting women in the workforce. I unfortunately had a couple, luckily not several, but a couple female bosses that what they wanted to do was remove the female competition. And so they were not supportive of other women in the workforce. And I looked around and I was like, this is not right. Like who does this? So I've always been very passionate about it. And so we do it through our company. We take on interns and we do all of that, but we're a small company. So the scope is limited. And so when Shannon came to say, will you do this with me? It's the opportunity to do it on a much broader scale and to be able to really have an impact on a broader scale. So thank you, Shannon. Thank you. I'm so grateful. And Ocrity. Okay, so you're the manager of data governance at a Fortune 100 company. So what does that mean and what are your responsibilities? Yeah, so really putting in, we have a federated model. So how do we implement policies that are being created at our company and make sure everybody understands the importance of data governance and that they're working with good quality data, right? That's what a lot of us are working on. And it's been really interesting to be a middle manager and work up and work down and work across and really get to know a lot of people across the enterprise and see how we can assist. I love it. Well, in addition to a full-time job, you have started not one, but two nonprofits. So tell us about those. Yeah, this should really be called an entrepreneurship panel. I don't know. But you know us women, we're always out there doing way more than we need to be doing. So my first nonprofit, I started when I was 21 and learning to code. So I actually do have a technical background on the data side, but my first job required me to learn how to computer program. And so I started a nonprofit actually inspired by Rishima's non-profit, which is the TED talk that was just referenced. So we used to be a chapter of Girls Who Code National and then became our own called Girls Code Lincoln out in Lincoln, Nebraska. And we grew from seven girls, so they teach about 100 every week now. And it's been a really cool journey to learn, kind of get a crash course on entrepreneurship because you're starting a nonprofit that you just just don't want these girls to fail, right? So it's been really interesting. I led that for about seven years outside of my full-time job. And then currently I'm in the process of starting a nonprofit that hopefully will get approved soon that teaches other people how to start a nonprofit. So you're doing some entrepreneurship support. I have a podcast that'll come out soon and just helping other founders globally learn how to do it, right? So entrepreneurship is hard and most entrepreneurs don't know how to do it. And that's even harder in the nonprofit space where people have most of the time experience the issues that they're trying to solve. And so I'm hoping, it's called the non-profit org. I'm hoping that the non-profit org will help people with that. So I support about 70 founders globally right now and most of them are under the age of 30. And so they're very young. They're working multiple jobs to support their nonprofit goals. And so it's a really, really cool community to be a part of. And I'm really glad I get to contribute to it. That's amazing. And you mentioned that most of the non-profiters are younger. And I would be remiss if I didn't mention that Agri has been nominated not once, but twice for Forbes 30 under 30 for her work. Yeah, congratulations. Amazing, all three of you are amazing. So now, okay, so now when I was recording the original podcast with these women, we had some side conversations which were not recorded. And Gwen, as part of that conversation I had with you, is what inspired this panel. So previously, we had discussed what it was like for you to spend years being the only woman in the room. And what it was like to see generations of women gain admittance just to get a job. So tell us about that. So, yes, working where I was, I was almost always the only female on these IT project teams. Now, I had come from banking, plenty of women there. I had come from publishing, plenty of women there. But suddenly, I was in the Bros Club. And as I said before, my first couple years there, I was supporting the stars of the projects. I was lucky enough to have a boss, a man, who would bring me into his office and mentor me. Now, back then, I did not realize I was autistic. I just knew I could never read a room. He would help me with that. But he would also praise me, give me the praise that I needed. You are clearly the best writer in the whole company. You are clearly the best quality person. You write processes. So please, please don't deny us your talents. And I fell for that for a long time while I got my confidence and started feeling capable. Eventually, I really embraced I am the secret ingredient that is valued by maybe one or two people. My pay is way, way, way low. But it is more than I was making at the bank or the publishing company. So let's just feel lucky to be here. Eventually, I brought my values to it. I said, I am no longer going to attempt to be a bro. And I am darn sure not going to be that female shark who pushes everyone else out. So anytime someone else came in, I tried to be supportive. Keeping in mind, I'm sorry, I was just trying to make a living. I don't paint a hero here. I was trying to make a living. But eventually, as we said before, I found my opportunity. I found a way to distinguish myself in a way that others could see. And I tried to have a pretty good strategy about getting there. Now, I also got a slap in the face. Can I tell the conversation? I had a close friend who was a cultural anthropologist. And she had no idea what I did. So she kept saying, so you fixed computers? No, no, no. You build software? No, no, no. I would try to explain what I did. And it was in an era where data management was just carving itself out of IT. And data governance was a tiny, tiny specialty within that. And she listened to me and said, oh, I finally get it. Data management is the woman's work in IT. So, exactly. Unfortunately, the next day I came back and said, you're not wrong. You're not wrong if you're talking about the status to which it is held. But I can't do anything about it. I'm just going to make it the best I can. But over the next few years, I mean, it really, really stuck with me. And I met other people at these conferences, Danette, others, and I shared that. And I said, let's reframe this. Let's reframe from a cultural anthropologist's perspective. If the IT work is about being the first on the web, the best thing that will do this, and these bros live on fight and flight and competition, what do the rest of us bring to the table? Well, we tend to things. We defend things. We befriend the people who are working on it. We are so good at blending all of the different efforts together. And that's when I realized my specialty. I'm going to start that again because it applies to most of you. My specialty was being a synthesis. If some of the power in organizations occurs in the boxes, the influence and the quality and these other characteristics that we love, that happens in the spaces between. So let's just build on that. Let's just do that. And I unabashedly recruited women because we're trained to do that. You mentioned too growing up, it was illegal for women to have a credit card. And for you to get a job and want a job, even a wanted job, you were considered not well. Here is why I had to be so grateful in those early years to even have this. The year I graduated from high school, women couldn't get credit cards or bank accounts without a man signing for them. Women in the same job were unabashedly offered much less money because after all, you're not ahead of household. There were all of these obstacles that thank goodness don't exist as much and will never in the future be put upon us again. But yeah, so I just wanted to survive and thrive. If I can add in, I bought a house last year and when you buy a house, they make you sign multiple times that you are a single unmarried woman still. And I'm like, okay guys, I get it. I get it that I'm single and unmarried and purchasing a home, which apparently I shouldn't be doing, right? How dare I want to have one. Nobody else has a claim on it. But things like that, that's not a thing that men have to claim or sign off that they're a single unmarried man. So we've gotten further, but there's still so much further to go. But look at this. Look at it. Look at it. Now, Kelly, you and I have talked about Jen's years and how we are learning so much from even the younger generations, the aha moment of, oh, you mean we don't have to put up with that. Right? So can you explain a bit about that and how is it important that we learn and listen from all generations and work together? Yeah. Well, I mean, I was just thinking I could never have started First San Francisco if I didn't have a credit card and all of that stuff. So I mean, it's already like the differences are already. I'm sorry. I forgot to mention I had a husband. Well, anyway, I'm going to say luckily I did it. But anyway, so I think that there's and maybe maybe it's just me, but sometimes there's this sense that your experience is, you know, everybody else has had this experience too. Sorry. And what I learned when I'm talking to younger women, it's like, oh, that's it's not like that anymore. And so these things around toleration or tolerating behavior, and I could tell you some horrifying stories, tolerating behavior is not what it used to be. I will tell you that. And I have never been shy. I have never been someone to not speak up. But there was a point in which like you just kind of let it happen or existed and became the water and figured out, how do I just put that to the side and go around it? And now some of those behaviors, I have a 14-year-old daughter. We have, you know, I think our youngest employee, our, well, our youngest employee happens to be a female. No, our youngest employee's male. But our youngest female employee's maybe 22. And some of these things around just tolerating behavior that would be considered inappropriate, it just never crosses their mind. And I'm like, oh my gosh, in which I'm afraid to tell the stories that I tolerated this like crazy stuff, I'm like, I'm mortified that I did that. But it just doesn't even come up. And I'm like, thank goodness. Like you've really, like it's become an expectation that it doesn't matter, you know, really what your gender is, you're going to behave in a certain way. I'm not saying that we don't need to have these forums because, you know, equal pay for equal work, and like there's still a whole lot of work to do. But that perspective of, you know, you just have to tolerate it because you're female is hopefully, hopefully not what it used to be. Anyway, I'd probably, I agree. I mean, I think I tolerate a lot less than you guys have. And I know, I know that based on the conversations I've had with many women in this room. And it's interesting kind of being on the other side of it, right? Because I'm often branded as like feisty and a fighter. And because I don't tolerate bad behavior. But where have we gotten tolerating it? Those adjectives are very different than they used to once it would have been a fight. Well, I mean, that's right. I love it. But like, where have we gotten tolerating it? We've tolerated it and we're still here. And so obviously it's not working. Tolerating bad behavior doesn't benefit us. Being like kind and polite and letting people take advantage of us doesn't benefit us in any way. And so I'd rather advocate for people and advocate for women and particularly women of color. And I'm happy to take some of the front work if that means that somebody else doesn't have to in the future. And I had somebody say to me a long time ago, I came to a room kind of like this when I was much younger. And heard somebody say they always felt like a token and I've always felt like a token my whole life in pretty much every situation I've been in. And it's like a very pressurizing place to be in because you feel like you do have to be perfect, right? And perfection is not achievable, but it's kind of a pressure put on you. And they said that when you're a token in the room, what you need to figure out is how do you make sure no one else feels like a token ever again entering that room? Like how do you leave the door open so that no one feels like a token ever again? And reframing that perspective for me has really helped. So when I'm in a tough situation, whether professionally or personally, like what am I doing so that no one else ever experiences this situation again? And like how am I making sure that this is removed? There's a lot of phrases about that we carry as we climb. Empowered women, empowered women, there's whatever hashtag you choose to use in this current moment. But that's the idea that I think is different from women older than me, because we have a lot more resources and we know that we deserve better. And we're able to have these candid conversations where like me sitting here and saying something or a panelist saying something like that 20 years ago would have like you guys would have all been shocked. And me saying that now, like I've said that so many times before in public rooms. So I think there is a difference and I'm really glad that we're moving to a more candid conversation so that we know that our experiences of being mistreated are not unique. There are overt things that can be done, which you have alluded to. But there is also background stuff. Now, probably the people here don't know. But over the last 15 years, there is a group of about a dozen of us who have worked actively behind the scenes to change the language that is used to describe data governance activities away from competition and authority and control to establishing decision-wise, working for collaboration, making collaborative decisions, engaging participants. And please, that is never-ending work. So continue it. Oh, absolutely. Indeed, you know, and, you know, and that, Akradi, you know, you and I have had a lot of conversations too about, you know, how do you respond to, you know, these situations and how your attitude is, you know, so important and a lot of your confidence, you know, comes into that role in having confidence. So if you expand a little bit more on that. Yeah, yeah. Every job I've ever had, I felt not qualified for when I got it, except for this current one. God, finally, we're in a place where I have confidence. And so I've seen my confidence build from pretty much nothing to a lot. And I think early on, if you feel like you're lacking some of that confidence, remember that no one knows what they're doing, right? Like, we're on this panel. We're not perfect. We've had to figure things out. We're figuring things out right now. And so remember that you're doing even 10% of something is more than what's being done right now. And so your 10% is sometimes good enough, right? It's not great and it's not perfect, but it's good enough. It's something you're contributing in some way. So remembering that. And then when you get into a state of more confidence and you build that up, sometimes faking it does help you make it, which is interesting. But most of the time, people have imposter syndrome. And how many of you feel like you have imposter syndrome? OK, pretty most hands. I've spoken to CEOs that are running big, large companies that are super successful and I look up to that have imposter syndrome. So to some extent, it never goes away. And recognizing that it never goes away will actually help it go away for you. You're on the cutting edge, whether it's for the entire industry, the world, or in your organization. If you are competent, then you're not doing enough. Yeah, there's a lot of growth that comes from fear. And when you're experiencing change, like you're going to experience fear, most people experience even workplace change experience at the same way they would experience grief, which is interesting. So if you're experiencing some of those negative feelings, about what you're doing, that's a good thing. You shouldn't be the smartest person in the room you're in. So yeah, really reframing how I think about myself has helped with how I present to the world. But then also surrounding myself with people that I know are good advocates of me and other people really helped. So when I'm feeling down, like a conversation with Donet, and that will tell me, like, Akatir being stupid. Not in those words, but basically, right? So surrounding yourself with friends, whether in your industry, outside of your industry, that understand that you are better than you think you are is really helpful and really does help you build up that confidence. So it's a mindset thing, guys. We can overcome that. If you're on TikTok, there's a big sound right now that's going around that says, it's obviously not that hard because boys do it. And it can't be the heart of boys do it, right? And they're confident. And so we can be confident, too. And we do great work. We know what we're doing. And there's actually a statistic from Lean In org, which is Sheryl Sandberg, that says men will apply for a job when they feel like they're, I think it's 40% qualified, and women will apply when they feel like they're 100% qualified. And we have a lot of imposter syndrome, so we're probably 120% qualified, and they're probably like 30% qualified. That's a big gap. And so we just have to make sure that we're ahead of that. You see a job that you don't feel like you're qualified for. Too bad, it's not your job to decide that. They have an HR department, that's literally what they get paid for. So give them some work to do, right? Apply for the job, put in the application, try the thing, it might not work, and that's okay, we'll learn from it. But it might work. And so what's the harm in trying? And so yeah, that's what's really reframed my confidence. And for some of you that have known me a long time, you've probably seen it grow, and that's been really cool to watch and to be a part of. So I would encourage you all to reframe it, and if you need help with that, I will be your pep talk. So give me a call, and I'm happy to do that. Awesome. So I'm gonna open this up to the whole panel here. So what advice would you give to women looking to get into a career in data management and data governance? So Kelly, let's start with you. Yeah. So I think that you can come from any background and get into data work. And because one of the nice things about data work is that it is so broad. And so what I would say is, don't worry about am I trained? Is my education appropriate? But learn enough to be able to map your strengths to the requirements of some of the roles within the data world. And if you need help mapping them, I will volunteer to help you because there's so much work to be done that I never be afraid to do that. And I think picking up on what you were saying about the applying for the job when you're 120% qualified, that is really, really important. And so reaching out for something that you think might not be achievable because you don't have whatever stamp of approval, you don't have a technical background, all of these things. I think there's ways where you can actually synthesize what you do know and demonstrate how that can add value to an organization around data. So that'd be my biggest piece. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, just piggybacking off that. Transferable skills are really important. So even if you don't have skills in this particular field, you have skills. Figure out how to apply those skills and the mapping out is important. But even those of us that have skills in this area, we are still using skills from other areas and applying them. One of my most useful skills in my data governance job is my nonprofit expertise, which is a very odd connection for most people, but nonprofits do change management on a daily basis. That's my whole job as a nonprofit founder, right? And we're doing it with fewer resources. And that's what data governance work is. So yeah, just piggybacking off of that. The transferable skill connection is really important. And there's a lot of great resources out there on how to transfer your skills from one area to another and you can apply those into data work as well. Yeah. And building off that, try to get to know yourself. What feeds you during work and what style of work matters? Like, I have to work for an organization I believe in. Just have to. I am value-driven, so I cut out three quarters of the world and never look back. Also, I think in metaphors, I think in patterns. By the way, my training for data management was becoming a musical, classical musical composer. Trust me, in my head, it's all the same. But for me, I'm literally in any situation, this idea and this one and that pattern and this one and pull it all together and ta-da! Or pull it all together and where was I? But I have always tried to partner with someone who had complementary skills. Danette and I do so much brainstorming together because she is strong in taking a path down a logical conclusion and applying this and applying this and she is indefatigable. It will not stop until we get there. No matter how many times I say squirrel. So, but work in a way that you are comfortable with, build teams and find partners that one plus one plus one is at least five, maybe seven, maybe nine. I think there was, firstly, I hope you all know how much we love Danette. Can I read it? Yeah, I was gonna say fingers. Danette, can you stand up please, say hi. Yeah, thank you. She's been mentioned multiple times and I love that. But yeah, there's been a lot, there was a lot of great talks, great points in Monique's conversation today about mentorship sponsorship. How do you make sure you're talked about in a room that you're not in? So if you should be evaluating the people that you consider mentors, sponsors, leaders around you and are they talking about rooms that you're not in? Like they should be able to prove that to you and if they can't put your time elsewhere, please. Being able to recognize when someone is pretending to be a good leader or a good advocate for you versus when they actually are, I think that's a really important distinction. You know, we talked about like women that don't support other women. Unfortunately, that's still a thing. And being able to recognize when someone is pretending to support you versus when they're actually doing the work. And that's actions, not talk, right? So we wanna focus on actions. But then for yourself, your personal brand is really important but being able to communicate to people in the room what you need is something that women are notoriously bad at. We are so good at helping, but we're not good at asking for help. And so learning how to ask for help. You're good at advocating for others. How do you advocate for yourself? So if that means you have to like switch your mindset into like, oh, I'm advocating for myself because I wanna support my family or because I wanna advocate for these other people and having a higher paying job allows me to do these other things that are better for the community. Do that, make that connection if you need it. And then the other thing I will say is, we are really often thought about as a women's job. And the reason for that is because we are helpful people, right? Data governance and data management is their helpful roles. How can you make this a little more tactical and change that conversation in the rooms that you're in? If that means you need to go get something like a CDMP certification so that you can show that, yeah, this is a helpful field, but I have expertise in it. If that means you need to go to some trainings, you're here, I hope all of you will make a LinkedIn post after this about what you learned during the conversation. Make 12 of them, like they're free. Make as many as you want. LinkedIn's algorithm's weird and people see things at different stages. So I get told all the time that I post too much, I post less than once a month, which I think is interesting. So you should be using those platforms to advocate for yourself and to put your name out there and also sharing expertise, right? How do you take this back to the teams that you're on, to communities that you're in for people that weren't able to be here and how do you kind of give them these tidbits and mentor them as well? You don't have to be an expert to be a mentor, you just have to care. So those are some things that have really helped me in my career and I hope that all of you are thinking about, even if you're not an expert in this area, how you can give back and kind of get more women and more people from diverse nature into this field because that's what's gonna grow it. Any scenario you're in, know who you need to impress and know are they impressed by metrics, by, if so, grab those metrics by credentials, by stories? I once got a data governance gig for a top five bank in the US that was having trouble with their mortgages. Can we guess when that was? Because while we were waiting to go in, I'm talking to the very expensive suit next to me and I said, oh yeah, I cut my teeth on mortgage banking. As a matter of fact, for a while, my nickname was Tildy, Truth and Lending Disclosure. Oh my goodness. I think lowest of the lowest of the lowest task in my department, but he said, so you know how it really works, even without computers. I said, yes, sir, you're not gonna be able to hide anything from me. The job was mine. Know what impresses people. Absolutely. Oh my gosh, so I do wanna thank you all so much for being on this panel. I'm gonna open it up for questions. Does anybody have any questions? Yes, we've got one over here. We've got some mics going around the floor here. Yeah, I was curious, what qualities do you look for in an ally helping women empower women or what's things that we can do in when there's things that we may not be aware of? Yeah, asking that question is the first thing I look for. Oh, good job there. Being able to show that you care and then being able to step in and step up when you're needed. So something that really often happens in rooms is like we're in a meeting and a woman is cut off. Like what are you doing to bring her back into the conversation or women's ideas are very often taken by a man in the room or somebody with more power in the room. And so it could be another woman, right? Taken with somebody with more power. How do you like give them credit again? So that's a big one for me. And then I also look for like, are you talking about me in rooms of opportunities? Like that's my biggest gauge for just life in general. Whether you're a male, female, really anybody in any situation for you to be a strong ally. And that's true for not just supporting women but like supporting really any community and allyship. Like being knowledgeable, being able to step in, being able to use your voice for advocacy because we all have certain powers, right? Like I have certain privileges that I can use and I'm able to. So yeah, what would you guys add? Yeah, I mean, I would absolutely say all of that for sure. And I think truly knowing why you want to help that person. And yes, we're here to uplift women but it's important that you really want to do that and you're not, and it's not charity. So I'm just gonna say it because it needs to take action like Akwari was saying. And it is something that I think you need to be very thoughtful and consider what is it that is unique to you that enables you to help this other person who is also unique and are you able to have hard conversations, right? Because sometimes that's necessary. Are you able to provide direct feedback in a way that they can hear it? So those are just some of the things that I would say is just, you know, make sure that you're really, you know, you're in it for good reasons and that you're really willing to take the time and take the steps. Great question. Danette. My name's Danette McGilvie. I am the Danette, the David McCree. So I appreciate all the compliments but you know it's all back at you and many, many other people in this room that I've learned from. So I'll pose another thank you to Tony and Shannon, Kelly, everybody putting this together. Yeah. There's no way I would be able to do what I do without the support of people like all of you and you might find your next best friend or your next best mentor or your next best mentee at the table with you. So I'm gonna pose a question. I think you guys have kind of talked around it but I'm gonna ask you because I think sometimes as women it's hard for us to just go and I'm really good at this but you've even kind of done that. So I would like each one of you to tell us, I know you have more than one, please tell us what is your superpower? I love it. So whoever wants to start, Gwen, yeah. I see patterns. I see life cycles. I see things that ought to be connected and I am undroundable in trying to connect them. Ah, I love that. Kelly. Oh, God. Honestly, I'm not a, I think one of the things and I was taking those during Monique's presentation, I'm not a very self-reflective person. I don't do that and I probably should do that more often. I think that one of the things that I do well is I help other people see their value and what they're really good at and I'm really, I'm good at encouraging people to take the risks and the steps and there's somebody in this room that works for me who could probably tell me something else. I think there's something else. Brandy. Oh, thank you. That was impressive. Okay, I'm the first new works for Kelly. Yay, me, I'm so lucky. So Kelly has an amazing superpower. No matter what has happened 10 minutes before any given meeting or anything, that it could be cruddy, it could be amazing, every meeting she is completely in that conversation with those people for whatever they need. It could be super tactical, it could be talking about your cats, which is often me, right? And she's right there and knows my cat's names. Like Kelly, that is Kelly's superpower is really every person that she talks to feels seen. I love it. Thank you, Gretchen. I should have just deferred to you. I was really impressed by Gretchen's very loud speaking. But also like we should be doing that for all of our friends, right? You should be telling all the women around you what their superpower is if they can't say it themselves. So thank you, Gretchen, for doing that. I'm a really good intruder and so I'm really good at bringing people in and I'm a very positive person, so that helps putting a positive spin, not like toxic positivity, but a good healthy amount, I'm realistic too. And then being able to really talk to anybody about anything, I feel like I have a very wide range of topics that I'm interested in and that allows me to make relationships quickly, which has been really cool for me my whole life and I've used that for a long time. But if you're like Kelly and bad at coming up with word, I would recommend something like the Strengths Finder. Gallup has something called the Strengths Finder. Myers-Briggs is okay. It's not really great at giving you words that you can talk about. My top five strengths are Includer, Developer, Positivity, Communicator, and Learner, which are all words I can use in a regular conversation, which I really like. So there's a lot of personality tests out there that you can use to help you kind of give you those words if you don't have them already. But what's your superpower? My superpower? What's your superpower? Including things, not sleeping? I don't know. Volunteering for things? I agree with that. I think my superpower is- Getting stuff done. I'm actually not perfect at that. I'm really good at starting things, not the best at finishing things, but I'm good at handing them off when I know that I can't make any more progress. I think my superpower is caring. I care a lot about what I do. I care a lot about the people I talk to. And that works in every area of my life. Oh, I love it. Well, thank you all so much. I'm afraid that is all the time that we have for everybody here. Oh my gosh, you guys are amazing. Thank you for listening to Dataversity Talks, a podcast brought to you by Dataversity. Subscribe to our newsletter for podcast updates and information about our free educational webinars at dataversity.net forward slash subscribe.