 Good evening and welcome everybody to NYC Film Green Office Hours, my name is Shira Gans and I'm from the New York City Mayor's Office of Media and Entertainment. For those of you not familiar with our office, we're the agency and city government that supports all the creative sectors in New York. Those sectors account for 500,000 jobs and over $150 billion in economic activity. So, in addition to that we also permit all on location filming in New York City so perhaps some of you have interacted with our office as well. Today at our office hours is part of our NYC Film Green program. This is a program that recognizes and gives resources to productions engaging and environmentally sound practices so if you're familiar with it, I can put a link in the chat, you can learn about the framework that we've established to help you green your sets, and also some of the resources like today's office hours that can help you to get there. So without further ado, I'm excited for our discussion today about cleaner energy options for your sets, and I'm going to hand it over to Jennifer from Earth Angel to introduce our experts for the day and to get the conversation started. Thanks everyone. Thank you so much share appreciate it and thank you to everybody for joining us for this really important discussion about rethinking power for your sets. I am joined today. Sorry, I'm the director of services for Earth Angel, and I'm joined today by Jenny Kane, a member of the electric department and also a member of I at C local 52. And also, Carrie Coons, who is a producer from her company fire dance media, and also a former gaffer so Carrie is very familiar with new technologies in clean energy she actually physically helped to build many of the portable electric units that you may see on set, and, you know, has done a lot of really pretty amazing innovative stuff with rethinking power for her own films and we'll be able to hear a little bit about that later. We also are joined by Taya Jeanette who is the sustainability manager for Earth Angel, and I see we also have our founder and leader, you'll be Emily O'Brien from Earth Angel with us as well. So thanks and welcome everyone. So, yeah, Ted, do you want to just bring up the your screen real quick and we'll give a little bit more of a background about the New York City film green program for those of you that may be interested in learning more about that program. It is a kind of a certification program I mean not completely officially but it's actually just a tool that has been developed updated to help productions that are shooting in New York City to provide some sort of a guideline in all the different areas that they might want to help reduce their impacts and filmmaking so it addresses everything from zero waste to fuel reduction energy use so all the things that really make up the biggest impacts of film which I'll show you a little bit about in a moment. So if you want to go forward, Taya. Yeah, we have an agenda here. We will just, you know, kind of talk a little bit about the topic not too much because we want to really hear a lot from our speakers about their experiences. And then followed by a Q&A with with Carrie and Jenny, and that will probably end around six o'clock, maybe a little bit after six o'clock, and then that's when we will also open up open it up to office hours which you can have, you know, bring any of your questions about sustainable production doesn't have to be related to energy. And we have, I see a number of our amazing earth angel staff here to try to answer any of those questions. Next slide. Yeah, so what is New York City film green program so sure touched on this a bit you know it's a it's a it's a really voluntary initiative that, you know, encourages all the productions to to try to implement sustainable practices again and all the different departments and, and, you know, dealing with, we deal with so many different kinds of waste and energy use from one department to another so it really kind of goes through and and tries to explain ways to reduce those impacts in a simple way. So, you know, and really just focus focusing on the main impacts of film production. Next slide. So, again, the New York City film green program is a is an offering through the mayor's office of media and entertainment. It's totally voluntary but there's a lot of benefits to doing this you know it really kind of is a really useful tool to help establish green practices on your set, and as well if you kind of meet certain program requirements you can receive NYC film green seal which you can use in your end credits. And really the timeline is pretty straightforward so there's a simple application process which you can find on the NYC film green website, and which you, you know, will submit in prep. And then it will kind of help guide you through what the program requirements are for the different levels of certification. And that's obviously done all through production and then at the end, we ask you to just submit, you know, your, your form and it is reviewed and then if you meet the qualifications then you will receive your seal. Okay, so jumping into our topic for today. So we wanted to talk about power on set. I'm not sure if you guys have had the chance to see this report that was put out in 2021 by the Sustainable Production Alliance, which works very closely with the producers Guild Association green production guide. And what they did what they showed in that report is taking data over the last number of years using their peer tool showing the average emissions greenhouse gas emissions for different formats and for this report they did feature films, as well as television series. So, interestingly, you can see the data here it's, you know, it, the film production as, as, you know, most of us already know has a huge impact right from a carbon impact perspective. And the data that the spa report showed was that temple productions can have an average of 3370 metric tons or 33 metric tons per shooting day. And, you know, large, large films had a carbon footprint of about 1100 metric tons and then medium 769 metric tons while small films had carbon footprints of about 391 metric tons. And this chart actually also shows kind of a breakdown. So what we're kind of mostly going to be focusing on a little bit more today is really that blue area fuel. So, there's all different uses of fuel but if you look at any, you know, any profile of any carbon footprint for production fuel will always be the highest source of greenhouse gas emissions. And for for that. So there's obviously there's fuel that's used for vehicle travel air travels actually kind of calculated separately but what we're focusing on today is the fuel use for powering sets which we will see with fossil fuel powered generators. Here's another kind of breakdown from that report. Again, you can see 48% or about half of the of the greenhouse gas emissions will come from fuels. And then for television series, a little bit different, but still, you know, quite a high impact, but also the same thing that you'll see is is primarily fuel for, and we're mostly for scripted unscripted is a little bit different. You'll see a lot higher impacts from air travel, a little bit less so for fuel impacts. So we can show that later but so that's kind of a little bit of a breakdown of, of, you know, that what we're looking at today, right in terms of impacts of production but primarily really focused on that fuel aspect. And we have today with us. Two amazing experts in the field of powering sets, we have Jenny Kane as I, as I mentioned before and Carrie, and we were just going to kind of, you know, we have some questions prepared. Obviously, if you guys have any questions, please direct your questions to the Q&A section, and we will be addressing those at the end of the discussion here. But yeah, so I just wanted to jump in with Carrie and, and Jenny if you guys wanted to turn your cameras on. We can start in here. Thank you. Welcome. So, I just wanted to ask, you know, from your perspective you guys are working every day on sets powering films. How would you describe the current approach or mindset to powering a set let's just say, for the purpose of this discussion let's say, you know, maybe the bigger sort of productions 10 pools or TV series scripted. We might do it a little differently in Vancouver than New York so Jenny do you want to jump in there. So, New York, unfortunately, we're still very reliant on big generators. And so that means the 1200 amp generators 1000 amp generators that are on many of the trucks. And they're part of the tractor trailer. They pulled the top truck the grip truck may have one the electric truck generally has one that be one in base camp. And then we also have van generators when we're doing for additional location work when you know you've kind of too far away so that will also be a, you know, a diesel fueled 1000 amp generator. So we still unfortunately power a lot by by big generators but we, I think people are beginning to think a little bit more about how to do smaller things with alternative methods. I'm also curious to sort of learn more about this, because we don't have it as much as I think you do on the West Coast. Yeah, I mean here in, we do a power of a lot of stuff, especially with the blockbusters star star track I guess when it was here had 18 generators in one set. And just all around the ring of this big gravel pit, and I don't know, maybe seven or eight of them were actually just powering background tense heating and cooling. So the way that I think of it like what's the, what's the purpose of that what's the, what's the aim of having all of these generators and then there's big long lines and these you know, transformers and things that need to like keep the line signal strong is that in that set. We wanted to have 200 amps of power available. Every 20 to 30 feet throughout the set and hidden to so we're burying cable and they're dropping it down from the from the sides. The idea being no matter where you want to go no matter where you want to shoot no matter what you want to play there the power is right there waiting for you. And there are obviously advantages to that huge advantages to that in a world with infinite capacity to avoid absorb carbon in the atmosphere. What actually happened on the day when we start shooting really we're maybe we're using 200 amps at a time. At the same time all 18 of these generators are running continually, just in case we move from over here to over there right. So the way that I describe that is like running your car all day in case you want to listen to the radio for a bit. Having all of this juice. We also had most of the set was lit with LEDs which didn't require anywhere near the amount of amperage that we were putting out there we got like tons of LEDs for the set and then and then some lights and lifts that are typical big guns. And the way that I that I see set lighting the challenge in set lighting is is going to be primarily to convince directors of photography and directors like the creative team to try fixtures that use a fraction of the energy because still the go to is an 18,000 watt light for daylight and you know 12,000 watt tungsten light for for nighttime street light stuff, you know way far away in a big lift and I'm not going to claim at this point that there's a straight replacement for that type of light in the LED world, but there are definitely other ways to shoot there are other styles of cinematography that maybe don't require, you know, light, bright light on every single square inch of the set. So, one thing that I try to do. When you know consulting with a production or coming out with my own productions is just make sure that right from the beginning to the end of the project, that's a consideration like the the finite ability to to earth atmosphere to absorb carbon is a priority. So I'm going to make that a decision in choosing a director photography I'm going to make that you know even in choosing a project. I'm going to be picking projects where I don't foresee a need for for that huge draw. And then if we can eliminate some of the consumption needs that we're assuming we can start scaling down and using more electric power on set. Anyway, that's that's where we are and where I'd like to see us go. Yeah, for sure. And so, yeah, that's, that's one of the things that we think about, because a lot of these things, they're all, you know, connected and did not not have to have a better word for that but you know so like when we're when we're considering green options we think of it kind of like a package right so we, we want to consider leds but I mean really from from a person that's like setting up power like how much do you really. I mean how much say do you really have in in kind of suggesting what, you know, to go with a green option or not I mean, I, what I, you know, what I think is the case is that's more kind of like the, the decision make, you know, decision of the dp or someone else but how much, how much influence does like you know electrician or gaffer have in that in that situation. The smaller the show is the more say that you have and you know I make that as a gaffer I was, I would make that a priority in my conversations right from the moment they're asking me to come and do the job would be like what what's your do p planning in terms of their you know their lighting style. Are you going to need a generator at all like the first two features I did were small features you know small independent features but we did not have gas or diesel generators at all so we used a combination of house power. That's not true because this was before portable electric had their 2k and 5k units, I did not have those but what I had instead was like the gas version of those little Honda putpets that 2k and 5k or 6k version of that. But, but if I did those projects again I could do them with just just a few vault stacks in the back of the track right. I'm having those kind of having the trust of the producers having a like a good relationship with the dop and also having the kind of like personality where I'm willing to raise these things and challenge. There's a there's a lot of ego in the industry where it's like my creative vision is like this and the only way to achieve this is with these lights that consume thousands of watts of power. And I think that's the element that they're burning that having having being able to say like yeah we could do that or we could do this. That would eliminate all of the cable it would eliminate the generator it would eliminate all these expenses and all these, you know, crew costs frankly if you say you say that in front of the producers the producers will make that call. No rigors. This is great. Yeah. Well I'm curious Jenny as an electrician do you do you have these conversations, you know when you're when you're kind of planning things out and you know how much is our green options really considered. We have some say in how where the generators are placed and how often you actually need a generator so sometimes I'll disagree I think sometimes you have to run more cable, which does require more people, which I have no problem with as a union member I think it's good to keep lots of people employed. Sometimes it's better to use that big generator and run a lot more power and just use that rather than having a bunch of small 7,000 diesel gas or electric gas generators, which we also put out a lot too. So it's, you can do a bit of both. Also more and more people are using LED and which is great so I see that on sets a lot more. Not as you said for the big nights exteriors or. So I think I don't see the generators going away just yet, but I see better use of things like bolt stack, and, and that kind of thing so you could power your base camp or you could power your video village I mean some of the times we're running our generator and it's just really powering video village because everything we have could just plug into the house because it's on LED. You know a DIT you've got video you've got now you either you have heat or you've got air conditioning you have units I mean so you are the bolt stacks are not able to do that yet. So, some of some of what we're powering with the generators is actually support for the production itself. Right. Yeah. That's really an interesting thing that I kind of wanted to do a little bit of a comparison because this is one of the newer ideas in terms of approaching, you know, energy in a different way is really going from like the conventional way that we set up our grid to a more redistributed part or redistributive way and using these bold stacks, possibly for these kind of, you know, areas that require smaller loads. So Carrie I know you've talked about that a lot and thought about that a lot in terms of redistribution, but I think that's something that it seems simple, but it's actually like, for example, you know, a production might rent an EV, you know, for whatever for someone or you know picture car or something, but crew will see it being charged by diesel generator and usually people are like wow, why would we do that if we're you know why would we get an EV just to charge it on this, you know, polluting generator but actually think rethinking it is like you were saying Carrie. Oftentimes diesel generators just sit there all day running, but are not really powering anything so we might as well plug in and and and use that power in some way but maybe you can expand a little bit more and you guys could maybe do now talk a little bit about the benefits as you are saying Jenny of having more, you know, the bigger Jenny is there to power everything versus more of the distributed power that I carry that you talk about sometimes. Sometimes it is up to an electrician or the electric department to say we're not going to run all these generators unless they're actually doing something. So sometimes it does require you have to run more cable, so that you are not letting a 1000 amp generator run, you know, a monitor, because that can happen and so I think that's our responsibility to not let that happen and so if it's a little more work from my department I'm happy to do that because I hate seeing that happen. You know, like you were saying sometimes you just have these big shoots and they want power where they want the power when they want the power and there's not much you can do about it. True. Yeah, there is a there is a like a maximum efficiency. The thing about the diesel generators is they're not very efficient. So the maximum efficiency is when there's about a 7075% load on the generator of power being drawn. So a good Jenny operator will always sort of like aim to achieve that as like as a target and spread it out equally across the phases, you know, in the power. But, you know, as Jenny says sometimes, like if you're doing an exterior day and the sun is doing all the lighting and it's pleasant and you don't need to do much heating or cooling you're, you're going to end up overpowered and sometimes it's just not possible to get your, you know, a circus generator to power your set stuff. And I think that in situations like that. That's where, even if your original plan is to use diesel generators having a few of these vault stacks or especially like now there's towable units coming out that are, you know, 20 kilowatt hours or I think they're aiming for 200 kilowatt hour unit at portable electric I'm not sure if they've achieved that yet but there's 60 kilowatt there's there's a whole bunch of other options that could roll in on a day where the needs are low and replace that outright and if you if you're able to do that each day that you're able to do that up here is saving you hundreds of dollars in fuel costs, which would probably offset the cost of renting the unit. It's really skilled at using it when it's needed. So the beauty of the battery power is it's 100% efficient it's power, it's it's the exact amount of power that you need, where you need it, when you need it. So when I've used it for a distributed power kind of power grid type of thing I did use the 5k and the 2k units, and then like a contained set where we would otherwise have had to have a generator out on the out on the like a block away cable runner through all downtown but then when you get into the location it's very sensitive location so they want to carpet down everywhere there's cable going, the cable has to go everywhere. In a situation like that, the same rigors that put the cable in the generator and then on all the same team that went in there could bring in power to have it where you need it and be powering your, your LED fixtures sky panels and things at the various points where the power points had been needed so I have tried that in an exterior night shoot and managed to get through a whole exterior night shoot with two band loads of vault stacks and nothing else for power. But this was a small sort of a sort of show right so they're aiming for like a television look and the director's aim is to get into the MOW circuit as a director, after years of being a scripty and that was achieved. The look is good, but it's maybe it's maybe not what we're used to so it's like there's darkness in it. You know there's actual darkness that where you can't see anything at all there's not like just less detail over there is just like there's it's film noir right it's like a recovering some of our former styles is going to help us succeed using less power for lighting. Yeah, yeah, that's so interesting I think I actually visited you on that set. Yes, yes you were there we were looking for each other. It was too dark you can see each other. There was two sets there was shooting there on that same night I think that's what happens. Yes. Well so that's that that is interesting because and with a lot of things with sustainable production and in all the different areas, all the different impact areas. What we find is we often will get a much better result and actually see real, you know, decreases in our impact, if we actually are planning more right. So, for waste, we're, you know, we, we think we do a lot of work, Earth Angel with, you know, trying to choose zero waste for all of our productions which involves a huge, you know, strategy for how we're going to do this right in a lot of locations, and you know there's all the different streams and you know what are these vendors do how much is this going to cost is it's going to cost extra. So, but if we're able to kind of work it out with vendors, and you know locations and we've got all the days where we know we're going to have, you know, high background. So we actually can see like very high diversion rates there's there's a measurable impact there. But what about for power, what is, do you guys see any advantage really in thinking about power a little bit more that way like, you know, I think what you guys were both saying is that when you are kind of starting out planning things like a lot of times what you, the job is to just have power and not lose power so you're sort of over budgeting for power just in case. But what is, you know, I know, you know, we've talked a little bit before about how can we change that way of thinking to maybe, you know, actually plan it out a bit more since we know what the loads we will need for all the different areas are. Is it, how possible is it to actually, you know, power for for budget or budget for power sorry. Budgeting for power I actually have like a little slides that I can share. Let's see here, see if this works. There we go. So, oh it's kind of behind all these faces. The, so I, when I did plan for that exterior night shoots, obviously my biggest concern as the gaffer, who had just spent two weeks convincing the producers and the dop and everybody that we could achieve this without renting a generator and laying cable for a day before. I went through basically and talked to every single department head about what they're running on their trucks what they're running on this on the shoot and I talked to special effects and lighting in particular and you know in the dip and I and I put together a spreadsheet that had their like actual power consumption needs which is like a little silver sticker on the back of all their fixtures it says how many watts does this actually use. I put that all into a spreadsheet but not only that I also added the additional factors of how long is this expected to run so if it's a toaster maybe it's 2000 watts or 1500 watts to toast a bunch of bread but it's not going to go all day long. So I don't need to use that all day. So, and also with the intensity we had a lot of sky panels on the show and as a gaffer I don't put them on full poop to start with I put them on around 70% and like, and that gives some flexibility but more light or less light and if it's at 70% and they're like we need a lot more light I bring another one and also at 70% and still you can bring a both down right so the intensity is also a factor. And if it's something a huge with the the new s at 360 is the great big sky panels that almost can compete with an 18k. I've never met a director photographer can stand to have them at 100% are so bright. So like you know those are maybe going to be a two or 3%. So if you take your. The formula here is you got the number you're going to get on the side of your vault stack for example. And of course unfortunately every manufacturer labels their stuff a little bit differently but what I like is a kilowatt hour like the total storage capacity of this unit is this. And then underneath that on in the top bar here is the is the total amount of energy that my production is going to use all day long. And then and then that's, or yeah that's the yeah that's how long your bolt stack is going to last so if you're putting one 1000 watt sky panel on to one 5k bolt stack, it will last you. Five hours, I hope that makes sense anyway you had the other things in there. And my little spreadsheet that I made spits out the spat out the number of bolts tax the number of kilowatt hours I was going to need to acquire and we managed that with a combination of five k's and two k's. Now, of course, at this point the 20 k two of us were not invented yet, they were in development they were invented they just we were working on the prototype, so we didn't have any. And this was only a half day so it did take us to ban, ban loads, but the projections that I came up with we're pretty accurate. And then again, this is a really small show. But you can either like you could scale that up now that there's bigger power packs available. And you can also take just some part of your little show like your splinter unit or your second unit or something that's, you know, they want to shoot something over there is just too far from where your generators are and you can, you can still kind of make a little plan within your bigger plan, using these formulas. Hang on a second. Yeah, so the this is the case study the victim this is the. Look that we we ended up with for the interior exterior we basically these are practicals, we're outside in a park but each of these is a 500 watt street lamp with a five cable stack at the bottom. There they are in the background there and then we had a little balloon over here and a couple of sky panels here and there. Yeah, and the beauty of a bolt stack because you can charge a bolt stack off a bolt stack so when it came to the balloon the balloon was an HMI. And you don't want to turn it off to repatch and then turn it on again because they take time to to cool off before they can re spark. But so we were able to just park another unit next to the unit that was getting low and just tie tie them together daisy chain them together and keep it going all night no problem. And that's what we powered video village sounds that lighting special effects, the lamp posts craft services and a bunch of little stuff all around on this show we didn't have much of a circus we had one. We did have what like one or two of these, you know, combination AD trailer makeup hair type units. In my discussions with transport at the start, we just got them to arrange ones that had their generators on board. And then they ran those and that was a completely separate consideration so we didn't need to worry about that but if we had, and we had a total unit that would have been just fine. And then, yeah, because we use these vault stacks for the whole production. Portable electric gave us a report afterwards based on our consumption from those those units and what we would otherwise have used out of diesel and gas and that amounted to just in one weekend 94 kilograms of carbon emission reductions, which is that were 40 years of fuel which is like, you know, it's more that it's better, you know, still feels good, considering what we would have been doing otherwise. So, yeah, that's basically. Yeah, that's so interesting I'm wondering, Jenny, do you have any thoughts about you know really the practicality and the reality of trying to, you know, think about power this way. Absolutely and on much bigger productions. I mean, what do you see any, you know, do you think that would be doable. Oh, absolutely. Right now that the other problem is they're just not the availability isn't up there, either, and then the price. So those two things are an issue, at least in New York and I'm curious, you know, whether they're just more available on the west coast and they are in New York. But I think I see them right now being really useful for something just like you said for a small second unit for you're doing a little splinter unit you're running down the block and rather than taking a 7000 gas generator down the block and pushing that you would take one of these and do the same thing quieter. The neighborhoods would like it. It's just it's better in so many different ways. For out for exteriors. Yeah, I can see these being extremely useful. But I just don't think they're as available yet, and I could be wrong but and I know some productions, you know, we, they are being used by some productions and they have they'll have a couple of them on the truck. So maybe that's growing and I hope it is. I think I don't think it's exclusive to New York City in terms of availability I do, I do hear that they are somewhat, you know, difficult to get in some places. The nice thing is now that they have different capacities right so Kerry was mentioning the portable electric they kind of started out with these two case but we're not really seeing those anymore and I actually don't think that they continued, I don't think that they're manufacturing the two case anymore I think that's what Mark told me. So typically, the five case, which is what you showed in your slide, Kerry and that those are those may be the ones Jenny that you've worked with in the past those are the ones I've kind of seen mostly. And, you know, in terms of cost, it will vary their competitive from market to market. I do I wonder, Kerry if you have any, you know, insight in terms of cost in regard to the rental versus, you know, the fuel savings the savings on labor for labeling that kind of thing if you have any, you know, experience or information that to share. Yeah, I mean I'm, you know, in my capacity as gaffer I wasn't worried too much worrying too much about budget stuff. So, and also because I was working at portable electric and kind of gathering data for them, all of these units were were at my disposal for this little experiment so I mean, I have done a pitch to consult with the mo w on how to see if we can reduce their diesel generators by one by bringing in electric power solutions. But unfortunately, well I mean what the deal that I worked out is that we could replace one for one one of their diesel generators, you know, plus fuel costs with portable portable electric generators or the bigger ones from NBS, which I think are the 60 kilowatt hour ones for without any additional cost. The only issue was that that the, they weren't willing to consider reducing their consumption and so because they had, you know, and normal stuff going on like the catering truck running the AC in the oven at the same time. And so what's going on, like they're just like no thought put into efficiency because all of their equipment had evolved in an era of just infinite fossil fuel power availability, and if you need more you just get more. We weren't able to go forward with that but if you were able to pair a reduction in consumption with the phasing out of one of the diesel generators in your overall picture. I don't know if you're spending any more money is I suppose what, what I'm trying to say, but you might, I don't know, it's hard to do a correct direct cost comparison because then if you're going from like 18,000 what lights down to LEDs. They're the led version costs more right so to rent. Right. So much depends to on the fluctuating cost of diesel, the picture that I gave them was months and months ago, maybe even a year ago. And I'm sure that now the same picture would have resulted in significant cost savings because their fuel costs are double what they were so it would have saved them money if they could have done it but they wouldn't they weren't willing to change their 2k location heaters for propane heaters even so. So there just wasn't any way we can make it work. We would have needed three basically of the total units to replace their one generator and then. Yeah, right. Some of those things are just not legal in New York City also you can't put propane heater I don't think any longer. Oh, really. Yeah. I think you can correct me but but I thought I fired a fire department ruling. Yeah. Yeah, I mean some of those costs and again not just related to, you know, generators but also to all kinds of other things and where, you know, it looks like it's, I mean, it is technically more to rent an electric vehicle but you look at the cost savings and you're actually saving money so these are the types of things with these technologies that I don't think are always being considered by the decision makers and they just kind of see the price and they are like, No, that's, you know, we can get, you know, the, the regular diesel generator for way less so these again these are these sort of mindset changes that that we are trying to encourage right and in the beginning when we're when we're thinking about how are we going to put this all together so you know, I don't know. I think a lot of times we don't always have the luxury to take that time to really think through, but I think, you know, again like anything else, if we are really piloting these these programs in ways that are very doable and we can see these cost savings we can see the greenhouse gas emissions avoided. You know, these things are very, very compelling to decision makers and and, you know, I think, yeah, we got to talk to our so our partner in New York City is shattered prism. We invited their, their, you know, their CEO to participate in this but he's actually on set. He does stunts on the side which I thought was fun. And so he's he's on set today but yeah shadow prism is our partner for rentals of e generators in New York City for the film industry. I'm not sure if there are any other vendors Jenny do you know of that are renting electric generators. No, there are a couple of smaller companies that were starting up but I don't know how far along they've really, you know, I've seen a couple of demonstrations of things but shattered prism is the one I know best to. I want to say one thing though that one one of the great things about working with Earth Angel when I've been on shows that have Earth Angel is that you you get a breakdown. Month or two months depending how long the job is of how much fuel you've used where where it's all been used. And I think that makes people really sort of a more aware and think about it so then you think okay maybe we could do better next month that we didn't let that generator run all day long powering a monitor. So I think some of it, we also have to just build more awareness about what what we're actually doing and how wasteful, most much of what we do. You know the same way. I know it's a different discussion but the same way when you see the vans just idling for hours and hours and hours I don't know if that happens in California but it happens in New York and it's just maddening, you know but it definitely does not happen in Vancouver. Just kidding. It happens a lot in Vancouver but yeah. But, yeah, no that that that's really great point, Jenny and yeah we'll have to, you know, talk to to Shatter Prism they need to get some more units out there for us. But, but also I've also talked to some production companies that have expressed interest in purchasing them so that they can actually have them available for for their productions that they're working with so that's you know another thing to consider so we'll have to call market portable electric and what about tie ins in New York so I'm not sure how much that occurs again. You know with all this electrification we also really want to consider what our grid makeup is and I know that there's a portion of the New York grid that's still, you know, powered by coal. So it's not as you know, you know, like in some places where you know we're 195% you know hydropower which is renewable. But it, you know, it is basically for sure, a lot better from a carbon standpoint to be tying in so Jenny do you have any experience with with that on any production. Yeah, we tend not to do a lot of tie ins mainly because they're they're kind of dangerous in big buildings skyscrapers you always have the building tie in. It depends what the power situation is sometimes you've got tie ins that are crazy and you wouldn't want to tie into them because it just be too dangerous and you don't know what that power is hospitals you generally often you'll run you'll run a generator because you don't want to do anything to mess up someone else's system. It really depends but we have tie ins are used often. But depending on the situation, but you don't you can't really you wouldn't want to be encouraging say no generators only tie ins because that just that doesn't work for the business because you don't have enough power that you can build a do the lights, and you can plug in your LEDs but you can't do everything that. So even if you tie into a house or building nearby. I think what I've heard sort of talk about more is having electric drops places and maybe that's a California thing to but actually having the way you would have a box and a state on a sound stage, being able to have that kind of places that you could tie into and run cable from there but I would or have the company drop a power drop a box places, but I don't know whether that's even a possibility yet. Yeah, they are doing that in Vancouver so what they are the city is creating film friendly, you know, drops, but we I think we call them tie in so it's not like a building tie in but it's like designed for our C way. We have a three phase cam lock system that we power with their the challenges around that are that, you know, as Jenny says you can't rely on that completely because what if you want to film somewhere where there isn't one right. When it comes to choosing a location, whether or not there's a tie in right there is going to be a pretty much the bottom of anybody's list of priorities but in Vancouver we do have a bunch of locations that we use again and again and again and again. We have a mental hospital. That's getting a few of those and then there's all these circus locations that we use over and over and over again from one show to the next so we can potentially by 2030 Vancouver wants to get rid of diesel generators. All together including food trucks film everything that's super ambitious. Their main method of trying to do this is by adding these access points all around the city. To raise awareness and then adoption and then I think in some cases there was like some incompatibility like they were using the wrong type of C way connector for the type that you get out of the rental house or something like that but I think those kinks will be ironed out and hopefully soon. Yeah. Yeah. No I know it's it's a great program and it's been really supported by everyone here. One way that they are identifying these spots are actually with an app. It's called like a map app I think, and when you are doing your scouting and the locations will put in there. You know where they're going to be shooting how many generators where they are, and it goes on this map so it builds like this this like map of hotspots of the you know where power is being you know really more power is needed. So based on these hotspots on these maps, then they will will, you know make the decisions about building these kiosks for power for the film industry it's pretty it's pretty cool so you know that's something and they're also starting to do that in Toronto as well. Based on that you know, kind of looking at that program and how successful it's been. So, you know, so again, if you're always thinking back to what your impacts are these types of fuel reduction impacts. I mean, even more so than anything that we'll see with like the waste management work that we do. These will, you know, we can show you know from those charts that from the spa report that we showed in the beginning, significant reductions in fuel use and therefore carbon impact. And I think, in general, I tend to see productions focusing a bit more on those just because of that real, you know, identifying that those types of reductions and impacts. So, we have a few more minutes and I just wanted to touch really briefly on kind of this whole mindset and thinking about this because again, any, you know, area of sustainable production requires awareness like you were saying Jenny and education. I've had some conversations I think Carrie were there with you know other gaffers and electricians. And one of the things that I learned is that they like when you are getting license that you are not they, there's not really any discussion about this type of you know thinking this way with green options and wondering, Jenny, if you know in New York is that, you know, is that some, you know, something that they are talking about in either the, you know, the training programs or at the union. Well, more and more, each local is having its own green committee, and which is great so there's a lot more awareness, just in general about how people would like to see more productions work with Earth Angel or, you know, have sustainable practices. You know, from local 52 that the head of our department Rocco Palmieri who I tried to get to come speak here is, you know, very concerned about this. And so he does take it seriously, you know, can he influence absolutely every gap for a DP know but it's on his awareness. You know, we did have a panel, just for the for local 52 is green committee on batteries and and green greener power cleaner power. Small, I think it's growing but I think, you know, the more, you know, the more everyone pays attention, you know, to this with the green, you know, with the green production guide and we a lot of people aren't even aware there's such a thing as a green production guide so I'm always telling people hey, have you seen this and they don't even know about it and I think that's sort of the one of the first steps people should look to. Yeah, yeah definitely. Now I think I've seen a lot of green committees popping up at local as well as like national and even international levels which is super cool and again, I mean for us from you know, our small little Earth Angel, you know work that we do. It literally feels like production to production like that's how we kind of, you know, are trying to push the needle and make a difference. And you know the more you keep saying the same thing. I think the more people will, you know, get the message and start start making these kinds of changes but I think there's so much that could come out of these green green committees. These are all the people that are on the ground doing all the work and, you know, we all care it's just like, you know, what about, you know, we don't always have the decision making power. So, I was just going to turn to, to any questions but wanted to see if you guys wanted to anything else before I go to brief q amp a and we have a few questions here and in the q amp a section. And yeah, if you if anybody out there has any questions, please feel free to, to put those in the q amp a. But just on that note of, you know, kind of decision making we have a question from someone saying, you know, have you ever told a DP that he or she needs to like differently because of the environmental impact, you know, maybe too high for what they want. Like real change and set lighting plans and therefore the power required needs to come from them because most decisions are made to serve the director DP asks. Yes, I have. This is the short answer but that's not my framing like how have you considered the environmental impact of your creative vision is not how I would have that conversation. So the to use. There's a couple of examples but the one they'll use is the same one from this example from the night shoot like I was there as a department head on the location survey. I'd already spoken to the producers I'd already spoken to the dop about just the topic in general of trying to you trying to avoid the use of gas and diesel if we could get away with it. Because this is, you know, again, small right we're not talking about a blockbuster this is a little favorited for a friend. But that, but that that conversation was basically providing an alternative that would achieve the same effect that the dop was aiming for, but with lower consumption. And so in this case he's like let's put a lift over here and in that little bit of 4k like you know this was never going to become a huge show with 18 days and multiple lifts but that was his original plan. And, you know, that would have involved we'd have to bring in a generator we have to get a, you know, get a crew of rigorous delay cable in the day before and all of that stuff would have had to happen so he's like but let's put that over there and a balloon over there and my alternative that I suggested was how about we have a balloon instead of the lift in the 4k. And then in the balloon will have like a hybrid thing that we can plug into two of these bold stacks. And then there's no generator there's no cable there's no nothing, but you're getting essentially the same kind of wash that you were looking for from this 4k. And in that situation he's like yeah that that that is a better idea right I'm getting I'm still getting what I want in terms of a look, but we can eliminate all of this extra spending that you won't see on the screen when we go to show this the film right that's how I frame is like not only. This will get you this a similar look, but it's a different fixture. It's a whole different way of lighting it but it's the same type of light right and that's been in my mind that's a bit of the gaffer's role and that's what I'm bringing to the table. The gaffer is that I know my fixtures, you know pretty much inside and out and then I know the most about the most efficient fixtures because that's where my interest goes and you know and I can tell people fairly accurately what's going to match the tungsten and fixtures that I'm that I'm going to be asking them to reduce their use of so that we can reduce our energy consumption basically. But yeah, definitely would never frame it by going like you know you're not thinking of the environment enough shame on you. That's not really how I do it is still critically important that the dop is happy with the look and that everybody who's on the creative team is achieving the vision that that they're setting out to achieve, but just with less consumption. Yeah, I think it's a conversation that should more and more happen from the very beginning so with the gaffer in pre production so every get every department involved and I know again with Earth Angel when you work with, you know with the production, you do start with them in pre production but that's the time for the gaffer and the look of the film to be discussed and then you can sort of think okay we could do that all of this with LEDs we could you know this this is how we can you know this is what you're going to have on the truck this is how we can arrange this, but that's the time to have the conversation. Yeah, yeah. But I have been lucky to on it in the features that I've been the gaffer of they were like road shows boat shows like really like out in the middle of the wilderness like we were never going to have a generator out there so that was a consideration right from the start in who they chose for a director photography. You know and that person might come with two arm loads full of their own personal led fixtures that we just use for everything right. Yeah. Yeah, maybe that's that's a future office hours like you know with the keys and all these like you know, lighting options that are less intensive. Yeah, and to your point, you know, Jenny is it the earlier that we are able to kind of get signed on with them. Obviously, it's way better because what we try to do again, and not just with energy but we try to have a strategy in place. And our, you know the way that we approach it is. Obviously, we would never tell anybody how to do their jobs, but what we try to say is you know here are some options. Here is the cost. You know, and this is, you know, this is how we, you know, we can help coordinate the strategy. And so we do have this strategy for energy and energy use you know we're always talking about, you know, trying to promote electric generators, and even cleaner fuels because I mean, you know, that's another thing to consider in terms of strategy for reducing impact is and we see this way more in LA because it's more readily available there. Even in Vancouver we don't have a lot of renewable diesel options. And you know so for, for anybody else that might be not totally familiar so renewable diesel is a biodiesel, but it's actually refined even further so that when it burns in the generator it's actually cleaner it's like up to 70% cleaner. And that option but in New York I've looked into this a lot we don't really have that option at the at the moment. I know the city's done some cool stuff with renewable diesel for fleets. But again, you know, with such a with such a presence and then economic impact in the city, you know this is something that could possibly be, you know, an option for for production in New York. You could see solar panels on truck moves as well as being something that might be really effective and particularly because every, every truck in New York has a small generator over running power to that truck, so they can have lights and they can do everything but if each one of those trucks had a couple, you know, could provide their own minimal amount of power. That would be a huge bonus I think. That would be huge and that's a great point to Johnny because we actually work with a bunch of productions again not really in New York but like, say in Atlanta, where all like, they're all the trailers are solar powered. So it's just again it's just this thing with like technology and availability catching up with like all these things that we keep like we talk all about them but then like we call up and like there's nothing available so that's kind of a bummer. Yeah, so let's see I have a couple more questions here. How do you coordinate and plan the swapping out for both stacks on low lower power load days. And what are the logistical considerations for example to pause your rental of a diesel Johnny for a day or two per week, and only rent both stacks for a day or two per week. But it probably wouldn't pan out that way that we're like we're going to only use both stacks this day so we don't need the diesel generator your savings would be in the fuel that you would otherwise be putting into the diesel generator, which you're probably renting weekly anyway on a longer show so turning it off for a day does save you a substantial amount of money. You know, depending on what you're using for your electric power solution. But when it comes to the planning that's a that's the survey thing that's a survey and production meeting thing before you actually show up there to for for your shooting day. You, you look at the big, the big picture and what what parts of that picture you could phase out and put on to electric power so you know the target might be to put enough stuff on electric power to take a whole generator out of the quite out of the situation. For example, you might be able to power your circus with one of the 20k total units I know people who have done it and done it successfully. And it lasted a lot longer than they thought that it would like several days as opposed to like one day and then charge it every night at the studio. I don't know. Yeah, and of course with the weather is probably in New York is what Vancouver is probably even a little more predictable but you just never know whether you're going to need that heating and heating so you probably don't want to leave production without the option of diesel power, you just want to provide them with the option of not turning it on for a day or for the portion for a portion of the day. Yeah, that's that's a good point and also, you know, kind of reminds me because we, you know, we've worked with productions in all different regions, and again these electric solutions and, you know, e generators, electric vehicles may not be as viable in places with extreme weather, like maybe not New York in the dead of winter right so so that's another consideration that we have to make. Another question. Can bold stacks replace on board truck or camper Jennings. Yeah, completely. The only the only issue then is the charging up of it. When are you going to do that because you're not going to have a fuel truck running around that can just keep pouring stuff in there so I think when it comes to pmp trailers you know if you call them the same in New York but where you're like filming out the back of something and you're filming into a car on a trailer. There's always a diesel generator on that truck. Those could be straight out replaced because that's hardly ever a whole day that's you that's usually like an hour or two in a day so once that trailer is coming gone, they can worry about charging up their battery packs. I was also thinking like each work truck, like I know what's inside the bolt stack right it's not very complicated it's a bunch of batteries. I don't want to like divulge too much, you know, information. Like a couple of little tricks that like there's no reason that you couldn't have a bunch of those batteries and some of those old tricks on each work truck, so that they, they can be self sufficient in terms of power and then as Jenny says solar panels on the top right. And then they don't need to be plugged in at all. Even in the winter, I just need to keep the solar panels panels clean. I feel like I strayed off the question so I'm going to. Yes, yes. They're expensive because I've talked to some people who own trailers or boxes, not the not the trail, not the truck, the trailer that drives attractive but they own the box. I think at this point are still very expensive to replace just your 2000 watch generator that you might have in the back of your truck the prop truck or your 3000 or even a 7000 you might pull off your truck, the grip truck for instance if you want tools. And to replace that with the bolt stacks is at this point, really expensive and they won't do it just it wouldn't be worth their while to do it. But if it comes down in price maybe they people will be willing to do that because I think people are interested in doing it, but they, they're too expensive at this point. Yeah, and you can't even use the argument of the lifetime fuel cost savings because it's production that's paying for that so the, yeah, that which budget it's coming from is a challenge as well. So that's always a major consideration and, you know, obviously from like a producer standpoint like that they really have to worry about that right there always like looking over the budget making sure we're on track. And for things like this are not normally written into a budget initially so these are all kind of things, you know, afterthoughts, unfortunately so again, starting to think differently and building these costs in so that when it comes to make the green option we're not, you know, done we've already thought about it we've already put that cost in there we've included that cost we've included considerations for any cost savings in terms of fuel or labor. And, you know, it's easier to do everything if you're really thinking ahead so. And I think we have time for one more question. And that is will there ever be a practical solution around utilizing new car charging stations to charge set trucks. So, I know we have that. I know we are doing that in Vancouver but Jenny is there any do you have you had heard any rumors about that at all. I haven't. You know, and again, it's always supply chain. There aren't even enough electric vehicles to, to the most productions at this point. I haven't heard about them power and starts the trucks always go back to the stage that you know so unless the stage is doing that or, you know I think getting getting the studios and the stages involved is also an important element to this. You know, maybe, you know, Steiner stages for instance had their charging that could charge the batteries as well as the vehicles that would be that would be huge. Yeah, that's that's a really good point Jenny and thanks for bringing that up because studios, and you know what's happening in terms of energy use there is also really important and I don't know, again in New York City, because of the demand of production and I know there's a lot happening there. They kind of come up with these studios that literally do not have house power so they're running them off of generators like just like for the, you know, for the office or anything that goes on, you know, and for the stage. So again, studios really can play a huge part in, you know, reduction in terms of, you know, energy use by, by, you know, improving efficiencies. Again, it comes down to a cause right like, who's going to pay for this you know it's, it's, you know, they're the property owners but really the productions and one really taking advantage of this so is there a way that we can work together to create an infrastructure that will benefit everybody and does, you know, not the the cost is an all fallen one, you know, production or one studio or one, you know, you know, one entity. So, yeah, I think, but I do know that in Vancouver there has been some discussion and working with the utilities companies also on film, the film industry having access to these new fast charging stations. And, you know, with it, not just the access to the chargers but access to parking which is a really big commodity as well. And then, you know, being able to like park in parking lot where they have chargers and that's all include I mean, there's a lot of advantages to think about that so, you know, excellent question and maybe something to think about for the future but we are a little bit over the time. Oh, sorry go ahead. I just want to add like you know the phrasing of the question will there ever be and I would like to like the pace at which the EV technology is evolving and solutions are coming online is really rapid so yes there definitely will be at some point. And I've spoken to people that and more stuff I can't talk about but there's, you know, there are new EV charging solutions coming on board in the not too distant future where any kind of building manager like a studio for example good contract out with another firm that comes in and installs like a whole bank that can charge your whole deal. There might back at the studio. Those might be a couple years away to see them really start to spread around, but we're not always going to be just looking for a gas station with like an EV port, nor like a grocery store to like sneak in there like it doesn't have to be that way we can. If we're all on the same page, at least jurisdictionally and kind of embracing the same solutions we can work together to make sure that we have an integrated system that's as flawless and seamless is the one that we have now that just happens to be the atmosphere. Yes. And I'm a, I'm that note. I did want to say, you know, we are a little bit over the time we want we kind of wanted to open it up now for our office hours where we can ask any kinds of sustainable production questions to we have a number of earth angel staff here I see a couple of our vendor partners here on stage cleaning. Hi Edward. And so I just wanted to, you know, wrap up and say thank you so much for joining us I think it was I learned so much and, you know, lots of really great ideas that you that you both brought up. And, you know, again, I think so much of all of these ideas and implementation of the these ideas again are just rethinking how we are doing things. And so, and not just with power but again you know this this would really make a huge difference in terms of carbon impact so you know I, you know we'll keep we'll keep working on this so thank you so much you're absolutely welcome to stay for the remaining time. And I just wanted to say, thank you so much. And if you want to bring up that one slide. I did put a few resources on here for anybody that wants to check out some more information. We have shattered prism as, as we mentioned as an earth angel partner, renting a generators in New York City, portable electric who actually has, you know, built the vault stacks and are now, you know, they, so they're basically a manufacturer selling the units to, you know, places businesses like shattered prism. And they're like, all over the place like, you know, it's kind of like you, you, you, there's like portable like boltzdeck sightings out there and like in social media I think they were, they were showing this, the last James Bond movie where they actually had the back in the shot and Dan was sitting on it. And they were really proud of that so yeah the portable electric is is is a great option out there and and as Carrie mentioned are now building different, you know, units with different capacities that can do a lot more. They've also built. They have an app that's like a smart app so it can be controlled completely remotely. So that's that's another pretty interesting thing, as well as I encourage everyone to check out the green production guide and and Albert which is kind of the sustainable production initiative out of BAFTA but they in both of those two products have really interesting and useful case studies on not just energy use but also, you know, waste management and and you know, transportation, all kinds of things in there so those are always good guides to to check out as well. All right. So, thank you very much. Yeah, thank you. So, at this point now I'd love to open it up to anyone else. And I just want to, I think the questions you can put questions in the q&a but we're actually open to anything that you had or wanted to ask or discuss or comment on related to sustainable production. So, yeah, we're opening it up to anybody now. I do want to, I did want to mention before other people drop off that the next office hours will be September 14 from 5 to 7pm Eastern time on the zoom format and there will be, you know, a similar registration link that will be sent out by mom. And that one will be producers roundtable, and we will be having a panel of producers that work in New York City to be talking about the kind of decision making that they consider when they're trying to, you know, bring their sets and kind of the challenges of, you know, what that, you know, how that really works because it's, you know, from a, it's always a challenge budget wise, and you really want to make the biggest impact possible. So we're really kind of trying to look at what the costs are, but also how, you know, you know, what kind of carbon impact would that decision have. So these are the kinds of things that we want to kind of explore a bit more with some local New York City producers at the next office hour so that's yeah September 14. So are there any other questions that I may have missed. Yeah, we actually, we have one from our very own ALG in the chat. Okay, sorry. Speaking to other crew electrics DOPs, etc. to try to utilize more efficient alternatives. Do you find people have a general understanding of why it's significant for you. Carbon impacts. Good question. Does anybody want to respond. I would say, sorry. Yeah, go ahead, Jenny. Yeah, I would say people do have an understanding, but not everyone. More awareness needs to come out. And the more it's talked about the more people pay attention. One of the things I find that this is something people focus on because it's so obvious that every set that doesn't recycle bottles and cans. And it's just, it seems like that's like the basic first step of recycling and I know that's not necessarily the most, the one that's most important to producers are the most cost effective or efficient. But that's what crew members see is like this production is not even bothering to recycle cans and water bottles and why do they have water bottles and, and COVID has been a bit of a disaster for that so while people are aware and people really do want to do the right thing. Often it's so frustrating because you don't have the ability and it's comes down often from is their money is the producers behind it or not. And are they going to provide, you know, Earth Angel on the set or not and that's sort of that seems the basic either it's there or it isn't and if it isn't it's basically there's nothing no recycling is done, no waste reduction at all. Yeah, it definitely does, you know, it does it is always a cost consideration honestly like it you know people can have the best intentions but you know if they if they don't have money to do it they can't which is why I really think you know for a lot of, you know, productions that are maybe a bit smaller budget. The New York City film green program is excellent because it really provides a guideline, literally department by department, and with practical things that they can implement and. And so, you know, and it's it's it's more of a kind of doing it yourself type of thing but you know you, you can follow that there's, you know, you come to the office hours you ask all kinds of questions if they you know want to have. You know, more information about what waste management services are doing green stuff in New York City like this is a perfect place to come and and ask, or you know, ask us here so yeah so tell your friends. I would, I would add that I don't see a lot of merit in talking to you know individual crew members or individual teams within your production about like you know why it's important to reduce your consumption and do your bit for the environment, because really the culture is set at the top those those that tone is set at the top, it needs to be the producers that are on board, and all of the department heads that they bring on to the project need to be on board. And within each of those departments like I really do believe that people feel and understand in general that this is a pressing need we need to, we need to do more and we need to do more faster. But when you make it people's like individual responsibility that's when all those sort of like petty grievances are going to start to mount up like why do I have to go find a special garbage for my bottle and all of this. The entire set is just going in the dumpster after the show right. There's the people like you know the the the hypocrisies within the internal inconsistencies of like not doing it as a holistic whole project thing will start to cause people stress and there's enough stress in the industry already. So you set that tone at the top, it's part of the reason I decided to try producing and make it a team thing that we're all going to do this we're all going to do it together and we're going to measure our successes. It's something people can feel active and proud and happy and excited about. And then when you get measurable results at the end of the process. They know what it is that they've all achieved together. And it's a lot more than just like oh yeah I spent four extra hours looking for the right garbage can for this like thing I had in my hand right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah for sure I do think that that you know it very much is kind of a top down like approach in terms of like results and decisions. But what we're also seeing a lot more is a lot more of a directive from the studios. You know, saying like, we want to be like we want all of our shows to be, you know, doing some having some sort of a sustainability strategy. You know, they may even provide some funding in some situations to achieve some of those goals but I think in general across the board, you know, at least any of the bigger studios members of the, you know, sustainable production alliance. They all employ some form of a sustainability initiative for their productions which, you know, sometimes is more welcome on some productions than others but again if you have a producer that, you know, production manager that is really behind it, then you know, they can really, you know, kind of carry out that directive a lot more smoothly. So, but it does require by and I think and it does require everybody to participate at every level, I believe. So, you know, I've seen a lot of times where, you know, we'll have crew members that just are really passionate. And, you know, they'll just start, you know, I mean, kind of not it's not even this is not part of their job but they're like, you know, while looking over the recycling and they're like trying to help find like where they can, you know, bring their materials for reuse and all kinds of things like we see a lot across the board like, you know, people really wanting to, to make a difference. And that, you know, I think it has to that like you're saying Carrie I mean it's not like this or that it's like we got to all do something right now. It's, it's, you know, this is a, this is a big deal, you know, I was just looking at the, the predictions about, you know, this kind of heat, you know, heat belt that's going to, we're going to see, you know, in a couple of decades from now where, you know, we're going to be seeing temperatures over 125 trees I was just in New York last week and I was so hot. I couldn't even breathe practically. But yeah so this is like the new normal, you know, I mean, everywhere we're seeing these extreme weather events and, you know, it takes it's going to take all of us everywhere to be trying to you know, do, do think differently and and act differently. Jenny. Yeah, I think that's very true, very scary. But I think it still comes down to, you know, the studios, they all say they have a green program and the reality is they don't, you know, so or it doesn't function. So they get to say it and maybe they do one little bit and then they get some kind of green, they get to say they were part of something. And when it actually comes down to what happens on film sets or TV sets. It's not there and so I think they need to be held accountable a whole lot more, you know, so Disney needs to be told that, you know, people need to know that Disney, for example, is not really as green as they are. I just have one, one final thought on that and something I always try to bring up and every one of these things that I forgot to do that today is part of the reason I think that we have those are like greenwashing where we're not really doing anything we're just looking to do. And in our industry people are tired like a 12 hour minimum day here I don't know if it's the same in New York, but I've worked multiple weeks that we're like in excess of 80 hours and I've gone for months on five hours of sleep so people are tired and I think when it comes to energy consumption, we need to think about the human energy to that we're consuming, we need to, again, from the top down set a culture where we are, we are allowing people to have enough rest to be able to actually conceive of solutions and implement them. And, you know, and as I don't think I don't see that I don't see that being feasible if we continue with these days and you know longer schedules shorter work days. And in order to get the most out of battery power also, we need to have shorter work days because it's not an infinite amount where we can just top up the generator when we run out we need to plan so that we really are going home after like 10 maybe 11 hours. And you know every day not just something went off the rails because nobody's had enough sleep for six months. So now we're going to work a 20 hour day for the second time this week it just like we need to change that culture. And that's, that's another reason I became get went into production. Yeah, no I love that. That is so great Carrie, it's so true. Yeah, I mean we're kind of like, you know, the old sex we need to be recharge fully. Otherwise we're not going to work very well. So, yeah, no I agree. And that is not that again, that is everybody right that's everybody working on the film set yeah we you know we from, you know we have such a dedicated force of eco PAs that we work with. And, you know, they're tired to like they they are out there just like, you know, warriors. They're on the ground on the work so we are super, you know, lucky to have all these wonderful young people who are you know, let's face it these these are the filmmakers and the crew members of the future so you know I think we're seeing a lot more. You know people that are working with us PAs and stuff that are signing on because literally they just want to do something good for the planet. It's pretty cool. Yeah, so do we have any other questions. We've got a whole we've got some, some experts in the room here so I will you know, love to, to take advantage of their expertise and their knowledge. If not. I just wanted to have a question for you guys. Which whoever from your organization so you said that that when you come into production you do a report of where all the energy is going. Is that is that something you could talk more about like what is the biggest draw because here's something that I haven't really been able to figure out in my own experiments. So it's not as it's probably I don't know if I that may have been the wrong way that I said it. We're not actually doing, you know, looking at the actual like loads, right. Like that's that's kind of their sort of realm but we work with, you know, every department, you know, the rigors and everybody to, to discuss that and and put it out there to make sure that, you know, they should be thinking about this right like we're always like, you know, with, with the tools that we're using. We will be looking at, you know, what we're asking all the questions like, you know, you know, how much led, how many, you know, what percentage of your lighting packages leds, etc, etc. So that kind of, you know, we're kind of asking those questions, and providing some resources, like the list of, you know, all of the applications that are possible with electric generators and to consider what the loads are there's that report that you may have seen the UK with this really great information I think portable electric was a part of that study. But yeah, so we're not doing the actual planning that's that's where you come in to carry. We need you for that. And I just wanted to chime into that. And first of all, Carrie and Jenny, thank you so much for all of this delightful discussion always a pleasure to see you, Jenny. And, you know, all of our guests here who joined us and asked questions been really fantastic. But just to kind of piggyback on to what Jen was saying there Carrie yeah the level of granularity in terms of like power load distribution. We're definitely not at that level, we aim to get to that level. And that would be incredible. But when we like complete these reports for production at the end. We're looking at what we're you know getting all the kilowatt hour readings from all the electricity bills and whatnot so we're able to kind of, at least map out and say, Okay, this facility use more power than this facility and that type of thing. And then also with the fuel breakdowns try to look at okay we use this percentage of diesel this percentage of gasoline this percentage of propane. And of that, what vehicles were responsible for using the most fuel was it Jenny's was it the trucks was it, you know, past fans whatever it was you know so those types of analyses are more in our wheelhouse but we're we're trying to to kind of dig in deeper and you've given us a lot to think about on that front today so thank you. Yeah, definitely. Yeah I don't think yeah I think we're going to continue this discussion with, you know, talking about all the possibilities here and ways to rethink power. And if there were no other questions where we are ending a bit early but, oh, thanks to there are some resources in the chat, and another reminder that this discussion has all been recorded and will be posted on the moans NYC film green web page. Thank you, Mike, mom and sheriff for hosting us today, and we are really looking forward to producers round table for next month, September 14. So thanks again for everybody that that attended and a special thanks to Kerry and to Jenny for joining us today thanks. All right, take care. Thanks everyone. See you next month.