 Okay. Good morning, everyone. Welcome. Christopher, me, Salomi. Thank you for joining in. It's good to have you on this call. We'll break it started. I know other students are not yet here, but hopefully they'll join. So let's let's just begin. Could one of you please lead a prayer? Yes. Yes, sir. We just want to thank you for this beautiful day. We thank you for your promises that we stand upon. We thank you for the word that we are about to learn, Father. We thank you for your beautiful plans that you have for each of us, for which you are preparing us, Father. We bless our teachers. We bless Pastor Nancy. We bless all the students who are here, Father, who are learning, who are seeking your truth and Father, let your truth reign in each of us, Father. That's what we pray. Help us to be wise enough to apply all the words in our life and walk in victory and be blessed in every area of our life, knowing that you are the Lord of our lives and you are in control, Father, of our lives. When we give you control, Lord, Father, lead us and help us to do your will, Father. And Father, in everything we give you glory, honor, and praise for you deserve all the glory, honor, and praise. Bless each one of us and lead each one of us. Let everything be done according to thine wills. In the name of Jesus, our Savior, we ask and pray. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you. Thank you. So, in the last class, we were talking about keeping things in order as far as planting. Once you plant the church, we talked about how the legal things should be in its place, the financial, you know, whatever accounting and things. It has to be in order because all of this will help us, you know, not just to serve spiritually but also, you know, in accordance with the law of the land. So, I was telling us that we must keep proper accounts and then I was just saying that it's important for us to have a separate bank account. Why is this necessary? Because if we don't do that, then what happens is there can be a lot of confusion, okay? So, the money that comes in, if it goes into the pastor's account, you know, and then the accounting is done that way, you know, you would understand, you know, in the income tax return and so many things. So, everything sort of gets mixed up and confusing and it will be a lot wiser of the pastor to actually have a separate account. And also, we talked about how every place has a law and it requires for the registration of the church. So, that is also something one must look into, you know, almost immediately that would help. So, you see whether you can form a trust here in India, I think you cannot register as a church but you can register as a society or a trust. That's what we understand. And you could, as a religious trust, and then you could function under that. There are certain rules that come in because a religious trust does not file income tax. So, you would need to apply for a tax exemption and the government allows that for all religious trust. So, you would need to apply for that. And then that way, when you account for your church activity related, you know, money and all that, you don't have to pay a tax on it. So, these are all the legal aspects. These are all the guidelines given by the government. So, everyone, I know there are people from other countries as well in this course. So, we need to find out what does our law of the land say and accordingly plan the legal aspects, plan the financial aspects. And also, some practical things that we said was try not to be hasty when it comes to spending. It would be good to start off small in that, you know, you may want to look out for a place that is not very expensive in terms of rentals. You could start off there. And so, as you start growing, you would have slightly better income. At that point, you may want to find a larger hall or you may want to buy a better mic system. You may want to, you know, do up the place. So, be wise. Sometimes, what happens because we are so enthusiastic and then we may also say that by faith, you know, I'm doing it by faith. Yeah, it's true. If the Lord leads you and you're very, very keen and clear on it, then there are steps that one can take by faith, but not to get into unavoidable debts. Okay, unfortunately pastors tend to do that sometimes. They just take a huge loan and get into a big crusade or something or, you know, get a huge place and they're not able to pay for it. And there's a lot of pressure as it is ministry can take up a lot of your mental engagement and emotional strength. Now imagine if you have an unmanageable debt also along with taking care of the ministry, it can become very difficult. So these are all very practical things. And we talked about having a budget. If there is a budget, I'm breaking it down so that when, as in when, you know, different ones of us, we are getting into this church planting. We will know how to do these things. So budgeting might mean that, you know, you set aside money for all the church activities that you think are necessary. For example, Sunday services could be one budget head, you may have missions. That can be another budget head. Now, all the other activities, maybe you want to allocate some money for the youth activities. So that could be one budget head. So like that, we have different heads. And in that all the costs that come in, you sort of, you decide, okay, I can only afford to spend so much money for the hall of Sunday service. So we budget those things. But along with budgeting, the expenses, it's also very, very important to plan out the savings. So from the beginning, let's say, I'm just giving an example, let's say our income is 10 rupees. Now, I cannot plan to spend all 10 rupees. I would need to plan to save some amount of money. Maybe I think, okay, let me spend 7 rupees and I will keep 3 rupees. So if we plan that way, we are saving up as we're doing church. And maybe we come to a point in our doing the church that, hey, I have 100 rupees in my savings. So I can now move to a better hall. I'm not under debt when I'm doing that. So these are some practical things for pastors and not to worry about what will others say if I do it in this particular place. So just be led by God. Don't be under pressure to appear large or fancy or anything like that because we are building this work as God is leading us. And surely, no, we know that our God is a God of increase. He will bless us. He will lift us up. He will cause that abundance to come in in the ministry. But Jesus spoke so much about managing money, isn't it? So we cannot waste money or manage it in a very careless way because it puts us in trouble. So if you can manage our expenses and also make provision for savings, that will be a huge help in the ministry. And when it comes to maintaining accounts, here in India, when you are at trust, you have certain obligations. You have to do the accounting, engage an accountant, chartered accountant and then annually they would want you to report. So we have to work on these things and maintain our accounts regularly. So these are our obligations for the not just the government's sake, but even our own understanding. Sometimes what happens, might think that, oh, we are doing spiritual work. Why is all this important? I'm not going to get into this. But also just to encourage all of us, there's a lot of help available. Even if you say rural areas or remote areas, you can find people who can help you do your accounting. You can find people who can guide you on the legal aspects. There are networks, even earlier I shared about a network of lawyers who are ready to help if pastors want knowledge on various matters. So help is available. It's not the question of help. And today, more than ever, we are very well connected. So we can get all the help that we need. But one needs to be determined to do these things and keep everything in order. So legal, financial obligations, there is a list over here. I will just read it out for the benefit of those who are only listening to what I'm speaking today. So apply for a permanent account number, apply for a tax account number. This is once you register your religious trust. Then register under section 12A. This is for IT exemption or income tax exemption from the commissioner and register for professional tax. If applicable, register under the religious places registration. The minutes of the meetings of the trustees must be recorded and filed. The regular statutory audits must be carried out. The necessary taxes must be filed. So we've listed it out but we would also need to check any updated guidelines or rules of the government and you could consult with the lawyer and they will keep us updated on all these matters. So another very practical aspect here is to have things in writing. This is with regard to any fields, for example, property owners. Sometimes people could come up to us and say, okay, why don't you use our place? So initially it all sounds very good. Now they might say, okay, it actually costs 10 rupees but I will give you this place for 2 rupees. And we jump the joy, oh, excellent. This is really suiting our budget. But what happens in the long run is we really never know if the agreement might change for whatever reason. Just imagine with me, the church is running and a lot of people start coming and there's no parking in that area. So people end up parking all over the street and the person who gave us the place is upset about it. Now they might say, okay, you know what from now onwards not 2 rupees, why don't you pay me 6 rupees? And then suddenly you're like, but you said 2 rupees and we made it 6 rupees. You know, so a lot of these, the agreement between people verbally can change over time. I'm not saying it always changes but what if it does? It sars relationships with people. So a good thing we can do is to have all these agreements when it comes to property, when it comes to vendors, just be very professional. If you can have things written out, you have contracts, you have agreements, rental agreement, even till date when we do things, we make sure when you're taking up a place we have a proper rental agreement signed by the parties concerned. So nothing is done in a, okay, we agreed verbally. Let's go ahead with it because it's a little bit of a risk there and it might strain relationships. So as far as possible put everything in written agreements. Don't go purely based on someone's word because situations might change there, word might change. So this is a little bit about how to get organized as a local church. Now I'll give us a few minutes to kind of quickly ask any questions or, you know, have your inputs on this and then we will proceed. We have other chapters. I'm going to try to just share the highlights because we have touched on the coming subjects earlier. You know it's about citywide church and it's about small groups. We've already looked at all that in detail. So I'm just going to look at the highlights and keep going on and hopefully we can finish the portions today. So any questions, any inputs, we talked about the legal and the financial aspects of organizing a church. So yeah, okay, I think when one comes close to planting a church, you probably might look into these things in a more detailed way. But you can always come back. Those of us in India, you can always come back to these pages that we looked at just now and it gives you all the necessary steps for you to, it's like a checklist. So you can tick it off and say, okay, now I've done this, I've done this and it'll be really, really helpful. So even recently, you know, with certain incidents happening across the country, pastors are required. They don't, they don't have a registration. If they don't have the permission of the local authority to run the church, they get into trouble. Okay. And it's unfortunate. Some may not know, they had just been led by God and doing the spiritual work. But when something happens, and the pastor's question, you know, how come you're running this church, who gave you the permission? They don't have an answer. But then it becomes so difficult, even if you engage lawyers and people who can help, they are also unable to do anything because he has a pastor who does not have, you know, any permission, no registration, you know, and now what can one do to get this pastor out? So even these are all the practical things and we can't be ignorant about the legal and the financial aspect. So be aware of these things and you could also share if you come across a pastor who is planting a church, maybe you can recommend this book. You can also tell them, hey, there is a checklist. Why don't you see that you've done all these things, it would be really helpful as you grow your church. So that's about getting organized financially, legally, now coming to organizing of small groups. You know, we have seen how small groups are important. They really help us to live out the the teachings that we have in the church. We could every Sunday we could be listening to sermons, but then when you come to a small group, there will be life to life interact, life to life impact, there will be interaction. We can actually see how to apply whatever we have heard in the Sunday sermon. So smaller groups are very, very helpful. And we've said earlier that there are some churches that have tried because of these small groups. For example, the the church in Seoul, Korea, right, you are the full gospel assembly by David Yamichou. Now the kind of groups that we want to have, it can depend on what that particular pastor prefers. So here are some examples from APC small groups. What is life groups? Life groups were earlier known as cell groups, but you know, cells sounds more like prison. So that's why we changed it to like a lively name of life group. Whereas cell groups understandable, right? Cell, tissue, organs. So the way the body is formed and the smallest unit is cell. So that's what we meant. But still, you know, I think life groups is a lot better and life group is a common term these days. Most churches use life group in comparison to cell groups. So these life groups are places for fellowship, for discipleship. And, you know, one can grow in these in these life groups. Also, there's some call as alpha groups. Alpha groups are more of people. Now in the alpha groups, they're like the initial groups where you may not have all as believers. Maybe there are some seekers, some who are still, you know, yet to make their decision for Christ. But alpha groups are those those starting points where an unbeliever can feel comfortable and ask all their questions and hopefully, you know, they will make their decision for Christ. So the purpose of the alpha group is more winning souls and nurturing the new believers. So these are the two kinds of groups that we have here. Life groups can be based on any pattern that we prefer. You know, the G12 model is what we use here. G12 model was used in Caesar Castellino's church in Colombia. So that became very famous. So the model there was that leader starts a group and the group grows to 12 members. And the moment the group grows to 12 members, they split or they multiply. So it becomes more than 12, you try to start another group with the help of a leader who was prepared in this, you know, original group. And in that way, you know, to kind of start multiplying, you know, it's like that whole, you know, cascade effect, you have lots and lots of life groups, which which will happen as soon as one life group touches 12, they multiply. So something like that. So that was the original intent. But you know, even right now, we are kind of working on the same model, but there are some modifications here and there based on the context of our city and the, you know, the schedule of people in our city and all that, because we can't do it exactly the way it is done in some other city. So the G12 model is what we follow. The pattern of the life group, it's quite simple. So basically, what happens is every life group leader will review the Sunday sermon, the Sunday sermon. And if you all have noticed in our sermon draft, towards the end of the sermon, there is the life group, you know, the life group guide, there you have some questions, you have certain highlighted scriptures and all. So the life group leader, he can use that. He can just use, he or she can use that, lead the group. Typically, it would last for about one hour and a half hours. And it's totally the discretion of the life group leader, whether they want to serve snacks or they want to serve a meal, whatever they are, they can do. You know, sometimes family life groups, they have a meal together. But you know, that may not be possible for, you know, a life group of the youth or some professionals, they might want to meet quickly over tea and then wrap it up. So it's totally up to them. And again, how often would they like to meet? That's up to the discretion of the life group leader. Also, what time? So here, we've seen that people meet, like family life groups, generally their timing is like 7pm and all. But youth life groups also have a timing of 9pm because, you know, they prefer to finish their work and then get together. Sometimes they stay on 9 to 11 and all young people can do that. So it depends on the kind of life group. So we have here based on your ages, we have here based on, you know, it can also be based on interests, people's interests, right? So a group that is, you know, they're very, very interested in the police ministry or interested in something else. So you can also form a group. I remember once, one of our life groups, right now, that life group leader, I mean, he's married and he runs more of a family life group. But initially, like when he wasn't married, college days or something, he used to have a life group of the basketball court. So young people would come, they would all play a game of basketball and just have their group there. So things like that, one can know what works for the people in the church. So you have life groups based on that. What are the responsibilities of a life group leader? They invite new people. There can be people at church, right? You see that they're not connected to a life group. You know, encourage them. Hey, why don't you join the group? And then they keep in touch with the person through the week. Now, once people start coming, then you have some kind of a spiritual oversight through the week, call them up, ask them how they're doing, encourage them in their spiritual walks. So basically, development, spiritual development of the people is the responsibility of the life group leader. And a life group leader, the task is more of caring for the people. So we would say number care. And also sometimes, yeah, sorry, everyone, I got logged off. Yeah, sure. Thank you. I don't know at what point I got logged off. But basically, I was saying, you know, life groups can engage in outreaches, they can engage in evangelism. And it would be over here, we also have a system of reporting. So once the life group is held, a report comes into the pastoral team on what was done in the life group. So it's generally very brief, we discussed about this and this and that. And, you know, if there is something that needs immediate attention, okay, somebody is very sick, or, you know, somebody is having difficulty because of some issue, kind of bring that to the notice of the pastoral team, then the pastoral team can engage, they can pray for that person or reach out to the person. So something like that. The reason why the Sunday sermon is shared is people can have the, you know, something common, you know, for them to discuss and follow. But otherwise, earlier, we used to have anyone like the life group leader can share whatever they like. But, you know, eventually what happens is it becomes very difficult to keep a tab on who's sharing what and, you know, are there questions, what questions people have, how to address those matters. You imagine if there are 20 life groups or 30 life groups, every life group leader is doing their own topic, it becomes very difficult to kind of, you know, guide them and lead them. So this makes it a lot easier. And of course, as always, the flexibility for the life group leader to bring in something which is relevant. For example, if it's a woman's life group, I remember we were discussing about different women in the Bible. So we would quickly finish off the Sunday sermon and, you know, discuss all that. Then we also had additionally, we were discussing about the lives of women in the Bible. So you can have something relevant for your group as well. That way, you know, you're strengthening the actual need of the people. Youth might have something that they really passionately want to talk about. So we could also have another subject. So like you could keep the pastoral team informed and then continue with that. So things like that. Yeah. So the beautiful thing about life groups is that people are able to serve one another. They grow. You know, it's like, if you have successful life groups, then a lot of needs are met almost immediately. Someone's sick. Because of our relationship with those people, we are the first ones to respond. Yes, we can engage other teams in the church and call the pastor and all, but that might take some time. We just step in. You know, if it's a birthday, we wish and it's so beautiful to do life together. You're connected with people and, you know, that sort of, you know, strengthens. And also another advantage is that people grow up faster because they are connected. They are being nurtured in a very individual and a personal way. So that's also something really wonderful. Then multiplication can happen because people are nurtured. They are growing, developing. You have more people through more life groups and that way the entire church can mature, you know, at a faster pace. Now, what are the downsides of having these small groups we've discussed, there is a danger or a risk of clicks of factions. You can have a splinter group. The group grows, but if, let's say, a life group leader or a couple of people in the life group have disagreements with the church, they want to split and become a church on their own. So is that a risk or a danger? Yeah, definitely. Things like that could happen, but it really depends on how, you know, oversight is provided. And also, there can be, remember we talked about the right kind of community. Christian community should be around learning the word and worshipping God and serving God and ministering to people, ministering to God. But if it becomes minus these things, we end up being a social club, you know, just going out for coffee, just going out for movies, but we are a group from the church. But how different are we from people from the world? I'm not saying that a life group should not go out for coffee. Yeah, of course, we can spend time, but I'm saying the main thing should remain the main thing. That's what makes it a life group. So should not become a social club, okay, minus God. So that's also a risk. And we have to train the leaders to maintain that integrity of the life group. And then, of course, there can be arguments, disputes over matters, you know, certain controversies when the leader is sharing on subject, maybe somebody brings up an issue and they're unable to resolve it there because the life group leader does not know all the answers. So these issues might also pop up. But if we have a good mechanism, we can address it. We can also hear when we do our, we have a training for the life group leaders. So when we do the life group leaders training, we kind of encourage them to keep away from, you know, if there's something that's going to cause an argument or a dispute or try not to, you know, bring up those things. And yeah, if there are questions, of course, you know, they could also email others, personal team or somebody else who can actually answer their questions. So things like that, how to help the life group leader navigate smoothly, one needs to plan. So some examples from here, but I'm sure, you know, every church has their own way of doing life groups and small groups, but small groups are really, really essential and they have a huge impact. So any additional thoughts or questions about life group, if you do have, then we can talk about it. Otherwise, we can jump to the next topic here. Yeah, I think we have discussed it earlier. So let's move further. The next subject here, chapter 28 in our notes is about mega church and multi site churches. So mega site mega church is the one that has a population of more than 2000 in a congregation. And we've talked about the benefits of a mega church. Usually it's, it has a large impact. It's noticed. And therefore, it can also have a voice in the city, it can have a voice in the nation. But the challenge of a mega church is the but if we have live groups, even in a mega church, we can address that matter. So mega churches are good in themselves. And, you know, research has shown that mega churches can make a significant difference in the region where they are planted. And mega churches offer, you know, multiple options, service timings to people, language options these days. And people are also able to connect online. So you know, that's, that's a, that's an advantage. And it can bless the lives of many people. So mega churches are good. Nothing wrong with them and every church, if we decide to become a huge church, nothing wrong with it because the great commission is for us to impact the nations of the world and for us to grow. In fact, the other side of it, if we want to remain small and comfortable, then something is wrong, you know, because we are supposed to impact more people if we are believers and we are really disciples of Jesus Christ. So mega churches are actually good. However, you know, recently we've seen that not everybody is able to travel up to the place in a city where the church is planted. So even mega churches, I know of mega churches here in Bangalore who have started new sites, okay, and have started, you know, multiple services at different timings because not everybody is able to come to the, you know, that, that original church location where they used to have the services. So multi site is sort of emerging. Multi site simply means in a, in a city setting where we have satellite campuses, okay. So the satellite campuses is like you have one main, main congregation and then you have people gathering wherever, you know, it's comfortable for them. So here in Bangalore, APC is, you know, you all are aware, we have North, South, East, West along with Central. So the sermon that goes on is the same. So it's like the whole church is being pastored on the same subject, okay. So the same sermon is start. Now many churches in the West, I'm sure you're all aware that the sermon is live streamed, okay. And the multi site churches, the satellite churches will live stream. So what is this church elevation? You know, elevation is a good example of satellite campuses. They have that and you know, they, they would have worship in their location or sometimes even the worship is, is live stream. So everything is happening. But people are gathering in these, in these other campuses, okay. But they put a pastor in charge who can oversee the, the other aspects like member care, life groups, you know, different things that concern the people who attend that campus. But Sunday service as such, the teaching as such happens in the main location and they have a really like a splendid media team that does, you know, a wonderful capture of the entire service and it is live streamed. And you know, people are blessed by it. So a lot of churches have this going on right now. But here at APC, we kind of wanted like a physical pastor to do the sermon. Another reason being that, you know, it gives opportunity for more people to grow when, when there are people on site, they are doing the worship, they are doing the, they are doing the, you know, preaching of the sermon and all the other activities, because there are more opportunities, more people step in, they volunteer, they grow. So with that understanding, we are not live streaming, but you know, in the multi site model, we, we engage volunteers. And it really, you know, sort of, it, it, it has worked very well. And a lot of people can grow through this. So there is some details are provided here about the multi site locations and the teams at the multi site locations, it's essentially the same. Okay. So essentially the same teams, it's almost like, you know, it's like that, of course, people are different. Every church has its own flavor. And you would know if you attended a, you know, a north church and a south church and a central, you'll be like, wow, they're quite different because of the people who make up the congregation. But when it comes to the, the structure, the processes, they're almost the same. So you would have the same format. You go in for a pre service prayer. We have that in all the locations in central, I know, currently, we haven't started the pre service prayer, but generally, you know, we have the pre service prayer and then the, you know, service and it's almost the same, like the announcements. When you go in for an APC service, you know, like, you know, what to expect in terms of the format, the kind of volunteer teams that are there and all of that. So that's how it is planned. Over and above this, over and above this, you know, there are all the other ministries, the weekend schools, the Bible college, kids conference, youth camp, church camp, and you know, there are advertisements. So people from the locations can actually plug in to more than just the Sunday services and the life groups. So in this way, you know, people can be nurtured, they can be strengthened, developed. And yes, there are associate pastors in charge for each location. The spiritual ministry mainly of each location is their responsibility. As far as APC is concerned, our financial, you know, the way we handle the finances is central. So when the money comes in, offerings and all, now we have a method like we have offering teams in every location. And there's a way in which, you know, it is, it is collected and sent to one person in charge in the office who makes sure we have a, like, we have a time, you know, like, I think it's Monday only, almost immediately, the money goes in, everything is total, then we have a method like you have to put it into the bank. So we maintain the accounting in a very proper way from all locations. So centrally, we kind of handle the money in this way. So I'm just sharing it in detail so that, you know, anyone who's interested, you kind of know how to actually go about planning multi site churches, if you would like to. Okay. And of course, you know, other ministries when it comes to missions and all everything is central, we announce it. And then people sign up, people can sign up from all the locations. But we have one person centrally who coordinates things. So, you know, when people go out on mission strips, you would have somebody from North, South, they're everywhere. But they're all, you know, prepped for it in the same way. And they all, you know, likely they have a similar mindset because they're coming from the APC setup, which is common across all locations. So that's how the multi site locations here are managed. So I just pause in case you have any comments regarding multi site churches, mega churches, or if we don't, then we will proceed. Okay. I think lots of assignments. So seems like people are all busy thinking about your assignments. And I do understand that. Okay, Abraham has a question, please, how about the needs of the small church is everything provided from the main church? Okay, good question. Yes, Abraham. So that's how we work. We communicated to the office. And then, you know, we have a and then the office kind of coordinates and addresses the issue. So that's how we do it. Yeah, does that answer your question? Yes, my, you know, I grew up in a small church, where we had the same experience, we have to send all the offerings to the main church. But then of the day, when we need a venue, we need to buy instrument, the things we needed an extra money from the people. So it was very stressful for our pastor. So like, these are small churches, they don't have that much faith to give. And the offering that is in is sent directly to the head office. And there is no support from the head office, except the messages they give us and the leaders training will go. But when it comes to buy instrument, I mean, the equipment, everything has to be handed by the pastor himself. So it was very, so I just want to know that if maybe the main comes in, maybe like they help you with the venue, there's something they come to check on, you don't have this, let's help you. But if they leave everything to the small church, then it requires so much faith. Yeah, that is what I say. Yes, yes, Abraham, I do understand, you know, that that can be very, very challenging. But here, thankfully, everything is sent to the to the main church. But also from the main church, we have, you know, regular support. So if it is the venue, you know, it's paid for instruments, the basic setup, it's paid for and anything, you know, over and above, if you're asking for something that the other locations don't have, we really need it for our location, we just have to justify it as a present the need. And if it is, you know, understood that, yeah, this is a legitimate need, we have to spend towards it. Yes, even that is granted. So that way, the process here is quite simple. We don't really have to, you know, struggle to get any support. And same thing for events, we kind of plan our events. In fact, we plan in the beginning of the year, we kind of plan, you know, what we're going to do for our locations. And then even we kind of have an idea, okay, this event, it will take all these resources. This kind of cost will go into it. And so, you know, approvals also come in early. And so there's really no problem because we have a process that we follow. But what you're saying, I think the process needs to be improved Abraham, like if that pastor can have a conversation with the main pastor and then, you know, set up some course of action that makes things easy, I think that will be helpful. Okay, Pastor, thank you so much. Yeah, yeah, sure. Yes, thank you. Good question. Sorry, Pastor, just want to ask Abraham. Yes, please. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, Abraham, you said you got your pastor by the church and you sent all the offering to the many branch. How do you help your pastor? How do you, how the pastors are state? Well, in our issue then, the pastor was just surviving on his own. Yeah, and so it was a work of faith. So he was just, it was like starting that branch was also from another small church. You know what I mean? So the pastor of that church said, okay, since you are having a self-group here in this district, I want to help you. So the pastor, that is the immediate pastor was able to give this, our young pastor, a venue that he left everything for him, how to manage everything, everything was by him. But the offering was not going to the immediate pastor, it was going to the main branch. I don't know if what I'm saying really makes sense because like we have the main branch and yet we have a sub branch and then we have the last, I don't know how to say it, the last church. So let's say we were paid from the main church. So in other words, if we had issues, we were supposed to submit to the, our sub-church, then from the sub-church, they can take it to the main branch. But when it comes to the offering, because we have the account already, we have to go to the main church and then send the report there. But when it comes to issues of maybe finances or something, you cannot go directly to the main church, you have to go to the sub-church and we're receiving some support from the sub-church. But I don't know the day that support was not also coming in. So our pastor has to survive. I mean, it was not easy. It was not easy. It was not easy at all. I don't know whether what I'm saying really makes sense pastor. Okay, it's making sense for me. I think it's hard to do. It's hard for a pastor in such situation. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, this really happened. I mean, I was part, you know, I was very close to the pastor. So I knew everything that was happening. It was tough. Our pastor, you know, find it easy at all. Yeah, yeah, that's that's tough, Abraham. So at least I think like the parent organization can ensure salary or some people call it support, which is sent to the pastor or the main overseer of the branch. So at least, you know, like their survival, because obviously, you know, people have families, they have to take care of their own personal expenses. So that is managed. And then when it comes to the church expenses, the way we said, you know, some support, maybe a rental payment or, I don't know, something else, whatever you need, like the snacks or your regular costs of off the Sunday services, there must be some provision given to the local churches, because otherwise, it's not fair unless, you know, one has decided that, yeah, I mean, just think about this, if that person is a full time minister, and this is all what he does, all the income is given to the main branch, then where is the additional income for his expenses, or his family expenses, and the church related expenses, you know, he'll have to find another job. But that way, what's happening is, we are actually making it difficult for that minister to serve with all the available time, energy and resources, you know, that person's not able to commit, because now he's also stressed about surviving. So, yeah, that sounds very tough. Yes, but the first time, he even got to a point that just that we knew our pastor realized that he loved God, so most of the things did not really, because he will come to the public and he says something like, so sit your pastor, you know, so you realize that the pressure of money became a problem. I mean, he will instead of maybe giving it time and offering to say, so sit your pastor, that was almost part of his preaching almost every Sunday. And then you realize that it even stepped down to, I mean, forcing people to give to him. But just that by God's grace, we understood where the error was from, so we'd not really blame him. But some did not understand, so most of them must live in all those things, but it was really challenging. I mean, the pastor was dedicated to the ministry, he didn't have any extra job. So he was just living by faith and were giving the money as offerings to the head church, so he will just come to you, you know what I mean, maybe so see it. And then he didn't even come with offering, we have to give partnership and all those things. And yet the pastor, the money was not going to the pastor, so the pastor has to devise means, you know, to say, okay, now so sit your pastor, don't so to the church, so to me, that one, so it really affected his, someone, we realize that no, this is not good. But by God's grace, we've been able to stand together and I think he's still doing well, even though I'm not there, but he's still doing well, yeah, still doing very well. Wow. Yeah, that's a very different situation that yeah, thanks for sharing Abraham. There's a question here, Christopher's will quickly address this and then we will take a break. How does it work in a network of churches like Assemblies of God? Okay, so Christopher, this is what I've heard about Assemblies of God. I think in order to belong to the Assemblies of God, one needs to pay that organization a fee. So if I pay, and then I become a member of Assemblies of God, then I can use the name, so I can be whatever, if I want to call myself Joy Assemblies of God, Bangalore. I can become a Joy Assemblies of God, Bangalore. But I think the finances are the responsibility of the local church. So the income that comes in, I manage. I have my trust, everything. So I don't really have to give it to the main office. This is my understanding of the process. Anybody here from Assemblies of God, would you know? Yeah, this is what I have learned. And that's how I think it works, Christopher. Yeah, sure. All right, so let's go for a break class. Let's... Oh, okay. Shri Kumar is saying they support the pastors also. But Shri Kumar, would you know if they support all pastors? I don't think so. So the pastors who are in need actually, especially the pastors who are in need, not the megachurches. So the pastors who are really in need like the small churches where they are struggling. So what I heard is that they also help them to set up the church. And also to set up a church, they need a minimum number of people to start. And yes, absolutely, they have some legal formalities and all. So after that, like, initially they support the pastors also to work to grow the church. So as the church grows, I don't know that whether they will pay the salaries or not. But yeah, there is a initially they used to do it. That is something they were they were working in the past. But at this point of time, I don't know how it is working. But yeah, as per my knowledge, it is like that only. They support the pastors and also they help to set up the church, whatever instruments and all. Initially, they will do it. So yeah, that was their way of working in the past. Thank you, pastor. Okay. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Shri Kumar for sharing that information. I think that's right. Yeah, even I've heard some pastors in the North, they've told me that for a couple of years, Assemblies of God was supporting them. So I think they they help them launch if they are a small church, and they support them for a while. And then the expectation is that they'll become self sufficient. And then the support is sort of cut off. So yeah, I think that also is there. All right. Okay, fine class, let's let's go for a break. We'll come back at 10 or five and continue with the rest of the chapters and hopefully we can complete today. Thank you.