 And we'll go once again to the breakfast on Plastivia Africa at 8 a.m. And of course, we're going straight into our first major conversation for today. We're going to be speaking on the NSAS protest one year after a memorial that has started since the first of October. Of course, we've also been seeing the events in the build-up to today. There's also conversations that we'll be having concerning the panel of inquiry that was set up across states in the country. And of course, you know, the conversations concerning why there is that many police personnel currently stationed at the Lekitogui. We're speaking this morning with the lead counsel to the NSAS protestors, Adishino Gunlana. Thank you very much. Good morning to you, sir. Good morning, sir. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Thanks for joining us. So I want us to start with, before we get into talking about the panel, let's first of all start with what it feels like seeing, because I've seen a lot of pictures and videos of police personnel headed towards the toll gate, police personnel stationed at the toll gate, water cannons and whatnot this morning. So let's get your reactions to that. What that really tells you and what picture that paints for you? Well, thank you so much. I think the reality is that the police have lent very little. It's an unnecessary show of bravura. It's quite unnecessary. It's even unintelligent. I'm not just running them down or being salty, but it's the truth. If you are intelligent, that means you are reasonable, that means you are logical, that means you are properly evaluating facts and acting appropriately. Why do you deploy what you call policemen, scores upon scores and advance and not what they told the gate? Why? In fact, they are the one creating tension. Like you said, we are marking it today since October 1. Has there been violence? No, nothing. In fact, why it is unnecessary? Is there an end source protest now? No. The reasons for the protest last year and even three years before, they are not existing now. What these gentlemen, protesters and ladies are saying is that we want to commemorate a month. That's all. So what's the basis? And what you will expect from any informed and reasonable police force or security chief is to even have gained the convenience of these youths over the past 12 months. And like the past three weeks, we'll have been interacting with them. We'll have been sitting on the same podium. We are your friends. Maybe that was misunderstanding and all that kind of a thing. And gentlemen, what you are saying is that you may wish to visit anywhere, but don't impede traffic. Don't disturb people from going to their local business. Usually you want to place flowers and everything. Yes. Occasionally, we inconvenience ourselves and check service on Sunday, but everybody understands and is not going to last forever and that kind of a thing. And then there could be a setback. There could be a problem. But it's the way you now operate intelligently, the dynamics. You can even become very good friends. You know, there are some people you really don't like and there's a conflict. But if both of you are reasonable, you turn it around. And we get to say, oh, okay, so this is how they saw it. And they themselves say, oh, so this is how we've been young before. It's understandable. Young people are always idealistic. They think they can get it one day and that kind of a thing. And so that's what I respect. An intelligent, informed police force. Who would the name force? How can you actually be a force? Nigerian police is enough. Who would have done? And you know what they are missing it and have been seeing it as an axiom for years. You see, the strength of the police is not in the gargetry. It's not in the gargetry. It's not in the weapons. The strength of the police is intelligence. And that will get the intelligence cooperation of the people. Once you get the cooperation of the people, everything becomes easy. When people cooperate with you and you are law enforcing agents, it becomes easy that the one who whispered to you, ah, this is happening here. It's just like in any organization, when the leader is loved. I mean, life is easier for him. The same thing with parents, even in our homes. So what we are having here is that you now deploy people there so that it becomes even egoistic and chauvinistic and very, very backward and primitive, unnecessary. Young people will always be young people. If you go to universities that are not restive, you see that, go and look at the administration. These are either the student affairs department or the branches close to the students. You relate with them. You go to their hostel. You want to listen to them. You are not going to assume that because somebody is wearing a jeans and is doing his hand like this. That means he is unreasonable. And so we must deal with him. You want to understand him. What is he talking about? And you see people have merits. Was there no police brutality? There was. Was there no excessive? In fact, we have been vindicated in that at the panel. All these are words that we are giving. It is not in respect of looking like he is shooting. In fact, this quantum of petitions that succeeded was in excess of 80%. Go ahead and talk about the panel and how far we have come with the panel. A lot of people have described it as a failed effort at healing any of the wounds and giving justice to those who are affected by police brutality in the last couple of years. I remember, like you mentioned, it started in 2017. The first seeming protest against police brutality started in 2017. In response to the events on October 20th last year, the government then went ahead to set up those panels. Share your thoughts with us on that one. How successful would you say they have been? Thank you so much. I would like to say first of all that I am one, two-lead counsel. I am one for a part. The other lead counsel is Mr. Lee with different secrecy and for the other group of protesters. That's one. Then two, I will speak very competently on the ones that are legal. Probably that's the largest and the busiest panel. If somebody says that panel has not achieved anything in respect of redressing the injuries and all that or the aggrieved feelings, injured feelings, I do respect, disagree with the person. I was there. You see, the panel did something. The suspended strict adherence to the law of evidence. They insisted that we are in fact finding a panel who are not a regular court and that gives latitude for information to come in. And under the leadership of the justice, there is a court. Except somebody who is extremely malicious. There's no way you can say you are not giving free hands to present your case to the best of your ability or to the ability of your lawyers. That's one. Then two, the evaluation of the facts are correct. Whether it was the legal state government now who now give the money or whether federal government, I should like to say that this was a good gesture. No money actually is enough for life. I mean, you can't say because you give a billionaire you should replace the life of my daughter or something. But you know the symbolism. It's almost novel. Even when you go to the courts generally, you have a problem. If it's criminal action, you hardly get compensated. The assailant may get locked up and all that. Then two, if it was civil actions like fundamental human rights, it's like in dreamland. You get the money in theory, the award in theory, but in practice getting the police to pay is like passing an elephant, not a camel through a needle. So, but where you have an institution here, where hours are made and promptly paid, show you understand. And maybe, probably should have added to it that the police should issue apology. But it's a start. And I think many of the people who came, I wouldn't want to call them beneficiaries. Many of them who came appeared not dissatisfied. I'm not saying they are excited or very happy, but at least it's better than nothing. Especially those who are injured people, their eyes, their legs and everything and you are given 7.5 million, 5 million and it will help to have surgery and all that. And so it's not full, but it's better. Okay, but let's also look at other cases. For instance, the panel has actually rounded up. And in some cases like course river stage, for instance, there's no recommendation. So what should be the next step? What should be the next thing? Well, one thing is this as a lawyer. One is strange to comment on facts as properly evaluated. I should think the course river panel is also added by a judge, a retired judge or something. And I think, ordinarily, except where they do not find merit, it's possible that people do not prove their case properly. Because the case is thrown out too. Before this panel, there are cases rejected that no, it's not proved. It's not a cash cow, it's not a restaurant where you just give money. You need to prove your case. So it's not that when you come before a panel, at least you must establish your case so that somebody can defend it. But since I do not know why the panel arrived at that conclusion, I will not, I'm a bit surprised that there's no single recommendation, I'm not a lawyer. But in that particular case, let's just even stay, I understand the fact that you're trying to be safe, you're trying to stay. No, professional, not just safe, professional. But in a case like that, let's assume that that's true because it is true. What should be the next thing? What should be done? Because if you have, because if these persons are not able to say, yeah, there are cases where they would throw it out because they're not able to prove, there are no facts to all of that. So what should be done? Because I'm still sure that people are still grieved from all of this brutality or harassment that they have gone through. Let me try to use something. Please. We should always be fair to all sides. And that's what I try to stress at the panel. I would say fidelity or felicity. In fact, there are cases that are applied, even under the answers that should be drawn. I informed the panel that I had discovered in the course of my work that there were no victims of the answers protest that happened at Lechion 20. Myself. I told them. Were there victims of all the cases? But all that things were not, were not, you know, there's a proverb that says that you learn more the art of presenting your case than learning how to fight. Because all fights will end at resolution. If only you know how to fight, but you don't know how to present your case and you have to give you a window of opportunity. It's a different thing if the accusation is that the panel was on fear, what they call fear hearing or did not evaluate the facts properly. I mean, are we very strong on them. What if it's just a wishy-washy case? Maybe these people didn't engage the lawyers or maybe they didn't give the lawyers their fight. It was a matter I was doing before this panel. It was to my own shock it was that very money in defying the case that the client, I don't know why he secreted himself, he now brought up the x-ray. I was shocked. I didn't, we have had such cases, they didn't tell me, no people are funny. So what I would advise those kind of people even did, you can always re-evaluate your cases and your situation, even you are sure that you are actually injured and you're not lying and you're not exaggerating. You don't think about many people is that they come with sub-stories and exaggerate. So if you know you are very sure of your situation, go back to drum-butt and go to the regular court. Let's talk about in the time that you of course were part of the panel, what for you was the most shocking revelation or the most shocking thing that you learned or that you heard and this of course covers the 9th of October 2020, the presence of soldiers, reports that have of course the legacy government has continued to say false or exaggerated reports of killings and some of all of that. What shocked you the most? Nothing. That's the truth. Nothing shocked me because I know where we are coming from. But if it's not the parties that were cancelled for our opponents, I spectate some higher degree of felicity you know that the way we are trained we are supposed to put first the interest of justice first, then the second the dignity of the court. The other one is about clients supposed to be but it will appear that there are some side that wants to win at all cost and then the one that I find interesting or maybe shocking, not the military, the military turned to be covered they brought a general who was not an eyewitness the panel has them to bring the people that were there who brought in the troops they said if you bring general Umata who came to stop the carnage, at least to intervene to put a stop to it. But it didn't come to you. Even general Ndagi who is representative of the military on the security council didn't come and the other thing that was shocking and pervasive was that in the security council of Lagos state which included the governor the chief of staff the speaker, the secretary to the government of Lagos state the commissioner of police the DSS nobody came by Lagos state government sent in the head of civil service Mr. Akim what's his name now Murio Kula that was a civil servant he's not even the chief of staff he's not political he's not a security person so you are the chief of staff Kukum because he's a member of security council what do you call this person the secretary to government Kukum if you say the governor is too big constitutionally shielded these people didn't come another thing that I find amusing was the the LCC video even we as laymen we presented and we demonstrated before the panel that the uneven space of the we call it oscillation the rotation or the panel was uneven and you have came that this is an automatic thing it is automatic set you cannot have 50 seconds rotating now suddenly it's not become for 5 seconds of 3 minutes and then the forensic expert who examined it confirmed it in fact he said LCC has questions to answer and then another one that I find interesting is the police at least the military came and said we were at the end of the day we were there and said we were there because the governor I mean he saw the reality of what was going on that the police had no capacity again and invited that they were surprised that the governor would not be now this kind of a thing and then they said we came in with blank ammunition but admitted on the cross examination that they also came with a backup of live bullets now for the police the most and that's why I said I wonder at them because the scene officers these are educated educated people how can you come to the panel to say that on the 28th and on the 21st you were not at the at all and not only that that you were actually all of you the police station that has the jurisdiction all of you were in your station defending your station against being burnt and all that why do you do not know that story cannot hold government lawyer maybe innocently now has them present their arms diaries each station has it and everything and I only need to scrutinize and I found out and I pointed out in our address written address to the to the panel go to the 28th of October after about 33 policemen who were issued arms on that day only 12 or 13 stations that duty by the diaries all the others were posted out and included patrol patrol and this the DPR came to confidently tell the panel that all of us all of us were in our station the same time the 21st he claimed that the fact when I put the question to him so when did the military arrive I don't know whatever they did there I said so when did you get to know the next day in the evening through social media that's what a police chief was saying before the panel but the arms diaries again show on the 20th he said they didn't leave the arms diaries shows that on the 21st again only about 30 or 15 policemen were stationed at the diaries but their own hands all the others were posted out and also on patrols and we had given evidence through our witnesses not one, not two different ones that policemen wearing morphete were identified shooting people and our reports and I think one of your sisters print me that in premium times something did a big give a big story of that part of it we turned that before the panel so these are the things that if you ask me I won't say shock me but amuse me sadly because they are unnecessary this kind of a panel also supposed to be a kind of a truth a truth panel you know people do make mistakes people do make errors you know that in the oldest parents of these people who gave birth to people like me they believed that actually the child is their property they can dis simply you anyhow they can beat you anyhow and within the culture you can see call your children apologize I was sorry what I did to your mother when I was young I was drunk that I was not a believer we are supposed to this sense it does not mean you are perfect this sense is to admit error and like the gentleman of the cross those who are familiar with the story of the bible the gentleman of the right says we are entitled to this punishment that's a decent man and we did it this one is not Bola this one is not Jew this one is not Gentile the other man was being typically human he said if you are indeed decent you say save us we must be decent we must be decent we must be reasonable and decent to say all not to it a whole country that apologizes in Japan some people say we drop the bomb in Japan we own up do you think that with all of the facts and all of the evidences like you have rightly mentioned do you think there would be any sort of arrest or discipline prosecution afterwards we expect that we expect that part of their responsibility when you overhaul the situation like this look at this situation again that we noticed given the evidence given by the military that means we basically came to say that they were there at 6.45 not knowing that the coffee was to start by 9 that's huge you will be said as a supplementary force to help internet security and in fact you are a major stakeholder because the situation is like as if law is not as broken down so as at the time whether you are shooting like bullet whether you are shooting blank bullet your presence there was actually unlawful because you could not be called out to enforce a law that is operation and you could only be forced by 9 then the police said we were not there from the 14th we have left that place we don't even know what was happening when you begin to know is there a breakdown in communication that's awful if indeed that is the fact and you are not covering up that's very very awful and then secondly you see a mass of people assuming you even want to enforce a coffee within the rightful time do you do that by opening bullets let's say it's blank let's even say it's blank let's say it's blank as we are here somebody should throw banger ordinary banger people have robbed people with toys also you need to be a soviet trained person to know that this toy may be the way the person has to but if there is no nice civilians is this how you disperse people is this how you disperse people by shooting up and down and straight at them you don't do that no use of fair gas nothing and all that and these people are not armed they are not terrorists they are not bandits they are let's say their girls even at best even the evidence before the party the military and the police we saw them with guns the police only alluded some people were smoking through pure water at the governor things that are necessary to use this kind of quantum of force so how would expect the panel to take all this into consideration and to look at what is happening because you are supposed to be the people's police you are supposed to be the people's army you are not supposed to be their enemy I mean it's bad for the national national image of the country that would be for a country that cares about its national and international image because I remember that the president did respond when he eventually addressed the country then and said foreign nation should basically mind their business I want you to go further or briefly now to just share your thoughts on the seeming disregard for the panel by the police and the legal segment that you already mentioned that they almost didn't show up but there is a particular case one of them in Anambra which of course I know you weren't a part of a police officer named James Wanfa who was very very popular as one of the people who was accused of multiple and multiple of these cases murders of dozens of people who also was summoned by the panel in Anambra state to date currently of course he was eventually fired by the Anambra state government then as the chief security officer but currently according to reports is now the CSO to Charles Soludo so I want you to share your views on why the police the Nigerian police didn't seem or doesn't seem in any way to want to be accountable for any of these crimes committed thank you so much for raising this issue you see you have a problem like this to me respectfully the worst thing to do is to go to the roots the police is like the let me say the police the army the security agencies are not that they are merely like the teeth and claws of a creature I don't want to use a beast they are the enforcers of the will of the creature so if so however sharp the teeth is it's only when it is used like a crocodile snap if it doesn't snap it if I have seen videos where some birds come and pick meat from the teeth of the crocodile so it don't become infested and they don't clamp on those things with the claws of the leopard or sheep it's only when they use it so the police and the military or any security agency they don't have the brain the brain have is with the political controller it is how they are directed that they act and this is the problem we are having the problem of a government not just this government not just this government in Nigeria the situation is that the government is not the government of the people it is the government of Kibar for the Kibar to be acting for the people this is the problem and if you want to test my hypothesis whether it is true just ask yourself what do the Nigerian government do in a particular situation I will tell you and know what they will do the last one I will say just look at what do the people of Nigeria want whatever the people of Nigeria want the government must oppose to it and whatever the government wants to do people must oppose to it so you find that there is a disconnect because you don't have the people's it's not worry that I started it a lot of them is just a pity that a government like this and an environment of democracy many of the founding fathers of this particular conglomeration of God it's a conglomerate who are Nadeku people who are people who suffered under a bacha another kind of a scene you know even under Jonathan people like General Wari and all of them did rallies and all that the tragedy that when you now have the situation the kind of climate of fear of tension we have in what way is it so different from the pre-1990 particularly the bacha years even the Babangida or the sub-riot it's 1993-94-95 the Kokori years and Wohala in one way we say it's different so the problem is not the police as you see them keep this they are programmed they are programmed when they say move when they say stay when they say don't look at it and that's even included the FCC there are people who don't prosecute they are people who don't prosecute you know and you see the character of the FCC always mirror the character of whoever is the president of the era the Ribadu era Ribadu with Oba Sanjo and everything look at the madam Waziri, Jonathan and everything and look at Magu and Buahari the man was never met with chairman he said no I can tell you he was acting chairman for five years but when he pleased them to remove him what is the fate of that man yes the mind I have done wrong but everything has gone to the cooler that's all and then you have not brought him power and a lot of the Pandora papers and everything some select people they used to say the story of they say we only have competition when some people wrote petition against Inuba and everything they draw petition nothing has happened so in a way these security people they are like the civil servants the civil servants do the bidders and they try to the executive the political class and so much that the judges fear the judges except the era of the putas the so called the man in the burden and all those kind of things when they did the show in car the show in car trial and yet the value was that upon the fact it was not proved you may not be able to that kind of a situation again there was a time when a high court judge said that he would commit Adamushi Roma secretary to government to prison if it does not appear in court they were the middle of the meeting the cabinet of Goa and released Goa and appeared before, is it Justice Genozo or somebody now even if the Supreme Court asked it is the sergeant the sergeant the corpora to come you will not come so you find you look at the Lagos panel too I think it took a lot of bigmanship to even get General Ibrahim to come and immediately it came all the other summons to the other people they just ignored it and I thought the panel maybe that's where your maturity and gravitas come in I think the panel is led by a very experienced judge it is the maximum court will not act in vain so what are we going to do now this military refused to come the Fed are even doing us a favor by coming, by bringing but when the man was to me with due respect when his testimony was could not survive the crucible of the fire of cross-examination they thought that the best thing to do is to do damage control and not to shop again what can the panel do I asked for someone like Fashella to be brought we call him again Fashella who discovered the emissive camera and everything the camera was never brought the gentleman did not come over that will tell you the character of the political elite that is why we need to change the system we need to change the system they feel that we are no citizens they feel that we are subjects and the governors, the president, the commission they think that they are royalty you know, you don't if somebody is your servant it does not exist to argue with you no, no, no, no you just give on us so that's the problem so the police that we are talking and the military that we are blaming let's look deeper is the controlling brain that is the problem we are yet to get decent accountable leaders who feel that the people have the owner of sovereignty sovereignty belongs to them we want to of course share with you a report from the events that took place on this day last year and of course right after that we will be having a live conversation with someone of course still concerning the end size protest and then we can talk about on a personal level, a victims level with them so enjoy this report and more than a week in October 2020 peaceful protesters were on the streets of major cities across Nigeria demanding justice for victims of police brutality the dissolution of the special antirepress court known as SAZ and the reform of the police force on October the 20th protesters at the Lekitou Plaza a key rallying point for demonstrations refused to leave basically that that was on the 20th and about day for say 12 to 12 in the afternoon we got that information that was going to be copied and that copy was starting at 4pm but we were still present at the 28th and the question was our demand our five demand as we've been met before we were still debating on that the activists were still protesting and saying they were going nowhere knowing well that some people didn't even come from Lagos who became from outside Lagos and there are roads are blocked there was particularly no movement we were still debating on people insisting that until the government attend to our need we got that information at about 2pm or there about I really can't place my hands on the correct timing right now that copy has been moved to I think 9pm and yeah we started celebrating like okay it's also an advantage for us to keep going and then anybody was preparing to go to their own that was an up to time but while we were doing that later in the afternoon we started going short what started out as a peaceful practice for better governance and the better Nigeria turned bloody that night people falling down there was an old man with a native there was a guy beside me wearing white shirts he was not Britain he was just there there was no gun wound on him but he was just life less there were a few other people who were shot and they were being carried from where they were to where all gathered they were shot I don't know if she's still alive I'm still trying to find out there was a guy that was shot in his ass and we were able to hold them still because they brought them from where they were shot at the tour gate because we were in a corner so they brought them from there to here so we're trying to put down the bullet trying to hold it down and affect them so we took them to the hospital one of the protesters streamed the shooting to more than 100,000 people on Instagram Live Nigerians watched as people tried to remove a bullet from the tie of a protestor as another took his last breath before her battery died and the live stream ended DJ Switch said they were surrounded by soldiers later in the evening I think a most senior military officer came to kind of douse the tension and then he was trying to address us the protesters were like this should have been the first thing not shooting at us randomly without even engaging in any conversation and so we kind of wanted to ask us to calm down and people were not ready to listen because at that point people were already in George, some people were already dead and I somehow had the courage to raise my hand and I walked in the direction to ask them can we get emblems for those people that are already down and I said where do we have emblems I put them somewhere around I know we used to have emblems and I decided to look I'm not going to go because even the animals were saying everybody go home and then as people were running to go to their homes they were shooting at them so I wasn't going until they gave me someone to cover me to get to that point where I can at least reach out for help to get emblems and reach a grantor every one of these odd leads to walk me out and it was the back of the night they could do anything so I was ready to get out and I met some guys that I approached the emblems and on getting the emblems to that point we had other armies by receding the road they didn't allow or access at that point when the emblems came around they weren't allowed to help they told them to go back we couldn't really take people that were shot we couldn't really take them out because we had been surrounded there were some emblems that came but the soldiers said no and the soldiers had to take them by themselves with their own vans the extent of the casualties still disputed but no fewer than 15 persons believed to have been killed efforts to reach the mandarin as the military said it won't speak the state panel investigating the matter was still sitting the Lakitu Plaza was set at least full of the shooting and no fee has been collected there since October the 20th 2020 and some of the protesters wanted to remain that way and have insisted on the place being turned into a memorial venue for the killings that took place Destiny Momo Africa really really really sad reports and of course just sharing revelations and personal experiences as to what happened on this day one year ago I'm going to speak with Mr. Agulano next talking now about the inability and of course the struggle with the conversation and proving the number of casualties proving the number of people that actually were killed on that day 28th of October last year share your views with us on that one why was that so much of a challenge and the government continued of course to fight those figures thank you so much it was a situation of huge trauma the incident of 20th October 2020 and the young people were scattered and you know that I say young people even in Nigeria even when you're up to like 20, 30, 30 30 most of them are still on their parents influence because no jobs really are known that and because of our African culture you are generally family ties are still very okay and so when this thing turned very ugly and people died many parents and I'm talking from the experience of my interaction who are badly scared they were prepared to disown their children the ones who managed to survive and another issue is that these people they are drawn from all over not that they know themselves they were not students of the same campus I would say students or something or the same neighborhood people came from far and wide like a kind of a mecca you just go to the big we call it barricades like a toge so when people get to I saw her case today her name is Tina or something not that you really know themselves maybe the celebs, maybe they know themselves but the average person they don't know themselves and then they were so mightily scared so much so that by the time the panel sat the first earliest sit-ins there was nothing nobody came and that was the time people are saying haha because a video is shooting it's a fiction that didn't happen that they were okay if people are dead or if they are injured if they cannot come up we are their parents and everything we had to rally around to try and make contact with them fortunately we had participated at the kejab barricade all through so we made some contacts and we had to persuade it was three ladies who were there who were prepared to appear before the panel and they were not opened in fact the first one that came to the panel and announced appearance for ensar's movement if you see the way by the way the lawyers to the government to LCC the jumped up racing legal objection that my lord we are not against to go and learn appearing but ensar's movement is not registered it's not a registered body so how can somebody come up and say that is representing ensar's because they were so sure that the climate of fear was so thick that these people could not come up but glory be to god these three ladies stood up and called their names and that's how we began to have legal representation because if we didn't cross that level then those who want to manage to pass away the other people there are people especially the boys they refused at 3, 4, 5 we've taken their deposition they say no sir I'm not coming again and some people came asking about after them and so so so in fact there were a set of people who came to the bus with all of them the appearance refused for them to come up from the bus that's when they gave us 3 months to register petitions ending December 21 or so the ones we managed to put in there are just a tiny fraction no the people who are afraid and some of them have to live legal in fact some of them travel outside the country as a land this is the problem but by the time the earliest the brief ones when they come to the panel they dress like ninja they have to cover their face they have to show that they will not be but I want to pay tribute to people like Dabira Ayoko people like Victor O'Neill people like Kamsin Chukubu all of these are ladies who are very heroic and who came out their courage there are other people with potato legs so this thing is real but do you think that any just before we can bring in a lawyer who is joining us via Zoom his name is Timmy O'Lagunju good morning Mr. O'Lagunju can you hear us I think we have lost him it's one of the council my question is right now do you think anything is going to change has anything really changed because we are having this conversation today all of the procession is actually going on people are still on the streets and like you rightly mentioned they are not saying we are protesting but they are saying we want to mourn those that lost their lives in the cost of the event that happened last year although the government is still somewhat denying that nothing really really happened but do you think anything is going to change has anything really changed it will change but it will not change now it will not change immediately that does not concede this is the nature of power especially when you are in the habit and tradition and culture of oppressing people just like the biblical story of Pharaoh despite the severe economic sabotage because in modern times all what the Bible recorded about Mousse is doing in severe economic you turn the river into blood that means you sabotage the agricultural economy you turn on their farms you destroy the farms even biological warfare in terms of the plagues of the frogs and everything even when you we call it in modern times we call it genocide when the Israelites lost their Jews lost their Facebook all over go go go at the same time this label is the major form of production and a whole nation of people were the slaves of another country and there were many is this how people are going to go so they have to run after them despite all the horrors they have gone through to me it is an allegory of the human nature when people are used to cheating even at domestic level some husbands they are not responsible but they have dominated the wives to the level that the car you are using is your wife's car but people do not know and you are using the car to be carrying women not only carrying the women to the house and the woman you are not the woman to cook for the for the Colisei but the Colisei chicks now something now and if I don't do it I will get into it so you will find that kind of a person is used to it so maybe when the children are going on say that you have to stop them the same thing so what is happening is that and that is why we are encouraging the people the youth because they are the future of the country not to relent every epoch as they remember during the colonial era the nationalists how to protest second the school boys how to protest because in the time of Niger for Nigerians and then post independence when we had the military even when you have things like operation wet when people in this western part of the country rejected the regain of a particular government and then the military era this particular democracy you saw how it came to be the period of a very tough period very tough period alright so the apologies we want to speak with good morning thanks for joining us can you hear us yes I can hear you clearly alright good morning thanks for joining us we have just a few minutes I want you to go ahead and share your views on concerning N-SARS how far we've come the events for today and the success of the panel if you can my view of N-SARS probably yeah I can hear you I can hear you clearly yes so my view of N-SARS is basically in the context of the reviving of the principles of social contract which is that the government is the employee and the people are the employers right and if you know you're ready to look at it because he will forget history is doomed to repeat saying if you look at it we've had years of military interregnum and we've not really nurtured ourselves sufficiently since independence in the culture of democracy right and so which is a culture of engagement of the citizens with the government and because we lack that culture and we're just evolving in that culture issues of this nature are bound to arise where the government sees an engagement of the protesters or a call for policy action as a means to calm down on citizens so the N-SARS protest for me that view revise that social contract we may be losing Mr Lagunju there we also have Akin who is at the toll gate currently to share with us what exactly is going on live at the toll gate good morning Akin can you hear us yes I can hear you how you guys doing we are outdoors I'm at the leki toll gate we're having the citizens protest as you can see us in very peaceful formation not making trouble the matter of fact I just spotted a survivor by the name of Solomon who was shot in the chest at the same toll gate a year ago I am putting on the same t-shirt I wore when I watched my fellow young lages get shot by this government in a certain stadium of assembly today we are back here we are unrelenting we are not scared we will protest we are not disturbing the peace our voices will be heard we have to take your questions is there any interference from the police men who are present at the toll gate so far we have Nigerians who came out us interrupting us driving here we have not seen that again they are somewhat restrained the media is present we may have also lost you we can reconnect with the time that we have but it's a really emotional day Sao Gulano I think you must agree with that all these conversations can you hear us welcome back I want you to describe what today's events will be like how many times are you going to be driving through the toll gate what will you signify I will give you a view of these trailing us to some of what you heard in the media we are not a trailing group of people we are not hoodlums as a matter of fact I am driven to have him in a vehicle as my chief rider and again we are here to make sure we are unrelenting and we will continue to make sure our voices are heard be safe out there thank you very much for the time you shared with us we will definitely reconnect with you we will reconnect with you thank you thank you we truly appreciate your time thank you the wealth of knowledge that you have shared with us this morning and also the service that you have also rendered to these protesters and those people who had sought justice during the protest I think we have been to bring back Timmy welcome back if you can hear us clearly now can you hear me now? yes I can so if you can in just about a minute please share with us what today signifies and if there is still any hope for justice for those people who lost their lives last year well like I said today signifies the fact that there is a remembrance of that revival of the social contract between the citizens and the government and a revival of our democratic culture because when a democracy not a military regime and in a democracy the currency of the government is trust between itself and the people and that today signifies a remembrance to the government of the need to build that trust because that trust is completely eroding itself now in terms of justice the report of the panel needs to be taken into executive action so that it does not end up like the put the panels and the laudable reports that we've had in this country and so if we do that then justice is said and done and justice needs not just to be said and done it must be evidently seen to be done because evidence is the end of argument thank you thank you also for joining us we can reconnect with you sometime during the news bulletins today good morning once again once again once again I appreciate your time thank you and we would love to see you again thank you absolutely alright this is where we'll be wrapping up it has been an amazing conversation thank you so much for being part of this conversation and to catch up on all of the conversation do not forget to follow us on instagram and facebook and on youtube is plus tv africa i am messi vocal