 You're still watching the breakfast on plus TV Africa is time to see the stories making round on our national dailies this morning And joining us to review the papers is Professor Camille Sanny Fagge is from the Department of Political Science Bayero University Cano good morning, sir. Thank you for joining us as always Hello, sir. Good morning. Okay. Thank you very much. Yes. Thank you. Thank you Okay, so let's just dive right into the papers and today we'll be starting with nature news So there's a small headline here that says EU partners Nigeria on Comprehensive residential energy survey. What are your what are your thoughts on that one the EU partner in light with Nigeria? I mean the president of I've been looking for partners I've been looking for investors and now we're seeing the EU partners with Nigeria on comprehensive residential energy survey What's your take on that? This is a good thing that At least we one of our major problem is up to now we are yet to know ourselves in terms of Population all basic statistics that are you know are essential for policy making so I think if we have External or foreigner coming to Partner with us on this issue. I think it's a good thing Especially we are talking of EU which has you know tremendous experience on the area So I think this is one of the major Achievement that we can say the government tool Get if they are able to Get the partnership So but what impact do you think this can make for Nigeria and on you mean I mean Nigerian homes because we're talking about Residential energy survey, so we're talking about homes now. So what impact can this possibly make? Unless you know basic statistics on the energy need the consumption and other things you cannot be able to You know supply and let's say for example Electricity water and other things you cannot be able to adequately cut up for Nigerians So if you have an adequate Sideway, you may have basic data which will enable you to now plan and address this issue. For example Since Sunday, I think the national grid has collapsed. Yeah, these are part of the things that We are overloading it. There is no statistics. So where we have basic statistics like this I think I would go other way towards addressing our energy needs in Nigeria Well, we hope that a national grid won't collapse again since This partnership might just be impactful as we hope it will be Anyway, so let's move over to another. Okay. You have you have something to say Go ahead You know Take a time to get the statistics and then plan ahead But this is a future not Immediate solution to the problem that we are having now. Yes, but I want to believe that they are already working on that I mean in the last few years, we've seen the the national grid collapse a number of times So if they're saying a survey, I want to believe the survey has been done before now And what are they doing to even stop the national grid collapsing? We can't be the giant of Africa and we're in darkness Don't you think We could have the survey so we could have the data but The policy makers may not be using it So having the statistics having the survey and everything is one thing But it is very important that we use the data to plan ahead and Go ahead and implement the policy that we plan Sure I agree with you. All right. Let's move over to another headline. It says miners operators or federal government 2 trillion and naira in royalty and taxes. This is from deli a lack So you're saying the miners and operators or the federal government about 2 trillion naira in royalties and taxes so we're in debt And the miners are still nigerians in deaths The miners are in debt to nigeria who is in debt This is this is a whole lot for me to take in but I want to hear what your thoughts are on this one 2 trillion naira in royalty and taxes You see most most of the Mining companies are informal they're illegal. So that is why you cannot have Such huge amount of revenue that Will go which is supposed to come to the government But because they are illegally operating or informally operating That is why we don't have it and the other thing is corruption You know, there is even the agents who are supposed to get to assess the tax and to get it for the government They are, you know, being bright with small talking and they will Not care to Although tanda heads are Away from the issue. So I think this is advantageous in this in this time When you know, we are in cut cuts when the economy is in difficulties I think everybody should have Have the national Listen to so that People should not be oiled the government Taxes especially companies that are making a lot of money And the other irony of it is that some of these Companies are even owned by foreigners. So they use in connivance Who say some nigerians to deprive nigeria of such huge amount of money So I know that I know that in other countries for instance in the u.s. You hear of people Evading taxes you hear of tax evasion a lot of times And sadly we live in a country where you know, sometimes someone just has to grease the other person's palm And they look the other way. But why do you think people try to evade taxes? If you have been able to make, you know, so much money and then you have some resources that is acquired such as infrastructure Um Roads power and all of the things that actually aids your Establishment for you to make that money. Why should it be paying the taxes to the government? So Why do people evade tax so much in nigeria? I'll talk a bit is because the sanction is weak. Other places that I mentioned it The sanction is very high very tough. Whoever evades taxes no matter the person once is caught There are those that will deal with you. But in nigeria, you know people I easily get Away from such and secondly like I said earlier the issue of corruption The people that are assigned or the officials that are supposed to assist and collect the tax are corrupt So you give them small talking and somebody run away with it. In other words, it is easy a for people to evade taxes in nigeria Even if they are caught it is easy for them to evade the no So that is why this evasion of tax is very frequent in nigeria Well, I hope that you know for everyone who Who tries to evade the taxes, you know, they're prosecuted because in the u.s People go to jail for tax evasion people serve time for tax evasion in nigeria. We really don't see That sometimes people just say, oh, don't worry. I can't work it for you But we're hoping that we start to have a nation that is That has integrity. I think that's the word that has integrity If you are making money, you should be able to pay your tax and that should be it All right, let's move over to the guardian and the major headline here says duty increase spot FX rate adoption throw market into panic and Yeah, that's where we are. So every day the FX has been rising over the past couple of months And now we're seeing duty increase as well The duty for people who are importing stuff It's increased and all of that just throws the market into panic. What is your take on this one? In the last day, maybe 24 hours or so the the government The customer has read the duty twice And it's throwing the country into panic Already, uh, you know, we are consumers. We consume what we Import what we consume and by the time you raise taxes It means the inflation will go high as we are witnessing now Secondly, it means the living condition of nigerians will deteriorate as we are witnessing now And so I think it's a very very negative policy that the Government is doing Based on on that issue But what they are saying is they are trying to You know, take the taxes along with the dollar. So yes, the dollar as a niner, you know, of course Yes, the dollar they Raise it twice like I said, so we don't know how many times they are going to do it impact Some people are saying From the story that it has not taken at this rate Some few things that are nigerians Buy like 100,000 now it may be I mean 10,000 or so it may go up to 100,000 And so like stable goods like other basic necessities, which are we all import Well, I don't even think it's soon. I think it's happening now already You you something that you bought for about let's say 10,000 Before now you're seeing it double and triple in price. So it's happening already. That's where we are That's the reality that we live in right now as nigerians But I want to flip the script a little bit now if we're talking about The import duty being increased and All of these taxes shouldn't that you know Stop us from importing too much because where we are a country that consumes everything imported For instance, you go to a to a supermarket and you see something that is made in Nigeria Nine out of 10 times most people want to pick up the one that is imported because they think that that has Some form of superiority over the one that is made in Nigeria They feel like the made in Nigeria products are inferior But if we keep importing, you know, all of these products or the produce that we use that definitely You know makes our currency weak We are at the mercy of the dollar or whatever x FX rate FX currency that we're using So it shouldn't this, you know, kind of motivate us to start to work or start to manufacture the things that we produce We've seen that happen in china. So shouldn't that be what we're looking at right now in Nigeria? Yeah, this is what we should be doing But it takes two to turn one And the issue that you know, most of our industries have collapsed and secondly is the fact that really most of our products are Substandard they cannot compete with What we import and certainly and most importantly is the fact that they all over the world Government tend to have protection that they tend to protect their basic sins and they tend to you know Advertise that you should buy only made of Products even in America, you see that they campaign too much about buying America Buy americans But yeah, we don't do that and the government think that by liberalizing by opening the market to compete That will help us it will never help us because what they are bringing out is far superior than our home And there is no incentive by the government to make the domestic producers to compete favorably with the Foreigners so as in this there are a lot of factors and above all like these Psychological in that we have our inferiority conflicts. We feel that anything foreign is superior than our home So unless we take the campaign to you know, enlighten the people on the need that to consume what to produce Rather than to rely on Importance in even to speak we imported and we think if we take the to speak Nigerian to speak and Maybe foreign imported people will see the the imported one is better. Perhaps unless in that Nigerians think It's better than imported one. I think is what they call the cocoa wire that that is the electricity wire that We have other than that, but when the everything Yes, that's when everything Nigeria. We think is inferior and so that's that psychological inferiority complex also that contributes to this penchant for importation Well, I mean you you mentioned about the the fact that you know some products might be Inferior and substandard, but I think isn't that where the standard organization of Nigeria comes in So ensure that the products or the whatever we're producing is you know adequate Has adequate quantities and materials the standard doesn't fall below You know, whatever has been set. Where is the standards organization of Nigeria coming? It is there it is supposed to do but you know, we go about the same issue of corruption You know who is a few since people at Greece hands and the official who will turn the way Pays away from the issue. So I think We have to take a holistic approach a fighting corruption in You know a enlightening the people so that at least we now have a sense of pride in our nation We have a sense of pride in what would produce and the government should create a Produceable environment or producers to do so if we have all these multiples and that is why it works So even if you have standard organization and it is there, but like I said, it's of corruption That is why we don't have a steep regulation of you know standard Okay, let's let's just move away from that a little bit. There's a small headline here It says your policies promoting despair Atticus tells tinu boo. What do you think about that? This is the presidential candidate of the people's democratic party pdp and he is Addressing the president of the federal republic of Nigeria president Bola met tinu boo that his policies Are promoting despair? What do you think do you think the policies of the president? I mean he's just been is less than a year in our office right now But do you think the policies so far are promoting despair in Nigeria? Uh, really they are Politics aside, we should we should set aside who said it but the reality is that Nigerians, you know I despise about What is happening now? We said it to that Implementation is Very high, you know Just now we could talk about you buy something We can go also at 100 Naira also Or it now I 10,000 Naira it is now about a hundred Naira So you see the liberal standard The hard of inflation and poverty these are things that make Nigerians despair They make them a little bit worried and the government is losing support, you know in in Nigeria and We said like I said let's take our aside that Achibu is an opposition, but even the United Nations they pick, you know last week I said there was a statistics which say that One in every ten Hungry passing in the world is in Nigeria So see these are some of the things that the reality on ground that will make Nigerians not happy Because of the liberal standard and you see it in so many places people have started coming out protesting That the liberal standard is But so I think what the government needs to do is not to Play into politics about it Even though it's a opposition The government should critically look at this issue in order to see how they address it unless they do that I think they will lose support or they drastically losing support among Nigerians Okay Let's move over to security matters So There are two headlines here that I want to look at here on the guardian and says kidnapping epidemic a failure of intelligence action at federal capital And then there's another headline here. They're talking about the akts state School children and teachers who have regained their freedom. However, the driver was killed But talking about the kidnapping epidemic a failure of intelligence Action at the federal capital. Do you think it's the intelligence that is the problem? Or do you think it is not being acted upon that is the problem? So, you know, we can propose and say this is this is what the problem is Um, we need intelligence. We need processed information. We need this and that But are we really doing anything with the information that we get the intelligence in court that we get Are we doing anything with it? So, what do you think is the problem because if they're saying that a failure of intelligence, you know Is the problem what was it's your take on that? Do you think that's what the problem is the root cause of the matter? Yeah, it's it's a combination of both the pain or one it means we we don't have the intelligence, you know, uh, that uh, You know intelligence is the surest way to, you know, and um This issue of insecurity because by the time you Rejected you hear it up from taking place. That is when you ask your but if it happens then is You know the system has collapsed. That is one thing. We don't have it Secondly, even if we have it, um, we don't use it So part of the failure is not having it another part of the reason for the failure is having it But not using it and a certain reason for the failure is there is lack of synergy between all the elements For example, the ss will have a scare is purity in tangent the police will have their own military will have their own And but there is no attempt to see that there is there are these things So that is why we have it and uh, we also live in a set of denial By the time you take these things we take Deny it's a existent if they are part Security intelligence report sometimes we deny it And then if you deny the existence of the problem, you are not taking any step towards You know solving it. So I think this failure is a combination. It manifests itself in so many things like I said Yeah Okay, so let's just move over to the punch. We're still on the same matter which talks about the kidnapping epidemic and That is the major headline on the punch. It says fundraising for ransom exists It's a popeo's family's pay 15 million an era and the rider here says victims relatives friends neighbors raised ransom School driver killed and that is being said by the proprietor kidnappers slain slash Slain quara monaco widows ransom to 40 million an era suspected Suspect arrested. So now we're talking about ransom I know in in in my head or how it's been said before is we do not negotiate with terrorists And you shouldn't even pay ransom. In fact, we've had cases where the the security department will come and say no You shouldn't engage with these people and try to pay ransom. But we're seeing here that Um, the families and the friends and colleagues of these people, you know paid 15 million an era ransom Are we in the in in this era are we in this era of You know kidnapping and paying ransom Is this now the the way for people to just easily make money? Because they know that if I kidnap this person I'm going to it's going to be a payday for me And I know that the government is not going to do so much to find me investigate and prosecute me So is this where we are now and It's sad if that's where we are But how can we get out of this pit of a hole? Is it a kidnapping and ransom is not becoming a business people are making huge money out These are business people are making a huge money out of me. That is why they keep on trying it And secondly is the fact that The government has not been able to address the issue They are only saying that people should not pay that it is illegal for people to pay is like you say Negotiating with a terrorist by what can the people do? You cannot have somebody his loved one has been abducted And then if he allows the loved one is either he's going to be key or he's going to be maim And the government is doing nothing. So it is led to the people to to now pay there and some in order to get the You know loved ones out of From the hands of the terrorists if we can use the word like that So I think what we have to do is the government to make sure that It's head of this issue of kidnapping and it goes back to what we have said earlier on That there should be intelligence report By the time you have intelligence report, you can leave the scene in the body before it takes a Place where it fails why it happens? It is the responsibility of the government to rescue the people you shouldn't allow the victims family to be You know the ones in charge what are they going to is a double jeopardy They are now suffering the fact that There's been abducted and now they are paying they have to get money to pay it on their own And now you are saying it is illegal that there was a time even the national assembly was muting the idea of even Punishing those who pay the ransom. So what do you want to do if you cannot ask if the government cannot ask to them Yeah, they allow it to they put the blame on the soldiers of the responsibility on the soldiers of the Family, so I think the government Children come out and say it is illegal because in the past place This is the responsibility of the government to prevent it from happen if it happened If it happens, it is the responsibility of the government to arrest the air in the situation It is also the responsibility of the government to push out the perpetrators and punish them So it will deter others from doing it in the future All right. Um, there's there's a headline here that might just interest you and it says nscdc Trains vigilantes to secure to secure 821,000 vulnerable schools. So now We're taking it into our own hands. It's it's basically if the government would not secure me Well, let's raise some people that can secure our our children pretty much And now we're seeing well the government who is well nscdc Who's also part of the government is training vigilantes to secure 821,000 vulnerable schools But isn't that isn't this the job of the police department? Um, the Nigerian police forces in this their job to ensure that they are securing the lives and properties of Nigerians And even the vulnerable children as well What are they doing and now that brings me to the point of state police because if I am seeing vigilantes It means people in my local environment Are taking the job of the police or taking the job of the security force that we probably need Isn't that the reason why we should be looking at the state police that we're talking about? Just my thoughts What do you think? Yeah, it is part of the same but you see the responsibility that uh of the police But the police are literally handicapped. I you know, they they are qualified They are qualified. They are qualified So I said it is the government responsibility to do that by the time the government shifts Is focused on vigilantes It's creating a sort of a lot of problems. Well, it is that they are, you know Crippling the Official security system that is the police are responsible for these things constitutionally So I think that in type of focusing on Vigilante the government should take care of the police so that they can adequately police the country You know, that is the responsibility of the government. Now the issue of state policy You know, we have to look at both sides of it. Yes, but at the time you have state policy You are now localizing security challenges and people Will be able to They will both be traitors because they are promoting the Quarminity and you make it easier By centralizing the system so that you don't have as a over centralization from the paper Sometimes some issues are local. You cannot I have to wait for the center to do it But by the time some passes on this local policy on vigilantes You are not creating a potential problem also because they will now become an authority on their own For example, what happened in Zempara initially, you know when they want the issue of kidnapping and this and started It was you know compounded by the vigilante So they took the loaded to their hands whenever they get any suspected Suspicious person a person was suspected for doing that They don't even take him to the authority there and then they either kill him or they maim him and that one You know, it curated some people and they began to take arms against the vigilantes and this is where we are So I think there's a need For the government to pay attention On, you know Police and you know training them and also paying them We so that at least we don't have to go into the issue of This vigilante thing and the other thing is If we have police and you say we are going to have state police One consequence will be You are overpowering you are empowering the the governance look at what the governors are doing with local government So at the time they have police They will now abuse the system when election come against their opponent So I think we have to look at ways by which we can decentralize the policing system and also Equip it well and finance it well so that at least we'll have the motivation and the capability To address this issue of security challenges Okay, so you talked about um, you know the state governors and what they do right now and it could be an abuse of power If you know they we start to do this whole state police thing that people are trying to Put forward But then we've seen the likes of amotecone and what they've done and we've seen how effective that has been So isn't that you know a step in the right direction because it's one thing to be pessimistic and say Oh, you know the state governors are going to abuse this and we don't know how it's going to be We decentralize, you know the the police force But shouldn't we be optimistic that this might actually work in the in the united states? For instance, you have the nypd. You have the la pd. You have all of these Police departments that are peculiar to the state and because definitely you know your environment You know the nook and crannies of your state and so even if you know kidnapping or stealing or Whatever the case might be any form of Illegality happens. You can swing into action So don't you think we should start to look at this from the from an optimistic lens? Then then to be pessimistic and say it might just not work And this is our final question for this because we have to wrap up the segment No, I think we have to be optimistic that uh, this is the way that is why I say When you decentralize part of the decentralization is this way Uh, when you mention, uh, america, they have local government police. They have uh state police They have federal impact even organization have their own policies But what makes their own system work is that uh, the law of uh, this The law is above everybody so there is rule of law unless you have rule of law when you decentralize You are going to empower this so what I'm I'm not against decentralization But what I'm saying is decentralization should be subjected to a rule of law Whoever abuses it can be punished. So if you do that one, I think we are okay with the decentralization Okay, fantastic. I think um One thing I'm going to take from this is the rule of law So nobody is above the law and if you Are on the other side if you're against the law, then you should be prosecuted Anyways, this is what we're going to wrap it up on this segment We want to thank you for joining us and reviewing the papers this morning Thank you very much. Thank you so much All right, we've been speaking to um Professor Kamilu Sani Fagi and he was from the department of political science Bayero university canon and we've just been reviewing the papers and you know What are national dailies I've been saying this morning, but we'll go on a short break And when we return we'll be looking at our first hot topic. Please stay with us