 We're glad to know you're still there. It's still the breakfast on Plus TV Africa, and we're on to our final lap of this journey. Now we're going to Ondo State, where a barely lucid Akeridolu begs the question whether he's still fit to stay as governor of Ondo State. Now, our guest for this morning is Dr. Law Mayfoe, a political scientist. Good morning and welcome to the program, Dr. Good morning. I'm actually a social psychologist. Social psychologist. Yeah, okay. Well, for the layman, he's always one on the same thing. But, yeah, I get the difference. Now, Ondo State, there's so much drama coming from Ondo State. From the fact that the governor is not seen by the people of Ondo State to the fact that we've seen documents signed by the governor, perpetually signed by the governor, which we have discovered are forged, to the state assembly saying that there will be no probing for the people who may have forged the certificate of the signature of governor Akeridolu and a commissioner who is talking tough and saying that whoever did that is going to face the music and all that. There's so much drama coming from Ondo State. Would you like to have your insight or not insight, your take on what is happening in Ondo State? Yeah, first of all, I wish His Excellency, governor Akeridolu, speedy recovery. I'm actually a fan of his. I like him a lot because he has demonstrated a lot of courage. Yeah, it came to a number of things. And at the point, I was looking forward to him leading the entire southern divide of our polity and things like that. Because if you notice, we have often had the North and Gopnoz forum, but we never had the South and the Gopnoz forum, except there was in a while they come together, make some noise at this pass. You know, I had looked forward to somebody like Akeridolu really anchoring South and Gopnoz forum and matching the Northern divide up and providing the perspective of Southern Nigeria to what things ought to be. Unfortunately, he took ill and this has run for months now. And you see, the fact remains that we have too many lacunas in our laws. Otherwise, the capacity of Akeridolu to hold ought to have been demonstrated by now. It should not be left to speculation. Things normally find in our polity. There ought to be a length of time and occupier of the office of the president, vice president, Governor and deputy must be seen, you know, seen, actively seen. Otherwise, automatically, a medical investigation will kick in. It shouldn't even require any resolution or whatever. It will become a compulsory legal requirement for the pass of assembly of the affected state to activate that clause of the constitution. But as it is, you don't have that. What you have is a provision that talks about the conditions for the development of the governor or the president and their deputies. These conditions, very clear, gross misconduct, permanent incapacity, impeachment and so on and so forth. And the one we are looking at now that has to do with Akeridolu is the suspicion of the permanent incapacity. And in my own estimation, like I said, I have voted against him as a president. I'm talking about what ought to be. I sincerely believe that his state of health must be determined. And it is passionate medical investigation conducted to determine whether or not he is fit to stay home. We have had so many talks about him, even when he was in Germany for a very long time and upon his return also, we suppose that he is still in Nigeria, but he cannot be accessed. And the very serious health condition as serious as cancer is even being suspected, but not yet proved. So why should Nigerians, particularly the old people, they subjected to that kind of misery when we all know that they are like their future and even their present everyday life depends on the health of the governor. Even, you know, nature involves a vacuum. I believe that the right thing to do is to institute a medical planner in all those state professions, not even the property of the political party. After all, the transition we see within the party itself. But do you think his cabinet doesn't want him to vacate this seat because they still want to be the ones in the helm of the affairs of the state? No, but even if he vacates the seat, you know, by constitutional provision, it is the deputy that steps in. He is still a DC. And even where the deputy doesn't step in, the second line is the speaker of the House of Affairs, with the House of Assembly on top. And he is still a DC. So he's still within the same party. I don't see why this is called Kula Baloo. When everybody knows that there are certain very dangerous presidents, you cannot hold the country to ransom. This sort of thing happened in Nigeria some years ago. On down his excellency, President Omarumosa Yaduwa, he took Yale to this extent as well. And David Mack, as the president of the Senate and chairman of National Assembly, was able to save the country. He moved the National Assembly, invoked the doctrine of necessity. And that was what saved the country from constitutional crisis. You know, what has happened, you know, though it's not good for anybody. It's not even good for the governor himself. He needs to, if he is a basic, he needs time to concentrate on his recovery. Because as long as he is holding on to power, even in his sick bed, and unable to effectively run the state, what he is doing is creating a lacuna for a caba that will be using his name to run the state. Well, at this point, doctor, we have to be fair to Akeridolu. The fact that his signature is being forged shows that he is not in control. So, whatever we could say, Akeridolu is doing. He is not in control. And this kind of thing can only happen in Nigeria. He is sick, but not really, he should resign on his own. He doesn't need anybody to ask him to resign. But he can't at this point. He is not in control. It's very important. Now, his signature is being forged to the ends that nobody can determine. You know, you can be sure that phones are busy phoned. And the people doing this are not elected. You can't hold them accountable to the people. And the only person that can stop them is Akeridolu himself. He is either fit or unfit. If he knows to his conscience, he knows whether or not he can make it back to that outfit. And even if he can make it back to the office, eventually, but the health is no longer good enough for him to even stand there any longer. He should horribly resign and concentrate on his recovery. Okay, so what he cannot resign is there any other person that can actually invoke this doctrine of necessity on his behalf? It's the House. It's the House of Assembly. They are the ones. If you read chapter 6 part 2, subsection 188 of the Constitution, it tells you what the House ought to do in a circumstance like this. And what the House wants to do is to take a medical probe. But there has to be a resolution passed by a whole-to-third of the House. That is where the problem is. So cleavages, people will frustrate the process from within the House and outside the House. So we didn't go to court. And I'm aware that the matter is also before the court. And a matter like this, you are inviting interference of the judicial and of government in a matter that is purely legislative. It is the legislature that should invite the judiciary because the chief justice of the state is asked by the House to institute a panel, right? Even though the panel will have to be done by the speaker of the House, the authorization will have to come from the judiciary. But if you look at it, this calls for a measure of decency and civilization. We need to understand that we are dealing with, we are dealing with our democracy. The democracy, the way we practice it is not the way democracy is practiced anywhere. What this whole thing translates to is what I call state capture. When those states are captured, they can't burn, they are captured on those states. It's using a curative, to take a trade and start. And this is where the tragedy is. Pressure must be brought on a curative, and that is where I wonder what has happened to investigative journalism in Nigeria. By now, investigative journalists should tell us the state of health of a credo. If in the Western world, by now, his status must be known. We don't have people who can dig that deep. You don't find them. Mohammad Buhari and his president were outside Nigeria for about 200 days, cumulatively. Nobody knew what he is doing today. Even the president of the country is not too famed. You don't get nobody tells you precisely what is going on. So at the end of the day, he is treated as safe. The person's health is part of his fundamental human rights. No, it is not. You are ruling the people. And the people you are, will need to know your state of health. And it goes back to, again, what I talked about, the constitution of the country. The 1999 constitution is so useless, it creates laws without providing what you call thresholds. For example, like I mentioned, if a governor or a president is absent from his office, you put a threshold. The threshold will say absent from his office for one day, one month, 30 months. Let us know. So we are all counted together with the state of the world. We are all counted. Once it gets to that level, public pressure will be brought to the affected House of Assembly or the National Assembly to invoke the the import of that threshold set out by the law. But you don't find that in Nigerian constitution. So these are problems we have. It creates a lacuna for confusion and conflict which allows the campers all over the place to assume an office on behalf of any person by proxy. We suffered it under Yeraduwa. We suffered it under Buhari. A cabba will just take over and run the country. Look at where we are as a country now. So I believe that what is happening is not right. It should be stopped for two weeks. The state capture that is going on in Nigeria has to be stopped for two weeks. All those states don't belong to anybody. It doesn't even belong to ABC. They are given the right to rule now. But the entire group of people are not all ABC. And even if they are all ABC, they still want to be governed by the person they elected. Now the governor cannot look and not discharge his responsibilities. And his medical status is not determined. So for how long will that go on? Because as long as we allow this, what that means is that months we keep ruling. Ruling back. And his family in office will expire now for the people of understate. When that happens, that becomes the only time he would say that his terminal has come to an end by the constitution. So what is the way to go now for the people of understate? What can they do to ensure that they are being governed even by the person they elected or even by anyone else, but to be sure that the responsibilities of the government have been discharged? What the people must rise and besiege the House of Assembly to evoke the provision for America to approve. That's the only way. Because if we evoke, if they prevail on them to evoke the provision for America to approve, they will not know the status, the health status. If, for example, as SunSauce is claimed, that what is in his cancer certainly he cannot run for that. But if it is something that the prognosis suggests he will recover from, the medical group will prescribe that given this period that the governor will make a full recovery. Then people will have hope that the governor is coming back. Now nobody can say anything. So that is why the medical group is inevitable. If he saves the governor himself, one is to ensure that he is not being unnecessarily held out of office. Any of us can fall sick. So nobody is celebrating his sickness. Like I said, I am his fan, very serious fan of his. And I have so much expectations hoping that he will be in it. But then, without health, there is little or nothing you can do. So the way out, only one way out is to besiege the House of Assembly and compare them to invoke the clause that prescribes the medical group of any improvement. And based on it, they will vote whether or not he should remain in office. That's it. Thank you so much, Doctor, for joining us. That's what we have to wrap up. The pleasure is always mine. Thank you. Have a blessed day, Nigeria. We've been talking to Dr. Alomé for years as social psychologist. We've just been talking about the state of Ondo and what is to be done to ensure that the people are being governed right and correctly. So yes, I think that's where we wrap it up on to this show. Before we go, I just want to say if the kind of akeridolu I knew was the same akeridolu now, I'm not sure he would want what is happening in Ondo's state to happen. Whoever is sitting on him, as it were, to make sure that Ondo doesn't get what he deserves should at least disease from that. We've seen that from Yara Dua, we've seen that from Sontai, who had a plane crash and was incapacitated. It took some time before he was able to leave the scene and all that. So this should not keep happening. I'm afraid that akeridolu will come back soon and comes back to his senses and everything. He goes up for like 10 hours after any chemotherapy that he undertakes. So we just feel for him. We hope that the people of Ondo will do the needful. Yes, exactly. Thank you for joining us today. It's been nice giving you all the information that you require here on the breakfast. See you tomorrow again. My name is Rumeet Paulsen. And I'm Nyamgul Aghaji. See you tomorrow.