 sunsets free is free indeed and we are so glad that you're joining us on hope today because we love spending these 30 minutes with you with you and Jesus Holy Spirit got all of us together in this so we can encourage you and uplift your spirit. I'm here with Pastor J. Anthony Gilbert and here with Anna Fry and Anna tell us about our conversation that we are digging into today because it's important. Yes, we're all excited for this. It's a great one for Friday. We're glad that you're with us and here on hope today. Our desire is to bring hope into the places that feel hopeless. We don't want you to be feeling hopeless this weekend. So our guest today, Dr Greg Jance is here to dig deep into the emotion of shame. He's a world renowned expert on depression, anxiety, eating disorders, technology addiction and abuse. Dr Jance says that you can absolutely find healing for your most toxic emotion. So Pastor J, this is sure to be a powerful conversation that can truly change the trajectory of someone's life. Yeah, for sure. First, let me say I'm so glad to be with you. Wonderful ladies and so glad that you all have tuned in because I believe today is going to be very powerful. You know, when you think about shame, shame is kind of, in my opinion, it's the second level of guilt. Guilt means you've done something wrong. Shame means there's something wrong with you. And if you know anybody that's battling with shame, we believe today, the spirit of the Lord is here to set you free from shame. You know, Jesus took on everything. He took it all on not only what we did wrong, but even everything that's wrong with us and God wants to set you free. So I'm really excited to see people because, you know, when we do something wrong, we feel guilty. But when we start turning inward and have our mind against ourselves, you can never go anywhere in life as long as you're battling with shame. You'll never make it. Well, Pastor J, I like how you were just breaking down what shame is because that is something like I was dealing with, you know, a lot. And I think sometimes when you hear the word, but you don't truly understand the definition. So I appreciated your definition. Anna, what is your definition of shame? Oh, my definition of shame. Oh, gosh. I mean, I just think that it's when you feel like you're not good enough. Like it doesn't matter how hard you strive. You can exhaust yourself trying to reach this level of perfection. And yet there's something that has this grip on you that's constantly whispering in your ear that you're not enough. Like you're never gonna have it together enough to be the parent that you want to be. Be the spouse you want to be the friend, the family, the employee. Like it's so important to have built in this self awareness of what happened in our past that might be putting that narrative in our head that really just needs to be shifted to find freedom. And I think that's the reason why you have to know who you are in Christ Jesus because we all have a past. Yes, we do. You know, I love, I think Dr. Mike Smollett, whenever he comes here, you talk about, yeah, do you know what skeletons you have in your past? And he said, I don't have any skeletons in my past. When you died, when Jesus died on the cross for your sins, you died with him. And we have to begin to identify not with what happened to us or even what we did wrong. But we have to learn to identify with who we are in Christ Jesus sitting. That's really true. And so one thing I even know when it came to shame because I walked through a season where I didn't even realize that it had a grip on me. Sometimes I think we have these strongholds or these things that we're walking through and we don't even know the impact. And so doing that deep dive, because I know sometimes for me when I'm feeling low or I'm feeling down, it's like you turn inward and you start thinking out saying all these things of these self negative thoughts that just go in your head. And it's just so important that one is just like, okay, Jesus, to recognize that it's happening and two to be in community with people that can love on you, that can affirm you and speak life over you because that that is so important. Maybe today you are dealing with that that maybe as we're having this conversation like, you know what? That's me. Like what Anna and Pastor Jay are sharing is like, I can identify with that. And you know, we just want to let you know, we always have our prayer line that is open and available to you because we do not want you to walk alone because we know the enemy loves to isolate, but we are community. We are family here on Hope Today on Cornerstone Intelligent Network. So give us a call at 888-665-4483, Anna. Yes, we are ready for a little bit of freedom, right? So, but is it possible to find healing for an emotion as strong and toxic as shame? Dr. Greg Jantz says, yes, like absolutely yes. And in his new book, Freedom from Shame, Dr. Jantz unpacks how you can get free once and for all and start living the life that God intended. So Dr. Jantz, I know you so we could call you Dr. Greg. Welcome to Hope Today. Oh, it's really good to be with you and such an important topic. And you guys just find it quite well. Good job. Yay. Yes, points on a Friday. Well, I was especially intrigued with your background that you are a world renowned expert in this and you have a center in the state of Washington that has been that is in the top 10 centers for treating anxiety, depression. So tell us just a little bit about how you got into this field and why you have like really dug into the depths of it. I really do believe, by the way, there's hope and traditional psychology is, in my opinion, just one singular approach. We want to ministry to the whole person. We always need to look at what's going on spiritually and we need to always have that as a foundation. But we also know that nutrition and exercise, potentially body chemistry issues, that's going to influence our mental health. We also know that things like trauma and events that have happened to our life that really feel like they have not resolved that that's another piece. So we really believe in the power of the ministry to the whole person and we're celebrating our 39th year. It's amazing to say that. And as I look at, is there any one single issue that usually individuals need to have a breakthrough? It's probably in the area of shame. And you say that shame is like cancer, that it is the most toxic emotion. Why is that? I know that's a really powerful statement, but it's be like cancer to the soul because shame and you said it so well earlier. Shame really says I'm defective. There's something wrong with me. I never will be okay. Shame says that I can never be who God called me to be. Shame says I'm unlovable. Nobody could really love me and that's the lie of the enemy. Shame lies to us about who God created us to be. And what I love is that the work you do really seeks out the roots of where this shame started. You say that there are various roots. You know, one of the roots can really be that of comparisons. Maybe you grew up in a home and maybe a parent said, well, why can't you be more like your sister? Look at her. Look at how well she's doing. Look at how nice she looks and her grades are exceptional. Why can't you be more like her? Okay, that's just an example of of shame over time that says, you know what, I'm not good enough. I'll never be good enough. So that's an important issue for we look at is where are the traumas in our life that say I've been injured? Where did the message come from? Yeah, there's a lot of power when we start truly analyzing the voice in our head that narrative and like, Oh, did I did somebody that I trusted an authority figure say these words over me and I appreciated just all the stories that you have in your book and you shared close to the beginning about a young woman in her 20s who was such a high achiever and yet she had no zest for life and she was just feeling like not good enough. Can you share a little bit of her story and what she discovered through time with you? Yes, one of the things is perfectionism overachievement where that's my focus. That's where I get all my value and my value comes from all my doing and you'll never quite feel good enough. Maybe in one area of your life you could have great success and you really have Excel, but also you feel like it's never enough and that's the lie. That's the message of shame. Now, when we're healthy, we also know and we can give and receive love. If I'm full of shame, I might have a heart of blame. I might have a lot of resentments. I potentially have a lot of unforgiveness. So the issue is a lot of times we don't identify that. We don't identify that really it's the hurt. It's the unforgiveness. You're not seeing that in our life. Oh, that word unforgiveness. I'm so glad you brought that up and you do also address that in your book. Like what a powerful thing it is for us to forgive the people, the person who hurt us that it truly is a key to setting us free. Can you just unpack that a little bit? Oh, yes. And I know forgiveness. We hear lots of messages around forgiveness and I'm not meaning to oversimplify it, but if you realize that you've been caring from past hurt or trauma in your life and it's been significant, maybe it's multiple traumas. Maybe there's been emotional abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse and that trauma has really affected you. We know early on that will alter brain chemistries. It'll change a lot of things and how our body is wired. And if we carry that throughout our life and it's never resolved, we may struggle with relationships, feeling intimate or close to others. We may feel like, you know what? I know you say God loves me, but I don't feel it. I just don't believe it's really true for me. You're going to feel unlovable. And so we need to come to a place. Now, forgiveness is a decision we make over and over sometimes that says I'm no longer going to allow the past to have that power in my life. And I'm making that decision so that I can be well. Forgiveness is so that I can be well. And I believe there's an intervention. There's a divine intervention in our lives that the Holy Spirit can do in a person's life that really sets me free from that. Dr. Jantz, a quick question here for you. As you're talking, I'm going back to Genesis. And I remember when Adam fell and he said, I was naked, I hid myself, and he started experiencing shame. And God said something really profound. He said, who told you that? So in your opinion, do you believe that shame is the product of words? Because you mentioned about feelings too. I feel a certain way. And most people don't understand. They'll say, I can't help the way I feel that feelings are the result of how we think. So how we think often makes us feel a certain way. And if shame is a feeling that we feel as a result of thoughts, is the only thing that can shift us out of shame is cognitively restructuring how we think according to God's word. We do need to change how we think. We do need to renew our minds. We need to have a system in our life that we're putting the truth in and the truth of God's word. It could be as simple as writing a truth on a three by five card. Remember the old-fashioned three by five cards? I know. And carrying it around and actually pulling one out of your pocket and saying a verse out loud two or three times a day or more. We've got to have a system of getting God's word back in to renew our mind. Now we also know that there's a divine intervention where God's, where the Holy Spirit comes in and really does a cleansing in our spirit. So we need address. We're going to do our part but remember we're going to ask God to intervene in our life as well. Now Dr. Greg, I love how you're just unpacking and sharing just tools that we can have to like overcome shame. Are there any other practical tools that we can do when it comes to shame? Because I know what happens is that we have these tools and then we get triggered. So what are some tools or something we can do when it comes to shame? Yes. Well sometimes we need to identify okay that's that's an issue for me and just deal with the reality that maybe I haven't had the complete healing. Maybe I am carrying around some hurt and bitterness. So we've got to have that kind of that honest conversation with ourselves first. And then we need to have some accountability. Sometimes it's going to a professional Christian and I underline Christian counselor who really understands how this can affect our lives. We need to practice self-care in a new way. When I say self-care I don't mean self-absorption. I don't mean social media and putting all the attention on yourself. When we practice self-care it means okay my body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. I'm going to begin to probably change how I care for myself even in my sleep. I'm going to care. I used to work in sleep research. I'm going to care about myself in my nutrition. I'm going to care in exercise. I'm going to begin to take care of myself even when I don't feel like I have value. I want you to practice some things. If that means I'm going to go out for a walk every day and I'm going to carry that 3x5 card with multiple verses and I'm going to say God's word out loud. We're going to move ourselves back as it says in 2 Timothy 1 7 that we don't have a spirit of fear but of power, underline power and love and a sound mind. So we're going to do our part to begin to create with God's out a sound mind. So that means I have to do some different things even when I don't feel like it. Yeah and so can you share sort of the reality of how hard this process is, how long it might take like is it something that a person can get free from quickly or do they need to like be ready for what's ahead? Well I think it's a huge learning process and God's going to just keep praying for wisdom and discernment. Lord God show me those things that I still need to address in my life and be willing to address those and so I always love having a journal and just allowing the time. It seems like to me if I'm practicing this and 30 days have passed and I'm also maybe there's some significant depression or anxiety. You know anxiety is the number one diagnosis right now in our country. Anxiety and so people are going through this in record rates and maybe depression that's number two. Those have had a strong hold in your life and you need to address those. Maybe the root cause is shame issues and so be willing to address those things that you've suffered from for a long time but give it time. So I think 30 days, 60 days, 90 days. I'd love to see folks pass that 90 day mark of practicing some new skills and really just allowing God to speak into your life which means sometimes we have to slow down and listen. Right yeah I feel like in our culture we're so used to this idea of a quick fix like the fast results but our wellness, our deep healing really is something that happens over time and 90 days like that's just such a great number because it's not necessarily like seven days or 21 but you got to give yourself time to start seeing that difference. Another part the thing that you addressed in your book that just personally really appreciated was about body shaming, eating disorders and all the shame that can come from like social media. I have two teenage daughters. I also have a friend in her 30s that I know is battling an eating disorder so can you just touch on body shaming and how we can start to make that shift? I'm so glad Anna that you brought this up. It's so important and so many folks particularly we're seeing a new reassurgence of eating disorders and body image issues and there's a lot of just issues around confusion and gender confusion and when we look at this and we look at what social media is doing to you know there is a digital addiction out there and social media the more time we spend in it and this is an area that I've looked at quite a lot the more you spend in social media if you're already depressed you're going to be more depressed so that's the way it works. Now body image, body shaming that usually comes from comparisons it usually comes from well you know you don't look as good as you could you need to lose some weight we you know we're getting messages we're getting messages that were never quite good enough so we're seeing in my my career actually started in the field of eating disorders it was my first book I wrote on eating disorders because we have to look at this differently if we're going to have long-term recovery the body image shaming is a big issue right now and it's teaching our teenagers and our girls I'm going to include boys in this that they're not good enough the kind didn't design them right and we know that so much what you see in social media by the way it's distorted we've filtered we always look our best in social media and it's a distortion of reality. Yeah absolutely it's so important to just keep speaking out truth I know you said there's only like five percent of the population that has that ideal body and so truth is empowerment education therapy is all empowerment so Dr. Gray we have just one minute left in our time with you can you speak to the person at home that is just really feeling down held down by shame and if you're feeling down by shame I want you to know there really is hope hope comes when there's a plan and today make a decision I'm going to do whatever it takes over whatever amount of time with God's help my life will change and I want you to claim that promise I know the depths of despair of depression can be great or anxiety and fear has that stronghold and it's frozen you and you feel like there is no hope I want to speak the truth of hope because we know in Jeremiah twenty nine eleven it's our theme verse that you got has plans for you and they're good and you have a future of hope let's make some decisions today and get whatever help I need so that I can change the direction of my life yes amen well doctor greg jance thank you so much for sharing some of your time with us your book again is freedom from shame find healing for your most toxic emotion it's been great having you here good to be with you today all right well we've got more hope today and a time of just bringing God's word to you so stay with us we'll be right back when Laura called our 24 7 prayer line she had so much fear that she didn't want to leave her house she had lost her husband of 54 years just six months earlier Laura was flipping through tv stations when she came across cornerstone television she felt compelled to call one of our prayer partners talked listened and prayed with her for 45 minutes at the end Laura said how much the ministry had helped relieve her fear praise God for how he's using ctvn when you give you become part of what he's doing this month when you give we'll send wild expectance is our way of saying thank you this book will inspire you to live your life as God intended to give and request your copy visit us online at ctvn.org slash donate or call us at 888-665-4483 hope happens here well if you've been joining in with us we've just been giving an expose on the spirit of shame and i believe that there are people right now getting free we're just talking right here on the set about how we're just jumping in on the therapy session and God wants you to be free and realizing this shame always has with it words and the only way that we can defeat that is by going to the word of God and so we always like to give you a scripture second timothy chapter number one verse number seven very familiar passage of scripture for God has not given us the spirit of timidity but gives us what power love and self-discipline you know as you were talking as you were talking as we were talking i just really felt that so strong there are a lot of people that are battling with thoughts in their minds and we claim them as our own and they're all based out of fear the only way you can get free from shame fear and all of those things is to realize you have power and i think the most important thing is that you have love if you have love and you have power you can always have the self-discipline sound mind that you need to have you know something when you're just saying that just reminds me of like something you know my my therapy session i remember my therapist one time she said it's like all about reclaiming your agency like getting your power back and that is rooted in christ and so first it's like you have to recognize there's an issue and not being self-denialed like everything's okay and put on a mask god wants us to take off the mask to surrender to him and be like you know what god i recognize there's a problem i recognize there's an issue i recognize some things off in me and then when you seek him he can speak to you give you a download and direction so it is getting help i'm such a big i know we're huge advocates here at hopes today about therapy you know finding somebody that can help give you those tools like just what dr gregg i mean he was unpacking so much i was telling anna and jay i was like i feel like we were in a therapy session so thank you dr gregg like i just felt like i was just soaking it up and i loved one thing he said was so powerful and this is something that i actually just started doing you know in my life again is this journaling just taking that time to write out my thoughts to jot it down to process what's happening in my day and then i like have a like i want i like i'm a little corny it's like i love journals but i bought like for myself for my birthday of two journals and it was like one that said walk by faith and not by sight so i just write any of my thoughts like a stream of consciousness and then the other one is like um something about imagination but i just really just take that time to just seek the lord and be like god what are you speaking what are you saying and it has been so helpful so just want to encourage you that today is like that's that's self love and that self care of just connecting with the father connecting to the holy spirit allowing him to guide but also having this community around you to support you in those times when you need it most yeah absolutely such a good practical tip to bring awareness and you know the first part of that scripture says that we have not been given a spirit of timidity or in other translations it's fear and how many of us can so identify with how fear that timidity has held us back kept us living this small life when god's word says that he knows the plans he has for you plans to prosper you and not to harm you plans to give you a hope and a future he gives us his whole word full of promises because we are his chosen people the redeemed ones and yet we sit around feeling like oh but i'm still not good enough and we let that shame and hopelessness just keep cutting us down and keep us living this small life i mean it's important to know that the enemy is behind that and jesus is ready to set you free like pastor jay that was saying like jesus took it all on himself so understand that when jesus went to the cross for you he took on your shame your sin your guilt the anxiety depression and he took it all to the grave buried it in the ground once and for all and when jesus came back to life it was just jesus that came back to life he left all that garbage in the ground and when you accept jesus as your lord and savior he lets a new spirit come inside of you of power love and a sound mind he has set you free and he wants you to stop sitting in the ashes of your sin because you are now a new creation in christ and he's saying come on come live this life that i created you to live that's what i think it's so important that we are aware of what we're thinking i love what you shared sydney in regards that's why journaling is so important there's many things and i feel like there's people watching right now you're living self-defeated because you have self-defeated thoughts just like anna was talking if you're willing to receive christ into your heart when you get up out of the grave god didn't just put some fresh little makeup on you and cover you over he made you a brand new you the bop says old things are passed away all has become new and when you receive him into your heart you have to begin to renew your mind with those such you have to first be able to expose those lies that satan has spoken read genesis chapter three where adam when he felt god came to him after satan had lied to him about shame and he said to him he said who told you that there's a lot of things you're believing right now that aren't of god and if you'll begin to get into his word renew your mind the truth will set you free sydney oh this is so so good i feel like this has been a whole therapy session today and i'm just so grateful for it because i think it's so important and i just like i know we are just so grateful for a cornerstone television network just making a platform making a space that we can bring this truth to you the truth of god's word the truth of what's happening so that you can be all he has called you to be and i just want to say is just like from our hearts is that i know what it's like to deal with shame i know what it's like to be in that place of isolation i know what it's like to have those intrusive thoughts that just don't stop but you know something you got to start doing talk back to it be like no i am a child of god i am the head and not the tail when you start to clear things over yourself and you expose the lie of shame it changes your whole trajectory and i know that there's an also scripture and i say is it 61 i did 61 is i 61 is that he gives instead of your shame is going to give you double double honor so we declare that over you today then instead of your shame that through the power of jesus double honor through him and that's the greatest hope that we have