 Hi. You're watching Life in the Law. I'm Marianne Sasaki. You can see us on Wednesday between one hot legal and political issues as we are going to this week with my favorite guest, hands down, Jay Fidel. Welcome, Jay. Hi, Marianne. You know how much I love having you as a guest. And today we're going to talk about what the, we're going to talk about Russia and Donald Trump, but in a larger sense, the great unraveling of America, I don't know, America, the nightmare of American politics. I mean, I think it's starting to dawn on people now, right? Well, you know, all things considered, trying to put all political biases aside, do you think that Russia has our best interests in mind? No. They set him up. I mean, that's what they did. They set him up as a patsy and they probably played to his weakest suit, which is his ego. And so that's why he thinks Putin is such a great man, such a great leader, because people treat Putin like he's, well, like he's a dictator because he's sort of what he is, a dictator, right? So the Russians understood something about Trump. Maybe they understood something about Trump. We didn't even understand about Trump. The way to manipulate him is through his ego. Yeah, well, I think they do have dossiers on people, and I'm convinced they have a dossier on Trump, and the dossier first examines who he is and what he's like and what his foibles are, and then, of course, they try to get dirt on him so that they can manipulate him in a larger sense. But he said he wasn't involved. His business wasn't deeply involved in Russian business. And the dossier says that he isn't meshed in Russian businesses. And, well, this is something we were talking about earlier. How do you deal with a president who just is not straight with you, who just doesn't tell you the truth and stands by it, doesn't really bother him that he says conflicting sentences? Before I answer that, I'd like to tell you there are a lot of people out there, including here in Hawaii. When did I read some? 30% of the people in Hawaii, the electorate actually, who voted voted for him. That's really amazing. There are a lot of people that you and I know who believe him. They do not come to the conclusion that he is lying. He says things that are opposite each other. Like, you know, we're going to build a wall. Mexico is going to pay for it. Now, Mexico says they're not going to pay for it. And he says we're going to make Mexico pay for it. I don't know. He just, he makes these wild assertions. I'm with you. I mean, I agree that he hasn't been telling us the truth during this campaign, and that's a lot of time, too much time. But there are people who believe him and find a way to rationalize the way he rationalizes all these inconsistencies. Okay, we let the first billionaire to be president of the United States. He didn't even give the public his tax returns. Every other presidential candidate had. There was a new theory about that. What's the new theory? Hillary's theory was that if you looked at his tax returns, you'd find, oh, I forget what it was. He really didn't make any money. He had so many deductions that he didn't pay any tax. That was her theory. And she had other theories, too. But the theory that she didn't have, which is now only surfacing, is that he had a lot of business income coming out of Russia. And, of course, the Russian government has something to say about that. And I think it was his son who spoke in 2008 and said that there was a very substantial amount, if not a plurality of the income that he was receiving was coming from Russia. So I think the theory that's been discussed in the media, and boy, it's hard to not hear it, you know, I mean, and it's hard not to believe it, actually, is the theory is that that he doesn't want to reveal his tax returns because it will reveal his connections with Russia, which are Formidab and have been going on a long time and explain his strange relationship with Putin and some of the statements that he's made lately. Right. And even, you know, frankly, his choice of Rex Tillerson. I mean, I think there's no bigger businessman that's a bigger friend of Russia than Rex Tillerson. I was watching his confirmation hearings and he's had, he's had relationships with so many countries that we've sanctioned over the years. He just doesn't seem to be playing by American, like rules. He's above, he's above the countries, right? He's playing on some other geopolitical, yeah. Right, level. See themselves as above countries. They avoid tax in one country by going to another country, which is interesting because then Trump would give him a tax break even though he really doesn't need a tax break. And in fact, what I heard recently is that Tillerson received some kind of people's medal in Russia. He did, from Putin. Yeah, he did. Like the best friend of Russia, like a very dear friend of Russia. For some joint project they did in fossil fuels where they partnered in extracting fossil fuels and that helped Exxon and it helped Russia. Well, there's plenty of footage of him and Putin sort of yucking it up and talking convivially with each other and, you know, considering the revelations of yesterday and this morning that the intelligence agencies thought that it was so significant that they gave it to both the president and the president-elect and the daily briefing report. I mean, that kind of stuff doesn't happen. We think Russia has sunk its tentacles into Donald Trump and has been doing so for many years and has a lot of information, some of it pornographic or dirty or some of it just dirty business and they could control our president by virtue of this information. Well, it's coming out that way. Of course, let's talk about BuzzFeed. Let's talk about the memo from MI5. Why don't you discuss that? Well, the memo from MI5, which I just perused briefly, indicated that- Well, it didn't BuzzFeed, by the way. If you want to read the memo, go to BuzzFeed.com. They're the only pub, the only media that had the chutzpah to actually publish it. Everybody else said, oh, it hasn't been verified and qualified, so they didn't publish it, not yet anyway. But BuzzFeed had the chutzpah. Well, the only qualifying thing I would say is that I understand that the genesis of this memorandum was counter-operations in the Republican Party itself, like somebody in the Republican Party commissioned some kind of report and somehow MI5 got a hold of the information that they had been commissioning. But anyway, so the upshot is that for the past five years, Russia has been compiling a secret dossier on Donald Trump, and in it it has his business dealings within Russia. It has certain meetings he's had, promises he's made, certain sexual, embarrassing sexual information, and it's very difficult. By the way, those could easily have been Russian provocations. Well, that's what I was going to say. There's a Russian word for that. It's called like matzakarok, disinformation. Well, but standard operating procedures to provide a girl who somehow subverts you in a hotel room, and somebody has a camera taking pictures, and now it's in the dossier. It didn't happen by accident. It was not an afterthought, it was a forethought. That's what happens in Russia. Well, that's the country that Donald Trump is enmeshed in, his business dealings are enmeshed in that country. And moreover, he's still going to have connections with those businesses because this morning in his press conference he said he was turning over the reins of the business to his two sons. And he said, just like Rex Tillerson said, he never discussed Russia with the president-elect, the president-elect said he's never going to discuss his businesses with his two sons ever. I'm right, but let me add to that. To maintain a firewall. Up till now they discuss those businesses every day. I would imagine. They work together on a very close basis every day. Exactly. So all of a sudden there's a sort of Chinese wall there saying, oh no, we can't discuss that. So don't talk to me about it. Right. Can you, can you believe that? I can't believe that. I don't believe it. I don't believe it. And I don't believe the American public, well, he had a lawyer on, did you see the lawyer speaking for, like probably ten minutes sort of, defending him and saying why it wasn't a violation of the M. O. William's clause, which is taking benefits, yeah. And apparently they think the presidency is a part from any other agency. In any other agency you can't, you can't have personal dealings to your benefit outside of your agency. You can't hire relatives, for example, but, but the presidency there's no explicit language. It's not an agency. Yeah, it's not. The law says. Right, there's no explicit language and it's an agency even though it's treated like an agency. But they're saying this is all one, one place. But the agencies are part of the executive branch. So I don't see how, you know, it, if you've ever studied administrative law, you know that agencies are part of the executive branch. They don't fit in with Congress. It's a cute interpretation. But there are those who, who, who believe that. There are lawyers who believe that. Oh yeah, there was this lawyer today. What Trump, what Trump pretends to do here is not violate the emoluments. Right, right, right. But I do not see why people aren't shaking their fists and asking more questions and wanting more information. Like, I mean, how could they believe that he's, he's not going to be involved in this business that he built with his sons over time. I mean, he's clearly not engaged in global politics in the way that President Obama was. He doesn't understand the nuances of global politics, nor does he understand the nuances of domestic politics. So he only understands business. I mean, that's, that's the only thing I've ever really seen him address. Have you ever seen him address really domestic problems, solutions to domestic problems other than we're going to overturn Obamacare? No, he doesn't have a solution. I think he's lived in a very narrow world of his own making. But what's interesting here, to take it from that point of view is that, you know, you have geopolitics, you have politics, you have diplomacy. That's one world. And then you have business. Yeah. That's another world. Total other world. multinational corporations like Tillerson. And that's a different world. I have to think now, we have to distinguish those two worlds. So you can be, you know, knowledgeable about one doesn't necessarily mean you're knowledgeable about the other. But, but Trump sold the American public on the idea that country is a big business and it needs a big business man to run it. I mean, but it isn't governing is not like business. Governing has, it's, it has a more elevated purpose than business. But it's a seductive argument, isn't it? You know, I know, I know business. I've been successful at business. I can't deal with these people. I have the negotiating skills to go out and deal with any country. And frankly, what the diplomacy needs is more candid negotiating skills. And I can deliver that. And I think a lot of people bought that. Well, I think that proof is will be in the pudding. I think Rex Tillerson particularly, because he was willing to violate U.S. sanctions by going through other countries who did not have sanctions. Like he did business with Iran. So I don't know how he's going to negotiate with Iran. It could be the, it's the sort of wild card in the Middle East, right? It's a huge country, very powerful. We never quite know, quite have them under control. We have a numerous diplomatic attempts at keeping them under control. And I don't see how Rex Tillerson can just go, what is he going to go in and shake the hands of the, you know, the hands? Maybe so. Maybe he'll rely on those old relationships and try to approach this on a business basis and bypass what he considers the irrelevance of diplomacy. But I, you know, I don't think that's going to work. Let's look at Russia for a minute, though. You wanted to talk about Russia. That's why you wore the red, red dress. Yeah. Well, we, well, why don't we take a quick break and then we can talk about it later. Let's talk about your red dress during the break. Don't, let's not talk about my red dress. We'll be back in a minute. Hi, I'm Chris Leetham with The Economy and You. And I'd like to invite you each week to come watch my show each Wednesday at 3 p.m. Thank you for watching Think Tech. I'm Grace Chang, the new host for Global Connections. You can find me here live every Thursday at 1 p.m. Where we'll be talking to people around the islands or visiting the islands who are connected in various aspects of global affairs. So please tune in and Aloha and thanks for watching. Aloha. I'm Reg Baker, the host of Business in Hawaii, the broadcast live every Thursday from 2 to 230. Today we were very fortunate enough to have Dr. Miller and her service dog, Muffin. We talked about the ADA and we covered some of the different do's and don'ts of having service dogs in your establishment and how to sniff out the fakes. Please tune in for Business in Hawaii on Thursday to find out all about service dogs. Aloha. Hi, I'm Mary Ann Sasaki and we're discussing Russia with Jay Fidel. Jay convinced I'm wearing a red dress in solidarity, but I'm not. I just like the color red and it's festive. So we're talking about Putin. What drives Putin and what's going on in Russia? What's happening? I mean, they're not a world power anymore. You can't say they're a world power. And they're not, for that matter, a successful economic power either. No. But it reminds me of Germany after World War I. They were put down. They lost face, you know, in World War I and likewise in the loss of the Soviet Union. They lost face. And I think Putin's biggest calling card domestically with his own people is to say, I'll give you face. I'll make Russia a world power again. You know, I'll make Russia great again. Right. There's a parody there, right? Yeah, but he's doing it. And how is he doing it? He's doing it geopolitically. Right. You know, when he goes in and takes over, you know, Russian speaking areas in Odessa, he's making the people in Russia feel like this is a good old day. Right. When he does that in Ukraine, making them feel like good old days. USSR, right. And then he, you know, sort of takes pieces out of the NATO countries and the Baltics now, which he's doing it, and they're afraid. And he's attacking them with cyberterrorism on a regular basis. They should be afraid. They should be afraid. Because he's acquisitive. Yeah. It is a lot like Germany after World War I, sort of bite by bite taking countries that are sort of vulnerable, near you invulnerable, right? And making people in Russia feel that they can achieve the same level of togetherness of global power that they had before. And this drives, I think, a country. It makes, in any event, it makes him more powerful. It makes him more powerful. I don't know how much the average Russian really yearns for the good old days of a United USSR, United Soviet Union. He's got no contender. There's nobody who stands up to him. There's no rival. But he kills people. I mean, he kills his enemies. Yes, he does. So, I mean, that could be a reason. He kills journalists who disagree with him. Yes. Remember that guy in London? Yeah. Oh, that was awful. It was awful. Radioactive cocktail. Right. Oh, that was awful. It was something that everybody knows it's him. Everybody knows. And everybody knows that what Putin reports as his income from his job is not his real income. He's one of the wealthiest men in the world. I'm sure. I'm sure he has very close relationships with all of the Russian oligarchs. I mean, how could they operate if they didn't operate in tandem? He makes them, they make him. Right, exactly. It's sort of like Tillerson and Trump. Yes, it is. You know, the same thought. You know, he has these relationships with the oligarchs. He has relationships with the big boys, with Tillerson and with Trump. It's the big boys club. Right. The billionaires, it's not, being a millionaire is not enough anymore. You have to have billions and billions of dollars so that nobody could really, realistically make that sort of money during their lifetime. So it was a very smart thing for him to do, to respond to Obama's sanctions by imposing no sanctions. That was clever. Trump was right to say that was clever. Right. He's a very clever guy. Oh, he's clever. I wouldn't say that he's not. The question is whether he's more clever than Trump is. And I think my answer is yes. I think so. I think so. I think, you know, you grew up in Russia particularly as the country is falling apart. I think, I don't know if clever. I definitely think there's a certain survival instinct. I have a friend that lives in Russia and he never tires of telling stories about, you know, the survival instinct of Russians, of individual Russians, and the lengths they will go to prevail. And I think it's something we may not even understand here. But I think that Putin will go to any lengths to prevail, any at all. I don't know that Trump would. Clearly, really dastardly, yes. Exactly. I think Trump, in a sense, is a little bit naive when it comes to Putin. Well, you know, I think part of Putin's agenda, not only to aggrandize his own position and Russia's power or refound rediscovered power, but also to make the U.S. look bad. I mean, both of those things happening at the same time. Right. And he has effectively done that in Syria, don't you think? Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. He stepped in when we did and he's in control now of the situation. Yeah. I mean, I read recently that we had planes flying up there, apparently contending or competing with the Russian fighter jets. Right. Oh, that's really eerie. It's familiar. There's a possibility of an incident any second. You know, I have to tell you, I think it's much eerier for people like us than I think there's a whole generation that just didn't grow up with the threat of Russia, the omnipresent threat of nuclear war with Russia. Duck and cover. Yeah, duck and cover. Duck and cover, yeah. And I think that they may not understand the significance of a country having an arsenal of nuclear weapons and a bone to pick. You know, it's a very, it's deadly, deadly on the precipice situation. And we knew it. We lived with it every day in the 60s, mid-70s maybe. When did that go away? But with Reagan it went away. That could be really mean. I mean, we had a moment of light with Yeltsin. Who's that? Gorbachev. Gorbachev after him. In fact, the Clintons were friendly. Gorbachev was, I think, a brilliant leader of the 20th century. I mean, he tried to do the right thing. Yeltsin was an alcoholic. Yeah. Sorry. There's a story about how he was actually a house guest at the White House in the Clinton years, and he got drunk and went out in the street looking for a pizza parlor. And wandering down the street drunk looking for a pizza parlor. They found him and brought him out. That's so funny. That's really funny. Well, let's talk about cyber-terrorism because that's part of Yeltsin's MO here. I mean, he says that, what was the, it was a great comment. War is peace without the blood. And peace, wait, I got it backwards. But war and peace are the same. You're always at war, even in peacetime. Peace is war without the blood. Peace is war without the blood. But it's always that competition. It's always that aggressive motivation. And cyber war fits right in. You know, there have been several articles about his efforts these days right now to achieve a huge army bigger than the cyber war, you know, part of the Pentagon. A huge army of cyber warriors and terrorists and like, and he gets them from the students, from the schools, he gets them from the industry, and he gets them from the criminals in jail. And he puts them all together. They're all around the country, all, you know, coordinated in order to do cyber-terrorism. It's kind of extraordinary because, so you have a country that doesn't really have the power it used to have. How do you make an influential, you know, an influential power? Cyber-terrorism is perfect. Bring the other guy down. Exactly. That's what you do. Exactly. You have a cadre of guerrilla, basically guerrilla fighters, but they're fighting on the online and through the internet or however they do it. And you can cause a lot more damage than your, you know, relatively disempowered country can cause if they invaded a big country. So we are now in a war, I think. And it's a war of deterrence. It's a war where we know he can do bad things. He knows we can do bad things. Who's to say which one is better? Frankly, I think he's better right now. And so nobody does really drastic things. But that could happen any time. Right. Proportional response. But proportional response. I mean, that's sort of a stopgap measure, right? I mean... I think, but you have to build that whole thing about cyber war in to look at what Putin really is and what he's after. It's not defensive what he's doing. Oh, yeah. It's aggressive what he's doing. It's aggressive. Yeah, absolutely. And getting dossiers on American politicians and hacking, having his people. No question that happened, in my mind. No, there is the FBI says it happened. Yeah, right. Hacking Clinton and then using it and manipulating an election. It's very aggressive stuff. Deny, deny, deny that aggression. Because Putin has something on him. That's my... You really think so? He actually has a genuine... Yeah. Yeah, I think Putin could have brought him down. But Putin wanted him to be in this office because he felt... Putin felt that he had a friend in or could have a friend in Trump. Right. And so it builds his power. Well, Trump has been acting like a friend that he won't, you know, he won't denounce the... One of the things he said recently was there's no reason why we can't be friendly with Russia. Right. I am going to forge a new relationship with Russia and you're really going to like it. Right. Really, do you think so? Do you think that's possible? Yeah. Russia, I mean, such a... So, you're right. So aggressive. Such an aggress... You know, aggressor. But I think a lot of people maybe don't... Citizens don't understand the nature of the aggression and how powerful it is. I mean, there's no boys going to... You know, there's no physical manifestation of cyber warfare, right? Right. So... They don't understand. It's very esoteric, right? And so they did something with... Did they... Hillary Clinton? Did they harm her chances in some way? But, you know, they did it very programmatically. You know, leaked information about Hillary Clinton in a very programmatic or, you know, organized way. And they, you know... Yeah. Now, the other thing that... You needed general... He's trying to forge a new relationship with China. Back when, in the days of the Soviet Union and communism, there was, you know, quite a relationship between Russia and China. I mean, I think it was uncomfortable in some ways, but they were aligned in some way. Yeah, certainly. Okay. And I think Putin is trying to bring that back. And I think there are, you know, new connections between Russia and China right now. And Xi Jinping is probably happy with that because he's not happy with you know who. Yes. I agree with that. I couldn't agree with that more. But I'd say, with respect to Putin, he better tread very lightly in his relationships with China because the... If there is going to be somebody who will emerge as a world-dominating force, my money's on China. So, you know, he won't be able to manipulate China the way he has been Donald Trump. Oh, I agree. I agree. China's at the top of the heap when you're talking about acumen in geopolitical rumors. Absolutely. Absolutely. And they're in Taiwan Straits now. They put their carrier, the one carrier in Taiwan Straits, which is a direct response to that telephone call from Taiwan. Right, right. So... They're very clear about their objectives. They're not obscure about their objectives. When they're disturbed, they respond. Right. He woke them up. Yeah, he woke them up. The sleeping tiger. Right. And even sometimes when they're not disturbed, they think about it. But you know the most significant thing about China now, in my mind, and I'm kind of looking at this from a business point of view, they put the railroad in. You know, the railroad that goes from Beijing to Western Europe, one track all the way. It makes Dr. Zhivago look light. This is a serious freight railroad line all the way across the continent there, following the Silk Road. Maybe parts of it are in Russia. And they are going to deliver manufactured goods all over Europe now. So that's total control. That's total control. It's tremendous economic leverage. Well, it's what happened to the United States. It's what decimated American jobs, right? Jay, we're coming to our time. I hate that. I know. I want to go on, Mary Ann. I know. On and on. Yeah. But it's been a wonderful conversation. I appreciate your helping in coming on in. And you're watching Life in the Law. I'm Mary Ann. Happy Tuning. Think that Wednesday is 1 to 1.30.