 بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته أخبار أخبار أخبار ومجتمعين أتبعكم في أخر أساسي للملندن مع أخبارنا أستيمتنا سيد أموان أكشواني حول هذه العام نحن نحن نسأل مجموعة مثل إيد الفتر قبل عام القدير في شوة أجهزة في فردة إذا كانوا من شوة وإن شاء الله في هذا الأن سننقل أيد المباهلة ومشاهدة في العالم إذا كانت مع أخبارنا أو أخبارنا أو أخبارنا now the event of مباهلة is one commonly known as the interaction or debate that took place between the Holy Prophet and his Holy Family peace and blessings be upon them all and the Christians of Najran السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته سيدنا وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله it's a great honor to have you on our show again thank you very much given that this Eid is an interaction between the Muslims and Christians are there any other examples from the Holy Quran that this sort of event has taken place before there are bound to be examples in the Holy Quran of Christian-Muslim interaction simply because of the fact that you've got two religions which share a common message share common values are really in and around a few hundred years of one another and the births are seen as being within five to six hundred years of one another and there's bound to therefore be a number of references in the Holy Quran to the Christians or to those who had helped the message of Christ as an example for the nascent Muslim community let's say in Mecca or in Medin at the time if you're looking within the Holy Quran I think it's vital that Muslims are aware of the interactions between the Christian community and the early Muslim community as well as the interactions that can be seen within the Holy Quran where you find the Holy Prophet Muhammad peace be upon his family in a way using examples from the lives either of Christ or the life of Mary or using examples of a group of believers who also found it very difficult in the early days to hold on to the message of God you notice that in the early Islam you've got this situation where the companions are finding great difficulty with the oppression of the Meccan aristocrats and so what we see is that there's a reference back to the companions or the disciples of Christ for example who were also finding difficulties in their time so if you look at let's say the story of كهف you've got the seven sleepers of Ephesias as it's known in Christian literature a group of youth who are believers in the oneness of God believers in Christ and the message of the prophets that have preceded Christ and you've got their story being mentioned they're oppressed, they need to leave but because they have faith the Quran mentions that Allah guided them so that's a very beautiful story of a group of Christ's lovers a group of Christ's believers who the Quran wants to praise then you have for example the disciples of Christ when they go to the land of Antioch with the famous verses you've got two of the disciples being sent to that land a third disciple is sent so again you've got a reference back to the disciples of Christ then you have for example general verses about Christianity and these general verses for example could be found in let's say in Surat Al-Ma'ida for example verse 82 when the Quran says you'll see the closest people to you in reciprocal love are the Christians because they have priests and they have monks who are humble human beings and then you have a reference to the persecution that the Christian community faces as can be seen for example in Surat Al-Borouj أصحاب الخدود are a group of people who had to face the ditches and be burnt in what was a holocaust the Jewish community had burnt the Christian community under the leadership of Yusuf Bin Dinoas الحميري they had burnt the Christian community you know is the origin of the word holocaust and it means complete burning and they had completely burnt these people they burnt their children they burnt their wives and these people one of the safe havens they found later on would be the land of Najran so in that border of Yemen Saudi Arabia these people would find a safe haven holding on to Christianity you've got the general terminology أهل الكتاب which is mentioned in the Quran and it's notice one notices أهل الكتاب the people of the book one would think it should be for example why is it not أهل الكتب why is it أهل الكتاب so when the Quran says قلي أهل الكتاب تعالوا why isn't the Quran not saying قلي أهل الكتب because we have the Torah and the Injeel and the Quran should be the people of the books but it's as if Allah SWT saying that your message is all one message from the heavens it's the same message and it's a submission to the Lord so you've got all of these wonderful examples and مباهلة is another one another of the examples of that Christian-Muslim interaction that takes place and the theological discussions that occur within the year when I was researching this topic in the morning the year that مباهلة actually took place is أهل الكتب أهل الكتب why does that have a name for the year why isn't it just a number like 10th after Hijra for example well yeah it's 9th after Hijra when it took place but Arabs to that point were naming their years after the most notable event that's taken place so for example if I were to ask you what was that notable event named after an animal in the Quran where you had an army that came to attack Mecca that was so the عام would be called عام الفيل the year of the elephant you're not exactly going to be at that time saying 570 and 620 and 621 and 61 and so on of course later on with the beginning of the Muslim calendar then you've got this dating that begins after Hijra whereas up to that point you've got the years and what's happening is that the year is named after the most notable event so for example if Abraha and his army have attacked Mecca at that point it's called the year of the elephant and that year was called the year of the delegations the year when Mubahallah took place was known as the year of the delegations the reason it was known as the year of the delegations was because there were now many delegations that finally wanted to come and visit and meet the Holy Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and his family from all different backgrounds rich, poor, educated, non-educated Arab, non-Arab, Muslim, non-Muslim to finally get a glimpse of what exactly his ideas are after years of propaganda against him so if they came to visit him I'm assuming Mecca and Medina did they become like a central hub for Islam back then is that why they would come to these cities well the context of what's taking place at this time is that he is now virtually got control of Mecca and Medina it was only a few years earlier to enter Mecca for a few days was a difficult was a difficult idea for many of the Muslims as in the Hudaybiya Treaty had sought to somehow build relations between the Muslim community in Medina and the Qoraysh-Ela'it until the opening of Mecca took place a couple of years later the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is powerful in Medina but now he has Mecca and Medina under his belt and when he has Mecca and Medina under his belt what we find is that there are lots of tribes and lots of people who for years have had misconceptions about the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon his family you may have people who even are viewing the show who may not necessarily be Muslim but I've heard propaganda against the Holy Prophet trying to vilify his image and sometimes what you want to do is you want to actually go and meet people who know about the man and in those days you could actually go and you could actually go and meet the man himself you can go to the Holy Prophet peace be upon him his family and maybe you've heard Islam is a religion of X, Y, Z well go to the Holy Prophet Muhammad peace be upon his family and ask him so what you had is that delegation after delegation you wanted to go and meet him and if you look at the way some of these Arabs were coming to meet him and to talk to him it was extremely interesting you've got for example someone who came to meet the Holy Prophet peace be upon his family he said to him what do you think about sheep he said to him what do you think about camels and he's like well they're a creation of God and then he asks the Prophet Muhammad he says to him do you trust this to be observed and he's like sounds like a cool religion to me I'll join it there were people who were that basic they just wanted to do his ethical principles do they accord with my ethical principles then there were others for example who wanted to join Islam wanted to become Muslims but not wholeheartedly and for example there were those who came to visit him who said we'll be Muslim we'll pray we'll fast but we've still got one idol like that tree over there do you mind if we just visit like once a week there were others who for example would say we pray we fast but do you mind if we have the odd drink once a month and Islam one of its meanings is submitting wholeheartedly to God and not picking and choosing which parts of the religion you want to submit to I remember جابر has a discussion with Imam Ali جابر sees this dream where there's a piece of cloth hanging from the sky people were taking parts of the cloth and leaving others Imam Ali says to him that Muslims will take part of the religion that suits them and the parts that don't suit them they'll leave today this is similar to what was happening in عامل وفود in the year of the delegations when the mobile took place 9th year after Hijrah that the Muslims those who wanted to become Muslims were now saying well there's parts of Islam that we'll observe and other parts which you're not ready for you're not going to make us observe now someone sometimes throws the argument there's no compulsion in religion so you can't force me to observe something I'm not ready for yes I've heard people say this that you can't force me to observe something I'm not ready for there's no compulsion in religion when it comes to the principles of the religion I can't force you to believe in توحيد I can't force you to believe in نبوه I can't force you to believe in for example one of the usul of the metheb of al-Muhammad I can't force you to believe in it I can certainly give you the guidelines I can't however the moment you submit to those principles the moment you accept them you have to submit to the laws of the religion a person cannot turn around and say I'm not ready to do so and so you know we have people in our community who will say for example about certain acts of worship they'll say blatantly that I'm not ready to do this act and you'll say but hold on you're disobeying Allah in the process they'll say well you know when I'm ready when I feel it then I'll do it or once I get married is an example or once I get married for example and so on so what was happening is you got these you've also got then for example علي الأكبر علي الأكبر عليه السلام his great-grandfather from his mother was was and had come and when he had come he had come to visit the Holy Prophet peace be upon his family on behalf of the people of Thaqeef are two brutal Arab tribes you don't want to face and they were the most vicious of opponents but is the master of all warriors and annihilates them but what you have is that he's the head of the people of Thaqeef and he now comes to meet the Holy Prophet peace be upon his family and he's enamored by the Holy Prophet and who would have thought at that meeting that one day that man's great grand-daughter is going to marry that man's grandson because Imam al-Hussein عليه السلام later marries Layla who's the daughter of Maymuna daughter of Abimura Layla the daughter of Maymuna and she is the grand-daughter of And so what you have there is he tells he goes back to them now you've made rumors about this man for ages you've hated him for ages I've gone to meet him and the man's the best of men and a man who's bought a religion the principles of which are going to guide us and sadly his community ended up killing him and that's why Thaqeef is compared to the Mu'min of Ali-Asin who came from the furthest part of the city to guide his own people so you've got all of these delegations that are coming one after the other they're all wanting to meet the Holy Prophet Muhammad and now naturally one of the most important delegations that's going to come is the delegation of other religions these people let's say Arab Bedouin or some cases polytheist whatever how about the other religions and now you find that members of the other religions are slowly going to come towards Medina to try and find out who is this man who claims that he's the messenger of God so regarding the as an example the Christians of Najran you mentioned they went through a holocaust they took refuge in Najran what made them come to meet the Holy Prophet did they not have churches where they were or did Islam not allow them to have churches well when they came they came to meet the Holy Prophet peace be upon him and his family they had one phenomenal church in Najran and it was called Ka'bat Najran in the same way the Ka'ba you know in Mecca is the central place of worship they've got this phenomenal church known as the Ka'ba of Najran and they're worshipping in that church you know they've got 73 different you know type of tribes who are living in that area 40,000 visitors towards that church coming from far and wide so they were practicing Christianity practicing Christianity comfortably but now they know there's a man who heads the state a man who Madinah's his, Mecca's his and they feel that they have to go and discuss with him does this man know anything about Moses does he know anything about Christ does he know anything about Jacob or Joseph you know many times as Muslims when we talk about the Holy Prophet peace be upon his family one of the biggest mistakes we make is separating the discussion about him from the other prophets who preceded him what then happens is we make the Prophet Muhammad sound like an Arab random guy who emerges without letting the world know this is one of the great grandchildren of Ishmael this isn't a random who's just popped out nowhere this person who's raised the nobility in the sense of he comes from ancestors who are the most renowned and the most noble so the Christian community hitherto that point they've got their church and the Prophet Muhammad is also when he first enters Madinah one of the main reasons why he is ordered to defend the land of Madinah from the attack of Abu Sofyan and the henchmen of the Meccan aristocrats and chapter 22 verse 39 to 41 if it wasn't for us telling the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon his family to defend himself there wouldn't be a single church or monastery or synagogue or mosque it's a shame if there's a Muslim country where there's no churches in the absence of an infallible let's say in Shia theology it's a shame if there is a country that claims to be a Muslim majority country that does not allow the Christian community to worship so some of these Christians never met the Prophet Muhammad in their life had been happily living where they were living but now decided that you know what let's take for example a group of us and let's go and see this man committee let's go and ask him some questions let's see the way he interacts with us and if he claims to be a man of God we'll take this even further we're not just going to stop there we'll take this even further and even possibly be willing to invoke God's curse upon whoever of us is lying I read in a narration around 40,000 of them turned up if you were to gather 10,000 people would that not be an act of war I mean how did just to get my head around invoking curses and challenging people to debate how did that whole encounter occur in Medina what pushed these events to take place I wouldn't say 40,000 definitely to turn up I'd say that there's certainly a good number of their high priests to turn up and when they turn up they come and quite you know quite luxurious regalia and they want to you know they enter according to different narrations the mosque of the prophet Muhammad peace be upon his family and one narration mentions that they meet and they meet and they ask where is Muhammad and the reply from the two of them is when they go to ask he looks at them and he says come back tomorrow because it's a bit more humble and you will definitely meet the prophet Muhammad peace be upon his family and they realise that as men of God that entering the mosque in such a situation representing the religion with a man who himself said that he's the messenger of God and the final one maybe required a bit more humility from them and they come back the next day and when they come back the next day as we mentioned there's a lot of false prophets out there there's a lot of false prophets lots of false messiahs and let's see if this man actually is a man of God so first amongst the questions they ask him is who was Joseph's father نبي يوسف عليه السلام they ask him who was his father and the reply is Jacob ياقوب and say to him who was Moses's father who was your father says عبد الله who was Jesus's father that's the point they want to reach who was Jesus's father the Quran the verses revealed upon the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and his family at that moment because when the prophet Muhammad replies Jesus had no father they said then God must be his father he is the son of God and the Quran then replies to them with the phenomenal principle the example of Jesus is similar to that of Adam God created him from dust and said be and it will be created from clay and be and it will be if you're saying Jesus should be the son of God because Jesus did not have a father Adam has a greater right of being the son of God because Adam has no father or no mother so therefore they begin to see that you know what there is a point being made here that this man knows Moses knows Joseph he knows for example about the Abrahamic prophets but he's given us something to think about when it comes to Christ many Christians will say the same line that Jesus must be the son of God because Jesus did not have a father I often wonder in my research a couple of things number one is Adam deserves to be called son of God because he has no father no mother because Jesus had a mother I always wonder also how many times in the Bible Christ actually says that I am the son of God and I also wonder how many prophets in the Bible are called sons of God and I wonder whether we're all the children of God so these are things which you always wonder about when you're discussing these issues so they say that to the Prophet Muhammad that okay we see where you're coming from but we do not agree and the Quran mentions this phenomenal moment that occurs it's the ninth year after Hijrah you're looking at 23rd 24th the Al-Hijjah a year and a bit before the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him his family dies so you're talking 21 years into his Prophethood and the Quran at this moment doesn't just tell the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him his family you challenge them it asks him to actually tell them that after this knowledge has come to you you're still disputing me say to them we'll bring our sons you bring your sons you bring your women we'll bring ourselves you bring yourselves we'll enter a mubahela meaning that we'll ask God to curse those who are wrong from us the disbelievers and then the ayah states in Arabic in chapter 3 verse 61 and then then whoever disputes with you after the knowledge has been made clear to them so say to them we'll bring our sons we'll bring our women you bring your women we'll bring ourselves you bring yourselves we'll ask God to curse those of us who are wrong who are the disbelievers if you think I'm a false prophet there's no mubahela at that moment there's going to be people who are going to spread a rumor that this man's a false prophet so he's going to have to be willing to look towards his Lord and say curse me if I'm wrong and are you willing and that confident to tell the Lord to curse you if you are wrong and then Allah will withdraw his mercy from the disbelievers it's huge because the Prophet Muhammad is not saying okay you know what tomorrow I'll debate you or tomorrow I'll change your mubahela he's now brought others into the frame talk about bring your sons we'll bring ours talk about bring your woman we'll bring our woman talk about bring yourself who's he going to choose as his sons who's he going to take as his woman and who's he going to look at in the whole of Madinian society who he views as being as himself and it's very interesting at that night the companions are all wondering which one of us is he going to choose because it's a great honor you know you're going to be the one revered as either being known as from the sons of Muhammad of the woman he's married to at the time you know the likes of for example Um Salama he's married to Um Habib he's married to Aisha he's married to He's married to these renowned women who could easily be if you could choose from a hundred thousand companions who's he going to pick as himself and they're all wondering and subhanallah the next day the priests are also wondering is he going to bring his family or his companions if he brings his companions we'll enter a Mubahela with him but if he brings his family we won't because a man who's willing to sacrifice his family for the religion publicly in front of everyone you know that's a man of God and the next day who does he take with him as his sons Imam Al-Hassan and Imam Al-Hussain هذة to that point how old are they six years of age and five years of age and it's wonderful how he puts youth at the forefront of the religion today in our mosques there are mosques whose numbers are dwindling because the elders are out of touch with the needs of the youth the dad is more concerned that the sheikh is his friend rather than whether his son is inside the majlis or not London give you a prime example London four or five of the biggest mosques in London English lectures are not their main lecture the sheikh or the sayid will give a lecture in Arabic numbers of youth attending is atrocious I personally can't blame them and the organized committee of the mosques especially in the Iraqi community in London will not hand over the keys to the youth and other communities in London as well some have tried to make an effort to say youth should be at the front but I can guarantee you that in the willada of Imam Al-Hadi let's say last week I can guarantee you 70% of let's say for example Iraqis aged between 20 and 35 did not attend a majlis in one of the prominent mosques in London because the mosques not put the youth at the forefront رسول الله puts Imam Al-Hassain at this very pivotal moment the Christians have come and said listen we'll challenge you the reputation of the entire religion his own reputation the Muslim Ummah and he puts Imam Al-Hassain when the Quran says وقبنا أنا وقبنا secondly it highlights حسن حسين that if a Muslim today says to me حسن حسين are great because they are the grandsons of the Prophet Muhammad I'm like no he viewed them as if they were his sons and that's a huge honor معاوية had a servant by the name of ذاكوان and he was really angry why do people say حسن حسين are the sons of Muhammad and ذاكوان mentions to him that in the verse وقبنا أنا and so when aid came معاوية tells ذاكوان make sure you give the gifts towards my towards my sons what he meant were his grandsons so he said to him when it comes to your grandsons it's okay for you to call them sons but when it comes to رسول الله you have a problem with him calling حسن حسين his sons it's a term of in demon but God has now shown in this verse that this is how how high حسن حسين are and that at that young age at the age of 6 and 5 can represent this religion like امام الجواد كد like امام الحج كد when people say your imams were at this young age I defy you try and defeat our imams at 5 or at 6 or at 9 in the debate الله سبحانه وتعالى when he says فمن حاجك فيه من بعد ما جاءك من العلم فقل تعالوا ندعو ابناء أنا و ابناءكم this is a clear statement to everybody that there is none like حسن حسين ابناء أنا و ابناءكم نساء أنا و نساء and we bring our woman you bring your woman prone to Muhammad peace be upon his family he's married to his wives at that time yes there's many great women in Medina at the time fantastic woman he takes Fatima to Zahra again to clearly show that none of these come near the imam or the taqwa of Fatima and Zahra and that's why there's no doubt when it says the foreman of jannah and that she is the greatest of all and that she is the greatest of all and that she is the greatest of all when Fatima comes none comes near Fatima secondly what's interesting is he wants a woman to represent the religion in the public spotlight and politically how many wonderful sisters in our community were deprived of education were deprived of representing the religion politically or socially because of the backwardness of our communities that instead of our communities promoting women promoting women at the front of the religion we made a hundred excuses no the social hijab 9th year after hijra a year before he dies his lord is telling him فقل تعالع ندعو أبناء أنا و أبناءكم و نساء أنا و نساءكم and we'll call upon our woman the religion of Islam was never meant to be a male-shavenist and patriarchal system that did not value the woman in any way it was meant to be a religion that did not look at the woman and the man except for the value of what they've contributed back to society and their spirituality yes socially there may be different roles at different times and different responsibilities but spiritually the feats to be achieved are the same because I remember when someone said to me that the best hijab is for for the man not to look at the woman the woman not to look at the man I said don't take hadiths without looking at other traditions other instances that here in this moment he wants Fatima at the forefront of the religion which should mean in our mosques women should be making as many decisions as the men in the mosque should be part of the decisions of the men and I tell you in my own lecture and career you find that the women are a lot more religious than the men the passion for religion the passion for learning is unique and yet subhanallah sometimes in our mosques and I feel sorry you could say in the west there's progress being made I'm not going to say it's going to happen overnight but there's progress in some parts of Middle East the Indo-Pac subcontinent Africa the way women are looked at barbaric treatment honestly and yet here you have the greatest woman with her father wanting her at the forefront of the religion represent us our woman should be the best when it comes to representing we shouldn't be hiding them should be proud when they write books proud when they give lectures proud when they teach proud when they have the best of careers when it comes to medicine or finance so you've got Hassan and Hussein and how old was Farman Zahra on that day 16 that's amazing again people forget that Imam Ali ibn al-Adha Farman Zahra, Imam Hassan and Hussein young family at the forefront of the religion so you've got Imam Hassan and Hussein ابناء أنا وابناءكم نساء أنا ونساءكم Farman Zahra then there's that final line which ساعد بن أبي وقاس reminds معاوية about صحيح مسلم my dear brothers and sisters in the chapter in صحيح مسلم on the virtues of Imam Ali and I beg you let's become a community of readers I'm begging people in the chapter of the virtues of Imam Ali معاوية son of Abu Sufyan asks what prevents you from cursing Ali son of Abu Talib now this this baffles me when I read this tradition because why معاوية and ساعد بن أبي وقاس who people will say may Allah be pleased with them next to their names why we should stage معاوية's time where we're asking questions about what prevents a companion supposedly going to Jannah from cursing Ali I remember معاوية in his explanation of this tradition says yes what معاوية meant is what is it that prevents you from cursing Ali is it your تقوى ساعد بن أبي وقاس replies by saying that there are certain attributes given to Ali Mehmet Ali certain merits that he has and he mentions on the day of مباهل he was known as the self of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon his friend I ask everybody and تفسير الجلالين of سيوطر المحلي تفسير الجلالين إن صحيح مسلم is clear معاوية ساعد بن أبي وقاس what prevents you from cursing Ali which goes to show you the idea of fourth Khalifa rightly guided was not a nonsense comes later in أهل السنة والجماعة as creed of four rightly guided caliphs and Saad mentions he mentions خيبار for example but he also mentions مباهلة he mentions that day where the companions are all yearning what better accolade on this in this life is there to achieve than being known as the nafs of Muhammad because if we were to say all the prophets are great but the greatest is Muhammad then what about the person who is known as the nafs of Muhammad what position does that put him إمام عليفة مطارب عليف السلام how old was he on that day 31 in his youth and they all now go towards the Christians and the Christians are mesmerized by looking at أصحاب الكساء all together in the same way that they were together in the revelation of 3333 from the word إِنَّمَ now they're mesmerized looking at the light shining from their faces محمد عليفة محسنة حسين and the description is so vivid and you wonder which religion would be proud of a generation that massacred the family of the Prophet Muhammad with the last of them lying on the ground 50 years after this incident in كربانا and so what takes place is that the Christians see this when they see this they say we're not going to enter why because the amount of light that shines from those 5 faces if it told a mountain to move the mountain would move and that's why every Muslim on this earth has to love أعل محمد عليف السلام I'm not obligated to love every companion but I'm obligated to love أعل محمد if I mention أعل محمد in my صلاة it's not void if I mention the name of a companion in my صلاة in my تشهد it becomes void أعل محمد we always say we always say we always say we always say same way God chose the family of Abraham with the covenant of prophethood no one called that a monarchy when God chose أعل محمد they said you shia only follow like a monarchy with sons and sons with Abraham it was all cool but now with أعل محمد you have some sort of hasad you have some envy of what God gave أعل محمد and so Subhan Allah he made it clear because people always say is that the only time he showed Imam Ali his greatness مباهلة ساعد says I remember that day where he said Ali is his self at the moment I'm the mind blown state of mind I think we need to go to a break so I can digest the story and the amazing knowledge you have so to our dear viewers please join us after a short break we'll be back I don't know where to begin with the questions I have for say the Marba in the second part of the show I'll put some questions forward to him you've sent some questions via WhatsApp you can also ring in live to the channel the number is 203-515-0199 we look forward to joining you after the break looking deeper into the event of مباهلة السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته welcome to part 2 of live in London with our esteemed guest Doctor Said Amman Akshwani tonight's topic is the topic of the event of مباهلة now if you missed part 1 at the end of part 1 you've missed out on a great great story told by the Said I'm still trying to get my head around what actually happened coming back to the event of مباهلة if the prophet came as a prophet of mercy why would he then challenge people to curse them shouldn't he have just prayed for them it certainly is not like the prophet Muhammad peace be upon his family to go around looking to curse people or to wish upon them to become pigs and monkeys and so on which I think certain scholars allude to that had they accepted this مباهلة this is what may have been a punishment and scholars differ upon this I think there is a recognition here that these people are part of a community who believe that he is a false prophet people who believe that he is the antichrist if you're going to be spreading rumors like that then are you willing to enter this curse and it's interesting that some of the christian priests are narrated to have turned around and said listen let's not enter the curse now if god wants to by the end of the year he's going to destroy this guy anyway you know and they look at the terms and they're thinking well you know what if the jews are going to be subordinate to the authority of Muhammad and agree to pay a tax for the state maybe that's the best terms which we could go with just had a call of phone in السلام عليكم وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته yes brother could you share your name and your question please السلام عليكم you're my name is brother Hamid from New Jersey how are you today وعليكم السلام brother الحمد لله I just have a question and this is a question I've had for a very long time now and I just found the answer to it إن شاء الله I would like to ask a question as to why did it take so long for this answer to be for this question to be answered for me إن شاء الله we all know that the Qur'an has many different layers for example a mathematical layer that many people use in debates be it with Christians or non-believers I brought the Qur'an as a miracle of Muhammad peace be upon him in the family of the many numerical miracles in the Qur'an for example if you take a look at the number of times the word which is lamp and the sea is mentioned you see you get the exact ratio that earth is 70% water and 30% lamp or for example in this مباحلة the Qur'an as you mentioned in the verse it says 25 times it says the comparison of Adam is the comparison of Jesus peace be upon them the name Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم it's mentioned 4 times in the Qur'an correct? yes and the Qur'an in that same and the next verse it says and we just discussed how it refers to yes yes how come 4 times Muhammad is mentioned that 4 times Ali is mentioned as well in the Qur'an as well now well my dear brother we found Allah SWT not through our eyes but through our intellect we really don't need for us to have 4 and 4 or 72 and 28 or 50 and 50 or all these different ratios mathematically for me to believe in God I found Allah SWT through the creation of God I recognize that for every creation there must be a first cause the creator and so on and likewise I recognize that my Lord would not be unjust in leaving us without guidance and he sent prophets of God and it's inconceivable that the final of those prophets would leave the world without announcing a successor who would guide the people socially, spiritually and politically and so did I really need to find that Ali has to be mentioned 4 times because Muhammad is mentioned 4 times رسول الله SWT has already mentioned numerous examples of his closeness with Imam A.S. without there being a need for a particular equation for it if I see the prophet peace be upon him his family saying Ali is to me like Aaron was to Moses that suffices for me if I see the prophet calling him his nefs that suffices for me if I see the holy prophet peace be upon him his family saying only Allah and Ali know me and the only me and Ali know Allah and only Allah and me know Ali that suffices for me and even without all of this had I not been a Muslim I would be enamored by the wonderful relationship of رسول الله and Imam Ali Ibn Salam a 30-year age gap but the wonderful foresight and vision of these two greatest creations of God while some may look for these types of equations and miracles I think intellectually we could see as well as through literature the greatness of the two going back to the topic of why the prophet would invoke them in a curse if we were to look at the concept of cursing within Islam I know it's mentioned in the Quran is it a concept in Islam as in you're saying cursing I think the word cursing in Arabic you're looking at the word سب for example and you look in the Quran in Chapter 6 verse 108 you see the Quran saying بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم فيسب الله عدوان بغير علم do not curse the idols of the idol worshipers they'll turn around and curse لعن is not cursing لعن is a supplication where you ask الله سبحانه وتعالى to withdraw his mercy from an individual or from a group of people so we saw that الله سبحانه وتعالى in the Quran لعنة الله على الكاثبين sometimes prophets of Allah are the ones who do لعنة لعنة الذين كفروا وعيس ابن مرية that the disbelievers from the children of Israel you'll find that they were supplicated against by prophet David and the prophet Jesus عليه السلام we are also expected to be of those who at times supplicate to Allah to withdraw his mercy from the oppressors if you look in the Quran in Chapter 2 verse 159 لذين يكتمون ما أنزلنا من البيانات والهدى من بعد ما بيانناه للناس في الكتاب ولاك يلعنهم الله ويلعنهم اللعنون are a group of people who ask Allah to withdraw his mercy from individuals the holy prophet Muhammad peace be upon his family said لعنة from those who do not go under Osama from those who turn back from the army of Osama when the holy prophet peace be upon his family was about to pass away he had ordered the companions to go under Osama bin Zaid the 18 year old and some of them rejected this and he said لعنة on those to turn away from the army of Osama لعنة دفوه is a Quranic concept to ask Allah to withdraw his mercy is there but there are certain things we need to understand and there is a time and place if I am going to ask Allah to withdraw his mercy from individual if I am sitting next to someone who revives that individual I am going to do لعنة then and that person's feelings may be affected and harmed and it is not the best of etiquettes if I want to do لعنة on individual between me and my lord I can recite that لعنة you see Imam Al Baqar Imam Al Sadaq when they teach us the visit of Ashura there are certain لعنة which are there without any names there is a precedent that set also we have to remember make sure that لعنة doesn't rebound on you because if I am going to do لعنة I am going to ask Allah for example why? because شمر بن الجوشن let's say did not want the woman to be wearing their hijab if I am the type of person who is saying I don't want to marry a girl who wears hijab or I don't want my daughter to wear hijab then why am I doing لعنة on شمر against the ladies of Karbala when I might be that person at home I do لعنة for example اللهم عن يزيد صنب معاوية why? because يزيد صنب معاوية as a person and musicians all around him in his palace in Sham if I am the type of person who can't live but listen to music and listen to music of a nature or music of a nature which is against the teachings of al-Muhammad so why am I doing لعنة on يزيد if I am doing the same or if for example I am doing لعنة on someone like Ibn Ziyad because let's say Ibn Ziyad was someone who had spread rumors about people of the household of Rasool Allah in the community and lied if I am someone who is gossiping and lying about people's lives then why am I doing لعنة on Ibn Ziyad while لعنة is seen in this eye of مباهل that you ask Allah to withdraw his mercy from individuals we have to make sure it doesn't rebound back on us so after you mentioned the prophet hasad az-Zahra as-salamu alayha Imam Ali as-salamu al-Mahassan Imam Sain came together the priests saw them saw the light in their faces and said if these guys were to tell a mountain to move the mountain it would move but we don't want to have any trouble with them what happened after that did the priests just pack up and go home did they convert did they go back to Najran then it was agreed that you are more than welcome to continue worshiping in your churches you are not going to force you with a sword to become Muslim if a person is forced to become Muslim with that sword this is null and void and this is a disgrace to the religion of Islam whenever you see a person walking around the Islamic State with a sword in their hands brandishing it to anyone who disagrees with them then you know there's issues sadly and so what you find is that they say to them listen continue worshiping in your churches that's the world view of Muhammad and al-Muhammad and let's be clear there's not many others who had that world view unless there was a political maneuver he was looking to pull at one point or another and so with the Holy Prophet of Islam he says to Imam Ali as-salam write the treaty Imam Ali as-salam in my opinion politically is hardly ever mentioned with reverence the way he deserves you've got some orientalists and some academics who try and say Ali as-salam politically is inept because when he becomes caliph of the Islamic State there are civil wars and so on I'll never forget that person who said to him how comes in the time of Abu Bakr and Omar we had no wars when you become caliph we have three and he says because in their time they dealt with people like me whereas in my time I have to deal with people like you and so I think with Imam Ali he also mentions if it wasn't for Taqwa I would be the most cunning of Arabs but I'm conscious of Allah and all my decisions that I make and number three those who say Ali as-salam spiritually he's my leader but politically I take others who wrote the treaty of Hudaybiyah who wrote the treaty of Najran Imam Ali as-salam and in terms of the treaty was a certain amount of generosity and donations were to be given in couple of months of the year back towards the poor certain amount of tax that was to be leave it on them what we refer to as the jizya for the non-Muslim who lives within the Islamic State and from then they were able to go back and worship as any person should be allowed to be worshiped place of worship may not be mine but if the people are there people are peace then why should they not be allowed to worship what they theologically have concluded for their life so carrying on on the topic of Imam Ali as-salam a message is coming from sister Zahra Ali in London she says Imam Ali is a man of unity what advice would you give to bring about unity and peace between people in conflict either to friends or to family members rather than a such a question we have to be a bit more precise when unity what are we referring to are we referring to unity within the household unity within the community unity between members of the religion if you're talking on a let's say if you're talking for example on the communal level look at the word come unity there's no way we're going to flourish whether we're in London or in America or wherever we are unless the members of our community are willing to let bygones be bygones and build and work together again till today we have factions in our community this mosque follows that marja this mosque follows that marja this group loves this marja this group hates that marja and this has to be removed this is a disease in our community and we have to make sure that it's out quickly I don't want it to spread anymore and I know there are people who are working actively to try and bring unity between the mosques in our community if it's within our own mother we certainly need that because I hear many people talk about Shi'a Sunni Unity first let's have Shi'a Shi'a Unity and if it's there then on Shi'a Sunni Unity here in the UK I think more and more initiatives have to be made where we bring the leaders of our communities together and discuss the many areas where there are common denominators I'm not going to deny in my theology I'm Shi'a in my identity I'm certainly Shi'a and my conclusions I may differ with other schools in Islam but that shouldn't stop me that's on the Day of Eid or the Day of Honoring the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and his family or the Day of Honoring the Quran and its role in our life on the Day of Breaking Iftar the Muslims have to come together so there are many different levels in our lives in which we are able to bring unity in our different relationships so let's put unity amongst Muslims aside for a second we live in a majority a majority Christian country being in the United Kingdom how can we use the event of Mubahila to our advantage as Muslims because as you mentioned rightly it's mentioned both in Shi'a authentic books answer new authentic books so how can we do justice for this Eid and involve the Christians around us maybe we can tell them what would your advice be to someone who wants to connect with the greater Christian community for example well I'd love if there was an exhibition that was done where people were able to see how the Quran looks at Christian theology Christian narrative Christian scripture and by bringing together in this exhibition sections on for example صورة البروج صورة الكهف صورة ياسين صورة مريم these صورة of the Holy Quran these chapters صورة البروج is of course Chapter 85 صورة الكهف is chapter 18 صورة ياسين Chapter 36 صورة مريم Chapter 19 Bringing these chapters where there is dimension of Christ dimension of Mary in the Quran because we live in a Europe today where believe you me there are far right groups who want to try and show ويظن أن الوصول الأمر ينبذوا من يوم أخرى وانبذوا أيضاً من إسلام وفي الإسلام ويجعلنا أن نرى بزينة حتى يريدون أن نتحدث أو نخبر أبداً لكن الحمد لله أني لديك جزء رحل جزء رحل رحل والتساعدة فيها و هذا هو مباشر و أنا أحدث و أحدث و أخبرتنا و أخبرتنا لأجباء الذين يحصلون على إجبت الذين يحصلون على إجبت بباركلي في الأن 40 سنوات لن يتعلم عن أصبحته خلال أجباء الذين يحصلون على إجبت بذلك المعاري العبطية نحن لدينا هذه التأكيد لذا يجب أن يجب أن يكون لدينا مجموعة رسالة يجب أن يكون لدينا إكسابيشن that are done where people are able to come and see what are the different markers in our history and appreciate that there were negatives but appreciate that there were positives and that we can build on those positives القرآن سيقول يا أهل الكتاب تعالوا إلى كلمة سواء بيننا وبينكم اللا نعبد الله ولا نشك بيشيأ ولا يتخذ بعضنا بعضاً على بعضاً من دون الله say oh people of the book come to a joint word between us and you we'll worship no one but God we won't take partners to God or law give us besides God and I think that ethos is what we have to try and instill in what is a very difficult period I don't think that the far right of Christianity was as outspoken as it is today was as vicious as it is today and I'm saddened when I see the Islamic extreme which is so visible in the media but when you're looking at Archbishop Desmond Tutu and you're looking at the Pope and they see a situation where Muslims are under oppression and they both speak out those are the type of role models who remind me of the najashi of Abyssinia and the help he offered the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and his family when Islam was at its birth so hopefully those are people and examples which we can adopt in our lives you've got countries for examples such as Lebanon where Muslims and Christians live together but sadly in some cases there are so many misconceptions about each other's beliefs that need to be addressed so that our kids can live by understanding and appreciating our common denominators there are many who are neighbors there but deep down they're still a friction there and there shouldn't be but sometimes a person wonders is it true you Muslims do this is it true you Muslims do that and it's only through dialogue that we're going to be able to show that listen Moses, Jacob, Abraham, David the love of God all of these are part and part of our lives and hopefully that type of dialogue will build for a healthier future for human beings I remember in my hometown in Iran, Northwest Iran, Orumya there's a church back from the Roman times if I'm not mistaken still there now roofs falling down a little bit but every year there's a lot of Christians living in that town when it becomes to Muharram they come out into the streets they do let me ask with us they provide food for the Muslims and it's a great time to get them involved in our Majalis and also teach them about our religion and learn from them as well questions come in from Brother Amin going on the topic of people he says I have a question about using the verse of Al Mubahila can people use it between each other when they debate on issues concerning faith nowadays either by normal people or scholars I've seen on Facebook myself two guys get at it one of them says I invoke this on you the other one I invoke that on you is there conditions to this thing or is it just a well you know I would hope that we leave this as a prophetic issue rather than some randoms who want to start invoking curses upon one another and I think that you look at it Allah SWT may Allah SWT lengthen his life and his message is clear that you know what try amongst yourselves to give the best image of Ahl al Bayt Don't be of those who are throwing around curses everywhere or of those who are invoking curses you know on to people try your hardest to have the best دخلاق and let the people see the Ahl al Bayt through your manners through your actions so I would say that these are to be left for those who are chosen by Allah rather than those who think about Allah rather than those who think about Allah those who are chosen by Allah rather than those who think they are chosen by Allah the keyboard warriors on Facebook another brilliant question come in some of our Sunni brothers give an argument that before the revelation of Mubahila verse the verse already revealed about the wives of the Prophet they shouldn't leave their house that's why they say at Mubahila the Prophet didn't bring his wives what would we respond to it if the verse was absolute about the wives not leaving their house how does Aisha leave on the day of the camel if the verse says as it says in chapter 33 verse 33 وطعنا الله ورسوله now if the verse is saying this وطعنا في بيوت كنة and they're saying that therefore فاتم are going on Mubahila because the wives couldn't leave how does Aisha the wife of the Prophet come out in the battle of Bastra the battle of Jamal and fight Imam Ali A.S but I suppose for the feminist out there they use her as a good response for those who say that women have no rights in Islam they will say that no women do have rights Aisha's wife of the Prophet fought it's a clear symbol of rights in Islam another question from brother Ehsan in London he says what are the key differences between understanding رسول الله through Imam Ali A.S compared to other schools and groups and how important is it to continue the characterization of رسول الله through the Ahl al-Bayt for the world to truly know our Prophet is and the Islam he brought about it's a great point you know the seer of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon his family can either be taken from Anas Bin Malik or Aisha or Abu Huraira or it could be taken from the Ahl al-Bayt and I know which one I'll choose and I'm confident about the ones that I'll choose and yeah I really don't need Anas or Abu Huraira or Aisha to be the ones who tell me about the biography of my Prophet Imam Ali Bin Abi Talib peace be upon him his grandsons the likes of Imam Al-Baqر and Imam Al-Sada I'll take lessons of the Prophet's life any day from them of course someone might argue well but if you will narrate this tradition if she narrates it about for example Ahl al-Kasa I don't mind as long as there's no contradiction with Imam Al-Baqر and Imam Al-Sada I'll take it any day but it's a shame you know if you look at the biography of the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon his family made by those outside of Ahl al-Bayt I'm not surprised Rushdie wrote the satanic verses at the beginning of the show we I mentioned Aid al-Fat Aid al-Qadir and we mentioned إيد المباهلة isn't celebrated amongst us in the ways the other Eids are for example what should we do to celebrate this event because just to go out and chill and enjoy and you know have a good time you know I do believe our mosques are quite stale sometimes in the sense of you know you go there and sometimes it's just a lecture and someone recites some poetry give a bit of food if you're lucky that night always makes for a great attendance and then after that you socialize I do believe sometimes changing it up a bit may Allah bless the brothers at the Haid al-Islamic Center who I had the honor of you know serving for many years who always made it a point to try and change up sometimes a birth do the odd quiz the odd raffle you know do the odd question answer session give out prizes you know maybe hire a place for a fair you know for the kids to enjoy and you know don't just stick to the same pattern give the lecture and then after that you know people socialize some food and so on I believe that we can make our our celebrations truids in the way that we want you see some Muslims when it comes to weddings they go absolutely wild I'm not saying go that wild but I certainly believe that we should make our occasions you know these celebrations joyous ones and if in your local area or your community people aren't doing it then do it at home invite people home don't make an excuse well there's nothing in the mosque so I'm not going to do anything أهل البيت tell us رحم الله من أحيا أمرنا may Allah SWT shower his mercy on those who revive our affairs and it should be an honor that we revive the affairs of عالم محمد in our mosques but also in our houses in a way which is suitable which doesn't go outside the boundaries of the principles but certainly bring more joy إن شاء الله إن شاء الله another question from brother Ali Haider from Greenford he says سلام is مباهلة just for Muslims or is it against people from different faiths has it ever occurred within Islam so for example a Muslim against a Muslim in the history of Islam history of the religion you know seeing other you know examples which are narrated authentically I can't vouch that I've seen something narrated authentically there's a couple of mentions but pre-Islamic Arabia it's certainly mentioned that there were مباهلة has taken place and that the Arabs knew of it and they knew and you could see it in their poetry as well the mentioning a question via Facebook from Pasha Zahra she says سلام I have been listening to people's comments about music that everything in the world has its own tune even when water or rain falls down on anything music is in everything and it's not haram could you please explain a little bit more regarding this but you know I don't want to be one of those who's you know completely puts a blanket and says music is completely haram I think I think like you know a knife could kill a human being or it could cut an orange for you and I think there's positives and negatives I think that there are some positives which can be used in our communities you know in the world of film the world of media who can reject the fact that the odd drum was used to rally the troops in the early days of the religion of Islam and even with some instruments I don't want to put a blanket that every instrument is bad because I've read the works and the discussions of our grand-scholars that there may be certain instruments that can be used in a positive way I just think that the bottom line when it comes to music is if you believe that what you're listening to would represent the أهل البيت and the teachings of the Quran then go ahead but if you could see that it's the opposite of the teachings of the other in the Quran there are no two hearts in one body you have to make up your mind where your heart is many times people ask the question I wonder where would I have been on the tenth of Muharram would I have been on Yazid's army would I have been with Imam Hussein's army and I think sometimes it's just small things like this which tell you that you know in Karabala as the famous scholar said knowledge lies on the ground in Karabala while silk musicians are on the throne of Damascus and I think a person has to begin to reflect at what stage of their life do they want to make that move towards you know the following of أهل البيت علم السلام and all their teachings and not following maybe in Muharram or just in the holy month of Ramadhan but for a person to put a blanket outright ban and say you know what any music is Haram no there are positives and negatives and I think out there who's even nothing to do with the religion of Islam will say to you that there's some music which is vulgar the language is the language of people who are corrupt or people who are immoral and there's other types of music which on the contrary is far away from that world maybe pleasant to listen to the classical type maybe soothing for some and then you know after that everyone refers to their conscience and the talk that it gives them Okay staying on the topic of language and corrupt language is a message from brother Ali from Sweden he says why do we have to be diplomatic in our Tabarra when we are just telling the truth could you shed some more light on that well I think my imams are the ones who you know when they leave me a Ziyara like Ziyarat Haashura they're being pretty they're giving the truth but they're also highlighting that not everybody not all the truth has to be mentioned all the time and you know it's nice for us to say that the ethos of the Quran is invite to the way of your Lord دعونا سبيل ربك بالحكمة والموعظة الحسنة وجادلهم بالتي هي أحسن invite towards the way of your Lord with wisdom which 99% of us lack and the kind word and speak to them in a way which is better and this is something we have to adopt in our lives يهد البيت telling us كونوا لنا زينا ولا تكونوا علينا شينا we have to be a source of adornment for the message of آل محمد عليهم السلام تبارر is not just in لعنة and things like that you can write a book which talks about the oppression against آل محمد you can write a book which talks about what's happened to the followers of اهد البيت عليهم السلام when they try to hold on to the message of آل محمد عليهم السلام doesn't always have to be a fierce battle I'm better than you I'm greater than you there are different ways in which a person is able to dissociate which is the original meaning of the word تبارر and I guarantee you a lot of people who talk about تبارر don't even know where it is in the Qur'an and that's where our prime problem is half the people who want to do these things don't even know any verse or when they bring verses of the Holy Qur'an they'll bring you verses to suit their argument the person has to build a relationship with the Qur'an with the أهل البيت and invite people towards the way of God in a manner of wisdom إن شاء الله a question you mentioned the event of مباهلة was narrated as a sort of one example from the servant of معاوية is it narrated anywhere within christian books I've not come across it in christian literature I've certainly seen certain orientalists who've discussed it and they put their question marks on the event as to whether it actually took place was it a forgery of a dialogue just to show that the christians had met and had discussed their religions but in christian literature as I said معاوية's conversation with ساعد بنبي وقاس وساعد refers to the nefs title given to Imam Ali on the day of مباهلة and تفسير الجلال of سيوطيا محلي where it's clearly mentioned that the prophet took Imam Ali Imam حسن Imam الحسين and Fatou El-Zahra on that day إن شاء الله another final question just to end the show إن شاء الله that we can read if we feel our hearts and souls are dead from the trials of the world any recommendations there are so many wonderful supplications of أهل البيت عليم السلام and you know many times a person may feel down in this world it may be difficult Imam عليم العليم says a wonderful line which we should take from him do not say يا الله don't test me you will be tested rather say يا الله don't test me with that which shakes my faith in you and while your faith in Allah is still strong then that test is not that bad but I would recommend you know of the beautiful Da'az for such a thing why not recite Da'az تشيئ and see how much of an effect it has on you إن شاء الله إن شاء الله another great episode another great night I myself have learned a lot thank you thank you very much for your time إن شاء الله إن شاء الله مبارك to you in advance and to our respected viewers at home thank you for tuning in to another episode of Live in London with our esteemed guest Dr. Sada Manakshwani we will be back إن شاء الله soon with another topic looking to see you please keep us in your prayers and a pre ايد مبارك for the Eid of Mubar إن شاء الله to you and your families and do keep us in your Da'az as always I'm sorry if I couldn't get to all of your questions via WhatsApp, Facebook but you could call in إن شاء الله in the near future and speak to us directly السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته