 food channel that is ours on that hashtag Thursday Vibes as well as still lying in the morning and this segment right now is an interesting segment where we talk about matter-stake. In short we shine the light on sport on tech so we invite professionals who are savvy in the world of technology and many others. It's a massive world that has so many opportunities and in as much as it's a world that has opportunities it also has regulations and today we feature a powerful gentleman who's a cyber security awareness psychologist but maybe if I messed up here clarify he goes by the name David Moyer-Penk his lab with us in the studio. Good morning David, welcome. Good morning, how are you? Thank you for having me this morning. Welcome to our in the morning. Great, thank you so much. The weather is really... Oh, it's really nice. It's really nice loving it out there in Nairobi city. Beautiful weather, beautiful energy, beautiful spirit and loving it. Yeah, you know it's so interesting to see like somebody who's foreign accept what's happening in that country really fast because most of the people will be like I don't like the weather but thanks let me do what brought me here but I love the fact that you like it here. Welcome to Kenya. Thank you, thank you so much. All right, so let's get to know you a little bit and how you got to have this title. Yes, right. My name is David Moyer-Penk. I'm from Botswana but I'm here representing an organization called the African Cyber Smart Network which is a continental program. I am a cyber psychologist by profession but I work as a cybersecurity awareness specialist. I know there's just too many terms to it. I work as a cybersecurity awareness specialist. What does that mean? We promote cybersecurity awareness. We promote online safety as a society, global society, African society, even the Kenyan society. Increasingly we're becoming digitalized. The use of digital technology is now a part of our everyday life. Right. It's part of our social lives and it's now getting into our cultures, our practices, our traditions and we know that with technology as much as it is a useful tool, there are security threats, there are safety threats that emerge out of our interaction, our engagement through technology, in technology and it is increasingly becoming vital. It's becoming important that people are taught how to use technology safely and meaningfully so as to reap the full benefits of what technology can do. You know when you have your phone, you have your wallet, you can do amazing things. Children can go to school online. As adults, we can go to school online. We can do business online. You can do so many things online but if there are hindrances to that, imagine what that means because that means even the economies are not benefiting from the global digital economy so there's a lot that we can benefit from technology and that needs to be safeguarded by all things. Cyber security experts always talk about the weakest link online in terms of security being the end user, the user, me and you. Mainly it's because of our behaviors. We don't use strong pathways. We lock into websites that are not safe, that are not secure. You are a business man. You want to order goals. You don't just check before you even order goals from overseas. You end up being scammed. There's a lot of phishing scams going on online. Somebody sends you an email. Somebody sends you a text. They say you have won a million shillings and then you are excited. Click on this link. Click on this link. There's a lot of identity theft going in there. The more that happens, I mean Interpol just a week ago released a statement that says Africa is experiencing a proliferation of cybercrime. That means a lot of us internet users are becoming victim to cybercrime and when you become victim to something, you tend to withdraw and that's not what we want. We want Africans to engage with technology through technology and reap the full benefits of technology. But how best can we do that by making sure that we teach them about safe, responsible and meaningful use of the internet and digital technology as a whole so as to reap the full benefits. So as cyber security awareness specialists, that's what we do. We teach society, teaching communities, different groups of society. We have programs that we're through which we go to rural areas and teach the elderly and teach out of school youth. We have programs where we go to schools. We have programs for the girl child. Programs that are specifically designed for a girl child because they are a lot more vulnerable online as compared to the boy child because you know a 13-year-old girl as soon as they open a Facebook account or a Twitter account they automatically become a target to predators and things like that. So basically that's what we do and we have a lot of these organizations in different countries even in Kenya that promote cyber security that teach society about online safety. So we've created this network, the African Cyber Smart Network so that we can collaborate and do and run programs together because you know what we like to say in Africa, we're really one place. Our challenges are the same, the solutions have to be the same so we have to work together. So that's basically what the African Cyber Smart Network is all about and that's what I do. Right, interesting, really comprehensive. You've also reminded me, our country just launched there's a move to ensure that women, especially women in tech and they're calling it women in tech or tech women to be safeguarded because recently there's been a lot of trolling like you realize our women in leadership as well they're being told maybe because of their appearance and what they do and in a world where it's a modern day world where now women are taking up roles similar to men it becomes really hard to actually exist in that space but then I was looking at it, why not just have a balance now? Also, why can't we also extend the same to the other side? Yes, absolutely. So basically what we do as cyber security awareness specialists yes, we help victims but we also sensitize those that may be perpetrators. Generally there's a lot of excitement in Africa but around the world because technology gives you so much power, you can do so much you can be wherever and say whatever you want to do and it gives you so much freedom as well but so we are teaching everyone to make sure that they exercise their freedoms responsibly so do not bully others, do not harass others online because it could be you, it could be your daughter next time it could be your son, it could be somebody related to you so think about that, before you go out and insult someone online and get engaged in this trolling that is taking place online think about the consequences, think about the effect of your actions on the other person because we have incidents where especially young people, adolescents that have taken their lives because they were bullied online because cyber bullying, trolling, cyber stalking, cyber harassment in general it can lead to suicide, it can affect one's mental health and so as cyber psychologists that's what we do to teach internet users about responsible conduct online so that you do not become a perpetrator at the same time that we are teaching people to deal with these negative effects of inappropriate use of the internet we also sensitize the perpetrators to desist from using technology to abuse others and do all sorts of things, and we are Africans it happens a lot just because you have the internet and you can say whatever you want to say some of these people that are in politics, they are elders in Africa we have the spirit of ubuntu on the streets you don't go around insulting people or seeing politicians whether they are female or male and harling insults at them why should we do it online, you understand what are the things that we really sensitize society interesting, now let's for example in a company set up like us here or any other company outside how can you inform them of what we are talking about for example they are sharing a network and there is a lot of networking like maybe let's say a center network where I log in somebody else's logs in and then after some time you realize the network is down and they say our network was hacked within a short period of time you hear the information about that company on another blog or somebody else in another country did it so how can we sensitize companies on that and maybe there are some of the measures also from a professional perspective do you offer their packages that you are offering companies even as well as individuals on the other side yes absolutely, we do that so in different African countries there are specialists who offer those services that are part of the network and basically what we are doing also is to you know with technology previously cybersecurity was just an area that people thought this is just for IT guys the guys that work in the IT department have to worry about that but we live in an era where from the security officer at the gates, the cleaner, the receptionist everybody in an organization is using a device that is connected to the network so even when it comes to training members of staff we tell them not to leave anyone out that one is just that the gate is a security officer so let's not worry about them let's just focus on training and sensitizing our IT guys you know everybody in the organization needs to be taught on how to use the internet safely need to be sensitized about online security threats as long as they have a phone and they use the network because what can happen is somebody can send them a link they click on that link right and that link leads them to a website somewhere that has a ransom, not ransomware malware right and that malware is what hackers use to hack organizations, networks, systems and computers right and then that's how then we have a ransomware you know law enforcement officers are telling us on a daily basis that there is an increase in incidents of ransomware how do those things happen it starts with a link sent to whether it's your whatsapp, whether it's your email and you just open it without thinking about the consequences you don't even know where the link came from and that link leads to a website that has malware that malware then enables the hackers to lock into the system and get your details and even lock you out yourself, the user and then they take over the system and they say give us money or else we are not giving you your data so that's basically what cyber security, awareness, online safety awareness is all about making sure that everybody whether it's an organization, whether it's a school everybody is sensitized everybody is taught about safe use of the internet so as they can, it's just not about their own protection it's about the protection of everybody in the organization the organization's digital assets, networks, systems, data and everything that's in there Right, interesting and now from an individual's perspective at least if you are a student I'm sure at some point you went into a cybercafe, logged in into a device and you browsed online or did a research and printed using your email of course, your info now how safe am I logging into a cybercafe in town just down the street, logging in, checking something online and then I leave what is happening at the back end of some of this software has been used to run these computers because first of all I don't even know the owner I don't even know what he does but he has a cybercafe business but here I need a cybercafe to browse online how surf is my password and my details when it comes to using such equipment Yes, that's why we encourage users to use strong passwords but also to change their passwords regularly because you go into an internet cafe you don't even know who was there before you you don't know which websites they visited they locked into and you don't even know, like you said you don't know who is managing the network and what they have installed in those computers and one of the things that we do actually is to discourage users from looking into their online banking platforms using open Wi-Fi networks using internet cafes because some of these computers could be installed with malware that mines passwords you lock in, you put in your password there is a trojan that has been installed in there there's malware in there that then just grabs your password and the next thing you see your money just disappearing from your bank account without knowing how that happened but it's just some of these small things that we keep talking to people about on a daily basis, we are saying online safety should become part of your daily life the same way you leave your house in the morning you know you have to lock your house you know you have to close all the windows you know you have to make sure that your wallet is somewhere where it's safe you cross the road, you walk around in the city you make sure that you don't just cross the road you look to the right, you look to the left and all those things so what we do as cybersecurity awareness specialists is to make sure that we get these messages out on a regular basis talking to people on a daily basis to say hey you know and here's the thing also what's happening online the threat landscape evolves so on a daily basis there's new threats that are emerging so just as on a daily basis there's a new platform there's new this, there's new this on a daily basis you are learning about all these you know platforms that are coming up that have been created now we are talking about AI you know they chant GPTs they chant GPTs of the day and all those things how do we make sure that we just don't get excited and just jump into these things without you know thinking about the consequences the safety implications the security implications of these platforms it has reminded me of recently we've seen in our country there's been a lot of private photos that were taken in private now being unleashed in the public especially for celebrities and I was really asking myself what is going on to a point you know you had you had a relationship with someone and I'm using that example because this is a person who is in a relationship yes he's in the public domain but the photos that they took that were meant for private consumption here they are on a blog they're being shared on WhatsApp they're still on Instagram and now they're viral how can you protect such a person because that's already cyberbullying and of course maybe this person said they tried to threaten him and tell him if you can't give me you know 100k I'm gonna post these photos why is it not possible for us to have like maybe I'll say like a regulator app or a regulator software where it prevents someone from leaking private photos of another person without their consent I think online consent should be there is it possible to have that? yeah you see some of these things happen during the good times people share their images willingly because maybe they're still in a relationship and life is good it's happening a lot where we are seeing an increase in cases of extortion revenge porn yes revenge porn where people have shared videos of themselves in bits to heart the other person or to trigger a mental health blah blah blah there's so many incidents that we're dealing with on a daily basis people are sending us messages can you please help me this person I shared this video I did this I did that and also what's happening is even the scammers the scammers are very smart nowadays in fact most of them are IT experts most of them yeah so what they do is they send requests especially it's happening to a lot of women they send them friends request and then they start befriending them and then one relationship begins and then they trick them into sending them videos of themselves in compromising positions and stuff like that and then once they have those videos they use those videos they get a lot of money from their victims and things like that so it's very difficult to regulate it because some of the images are shared by people willingly it's just that the other person then when things go sour then the other person uses it in a way that as a weapon it's just to teach people to be cautious be careful who you share your videos with in terms of how you manage we want to enjoy the freedom of using our devices the way we wish or the way we want to use them take videos of ourselves doing whatever it is that we want to do but what you should ensure you do at all times is make sure that your device is always locked make sure that you don't share your content even your pictures the gallery you can lock the gallery you can store pictures somewhere where nobody can access them except you be cautious who you are sharing your pictures your images your videos with and what has been happening actually we've seen people sharing with strangers just because we meet online yeah I know it's nice we want to be like the guys you know overseas you know online relationships online dating getting into that which is actually taking over the world by storm we are also embracing it here Tinder is here Tinder is here and all that even though if this is a genie or it's a ghost or it's a real person you know about the Tinder Swingler those are real life stories exactly you know that is not just some movie somewhere no no no those are real life incidents people getting tricked into these blackmail blackmail and all that so but what we are saying is think about it do you know this person do you trust this person before you share before you even share a number because like you said there's a lot of excitement somebody is meeting somebody new online I'm so excited it's a lab let me just give them my number within a short time your details are gone and you're wondering what possibly wrong could I have done absolutely and online safety can even help you with your physical safety these incidents where people have met online and because you know people were not cautious online then it leads to hey can we meet you know then when they meet in real life the worst happens the worst can happen actually this happened I mean in Botswana there was an incident of a girl who was murdered by a guy this guy had been in jail before for murder so that was a murderer right so the girl sees a handsome the profile picture looks very nice because you know how we present ourselves of course make sure the profile picture online ID right so she likes the profile picture right so when they meet in real life she's like nah sent to Tinder like are you the same Chris Brown I saw on Tinder how come how come you are darker than the Chris Brown I saw on Tinder yeah the guy's like you know what you're playing I travel 500 kilometers to come and meet with you you can't tell me that and then the guy got pissed off and then he killed her now you see if she had been cautious right online at the beginning and that's what online safety is all about if she had been cautious at the beginning she wouldn't have ended up being mad at by a stranger by a stranger she allowed herself into that situation because she did not take pre-caution online so anything can happen whether it ends up being mad at whether it's ended up being lost people being scammed data being lost you know computers being hacked systems being hacked it ends up with our you know our psychological you know our thinking you know in terms of you know when we receive these things when we find ourselves in these positions you know we should ask ourselves questions you know am I sure about what I'm about to do right how safe is this right have I ticked all the safety boxes right and that's what do I know even sometimes and you also reminded me when you're logging into an app or trying to download the app for the first time and use it there's really that user interface yes the caution as well like we don't read that like what are some of the terms and conditions of using this app for us you want to go to place just accept accept install you're logging in you know they've given you disclaimers there's people who've also been suspended out of you know abusing you know some social media platforms because you never read the terms and conditions and here you are yes absolutely and now even with our children exactly we have Wi-Fi connections by our children you know tablets they play games they watch videos on YouTube you know so if we don't teach children from the beginning at a very early stage about online safety so you can imagine children are still young they haven't learned much about you know what's wrong and what's right you know what could happen and the consequences of their actions so really it's also to you know make sure that parents at home it has to start at home and when we say online safety should be about everyday life we even meet we meet at home you know in the morning you know parents talking to their children okay you know what your child is doing online you know what websites they are visiting and you know you teach them where to go where not to go these games like roadblocks I don't even know about roadblocks this is a game where children can play with other kids you know from wherever you know they could be here in Kenya playing with other kids you know and what happens is predators actually use these games you know they create profiles and pretend to be kids so as to you know manipulate kids and get access to other kids and you know a girl will be here and that is child trafficking again I don't mind if you talk about that as well like how can cyber security awareness be used to child trafficking because it's it's happened a lot of course overseas but how can we curb that using cyber security or NS I think in Africa not so much child trafficking but human trafficking you know in Africa we are looking for opportunities overseas we are looking for jobs overseas we are dying we are dying to go overseas right so we go online in this fake websites you know and we are promised jobs you know it happened here in Kenya you know there were guys in Dubai in Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia who ended up in you know horrible situations because they thought they were excited like oh I got a job in Saudi Arabia but my flight is fully paid and accommodation you know only to go there they are feeding a dog so it's the same as what we were talking about earlier in terms of you know when you find yourself in a position where you are trafficked you know that means who is at the beginning you know are you sure is this a legitimate you know recruiting firm who are these guys you know if you have to call someone ask them have they worked with anybody in Kenya you know do they have any people that they have hired in Kenya can they give you their number so you can call and verify these things verification online is key nowadays for your safety for the safety of your digital assets you know just make sure that you tick all the boxes so that you don't end up in horrible situations I mean you know we have Africans losing money to fraudulent universities you know because now you know technology enables us to study online online courses short courses you want to get your masters in two minutes they will promise you Harvard and they are like Harvard in one month they are over masters let me let me sign up very fast and pay the money yeah so online safety is all about the basics alright when you walk out of this building you know Africans generally we are cautious you know who's this guy what do they want you know even when somebody comes to you and say hey my brother I just wanted to ask what time is it for directions and that's it you are already clutching your bar you know why is this guy coming to me and asking for directions or even time so but when he gets when we go online we forget we forget those things this guy says my country extended some one month yeah and this guy says he has you know 10 million US dollars stored somewhere in a Swiss bank account and they want to send it to my bank account why not but I have to send them 20,000 dollars for them to send me you know what is this business so you see these things so that's what online safety is all about saying guys it's very simple it's about the basics right it's about the basics making sure that you ask yourself these questions you know you are very cautious before you act you know verify and you know teach your children about online safety you know Indian organization teach your stuff about online safety in our society in our communities make sure that you know online safety becomes part and parcel of our everyday lives just like road safety you know you know in every government there's a department of transport in every country there's a department of transport and they do you know road safety awareness campaigns and things like that you know and that's what we are trying to do to say you know technology is now part of our everyday lives it's part of our social lives you know online safety should also be you know integral in our you know education systems at schools it should be incorporated into our curriculums and children from early stage so that they don't bully others you know children are suffering from you know online bullying they're excited because they can do whatever you know without thinking about the consequences or because there's nobody out there to say you know what I will make sure that I give you one or two whips you know so that's what we are trying to do say interesting there's this story that captured my I think it's UK trying to ban tiktok there and then also the US partly think it was in San Francisco where one of the leaders came out and say we don't tiktok to be used in our country anymore and one of the defense lawyers said we can't ban tiktok now because we feel like it's an up a lot of people are using to express themselves when it comes to content creation especially overseas now you can earn money from tiktok not as much as in Kenya because in Kenya you have to do endorsements now in those other countries they are something that they know that perhaps we also need to know rightly in Kenya you see what is happening with tiktok the US government has banned the use of tiktok in government facilities Canada has learned the same and I think some countries in Europe as well it's more of a national security issue than it is a cyber security issue because tiktok is you know Chinese owned and the consents from you know in China you know companies are subjected to regulations that require them to disclose you know information to Chinese authorities whenever there is a need for such to happen on the app on the app you know so obviously tiktok being a Chinese owned company would have to do that so the US government and all these other governments are concerned about is if we allow our information tiktok that means chances of that information ending up in the hands of Chinese authorities are high because tiktok as a Chinese owned company is subjected to requirements in China to disclose whatever it is that the Chinese government may need at whatever time so that's really what the issue is all about more than it is a cyber security issue so yes I mean obviously this tiktok is growing this phenomenal growth with tiktok now uptake all around the world but it's just about national security right and I'm sure data privacy and management comes in you know you can think about that as well you know data privacy is one of the things that you know cyber security covers to say you know we put our data we store our data online and you know we don't know who's in charge of this data and what they can handle right so what countries are doing is they're coming up with data protection regulations data protection laws so as to you know safeguard the privacy of you know your Internet users because you know it could be a Facebook it could be a Twitter you know they are storing that data wherever they are storing it and they are using that data however they are using it and we have no control because like you said earlier maybe in those in those in those terms of condition and conditions Twitter says you know what we will use your data we will share your data with their parties but they do that anyway you know like for instance if you start searching for something on Google right automatically you start seeing the ads if you start searching for let's say holiday destinations when you go on Facebook you start seeing because the algorithms are linked you start seeing ads about holiday destinations did I tell Google to share my data I did because you know when you know all those cookies accept cookies accept cookies that's how we do it and once you accept you ensure you've given them your full data I've told them that do whatever you know track me however you want and use whatever that data however you want to use it right interesting is there maybe some of the measures that especially from your end where you see that you guys have brought on the table and now since you're in Kenya and you said it's a very short visit and you talked to the government to ensure that there's measures that will also help Kenyans to stay safer online yes basically as the African Cyber Smart Network we are made up of organizations in different countries that already work with governments in those countries to you know run programs for the public for society on online safety we are currently gathering in Kenya attending the Digital Rights and Inclusion Forum where we are discussing ways through which we can you know enhance intensify you know the advancement of digital rights the protection of society online you know so in every country so we have representatives coming from different countries who are gathering to discuss ways through which we can work together to address this this matters and help Africans stay safe online and also enjoy their rights and enjoy their freedoms online right yes and I love the fact that also nowadays now I think it's on Spotify or iTunes where they're trying to actually customize like if it's African music it has an African icon like it's relatable to Africans you know trying to like give them some sort of online identity absolutely absolutely because you know Africa is a huge market I mean close to a billion people and these tech companies are looking also because you know our internet penetration is still low but it's growing fast right so if you are a US tech company and you want to grow because growth has stagnated in these large markets and you want to grow you focus on Africa you create products for Africa and that's why they are doing that right you had earlier on mentioned identity theft and I thought of a friend a count was hacked and then all of a sudden they are seeing this person posting about Forex you know trading what could have possibly have happened and then this person is again texting and messaging all the people that he was interacting with in the DMs what could have possibly happened and what can he do to solve that because this person is abusing his identity online and that again comes to digital footprints in Africa especially on Facebook Instagram as well as Twitter and how it happens is we click on links from strangers that we don't know where they come from and remember most of us already save our passwords we save our passwords on our devices right so our passwords are stored somewhere on our devices so where should we sell them now because I believe they should be there yes but you need their password managers that are secure right and most of us don't use password managers that are secure so you you just because you know some of these platforms you just say remember my password you click remember my password it's good you think it's good remember your password but what then happens is then you receive a link from a stranger you click on that link that link leads to a website that is installed with a malware that malware is then you know your password and then it asks for your email to login again to login aha so that happens then the person who sent you that link then is able to access your your accounts right and then that's how identity theft happens then they click into your then they then they hack your accounts and then they take over your accounts also how identity theft happens is I mean and this is happening they can just get a lot you know you go on Facebook and you find that everything is open even to strangers simple things like you know where you post pictures showing off where you enjoying life going on getting late getting late absolutely so what then happens is I can look at your account and then create another account using your name yeah a pseudo account using your name I already have access to your pictures right anybody can just go online go onto your account and then scroll through and see all your pictures so I can just take your pictures screenshot them or save them save them and then create an account right and then I just check who are his friends and then I start sending your friends messages messages and say I'm stuck somewhere I need 10K I need 10K I need this I need that you know and using your account to there's a lot of Bitcoin scamming as well you know exactly yeah and using your account and forex trading and then I'll use your account to scam people remember I took a lot of data a lot of content from you so I've created a profile that looks genuine right because this profile has a lot of pictures surely when somebody looks at it it's like even followers as well and even followers and even followers so what we advise people to do is it was nice at the beginning going on social media having 5,000 friends right but make sure that the people that are your friends on social media are people that you know you know people that you trust or what you do yes you want to use social media also to grow your network right that is fine but what you should do is make sure that you can you can set every picture everything that you post to you know you can set it to say no this should be seen by this person and shouldn't be seen by anybody else like you restrict people you restrict access you are allowed to restrict a person who should view your status and who should not who should message you and who should not even whatsapp nowadays you are able to make your status private yes absolutely so that's what we advise people to do restrict access make sure that you only give access to people that you know and trust as we come to the close when comes now parents in the household you had mentioned that earlier on though but you know the kids of nowadays everybody wants to at least be on social media as early as five years in other countries like I'm sure like the US at five years they already bought them like a mobile gadget a gadget that they can access games they can talk to other friends as well now when it comes to regulating especially now in Kenya what should the parents consider even also when it comes to programming for TV and now that we have smart TV where kids can log into Netflix you know have those passwords watch some programs is there something that you know should be considered or should be put in place to ensure that you know parents in Kenya are filtering what their kids are consuming in terms of also programming in terms of the games and what not yeah I mean apart from parental controls that are in you know most of these platforms you know it requires a lot from us now parents in this era you know that means you need to be actively involved in your child's technology use on a regular basis you know monitoring you know what websites they are visiting what they are consuming online but the most effective measure really is about you know teaching them the values you know when we were growing up as children yes we were playing on the streets but we knew our parents would talk to us about you know when you're out there on the streets you know this is how you conduct yourself so you came home with those values and it should work the same way you know it's just that you know we most parents we're also busy you know with technology on a daily basis you get into a house you find that the mom is busy there on their phone the dad is busy there the laptop the child is busy there the kids are busy there some are in their rooms lock themselves in their room they only come out to go to the kitchen to grab something to eat and then go back you know so it requires a lot from us now as parents in this era to get engaged to get involved because there's a lot happening online we need to be hands on on a regular basis because if you're not if you don't teach them those values if you don't instill those values in them you know you can imagine you know when they go online they're getting influences from all over the world you know back in the days you know our parents only worried about whatever influences that we could get from the streets with our peers now it's online now it's online your child goes online they're getting influences from Australia from China from America from the UK you know so it really requires a lot from us as parents to really be engaged be involved on a regular basis but now I'm also thinking from a parent who's not tech savvy for example they're from the rural areas and here they are exposed to these devices here there's a smart TV here's an iPhone here's a tablet and a laptop how can they get that information very fast and then become tech savvy because it also includes learning like we need to learn together and work this journey together to a point we are now united yeah absolutely in other countries like China for instance I've seen they have a program for the elderly cyber security skills for the elderly where they teach you know the elderly about cyber security awareness in Bosona we have a program called Cyber Smart Champions so what we do is we go to communities we want to get the message out at a community level in rural areas so we set up cyber clubs and then these cyber clubs are made up of young people who are tech savvy who then go out into their communities to teach you know the elderly children you know just members of their communities about online safety you know we've gotten to a point where you know I remember when HIV AIDS first you know came out you know you know countries were very aggressive to make sure that there's education public education sex education at schools so we've gotten to a point where we need to do it we need to tackle cyber security in that manner where we make sure that because governments are taking services online you know we have the elderly people calling us to say you know I've never used an email now I want to check how far they are with processing my pension and they're telling me that I should send them an email where do I start you know things like that you know so I'm trying to call then they're saying they don't process you know claims through phone I must send an email so that means even at that level the elderly people in rural areas so it's not just about people in urban areas anymore people in rural areas the message needs to spread as fast as the technology itself is spreading alright my second last question before we get to how people can reach services I read somewhere this quote was very interesting it talked about what mental hygiene is not just what you eat it's also about what you read what you watch what you write online and then later on while scrolling the internet there's this Hollywood rapper by name Kanye West who is also a producer he said porn ruined his life and his family and his career and then he mentioned a certain adult movie that he watched when he was so young for the rest of his life online he kept on checking websites and what not and that's literally addiction now now for people that are addicted to their mobile phones constantly visiting sites you're constantly checking on Instagram who has texted me who has responded oh this celebrity has posted this photo blah blah blah what not how can we help people that are suffering from that and I believe it's a medical problem it needs to be treated yeah it's a condition so I you know and when at the beginning I said I'm a cyber psychologist by profession because I studied cyber psychology at master's level in the UK and what cyber psychology really is all about is about understanding the effects of inappropriate use of technology on people psychological and social well-being yes increasingly we are seeing incidents of technology addiction these platforms are addictive you know when you your smartphone you can scroll right right that is deliberately designed to keep you scrolling and the more you scroll there's always a fresh feed there's always a fresh feed there's always a fresh feed there's always a fresh feed right so if you are not led to these things you might end up in a situation where you get hooked right right so I think in South Korea they have rehabilitation centers for gaming addicts right parents take yeah because gaming is very addictive you know you buy your you buy your children you know Xbox this PlayStation this PS4 5 and the rest PS4 5 and the rest and then you're thinking yeah you laugh them and then they spend the whole day the whole night playing these games and then they get addicted and then at school they don't perform because usually you will see the effects through you know like academic performance you know if it's an adult at work they're not performing they're spending so much time on Facebook even you think they're doing work they're on Facebook you know so what we do as cyber psychologists is really to help people with something we call digital wellness right and we're encouraging organizations to introduce you know our digital wellness programs you know help people deal with the you know negative effects of inappropriate use of technology excessive use of technology because you can become addicted you use it excessively and then it leads to mental you know mental health symptoms that you need to do with and then you can imagine it happens with children I mean I have a I have a 10 year old son you know I noticed later on that you know I bought him a tablet when he was like two years old so he's been using pretty early pretty young you know and then by the time he got to school I realized that he was a slow learner you know I took him to a psychologist and they diagnosed him with ADHD and attention deficit disorder you know so when he's in class you know he's when he's coming out I want to go home and play I want to go home and you know you know do this and that on my gadgets right and then as I started talking about these things opening up and going on TV going on radio and then other parents coming out and say we have the same problem we have the same problem at my house you know so these things are happening and then I started to Instagram until I deleted the app I'm like why do I keep on checking who's updating want and want for example those people that follow like the fanatics of Soka they follow Cristiano Ronaldo you're always checking where is he hanging out next or a Kenyan you know social light or influence they're always checking or maybe somebody you're competing with professionally and it's giving you pressure to keep up absolutely and you know you become restless you know there's anxiety so it leads to anxiety you become anxious you want to check as quick as possible and then if that doesn't happen it can actually lead to depression exactly yeah we have so many people that have come out to admit that they ended up in depression because of the way they were using technology so appropriate use of what is appropriate use of the internet and technology you limit it you control it okay I'm going to go for 10, 15 minutes then I'm going to do something else I'm going to grab a book I'm going to go out I'm going to work out my garden I'm going to do this keeping yourself busy and even children at home as an adult making sure that you give them chores in the house that can take them away from their devices go out the thing and the reason I was saying as parents now we are demanded to do more go out play soccer with them I don't remember my dad the last time you played soccer with your kids so yeah these things are real these things are real they say we may not have okay in the west and the western world it's west but people tend to say you know what in Africa we're not there yet even the internet penetration is still very low but it's not true it's not true man these things are real you can go online with just a few cents right and buy data and go online so just think about it and access that outside and get addicted become a victim like Kanye West so you see if you don't talk to your teenagers about because now back in our days pornography you needed to have a VHS tape you know and get it and play it on TV right now pornography you can just access it on your phone right so if you have teenage boys or teenage girls at the house they can explore with these things and hide in their room and do whatever they want to do which is why for us as parents to keep monitoring and making sure that we even guide our children on what to do what not to do online and even showing them that teaching them about the negative effects right it has reminded me of a friend who was saying that nowadays when you lose your smartphone it looks like you are out of touch with reality and life and you feel like you just can't settle like you can't even move ahead because if you don't have a smartphone so fast and you're behind schedule until you get a smartphone that's when you feel mentally settled which I feel like is a problem I don't know what's your feedback on it yes absolutely you know these devices are immersive it's like when you go in you really go in with all your senses right you go in with all your senses that's why when you don't have access it really affects you psychologically and you become what it is you know anxiety can lead to so many medical conditions including depression true exactly now as we finish up I want you to say your call to action on matter cyber security what is your message to people out there or in other words if you're to give a TED talk about you know cyber security just in brief in less than a minute what would you tell people and then as well as if you want to access your services and get to support you or plug in on what you're trying in a minute out there where can they find it and how can they get in touch with you this is your camera alright thank you so much good morning Nairobi good morning Kenya cyber security basically as my main message is no longer just a matter for IT professionals it's a matter for us all if you have your digital device you have a smartphone you go online your children at home they play games online they watch videos online they use tablets they use smartphones cyber security is for us all it is important to ensure that we become very cautious about our actions online it is important that we teach our children online at organizations it is important that we teach all our members of staff to use the internet safely responsibly and meaningfully we have the African cyber smart network which is a community of cyber security awareness especially from different countries in Africa you can find us on different social media platforms we are on Facebook the African cyber smart network we are on Twitter at Afro CyberSmart we are also on YouTube so you can check us out there our contact details are also in there so you can send us an email at info info at cybersmart.org info at African sorry info at africancybersmart.org that email address again info at africancybersmart.org so if you have any questions you can reach us on that email and we'll be more than happy to engage with you thank you alright I feel like you've given a lot and possibly if anyone is staying to plug in right now they know where to access you and what you're offering and it's such an amazing thing to have a foreigner come to Kenya to offer some of the things that we ourselves we should be learning right here but you're here to help us you know to know thank you so much I really appreciate the opportunity right Africa we are one place yes I may be coming from a different country but when I'm in Africa I'm home I'm in one place and that's what is important and true true have you traveled overseas or yes I've been I've been all over the world UK US Germany Netherlands thank you great next time and share we tag along I think you said thank you we're more than happy to all right you're welcome I've been speaking to David Moypen who is a cyber security awareness specialist right yes right just sharing with us insights on how to be safe online as a parent as a young adult as a radiant adult you know you've definitely gotten the insights right here on why in the morning and this juncture right now we're going to take a very short break Calamival is going to be coming up next it's going to be to we're just about to dance so if you have two left feet it's time for you to do the courier so so let's take a break at 224 channel at Brian's at one of the hashtag times day vibes mine is at Brian's at one of the at 224 underscore channel on Insta okay stick around