 By the way, yeah, Frattl-Fox works on EEG classification, which is that thing where they measure the electricity in, what's the proper definition of it? By the way, they do something with electricity that is going on in your brain. And yeah, he's into neurofeedback research and does software for non-invasive computer vision-based wildlife identification, which is a very cool thing, I believe. Yeah, this was your biography in a couple of sentences made very, very badly. Anyway, yeah, so... Oh, hello. Ah, perfect, okay. Yeah, so please give him a big round of applause for his talk. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for joining the session. Yeah, I put some crappy description of what I'm actually doing. So the wildlife thing is actually a separate project. So what I'm basically doing, EEG, BCI research, and yeah, and so this is what I actually want to talk about, because recently I felt like I was waking up in the future, I mean, because we have all this new technology right now happening, like rejuvenating cells, what is it, open AI, like driving cars, self-driving cars, everything. Like it's tangible, almost, and so now we have brain-computer interfaces and also made affordable and to the point where you can say it becomes reliable, actually. And yeah, so but of course, always with new technology, there might be some people who want to misuse it and so like there's a great responsibility coming. And so I know this place here, I find probably the most progressive people around technology and that's why I want to share this update, actually, update on the BCI progress that we did already last year with Metamind and Mazahil. And yeah, all right, so let's get started. So yeah, this is basically where we want to head. Okay, so, but yeah, I know a lot of people probably know something about or know maybe a lot about BCI, but I have to be fair and just give a little introduction first, so for the people who don't know. And yeah, then I will talk, of course, about the challenges or things that actually are going to be relevant and also give a view over the consumer devices that are currently available and all the open source approaches right now. And okay, so yeah, here we go. Bear with me, this is just the basics right now. I try to keep it short. So what is EG? EG is basically it's Electroencephalography. You have this, you have this beautiful plot here. This is actually what we can measure on the surface of the head. And that's what Hans Berger and the 20s found out. You can do it also with humans. So you put this electrodes and somebody's closing the eyes and then he opens it and you have a totally different pattern of brain waves. And so yeah, it's a non-invasive brain imaging method and it's probably one of the best known so to say and okay. And so yeah, this is like maybe a typical mount, so you have like electrodes and you place them in a certain areas that correlate of course to brain activity and different areas of the brain and then you get this signal and so basically it's, you can interpret it as how many times a second does a wave go up and down and then you can do an analysis on this. You have the frequency analysis. For instance, that's something that's being done quite often actually. And so what else can you do? You can do the unmix, the signal and then you for instance have, you can determine the arousal state. Like so how awake are you? Are you almost falling asleep or did you just have like a bunch of coffee and yeah, like this kind of scale. You can, we can see here, this is the typical scale. Of course there's also different activity and yeah, so basically we can do so much more actually with this in combination also with machine learning of course. And so, but let's just have a slight definition here just to, so you can see like the basic difference or how we can operate actually a brain-computer interface. So like this is. So this was the end of it? No, it's okay. Okay. Okay. All right. Perfect. So yeah. Okay. So like three basic way to differentiate we have active, active brain-computer interface where you for instance think about your left or right hand and of course need some training and then yes, you can directly control the device with thought. It's one approach. Then you have reactive where you show certain stimulus that means, so you show something like maybe something visual or something auditory and you have a certain reaction and then also you have passive ones. Those are the ones that you probably won't notice much. It's kind of tweaking your user experience. And so you probably won't even notice them. And yeah, so this is like a very basic circuitry of brain-computer interfaces where you have the user and then you have the electrodes. We do amplification. I mean, this is a very simplified approach right now. Then the filter AD converter and then we send it to a software. We do some pre-processing because of course we also have a lot of noise in the data. Then we really looked for the data that we can use, the feature extraction and then we have some machine learning algorithm that can run a command based on the interpretation. And okay, so yeah, so as I said, so it really depends on where I put the electrodes and there's so many possibilities actually here and this is only a crude map of course. So but yeah, for instance, spelling computer is something very nice I think. So you just see maybe a screen with the alphabet and so the letter you're thinking of maybe the line is then highlighted. And so we can measure actually, this is then the letter you're thinking of is actually the target stimulus here in this P300 scheme and then this is like a different reaction. We can really measure this to anything else, like anything that's not the letter you're right now thinking of. And of course yes, so maybe you saw already also the videos where people can actually control by thought exoskeletons and prosthetics. And yeah, so and next something that's also now very popular for the commercial consumer products is the near feedback. And so what what is basically is you can learn you can really train your brainwave activity and and so the way it works is you we constantly measure actually your brainwave data then we do the processing and we have an interpretation is this going near to the state of well being you want to be maybe then we give in this moment we give a reward. So in this the reward is a sound and then you say like oh okay that was the sound this is great and your brain tries to reproduce the sound. So at the same time you're changing your brainwave activity and you're brought some samples examples this more maybe for clinical and medical use of course. But yeah, so that's the hacky thing of course you don't have to be sick to use near feedback you can still optimize your brainwave activity. And yeah, so and then also for artists is a nice thing it's easier than never to make an interactive installation where you can have an audio visual feedback maybe you can design it it's just nuances of your arousal state and also maybe in combination with somebody you're doing it together with so it's a whole new it's a new experience something new that you can really feel so I tried so we did I did a similar set of also at a sorry the festival and it was quite interesting with two people and I can really say it's something special and yeah worth sorry really worth trying. So then neuro gaming so this is basically the gamification of neurofeedback so also there was the second conference on neurogaming already in San Francisco this year. Okay and then there's this new approach not so new approach but now new approach and consumer the consumer landscape is to combine EEG or to use TDCS a transcranial direct current stimulation or transcranial alternating current simulation which is basically zapping your brain the problem is there's not much there's no long-term studies so far I mean people say it's nice it's like wow I feel like I drank a bunch of coffees and I'm so active okay but I don't know can you can you do without is it something that less it's not so sure so yeah some scientists also who say yeah you can try it out but you should be careful definitely what you're doing you should be knowing what you're doing okay so maybe just give a quick overview the methods this is not all of them this is just the ones I found interesting here is the p300 that was the one where you respond to a certain stimulus the target stimulus and the spare computer for instance and there's no learning involved really then we at the steady state visually evoked potentials this is where you can for instance have a blinking light and a certain frequency and you will have you can actually read this in the occipital so in your visual cortex you would have a certain response to this and so this is also maybe an example of a reactive BCI then we have slow critical potentials SMR motor imagery this is again the active one and yeah this is yeah also quite good one so okay but yeah let's just have a quick look at the consumer devices right now and first okay we should clarify what are we looking for what what would be the criteria to say this is a good device or this is a bad device so I just thought of a few points of course depending on what you want to do they might be different so but of course the first thing is cost I mean so you maybe don't want to waste $50,000 and then say oh wow okay I can control make a robot go in the circle and the other one and wow nice $50,000 so okay maybe a little less and but what's really important is the specificity and the reliability so you don't want to buy some stuff and and see oh it's all it's just a it's noise in the data so like I mean you should ask yourself is really brainwave coming out of this thing so I'm not going to point a finger at any commercial product right now because I only have 10 but so like it's really it's really something you want to look at it's really essential thing you want to have clear data or clean data and okay so the next thing is the hardware and software degrees of freedom so to say this is then more of course interesting for hackers I guess if you have the chance to change some parts change electrodes and of course what's also essential then to have the raw data access and and then ergonomics I mean you don't want to waste 10 minutes trying to set up your eg a bci device not maybe even 30 seconds that really sucks because like every time you want to try at night at some point during the day and and then you fiddle around the whole time and then it's like it's a turnoff you don't you don't want to deal with this the whole time well of course yeah depending on what you want to do so and then one important thing is the product safety and security so safety I would say of course you don't get electrical you don't get a shock from the system there's not as dead circuit or something and security I will come to this later this is also one point and okay so just yeah I know this is um this is just a few devices I picked there's no um so to say um yeah just like the yeah right now popular ones but there are also other ones of course if you do some research the nearest guy mindwave is kind of um I think popular um does a good job and has good connection uh I mean it's easy to mount and uh and they at least have a hardware DIY guide this nice um then the emotive I was working with two years but I was kind of the the epoch and I was kind of annoyed to put this to other people's head actually because yeah if those people have a lot a lot of hair are you really sitting there sometimes 10 20 minutes and the guy's asking like what's happening I don't know nothing's nothing's really um yeah am I waiting for something yeah the electrodes yeah it's not really working uh and uh yeah that's also again as I said a turn off uh but I'm really um uh yeah I'm curious about the inside I think it's uh actually just launched and the interax mules also looks like ledgered headset melon I put here I couldn't um so they couldn't give me the the data sheet really but it's also very affordable um all right so um okay so what is the the progress so if you look at the devices they all have dry electrodes that means not like it used to be you have to put gel to have good uh conduct uh connectivity it's different now um so like dry electrodes but the problem is um you have to make sure you really um you get a higher higher impedance and then it's very sensitive to to noise you can really get nice very easily so you have to think about the um design of your circuitry and of course yeah the the algorithms rhythms get better and it's um something that improves of course but um if the signal is bad in the beginning um sometimes there's not much you can do and uh yeah then you don't have to work in VCI actually um oh okay there was one too fast uh the okay so then let's move on to the open source um DIY um and uh so yeah um so of course the time is a little bit too short to to um go in detail about the hardware setup but uh we're gladly gonna help you guys if you come by we can um talk talk on the details of the hardware implementation really um but yeah and also I um now just pick like a few devices uh again um that uh projects that either have introduction like a tutorial how to do a device for yourself or that already offer maybe um like a kit or something that you can really start um doing you uh doing VCI um okay so um here just um the list then the open eg project I think it has been uh and it's quite popular this has been online for a long time on the source forage page and they're doing a really good job they also have a lot of tutorials there and um so and then they say it's like something between 200 and 400 uh dollars to have um to build the device by yourself but then you also have a company that basically um assembled this all in the box um and uh and then also um yeah probably also heard about the openbci.com project this is um where you can really 3d print also um the eg or bci um device and uh and you have um a different approach also more electrodes um but also like one with four um and then the openbci.org um the one that comes from from Metamind and Masahiro and uh with over 30 years of research and um this is also one um there can be stacked and uh the amount of electrodes and we can be used either with a Arduino uh Uno or you can use basically you can exchange also the microcontroller here um yeah so but yeah what is the the core difference what is why would you either pick the one or the other um so again it really depends on what you're planning to do is it something you want to do at home some simple setup or you want to make uh research low budget research so to say you want to have um holistic recording with um a lot of electrodes um so you have to think about that but um so like maybe one core difference is also the ad converter that Masahiro picked for um the brain Arduino so you can use it uh actually better with dry electrodes um so yes it's more um it's actually easier to start with it um do this setup and um yeah okay um just maybe then a few words to the electrodes because this is the thing that you cannot um um I mean you didn't have for the consumer devices um um but like with um with the hacker devices you can really just say okay I want this or that um the very um something that is also in the scientific realm you have the like a standard is the um electrodes which are like a cup and then they're basically the materials um something um silver gold or tin um then you have big differences um passive and active electrodes so passive means um I just make I have an electrode and then goes maybe over wire and then you have the amplification but on the way um it's a problem that you maybe get some signal noise also because of electromagnetic fields for instance um the active electrode on the opposite is you amplify the signal right after the electrode and um which makes a better contact then a better signal um okay and then also something very new you have um bendable electrodes I saw publication I think there's also coming up so something very ergonomic um and uh yeah of course and also you can you can hack um electrodes uh you can just take um some silver coins and solder to them to a screw and then connected uh works perfect um yeah okay and then software um so I only also picked a few of course um there's much more um but like OpenVik is one of those that's quite um has been there for a long time also and um you have a visual editor and you have all the machine learning and all the filters there also and um like a lot of tools and uh yeah brain base also unfortunately only for Windows but um um then Neurom was also new software um it's not open source but it's free to use um so yeah but I would suggest for the beginning or you have maybe some other toolboxes for for MATLAB if you do it like in the research field um but OpenVipe is always a good thing to go I think um the beginning and so one one important thing I want to talk about is uh really privacy issues um maybe still it feels like it's an early stage but if you think about it if if brain computer interfaces become more popular like you know used used to be like Fitbit maybe or something like that and now it's you quantified the the body now you quantified the mind and become popular then you should ask yourself um what happens with my data with my brainwave data because there's actually some things that you can do with it and uh yeah so let's just um take a look at those um titles here um so uh the headlines and brain wave privacy standard is needed to prevent spying on eG data scan data research as one um so okay um Buffins proposed brainwave privacy standard eG data can predict illness and app makers are storing it in the cloud I think wow that's shit I don't want that that's really something I want to um prevent so I think it's um it's a critical time that uh we should actually um get in uh uh get uh conversation and uh just discuss this really um because um yeah I don't know where this could be heading I mean I'm not overly paranoid but um you can imagine there's a lot of things you can really um use here uh misuse and uh yeah so basically something about health conditions cognitive performance um and then of course there was also publication talking about um achieving with the consumer device uh they found out the pin code once at first locations where no people you actually know um so all this data can be actually compromised and uh yeah so you have different stages of attack and um of course what we can do is with the open source um community we can of course um look if there's something maybe around the device uh maybe we can check out um we we can do um um we encrypt the brainwave data before we send it but um okay um no it's it's going to be hard anyways but we should discuss about it and um and uh yeah so um so again I would say the private standard is really something essential it's something we that should be discussed and uh um and then uh yeah so um then this is something that uh where I really want to also that's why I'm here also to discuss with um with you guys if if um there's some approach that um we can make a safer brainwave experience in the in the future um and yeah so um just come by by the neuro neuro hacking space and um yeah we can discuss we you can try out the device we have a lot of devices there from um all all sorts of um all the the consumer uh the um open source devices we listed are actually there and um yeah try out um test and then if you want if you want to hack something uh we're glad to help you um and answer all your questions and yeah again as I said so maybe you also have a good input for um so we can kind of go on with the privacy of brainwave data and um yeah and also for the for the brain reno project um there's going to be a kickstarter we want to make it more affordable um yeah also if you want to participate um yeah just come by again um yeah but that's basically it uh thank you for listening oh yeah questions right yeah there is already a question from the internet so please go thank you first question do you know of any plans to regulate the whole technology device that sends waves um and have the capability to you know temper with your brain shouldn't maybe be easily to to be allowed um yeah I'm not sure I mean the problem is sometimes you um I mean the consumer market then uh so like okay um I will repeat the question um so is there any way to to um excuse me yo shut up what okay there any approach um so I would say the problem is always the disclaimer uh like um mouse um like very small printed things um um and then you're not sure on the if you're a consumer of a yeah if you're buying consumer product um so from that point it's quite hard I think to to regulate at this point um but yeah I don't know if there would be like a standard like um like a redata standard um and a safety standard then maybe um this could be done but of course there's so many steps where you can attack this actually um so yeah it's quite a complicated um topic there is a question on the microphone in there oh yeah okay um you had the slide at the beginning where you outlined the basic flow of the data when it uh first it was analog taken from the brain then uh changed to dialogue data uh digital sorry um and uh there was a filtering process before that my question is is there a direct advantage of filtering the data before changing it to digital data and what sort of filtering is done there is it just a band pass or is there something else um it actually um so I mean this was quite simplified um graphic um because you have also different kind of amplifiers before um or instrumental um but um yeah so um this makes sense before you send it um further um but yeah maybe if you have the time maybe you can come around then we can um show you um like some detailed um schematics actually and try to explain why why does this make sense at this point um but yeah also I mean if you if you don't want to come by it's all online I can show um yeah um yeah sorry um to my left yeah there is a question in there hello uh about the epoch headset uh there was a small bullet point mentioning that it has a raw data hack could you please elaborate um yeah I mean I'm not sure if this I mean yeah I mean if you if you uh look in the search engine you you can um I mean it's quite easy to find um it's also in github I there's some forks of it and um yeah it's actually quite easy to use um um but yeah okay it's possible yeah hello uh you were talking about also um the dangers and the misuse that can be done with it the dangers and the misuse that could be done with it with the system um there will be misuse you know that it will come yeah I mean it's part of it so how as a scientist do you yeah work with that you know you yeah on the one hand you clearly know that it's good and all the good things that come out of it on the other hand it's a very very powerful technique technique I think um people should be able to decide by themselves if they want to share their brainwave data or not um and every action I do before this I want to make sure 100 percent that cannot be compromised um I think that would be um like maybe some opt-in if you can say okay I'm fine I put my raw data online in the cloud they can use it for um for analysis for like cloud analysis um yes definitely it's a it's a powerful tool um but yeah I think it should be opt-in there should be no compromising before that step do you also believe that it will sometimes you know in our society we uh we have the brain in the heart you know we take separate it I don't know why but this happens do you think it will lead to us um getting brain in the heart closer together again I mean once you know sometimes you don't know what you're feeling you know you you can't describe it do you think that that whole technique can help well I mean so basically I mean how how I think about newer feedback for instance is um it's like meditation with guidance so um like all the like the the research also going on with meditation you know kind of bring into the call what what does it really do what how it changes your brainwave chemicals really and in a profound way and I mean with this with this um I mean what's following this is that um you become more aware of course of your surroundings so maybe in a way this this brings this brings close together a heart and the mind so to say um yeah yeah thank you so there is a question to the microphone at my right yeah I think um PCI is quite interesting but since it's an it's an interface I'm interested in whether there are any methods of inducing brainwaves instead of just measuring them imagine a world in which you think of something and you got the Wikipedia article directly in your brain it would be quite interesting um yeah so like this is the um I mean there are different approaches right now non-invasively but in a way it is invasive you have the TDCS um but um I mean so the problem is you don't have like long-term research on this you can you can be your own guinea pig of course you can divide by the devices and just um check it out what it does um but so like this is you know like forcing brainwave activity the other thing I mean I try to explain the newer feedback is really um it takes some time but um there's like depending on what protocol you're using you can regulate also you can change brainwave activity and um the great thing about it it stays the way it's so it's not like um so like you're really building new bridges in your brain um I mean the same with TDCS but it's not forced and the problem with TDCS also it's like very unspecific right now at least it's like you're firing in every direction and um changing something forcefully um yeah thank you um there is time for one last question from the Signal Angel thank you my question from the internet goes along the lines of the last question could you elaborate a little bit on the brainwave training part um what's the status what are the benefits um yeah so I mean it's used right now um for instance to um like ADD like attention deficit disorder um it's an alternative to to Ritalin Hitalin you know that's like um basically it's an amphetamine that they're giving to children and um so it's very harmful for the body um but instead you can do newer feedback training actually um and um so I mean of course you have to do some practice and maybe you have to do also some follow-up practice but in the long run it helps you with the situation in a very good way also and um you don't have to take chemicals yeah I'm super sorry for you guys but we're running out of time and I've got to cut this short so yeah thanks a lot for the folks yeah also you can just come by