 Today we're going to talk about a guy named Paul Ansel and his girlfriend is Nicola or Nicola Bully. Greg, why don't you tell us about the videos we're going to watch? Yeah, as of the date of this video, Nicola has been missing for two weeks and the show that this comes from is a UK5 interview or UK5 program called Vanished, where's Nicola Bully? The first majority of people watching on, Nikki is a face on a poster at the moment. Tell us a bit about her, what's she like? She is fun, she is loving, if you're friends with her she's the most loyal friend that you could ever have, with Nikki what you see is what you get, there's no hidden, nothing is hidden, that's her and she is an exceptional mum and she absolutely adores our girls, goes above and beyond, saying to Emma the other day I don't think that she's been away from them for more than one or two nights since we've had our eldest and she is a pillar of strength to our family and without her the whole is bigger than you could possibly imagine. Hi, Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so what's she like and you instantly get some self soothing on the leg that removes his palm up and down the leg repetitively this self soothing I think we're going to see is quite a baseline for him. The other baseline I want you to look at is do you think his tone is optimistic or pessimistic as a good generality? He is going to self evaluate himself later on in this video as being an optimist but what do you think do you feel his tone is optimistic or pessimistic just keep that in mind the whole is bigger than you can possibly imagine there at the end and then we get contempt I believe now is that contempt for his girlfriend or is that contempt for the situation that he's in? One thing I want you to think about and it's important when we think about something in body language called Othello's error which is when some of the signals that come up in a situation you mistake for another situation that you have a bias around. If grief is the situation that he's in right now you have something called the stages of grief. One of those stages of grief involves anger, resentment and blame and eventually bargaining as well. We're going to see what I believe is bargaining later on as well but I think the contempt here is the contempt around anger, resentment and blame very probably for his missing partner here. To have resentment and blame and anger for your missing partner is a standard element of grief and it would be easy to mistake that for something nefarious when it's actually grief. That's all I got on that one. Greg, what do you think? Yeah guys, I love my wife and have zero doubt in who she is and if she disappeared tomorrow I would immediately be like something is up. However, there's a ton of other stuff that enters your head. A ton of other stuff is going to enter anybody's head. So when we think about that it's what happened before, it's did I have a part, there's all kinds of things that are going to go through a person's head along with that anger and all those pieces around grief. So what I want you to know is first of all, there's no magic in what we do. We can't read this guy's mind. We're not trying to. We're not mind readers. We're basing on lots of experience with people what we've seen in our experiences, what we've seen in body language, what we've seen in behavior and we're using what's normal for him in this conversation and when it deviates. So let's start off by talking about what's normal for him. A lot of people use their forehead to connect with other people. There's very low head or awkward forehead involvement with him. So very low or awkward forehead involvement with him. I have worked with autistics and with Asperger's in the past and it's one thing I noticed with them. So there could be a possibility somewhere in the autism spectrum, don't know, possible. But his style certainly has less forehead involvement than most folks we see. When he's talking about her, he drops his eyes down into the right. And while there are no absolutes, we typically associate a person when they're thinking of emotional facts. Think of some of yourself as having their eyes drift down into their right. He smiles as he describes in present tense, good both indicators. He punctuates with his brow as much as he does when he says you could ever have the best friend you could ever have. All these illustrators we're talking about is when a work person punctuates their thoughts with their hands, with body language or some kind. Then there's something in their eye associate with an unarguable fact when a person closes their eyes, shoulder shrugs and pulls their head away. That's an unarguable fact to them. It's just not they're not in intake. They're not going to listen. All of his illustrators, all of his hand use, all of those things are at the right time as he's speaking to punctuate his thoughts. Those are good. He's got adapters where you say he's rubbing his thigh mark and we're going to watch that and I'm going to show you later why I don't think it's in response to stress other than the basic stress. Adapters are things that make the unfamiliar familiar to us. So we do this, we may do something to comfort ourselves and because they comfort us, they also can become a habit quicker than any other thing. So what we're going to look for here is a cluster of behaviors that indicates something rather than looking for that one adapter. Will he rubbed his thigh or he touched his face? Chase, what do you got? I agree with you guys. And one thing I want to say that there's there's emotional accessing when he's thinking about what she's like, his eyes go down and to his right, which is where we humans look when we're thinking about emotional memories. We're recalling something that's truly and genuinely emotional. There's a few single shoulder shrugs here during this interview that we might expect to come out in these genuinely grieving people that we might see in those precise points. This constant self soothing, adapting behavior on the leg is something that I want to point out here. We see this in response to stressful situations or a desire to, you know, get comfortable because a person doesn't feel comfortable. It's a natural reaction. Stress does not always mean deception. So the one thing to take note of here about this self soothing behavior has nothing to do with the stress or the behavior at all. And I think it's more important than both of those things. And there's no the key thing is here that there's no compulsion for him to control it or hide it or prevent it from coming out. This shows us there's no internal desire to control stress responses which suggests we're dealing with someone who isn't trying to force a perception on us. The moment we see someone trying to control stress, we're seeing someone with a high degree of anxiety or we're seeing someone who's fully letting go and letting those signals come out and we're seeing that degree of fully letting go, which is a good sign for the videos that are coming up. Scott, I think that everybody's really hit on some good stuff. Mark, you're talking about the Othello error. And I think that's in Eggman's book Emotions Revealed. I think that's what it is. If not, it's in one of the in one of the biggies. That's a classic. And I'm glad you brought that up because that's real important here. And Greg, you were talking about how important the baseline is as to what we're seeing and how important that is. And Chase, of course, you nailed it with all the stuff you're talking about. In this first video, let's pay attention to what we're like we did last time. Let's pay attention to what we're not seeing, because most of the time when we focus on someone who's done something and quite often we know they've done it, so there's no big secret there. We're not pulling off some big magic trick. We're just showing you the things that pop up usually when someone's not being honest and we can take all the ones where we know somebody's lying and look at those and say and compare them to somebody who we don't know if they're lying or not and start comparing to how many of those same cues we see in the other person. Right. So that's that's what happens. So with your experience in doing this, that's where you get to be skilled at it. And you can say, well, I think this and you can and you can actually teach other people to do that. So it's from the experience of actually doing it. The years and years we've all studied and read studies and done studies and been part of things and been in those experiences. That's what gives us the the the perspective that we come from. So you're you're right on all that, Greg. It's it's this is not someone so far that we're looking at that is showing us deception. For example, in this video, everything is is as it should be for someone who didn't do what they're in question of being questioned about. You know, this guy is saying, did you kill your girlfriend or whatever? He's not saying that. But a lot of people on the internet think this guy, all the armchair, you know, body language, people saying, yeah, he did it because of this, this and this. But we're not seeing the things that tell us that he we're not seeing the cues of deception or cues of hiding things or cues of guilty knowledge that we would usually see in those videos. What he's talking about isn't comfortable to talk about. And that's why he's rubbing his leg, like Greg was saying. That's that's that's an adapter. He's trying to get rid of that built up stress and tension. Any, as Joan of Arles says, any repetitive behavior is a pacifying behavior. Any repetitive action or thing that you do, whether it's this or this or keep doing this with your eyes, those are repetitive behaviors. And that's how you get rid of that built up stress or tension. And that's what we're seeing throughout all these videos. It gets a little bit more intense as it goes. But we'll talk about that when they get there. His arms are open and his legs are open. And he's kind of he looks almost relaxed. So that's going to bother a lot of people too. But that's OK, because we're not seeing any what we term barriers. The barriers are anything you put between you and the other person. They could be your arm like this could be a a pen or a coffee cup. It could be anything, anything to put just so you can get some space or something between you and that other person. It doesn't mean you're being deceptive. It doesn't mean you're telling the truth. It's just you feel uncomfortable and you want something there. He doesn't want anything there. I think he's trying to get out everything he possibly can to help with this situation. So that's why he's sitting that way. And he's and the interviewer is sitting at an angle to him. They're not sitting straight on. So it doesn't seem confrontational quite often. And for me and interrogation, that's the way to do it. Some people want to sit straight on to him and do it like that. So when you for me personally, it's like Sid met. If this was a table, you'd sit here or the person would sit here and you'd sit down here somewhere. So you're at an angle. You're not confronting them when you walk up and talk to somebody. If you guys, when guys meet each other, they don't stand there straight on and talk to each other, you know, so they'll turn sideways. Yeah, but because it's not as confrontational when you when you first meet them, because we as an animal, take that as aggressive behavior. So he's not looking as he's talking. He's not looking for ways to be that he's being boxed in, that he's not paying attention to. He's not looking for those things to say, what's this guy saying? He's not locked in with wide eyes and really still everything he's doing. He's moving very fluid, very smoothly. Everything in this first video is as it should be for a person who is not guilty of what most people think they're they're guilty for. A lot of people think they're guilty for. He's not hiding anything. I'm not seeing anything as far as the deception goes. For the vast majority of people watching on, Nikki is a face on a poster at the moment. Tell us a bit about her, you know, what she like. She is fun. She is loving. She is if your friends with her, she is the most loyal friend that you could ever have. You know, she there's what with Nikki, what you see is what you get. There's no hidden, nothing's hidden, you know, it's all. That's that's her. And she she is an exceptional mom and she absolutely, you know, adores our girls. It goes above and beyond. I say it saying to Emma. The other day, I don't I don't think that she's been away from them, like for more than like one or two nights, you know, since since, you know, we've had, you know, our eldest and. She, yeah, yeah, she. There's a pillar of strength, you know, to to our. To our family and without her, you know, the whole is, you know, bigger than you could possibly imagine. Can I ask you to take us back to two weeks today? That morning of Friday, the 27th of January, was it a normal morning like like any other? It totally normal. So the only difference that morning was, you know, usually, you know, when you've got children getting up on a school day, you know, you probably know yourself as just mayhem, isn't it? Carnage, yeah, absolute carnage. So the only difference on that morning, two weeks ago was that there wasn't a lot of rushing. I came down and a lot of stuff was was already done. It was, you know, the girls were having a breakfast and everything was pretty much ready to go. I came down and Nicky went upstairs to get ready. And then, you know, the routine is basically if Nicky's taking the girls and Willow, when I hear her come down, I'll get them in the car, get them strapped in, get Willow in the boot and all that. And Nicky comes out, give her the keys and off the go. It's a well-oiled machine normally. And sometimes you walk the dog and take the kids to school and on that morning it was Nicky's job. Yeah. And then if it's my job, usually the roles are reversed. Yeah. So, yeah, again, it was just nothing out of the ordinary. Everything was normal, you know? Because my working hours, because I work for a US firm, so my hours are like six hours behind UK time. So I don't usually start work till a bit later in the morning. So when Nicky takes the girls to school, I then know that I've got like an hour to myself on that morning when she takes them. So I always quite look forward to that, you know, because I wave them off and I go in the house and put the kettle on, make a cup of tea. And I think. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, this is a good one because there's a ton of stuff in here. It starts off with heavy emotion. What happens to people when they get heavy emotion about anything is it changes their cadence, their demeanor, their speed. In a lot of cases, it'll make them ramp up if they're especially if they're like the type like Amber Heard. But if you remember the Chloe Smith parents in Australia, they were this way, it takes all your energy. It's like a wet blanket over and it slows you down and you see that in him. There's also this lip withdrawal that we usually associate with needing some reassurance or uncertainty as he's asked. And this is leftover from the earlier video when he was asked to imagine his life without her. I think it's a tough one. There's good use of illustrators. We say these illustrators, these punctuations. People don't typically like by going, yes, I was Miss America when they're lying. They typically use larger illustrators and that's Vray. I think Chase or Scott usually mentioned Vray's name. He came up with that. But his eyes are moving around a lot and your people are going to jump to his eyes are going here. It means he's remembering this. The problem is he asked a very complex question when you're trying to find out where a person goes for auditory or visual memory, you have to ask a single sensory question. Not tell me about that morning because then there's a ton of stuff going on and their eyes are darting all over their head. So you can't get a really good baseline out of it. And I'm a big fan of eye movement, but it's tough here. If you'd ask him, for example, what was the last thing she said that single sensory he'd go to auditory memory, you'd pick something up. If you ask what was she wearing, you'd get a single sensory. The other thing that we notice is his hands are open and his fingers are separated. His thumb is up. We usually associate that with confidence, whereas a person closes their hands up, says, you'll talk about digital flection. We don't see that. We see open and that up. Now, here's where being an interrogator is more important than being a body language expert on this thing, because one of the most powerful things that you learn in interrogation is to listen to what people say. There's a powerful, powerful, powerful statement in here and an emotional accessing as he finishes the statement. I'm sure somebody's already digging into it, but he says what was different that day is there was no chaos and a lot of stuff was already done. Hmm. Hmm. That for me would raise a whole lot of questions for me and likely has raised some questions for him. We were saying earlier, if your wife disappeared, you're going to have a ton of stuff going through your head. And I think we might see some of that here. Why was that happening? Because he made a point of saying a lot of stuff was already done. I would dig in. I'd say, what do you mean a lot of stuff was done? Why do you think that happened? What exactly I dig in and get a lot of details. And this is a good opportunity for us to get a good baseline on him because he's talking about routines, about strapping in somebody and everything. So anytime he's giving us facts, we're going to look for that. What I want you to know, though, is just because he may have some emotion around stuff was done that morning doesn't mean it has any significance. If you're one of the Internet folks trying to figure out this case. The other thing is we a lot of times will associate facial touching with stress, but he touches his face when he's talking about the US firm he works for. Not sure that's the case. It may be in his baseline. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so look, unless you are a career criminal, when you commit a crime, patterns change radically. Unless you're a career criminal and then you wake up in the morning and you commit a crime and, you know, that's your that's your general day. You go to prison, you do some time, you come out again, you commit more crime, go to prison. That's a career criminal. OK, so we're on to domestic patterns here, which is a good place to go. And it's a natural lead up to where the event happened. And other than this pattern change of like stuff was ready to which I, you know, I want to know what happened the night before. What happened earlier in that day? How come stuff is ready? You know, or maybe that's part of a larger pattern. Maybe on that particular day, stuff is more ready than other than other days of the week could be, could be a pattern that he hasn't noticed before. I just don't know. But here's what I would. I would expect if a crime has been committed by this person, they're going to hide the pattern changes. So you'll get things like hiding time. You'll get glossing over things. You'll get you'll get these moments of trying to work out how you hide these things and where you hide them. What I'm getting is great illustrators that complete. So so movements that complete and are not jagged in movement. They're fluid. I'm seeing a good tempo and a nice repetitive, constant tempo as he goes along, often what Scott will call kind of loping along. Great tempo on that. I'm seeing this is above and beyond that, but good rapport between him and the interviewer interviewer says, you know, he says, well, you know, it's it's mayhem when this happens. And the interview goes, it's carnage. He goes, yeah, utter carnage. So great kind of builds there. So good seems a good interview so far, building rapport. What you might be hitting on there is this this shaking head that goes on. And many people will go, well, shaking head. Well, that means he's saying no to everything that's going on here. OK, but let me put this, let me put this in your mind, because heads shake for many reasons. OK, and I won't say why I think his head shaking. But one of the reasons a head shakes is disbelief. When you disbelieve how life has gone, your head shakes. What if I'm not saying it is, but what if this is the head shake of utter disbelief at how this day started and then how it ended? What does that do? If you just take on that, I'm not saying you need to keep that idea. But just now take on that idea, go back and watch again and see whether you've got a different idea about who this person is and what they may or may not be part of. Scott, what do you got on this one? All right. If I was going to if I was going to sit you down, the person watching this and say, listen, I'm going to show you how we approach this when or how I personally approach it. When I go in to find out if someone is being honest or not about what they're being questioned about, be it taking money. Be it hurt somebody, maybe somebody's missing, whatever the situation is. Here's the steps I would take you through from step one, the very beginning. If you knew nothing about it, say, come here, this guy's going to teach you some stuff. This is how I'd sit you down and where I would begin. When a situation like this comes up, the first thing you want to do is you're going to look for things that don't be long and you do that. And by the things that don't be long, we're talking about behaviors, cues that you'll see, little movements and things that don't be long in this situation. For example, what you want to do is get a baseline. You hear Greg talk about that all the time here. All of us talk about it all the time because it's so important. And what a baseline is, is where you sit there and you talk to that person for 10, sometimes 15 or 20 minutes. And you just pretend like you're writing something like you're writing something down as they're talking, you ask them some questions. You're doing something else or you act like you're waiting on somebody else to come in and give you something. And that gives you time to sit around, just kind of shoot the shoot with you and and and sort of get to know them. So you see the way they act when they're not under stress. So you're getting that baseline there. Now, right out of the gate, don't be comparing this person to someone you've seen in another video where they've been for sure they're guilty. Like we're seeing that. Who's the Chris Watts? A lot of people are saying that's a lot of Chris Watts going on here. Right. Don't do that. Don't compare these people to each other. You can start comparing the things you see behavior or behavior early with that, but not at the top because you have to get a baseline first as you're going through. If you see things at the beginning that you understand to be cues of deception, don't stop and focus on those. Don't stop. So I see it. I saw one. So I know what that means. No, because those were going to come in groups. So you want to wait, you want to wait. And it may mean nothing. And he may have just actually done that. You know, his shoulder go up or he may do something with his mouth or may show disdain or disgust or whatever. Don't focus on that. Taking all the information you possibly can, wait, be patient, because you're going to have a lot of time to talk to him. You're not going to be able to tell by one answer, by asking him one question. You're not going to be able to tell a squat from that. You're just going to be able to start getting your baseline at that point. For example, we see this hit like Mark was saying, we see this head shake. No, for me, those are confirmation shakes. You'll see a confirmation check. No, I would never do anything like that, or I would never do anything like that. Even though they're saying yes, their head is nodding. Yes, they're confirming what they're saying. It's a conference. I always call it confirmation, not a confirmation shake. Those ways I go, but you make a great point, Mark. It could be an utter disbelief. I can't believe I can't believe that happened. And that's when you see the shrugs come with them. Like I think Chase was saying earlier, we've seen some single shoulder shrugs. And those are lasting as long as they should last. They're not if they pop up real quick and go away. And you might have something to start a question. But if one goes up and stays for about a second, a second and a half, sometimes a little shorter than that, maybe a half second, then take that into consideration. And as you build that baseline, remember that because you may see it later. So that's what I do is as the first few steps, I was first going to start sitting you down and say, OK, we're going to start from nothing and here's how you would do that. It's not in a nutshell, but it's as simple as I can possibly make it. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, you all covered a lot. Let me just walk through a couple of things. The behavioral patterns are continuing from the first video that we took a look at. He's comfortable using her name here. And guilty people are less likely or less comfortable using a victim's name. The blink rate, which is how often we blink, is consistent throughout the video. High blink rate is more consistent with stress. And lower blink rate is kind of a focus could potentially feeling threatened or potentially feeling very relaxed. Those can both indicate a low blink rate. So there's a gestural tendency for his illustrations is to his right side. Everything is off to his right side that may come into play here in a few minutes. But this lets me know to look for deviations to this. Every single thing that he's gesturing off to is to his right side over and over again. Let's see if there's a deviation from that in a minute. There's some facial touching here a couple of times, which if you go read a bad body language article online, you're going to say, oh, this means somebody's lying to you and somebody may be pick up on that. But this facial touching is matched with respiratory inhibition or respiratory markers as well. So there's breathing stopping during this. So maybe like a sneeze coming on or some kind of a sinus issues. There's less likely to be a psychological origin, more likely to be a physiological origin here, because there's a respiratory factor there associated with that. And that comes from about 17 different peer-reviewed research right here in the old handbook of nonverbal communication and the American Psychological Association, not a sponsor of today's video. That's all I got. Good job, because nobody could afford that book. Too expensive, I think it was two seventy five. Tell me, this is the one to get. I know I talked about it earlier. I'm so excited about this because it took me forever to find under a thousand dollars. Well, I bought this as a prop. I have the PDF of it, but I bought this just to do this on videos and stuff. Oh, wow. Very expensive prop. Let me make sure I take all that out. The Ireland's is you. Can I ask you to take us back to two weeks today? That morning of Friday, the 27th of January, was it a normal morning like like any other? It totally normal. So the only difference that morning was, you know, usually, you know, when you've got children getting up on a school day. You know, you probably know yourself as just mayhem, isn't it? Carnage. Yeah, absolute carnage. So the only difference on that one in two weeks ago was that there wasn't a lot of rushing. I came down and a lot of stuff was was already done. It was, you know, the girls were having a breakfast and everything was pretty much ready to go. I came down and Nikki went upstairs to get ready. And then, you know, the routine is basically if Nikki's taking the girls and willow when I hear her come down, I'll get them in the car, get them strapped in, get willow in the boot and all that and Nikki comes out, give her the keys and off they go. It's a well-oiled machine normally. And sometimes you walk the dog and take the kids to school and on that morning it was Nikki's job. Yeah, I don't know if it's my job. Usually the roles are reversed. Yeah. So, yeah, again, it was just nothing out of the ordinary. Everything was normal, you know? Because my working hours, because I work for a US firm, so my hours are like six hours behind. UK time. So, I don't usually start work until a bit later in the morning. So, when Nikki takes the girls to school, I then know that I've got like an hour to myself on that morning when she takes them. So, I always quite look forward to that, you know, because I wave them off and then I go in the house and I put the kettle on, make a cup of tea and I think an hour. A bit of peace. So, at what point are you thinking something's not right here? When did it feel, where's Nikki? At what point did that kick in? So, she's usually back, like, quarter to 10 average, 10 o'clock, you know, at a push. So, I'd gone up into the office at 10, thinking that she'd be back in a minute. So, I logged on, I was just going through some emails and stuff, you know, setting my day up. And it got to, say, quarter past 10. And that's when I thought, you know, she's later than usual, but I still wasn't, like, particularly would, because she has come back at quarter past 20, past 10, sometimes. She might just get back talking to Emma or another mum. Find a friend on a dog walk, yeah. Yeah, yeah, or anybody. So, you know, it's not often, but she has got back at about quarter past 10, 20, past 10. So, again, I wasn't, like, massively concerned or anything. Then it got to half past 10. And that's when I thought, you know, she's, you know, quite, quite late now, more late than usual. So, I tried ringing her phone and there was no answer. I tried ringing her on WhatsApp and, again, there was no answer. I tried the mobile again and no answer. So, I couldn't get it. I started to get a bit panicky, I think. So, that's when I thought, I'm going to have to go down there and see if she's all right, you know, see if I can see the car or, you know, see what's going on. But I still expected that I'd just get there and just, oh, there she is, you know. So, I go to the gym on a Friday, Friday lunchtime. So, I quickly got my gym stuff on, because I just thought, basically, I'm going to go out, find a, come home, do a bit of work. Carry on, yeah. Yeah, lunchtime, go to the gym. All right, Chase, what do you got? There's a respiratory rate increase right at the beginning of this clip, which means he's breathing faster. And this is typically associated with stress. Keep in mind that we're talking about stress and deception are different things. And when we see deception, we'll say there's a likelihood of deception here. But he's comfortable. One thing that I really want to, A, teach you about, and B, comment on on this case here, and I will humbly throw myself into the category of an armchair detective. I have no more education than the police do on this case or the forensics of this case. But one thing that I think is important for you to just take outside of this, outside the case, he's comfortable changing words and editing his language as he speaks. This happens when somebody wants to say something differently mid-sentence. Then they go back to change it mid-sentence. This is something you're not going to see very often in guilty people. And in the thousands of hours that I've spent doing this and analyzing behavior, this is one behavior that you'll hardly ever see in someone that's involved with a crime. They've got a story that's rehearsed. You're not going to see a lot of going back and editing because they're afraid that it appears deceptive. But if someone is not worried about being perceived as deceptive like this, you'll see more editing like this. So the emotional eye accessing, which is down into his right, is continuing here with his eyes. It's normal. And on the precise moments of emotional memory here in this clip, the gestures and behaviors are still on baseline. Scott. Yeah, I agree. Now we've come to a part where he has to get detailed about what happened or what he understands to have happened. And all the things we're seeing here are part of his baseline. So let's talk about some things that are part of his baseline. Some of the things we continue to see. He keeps rubbing his leg. That's fine. He's just getting some of that built up stress and tension. We saw it earlier. That's okay. He's done it the whole time. And he's continually breaking eye contact with this guy. And that's fine too. Because most people are under the impression when you're lying to somebody, you break eye contact. No, that's not true. There are studies that show that prove that's not true. Many studies that show that's not true. And it goes back a couple of 3,000 years to show that most people think that, but it isn't true. Reason being, if I'm going to lie to you, my brain is going to want to keep watching you. So if you start making faces like this or looking like, I don't believe you, then I'm going to want to add something to that. And those things we add or we refer to them as qualifiers. So keep that in mind as we go along. Then again, we see plenty of head shakes and head nods. Again, those are, I refer to them as confirmation nods and confirmation shakes. And those are fine because like Mark said earlier, it could be disbelief. But when you're doing that, yes, I am. And you're almost illustrating with your head on those when they're, they're head shakes. Yes. Those are confirmation nods. If you say a subtle thing like this small as someone's doing it, I would think about that being, you look at that more as a saying yes or an agreement to what's happening where they realize they're doing it or not. If it's very subtle, Paul Eggman goes into a whole thing about that. I know we talked about Paul Eggman and Jonah Barrow and all kinds of people on here. Look these people up and just get one of their books and you'll, you know, change the way you see all of these things. And you'll see them clear like we do as we go through this. All of a sudden we see is illustrators disappeared, which is a little bit odd from that. That just lets us know that there's an issue there because he's focusing even tighter on what he's talking about. In this section, in this part of it, it doesn't mean he's lying. It doesn't mean he's being deceptive, but he's really focused on what he's doing, but not from a deceptive point of view. And we would assume that from what all we've seen so far and from the questions he's asking him. That's why he's zeroing in on what's happening. So you got to think about do all these behaviors we've seen so far, do they all go together? Is there anything that doesn't fit in there so far? Anything goofy or weird out of nowhere that we haven't seen because we've seen three videos up to this point. Is there anything in there we see that's new? That's not, that hasn't happened yet. That seems odd or gives you that odd feel on the inside. Anything that stands out from the other things we've seen, anything that makes you feel odd is something to pay attention to. Going back to the part where if I was sitting you down showing you how we approach this or the beginner's approach to start learning about this. That's how you do it. Feeling is very important. So is there anything that makes you feel odd about that? Not the odd, not, I won't get it. I'm getting ready to go off of my brain tangent. So I'll do that too often. So I won't do that. So Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So to kind of move further into what you're saying that Chase, also he's able to describe the emotional journey that he's on. And what we'll see later on is that he is perfectly happy to correct somebody on that emotional journey as well. Now, to be able to map out emotional journey and say, look, here's how I felt at this point. And then things change. And then I felt this and then things move forward. And I felt this. You really have to have lived through the situation or you've got to be like a really good writer and be able to have worked out, oh, you know, I'd be feeling this at this and I'd be feeling this. And here's the name of the feeling as well. Okay. And here's the rhythm of it as well. So I'm going to reproduce the rhythm and name the feeling. Well, he's doing this in a very fluid manner, which means he's most likely not making it up. He's most likely lived through this. And to your point, Chase, he's going to correct you on it. If you get it in the wrong order, somebody's had to make this up. If you start to create a narrative that's okay, you'll just, you'll just join in on that. It's like, yeah, whatever you say, I'll go with whatever emotion you have, because you're doing the work for me. He's already had these feelings. He's very happy about not hiding time, giving you very good quality of, of in a linear fashion, how these times play out the emotional journey. We see he moves from not concerned to concerned and uses the word a bit panicky. Okay. So again, we'll see where this, where this comes in our next video, but this is not the behavior I would expect to see from anybody who's being deceptive or trying to hide something in there. I mean, he's even open about the idea of, hey, I stopped to put my gym kit on because I thought it's going to be okay. And I'll just, you know, I'll just move on. To that extent, there is a little bit of, of positivity there that things are genuinely going to be okay. It's an anomaly. It's going to be all right. Greg, what do you got on this one? Yeah. So I really like this one because you're right. He edits as he speaks. I have a dear friend named John who has never finished a story in the entire 40 years I've known him and he'll say, let me finish my story. I'd say I've been waiting for 20 years. He will edit as he speaks and only when he is speaking that way, if you don't know him, you may think, okay, he's making this up. But when a person is making something up, there's a very different body language is they're trying to figure out what to say next. This is another one of those things that we look for is that down left eye accessing. If you sit for a few minutes and start to think about how would you describe this situation? You'll find your eyes drifting kind of down into your left. And so when we expect this, we expect when a person is halting to go into some kind of internal dialogue, we don't see it. What we see with this guy is as long as he is regurgitating facts and precise things about timelines and that, it's smooth and it's easy. When you start to get into something more complex like feelings and that, then he does edit as he speaks and he talks about those things. People who work in precise ways often are that way. My buddy John is an IT guy, a coder for main frames or that kind of stuff. And so I looked him up. This guy's an engineer, not surprised that he would be more comfortable in one thing than the other. The other thing that I like about this video is you could not ask for better illustration. We said illustrations when I'm using my body to punctuate my thoughts, then he does in this entire story. In the beginning, he's making that point and asking for approval as he's talking about her. His face kind of scrunches up. He uses his face. My dad would do something similar when he would ask you a question. Do you understand what I'm saying? He shows negative emotion and he is then showing a different expression when he scrunches his face in this way. Everything down and that brow down as he's showing that there's concern and negative emotion. And when he says if she is all right, you see his brow knit followed by confusion where there's narrowing of the eyes, furrowed brow down and furrowed, which is difficult to do and he's blinking and his lips are pushed up. All of that stuff showing confusion, showing concern, showing negative emotion. All that fits the story to a T. So it's concern, followed by hope, followed by confusion, followed by emotional accessing at the end. Really good. If this guy is hiding something, that's powerful, really good body language and one of us would have a hard time doing it, my opinion. The island is huge. A bit of peace. So at what point are you thinking something's not right here? When did it feel where's Nicky? At what point did that kick in? So she's usually back like quarter to ten average, ten o'clock, you know, at a push. So I'd gone up into the office at ten thinking it should be back in a minute. So I logged on, I was just going through some emails and stuff, you know, setting my day up and it got to say quarter past ten. And that's when I thought, you know, she's later than usual but I still wasn't like particularly would because she has come back at quarter past twenty past ten sometimes. She might just get talking to Emma or another mum. Find a friend on a dog walk. Yeah, yeah, or anybody. So, you know, it's not often but she has got back at about quarter past ten, twenty past ten. So again, I wasn't like massively concerned or anything. Then he got to half past ten and that's when I thought, you know, she's quite late now, more late than usual. So I tried ringing her phone and there was no answer. I tried ringing her on WhatsApp and again there was no answer. I tried the mobile again and no answer so I couldn't get it. I started to get a bit panicky I think. So that's when I thought I'm going to have to go down there and see if she's all right, you know, see if I can see the car or see what's going on but I still expected that I just get there and just, oh, there she is, you know. So I go to the gym on a Friday, Friday lunchtime. So I quickly got my gym stuff on because I just thought basically I'm going to go out, find a come home, do a bit of work. Carry on. Yeah, lunchtime, go to the gym. We're going to leave and then the phone rang and it was the school and it was the receptionist at school and she said, Mr. Ansel, it's a bit of a weird one. So it's a bit of a weird one but we've found Willow and Nicola's phone on the bench and the harness halfway down the embankment on the floor. So... You're already worried at this point. Yeah, I'm just about to leave so I've got my gym stuff on. I'm about to leave thinking I'm going to see her, you know, pass her, get there and find her. Then I get that call and in an instant it's like your whole... Of course. Because you... I knew straight away that it wasn't normal. You know what I mean? Like I said, where is she? They can't find her. So I also know that she would never in a million years leave Willow. Like Willow would like our third child. So I know that she'd never... Like the fact that Willow is just in the field on her own, off the lead. Obviously extremely concerning. So obviously I'll... You know, I'm just in a mad panic then, you know, because it's... I got hit by that weird... It's like your will just drops out because you know something's weird has happened. So I got in the car, drove down there, ran down the river to where the bench is. Somebody had Willow and obviously there was a few other dog walkers there and stuff like that. Handed me Willow, handed me Nicky's phone. I still expected obviously to just have a look around there she is or there she is. So, you know, we're all looking. I'm like walking off into the field that way, like looking around the corners, looking over the hedge, looking over the style and you know, nothing, nothing. But I'd run 999 on the way because I obviously knew something was wrong. So the police rang me then while I was at the bench and said, look, you've got to get home because the police are going to come to your house. We need somebody at your house. You get home, the police are on the way there. All right. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, this is a really good one too. Let me give you two lines to go back and listen to and pay close attention and listen to the stress in this guy's voice that doesn't show up easily. This is because it's out of character. The dog was on her own and off the leash. There's a lot of emphasis in those two sentences. And I think what we're seeing is now it's real because this is a big deal. This is out of character for her. Something has happened. And watch his body language as he's doing it again, punctuating as he goes. Eyes down right at the beginning with emotion. When he said she said, he's talking about the person in the school, his head drives down to your point, Scott, that confirming driving. And then he turns his head and somebody's going to say, oh, he's avoiding the question. No, he's looking at the dog to get the dog to come over to him. Then he restates his story in the middle of that interruption. He backs up and comes back with the same story. It was a bit of a weird one, he says. He adapts to his face again. And look, there's a million reasons we adapt. We touch, we do whatever. And that can be retelling a stressful story. Lying can be stressful. Defending our position can be stressful. If we're being attacked by someone at work, I often say we are primitive creatures in our limbic brains. They don't know the difference between being attacked by our spouse and attacked by a tiger. They respond the same way, and they can be very aggressive at times. If you want to know now whether that leg thing is an adapter from lying or whether it is something that he does all the time, really easy to tell. Because if he were lying and that was his stress relief, he would be rubbing the hell out of this dog because he has his hand on the dog now and not his leg. But he doesn't. He pets the dog and contains the dog. And then when he starts to feel that need to do what he always does, he reaches back across and pets the dog on the neck once. He's not just petting this dog to death and going crazy. There's lots of studies that show that petting those dogs or stroking dogs will relieve stress and he isn't doing it. So it's not a stress adapter for him. It's just a habit, I think, at this point. He's back to editing when he speaks. And I love these two pieces. He's wide-eyed at weird and short nods to illustrate his point. And then he's wide-eyed from residual shock clearly once you live something, it stays with you at she handed me Nicky's phone. Then he goes back to normal for the dog. Scott, what do you got? All right, things are beginning to change just a little bit here from what we've been seeing so far. Greg's gone over some of them. The number of illustrators we're seeing, that number has gone up. So they're being a little more dramatic and in fact, so why would that be? Because his stress level is going up a little bit because he's reliving this experience. He's talking you through what happened. So his stress level starts to go up and his behaviors become amplified. The normal baseline behaviors we're still seeing those. They're just amplifiers getting a little bit more intense. His cadence speeds up. He gets a little bit louder when he talks. His tones get a little stronger. His head movements increase. He scratches his beard to get rid of some of that built up stress and tension. And that's normal. This is all normal for a situation like this. So it's okay. A lot of people are going to see all this and go, ah, so much is going on. There is a lot going on. But remember what we talked about at the beginning as we walk through this. I'm trying to show you how to approach this from the beginning, from step one. And so don't look at these things. Remember I said earlier when they pop out like that, don't just focus on them, something like that. Because we're seeing everything happen at once. It's almost blooming or blossoming into something as he tells the story. So you've got to pay attention to what he's seeing or what he's saying and compare that to what you're seeing. Are these things happening because of something he's saying? Yes. What is he talking about? He's talking about what happened. He's getting specific about what he did and the situation. Then as it goes along, his volume gets a little bit lower. He's not subconsciously trying to make this interviewer believe him. He's not like calming down to go, you know, so he's not doing that. He's not trying to get him to believe him. We don't see that in here at all. Not even a little bit. He's just telling them what happened. So some are going to see this. Some of these are signs of deceptive behavior, but that's not what it is. Just an increase in non-deceptive behaviors. Just an amplification of what we've seen so far due to the stress he's starting to feel while explaining what's happened. Mark, what do you got? Yeah. And I think the rhythm is changing now and his volume is changing now. Not only because of the stress you're talking about there, Scott, but the extra stress of having to name the emotion that he's going through and he hasn't got a decent name for it. This is the moment where he corrects and says, look, here's the transition of emotions and here's at which point I felt, you know, a little bit concerned here. And then more news comes and then he says and the world drops away or some metaphor a little bit like that. And it's very hard for him to find decent words for that. He grasps that metaphor, which is, you know, very un-literal. I mean, it's a metaphor. Of course, the world didn't literally drop away, but what else, what other words have you got for that? Think about it for yourself. If somebody that you love goes missing, what are you feeling right now? What are you feeling? Well, you know, there's a hole there and you don't have a feeling for it because hopefully the people you love most don't go missing every day. So you don't have the vocabulary. You don't have the emotional vocabulary and when you do have those emotions, you don't have the words to fit them. That's another thing that he's grappling with right now is exactly what is this feeling called. And I want you to watch that again and see him, his rhythm change, his tone change because he hasn't got the exact words for that. Yeah, the world drops out. Greg, what do you got on this one? Oh, Chase, what do you got on this one? So I think the behavior here is all still within baseline. His speech is unhurried. And just as a point to notice when somebody's fabricating parts of the story and not the whole story, so they're fabricating pieces of the story, you'll hear the fabricated parts of the story speed up a little bit faster than the other parts. And this happens, I think, because of an unconscious desire to minimize the time it takes for the stressful part and to return to the known and the comfortable part of the story as soon as possible. We're not seeing that here at all. So when somebody is mixing or braiding together truth and fiction, you'll see the fiction be just slightly faster. So his gestures, his cadence, his tone, his pitch, his eye contact all within his baseline with a normal behavior we'd expect to see because the genuine expressions appear on his face the moment he's feeling the emotion that he's speaking about, not the moment that he wants you to realize how he was feeling. This is a very common mistake people who are guilty make all the time. They show the facial expressions at the moment they think you realize something that they're feeling instead of when they felt it during the story that they're telling. This is totally honest behavior here. One thing we talk about every once in a while, Mark, you've spoken about this as well before, is this I, you shift of pronouns. And one of them is I'm switching to the word you to describe certain things. In guilty people, we hear the word you being shifted to thought processes, reasons, motives, and behaviors. Why I did certain things. You hear it in Prince Harry. You're going to hear it in a lot of the videos that we do, especially when those people were found to be guilty. Here, the I, you shift is about emotion. That's the only time you hear him shift into you, saying you is conveying that emotion and helping you to understand how that feels. Big difference. We're going to leave and then the phone rang and it was the school and it was the receptionist of school and she said, Mr. Ansel, it's a bit of a weird one. It's a bit of a weird one, but we found Willow and Nicola's phone on the bench and the harness halfway down the embankment on the floor. So... You're already worried at this point. Yeah, I'm just about to leave. So I've got my gym stuff on. I'm about to leave thinking I'm going to see her, you know, pass her, get there and find her. Then I get that call. And in an instant, it's like your whole... Of course. I knew straight away that it wasn't normal. You know what I mean? Like I said, where is she? They can't find her. So I also know that she would never in a million years leave Willow. Like Willow would like our third child. So I know that she'd never... Like the fact that Willow's just in the field on her own off the lead. Obviously extremely concerning. So obviously I'm just in a mad panic then, you know, because it's... I got hit by that weird... It's like your will just drops out because you know something weird has happened. So I got in the car, drove down there, ran down the river to where the bench is. Somebody had Willow, and obviously there was a few other dog walkers there and stuff like that. Handed me Willow, handed me Nic his phone. I still expected obviously to just have a look around and there she is or there she is. So, you know, we're all looking. I'm like walking off into the field that way like looking around the corners, looking over the hedge, looking over the style. And you know, nothing, nothing. But I'd run 999 on the way because I obviously knew something was wrong. So the police rang me then while I was at the bench and said, I'm going to come because the police are going to come to your house. We need somebody at your house. You get home and the police are on the way there. What do you think might have happened? We've always tried to keep all options open because we don't want to shut down any avenue. We've always been very careful that we don't want to say, oh, we think it's that and then push that when it might not be. The most obvious thing, of course, has always been the river. It's always been my gut instinct and my sisters and family that that isn't the case. The extensive searching, you know, is probably well aware of what has gone on in that river. I mean, they were in there, you know, I mean, I have to categorically say I cannot fault the police in any of this. They have been incredible and the relationship that we have working on this is still very, very strong. It's very good. So this isn't any criticism of them at all. I just want to make that clear. But the fact that they were in the divers and underwater rescue team and all that were in that river on the day and thankfully found absolutely nothing in the part where you would, I guess, have to presume is her last known location. If you take all those things into account of the unlikeliness of it, you know, you would have to sort of say really the river isn't what happened. And so we always felt that the mobile phone and the harness and everything, it could possibly be a decoy. Again, we don't have evidence. These are things that you naturally would think about because, you know, the team's call was still active at the time, wasn't it? And Willow's harness is on the floor and I'm sure these are things that constantly you're thinking about. Yeah, of course it is. The only thing we're bothered about is finding her. Nothing else matters. That's the only thing that we're bothered about is just finding her. Of course you're going to be thinking this, these things. And so the more searching of the river that went on, the more confident we were that it wasn't the river. You know, especially things like, again, it's not nice talking about it, but at the same time we've taken hope from it, the fact that no item of clothing or anything has been found anywhere where you would have thought something, you know, would have, something might have been found, yeah. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, this is an interesting one because he starts off with a mouth chew. He's looking down to his right and he does a little mouth chew, which we associate with relieving stress. Now let's talk about for just a minute what is the fundamental difference between what the four of us do and the armchair person who's just starting in body language and who's an absolutist. There's really no meaning. If I touch my face, it means nothing. If I bite my lip, it means nothing. If I always do it, if I always do it, if suddenly I do it, it means something. So absolutist assign meanings to every one of these little things rather than looking at holistic message that strings all this stuff together. So there's only so many movements a human can make and how they go together is part of that messaging. Just like a language, when you speak words, there's only so many ways you can put them together. But body language is words. When we're looking at behaviors in body language, we're looking at what you're saying, plus we're looking at pitch, tone and cadence in the way you speak, plus we're looking at all these pieces of body language you're talking about. And what we're trying to find every one of us is a congruent message between that spoken word, that diction, pitch, tone and cadence, body language movement, everything that you're doing, everything about you. Chase just brought up one just a minute ago where a person may rush to get through the information and in some cases may slow as they work through the information. So we're looking for the mechanics of how a person speaks. There are a couple of really interesting pieces of body language here. One that's helplessness, that straight-up eye roll and intake breath. If I do that, I'm preparing to go after somebody I think is an idiot. I just am like, okay, that's a dumb answer and I raise my brows and do that. And a lot of people will do that before they lay into something. Then he goes over here in a move we haven't seen a whole lot, is he's asked what do you think happened and he goes over to a creative kind of a posture and then turns back and looks. Again, there are no absolutes. This for us is looking for where do we get information from. Then there's a request for approval, raises his brow just a bit, doesn't wrinkle up at the top, just his brow. And then that's when he's trying to see if you get what he's talking about. He shows him this taste, closes his mouth as he talks about the sister and the family don't believe she's in the river. And when he does this disclaimer about the police, a lot of people are going to jump to him. He's being overly polite to the police. It must be an issue because we just had Alex Murdoch last week who said, well, the 911 was a great operator. Well, that's a different thing. He's saying thank you is what he's saying. And then when he gets to the river isn't what happened. His forehead goes relaxed. And everything he has said in this entire thing, I think has been powerful to show that he is going to have a body language that's associated with the words he's using and all those pieces are tied together. Then he touches his nose with the back of his hand. And I don't think that that is an indicator of deception like people will tell you. It is just he's thinking about negative thoughts. Maybe that's what he's doing. Maybe he's got something wrong. But what we don't see is a lot of clusters of behavior that indicate that he is being deceptive. His messaging, verbal, nonverbal, physical, cadence, pitch, tone all appear to support each other. Chase, what do you got? So I've only got one thing here only. When he gets to this point of illustrating how they've exhausted the river as being a possibility. His level of comfort, actual comfort with saying the word decoy. This gives me tremendous relief that two things are very likely. Number one, there might be a chance that these babies are going to have their mom back. Most importantly. And number two, there's almost no chance that he was involved in any way. Just based off of all the stuff that we've seen and his comfort level here with saying decoy is really important to me based on the tens of thousands of hours that I've been doing this and analyzing stuff like this. That's a big one for this video, Mark. Yeah. If I was wanting to see somebody lying, being deceptive or trying to cover stuff over, I would want to see him giving reasons for his innocence and weaving that into the story and setting things up as to why it can't be him. I would want to see him de-risking in the story to deflect away from it. I want to see him de-conflicting elements and trying to sort out the one thing that he said and how it doesn't conflict with the next thing. I want to see what Greg calls chaff and redirect, which is him taking us off into areas that maybe don't really matter but are kind of shiny and interesting and we might get a little bit more obsessed with. I would have liked to have seen that early on in this domestic stuff. I would have liked to see lots of chaff and redirect around there because the story of the crime would have started way, way earlier on and it would be showing up in there and he'd need to be de-risking that and redirecting us. I'd want to see from him some good resume statements, like, well, in the Royal Navy, I'd like to see him going, well, because as an engineer and giving us reason to go, oh, this guy's an engineer, so don't look in that direction. He's got this all sorted out. None of that, none of that at all. What I am seeing is still a good baseline of these good illustrators going on, still going pretty well. As he's getting into some trickier territory, his illustrators are still good for me. His self-soothing baseline is still there as well at a good level. Even as he's getting into this trickier stuff, it looks very, very good. I wish I could help people out there so far with something to, if you're always looking for perpetrators, I wish I could give you something, but I've got nothing for you today. Scott, what have you got on this one? All right. This is interesting because he's asked what he thinks happened, and we don't see him rushed to any... This is exactly what happened. It was this person, I think, because of this, that. He doesn't get right into that. Quite often we'll see that with other cases we've covered when they'll just get right into it. They'll go say, this is what happened. He doesn't do that. He thinks happened, but he doesn't jump right into it and with this hurried fervor to say what he thinks happened. He's thinking about his answer because he doesn't have a loaded one. So he's thinking about what he's saying and by loaded, I don't mean... I mean, he's had one that he's rehearsed and gotten ready and prepared like we've seen quite often when someone has an answer ready. They just start spewing that thing out, but he'll stop and he'll think, and like Greg always talks about, he'll edit what he's getting ready to say. That so far, everything is okay. Everything is as it should be. So what we want to see is a non-aggressive, organic, calm answer or reply or statement. And that's what we're seeing here. But what we're seeing here is an organic, non-aggressive, calm answer because he's just flowing, he's loping. He's loping right along and everything's going smooth. This isn't completely thought out as far as... I think he's thought about it before, but he hasn't sat there and told exactly what he's thought about what happened before. And if he has, he's sort of watching his mouth because I think that maybe they've said, like he mentioned earlier, I've got to watch what I say because we don't want to turn people off from looking over here or looking over there because of what I think or what I think the problem may be or the situation may really be. His head remains straight up. We never see him cover his neck. He never brings his head down for very long at all. And we associate that with someone feeling threatened or maybe feeling a little guilty about something. They guard their neck. Sometimes it's with their hands. Sometimes they'll bring their chin down. We don't see that. His head stays pretty much straight up and we're not seeing all these quick little jerky movements and things. We're seeing everything is fairly smooth as it goes along. At some parts we see some jerky movement and things start getting ramped up, that's another video. But in this situation everything seems to be as it should be. His head is still tilted toward that interviewer which lets us know he's not trying to distance himself from it. Sometimes they'll be tilted and they'll be leaned back but he's tilted and sort of leaned toward him. So he doesn't have a problem with the guy. There's still no barriers being thrown up and of course we talk about barriers being anything from a pen to an arm to a cup. Trying to get distance from him. Trying to put anything between he and himself in the interviewer. So everything's looking okay so far. Everything is as it should be as far as I'm concerned, as far as so far as it looks to me. So if you're looking at something like in this video and again if you were just the beginning I was sitting down and going here's how you do this. Nothing sticks out, nothing looks weird, nothing looks out of place, nothing looks or sounds like it shouldn't look or sound. Everything is going really well at this point. What do you think might have happened? We've always tried to keep all options open because we don't want to shut down any avenue. We've always been very careful that we don't want to say oh we think it's that and then push that when it might not be. The most obvious thing of course has always been the river. It's always been my gut instinct and a sister's and family that that isn't the case. Extensive searching is probably well aware of what has gone on in that river. They were in there, I have to categorically say I cannot fault the police in any of this. They have been incredible and the relationship that we have working on this is still very very strong, it's very good. So this isn't any criticism of them at all. I just want to make that clear. But the fact that they were in the divers and underwater rescue team and all that we're in that river on the day and thankfully found absolutely nothing in the part where you would I guess have to presume is her last known location if you take all those things into account of the unlikeliness of it, you know you would have to sort of say that really the river isn't what happened and so we always felt that the mobile phone and the harness and everything, it could possibly be a decoy. Again, we don't have evidence. These are things that you naturally would think about because the team's call was still active at the time, wasn't it? Willow's harness is on the floor and I'm sure these are things that constantly you're thinking about. Yeah, of course it is. The only thing we're bothered about is finding her. Nothing else matters. That's the only thing that we're bothered about is just finding her. So, you know, it's of course you're going to be thinking this these things and so the more searching of the river that went on the more confident we were that it wasn't the river. You know, especially things like again, it's not nice talking about it but at the same time we've taken hope from it, the fact that no item of clothing or anything has been found anywhere where you would have thought something, you know, would have something might have been found. I suppose the question after that is what then? And the difficulty is you allowing your mind to think where she might be and what's happened to her which is horrible as well I imagine. Yeah, it's horrendous because people don't just vanish into thin air. It's absolutely impossible. So something has happened. Something has happened. Find out what it is. Find out what it is. There has to be a way to find out what happened. There has to be. You cannot walk your dog down a river and just vanish into thin air. Something has, something happened that day. Something. Find out, find out what it is. And my plea now is personally I want every house, every garage, every outbuilding the land scrutinized. I want it all searched. I want it all scrutinized. Every piece of it. And I'm not going to, you're not going to appease me with anything else. That is what I want to happen. Because for something to have happened there it's not you would only know that area by local, it's a local area. We bought down there for years and I mean years you see the same faces every single day and on a very odd occasion when you see somebody that you know, you don't know they stand out like a sore thumb. Okay, Mark what do you got? Yeah, so this is a change for me. This is the first kind of big and more radical change that we've seen and I think it's important his gestures are now emphatic and repetitious. It's aggressive and suppressive in the gestures that he's using. There's a lot of repetition in the words here. Something has to happen. The word something is repeated again and again with these suppressive, more aggressive gestures. Find out find out is repeated again and again. There has to be a way and on that word way I believe we get anger in the lower teeth there. All, every searched and scrutinized so he's once the ground blitzed completely. All and every. So I mean a massive change here, way more aggression. I think this is he's now being demanding. I think demanding is because he is making he's trying to push forward his demand for where this investigation goes and where his mind is at the moment where is where something has happened again. It's an interesting idea because there is there's no definition on what that something must be but something has to have happened. And that idea of finding out finding out and some real anger in that. Now remember what anger is about as an emotion. If you want to learn about emotions, Paul Ekman has a brilliant book for me the best book that he ever wrote or was transcribed really is his conversations with the Dalai Lama where it's Ekman and the Dalai Lama talking about why would emotions exist in the first place. Why in the evolution because Dalai Lama is not so much an evolutionist and Ekman is way more an evolutionist and it's a conversation about why would we have emotions the emotion of anger is to get stuff done fast get stuff done fast when you get angry your heart rate goes up your breathing rate goes up you get more energized you get an adrenaline and if you want something or you want to defend against something anger is a great emotion to have. Put it in the wrong place at the wrong time it can get you into a lot of trouble but in the right place at the right time it can get you and your body and your family and your mind exactly what you need at that point and I think that's why we're seeing anger right now he knows what he wants and he wants to get that right now. Chase what do you got on this one? anger is always every ounce of anger is a secret desire that something was different and a desire to change it which goes along with that getting stuff done and here I think there's more honest behavior keep in mind we're not experts on the case we're not forensics experts and we're not privy to any more information than the next person but we are experts in humans and this is a human but one thing that really stands out to me in this clip is that he just vehemently wants the search to happen and I think this is spot on honest behavior but I keep wondering where the request is to have her back and when is he going to want her to come home I'm not insinuating this implies any guilt whatsoever it's just an unusual thing to notice about the clip and all of us make youtube videos for a living if you haven't noticed we're all we've all been victim to saying something and like leaving something out wishing we could go back and throw it in there I just think nobody's perfect this is just an unusual thing to notice in this clip here Greg yeah I'm going to cover a couple of places here so hang in for the messages but this is Mark I'm on the same page you are emphatic message number one and I summed it up by saying someone knows something and I want the whole damn place searched usually people who have done something are not going to ask for a whole lot of searches number one but he's angry and look this guy's so contained it's hard to see anger but those bearing those lower teeth at that declaration he's pretty not going to do that either he's going to say hey something happened and his chin is up in defiance or indignation and find out what it is that's powerful that's powerful that's throwing your throat open and people don't typically do that you're heard Scott say we often will protect our throat and we're doing something pre-confession body language is our chin drops to cover our throat so we see a lot of anger here chin up tone and cadence and pitch are all different before his tone is telling in the last element of every single piece it is telling until that last place where he's asking for something he lilts up that's the only thing and we see a narrowing of his mouth and chase I paid attention to that same thing you're talking about one last thing body language wise before I move to what you're talking about chase his fingers and thumbs are together now as he's doing this he's demanding something he's less confident he's going to get it you can see that chase I'm with you he's not saying I want her back he's not doing that but there's whole a whole roll of stuff running back in his head look none of us are in this situation if you ever lost anybody you know the flood of stuff that's going on in your head the flood of stuff that's going on emotionally if we were machines we could turn all that off but you can't so self doubt did I do something all that could be playing and as we walk through this I'm going to show you a couple of points why I think that we're seeing some of that playing deep in the person there's a lot more going on in a person than is showing at the top and it's really easy to find a reason why that person didn't do something Scott what do you got alright he's he's getting right to the point here is everybody said so far and he's really logical level level headed about this now again going back to the person who's just beginning and just getting into this everything things are getting different again these these behaviors we're seeing are amplified even more his cadence and his voice we cadence is how fast you speak how many words you speak let's say per minute you know maybe 50 it may be a hundred and he's right along here at pretty good rate his blink rates gone up so that tells us something's going on in here he's he's thinking about something his voice and volume have changed at the tone wise his voice voice volume and tone have changed and this is like I think it was Mark was saying this is frustration and anger at the same time we're seeing this this combination combination of things a blend of those as Ekman puts it his nostrils flare here's the interesting part his eyelids widen his eyes get a little bit wide but we see a bit of his bottom teeth that's how we know or give us gives us the impression that we're seeing two things at once because mostly when someone gets mad you'll see their eyes kind of squint some most people are in the impression if you're angry your eyes squint like this nope because that's fake anger what you what you want to see is you want to see the eyes squint but you want to see them open up a little bit so they look like they're crazy that's anger because they're trying to see what's going on but the but the emotion is making their their other eyelids squished down as they're trying to push them up trying to get an eye on everything make sure everything is going the way it should be or as they make their plan to do whatever it's going to happen nothing is stories changed nothing is confusing he's not add anything new substantially new to anything and by that I mean there's nothing weird he's added you know out of nowhere sometimes they'll throw in the whole thing you've never heard before you go oh wow this is getting good but we're just starting to beginning like I was saying earlier these are the things we look for this is where all those a lot of those things start happening sometimes will happen when they're calm and you can see things happen but right here usually you'll get big clusters of things going on especially when they get ramped up and they're emotional if that emotion is real if it's true emotion his story hasn't changed at all his arms and legs are still wide and he's laid back looks relaxed everything looks as it should everything sounds the way it should sound for someone in this situation there's nothing really odd happening except we're seeing some new things to add to his baseline we know what is what anger looks like it's subtle anger he's not getting ready to haul off and punch somebody which is a different kind of that's more advanced into that expression we're seeing the subtleties of anger here not full blown expressions not micro expressions but not full blown expressions here so that's all saying on that stuff I suppose the question after that is what then and and the difficulty is you allowing your mind to think where she might be what's happened to her which is horrible as well I imagine it's horrendous because people don't just vanish into thin air it's absolutely impossible so something has happened something has happened find out what it is find out what it is there has to be a way to find out what happened there has to be you cannot walk your dog down a river and just vanish into thin air something has happened that day something find out find out what it is and my my plea now is personally I want every house every garage every outbuilding the land scrutinized I want it all searched I want it all scrutinized every piece of it you're not going to appease me with anything else that is what I want to happen because for something to have happened there you would only know that area by local it's a local area we bought down there for years and I mean years you see the same faces every single day and on the very odd occasion when you see somebody that you don't know they stand out like a sore thumb and I think that's an important point to make because there might be some people watching this thinking why are you doing this why are you talking to us and the reason you're doing that I don't want to put words in your mouth is because you feel that somebody out there knows something and that's the appeal that you're trying to make definitely and I'm just pleading with them just please anything no matter how tiny just please just come forward with it please because that could be the key to finding her and as a family we're not bothered about anything else there's nothing else the only thing is we just have to find her the decision around this when I think strength we get an eyebrow raise on that could be a look for approval is that what you the audience or the interviewer think I should have right now strength hope no eyebrow raise on that is that because he doesn't have hope or he doesn't need to signal is that what you think I should have on a previous interview he was kind of picked up I assume that he's um he now knows that people expect him to have hope whether he has it or not there's a public expectation a social expectation to have have hope and yet no eyebrow raise on that we're going to find her eyebrow raise and a bitter taste in the mouth so a look for approval potentially and negativity around this and all of this within what I would call a vehement play he's asking for help and he's asking it with great passion and aggressive passion a vehement play so I don't have any answers I think about what this means but I find it interesting that we have we're going to find her and a look for approval but bitterness in the mouth if I thought about this in the most negative way I would wonder if at an unconscious level he truly feels that that will happen what an awful situation to be in and I can only imagine how awful that is and the internal fight that goes on as you are potentially going through grief as to what people expect of you and how you're feeling and being able to carry those two things at the same time and maybe have never gone through grief at that level and so your body your whole body and mind are totally out of whack because you haven't experienced anything like this before extraordinary I can't imagine Greg what have you got on this one I'm going to be really short what I see is a mixed message and I'm not sure where it's coming from I think it's helplessness or hopelessness whichever it is but he's doing what he needs to do to get the message out and you can see it I'll just leave it at that and Scott what do you got I had helplessness and hopelessness as well one right after the other one slashing the other so once again we're seeing these head shakes no some people can see think those are deception cues those are just confirmation shakes as he's saying as he's talking he zeroes in on one single thing we just have to find her that's it at this point that's all he's interested in doing is finding her that's all he talks about that's where his focus is he hasn't talked about himself about how he hadn't been sleeping he's not talking about how what a wreck he's been he's not talking about how horrible it is he's not talking about how their love for each other was this or that and we've seen that quite often in other videos where the person was guilty of that person missing and we're not seeing that here at all he caught off and the guilty person would want you to feel sorry for him oh that's horrible he feels that way not this guy because I'm under the impression so far that everything is the way it should be everything looks as it should because he's not giving us any of that he's not oh poor pitiful me not giving us a bunch of pitiful mouth he's just saying this is what we need to do is we need to find her so that's where I'm sitting on that everything looks as it should everything is as it should be Chase what do you got yeah so the request to get her back finally the reporter is kind of helping out here essentially telling just about to say this verbatim like here's how to say this at the beginning of the clip I think the request is genuine here but the lack of emotion is unlike the stuff that we've seen before this is potentially I'll just give the possibility this is maybe adrenal fatigue but I also think there's a chance that like Mark said in video one that we're seeing a lot of pessimism and a potential for maybe giving up on the idea of her coming back and this isn't in any way an insinuation of guilt or character flaw I think we all process things different ways and at different speeds based on our outlook on the world and how we view ourselves in the world around us and I think that's an important point to make because there might be some people watching this thinking why are you doing this why are you talking to us and the reason you're doing that I don't want to put words in your mouth is because you feel that somebody out there knows something and that's the appeal that you're trying to make definitely definitely and I'm just pleading with them just please anything anything no matter how tiny just please just come forward with it please because that is that that could be the key to finding her and as a family we're not bothered about anything else like there's nothing else the only thing is we just have to find her you've told us a bit about who Nicky is was she ever the sort of person who might go away for a night or leave for a few days you know what I mean that was far out of character as you could get you know I truly mean that like even as a couple on the odd occasion if we ever do have a night away from the girls because the girls of our world like regardless of meals the girls come with us yeah everything that we do is the girls are in it they're involved in it and that feels right you know that's how we love it we love our little family we love our world and your gorgeous dog Willow's been spending a bit of time with us as well and it's also that thing that Willow may well have seen I know I know to Nicky I know and that's another layer of of frustration and and hell to it you know hellish situation with the layer of hell that no not knowing what's happened yet and then also having Willow who probably does know what happened but she can't she can't tell us can she and she's a very sensitive dog I did take about their first thing on the Saturday the next day the next day I took about their first thing how did she react to that then I was praying and hoping that once we got to the gate that she would do something different take you somewhere just give some sign of some kind bless her she just went through the gate like any other normal day and ran into the field to be excited that she was there for a walk I was saying to her where's mommy where's mommy you know and she was just looking at me like you know let's go for a walk Chase what do you got I can't imagine the just emotional hell of knowing that Willow the dog is also a family member probably saw the whole thing and going to bed with her looking into her eyes every night knowing that she witnessed this thing and Willow is a Springer Spaniel they're incredibly intelligent and if you'll forgive me I'm gonna stray out of the behavioral path for a moment for the first time maybe ever I don't know if the dog happened to see something happening to Nicola Willow if it was violent or being abducted or something happening there to Nicola Willow would have gone into full fight or flight mode so if there was an attacker or something this might explain the harness being disconnected from the dog or the harness coming off of the dog which apparently from what I briefly read today didn't happen I just thought that was an interesting point that Nicola got here Scott what do you got? I see what you're saying with that and I actually saw as I was scrolling through looking for pictures to make the graphic for the video I saw a couple pictures of her by the lake or by that river and the dog didn't have the thing on it so maybe she lets her go lets her run around and stuff while she's on the phone and I'm just throwing that out there maybe there's that but this is his chance to create doubt about why she's missing or why she may have left he could say well you know what she's always talked about leaving me or she's always done this so there's this one guy I think she was hanging out with we don't see any of that this is his shot man this got that open window to go here's what I think she might have done this or that he doesn't say that at all the retelling of the taking of the dog like you were saying Chase to the last place that she was seen is what most of us would do and that's a great idea and it's normal but that's what I think as he's reliving that we're seeing stress build up from that and I think you're right when he's hanging out with that dog he knows that dog saw what happened if it was paying attention to what was going on around him I think the mouth grooming we're seeing is just that it's just some mouth grooming stuff no bitter taste he's just licking his lips because he's been talking a lot he's really focused on what's happening do what? she I think Willow's a girl he's talking about the man licking his lips I'm talking about the man now from dog to man anyway so I think those things are just what they are again indicate that he's feeling frustration and he's getting rid of some of that built up stress and tension and it's a feeling of hopelessness he has hopelessness and helplessness he's going through this I don't see any deceptive cues at all and these are only I would say cues of truthfulness as we go through because I think he's being honest we're not seeing anything that looks weird or odd or out of place in this situation Greg what do you got? one that I think I would scrutinize and that is when he says when he's talking about this is as far out of character for her as anything could be he raises his brow that doesn't mean that he thinks she left but it could mean that deep inside is there a possibility for him and he could be thinking that so what I want you guys to all think about when you're watching this if you're some internet detective because there's plenty of folks who solve crimes that just because a person does something doesn't mean that they're hiding something but a person can have feelings of uncertainty certainly around this and he said she would never leave the dog she would never leave the children didn't say anything about himself that is going to be something somebody seizes on one person can't know another person's mind we can't with all our body language skills we can't know we can feel a certain way but he's factual to your point and I look for clusters I look for deviations and reasons why I should think that means something and when he starts to talk about how things are working and he's editing as he speaks look at his hands his hands are in front of him working on exactly what he has to say and then when he smiles that smile is just punctuation for what he's thinking at frustration when he says frustration look at the disdain mark you always say contempt is for people disdain is for the situation great call that raised upper right lip shows something's going on there and then his brow up is did it when you took her back there this guy had confidence this dog is going to do something chase my experience with springer spaniels was very different yours clearly had the dumbest dog on earth one time who was a springer spaniel who I would have to go into the surf and get so she didn't drown just to give you an idea was your name I can't Cassie Cassie and this verbal click here at the end is disappointment that the dog could help is all I think it is I don't think there's anything profound in here but I would pay attention to that request for approval when he says it's so totally out of character for mark what do you got exactly the same frustration the disdain happening there the imagery here or the metaphor hell and hellish again hell is full of pain and chaos and so he's not not able to put words to the feelings but can give you an image that hopefully you can attach to of hell and hellish he says some sign at the end of it and we get a collapse of the gestures and we hear that collapse hit his legs in a loud slap but just as you were saying there Greg about that vocal click as well I'd say that is disappointment and resignation and you know difficult to see in this situation because we have this idea that he's put forward of hope and at the same time we have disappointment and resignation happening at the same time now it's not to say you can't have the two things at the same time and at some point hope will come more forward and sometimes resignation and disappointment will come more forward but it is the two things at the same time that he's grappling with which again is tricky for the body and mind to deal with the body and mind like one thing like the body and the mind is lazy it's just likes to do what it can do lots of different things but it doesn't like to so it likes you know one track and here he's grappling with two very dissimilar ideas and so you know in my mind I'm seeing somebody keep quite a calm and repose and really manage this situation actually very very well given the imagery that he's using what he's feeling at this time you've told us a bit about who Nicky is was she ever the sort of person who might go away for a night or leave for a few days you know what I mean it's about as far out of character as you could get you know I truly mean that like even as a couple on the odd occasion if we ever do have a night away from the girls because the girls are our world we got for meals the girls come with us our home yeah everything that we do is the girls are in it they're involved in it and that feels right you know that's how we love it we love our little family we love our world and your gorgeous dog Willow's been spending a bit of time with us as well and it's also that thing that Willow may well have seen I know to Nicky I know and that's another layer of of frustration and and hell to it you know it's a hellish situation with the layer of hell that no not knowing what's happened yet and then also having Willow who probably does know what happened but she can't she can't tell us can she and she's a very sensitive dog I did take about their first thing on the Saturday the next day I took about their first thing how did she react to that then I was praying and hoping once we got to the gate that she would do something different take you somewhere away just give some sign bless her she just went through the gate like any other normal day we ran into the field and looked at me excited that she was there for a walk I was saying to her where's mummy where's mummy you know and she was just looking at me like you know let's go for a walk there's been a lot of publicity around Nicky's disappearance hasn't there and I suppose you are one of those stories that is very much talked about on social media at the moment I don't know whether you've read the stories of accusations all the theories that are out there does that upset you or are you happy that people are talking about and trying to find a solution it would be upsetting of course if I let myself read it all don't get me wrong I have seen some stuff most people have been amazing you know you always gonna get that 2% of people that for whatever reason you know say and do not very nice things but I don't want to give any energy to that like my energy is just finding Nicky I read one that said the police need to look at the partner and I'm sort of like well yeah that's the first thing that they do like of course it is I knew that that would happen on the first day I expected that I said to them do it and get that out of the way and then focus on finding it and focus on the rest of it so that's exactly what we did that was done, ruled out obviously and then move on so whatever people want to say if that's what they want to think that's their business, it's not mine Chase what do you got show some contempt here and anger and spatial expressions for the people who are being hateful online, I think I would too that's all I got, Mark what do you got yeah exactly the same, of course it is gives a double shrug there if I was worrying about him I would want to see a single shrug on, of course it is something up there, double shrug what are you going to do of course they're going to come and look at me first of course, absolutely then that was done obviously and great glare there in his eyes and an eye roll and contempt at the same time for those who don't think it's obvious that he's not involved Greg what do you got on this one I'm going to reiterate the one you said this is the single most powerful non-verbal in the entire video when he does the eye roll with the widening of the eyes and a slack lower jaw and the contempt he's just illustrating how absurd it was that they came to him that usually you don't seem guilty people so it's a powerful message oh yeah you guys pretty much nailed it but I think as far as huge cues that you'll see as a person just beginning to get into this you're going to see him chew this out of his mouth that's a big huge cue outside of the baseline we've seen so far pretty much we saw a little bit earlier but not as big as this one and this lets us know where it indicates that he's angry about these accusations that he's read online and he's seen some of them how could you not do that again that goes back to being frustrated at the same time he was seeing him a little bit more settled in to where he's sitting he's back to his almost to point one on his relaxed even though he's a little bit angry he looks a little bit more relaxed or like he did at the beginning he's back to his comfort zone for the question and then as the question is being asked we see him he almost blinks the whole way but he catches himself and doesn't blink the whole way then when it hits the part about the accusations he closes his eyes and stays blinked I guess you'd say a little longer or a lot longer than any blink we've seen so far so he's letting that register he knows what it is and that's him getting mad and I don't think this is one of those guys that pops off and gets angry because usually somebody does that to go they'll close their eyes and you'll see the teeth and that he'll go sideways but in this we don't see the eyes close a little bit so I don't see this guy's personality type is like popping off and getting angry or anything they move and they're still fairly plentiful everything is sounding the way it should is voice tone and cadence are back to the baseline that we're used to seeing everything looks the way it should sounds the way it should except for that little bite in the mouth there in the eye blink thing I think we're all pretty much on the same page there's been a lot of publicity around Nicky's disappearance hasn't there and I suppose you are one of those stories that is very much talked about on social media at the moment I don't know whether you've read the stories, the accusations all the theories that are out there does that upset you or are you happy that people are talking about and trying to find a solution or it would be upsetting of course if I let myself read it all, don't get me wrong some stuff most people have been amazing you're always going to get that 2% of people that for whatever reason say and do not very nice things but I don't want to give any energy to that my energy is just finding Nicky I read one that said the police need to look at the partner and I'm sort of like yeah that's the first thing that they do like of course it is I knew that that would happen on the first day I expected that I said to them do it and get that out of the way and then focus on finding it and focus on the rest of it so that's exactly what we did that was done ruled out obviously and then move on so whatever people want to say if that's what they want to think that's their business it's not mine but I know you've also been struck by the amazing response locally and just being here for today everybody's talking about it everyone's asking how you are and the local community whether they're standing out on the street corner or putting posters up or just asking questions they are doing an amazing job it's absolutely incredible like it's heartwarming it's giving us an immense amount of strength and it's kept that that hope so high that we can't thank them enough how are you keeping it is that the kids is that your natural positivity it's all of those things of course it's the children of course but I am naturally a positive person and I believe that you get out of life what you put into life and that's how we are as a family and so what we're going through now is like unprecedented hell but that hope and that positivity in me is stronger than ever and I'm never ever going to let go Nikki would never give up on us ever she wouldn't give up on anybody and we're not going to ever give up on her we're going to find her Greg what do you got yeah this is what I call emphatic message number two she would never give up and neither will we this is a second message that uses the same body language the same pitch tone and cadence of telling telling telling the same emphatic body language the same emphatic words that chin up again this is just like the one where he was saying earlier she would never have done this and that kind of thing oh no we need to search the entire earth so here's the second emphatic this is a big deal because he's only this emphatic only showing anger when he's trying to drive home a point and there's one thing that points to his hopelessness when he says they have kept that hope he almost he just drifts off when he says so high that is the only place where he changes his tone and I think it says something about how hopeless he's feeling that's what you need to watch chase what you got same stuff I'm hoping for a miracle for this family I'm done yeah I mean this is a lead up to our our next video for me where he gives what I would call is a belief statement which is important for the next thing that he says in the next video but he says you get out what you put in you get out that's a belief because we know that's not always the case you put in a lot and you don't get anything out but he says emphatically you get out what you put in he's gonna bring that back in our next video and it's incredibly important as to why he does that and also what that allows us to understand about him and and any relationship that he has to this disappearance Scott what do you got on this one here's his chance to go into redirection to make it about him and he doesn't even go near it that's his shot right there it's wide open he can go right in and do it but he doesn't do it I feel so bad for this guy so that's all I'll leave it there everybody's pretty much covered the main thing but I know you've also been struck by the amazing response locally and you know just being here for today everybody's talking about it everyone's thinking how you are and the local community whether they're standing out on the street corner or putting posters up or just asking questions they are doing an amazing job it's absolutely incredible it's heart warming it's giving us an immense amount of strength and it's kept that hope so high that we can't thank them enough how are you keeping it is that the kids is that your natural positivity it's all of those things of course it's the children of course but I am naturally a positive person and I believe that you get out of life what you put into life and that's how we are as a family and so what we're going through now is like unprecedented hell but that hope and that positivity in me is stronger than ever we're never ever going to let go Nikki would never give up on us ever she wouldn't give up on anybody and we're not going to ever give up on her like we're going to find her there is a chance isn't there that somehow she might be out there even watching this if you could say something to her what would you say to Nikki now just how much how much I love her how much us as a family love her and need her how well thought of how much our friends love her and need her back and we're never we're never going to be the same until until she is back just come home are you going to be okay I will as long as she as long as she comes home but I have to be okay for the children but but obviously the hope the hope inside me that well that she's going to come home that I can't let myself you know think of anything else it isn't it isn't an option in my head we deserve we deserve a happy ending to all of this you know you can't you can't have this level of support this level of love and compassion and hope and prayers without getting a reward from that in my mind that is impossible when you think of all the hope and everything that's going out there it has to come back and that has to bring her home I really appreciate you talking to us I know it's impossibly difficult you described your life at the minute as as a living hell I hope what you said makes a difference as well and I think everybody watching this will join me in saying that we all hope that Nikki comes home and that she is safe and well and you can be back together thank you Mark what do you got sad it's tragic this for me is the biggest break in baseline that question are you going to be okay look at how long he takes over that look at how he's searching for the answer to that and what he comes up with is this value statement of you get out what you put in the belief and the faith that you can't have that level of input without the reward yet we deserve we put in so much the community everybody has put in so much that we deserve the reward of getting a back it is impossible that we don't get that payoff that's a belief and I truly hope that fairness and reciprocity of that action in pays off but what it is is a true belief and faith in reciprocity you get in you get out what you put in I hope that becomes true for him and his family Greg what are your thoughts yeah I'm hoping for the best for this family I'm going to tell you that there's a whole lot of stuff here that people are going to jump on and I see it myself and I'm going to tell you why I hope this is but there's a hmm that's an odd thing for him to use in this thing it's a little snort and then there's a half smile that's a little odd compared to his entire baseline now there could be reasons it could be skepticism or pessimism at the idea that this is happening but then there are two other things that make me go wait a second let's poke a little harder he doesn't say we will find you he just says just come home why that's a weird choice of words for this deep into this problem I don't think this guy's got anything to do with whatever has happened maybe he just has some kind of suspicion because it's days in there's no evidence he brought it up the fact there might be some objects if something had happened maybe he's got his own doubt his own second nature humans are going to wonder about what did I do or maybe did something else happen and then when I go back at that request for approval at the opposite of her nature and then we deserve a happy ending I always like to be really certain this piece right here just makes me wonder is it just because he's having doubt that maybe something could have happened that she could have left but it's a weird choice of words and people are going to seize on this I'm going to say if you've got doubt in the back of your head you would probably use these words too and we don't know the guy's normal set point you know happiness set points default negative default positive we can't tell any of that so I'm not going to point at him because he's been so clear through here I don't think he has any involvement in this whatsoever and I would not point to him being a bad actor in any situation chase what you got yeah I agree with you and I think directly to your point I just think that that idea that there's a potential that she just up and left would be in anybody's head because we don't want to assume the absolute worst that might be assumed anybody's head and I think that might lend itself to the idea of the first statement of everything in the house was more organized and set up than usual that morning like everything was unusually smooth that morning and as far as the rest of the statement goes I'm a huge fan of covering the psychological vulnerabilities of guilty people I'm skipping Scott all right some are going to be under the impression that he switched you with she because the beginner will see the person just starting to get into this will be reading books and trying to understand the differences in pronouns and she and you and how those things are mixed up as a person who's done something they shouldn't have done or talking about the person they might have done it to the way that those tenses will change but in this case he does say you he trades you with she but that's because he's talking and answering to the interviewer he said what would you say to her and he's telling him what he would say to her but not saying it verbatim like he's talking to her let's keep that in mind as you go through this it's so important because some people say here's what you missed no we didn't miss it what happened is he's telling this guy what he would say to her as he's answering the question the way it was asked to him there is a chance isn't there that somehow she might be out there even watching this if you could say something to her what would you say to Nicky now just how much how much I love her how much us as a family love her and need her how well thought of how much our friends love her and need her back and we're never going to be the same until until she is back just come home are you going to be okay I will as long as she comes home but yeah I have to be okay for the children but obviously the hope the hope inside me that that she's going to come home I can't let myself you know think of anything else it isn't an option in my head we deserve a happy ending to all of this you know you can't have this level of support this level of love and compassion and hope and prayers without getting a reward that in my mind that is impossible you know when you think of all the hope and everything that's going out there it has to come back and that has to bring her home I really appreciate you talking to us I know it's impossibly difficult you've described your life at the minute as as a living hell I hope what you said makes a difference as well and I think everybody watching this will join me in saying that we all hope that Nicky comes home and that she is safe and well and you can be back together yeah thank you what do you think we've seen at this point yeah here's what I'm going to say about this is that if he has lost his his partner here and he's nothing to do with it he will be experiencing grief what you heard in that last video is what we call grief bargaining which is one of the stages of grief where you bargain to get the person back he literally says look we've done all this we deserve this back this is a classic talking to external entities that rule life for us in our minds and going come on we've done everything play the bargain we get her back that for me this is absolute grief I have no I can't see it any other way Chase what do you think yeah this is just a tragedy for him and these little girls and wherever she is I'm sure it is for her there's a lot of media backlash about armchair detectives which I think we maybe fall into that category and I just want to add that over the last few decades just thousands of cold cases and crimes were solved by online communities and I think this is partly because it just presents an opportunity for law enforcement to gain lots of insights into cases that were previously inaccessible or too time consuming for them to pursue on their own and I think a lot of times just picking up on clues or pieces of evidence that are overlooked by law enforcement maybe just due to lack of manpower or resources and I think in the end there's a singular police perspective and then going outside of that there's a thousand perspectives or tens of thousands in the armchair world and some of which of course like everywhere in the world are people who are just Greg? Yeah guys I think this is one of the worst we've seen in a while let's hope for the best outcome all we're doing is telling you what many years of observing people in multiple situations and you can say well you've never lived in Lancashire yeah we haven't but what we can tell you is we've seen a lot of people under duress a lot of people in situations I'll tell you that what Chase just said boils I am a big fan of proverbs and adages many hands make light work the more people who look at things the more opportunities you can get to see those things what we're not telling is that we can read this guy's mind not what we do at all we're looking for symptoms those symptoms will indicate things we would look for the reason I pointed out places where I saw stressors also Mark said it best he's in grief whatever cause that grief doesn't really matter and when we're in grief and something like this happens our brain is going to play on many tracks so when you're looking if you're a person who's saying oh he did it because of this or even because of this last video I want you to think about what else could be presenting itself as a result of that stress of having two children who no longer have a mother of feeling all this stress what happened trying to figure all that out that's what we're trying to point out Scott what do you got yeah I think this is a great example for someone who's just starting because they're actually getting to start from the beginning of seeing someone who isn't guilty of anything he's not showing any deceptive cues everything looks the way it should and that's great that's you don't see that very often going back to what Chase was saying we're dealing with armchair body language experts and detectives and stuff and the thing about those are I'm glad they have those I really do enjoy that because I remember as we all do I remember being little and hearing things and seeing things and saying I think they're seeing things on the news back in a long time ago and going I don't think this guy did it not knowing why but just saying he looks like he's not being honest to me that people like doing that and I like what we're doing trying to help them become what they want to become they may not want to go into it as deep as we do but a lot of them do but they want to have part of that in their tool kit on their tool belt to be able to reach in there and go okay here's what we're dealing with at a meeting at lunch at something else there are some people in there who are just mean you know who like you're saying Chase I agree with you some people are just mean and they're using it more for trolling you know and they're not really they just hear some things and go to get attention we know that happens because we see the comments sometimes but I'm on the side of a lot of those people armchair body language experts and the beginners as we all are because we train them we like being around and we like talking to them because when you see that light up in their face and they go I get it nothing like that you know be it police officers military dentists or healthcare that's great when they do that because they can use what they get from us they can take it back and use it and tell their friends when that starts happening those things start getting watered down and you lose a little bit of the validity of a lot of things but still if they're interested for real they can go back and learn from these people we talk about John O'Varre or Paul Ekman Pease everybody that we talk about on here so I you gotta watch out for the ones who aren't coming in into it from a good place they're coming to from a bad place and want to do and want to troll with it but everybody else I agree with you guys I think that that's good you know I think it's good and I do feel sorry for this guy and I hope things turn out better I hope she's run off with somebody for those little kids I hope I hope you know maybe she's got knocked in the head is walking around the woods and wakes up goes good lord what's going on the odds of that happening are very good but you know hopefully it'll turn out better than we foresee turning out I guess I think this was another good one and we'll see you next time keep your eyes open in the UK