 All right, welcome back. It's still the breakfast on plus TV Africa. And this time around, we'll focus in on the politics in Libya and precisely, a court in southern Libya on first day, in stated Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, son of the slain dictator, Muammar Gaddafi, as a candidate in next month's presidential election. That's according to verse media reporter in the dailies. And of course, we have joining us now, Paul Agimer. Many thanks for joining us on this particular discourse, Paul. Thank you for having me. All right, fine. I just read that a court has clad in the Muammar Gaddafi's son to run for next month's election. Looking at all the antecedents, looking at all that's been happening in Libya, is it a case of the apple does not fall far from that tree? So Libya is a pre-divided country today, if anything, some even may call it a failed state. UN is leading a process to try to patch it up. After Libya, after the long-term leader Muammar Gaddafi was killed in 2011, after ruling the country for 40 years. So it is still the Wuhan Foreign and Militia group? All right, we'll try and reconnect with Paul Agimer. There are three processes in this discourse. Merci. Libya has actually been into one form of political terminology that since Muammar Gaddafi's an ouster. And now the son has been clad to run for a presidency. And a lot of people are saying that he may not really be too different from his father. Well, it's really quite unfortunate because the Civil War, if you want to call it the first Civil War, 2011. And of course, it escalated into having rebels and that spread around the entire country and all of the protests. But the major concern now is that's the big issue. Apart from the fact that we're hoping that if this election eventually happened about the 24th of December, if I'm not mistaken, would it actually heal the wounds? Would it actually stop peace and all of the troubles that Libya has actually experienced in the past? Now, and also another big concern now is the fact that you have self-Islam, that's Gaddafi, Gaddafi's second son, who also had a role. Because if you follow, he still has a case with the international court, with the international community, because he was also involved in, at the time where you had the protests and all of that, he involved, he was really involved, he played a major role in abusing protesters and the human issue concern is also a big question. None of the court has actually cleared him of all of that. The point is, we still talk about the issue of peace and justice. And would you really see him having a chance? Would that not also bring back memories of all the pains that the people had actually gone through in Libya? So I really do not know if that's a very big, a good decision. And I don't know what chances he actually has. He stands chances of even contesting if he will contest the election, if there are chances of him winning the election, following the role that he played during the protests and the time under the revolution that actually happened. We do have Paul back online, Paul Ejema. It's good to have you join us. We're sorry for all of that break in transmission. Thank you for having me again. Okay, so let's continue the conversation with the fact that do you think that with the elections coming through in Libya, would it bring peace? Would you restore peace and heal the land of all of the troubles that Libya has actually gone through? I think somebody will be naive to believe that will heal anything or lead to progress because the elections by themselves cannot translate to peace or democracy. And like I was saying, Libya is a deeply divided country. There are still foreign militia groups and then there are, you know, war is divided, the East and the West are divided. UN is trying to mediate to have this. They have a unity government or government of national unity that is not really living up to the bill. The UN mediator, you can't believe it, at least resigned, we mentioned, a month of the election, that tells you something. He says also resigned on the job because of pressure. So I think it goes beyond holding elections. In fact, what should matter is what is the outcome? What will be the outcome of that? What happens after the election? Not really the fact that the election can take place. All right, Mr. Paul Ejime, you know, this younger Gaddafi was charged with two counts of crimes against humanity for alleged murder and persecution, but he never was extradited to face these charges. Do you think that the Libyans, as they had supposed, would actually be so forgiven knowing all that has gone on in that particular country for decades? The context is so important here. Not only that Saif is wanted by the ICC, he had also actually been sentenced to death by Libyan courts in one part of Libya in 2015 in absentia. So, but you see, his father still commands a case of nostalgia. And if you look at the way that Gaddafi was killed, much, a lot of water is being poured there. What the international communities are about is, they're not even looking at the welfare or the interests of Libyans because the Libyan resources are being, oil, for instance, being exploited and not to the benefit of Libyans. You may say whatever you have, you can say about Gaddafi. But when he was there, there was a measure of peace, you know, but now the country is divided. The country is virtually almost a failed state. So elections will not heal it. And the song is trying to ride on the crest of his brother's popularity when he was alive. Whether or not that will get him the position is another thing. And there are perhaps about 200 candidates that are running and most of them have bank packages. There is Khalifa, who is leading the so-called Libyan army. And then the only moderate person is the speaker of parliament. So it is just a way of trying to create an impression that something is walking. But I think the outcome will perhaps shock those who think that Libya is in a good state to conduct any credible election. There has to be peace-building. There has to be trust-building among Libyans. That has not happened. And then you have to want to force a government on them. It's not going to last, even if you've got any, you've got somebody elected, that is not going to bring the problem. Let them go to the briar, get to Libyans to, because Libya is at war against itself. And then reconciliation. There has to be trust among the citizens before you can talk about credible or transparent election. I think this is just deja vu. They are trying to give the impression that it is walking. But it's not walking. They have to let the process that took out Gaddafi. No questions asked. In fact, Obama, who was the president of America then, said that was one of the decisions he regretted. Because they took out Libya without thinking about the aftermath, about post-regime change, without post-regime strategy. And that has happened in so many places in Iraq, also in Afghanistan, so on and so forth. So the international community has a job quarter for it. OK. So what does this mean? And what will this mean if Sef al-Islam Gaddafi contests for this election? And what are his chances of winning, knowing the fact that he played a major role during the protests where he attacked his protesters? Yes, he was trying to protect his father, Gaddafi was his father, was in government. So I think he did what any son, any child can do. But the point is, had Libya adhered to the point where they can forgive and leave Gaddafi still controlled, still have the support that he used to have in his life. So his chances will be tested by the election. I had him with none of the candidates we named at the first round. And then he gets into Australia. And who knows? He's just one of the candidates. His chances are 50-50. And he could also be part of the king-makers if he manages to get himself to a position where he can have sufficient votes to be able to have an input into who now wins, eventually. All right, Mr. Ijime, but what does this really tell about the legality or otherwise of all of this that you have indeed said that he had been sentenced by a quota in Libya? And then again, he coming out to contest. Don't you think the average policeman should be arresting him? What does this really tell? Doesn't it spell lawlessness on the part of the Libyan system? And that is what we're talking about, that holding an election in a place that is so divided in lawlessness, this west and the east. There is a general who says he's the Field Marshal Hanifa. He's one of the candidates. He's the Tripoli government all along. And now he's thrown himself, thrown his hat into the air. So he's one of them. So it's not just Gaddafi's son. There are many who have the baggage that they are bringing to this election. So it questions the legality that you mentioned, the credibility of the process. And so is it an election for the sake of an election? And from after that, what happens? Because that is the issue. What is the end game? What is the objective of those who are calling for this election? Is it to give a semblance of security, of stability? When in fact, in reality, on ground, there is nothing to show that Libya is in a position to run a state, like a stable state. Elections cannot bring that up out. It is going down to address the issues that brought Libya to this, to his knees, from 10 years ago, from the killing of Gaddafi. The Indians are divided. And then you have foreign forces there, the militia groups of supporting one group or the other. So you can have a credible, transparent or free and spare election, or that is kind of conditioned. I think those who are calling for election, I don't know what they have in mind. But that is not the solution to the Libyan crisis at the moment. OK, I like the fact that I know that in the course of this conversation, you have mentioned that the solution to the crisis and all of the issues going on in Libya is not having an election. Can you categorically tell us what then should be done? What should stakeholders in Libya do? And of course, we also know the role the United States actually played in the whole Libya crisis. Is there anything that is expected of them? OK, yes. You see what happened in the Afghanistan. Going to impose a transparent democracy that does not work. You leave people to elect to decide their fate. That is what happens. It wasn't Libya's, per se, a section of Libya where the ones that were against NATO supported that group to take out and manage what the outcome. So that is the issue. Leave countries to run because of oil resources. That is what is happening. Now there is no government. So anybody and everybody can go and, you know, exploit the resources, the oil resources of Libya. That is what is happening. If it was under a government, that will not happen. But they're looking for either a government that is, you know, amenable to what they say, or the great crisis to be able to exploit that situation and begin to take the resources of the people. Let the Libyans be the one to determine their fate, their government, and the management of their resources. This external interference, because that is what it is, in the name of intervention, trying to help Libya. You can't allow Libyans more than themselves. Leave them to have their problem. No country can tell you that they don't have issues. But let them manage those crises. Let them manage their differences. And be able to govern themselves. It is about self determination. Let international communities not come under the guise of trying to actually, they are following their own interests. Let the Libyans be the ones to govern Libya. And Libya, and that is what should happen. This meddling has not helped and will never help. It didn't help Iraq. It didn't help Afghanistan. Is that going to happen in Libya? All right, thank you so much, Paul, Agema International Affairs Analyst for your input. Indeed, what the Libyans need right now is self determination. They need to manage the resources and of course, all that concerns them by themselves. We do appreciate your time. Thank you for having me. All right, we'll be taking a quick break and we'll come back when we're focusing on football. The mercy that deserved the Ballon d'Or. In a moment, stay with us.