 Hi everyone, I'm Sarah and welcome to School of Hustle. This episode is all about autism. Today we're going to be speaking with Jessica Margulies about the Spectrum Bow, a physical fitness program designed for those on the autism spectrum. We'll be speaking to founder Jessica about why she started it, how she did it, and what her vision is. We'll also be speaking to Sean Powell, Doctor of Psychology, who works with those with autism. We'll also be speaking with Allison Woods, who has autism herself to get her take on what it is like to have autism and how the Spectrum Bow would be beneficial. So let's begin this episode of School of Hustle. Welcome and thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited to learn about how you started this. Thank you. I'm excited. I'm excited to be here. Thank you for having me. Could you explain a little bit about what the Spectrum Bow is? Yeah, the Spectrum Bow is a non-contact physical fitness program for children with special needs, predominantly children with autism. You know, it's a program that focuses on boxing, it uses boxing as a way to facilitate following directions, communication, you go, I go, socialization, and most importantly, it's a program to foster a sense of confidence in a population that tends to be on the lower level of the confidence scale. What parts of boxing particularly do you think is beneficial for autism? Certainly, certainly just the movement itself is going to be helpful, also interacting with the coach, also interacting with others who are also going through the same program. All those things are going to be very beneficial. For everybody, being social and talking and just being with another human being is very natural to people, where for me it is incredibly difficult. I'm great at learning things, I'm great at learning information that's presented in a logical way, step by step, but one of the biggest issues is applying that for myself. There are lots of different programs out there that really help people on the autism spectrum with their ability to communicate, because it is a disorder of communication, help them with their ability to move, and I think help them develop what we call a theory of mind that's understand what another person is thinking. So let's go a little bit back in time here. I know kind of how you started this, but if you could just talk about how you founded this amazing organization, what was your idea behind it? Being a special ed teacher and also being a fitness instructor, there wasn't a lot of opportunities. I sought out for children with autism to be active, to be engaged in any sort of community. I started boxing to alleviate stress, and when I started boxing, the way that I felt was unlike any other way that I felt before trying any other fitness. I felt confident, I felt like I could take on whatever came my way, and working with children with special needs, I know how frustrating it is for them to find this feeling. A lot of the times they feel outcasted or just frustrated with not being able to fit in, and I thought to myself, wow, this would be such a great feeling for my kids with autism to feel, and I decided to put the two together and started the spectrum bout using a boxing therapy in order to elicit all those things that I wanted to get from my students, such as communication, mainly confidence building, and all that socialization, and I used this sport of boxing to do that. I think it's so cool that the whole reason your business was started was because you wanted to find a way to release your own stress. What was the process of actually coming up with that idea and getting your first student? Because I can imagine it may have been, some people may have had questions about, is it really a good idea to put an autistic kid in boxing? Yeah, that was definitely a huge hurdle. It's very frustrating for these students to not be able to communicate with us or process their thoughts, and so a lot of the times we see aggression, and just like you said, the first question on parents' mind is why would I teach my already aggressive child how to box? It's actually the opposite. We think aggression and fighting, but it's actually a sense of control, and it's a form of a dance almost, you go, I go, and so for those aggressive students, we kind of use the program in order to teach them, okay, just like you and I, when we need to get out of frustration, we know that we hold it and we don't act upon it on someone whether we want to or not. And so it's kind of a form of we teach them, okay, this is where you alleviate your aggression from the day and you only hit a bag or pads when your gloves are on, and it gives them a sense of calm and they know that this is when I can let that frustration. Boxing would be really important to kind of give autistic people another resource to put their anger, frustration out. I think once you show a person boxing, if they have an interest in it, they'll focus on that. I have a sister that has a disorder, so I understand what it's like to deal with that. Do you think that they remember that throughout the day and when they're having this trouble communicating or maybe someone's not understanding or do they go back to that thought in their mind where, okay, I have my lesson today, I'm going to hold this in so that I can actually take it out there? Yeah, of course. I've had multiple situations. Being a teacher of children with special needs and working predominantly with children with autism, you know, a lot of the times the strategy that we use is something called a social story or a script to teach kids how to get through certain parts of their day. For instance, when I want to engage with a teacher, I can raise my hand or tap them on the shoulder. And a lot of the times our students will repeat that all throughout the day and that's how they remember these situations. Now with boxing, they kind of learned like, oh, this felt really good and I reinforced in my class like this is where we get out our aggression and you're doing such a good job. And, you know, I've had parents tell me that one student was getting bullied, a verbal student and he was aggressive before he started and a child was bullying him and he said before he would be aggressive towards that student. And with boxing, he actually walked up to the student calmly and said, I'm not sure why you're saying what you're saying, but I'm not afraid. And walked away and boxing gave him that confidence to know that he's strong enough but he needs to control it and he can control it and not engage in that aggression. That's so inspiring. I learned that there's a lot of issues with adults that have autism not having the resources or not having opportunity. Yeah, I think a lot of the state and federal programs are aimed really at children and once people are in that adult camp, you know, the funding for that disorder goes down significantly. Yeah, specifically for adults or kids who are coming out of the school system, we're dropped a lot. You know, the day we graduate, what now? We don't have those systems that schools do and a lot of us because of it are unemployed. One of the things about that we wanted to do was not only give a therapy program for children and adults on the spectrum but also give back to the community and give them more opportunity and we just had our first graduate of our program. That's so exciting. What did you do? I've been in my program for four years now. Is this Joshua by chance? I knew it. Joshua was featured on your Today Show feature and he is just the coolest, sponkiest guy. I loved watching him. He is so into boxing and can you tell us a little bit about him because I think his story is really inspiring and a great example of the impact that spectrum can make on kids' lives. Yeah, so Joshua started with us about four years ago. We were at a gym in Brooklyn. It was just when we had started the program. I remember his very first day. He wanted nothing to do with the program. As per the usual, I totally get it. You're like, trust me, it will be good. Just try it. He maybe got like five minutes of work from him the first day that he came. Okay, it's a process. Exactly. It was frustrating for the parents. It was frustrating for him. At first they were like, I don't know. And I said, trust me, keep bringing him. It's not going to happen right away. And I tell this to a lot of my students. Every time he would come, we would get a little bit more and a little bit more. Did it happen in a week? No, but he's been in the program for four years. He is my star student. He knows the program on the back of his hand, off the back of his hand. I'm now running Zoom classes with him and he's teaching me, which is wonderful. Wow, wait. Okay, so because of COVID-19, you've had to shift to Zoom classes. So tell us a little bit about that experience as a business owner myself. I've seen a lot of changes that I've had to deal with. And I'd love to hear what you've gone through. So how are you adapting? I kind of offered this as perhaps a preschool, like before school opportunity or a break. 20 minutes to 30 minutes, depending on what the kids can handle. And it's just kind of like a moment to get up and move our body. Instead of just sitting there and doing work, they need to move. They need to maybe be silly for 20 minutes with me. I don't know. Maybe we get like two punches in, but at least we're moving. And now going back to Joshua, we're actually going to be offering him a potential job as a trainer. Does he know that yet? He does not. His mother does. Hopefully you'll offer it before this interview comes out. For children with autism to have another peer that's also on the spectrum is so much more relatable than an adult coming in. And I've had like very hard to work with children come to the program. And once Joshua steps in, it's like night and day with these students. One of the things that I love so much about people on the spectrum is they are very accepting of each other no matter what is going on. I think the biggest thing is just because we're autistic and would rather be alone or we need breaks. We also want to be with people. We want to interact. A lot of us want to find love, want to find camaraderie, want to find a meaning. And it's such a disconnect because we want these things, but we're so confused by how to do it. Sounds like you're learning from them too. Just like they're learning from you. I think we can learn a lot from autistic people. And in so many levels, not just about communication, but empathy and understanding and being more open minded. Correct. I mean, I think it's just a matter of how we see, how we see the world and how we see others. Yeah. I think one of the most amazing things about working with people with special needs is as you're adding to someone's life, you're changing their life, you're making it better. And, you know, I just, I love to be, that's, you know, being a personal trainer as well. That's, that's what I do. I want to, I want to improve on someone's life and help them. And I think that's beautiful. It's, it's very inspiring. Let's talk about how you actually launched this now though, because this whole show is about entrepreneurship after all. So the spectrum about is a nonprofit. How do you start a nonprofit? Do you have to get funding? What was your process? That's a really good question because it was a process. Like I said, I was a teacher. I did not go to school for business. Right. And so that was a learning curve. Wow. Yeah. Still doing. I remember the very first day I was like, okay, it's just going to be a business. I like bought how to run a business. Don't we all, we all start there. We're like, how do you and Google and just fill in the blank over and over again. Yeah. So that was just, that was interesting. But, um, you know, I met a lot of great people along the way that really believed in the idea. And, you know, from getting my first shot to being able to run it at Gleason's gym in Brooklyn, the owner of Gleason's is an amazing human. Um, you know, I told him, I just, I want to walk up to anyone. Um, that's a very important skill to have though, as an entrepreneur, the ability to have the courage to just try, even if you fail, just keep trying because eventually it works. And you're an example of that. Yeah. I mean, my friend told me I was crazy. I was like, I'm just going to tell him about it and see what he thinks. And, um, you know, and he loved it and he said, well, do it here. And I said, yes. We did. And you know, it was great. It is challenging for children with autism. It's loud there. There's, um, you know, it's not your typical equinox gym. It's a little gritty. And it's a boxing gym, but that's what makes it special too. But I think for autistic kids, um, and correct me if I'm wrong, but, um, I think the majority, uh, don't, and don't like loud noises. Yeah. It was challenging. It is good to learn how to deal with the noises, but it was very challenging. Um, and we are so grateful for that opportunity. Yeah. So do you have to move somewhere else? I had to move in order to, um, give my students what they needed. I met a lawyer, um, through a friend who really, really was touched by what the program was and what I was trying to accomplish. Um, and he helped me. That's great. I decided that a nonprofit was the way I wanted to go, mainly because of what the program was and, you know, what I wanted to be for the community. Um, and that was a process in itself. Um, also took a big chunk of change. So that was fun. Um, so did you have to do any funding for the nonprofit? Yeah. A lot of it was from my savings and thank God every day, I have the most amazing family who are very supportive. Um, they're my number one investors in, um, about fitness. So we were able to fund the 501 D3 and get that up and running. Can you tell me about a 501 three? I don't, I'm not even sure what you just said because I don't run a non-for-profit. So a 501 D3 is your nonprofit status. Okay. It gets you the tax exemptions. Um, you know, it sounds all great and phenomenal. And I'm still, you know, learning about all of this, but you know, coming with, when you do have 501 C three, 501 C three status, uh, you do have tax exemptions. However, I need to have board meetings and all the money needs to be allocated. Um, it needs to go back to the programs. You can pay employees with this, obviously. Um, but do you have taxes you have to pay? Or is there no taxes? Yeah, there is taxes. Um, for instance, you know, all my trainers are independent, um, contractors. So for now, does that mean they're, they can be covered within the business, even though they're not full-time employees? Um, so they actually, as the businesses right now, cause we're still very small, um, they would, they get that, um, W two. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. And then it's qualified as a nonprofit because it's still staying within the business. Exactly. And so for me to pay myself, which I haven't in five years. That is dedication right there. That shows that your heart's in this. Yeah. You know, it's been such a long road and everyone asked me like, you haven't seen the dime in five years and you run every single class and are doing every single training. Um, it's not about that. Everything has been to give back to this community. That's why I initially started it. Yes. It's a hundred percent great to have a successful business. And that's what, what I also want at the end of the day. But, um, you know, I started this business for this population to give back to this population. Um, and you know, until I can get to that point, this business to that point where I, I can, you know, start paying myself or like other board members for the work that they're doing. Um, you know, everyone's on board with just really getting this program to where it needs to be. And I know you asked me earlier long term. Um, we would love for this program to be in possibly right now. We're at title boxing in Forrest Hills, but I would love for the program to be in every title boxing and, um, you know, and just be a therapy now that we are forced into zoom. It also opens a whole world of wow, I can reach a child in any country as long as they're awake when you are. Exactly. And so that's also another world that even though we're forced into this world, it's kind of brought to light more opportunities. So do you have a, a kind of timeline that is in your mind? Cause I know that in the long term, you do have to eventually make a profit. Otherwise it'll be hard to continue the business. There's definitely a timeline. Uh, like I said, I've been at this for five years and I've also been doing it as a full-time teacher. So I basically have two full-time jobs. So has gone to a point and it will not go further unless I 100% put myself behind it. Yeah. Um, I also, you know, have taken about to where I could on my own. Um, and I, you know, have amazing support that's there to help me to push me on that business aspect that I was lacking. Um, and, you know, I would love, you know, the next step is to really build about where it is right now. Um, I would love to see right now we only have class one time a week, but I would love to see every day. Um, and start taking data and building our curriculum, which is already in the process. And then once that's attainable, really presenting it to a grander scale and getting it, you know, not just where we are right now, but maybe more areas. What type of marketing have you done at this point? Have you used social media? What tactics do you use? Social media and also like I said, I will talk to anyone and I don't know where the time comes from, but I find it. Make the time. And I go to schools of children with autism. I reach out to previous people that I worked with in the autism world. Um, I reach out to organizations. I literally spent a whole day just emailing organizations, doctors, schools and people that work with children. Yeah. This is real. This is literally the school of hustle one on one right here. What you're saying? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I walked around with flyers one day just around the area and just handed it out. Um, way to hustle girl. That's what you got to do. So in 2016, the CDC reported that one in every 54 children in the US are diagnosed with autism. That number was shocking to me. I'm so curious. Do you as a psychologist have any insight on why so many people are being diagnosed with autism? It might be a tough question, but I was alarmed at the quantity. Well, the first thing I think is, I think people are diagnosed at a greater extent because the new spectrum diagnosis, it allows, uh, many people to now be brought in the camp. People need to be aware of neuro psychologists that they do assessments. If you feel that your children may be on the spectrum, find a new psychologist in your area to assess your children. Yeah. Um, I think having that diagnosis isn't necessarily like, um, damaging. I think people sometimes think that the diagnosis in and of itself is a bad thing. Once the diagnosis is put forward, then, uh, you know, treatment can begin. Well, you have a very good point. I think if anyone listening, if there's someone that you know, or maybe your child that could potentially have it, there's no fear in just getting tested to see, um, because then you can start taking the steps to actually find solutions. I've learned so much from you. Is there anything else that you would want to share? Now that you have this platform about people with autism. Uh, if we sound very complicated and difficult, once you put out the things, once you have to act very differently with someone with autism, you have to be really patient and you have to be really empathetic. We may come across offensive or you may come across too cold and rude sometimes, but really we're also really passionate. We're really intelligent. We have unwavering loyalty to our friends and the people that we admire, we do so with almost like a childlike wonder. That was wonderful. Well, thank you so much for speaking with us, Allison. Uh, I'm so glad to share this with everyone listening because it's really important to understand where you're coming from and, and help educate people. So I have one last question for you. Um, what is one piece of advice that you would give to entrepreneurs that are interested in starting up a business? It doesn't have to be a business like yours, but any business. Yeah. I mean the one piece of advice I would give if it's something that you're passionate about and that you can 100% see yourself waking up and being excited and knowing no matter what anyone told you that this is something that you want to do and something that just serves to be brought to life. To just go against everything and anything that's telling you not to do it and just, just stay behind it. And there are going to be days where you completely doubt yourself. Um, but those little moments that you see why you knew that this was something you had to do, um, is all worth it and to just keep going. And I can certainly attest to what you're saying that is exactly what it's like to start a business, but you're a great example of how something, some great idea can turn into something so inspirational and beneficial to many people. Um, it's been amazing having you on the show Jessica. So thanks for joining us and thank you for everyone who has tuned in today. If you want to learn more about Jessica and the spectrum about visit www.BoutFitness.org and follow them on Instagram at bow underscore fitness. And that is all for this edition of school of hustle. Keep up with our episodes on YouTube, Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, or wherever you stream and download podcasts. And if you'd like what you heard, please leave a review. It really helps us share with your friends and we'll see you next time. Thanks for watching. Bye. Bye.