 No. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Deb. I'm going to start that over again. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021, this meeting will be conducted via remote means members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via zoom or by telephone. See instructions below. No in person attendance of members of the public will be permitted but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. So I will call the meeting to order this 606 p.m. So welcome everybody. Thank you. Does anyone have any announcements I do not know. And we will review the agenda. So first we'll have public comment any member reports. The primary focus of this meeting tonight is to finalize the letter to the council read the APD Facebook post and video. So I will open the meeting to public comment now. And I will read the other thing. During the public comment period. The chair will recognize members of the public when called on please identify yourself by stating your full name for pronouns and residential address. Residents are welcome to express their views for up to three minutes at the discretion of the chair based upon the number of people who wish to speak. No speaker can see their time to another speaker this CSS JC will not engage in a dialogue or comment on the matter raised during public comment. So I see three attendees in the audience and I do see Lauren has her hand, her hand up. Yes, hi, good afternoon. Thank you. I wanted to just, even though I'm trying to sound out upbeat. The heat is really getting to me and so I'll make my comments brief. I live to a long metal drive Lauren Mills is my name. She her pronouns and I basically just wanted to share my thoughts of, you know, the community coming together. And I think we need to find ways to come together. Despite the, the, the new committees that have been formed which are wonderful in our addressing issues that that are important to us but I feel that we have not been able to really gather ourselves and I would just encourage us to find ways to do that. And also just to check up on, you know, friends and, you know, elderly residents that may need some extra help or attention. I, you know, have recently been at the senior center, and I was given a flyer so I just wanted to share that on Saturday, July 29. There's poolside movies. July 29 they're showing jobs at eight o'clock and on August 5 another Saturday they're showing the movie cocoon and these are family friendly and for everyone so I just wanted to just share that and also again just state that through this exhausting weather and emotionally exhausting times that we find ways to, you know, bring some joy and find ways to gather with friends and family so I hope you have a great meeting and thank you. Thank you Lauren for sharing. So just so everyone knows there are now five attendees listed in the audience, if anyone else would like to give public comment, you can raise your hand and we will admit you to the meeting to speak. So I think we can move along then to any member reports. Does anybody have anything to report back to the committee. This will come up during the I'm sure our conversation, but I have been approached by because I'm part of the community by people in the community that have been directly impacted by this youth police interaction. And they are distraught. And one of the things that came up in these conversations, and they were informal conversations they just wanted to express to me, their distress and their griefs. And that, you know, if there's any outreach that occurs from the town, the town administration, Cresc, etc. that they really really should handle it in a in a way that I guess speaks to just with their experiencing in terms of fear, apprehension. Report out that type of thing. And that one person suggested that maybe we need to establish, I don't know if it would be in Cresc or DEI, but a type of liaison that would just be, you know, a person from the community that could approach other community members particularly when something as serious as this occurs, where they could remain anonymous, but perhaps seek help. So, you know, they do want some outreach, but they want folks within the town to be respectful and to be careful in how that occurs. Thank you. Anyone else have anything to report back. So our main agenda item today is to finalize the letter. Yes, or our Pam Lauren is still a panelist. We could put her back into an attendee I'd appreciate it. Great. Thank you. Okay, I think we're good. And so D are you able to screen share. Yes, I am. So I believe D will screen share the document so we can work off of it together and make any edits as we go along. And we Yeah, folks were able to read over the document. Yes. So should we go from comments overall. And then we can actually go through the document itself and offer changes are, you know, there are any large issues with it, particularly in the structure and laying out a possible position because it's a possible position we have to agree upon this. So we can see it at the very beginning, stating our charge, which comes in the second paragraph. And really this is taken kind of from the conversation that we had last week. I saw it in Allegra, you know, we saw it but again is to be changed the two immediate points from the CSWG charge which are course now hours. Activation of crests, moving that along and then establishment of resident oversight body. So maybe there's something else to be placed in there but how we saw it there. And then talking about the incident itself. Mentioning the Human Rights Commission that they've taken some action and then going back to our charge. And then meeting that more, I guess more emphatically, and then establishing a timeline of the resident oversight board. And for those of you who aren't familiar with the CSWG report in the seven gen report. This was included this evidence of the 2014 Boston Police Commissioner report. And this is something that has remained unanswered within this town. And then coming back to the town's commitment to end racism. And I guess, going further and bullet pointing. It's possible. And again, these are possible ways in which we could take action. One of the things that has come to light. Since this incident is that, excuse me, there's this group in Boston citizens for juvenile justice. And they do a know your rights workshop for youth and for community members. That could be a possible thing that we might even think of co-sponsoring in the community with other groups and with crests. And talking about this was in the CSWG report. That's why I included all these hyperlinks, pretext stops, consent searches, that type of thing, which CSWG and seven gen research showed. This only increases negative impacts and interactions for BIPOC communities. It doesn't lessen crime. And then here is something that, again, we could decide on possibly, you know, within the scope of this, what happens in terms of families or victims of negative police interactions. So this could be a possible approach, a victim compensation fund to recommend. Or something else. I mean, we can, you know, decide upon something else. Again, I'm, we, Allegra and I were trying to create different possibilities. And then we wanted to make sure to address the youth and let them know that as a body as a part of this town, we care about them and their well-being. So we wanted to make sure that that was included here, even though it is going to be addressed to the town council. It is a public document. And we want our youth to know that we care about their well-being. And so then we simply concluded here. So kind of basic structure of the document, any comments or questions. And you can, I'm going to send the link just in case here. I'm sorry. That's what I wanted to do is send the link. Okay. I guess I have to go back over here. Stop screen sharing for a moment. And then am I able. Oh, I can't do chat in here. Right. Can you send the link through email Allegra while I'm screen sharing. Okay. And that way we can all get in here. And maybe it'll be easier to point to different areas. Yes, I don't know who's hand was up first because I was looking down the document. I'm sorry, my apologies. So I'll just go with who's at the top. Miss Pat. And first of all, I want to thank our coaches for the draft. I read it. I thought it was well done. It covered most of the areas that, you know, I was hoping that we will touch upon. This has not been a very easy time for so many of us. Just like Dr. D. I have been approached by so many residents. Thanking us. Our committee CSJC for the work with study to do and feeling that the community at large, the people in power, have not made efforts to ease people's fears in this town. So I hope this will be a beginning since we're sending this to the town council to see what their reaction is. So I like the document the way it is. I think that the school system. In some way, should be involved in supporting our youth as well. And perhaps they could collaborate with the town and sponsoring the know your right training that was included in this document is my thinking. I also want to thank the Human Rights Commission and different groups who have, who have spoken up, made public statement. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Pat. I just want to echo what Miss Pat has said. Thank you both, Allegra and Dr. D for putting together a statement. I just had a clarifying question and I think that it's kind of already been answered. This statement is going to the town council. I don't know if that's a good question, but it sounds like that's a yes and then I just wanted to know if we're putting out a statement in regard to the incident, or trying to put out a statement in regard to the CSSJC. I thought process, it does seem a little lengthy, and I think that it's good, the parts that are hit, and I don't know necessarily what I would take out. Maybe I have some idea, but at the same time I just wanted to know what's the overall goal of the statement. Great question, so I think that's something we need to agree upon as a committee. What the conversation I had with the co-chair was that there are several statements out there already. And so functioning as a town committee. I think it's important that, and this is just my opinion, I mean we can, again, it's about consensus, that we have a particular charge to fulfill. And within that particular charge, there's quite a bit that we can address in terms of not only this incident, but possibly future, you know, to intervention, to intervene on possible future situations that might occur. I think it's important that we function from the standpoint of CSSJC, because we all have, you know, I'm assuming different ideas around how this could be approached. What, you know, some of us may want, you know, such oversight to, you know, have the police fired. I mean, I don't know, it could be a myriad of things is what I'm suggesting. But if we look at our charge and function as a as a public body from the charge and what we were put here to do and approach it from that vantage point, I think we can still approach it. As far as having a statement about what occurred that it is not speaking to the values of this town supposedly using their words. It is not speaking to the, what we were entrusted to oversea, right, as the CSSJC. And that we should call for accountability based on our charge. So, again, that's where Allegra and I were coming from, but this body may want to do something else. I think, personally, the CSSJC as a body built into our charge is a sense of compassion. Social justice and accountability. Now, whether this is a good representation of that. I'm, I would like everyone's input so we do have a good representation of that. But I think what we've been charged with represents that. Thank you. I don't know if that answer the question. Thank you. Thank you, Phillip. I think I see dubs hand and then freke. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I mean, you know, I do have some, you know, as, as I had alluded to, I do kind of like, you know, like kind of editing things and stuff like that. Right, great stuff like that. Some just suggested changes. No, good. But I think though, but I think like one of the ways because I was trying to think like how we used to do it before we see as WG because I think like we would look at that, we would be able to look at edits before. So I think what we used to do we used to send the edits to Miss Moisten to Jennifer, and then Jennifer would then share it with those that are working on the letters and then you all would kind of put in, you know, the ones that you know, you agreed with or whatever and then, and then, and then we would discuss it at a meeting and then let's say, if you didn't accept one of my edits and I still felt strongly about it then I would bring it up again at the meeting, you know, type of thing. So the other thing like you all were saying would be the link, right, if we have the link, then we can kind of go in and say hey this is what, you know, I think, you know, would be a good idea in terms of an edit and stuff and then we could, you know, discuss it and, and agree the way. So this was just obviously for the future. No, that is great. I, I was, I didn't really, I didn't have a clear path on how to proceed without knowing if I was going to violate open meeting law so yeah. Yeah, so if that's how CSWG did it, it certainly makes a lot of sense to me, and it would go a lot quicker. So, exactly. Yes, yes, let's do that and I guess we would send it to you Pam. Well, I'm, yeah, I guess if we're, it all depends on when, when we're trying to get this out so if we're trying to get this out ASAP yeah then we, and if not would be Jennifer, you know, so we'd have to figure that out. Jennifer's not in the meeting Pam's in the meeting so that's what I'm trying to understand to not violate open meeting law. How should we proceed in terms of getting edits done quickly. So, I'm, I'm not 100% sure but I think that the working group might have been able to do those edits in a different way than the actual board. So that's something that I would have to, I am concerned that if you were editing as a group outside of this meeting that that would be a violation of the open meeting law but I'm not 100% certain of that. Yeah, that's why you know, again, I think this is something we need to explore for the future I think you know today we can just I mean I can get I can let you know what I have. And then we can just make the changes and stuff is I don't have like a lot and I have a couple of things. Yes, you send the, the link to folks email. I believe I did, but I wasn't able to get in. I did try to get into it but it's not it says I need access. You make a great permissioned up so I. Yes, well let me do that right now. Um, there you go. Now you should be able to get in. All right, and so what do you want me to do to like, put in some of the changes that I have. So what I'm going to do, I'm going to look at suggestion. So it's one moment, so it's in suggesting mode. So whatever you're putting in is we would have to agree to the edit, but we would see what you were suggesting as an edit. Okay, you understand. Okay. Yes, Miss Pat, and then I was going to say, I was going to say that we have Dr. Eddie hands off. Yes, if we can just allow everybody to speak and then we can dive into editing. Absolutely. Yeah, so, Deb, if you could go ahead and do your suggestions, or anyone else and again it's just real quick to explain for those. You mean you might know Google, how Google Docs work but in case you don't. So in suggesting mode, you can put in anything, and we would have to agree to it and accept the edit as a, as a group. Okay, so put in whatever you want right now. Well, right now, well, sorry, one more quick thing. Should I say request edit access because right now I'm not being able to make any. No, I got I got in, but now in the document it should I do request edit access. I actually make the changes in the. No, it's I just have to do, I guess, commenter. I think that works. And what's your email. What's your email. Let me see. Right now, it seems like I can do it now. Oh, okay, all right. If what you did. Yeah, whatever you did, ended up awesome. Okay. All right, Dr. So sorry. Okay, there you go. Good evening everyone. Thanks to the framers of these documents, it requires a bit of work to get this done. And it's a good platform, which we can then polish to get something out there. I think it is necessary to have a statement. I would first ask what's the out second what I believe it's Philip said about the goal but I think my question is what is the consequence of the statement that is when we put out a statement. What should we expect as the result, because I was under the impression that it was going to be statements regarding accountability for the events of that day, but to have accountability. It is necessary to know exactly what happened. And to know what happened requires more than just watching the video. So if we are interested in accountability, then I think we should be looking to ask for some review of those events and then speak to those events as we learn about them. If it is about the charge of the committee, then that's something different. But what I see from the document is that it's a mixture of boats, and in that sense, it doesn't have a target that it's aiming at. And so we need to figure out which what the consequences are for the statements that we will be making. So thank you for that it is a mix of both. I think strategically we're aiming down the middle that one, we need to it. I hate to use the term flex a bit of as CSS JC, but we are new committee. This is what we're charged with to watch for and ask for accountability for these particular particular incidences, particularly in light of not having the resident oversight group in place. So that's one one part of this in terms of knowing what happened, we do indeed have a sense of what has been shown to us through the video. But you have police officers saying that young people do not have any rights. Now, you're the political scientists, but from what I understand young people, old people, middle age people have rights. And so, you know, so when you say you don't know what happened, we know we have this a bit of time and evidence of what has occurred. We also have evidence people in the community. I did not want to include this in here, but because it hasn't been totally released. So if you're saying Dr at that we then asked for a report an official report, as the Human Rights Commission did. Let's do it. I think that is a great way to ask and have accountability in this town, we need to see this information published like now, since the police have not given a statement or report that I know of. We can only work with the evidence that's out there. So we can be stronger in some of the language, I agree. I was pitching down the middle. But if you'd like to be stronger in some of the language and what we're asking for. At the bottom here. I think that would be great. So we have the target here. We can affirm the following CSWG recommendations, but we can definitely have stronger late stronger language we demand that APD freeze hiring as recommended in the report with the CSWG. Their visioning sessions that were part of the CSWG report that were asked for that were agreed upon by the town council that hasn't happened. So your rights training, that's something that has come to light that is available through a group in Boston. They actually commented on in the media on what occurred with this video, this video is being used now by citizens for juvenile justice in training video of our youth being harassed. Resident oversight board, that could be a demand. It doesn't have to be a recommendation as I stated again I was pitching down the middle it could be a demand create now the resident oversight board. That's our job that's our charge. Establish protocols and utilize the Crest Department all nonviolent non criminal calls like now. Not a recommendation now. Eliminate pretext stops consent searches, etc, which are defined in the seven gen report and the CSWG report that we know through research does not help communities of color. So, you know, give me some idea that's why we're here to discuss how strong should it be recommendations, should it be a demand. How far do we go and asking for accountability would be hesitant to use strength I don't know if what we are looking at requires being strong or being soft, I think it requires being direct and clear in what we are interested in. I watched the video several times and whatever happened doesn't end with the video, because I think the female officer begins to speak about noise complaints so to definitely use something more. We do need to also consider that someone called about a noise complaint. These are things that are. Anticidents to the video and in a way can call her what we ended up seeing. And so definitely a request a recommendation. And perhaps that would depend on the language, but we don't need to know what happened, so that we don't have to come through this situation again. Absolutely. Yeah, so that would be one of the goals or the consequences I am looking forward to and as we go through the entire documents event. So other members of the committee will have things they would like to add or subtract that's the secret. Absolutely. I mean, in terms of their rights, those young people could have walked off at any point, they were not being arrested. So they were being harassed and being told by the police there was a noise complaint, you know, and when these kids asked about why do I have to show my ID, they were told they didn't have any rights. These young people. If they were charged with anything it would have been a misdemeanor, but they weren't being charged with anything and they could have walked off at any moment. Yet, our young people respectfully waited for the two parents that came to eventually pick them up. And we're very respectful. I mean I do, I did hear that in the video. Hi, can I jump in? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, well just so you know I did kind of go through and made some edits and stuff that we can talk about. So I guess like in terms of, you know, Mr. Dr. Freck is questions and also, you know, just want to, you know chime in right as one of the committee members and everything that for me when we talked about this, it's very important for us to be clear about what it is that we want right so there was this incident it was 15, well whatever seconds I'm not even sure how many seconds exactly and I actually put that in a lot of which we need to kind of figure that out. But there was this amount of time right that we viewed, and that we saw that there was, you know, inappropriate, unacceptable, unacceptable, horrific behavior right. So, we have to be clear, and I think this letter, you know, you know, clearly communicates that this is something that is unacceptable, and it's trying to address all these other aspects. And as, you know, CSSJC, we're the follow up committee from CSWG. So we need to come out strong and ask for that accountability. We need to make sure that it's very clear we have the video, but we also want to make sure that you are saying, for a kid that, yeah, there should be an investigation, but in the meantime, action needs to be taken because we've already seen with our own eyes, what has occurred, right. So we need to make sure and then what you were talking about Dmitry in terms of like, you know when they were saying that remember I saw in the, in the video where they said, they told the young people that they were detained. Once you use that word detained, you basically think that you're under arrest, right, and you have to do whatever they say, which is incorrect, like you said, that's not true. But they use that language, which is very intimidating, which is very much, you know, putting pressure on them to do whatever they want to do for them to, you know, kind of be telling them right to putting them in their place, saying you have no rights, you know, you're detained right now by us, you know, so kind of like really putting their power and displaying their power and letting them know that they, they, you know, yeah they don't have rights right that's what they were saying you don't have rights. So I think we need to be very clear and then in terms of what you're asking. And again, do we need to use, you know, harsher language, I'm not sure you know language that's even more clear I'm not sure that's something we need to discuss but in the end of my edits. I do feel we need to kind of say something like we expect the town to respond to our questions and or demands or requests, or whatever. I mean we need to, we need to really put it out there as this committee, right, that's part of the town. Like, we, we expect a response because I think if we just put out a letter stating all these questions stating all these things that we want to have happen but then don't say like, we want to hear back from with some action or maybe we need to say that right, I'm just processing it I'm just thinking about it now. Like, we need to hear back from you with some action, like some action items on action steps or, or maybe we need to say we need to get here back from you within a week. I don't know, we need to be definitive right because if we leave it open ended, then it's kind of like, Okay, we just put out a letter and you know what are we expecting back you know what what are we asking them to do, and make sure that they're going to do it. Yeah, they had their sense since I know other statements have been made but we want to, we want them to be held accountable to us. You know what I'm saying that's why we're out here to make sure that they're being accountable because obviously, they haven't done anything. They haven't put out like the statement by the town manager was not acceptable. That was not okay. You know so we need to make sure that we're very clear about that. I like the making sure that we expect a response and maybe we should put some type of deadline when's the next town council meeting. Like August. Okay, I guess that is next week. Yeah, it's mid August. Yeah, so if I may, can I go on. Yes. I just want to remind us all for the benefit of some of us who you know they didn't follow CSWG meetings. The reason why we have CSSJC is because CSWG we push to create this committee. Some council members didn't want this group to exist. They want to CSWG to like go away much sooner. But we pushed and have this created one of the major purpose of CSSJC is to provide recommendation. To the town, to all the committees in this town on social justice issues and public safety. That is our charge and I helped craft our charge along with Alicia Walker, and then the whole CSWG then you know give us input and edits and everything. Some of the things that I think helped CSWG to get some of our agenda for what is we demanded to have CSWG put on town council meeting agenda, like we, you know, we ask that we go and do presentation to them. I think this issue is so serious enough that our co-chairs show contact the town council chair to put us on the agenda so that our co-chair, they are our spokespeople to speak on our behalf and present this. But we can send the final draft to the town council, but it will be good to have our two co-chairs to present it to them and emphasize what is it that we want, what we are demanding, you know, the changes that we want in this town. I also feel that the goal, the consequences will be for these youths and their families and marginalized people in this town will feel supported that CSSJC is really taking this incident very serious. It's not only just this incident but other larger issues of racism in this town. So I feel that that's one of the consequences. I also want to quickly say as an employer myself, CEO of a company, I know sometimes personal issues are confidential, but I found out from a community member, a resident that, in fact, our state demand that each municipality send any disciplinary records of police officers. So if the town comes to tell us that they can't share everything, I can direct all of us the website on mass.gov where it says you send it to. So we need to know consequences for the police officers. Were they on leave without pay? Are they going to be fired? I mean training? I'm not a big fan of training. I was very clear about that at CSWG because the issue of racism in police is not about because they don't have enough training. Okay, so we need to know details of what is happening, what happened to those two officers, and it's part of the accountability. So I feel that, you know, this document was written, it's very powerful. I'm very comfortable with it. Thank you. Thank you Miss Pat. Allegra, you have your hand up. I do. So I just kind of was thinking related to this letter and I do appreciate kind of the distinction that Frecke made and I do think that we want both kind of like Dee said, and I'm wondering if under the kind of recommendations because I think what we have put in there is mostly broad based. So like what do we want overall to see in the police department but we maybe can under where it says, you know, we further recommend maybe we say something specific to the effect of like once an investigation has been concluded make this information public so that everyone has an understanding of what happens, you know, some something specific, a specific request or demand related to this particular incident not just to all of the changes that we'd like to see to the department. In addition, the CSSJC would like to recommend the following. Yes, so maybe a bullet under there related specifically to the incident. Release the report. Right. Yeah, something something like that. To to increase accountability again and possibly begin to rebuild trust although that might not happen right away. And one of Debs edits up in one of the other paragraphs kind of kind of helps let lay the groundwork for that as well. So can I just take the pulse and kind of ask if people overall have major content concerns with what stated or think that any, any major points are left out of the letter. I think they'd like to see other than I mean it sounds like there's some clarification of the purpose that still needs to be weeded out but APA funding APA funds could be used as part of victim fund compensation fund. ARPA. I know. Yeah. Funds. Yeah, could be used for but yeah. Okay. And when you say victim compensation. What are we talking about Miss Pat is it for community outreach is it for individual payments I mean what what are individual, individual payments. Okay. If people feel that they, you know, have experienced racial bias in this town, they show, you know, be compensated after it's been investigated. Maybe that will make the police to be more careful in interacting with marginalized communities in this town. Okay, well, I don't know why I know, but also I mean also I could envision it like when we're talking about a victim, victim compensation. I also could envision it as, you know, so what happened with these young people right so maybe some of these young people I don't know if they have health insurance or not but they want let's say if they want to go see a therapist or if they want to kind of deal with stuff like that. The funds would be there to allow this way doesn't even have to be, you know, post investigation it can be pre right to share resources with with with anyone that's kind of going through these things and this is what universities have to do right when someone files a complaint or whatever we share resources right with the students even before complaint is investigated, just to make sure that that person feels okay, you know, in terms of going through whatever they're going through whether it be discrimination sexual assault whatever the case may be. So I think a victim compensation plan could also help to do that, as opposed to just being post investigation. So does this then it speak to that. I think the original sentence that was in there spoke to it and perhaps we could put parentheses cash payment right services. Whatever that may be. I mean I guess ARPA is different than it coming from the police police department itself. Oh, okay. Well, I mean I don't know. I mean and that's why I don't know if we necessarily need to put do we need to put like where it's coming from because I like the fact that the police should, you know, why doesn't it come out of their phones. You know what I'm saying to put this out there for them, you know, or the town, I mean they need to figure that out. Yeah, that's right. That's not, that's not part of our charge. Okay, so yes, Dr. Freke. Thank you. I, I think we run the risk of putting the cuts before the horse and in that case what I mean is, in terms of priority, the first thing we're looking for is to have an investigation, and that should come first before anything else. The second thing is to acknowledge that the wrong has been done, and so speak to those who suffered that wrong. It turns out that that is the final parts of the document as it is and I think it should be moved up to be in second, and then we can bring down what we recommend. I think the committee, even though it's new is strong enough and stable enough that we don't have to put that front and center, but we can have that as a reminder of what we are here for and what we expect. In terms of priority, I'm looking at a call for a, an investigation where we find out what happens, then an acknowledgement that some harm or some wrong has been done to those minors, and then third, we could speak about our charge and what's our recommendations. Maybe if we do that, then that's going to change the structure of the documents and as we go through our point out, you know, those parts that I am looking to add or subtract as the case may be. So can you get into the document. Dr. Freke. What. Sorry, can you hear me. No, you went out. You went into the document. Yeah, and then that way it shows up as your edit. Okay. Okay, so I'd appreciate that. So in that case, please continue while I get into the great. Okay, so what do we think about that that would change the structure and emphasis of the document. So harm is what we are discussing in terms of this incident. But how we, where we should emphasize that is certainly up to us. Like I said, I was splitting it down the middle leg and I had discussed it. The first draft of this did emphasize the harm. And what's our role in this community, and what's our charge. So that is something that I always, you know, I was on the board of registers and it's like, sometimes the role was forgotten. So that's what you're charged with. Let's go back to that and remind folks that this is what we were sent here to do and we're trying to do that job. But what's great about our charge, unlike a board of registrar's for instance not to say that there's not care written within the bylaws, the CSWG actually wrote into our charge, a role of compassion and a role of justice. So anyway, yes, Phillip. I like what Dr. Freaky is saying and I was going to also second and suggest that I think for me and my first question and navigating what the statement is about, I think that we haven't put out a statement yet to the town to the community right as a group. Yet this incident happened and definitely needs to be addressed. And it gives and allows us the opportunity to address the incident as our top priority, because of the statement, but then also like you're saying is to then reiterate what the CSWG groundwork in frame is for and the importance of our committee and what our charge states so I would definitely second with Dr. Freaky is saying. Okay, so getting into the document to rearrange again, all of these we would have to approve as a committee but yeah let's let's see how how the rearrangement changes the emphasis. Thank you, Phillip. Yes. Oh, sorry. I was just gonna say Deb. I mean, I think that's the thing, you know, I mean, I guess I'll have to wait and see how the reorganization would impact it. Because yeah, I mean, investigation is important and that's what we have in there but for me, my main concern is obviously then in action, right. A lot of times, you know, people just say investigation in order to gain time, and then to let the community just kind of like, you know, you know, just less like to lessen their upsetness, right, so that then they, so that then it can be forgotten, you know, it's used as a tactic. A lot of times the investigation part. So as long as we don't lose the importance of the fact that a harm has been made. Period point blank. I mean that needs to be top and foremost a harm has been made because we've seen that video. And I don't need an investigation to see that the harm has been made. It was almost kind of like with the George Floyd situation right George Floyd was murdered. It was a video. But yet we have to go through the kangaroo court and everything and go through all of that the rhythm role to say that I put that he murdered him. It was clear to me that he murdered right right off the back. So a violation occurred. So as long as that doesn't get tainted and watered down. Then I'm okay with it. But I don't want us to just be like hey we're asking for investigation and blah blah blah no we want a harm has been committed. Very clear about that. And then talk about harm has been committed you know yes we you know we're looking at like about moving the, about the young people yes we can, we can talk about that. I think more in the beginning I like that, but not necessarily like the first thing should be about the investigation because that's always a tactic of the late. Absolutely and I think we've seen enough of that in this town. So many of us, we want immediate action, and that's what we were charged to, to, to hopefully secure on behalf of the community. Investigations can occur, and we can still demand action. Miss Pat. So I was going to say. Another aspect that we haven't talked much about is the, the healing work that needs to happen. CSWG had a foresight. In some of our meetings, when it came to, there was a list of issues that the town manager wanted us to address one of them was community policing. And we had to push back. We didn't have a CSWG meeting because we felt that we don't want police coming into our community until there is actually a process, some sort of visioning for the whole town and healing. And Dr. Barbara Love came to one of our meetings and talk to us. We put in a recommendation for that visioning and healing to be done, and it will require us money to do that. So this might be an opportunity to start that process. Our town is deeply divided. And so, while we're talking about how I'm being done, you know, we want to know exactly what happened to Dennis with you. We want to know exactly what happened. My point is, I want the youth and the families to feel that, you know, we, you know, we support them. I'm as police and come up with their own narrative. I mean, that's the history. Yes, we want, we want it, but it's not my biggest priority. I want justice for, for, for, for these kids and their family. And I'm as police, town of our mess need to pay up period. And there has to be a public apology, but the police officers. So that's not included in the statement that they have to apologize. Yeah. Okay, so is that something we want to include in the statement. Yeah, I think you all pose it as a question I did see. You pose it as a question, and then also in terms of the visioning it is there in terms of like, engaging community visioning but again yeah we want it to be more, you know, front and center. And we perhaps go through the document looking particularly at Debs edits right now just to kind of look like there was some content stuff that was added and some also some like easy. If that's what we want to do. Okay, let's get to the top. So, Debs are in purple, and it looks like freckate. I don't know what color blue that is, but it's a particular shade. So let's look at Debs it's a violet even. So are we approving this one, because we just need to do accept suggestion. It looks like this is just a change in a bit of the grammar. Yeah, I mean just to explain I just wanted to kind of stick with with like some of the lingo that we have from CSWG in terms of nonviolent because I just think nonviolent is more encompassing. And so you'll see that that's kind of the language that that I wanted to kind of keep throughout the document so we're consistent. And I took out like non criminal just say non violent because like I said I think that's broader. And if you say non criminal some things that are non violent is still be criminal. So we agree committee. Yeah, we actually went when I was editing, I said, aha, she wants to be consistent with CSWG so I agree with her. Okay, that's important. Yeah. Yeah. All right, so this one into for agreement there here body instead of resident. Yeah, so it should be like resident oversight board as opposed to body. Yeah, I would be is what is called. Okay, yeah. All right. Okay, next here, instead of encourage. Oh, yeah, I mean I just want to shrunk a language. Yeah, I agree. Again, I was shooting down the middle. You know, the man, the man. Yeah. So we will take that out. That is not joking, don't joke with her. I will not joke. No. All right, so there we go. And then Deb. Wait, this should be okay. They're here. Okay, that. All right. There's another. Yeah, okay. I have a question. Why did we, why are we deleting from the evidence. Well, go down, go down. Oh, that went over there. Yeah. Yeah, so why, why do we delete that from that one. This one over here is freckles. I think we're just doing mine right now. Right now we're going to handle dr freckles. Right now we're doing depth. Okay. Okay, things clear. So, okay, here. Yeah. The same thing just to be consistent. Yeah. Yeah. And then here. Added a sentence. Over here. Yeah, so over here is around the, the, you know, an investigation. You know, some, you know, we said, we support the scope accountability, then I said the video only captures and I, I don't know how many seconds exactly what is it that you said I like around. I believe it was 54. Yeah, 54 seconds of the interaction with the APD therefore the entire interaction needs to be investigated so I was just kind of to give a little bit more context. And then we further ask, because I think that's, that's important to say that we only saw, you know, a slither of it even though obviously was already a horrific slither. But what what else could have, you know, there probably was more violations that occurred, you know, and that's where the investigation is important. Okay, so let's continue hearing. For me, I just, in terms of filing, you know, a lot of times when it's filing is just kind of like filing something but really hearing them, you know, so I just felt like using a word like that but it could be another word though to that's more impactful. Okay. So is there another word we want here a means of safely hearing resident complaints. What it is this comes from. Like I was pointing out 2014 Boston Police Commissioner, he was hired to evaluate UMass police and APD so it was both after the the Blarney blowout right. And one of the things that he pointed out is that we do not in this town have a clear means of residents filing hearing get getting heard their complaints without in a safe way. Right now, the process is that it ultimately goes to the police there's not like a resident intermediary, there's not a way in which folks could safely and anonymously file a complaint. And so reprisals or repercussions. You know, there's a fear of that and that's what the Boston Police Commissioner, plenty of experience pointed out that we need to put in place that has not occurred. That was 2014. That has not occurred. So I don't know if hearing is the same as filing a resident complaint. Well, but then in your next sentence you say a safe and efficient means of registering complaints. All right. Yeah. So it's just kind of. And then my opinion, like a hearing the complaint with me would imply that the filing has already occurred but if we look at it in terms of official language right legal legalistic language as opposed to being heard in the community. That's the way I was taking it but I mean it's I'm fine with filing. I mean, well, no, but it's since there is another statement there to clarify. I think that's fine. But it's up to you. All right. So then here. A safe and efficient means of registering complaints made by residents has been continually neglected in the town of Amherst for many years. I don't know about a piece of modern community. Yeah, I'm very wordy. So thank you. Okay. Save me from myself please. Can we just put Amherst? Do we have to put the town of? Sure. Yeah, just Amherst. Yeah, let's do that. Be even less wordy. There we go. We're getting there. All right. So then are there any other. And then over here is just because you know how you started it with we reaffirmed the following CSWG recommendations and then you went into it. So that's why I took out the youth one because we didn't make those recommendations and that's why I put it down there when it says in addition to CSSJC would like to recommend following because this would be like, yeah, no recommendation. That's the next one. Yeah. That's why I moved it from there to down there. Okay, I'll have to correct that. Yeah, I can just put, but that's why I did that. Just so you know, that's it. That's a good consistency issue. Yeah. Okay. Because you know people are going to be reading this and they're going, but wait a minute CSWG. I know, I know. See, that's why that is why I was coming out the thing of, okay, what is that charge because I, this is not my first rodeo on a town committee. All right, let's see. You're doing good. Yeah. That is awesome. This letter is awesome. I have a question. Do we need to put white supremacy? We don't need to put that. It's understood. Where were you? Because the vision in sessions that Dr. Barbara talked about is to heal to begin the process of healing for the whole community. Each subgroup might have, you know, yeah. Well, well, I think with that one, though, but again, can we just finish like my stuff and then because that's, that's practice. Yes. Okay. I agree to agree. Because I'm almost done. I'm almost done. So with mine, the only last thing was, was the, was that in the bottom. So we need, we just need to come up with obviously this was just something off the top of my head, but I think we need to discuss it. This is going to be our last thing, you know, like we expect the time to respond to our questions demands to this letter, or whatever other strong. So that's all that was just a placeholder. So we wouldn't forget to really put a final kind of strong statement. Yeah, it will be, it will be Town Council is the, is our goal. That's our focus. We will see City Town Manager that our focus is on Town Council because they are the legislative body, you know, they have the power to make things move. Right. And I really, you know, really suggest that the chair be contacted by our two coaches to put this on their agenda next time. I don't care what I did have too many. I, I did items. I think this is more important than anything they already plan to discuss that day. Indeed, Miss Pat, I think we have it there if if our group is in agreement that we, we request we demand that we be placed on the Town Council agenda the next Town Council to discuss this, you know, however we want to state it. Remember that what we used to do at CSWG, like we actually will come up with dates. Okay, yeah. You know, but the only thing is that the reason why I had put a town and, and, and, but it is the town council so I hear that but the only thing is so I don't want them also to have no inaction or not do anything between now and the next meeting to you see what I'm saying. Yes. So, because remember we're demanding action now so if you kind of say, oh yeah we want to hear from you until the meeting then that gives them an out until the meeting. Yes, you're right, right. So we, we would, we would ask that you respond to us within the week, and we be placed on the next town council meeting agenda. Exactly. And be placed on the, yeah, so that it's an end vote. We're not the date. Yeah, we know. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what the date is. So can someone come up with the date for next week. This time. When are we when it all depends like I think whoever ends up like sending this out or whatever we have to agree. Yeah, we have to agree on the edits tonight. So okay. Night prove it or whatever it goes out tomorrow is what I'm thinking. What do you think Allegra, I like that idea I think I'd like to keep the kind of cycle of things going on and I guess that brings the question will we also send it to the local media sources as kind of an editorial editorial letter. I know that, you know, other letters have been published in different local media sources so I think that would be something to consider as well. I'm just looking at next week. So Monday is the first of August so that makes it kind of easy to figure out dates. They need to respond. Let's say if it goes out tomorrow, they need to respond by the fifth. Right. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, respond to what? To our letter. If we give them a week. Did you, the talk as a chair will say, thank you will receive your, your, your, your statement, your letter. That's it. No, no, but we're saying we need to, we want you to respond to our questions and demands. We have to be very clear. So, okay, we asked that the town council respond to this letter by August fifth, and that the CSS JC be placed on the next council. I would say like to confirm that we will be placing the agenda will be more. Okay. I agree with what people are saying. Yeah. I will, I agree with what Alec grass said, we should definitely send this to the media because you have done it in the past. So we should send it to local media. If they're not on this zoom meeting. I'll send it to them into the media because we know if we don't send it to them to the media and nothing will happen. Exactly. Oh yeah. Okay, so, I mean, probably that sentence construction could be a bit smoother, but that. Okay, this is the sentence here. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. One week from today sounds reasonable. Yeah. Okay, so for now, that is the ending to that now are we ready to look at Dr fricke's edits. Before you do that. I think the co chairs need to address there's an attendee that has a hand raised. Although, I think the time for public comment. Yeah, so we'll have another, we will have another public comment at the end. Okay. So we'll open it up then. Okay, perfect. Yeah, thank you for letting us know. Okay. Here we are. So, Dr fricke. You want to go through your suggestions here. Excuse me, I just made a few couple I think, and I moved the youth to the second paragraph, and I think I would have moved the request for an investigation maybe to the third so that's one of the recommendations I think Miss Pat had a question. Further down. Okay, so can we go through the top here first. Okay. What I'll do, once you explain your your moves here, then folks can offer comments so we can find out if there's an agreement for this change. The text I simply moved it. Yeah, so if we want to edit that or move it somewhere else that's going to be up to the committee as a whole. Sure. So what do we think group. I like it actually it shows the priority with place is supporting the youth says, you know, it comes out very powerfully. I like that. Okay. I agree and I think it flows nicely from the last statement of the first paragraph into kind of directly addressing the youth. Sure you did not deserve such. Okay, anyone else. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Okay. All right, so I'm going to approve that. And then we go further down. And here, Dr. Freike. I believe Ms. Pats had a question about this. Oh, yeah. Okay. People might be reading like it's abundantly clear. So we're back. What is it. Second paragraph paragraph. One, two, three, four, five. Okay. Okay, from our review of the incident. So I, my question is, what is the reason for taking it out. Just a question. Yeah. Oh yeah, so we haven't reviewed the incident. We watch. Yes, but it says from our review. So that is speaking for the entire group. I don't know if that makes sense. We watched the video last week. But we didn't review the incident because like I've mentioned. I believe the incident is larger than the video and I actually believe that if we were to pull across the entire committee what we think is significant in the video is going to be different for all of us. So we have to eliminate that ambiguity. That's why I removed our review. Yeah, but we can, we can change it to from watching the video then. Thank you. Yeah. From watching the video. Yeah, from watching the video it is abundant. Yeah, I'm comfortable with that. Yeah. Okay. So that because, you know, to have a reference of this paragraph, it was kind of off without it. Yeah. Are you comfortable with that wording? Are you okay with that? Technically, yes, it is a very good use of the passive voice. I'm so I'm fine. I'm fine with it. Yes, and it is not passive when you say it is fundamentally clear but we're that's academics let's just, I think some passivity here because it does our letters strong already so. Yeah, so let's strategically use the passive voice. Philip, what do you think? I agree. I'm okay with from watching the video. Okay, cool. So let's go ahead and have that. And we don't need to comments. Okay. Next. Okay, so here. Where did this edit come from. Who did this edit is what I'm trying to understand is this fricke is this your edit, engage the community and visioning. I actually like that up to sessions stop, delete the rest. Okay, hold up. I'm trying to help you. Ms. Pat, one moment. So, who did the edit engage the community and visioning sessions to help you from what supremacy. The looks of the Google document it looks like you were the one to edit. Yeah, but well it says normal text but I don't remember writing that I think you know so remove from white supremacy that's the only thing I have problem with. Okay. So here. What do you have problem with that. Because from what I understood. Yes, some folks, you know, you know, as you know we're struggling with racism in this town that are other people who are struggling with other issues. Like racism. So my understanding with Dr Barbara love, it's like each group may have issues that they're, you know, struggling with in this town how can we all, you know, heal from that is my understanding of what she's trying to explain to us. So it's not just only racism. No, I got you. The major part is the main thing. Yeah, what supremacy affects socio economic class ableism like that. Yeah, but it's not an argument I understand that it might not sound very inclusive. What was I going to say and oh the nine youth that were involved. I think most of them were identified as color but there are two that identify as white, three, three that were. So, you know, in relation to how it intersects with this incident and coming on this incident. You know, again, we can have a theoretical conversation about white supremacy is, you know, affects every aspect of our nation but you're saying Miss Pat that the language might marginalize folks that we want to bring in as allies. That's right. Yeah. Okay. Like people with agenda, you know, agenda, gender. For example, I prosecuted, you know, let's face it. Okay, so yeah. I'm like, I'm blanking out right now. I hear your point. Yeah, I know I do remember it but I'm trying to think like what exactly we put in our report maybe we could just kind of use some of the language from there because because the thing is, is that if we take that out to we have to come up with something and then I was going to say right now it just says engage the community envisioning sessions to help you. So, to help you out. That's it. Yeah. Yeah, from inequity or something like that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it covers everything. I like that. Yeah. Yeah, something like that because it was general. Yeah. Yes. What do people think I like that. The freeze inequities. Yeah, definitely more inclusive. Exactly. Thank you. From systemic inequities from structural inequities. Yeah. There you go. The stomach inequities. Yeah. Which are different, but we could structural inequities. Okay. Someone has their hand up. I can't see it. Yes. Yeah, perhaps this is the wrong time to save a site. I'm still unclear about the importance of this paragraph that is in where we reaffirm the following CSWG recommendations. I'm unclear on why we need to list them out. Rather than point people to where they can find those recommendations because I believe if this is a method in sense to the town council, then they are aware of whether that information is, and we can speak to them as we're hoping to do to remind them of what those recommendations are. Yeah, so I don't know about that paragraph. Perhaps someone penalized me. No, I really, I understand where you're coming from and appreciate that critique. My concern is that they don't know where this stuff comes from. And if we are also plan, excuse me, planning on sharing this out to media as, as often happens and strategically, many groups do you send it to the town council and then you also send it to the media, because it adds pressure for them to pay attention, of course, that's, you know, how it works. That it's a possibility. In my opinion, when Allegra and I were, we're, you know, crafting this that they would have to be listed out. Point well taken that if we were to shorten it, we could indeed put these into the regular paragraphs and even hyperlink it or, you know, offer a reminder because this is basically repeating a lot of things that are in the upper paragraphs. So it's up to us. If I may jump in very quickly. I think to remind all of us again, the SWG has pushed to get all this project funded they didn't buy cook folks we don't have any space spaces in this town that we call our own. It's very difficult for us to navigate spaces in this town so this is like a preamble. To the upcoming budget season like see our kids have no place to go they hang out in the parking lot. We have no space for our kids to be so I think it's emphasizing what we really really need in this town we need by cultural center and so on and so forth I think it's very important that we list them. So Miss Pat, if we would list them and then go on to Deb, if we would list them because again I was shooting down the middle in terms of language and that's why it's important we do this as a committee. So in saying reaffirmed the following CSWG recommendations indeed that's what we're doing. Yeah, if we are to be stronger in the language and demand establishing these and funding these funding. Yeah, so we should maybe have stronger language that precedes this listing. But that's what Deb has to say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, for me, no I'm in agreement with Miss Pat, I mean we need to we need to list this, you know, just because, you know, like in terms of the vacancy right we already know that they're filling positions and things that are posting vacancies so it's important to kind of restate that because what we have recommended is being ignored and obviously what you know seven Jen had talked about what we had talked about. And then again like you know the visioning I mean it's it's it's incredibly important for us to restate these things I understand and I looked at it to and I was like oh the letter is long and stuff like that but it's important it's and and we can't rely on people going and going to go look through remember our report was long because it had to be right because we have to provide all these data as to why we were recommending it. So no one's going to have time for that so we need to listen what the priorities are right on this letter. Okay, so do you think proceeding the list. Instead of we reaffirmed the following CSWG recommendations. We reaffirm and demand. Funding. What what how yeah how should that be worded. I mean the only thing is so with the funding is that remember, some of them were just asking them not to not to hire. Yeah, true. Yeah, that's true. So then it won't apply, you know, in terms of we could add something else like especially in the bottom again because I think, you know we had talked about the Apple funding or whatever so it seems like funding is something important to us, maybe add in at the end right. Yeah, remind them of funding. Okay, exactly. Alrighty, any other comments yes Phillip. I think going back to Dr for a case point and the point of the listing I think that we're not a part of the CSWG and so it does really put into, I guess the layout of this statement and that's going back to my point earlier as to was this the statement that we're just going to make kind of to the public was it a statement that we're going to go into the town council, and in my review of it, if it is going to the town council then it's not as long of a statement as I think and I think that the bullet points are in point important to follow up on what the CSWG has laid out in the ground work for us right and then at the end of it when we ask for a response, we're kind of giving them the points to respond to. They're the points that we are looking for in response to and whatever it is the town council perhaps so that way they almost have kind of a direction and narrative to go off of. Okay, and I want to make sure understood what you're saying Phillip so you're saying that demands are part of this bullet list so that's what the town council is going to respond to so it should stay. Okay. Okay, all right, that's what I want to make sure it was an affirmative those going to stay okay thank you. Allegra. I just also wanted to say, I think it should stay and I think part of the reason is it is to the town council and the part of the work of the CSWG was done in May, and then there was an election in November so we have actually what six new counselors since WG started their work. So just to have people who might not have been following their work on the council because they weren't council members at the time be brought up in kind of shorthand would, I think be important. Okay, so it helps to inform new council members of these are the demands of the CSWG and to remind them this is what we want you all to respond to. Okay. In addition to that, I think also that I remember in one of the town council meetings where a counselor had actually and for the CSWG to keep bringing up all this recommendation. You know, publicly so that it doesn't get forgotten that the more we bring it up the better. I remember somebody making that comment. Okay. So, you know, when you don't hear about something people forget it, you know, we're bombarded with so much information now that, you know, our retention memory is very, very short. Sure. So the more they read it, even if it's repetitive, it's okay. Okay, good. Did these hyperlinks, by the way, help us remind us of where this stuff exists within these documents also. That was the point of trying to create it. So, all right. Yes. So, then I put in from our conversation earlier, once an investigation occurs, we want the report immediately released to the public. Yes. Okay, we agree to that. All right. This is where the that paragraph was moved. So we're going to approve that. We're getting there. Hold on. Did you want to put the funding. And it just also it looks like the last sentence of the paragraph that got moved did not get moved with the rest of the paragraph. Oh, so was it here we hope together we can build. Well, so that would go to the end of paragraph two, unless we're cutting it. But I wanted to stay. I don't think that would be necessary because we can move it to some other place where we speak about the center. Because paragraph two, if I'm correct, doesn't doesn't mention a center. Yes, so if we could move it to. So we have. Ah, so we should remind them here in this bulleted list right about the center. It should have been in there. Yeah, it's there as recommended by CSWG created by Park Youth Empowerment Center under it's the 123456. Okay, so as recommended by CSWG created by. Okay. Yeah, so we, we have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So when, but how I put it, I was addressing the youth. So now here, do we want to address our town council members. We can do that like that. We can build a future deserving of the gifts of the youth. I mean, I kind of feel like it made more sense when it was addressing the youth because I, and I guess just since I wrote that sentence I guess my thought putting it will know I'm just like my thought putting it where it was was that I would mention different things in within the paragraph and then they would all be reiterated down at the bottom. So I'm for moving it back up and then it's reiterated at the bottom, because I thought your paragraph was lovely but what do we decide let's try it at the top and see what happens. How do we like that. You can always move it elsewhere or rephrase it. Okay, so here. You can find healing through your family friends and community. We hope together we can build a future deserving of all your gifts time and energy through the youth empowerment center. What we should probably say through the building maybe of the youth empowerment center. Any thoughts. I'm sorry, what was the other one again. Yeah, so what it is. Yeah, what it is, is Dr. free came move the, the paragraph on the youth up front. So it's the second part there. And then this sentence was missing. It was part of this original paragraph. Okay, any other thoughts. Does it work there. And energy through the building of a youth empowerment center. The only thing is is that I don't know if it flows as well. Now if you put that there and then you say the incident captioned this video clearly shows blah blah blah you know I mean agreed. We can, we can get rid of it all together. I didn't like the Senate, but I like the sentence I like the sentence. Yeah, it doesn't flow now because it doesn't attach to the third paragraph. Allegra, do you, since you wrote that paragraph do you have an idea and how to create a better transition to that third paragraph. Um, I don't. I'm. What we could do, what we could do is take this and put it here. And then put that there. And what that does that sentence we recognize that incidents like this are traumatizing and can impact your world, your worldview and your view of our community. And we hope you will find healing through your family, friends, and this community, a little repetitious but then the third paragraph the incident capture in this video. So that might be a way it's not a beautiful transition, but it coheres a little bit more to the incident capture in this video. Any other thoughts. So this one, let me just go away. Oh, so I'm looking at the time is 745. Yes, but we need to be wrapping this up. So I mean, you know, I'm not going to quibble on one sentence. Yeah, but you know, I almost kind of think it does go at the end because the youth empowerment center was a recommendation from the community safety working group. So maybe if we say something like the CSWG recommended youth empowerment center. I don't know if that would tie it in better. So here, move it to the last sentence in this paragraph. I think it's already in the, in the recommendation section so it's there right, right. And I am not wedded to having that like I think if it makes sense to just get rid of that sentence. Well, I think, I think it's good like where where the meat has it right now, though, because we're already kind of, you know, that's something that we've been battling for so mentioning it early on just kind of cemented that for this is a done deal like this should happen, you know, and then us just kind of reminding folks that that's still a work in progress later. You know, it isn't a bad thing. I think it works there if we're going to if we're going to move it around and play with it I think it works there, because it's kind of like this is a shout out to the youth right now. And in a way, even though we're sending this to the town council. We want them to know, you know, again, this is a public document it's a shout out to our youth. We revisit the issue of the Youth Empowerment Center and our list of demands that goes back to the town council. So, it's it's up to you all. It's not what it is. What is the title of our statement. Did we come up with this title. No. So if anyone wants to think about that. That would be great. Let me see if there's any other edits real quick. Oh, yes, please, because I can't see it right now. I hope we will visit the statements or the point regarding the compensation fund. I think that should be something we think about a bit more. I have reflections so I'm not sure it deserves to be. Oh, I don't know if it should be in this statement as it is it's something that as it has been put out now and we can begin to think about it and see how we could make that come to be if it's something that we want but I'm uncomfortable with having it right now in the statement as it is. Okay. And so why, why is that so. What's the discomfort I guess I'm looking beyond this incident to other incidents then it becomes a question of who is victim how is this going to be funded who what does over civilians mean how do we determine impact. There are other things that we can think about and be clearer and then we can bring this up it doesn't. It doesn't have to be something that we bring up now, but as Miss Pat has put that out it's something that we can think about and look at ways to make facts come into being. I hear you, as far as some of the things that you mentioned over surveillance we actually define that in seven gen and the CSWG so we know what over surveillance looks like and what it does to, or how it impacts, particularly communities of color, and other marginalized communities in terms of how we would determine because what what you're saying is that well guidelines would have to be established right. So that is our in a way, the CSS JC and the resident oversight board, its role. So, yes, it's something we could look at down the road, but does that mean we shouldn't demand or ask for that as a means of, you know, as Deb have pointed out, you know I'm thinking, you know these young particularly if they are low income. This this is traumatizing I know firsthand how these incidences with our youth and the police are traumatizing because my group went out and interview, not only adults, but young people. And I made sure that I had a licensed psychologist available, because I didn't want to trigger for these young people, like have them relive these traumatizing incidences. So, you know, I pay for that. As my company we paid for that. And can these young people and their families. Can they pay for that type of care. So, I think that brings up the excellent point of how, perhaps, a fund could be used for these young people and their families. How do we demand for that how do we ask for that. That's something I would like to see. Now, again, it's up to the committee. I don't think we have to have everything definite in what we're asking for again. That's, we are, we are looking now to correct these economic, social, and legal inequalities that exist within our community, that's our job. To point those out to figure out, at least suggest pathways in which to correct them. The town, then has to take some responsibility and accountability and figure out how do we get there. So I don't think it has to all be solved is what I'm saying for us to suggest and demand action. But that's me. I'm sorry, Miss Pat, just give me a moment. I agree. But what I am suggesting is, if we study this so we look at this a bit more, then we can have something more concrete to request. So it is what I get from you and I think I, if I'm hearing you correctly is, we don't have to have it set in stone that I agree. But I still think we, it would be better to have something clearer and definite that we could stand behind. This isn't a request that we are making out of nowhere. They have been these kind of funds, these funds have exists in other places, how are they created how do they work that's something that we can look at so that we can be more confident when we ask for it. Okay, thank you for sharing that. Any other comments related to compensation fund. Yeah, I have my, my hands raised. Yeah, I'm sorry I can't I shrunk it so I could see the edit so let me expand it sorry. I will continue to bring my business heart to this meeting, and I have done in different groups. We should not share a way about about compensation because if this had happened to white kids. So group that are that are being powerful we wouldn't be having this discussion. Okay, so I'm very comfortable putting this here. I do agree. We may not come up with, you know, details of how this is going to happen that I am very, you know, I feel very strongly that we need to put it here. I'll give a very quick analogy is not the greatest one in special education, when parents feel that they're not getting the services that they need. And there's some of the courage to take the school system to hearing, and if the family. But when they are made to compensate the student that they didn't get the right services that they want. To me, it's not that in compensation but it's a form of compensation. And you know who benefit most from compensation for from special education services white families, more than BIPOC families. Okay, so we should not be, we should not shy away this is a capitalist society is a local society, if somebody him, harm you. And you were right, you need to be compensated, I'll keep pushing this in, in, in, in our, in our committee. So I have no problem at all. Putting that in our statement, thank you. Thank you, Miss Pat. Yeah, I mean for me, I mean I already said what I had to say, and I think I agree with, with what you know obviously miss Pat and Dimitri you've said which is, you know, we don't have to have everything written in stone, and we can introduce that I think it's a very part of what we're talking about because again, we're trying to deal with the inaction of the town, right so we're actually making, you know, we're actually making some recommendations here that solid, which really the town should have done and they didn't. You know what I'm saying so we're trying to do what the town hasn't done and I think it's important for the community to hear that we're coming out with ideas that are actually going to be helpful to them. You know I'm saying we don't have to have it all now, you don't have to have it all you know at this point, and we can do a lot of the kind of follow up, you know afterwards but for us to put it there and already puts it in the town comforts in mind for them to know that hey, we are thinking about this we're thinking about the community, everyone in the community because like, like what Miss Pat said, this is not only going to help BIPOC families is going to help all families. At the end of the day when you have a victim, you know, compensation funds so you know I don't have to belabor this but maybe we, I don't know whether to vote or something like that, I don't know how we're going to get past it. Okay well let's hear what Phillip has to say thank you Deb. I just want to add that I am comfortable with the suggestion or recommendation of adding a victim compensation. I do want us to realize and reflect on systematic organizations that to then come up with what we're asking. And without a recommendation from this group that is clear of what we want. We allow space for what the PD wants and what the PD will come up for. And so therefore if we had something clear like Dr freke is suggesting that was a recommendation to basically hold accountable to say, Hey, we made that recommendation just like CSW, CSWG made up then we can reflect back and go back to our recommendation as opposed to we made a suggestion about a victim compensation fund and they went off and made one with something that we don't agree with. Okay. So, I'm going to agree that more research is needed, but whether you know it's like well, is that our role. Or is our role to suggest. How do we achieve equity. So, I think, maybe we do need to put it to a vote because, like you say Phillip there you know if it's not filled in totally. The PD, maybe the town will come up with something else dismiss it all together, but we're when we run the risk of that anyway, in everything that we're listing, and that is why I have to come out of the charge what's our charge what you charge this with this is this is what we're doing this is what we're fulfilling. This is what CSWG, you know, outline as our charge. So, if we attach it to part of our charge. There might be a way in which we could present it as such, but again, we want a town council, you know, be on the town council agenda, where we're going to discuss it anyway. At the same time, we could have research on examples from other communities because there are, as you mentioned, Dr franke, there are plenty of examples of victim compensation funds that are set up. We, in the 21st century, do not have that so we are again suggesting this is a road this is a path to equity. Yes, Allegra. And if going back to our charge it. We could recommend either under the resident oversight border within the, you know, administered by the DEI department. Or we could just say, you know, further research would be needed to this as to the specifics of how it would operate. But I do. I mean, I think having as a recommendation again lays the groundwork for further research and and a more developed idea down the road. There's one word, good point. There's one word that we haven't mentioned in all our discussion and and and that is justice. What does justice look like for people is different for different people for some people is financial compensation for some people just apology might be enough for some people, you know, I can go on and on and on. So we need to, we need to have different options for people. So we need to keep this, I feel very strongly about it and we should take a vote. Do we have to move to vote. So we have to make a motion and so you have to kind of phrase the motion that speaks to keeping a compensate the line about a compensation fund within this response. So Miss Pat, did you want to make the motion. Not really, but I was seconded. Okay, can you help raise the motion. I, I move or I move to make a motion I don't even know. I don't know any of the Robert's rules. I don't even know what the hell Robert is but anyway, the embers that that to keep the embers police department should create a victim compensation fund for people impacted by police harassment and over surveillance in our letter to the town council. I second that. Okay. Unless you in a second miss Pat, it don't matter. Okay, so Allegra you want to move to a vote. Do I just say I moved to a vote. Well, I guess we have. deliberation. Yeah, further discussion about the motion that's on the table. None. Oh, sorry. I think this had mentioned that we could have a sentence that speaks to for the research being done. Okay, then we have to make another motion. But this is a thing I think I think if we put that in there and we can sit and we can sit and we can sit. If you say, you know, further research is going to be done so then they're going to be like so why did why are you making this right now. If further research come back to me once you have your research. Yeah, I got that right. And so this is the discussion deliberation the other thing, Dr franke and you know again, you can vote no yes whatever. So what I think is that, like I said, it puts the onus on the CSS JC, and, you know, we already have a large piece of the charge for this town. So, are we then hired as consultants to then do that research, because hire my company if that's the case. That's not that shouldn't be our fully our role is what I'm suggesting that that is something that DEI and crests, and people who are on paid salaries should be researching. Yeah, and they can research it and bring it to us in terms of so so it can address what you're saying Philip right. Bring it to us. So for us to then kind of approve it or not edit it or whatever, so that we can have control over it right when they're creating it. So that then we have more control so that it's not just something that the APD goes off and creates on their own, and then creates whatever they want. You know what I'm saying, we would have that control. I would hear that and I get that I would feel comfortable if we added that into the sentence that is laid out right now. Okay, that that I would be okay with that that you know whatever is proposed by the town council is approved by the CSS JC or is reviewed but I don't know how we want to put it, you know, we have to make another, another motion, or it can be to so we can vote on the motion as it stands now. Okay, and then someone makes another motion to add that sentence whatever we think is easier. Okay, yeah I guess let's vote on what we have now and then, if we want to add them, because there's already a motion do. Sorry, just making sure I have this correct. If we want to amend the statement to add something do we have to do the amendment to the motion with. Yeah, there were there would right now would be approved or disapproved based on the motion that someone mode motion to add in a sentence and then that would have to then be voted on again. Okay. We can call Robert. Quickly, or we can simply revise the motion. And see, again, if they're you go through the process of deliberation I mean we'll get this and it'll be, you know, not an issue. And then we vote. So if it's easier for us to simply revise restate the motion now that we've had deliberation, we could proceed and do that. So who wants to take a stab at. I know. So wait right now the motion on the floor is to approve the sentence as it stands in the document. Yes, and keep it in there. But we've had some helpful deliberation. Right. So the deliberation would have the, the motion amended. Before voting. Would someone like to put forward an amendment to. So what happens to the, to the motion that I made so. We didn't vote on it we deliberated and now we want to revise it. Okay, so we're not voting on the motion right. Okay, motioning to, so I make a motion to amend. The previous movement. Yes, yeah. To include an additional sentence. So we would say that the Amherst police department should create a victim compensation fund for people impacted by police harassment and over surveillance. And And, and we asked the DI department to provide how we want to put it provide research provide information. That we would approve. Yes. In the creation of this fund. Provide it from okay in the credit that's better than what I'm about to say yes to provide information in the creation of this fund of this fund. Something like that we probably have to like clean it up a little bit. Does that work. I'm just. I'm just saying, you know, knowing the town council the way they operate. I can almost think one or two people that will be like, well, they don't even know what they're talking about. They did not do anything. They would tear us apart with this. This will be so distracting that everything else that we wrote on the statement I know how some of the town councilors operate. Well, I like the first sentence. Okay. And then let's vote, because I'm going to put this down. That's that's what I'm trying to say. We are voting. Does anyone have anything else to say before we vote on the amendment to the original motion. So, part of the liberation, Miss Pat, I, I tend to agree with you, just a strategy that if we say the Amherst police department should create a victim compensation fund for people impacted by police and over surveillance period that they're going to have to deal with that statement. And when we meet and get on the agenda. Those are items that we could then explain. Yep. Even as volunteers, we might even research what other municipalities are doing. But like I said, I don't think that needs to happen for us to release the statement. Now, if folks feel better, safer, having that other part of the sentence. I vote yes to it to just as long as that first part of the sentence gets in there that we should create a victim compensation fund. However, it gets to the council. I want that statement to get to them. Now if we got to qualify it. Fine. We'll have an opportunity to discuss it. What about though, I mean, and again and now I'm changing things up but I'm trying to kind of like deal with what Philip was saying. The Amos police department should create why don't we say the town should create a victim compensation fund for people impacted by police harassment and over surveillance, because then that takes it out of the police creating it. But it's the town creating it to deal with police harassment. Well, their town employees. Because right now what we're saying is for them to create it and that's where the danger is right is like what is APD going to do, you know what I'm saying they're going to create some fun that's going to be crazy or what, you know, as opposed to, you know, as generalizing it a little bit more, and then saying, but still saying this this compensation is victim compensation fund needs to be done because of the impact of police harassment. Okay, quite well taken. I mean that that could be a way to deal with what Philip is saying, you know, I don't know. So Philip, since you brought it up. Yeah, that was my original thinking bed. Allegra made very good point why should it come from another fund why not the police themselves who are humming our community, why not come from their fun so either way either way that we go is fine with me. We can save funded by the police by the APD, but I don't know if we want them to create it. Yeah, you just screw it up. The amended amendment. So Philip what what do you feel about it saying the town. I feel comfortable about it saying the town. That was my concern was that the police to create something and not but I also still feel as if we still need to have it set somewhere that we want to be the one to review. Sad creation, whether that be from the town or police department or whoever. I don't want it just to be created and then us be like oh here we go here's what we created and this is what we're implementing based on your recommendation. I can guarantee you Philip that somebody from the town council will ask a question will have questions to ask about this I don't think we need to write everything down. If we're if our coaches are going to be making presentation, I can very much guarantee you that whatever they see spending money that will benefit marginalized people. That's where they will laser focus I don't my point I don't think we need to add too much word instead. I hear that and I don't think the concern is wording or our statement is already two pages plus so adding in that sentence is not a concern of mine and if it's going out to the public, then it allows the public to see that we are kind of holding the town council accountable, rather than having to then go to the town council meeting to hear our two co chairs hold them accountable. It puts it out in the newspaper, we're holding them accountable. Right. So I, this is just a suggestion, the town should create a victim's compensation fund guided by the principles of the CSWG and CSS JC or something stronger than guided perhaps shaped by CS as JC shaped by CSS JC. Okay, how about shape and approved by. Okay. Well, I guess we can say shaped by the CSWG and approved by the CSS JC because remember CSWG is okay. Okay. Sorry for my horrible typing. Great shape by CSWG and approved by there we go. The CSS. Okay, so what about that being the new statement. Well, we need to put the victim compensation fund, remember to what is it. Be impacted by police harassment. Oh yes, okay. Okay. Okay, so the town should create a victims compensation fund shaped by CSWG and approved by the CSS JC for people. CSWG principles and approved by the CSWG principles. I think we should take our CSWG completely. It will be very confusing. You think. Yeah. Right. Approved by the CSJT. Okay, let's do that. Yeah. Shape and approved by CSS JC. Okay, yeah. Okay, so here we go. The CSJC shaped and approved by the CSS JC for people impacted by police harassment over surveillance. Period. Yeah. Okay. What do you think about that Philip and Dr. Freke. That would get a yes for me. Okay. Dr. Freke. Give me a moment. Okay. So in the meantime, do you want me to motion again? Well, let's see, because maybe we won't need to vote if Dr. Freke agrees, then it's just part of the document. Oh, okay. Well, Dr. Freke is taking a moment. Can I just point out that I did some last minute. Yeah, so should I go way at the top and then. Yeah, I think I just focused on the bottom. Okay, I think there was just maybe a little bit of. I felt like there was some repetition just already are saying we reaffirm CSWG recommendations. So I just kind of took out wherever it said advised by CSWG. Yes, because I felt like we had already said they were the CSWG recommendations if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, I put that in so we can for particularly, you know, Philip and Dr. Freke. I know y'all are still, you know, reading up a lot of this literature because it was within the short amount of time CSWG and seven gen produced a lot of research and reports. So there is a lot there. Okay. I want to sit. What just happened, Allegra, what just happened with that edit. I think that I didn't put it far enough so it needed you if you just take it and start with the make the C big and erase the Okay. Erase the what's it called comma. So, oh, I see what you're saying. Let me go back here. There's something in my mind I wanted to just throw out here. We don't have to discuss it tonight, but do we really have to follow Robert's rule, because we did not do that with CSWG. I think that Robert's rules is colonial mentality. You know, this committee is supposed to be an empowerment committee, and I, I think we should discuss it in our next meeting. We can, there are other ways, you know, majority can approve stuff this Robert then we, you know, we abandoned it at with CSWG correct me if I if I'm wrong Deborah. I followed it, like, yeah. But I think we did do those some of the motions but I think you bring up a great point. Miss Pat, I'm like, yeah, that's why I'm like who the hell is Robert, you know, I'm just like, I'm like, we need to do things differently we can continue with this colonial mentality. I'm sorry, we're not doing this, you know something for us to think about next time. Okay. I know y'all were supposed to give me a title. Breca, have you come to a decision about I would rather not have it in there, but I would still. I think we still have to prove the entire document as it is. And so I would approve it despite my apprehension of that part that said, let's not forget that I think already upon had her hand up some time ago. Yeah, again, we are taking We are taking comments at the end, Dr. Freke so at the beginning, and then at the end, we will we'll have comments. Okay. Thank you. So, thank you. Yeah. No, Miss Pat, what was it. I applauded my fellow. It's nickname that we give to each other. Instead of saying Nigerian, we say, Niger. I say, yeah, my fellow Niger. Thank you. That's what I just said. We have to mix up our meeting people. I second that. Okay. All right. I have a motion that I can make and I don't know if people want to, but I'll make it. I would like to motion that our two co-chairs title this document. I don't know. I don't know if we need a title to the town council. Yeah, I think, yeah, it's a it's a letter about the July 5 incident. Yeah, I'm fine with that. Yeah, to the town council, Ray regarding the July 5 incident. Yeah, so we'll we'll do that if that's okay with everyone. So we don't have all we have to do now is simply if if Dr. Freke is okay, even with hesitation of including that part about compensation. We can approve the letter. As it stands. Or are there other edits to make. We want to hear from Ms. But I said Pam. I got you. I just want to make sure right now. Yeah. Okay. I think I, I motion to approve the letter. Okay. Is there a second. Okay. I will do a name roll call vote. Correct. Or do I have to ask for deliberation if it's a motion to approve? Yeah, because I need just clarification so that everyone is clear about it. So when we're saying we approve the letter, does that mean we're signing on to. Yes. Okay, so that's a good point. That's a good point of clarity. Yes. Is that what we're understanding as a committee, are we all signing on, are we just doing resident oversight resident oversight committee, the CSS JC without names, how are we, how do we want to send this with names. Yeah, with names. We always do with names. And is everyone okay with that. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Then the motion can proceed for a vote. Okay. Starting with. Miss Pat. Yes. Yes. And yes. Okay. Thank you. I'm Deborah. Yes. Freck. Yes. Phillip. Yes. D. Yes. So the motion to approve the letter and include our names in it passes. Yes. Zero, zero, zero. Absentions and zero absences. Am I supposed to be like, yeah, there's no, you know, no. So great. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We got through it and a dev. I would like to, you know, know more about how letters that the edits were sent in. Before hand. Pam, you're going to check on that. How we are able to do that. Within. You know, the, for, for meeting purposes, open meeting law. Again, we have a charge. So thank you all for, for contributing to this letter. Yes. So you want to continue Allegra with the meeting and. See, we have comments. We have. Where did the agenda go? I lost the agenda. Let me see. I'll take it out of letter mode. Okay. Okay. Here we go. Let's see what else. Okay. So any updates from the committee? Nope. Any upcoming agenda items or meeting schedules. Our next meeting was scheduled for August. 23rd, I believe it was. And I think we had talked about agenda items at. The previous meeting. Again, I will send out a reminder. We have a meeting schedule. We have a meeting schedule on the agenda in addition to what was already. I just had one right now. Yes. Our meeting. Our meeting procedure. Robert world. Yes. So get rid of it. Not like Robert. That's colonial. That's colonial mentality. We don't want that. Right. Thank you, Ms. Pat. I agree. And let's say. I think we did not reasonably anticipate. 48 hours before this meeting. No. Okay. Can we bring Dorothy in to. Give her comment. Hello, Dorothy. Hi. I just had a quick comment. I am. The or one of two. I just wanted to make a point that I don't know if it's still in the letter as you've drafted it. But. Asking for the town council to act in five days. Just to remind you that the town council is. Totally bound by open meeting law. And I'm constantly learning more about this. It means we're not allowed to talk about it. But I wanted to make a point for something that I don't know if it's still in the letter as you've drafted it. But. We're not allowed to talk about anything amongst ourselves. We can only discuss or take an action in a public open public meeting where the agenda has been announced. Two, two days in advance. So there's no way that the town council can take an action. Before the next meeting. And I just got it clarified today. We do not have a meeting on August 1st. We have a meeting on August 15th. We have a meeting on August 15th. And we have a meeting on August 15th. Because the president was trying to give the town staff. Some vacation time, because we can't have a meeting without involving a lot of town staff. To do us with the zoom meeting. So our next meeting is August 15th. And so town council members will not be able. We can't even do it by serial email. They will call us on it. And it's, you know, we can't have a meeting on August 15th. So I just wanted to point that out to you. And I would really appreciate if I could get copies of your agenda and minutes because I, I love coming to your meeting and I love the way you run it. I'm just supposed to make some kind of brief report. Not with opinion, just report. To the town council when they call for liaison reports. So that's what my status is here. Any questions I can, I can try to answer them. Councilor Pam, I did mention to miss Meisten in our previous meeting to invite you and Councilor Pat, the Angeles, because I watched the town council meeting when two of you were voted to be liaison to this committee. And I'm sorry that you guys have not received any zoom link to join us. I thank you tonight for coming on. Well, they did, they, she did tell me when the meetings were going to be held. So she did respond. And so she, she did something, but. Because I reached out to miss Meisten. Yes. So invite both of you. Okay. Thank you very much. Yeah. So Dorothy, thank you for, for being the liaison. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. I know it's, I know it's extra time that you all have to extend this town council members. And thank you for that qualification. So that is something that we will maybe need to revise. And looking at the dates. If that's August 15th, which is a Monday, of course, it would be included in your packet. By maybe August 16th, which is Tuesday. If there is some discussion as we want to be on the agenda. For that August 15th meeting. Of this letter. It would be included in your packets by that time. So the whole council would have read it. Right. And the agenda is set by the president. Of course, of course. So the, we as co-chairs Allegra and I will certainly do that when we send the letter. But then our deadline for a response. I would say would have to be on that Tuesday. At the very least, because ideally. The town council would discuss the letter during that meeting. And we would have an opportunity, of course, to present. If we're on the agenda. Okay. I hope so. Sounds good. Okay. So that is something we need to look at as a group before we sign off. Any questions for our liaison, Dorothy Pam. Okay. Thank you, Dorothy. Thank you. Okay. So can I. Just suggest that we change the date of the. Of the response request from the fifth to the 16th. Yes. And then everything else in the letter will stay the same as we already approved. Yeah. Yeah. So we're good with that. Yep. Okay. Yeah. That's why I said, remove Robert rules. You guys are stuck with, you guys are stuck with African women. I thank goodness. Thank goodness. The African way. All right. So. I, if there's no other comments or questions. I think. I think we should just open up to comment because someone did just join like within the last 10 minutes. Okay. We do have a new attendee in the audience. I don't know if they have any comments to share with the committee. If so, please raise your hand. And then we will bring you in. And if not. That's also okay. Thanks for watching and listening. Oh, I meant to also say, Dorothy, I just wanted to say, I'm sorry. This is recorded and the recordings are shared. And uploaded at Amherst media. Of course, Amherst media is still trying to solve their cable casting issue and then move to their temporary place. But these are all going to be. Shared because they are recorded. So maybe you could use that in terms of minutes as well. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. The attendee section has any comments. I move for us to adjourn. Second. Okay. Call for a vote. Yay. Okay. All right. Thank you. I have to officially close the meeting. We're done. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.