 For those of you who don't know me or the ENA, my name is Randolph. I'm Director of Innovation at the Energy Networks Association, and we represent the gas and electricity networks in the UK and Ireland. So we effectively represent the water pipes. Just in terms of housekeeping, if you can stay on mute to avoid all background noise, that would be greatly appreciated. There will be a Q&A session later. So please make sure that you answer or ask all your questions in the chat box on Webex in the bottom right-hand corner. And also, before anyone else asks, we will be sharing the slides and the recording of the session with all participants. Okay, that sounds a bit better. So just in terms of the agenda, if we could go back just back to the agenda for a second. So first of all, we're going to have a keynote speech from Chi Omwara, who's the MP for Newcastle, Pontine Central, and who we are delighted to have here today. I'm then going to give a short overview of our Open Networks project. And then I'm going to be handing the floor to Laura Sands, who's CEO of Challenging Ideas, who will first give us an overview of the recosting energy project that she's been leading, followed by a panel session with three key players in the residential flexibility space. So this is where we'll then answer your questions and again encourage you to ask those questions in the chat box throughout the initial presentation. So in terms of our keynote address today, we're going to hear from Chi Omwara. As I said, she's currently Shadow Science Research and Digital Minister. Chi has a key interest in energy, having been on a range of energy, technology, and innovation focus committees, and also serving as the former Shadow Energy Minister. More importantly, from an E&A perspective, and certainly from my own personal perspective, Chi is a fellow electrical engineer, which is fantastic and really aligns well to what we'll be talking about today. So it's great to have you here today, Chi. And without further ado, we'll hand over the virtual mic to you now. Thank you so much. And thanks so much for inviting me to speak today. I'm certainly very passionate about... ...the content and everything being shared with SDI. I'll just have to start. Probably everybody else has been muted as well. It's great to be here making this keynote speech on a topic that is of such huge importance for our country and our planet. And I'd like to thank the Energy Network Associations for inviting me to speak today alongside the other fantastic speakers and panellists. I just want to start, and particularly on the eve of the International Day for Women and Girls in STEM, that the challenge of net zero for our economy and specifically for our energy networks is something that inspires me. But more importantly, it inspires the next generation of engineers. When I listen to young people talking about the climate change challenge and how they want to be part of addressing it, that is what can help. We can help transform our country's climate change contribution. It can also help transform the diversity of our engineering sector as well. Though we can't wait for the next generation of engineers to be addressing this challenge. Over the last 40 years, we've learned so much about the process of climate change. Warnings from the IPCC and even bodies like the IMF are that much more needs to be done, much faster if we are to keep below two degrees warming by 2050. The next 10 years are absolutely crucial for meeting our climate global temperature targets. Across the world, millions of people already suffering from the effects of climate changes, lake shrinks, rivers flood, farmland turned to desert, and that is creating conflict in many regions, areas of the world. As always, it is the port and the most marginalised and the most disadvantaged and supermote. We can't allow the future to be something that only works for those with the money to move to higher ground. There's an issue of social justice as well as a technical issue. We understand, I think, increasingly, and I think the change of a president in the U.S. has increased the global level of understanding, and we're increasingly aware of what will happen if we don't act. So it is time for real change and central to that change. What we know here is changing how we consume energy and the sources we get our energy from. And as I'm sure everyone here knows, the energy sector is a long way to go before this carbon neutral. Currently 73% of global greenhouse gas emissions are countered as coming from energy. And so if we have to tackle climate change, we must learn and encourage the gleaning of our energy supplies. This was published by the Transition Pathway Initiative has found that the sector has been slow in implementing operational and strategic carbon management practices. Since 1965, all the top 20 greenhouse gas contributing companies are energy firms, which between them responsible for pumping almost 500 billion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere, and only 18% of global energy companies have committed to the below two degrees target. And that is our oil and gas firms. The good news is that progress is being made. The energy supply sector was the largest contributor to the decrease in the carbon dioxide emissions between 2018 and 2019 and projects such as the zero carbon Humber project demonstrate positive steps. There's a lot more to be done. And I believe that UK can be a world leader in the green economy and inspiration to nations across the world. We led the first carbon based industrial revolution with the home of it. We can still lead the leading nation in this in the green industrial revolution, but it does require political action. We did once lead the world in developing in setting out our carbon targets and developing the technologies to support them. But I think we've fallen behind over the last decade of conservative red government and we've had a lot of promises on green investment. But unfortunately, there is a gap between the rhetoric and the reality and we are viewing even further off track to meet our legal binding net zero targets. And I want to go through all the figures and all the different programs, which there are, but the factors that we are not having the step change that we need to see. And we don't have a strategy to achieve that. The shadow business secretary has pointed out that the current funds do not meet the scale of what is needed. And whilst we have local authorities, such as Newcastle City Council, which have very progressive plans to reach net zero by, for example, by 2030 just 20 years earlier than the government plan. So, you know, energy accounts for 64% of all Newcastle's emissions and that chart that they cannot achieve that on their on their own. We need to power both the powers and resources from from Westminster, but we also need change in the industry in the sector. And I think it's important now is talk we're having this on zoom in the middle of a pandemic. The building back greener is an important part of building back better. Hopefully we're moving into the building back phase of this pandemic crisis. And we need to be targeting investment. And you can't go back to business as usual miss me talking to investment and support in a way that helps address the climate emergency and put green energy solutions at the heart of the economy. And I can't emphasize another my view that green transformation is a huge economic opportunity for for our country. I first started talking about the green industries and in 2010 is about fortnight after I've been elected to parliament and over the now more than ever we have the opportunity to I think we have we're getting the political world to introduce a massive mobilization of finance and infrastructure towards decarbonization, leading to rebuilding right economy, greening of production and the creation of new jobs in high skill high work, high productivity in industries again this is an opportunity for us to build a high skill economy and workforce and not and not a low low wage economy is investment in green energy is investment in jobs on the growing global market and low carbon products means the UK is well placed to become a world leader in green energy with us UK workers powering the green industry revolution and the scale scale means that there should be no shortage of working in the task of greening the economy, whether that means insulating houses or putting on solar solar panel technicians, but we do need to have a forward direction set from government so that our scales agencies our businesses know that that work is there and it is going to be there for some time to come. And just now I tried to make a habit of introducing engineering debates into parliament I was the first MP to talk about the internet of things. And I last year I held a debate I called the bait on lithium batteries, which is a bit of a hobby horse of mine for one of the areas that I studied at university. And I think, you know, we said, we've now got an ambition to end internal combustion and well engines and hyper cars will no longer be able to sold in the UK 14 years from now. So that's it's a challenge. So so much right. It's a challenge but it's also an opportunity for the UK automotive sector as transport makes up 26% of emissions. And it's, and I think we would look at, particularly when you look at what the energy grid, the electricity grid needs to support needs to provide electrical vehicles are both a challenge in terms of what they will consume. So it's an opportunity in that it means that every house every car in the house will have a huge battery on its doorstep, literally. But as part of that we need to put in place the infrastructure to support and recycle lithium batteries on an industrial scale and again, I'm concerned to see that that. We've now got the recycling facilities in the in the in the UK. Though that's something that I've been calling for. So to close I think I've tried to give a mix of the, the opportunities and the technical and political challenges. We, I believe they will go partly because we can harness the opportunities of decarbonizing our energy network, but we do need the political will to take the right decisions now. So we need an economic recovery which focuses on confronting the combined challenges of unemployment and the climate crisis stimulating jobs and growth in every part of the UK. The government bringing forward 30 pounds and plan capital investment is what we've called for as part of a rapid stimulus package to support up to 400,000 new clean jobs, then accelerating investment in such projects as energy efficiency, offshore wind, electric vehicle charging networks. Now that is having an army, a zero carbon army of apprentices and workers rising to the challenge. So our vision of a country's future is one where smart sustainable growth is harness to improve the lives and wellbeing of everyone. Economic growth is not and should not be an end in itself. What matters is how that growth is generated and how the rewards are shared. Decarbonizing our energy sector is one of the great challenges of our time with the ideas and the solutions and the energy of the sector, you know, supported by the political will. We can rise to the challenge and deliver a covert recovery with green energy at its heart. Thank you. Thank you very much, Chi. And here, here, I think a lot of us on the call fully agree with what you said, I think the UK is definitely very well placed to become a leader in this space. We in a with a lot of other countries and interact with a lot of them and they're all looking to the UK for leadership and guidance. And just to echo what Paul has said in the chat it's absolutely fantastic as well to hear an electrical engineer in parliament who clearly gets this so thank you once again and keep up the fantastic work. So we're going to move to a very short introduction to our open networks projects. I'm going to present a couple of slides but before we do, you are going to hopefully hear from some of ENA's furry friends. In the UK, this is how our energy system used to look. Large centralised power sources distributing electricity to all corners of the country. And for a long time, it worked. That is until renewables came along and the whole landscape changed. Energy sources in the UK are becoming more varied and distributed, ranging from solar panels on the roof of your house to vast wind farms out at sea, a crucial development in the UK hitting net zero carbon emissions in 2050. That is where the Open Networks project comes in. The Open Networks project is run by us at Energy Networks Association with support from across the energy industry. Together we are transforming the way our energy networks operate. To manage this new landscape of energy sources, the networks are getting smarter and more dynamic, partly as a result of the transition to distribution system operation, DSO. DSO is local network management, where distributed system operators will have a greater role in managing the network at a local level, allowing the connection of more and more low carbon generation to keep our homes and communities running in the most efficient way possible. And it's working. In 2019, 37.1% of our power came from renewable sources. By 2050, that number is targeted to be 80%. To make sure everyone has a safe and reliable supply of energy, the networks need to balance supply and demand at a national level and manage congestion and constraints at a local level. This can be managed by using flexibility services. Flexibility is everyone chipping in a bit. Imagine a beaver opening and closing their dam to regulate flow and capacity in their local river. When the water level is high, they switch their energy to building their homes. And when the water level is low, they focus back on their dams. We're becoming more beaver like ourselves. As our system becomes more flexible, networks can use solar panels with battery storage and electric vehicles to manage usage patterns right across the country. Electric vehicle owners tap into cheaper tariffs and could sometimes even get paid to charge their cars on a windy evening when supply is high. And on the other side of the coin, when demand is high, consumers can get rewarded for ramping down their energy usage. This is called demand side response. Take supermarkets, for example. They can safely turn off their fridges for an hour without anyone noticing and customers can still buy produce. So they do it when demand is high, like an advert break on Bake Off Semi-Final. This reduces their costs and makes sure all those vital cups of teas get made. All this happens automatically, with homes and electric vehicles responding to price signals from the network, depending on what's happening. Being coordinated in our energy use and distribution is paving the way for an amazing new era in the UK's power grid. ENA's open networks project is leading the way in coordinating the switch to be more beaver like and reach net zero by 2050. Okay, great. Hopefully everyone was able to hear that successfully. It's going to be available on our website and you're trying to make some of our messaging a bit more accessible. So hopefully that helped with that. So if we can just quickly return to the slide deck. I've got a couple of slides which the beavers mainly covered, but I just want to talk about some of the some of the figures that we're seeing at the moment with respect to flexibility. So, I think the beavers introduced the challenge, but effectively all of this is this change is being driven by digitalization decentralization decarbonization. And it's having a big impact now. So we've seen 30 gigawatts of distributed generation now connected to our distribution networks and over 85% of that is renewables, mainly wind and solar. In Q1 last year at the start of the pandemic, we saw 47% of renewables on the grid, which presented its own challenges. And we've now got over 350,000 EVs on the road, which maybe by itself is is not such a big number, but the speed of increase and speed of uptake of EVs is is really high and it is growing rapidly. If we could just move on to the next slide please Dan. So just introduce the project it's effectively looking at it's looking at delivering the smart grid it's it's in a smart grid project. We've got all of our electricity members involved in it so we've got all of our distribution networks as you can see on the right hand side there and also the transmission networks. And we've even now got a joint work stream with our sister gas goes green project, looking at whole system solutions and holes and addressing whole system problems. The project itself has also been a key part of base and off gems smart systems and flexibility plan. We're working very closely with government including them having them sit on the steering group for the project. We could move on please Dan. So, in terms of what flexibility actually is. So, as I mentioned, there's a lot of distributed energy resources connecting to the system. The increasing amount of those are becoming flexible, which we believe is critical to achieving net zero, especially when you've got a significant amount of intermittent resources on the system. So what do we mean by being flexible effectively we mean the ability to control or schedule demand and or generation, ie turn it up and turn it down when when needed or when required. The ability itself can help address local and national energy needs. So, for example, it can help reduce the national peak and national good ESO has started procuring services from distributed energy resources to do that. So at a local level from a DNO perspective, we can use cost effective flexibility to relieve local network congestion or constraints as you saw in the video. We've just moved on thanks Dan. So what does this mean in reality. So, all of our networks have made a flexibility commitment commitment. What it effectively means is we're going to use cost effective flexibility to relieve congestion ahead of traditional network reinforcement so we're going to procure a service instead of building a cable for example. So with what this means for the size of the market. Last year we had almost two gigawatts tended out by the six GB DNOs at various voltage levels but that included even a procuring services right down at low voltage so on on the block for example. So the purpose of the project is to grow these markets help make them more accessible, easier to understand and put more liquidity into them. There's a bit of background. Just go on mute, you're not on mute, that would be fantastic. And we can also go on to the next slide please. So in terms of the markets as I said they're increasing in size, almost to give what's going out last year. However, we're not when still not procuring all that we need on average across the country we're probably procuring somewhere in the range of 50 to 60% of what we need we're just finalizing those stats at the moment. Some areas we're getting more than what we need more than 100% in other areas we're not getting anywhere near what we need so we know that we need to increase liquidity in these markets there's a range of ways that we can do this including better visibility and ease of access. Creating standardized contractual terms and working with stakeholders to make those easier to understand and sign up to we're also going to be aligning those with the ESO services later this year. Better reporting in stakeholder engagement, but for the purposes of today's session, we think one of the key areas where we can increase this liquidity is by boosting residential flexibility. So most of the participants at the moment in these local markets have been industrial and commercial customers. We're starting to see a little bit of residential flex. Dabble, but to be honest, most of it is still INC. So we believe there's huge untap potential in residential properties, particularly as they get more of these distributed energy resources such as EVs, heat pumps, batteries, etc. In their homes and small businesses. There's a range of barriers that exist to those which I'm sure we'll discuss later today. And just a final note that we also think that as well as from the commercial side of things, innovation and deep collaboration across government and industry is absolutely critical to overcoming some of these barriers. So that's just a few brief notes on where we are at the moment with your open networks project and why we think residential flexibility is so critical. Hopefully we'll hear a bit more about that today and hear more about the challenges and how we can overcome them. So I'm now going to hand over to Laura Sands, who's the CEO of challenging ideas and she's going to chair a panel and first talk about the recosting energy project. So I will hand over to you now Laura. Thank you so much Randolph and I love your beavers by the way I think that all the whole video is really really important in conveying that message. I just wanted to also say great thanks to Chi because with your background Chi but also your challenge this is all about net zero. And it's absolutely crucial that we start moving forward on flexibility right the way across the system. I always talk about in the food sector, if you didn't have fridges in people's homes, those supermarkets are supermarkets would have to be three times the current size, because we wouldn't have that ability to create flexibility in our domestic environment for food and we would have to have a much, much greater level of production. So it's an absolute fundamental point that we need to build flexibility at every point within the energy sector. So what I like and many people do talk about the domestic power station. In many ways what this is is a sort of conflation of digitalised assets in people's homes that can generate that can store and that can actually dispense. So it looks at those wonderful smart homes and thinks that this is all about the future but actually, we can start seeing this emerging in construction and in retrofits. So it is an exciting tipping point. In addition obviously EV cars are absolutely crucial to this particular debate. And together, we start to get an integrated system of flexibility, and in many ways ability to support and it contribute to the energy system. Next slide. And I just wanted to put in some ways in marrying what she was saying this into the context of net zero. So in our recosting energy program, we've been talking about that the net zero isn't the consumption models that we've had in the past which is chuck as much energy down the pipes and let the customer consume. So actually net zero is an optimisation and it is about driving out carbon rewarding customers, reducing whole system costs because that's where the costs are going to start to lie much more than just the commodity and maximise which are very much a network issue maximise the capacity and unlock that capital and flexibility is actually at the heart of all of those key optimisation drivers. Thank you. And what this actually creates is a new market design. We've got to look at the overall energy system and look to optimise that demand. And that is about getting more from less throughout the whole of the so called consumer and consumption experience and includes very much the commodity but really flexible demand at its heart. So that competitive pressure between optimised demand and optimised supply will start to really drive efficiencies, reduce our carbon intensity, but also reduce overall costs. And so through the recosting energy program, we really wanted to calibrate what actually flexibility means in terms of the value to the system. So currently, and we believe this is fundamentally wrong is we value or we cost the energy system around the levelised cost of the electricity itself. But as we start to get into much more complex whole system design, we are going to need to understand the cost to the whole system. And while you might not be able to see it on this chart, it's very exciting what flexibility does. It doesn't just help Randolph and his, and his great members, but it actually helps the overall cost of the whole system by deploying EVs. PV is very important as a self generator. Also heat pumps, also energy efficiency, and these all deliver something crucial, which is an avoided cost to the whole system. And so flexibility sits right at the heart of driving that efficiency. So I'm very excited about these domestic assets. And we calculated through our project that an EV van could deliver up to 500 pounds every year of value to the energy system. That is 500 pounds that is not being spent on a generating asset, not being spent on a gen set being fired up. This is something that we really need to unlock. But there are lots of challenges. Next slide. And that is, we really do need to consider how are we going to get millions of assets into people's homes for this market to really thrive. We've got to have a much greater deployment. And the Treasury talked about the net in their net zero report, absolutely pinned it and said that it's liquidity. I access capital constraints. People are willing to make investments, but they do not. And as we know, even more today, have sitting in their bank, you know, 8000 pounds to put on some solar panels and some battery storage. So let's be very, very clear. We have got to, in many ways, make the demand side of our energy system equal to our supply side. And if you continue, and that's why we're proposing that all these markets, all the markets that exist for large scale offshore wind, solar, solar farms, etc., is equally accessible to those people. For those consumers who want to, in many ways, make such a significant contribution to the energy system, but also save money. However, we do need these mechanisms. It's as a high bar for an individual to buy an EV car or get PV or heat pump installed, as it is for Orsted to put out a, put an offshore wind farm to get the investment. So we must start to be absolutely equal with those things. And I was very pleased to hear that Randolph was talking about standardising flexibility contracts. We absolutely believe there needs to be a flexibility purchase agreement, which absolutely brings to life this flexibility and create some certainty. Next slide. But how does this work? This works by, for example, a car leasing company leasing you a car, a nice EV car with, let's say, for example, 300 miles per week in it. They will then take the responsibility of optimising that car, of entering an agreement with the local DNO for flexibility, accessing a micro capacity market payment, reducing the asset costs. And most importantly, always looking for the lowest cost of energy in, in many ways in building up those 300 miles per week. This starts to have a massive downward pressure on costs right way through the system. But excitingly for a consumer, what that means is that they're getting a reduced price for their car and very cheap miles. So I throw this to the sector and to those people who I hope are going to be asking questions that we need to unlock these assets. We need to build those markets and conflate the technology, the markets and deep digitalisation. So we can start really ensuring that we can get prices to devices, that we can unlock this capacity that's sitting in people's homes, but also ensure that it is done in a fair way, giving access to not just those people with money in the bank. So thank you very much and I hope we will see lots of questions. So moving on from recosting energy, I'm very pleased to be able to introduce Julian Wiley from Social Energy, who's going to talk to us about actually meet this particular concept in practice, in reality, working for consumers. So thank you, Julian. Thank you Laura. That's really good. That was talking really about what Social Energy are doing now. We make homes domestic intelligent power stations. It's not conceptual. We've been doing this for seven years and Social Energy now have unlocked the value for domestic energy storage by using technology to stack multiple revenues automatically. So we benefit both the homes and grade symbiotically. Sorry, I just look at my slides there. It's profitable and a commercial model and we've done this over the last 18 months we've been deploying product and we've sold 7000 units to be able to pay so people have bought these and we are very happy customers. You can see we're validated by energy saving trust to reduce customers bills by 70%. So it does make it a viable purchase proposition for the customer. One of the reasons is because we realized some of the value comes from being an energy supplier, so avoiding Tino Ross and Dino Ross. One of the values being an aggregator and obviously the VPP, the residential AI platform we have drives the whole system to make this profitability. We're the first customer to pass it to yes to wind tenders for national grid balancing both monthly and weekly and we're doing this through domestic prosumers. If I could have the next slide please Dan. Okay, so this shows. I think we're quite proud of this. This is happening very often now. This is a recent frequency event and our fleet reacting sub second to help the event. So if I just move on again to the next slide, I should just really show you that we're doing what the big guys can do. Probably this is of interest to people on the on the webinar. So benefits to networks while we're making this profitable for a consumer and it also helps the low voltage network and national grid. So you can see, we bring new generation to the grid, which I think is very important with the onset of EVs. So I believe we need two to two and a half times the power that the energy that we currently have. And that's got to come from somewhere generating locally with low, with low losses and using onsite and then cleverly technology forecasting the usage of each home and forecasting the generation of each home and matching that to grid to optimize both grid and home. Solar switch off doesn't sound a big thing, but the future home standard is bringing I think it's 40% of the footprint has to be solar from next January. And I think if I wasn't a network now I'd be thinking we've got a real problem there because at peak we've got a lot of energy coming on the grid. So we need, well, we need storage, but we also need solar switch off in extreme extreme events. Obviously, we remove home from for a peak. And we just looking we're ready as a business. We're already for dynamic containment, which I think is an achievement for most of our competitors. We need them to get better. We need them to come on. So the sector evolves. I think the sector needs to be a strongly, but most of them are still conceptual and nobody's really cracked frequency response yet. However, social energy is already for dynamic containment and we will be entering the balancing mechanism later this year. Outage islanding I mentioned because I think there's a lot of at the moment you'll see this is able to pay that are buying the solution. And there's a fantastic model which I'll touch on in a second for social housing and social inclusion. And they do think that for the vulnerable on recent vulnerability webinars. There's a good reason for a battery to accept islanding. So if there is an outage, then you're looking after vulnerable people. Next slide please. So customer benefits. When you look at customer benefits on the face of it, this, you'd think this is too good to be true. So this is without any margins. This shows the cost price of a solar system installed in that's coming down in price. And the lifetime returns are really good because it's a fairly new model. Then the cost of customer acquisition is quite expensive because the customer is not so aware. There's reseller margins and single installs. But what I think the slide demonstrates is that the, the more competition comes in the market and minus of what we're doing, then the more the pick up will be because it is a viable option. Next slide please Dan. So this is my favorite topic is social houses. And if you think of the cost price of the kit of around 5,000 pounds, if it's bought in scale for social housing, then the profitability of that shared between the stakeholders. There's funded models coming in here. And this was what Laura touched on. We need certainty at the moment they merged. There's many merchant revenues. And I think social energy do a great job of capturing them all. But it's not, it's not easy. I think it would be very good and bring lots of competition and if we could get some longer term contracts. Just at the moment, if we, if a social housing authority bought our kit themselves, they have the ability to lower fuel poverty with their tenants by about 25%. And meet carbon targets in that they become net exporters of green energy. We're actually an exporter and they increase the value of the property by 14 sat points. But crucially, they can gain a long term revenue and increase yields on that property. And then just retouching on the, on the facts of bringing funders in. I think the scale is enough now. There's just a few, a few more things to check. Well, regulation wise that will bring funding in so you can have third party on models in social housing. So, I don't think there's a gap. Laura had a, I think it was Laura who had the slide of the haves and have nots. I really feel that they have nots can take full benefit. And I also am an advocate that the flexibility market scores social housing and carbon in the flexibility tenders. So just to close off, I think I must be coming near my timing. We've done this on a handful of resellers thousands out there with 6400 trading as a connected network of sort of solar and battery properties creating the UK's largest residential virtual power plant. It's a profitable model and it's here now. It's not conceptual. So, I think that's probably me for now and look forward to answering questions. Thank you very much, Julian. And great pleasure. Look forward to Ben Godfrey from WPD to do his presentation. I know they've been very much at the forefront of the flexibility market. Excellent. Thanks. Thanks, Laura. Yes. So I'm Ben Godfrey. I'm the DSO manager for Western power distribution. We operate networks down in the Midlands, Southwest and South Wales. And we have a significant offering of flexibility. Next slide please, Dan. We're currently seeking around about 240 megawatts worth of flexibility in the first half of this year. And that's to complement an existing portfolio of about 440 megawatts worth of flexibility that we have in contract. You can see our license areas there on the right hand side of the screen and that patchwork of yellow is where we're actively managing flexibility across those zones and where we're seeking more flexibility to enable our network to operate within its limits. And the critical part is us as a distribution network operator, we want to provide capacity and the ability to connect people to use electricity to help them on their decarbonisation journey. And, but we want to do that in the most economic and efficient way. And flexibility is such a great potential in that just by providing the right price signals and the right information to people to work in harmony with the network and doing the right thing that the network needs, then we can help lock the peaks and fill in the troughs of electricity consumption and really help maximise that capacity that we've already got in the network. Our network is fit for 14 gigawatts worth of demand and we can accommodate that throughout the whole year. However, that's not the way that electricity consumption actually works and we're finding at the moment that it's very much centred around particular peaks within the year that we would really like to try and flatten out. And so there's plenty of capacity in the networks, but it just needs to be used in a more optimal way and price signals with flexibility can do that and we can really start driving people to do that. So across WPD, we've implemented a platform, a tool suite called Flexible Power. We've led the way in terms of providing ability for customers to be dispatched and settled through that flexibility. And we're now sharing that across with a number of other DNOs across the UK to try and achieve standardisation. We very much see our role as a DNO in being a kind of B2B provider of flexibility and we need to work with aggregators, suppliers, virtual PowerPoint providers and other entities that are operating in this space to actually do the final leg and wrap up all those the abilities of customers to Flex to help us run the networks. The next slide talks about one of the innovation projects we've looked at, which is Future Flex. And this is really about understanding the ability of household domestic households to Flex and what sort of things that we might need to put in place to be able to achieve that. We have this idea of DSO-ready homes, so that is to understanding what the actual fabric of the home and what devices that are there within the home, so heat pumps, electric vehicles, batteries, that type of thing, to understand what the ability of that household is to Flex and then also layer on top of that the commercial offerings to allow them to take advantage of that. So it's pretty much a sort of two-pronged approach. So we've developed SustainAge, which is a DSO-type product that will allow households to participate in flexibility and provide that up to distribution network operators so that we can help manage the networks. We're using data from trials in order to be able to inform how material we think domestic flexibility can be and also trying to blend this into a way that incentivizes low-carbon flexibility, then perhaps the higher-carbon content flexibility that the electricity system has traditionally relied on such as gas-peaking sets. So we're bundling all this together will allow us to have access to flexibility that is both low-cost economic and also low-carbon as well. And I think that really is a key point that we want to try and ensure that the flexibility is sustainable now and to the future and will help us allow the full benefits of decarbonization to be pushed out across the whole of the UK and running in a way that will allow us to meet the 2050 target that everyone is signed on to now. Excellent. I think that's about me from my time and happy to hand back. Thank you, Ben, and no doubt people will ask some of the questions around how the market works, etc. So please do bring on your questions and really looking at smart transportation in reality. It's great to have Fraser Crichton from Dundee City Council, a city I know very well, who has actually been driving quite an exciting project that wants to make Dundee Europe's most visionary EV city. So Fraser, thank you very much. Thank you, Laura, and good afternoon, everyone. First of all, I'd like to say that we were voted the most visionary city. That's the trophy we've got in that picture there. So I'm going to be very quick through this because I can see lots of questions. So if we just move on to the next slide. There's just a quick background of transportation in Dundee City Council. I started this nearly 10 years ago as the local authority vehicles and it quickly moved on to the whole city, as you'll see it on the infrastructure very shortly. But just to highlight a few things, we're now sitting on a council fleet. 23 per cent of the vehicles are electric. I've committed to the end of 2022 to have all cars, small vans and medium vans. That's roughly about 480 vehicles will all be electric, which is now less than two years. And now we've moved on to look much larger. As you can see down there on the left hand side, we've moved on to bin lorry. So I've got the first two. I've ordered another four. I've got sweepers, large sweepers, etc. And again, I've committed to within the next eight to nine years, all 36 bin lorries will be electric. On the business side of it and taxis 20 actually I looked at the other day, I think it's 23.9 per cent of the taxes in Dundee are pure electric. And we have businesses also such as delivery food delivery company, especially during lockdown. They've increased to 50 vehicles in a delivery company and the public as well as you can see Dundee's Lorraine Kelly there. That's now sitting at roughly about 3, 4 per cent and increasing as was pointed out earlier, a rapid rate. This really mean what I used to do was just buy vehicles. But if you look at the next slide, what is that? What I had to create is infrastructure for all these vehicles. So what you can see here is all the different ones. The one that a lot of people know about in Dundee, which is the bottom left one, which is a one of three hubs were in the process of building a fourth hub in the city, which is charging infrastructure. And tailored for not just the public but also for the taxi industry, which is a major polluter in the city. And what you see there is the 650 kilowatt rapid chargers and on general for 22 kilowatt chargers for slower charging and all established renewables the solar on top of it creates roughly about 45 kilowatts. And that is supplies on the very left hand side that supplies second hand batteries in the container there. And it stores there. And obviously at that rate, and you get all the charge and sort of just said it's actually only as peak shaving, but obviously it's the concept and to understand the sort of usage. The three hubs before lockdown were about 130,000 charging sessions a year. So about 15 times a day, those rapid charges were getting used on the top left. You see, which is our multi story car parks, which is for obviously to the public in the outer ring of the city centre. And uniquely what that is there again, you can see the solar on top of it. But the charges there are dynamic loaded charges. So even if we get a multitude of cars in there, if we have safer, I would say 40 cars coming there, obviously the solar is there's not enough solar there. So we tend to try and stay away from the grid as much as we possibly can. So they're there for the charge might be seven kilowatt, but it'll be reduced to about two or three kilowatts depending on how many cars are there. Because we know those cars are going to be there for a long time. They've come into the city centre to work and people to work. So there's eight hours they're going to be there so we can reduce that charge. So we're always using your renewables on the and that is also that feeds a Tesla wall unit, battery storage wall unit. So if there's not enough vehicles there for argument's sake, then the the lighting and the barrier system for those multi story car parks. That's where the energy goes. So we're always looking to different ways of utilising the energy from the sun. On the top right is the one that's the new hub, the SUV hub, which is actually got 150 kilowatt charges there for the bin lorries that I showed you earlier. Now, again, this is, you know, for me, vehicles and the hardware for this are not the key. As probably, you know, this for this whole webinar today is the energy. Where is that energy coming from? So on that site, I'm putting solar on top of the workshops here. I'm putting on top of the all the buildings to feed it. It's going to be 150 kilowatts of solar that's going to feed those bin lorries. And so obviously that's, again, a key factor. And again, if there's not enough charging going on, the power would go into the buildings that support that service. The last one there is the pop-up chargers that we've just been putting in across the city for residents. Again, there's many reasons for doing this that I could talk about, but one of the key things on this webinar is to do with. We want people to look to charge, potentially rather stay away from the 50. The rapid charging, we want it to be slower charge on three, four, five kilowatts. And we see residential pop-up chargers as key. Also 51% of the residents have done D11 tenements, so they don't have a driveway. And finally, just to kind of kind of wrap up the last slide. Just shows you that we've got a more, the holistic view across the city of using all these different energy sources. So rather than, actually, I always, I call vehicles, I do not call them EVs. I call them energy sources on four wheels. That's what they are. The potential to vehicle to grid to get the energy out of the car and back and forward is huge. And it should be what we're looking for the future. And another thing is cycling walking should come before that. Again, that reduces your electricity, whatever way you look at it. So we're developing many, many projects across the city all about realising that we're going to need electricity in the future. How do we make sure that it's renewable? There's no point in charging up electric cars, running about electric cars if we weren't called to get there. That's me. And I think that's very, very exciting and in many ways driven by a very strong vision, which obviously you've had to play the local politics to ensure that it's consistent and that it's sustainable because I think what we all feel is that we've got some very big challenges, but sometimes the political cycle is too short for one to be able to ensure that the investment comes online. So, but thank you very much indeed. Now we have a whole series of questions that are coming through. And I wanted to sort of group them and really ask you to respond from both perspectives. All of you are sort of breaking new ground and that's very exciting and really trying to unlock this flexibility at scale. I wonder whether you'd all comment on what you have experienced and what you think of the today's barriers and the future barriers, whether they be regulatory business practice or in some ways customer acceptance. And what you think the pathway to scale this because I think what Randolph was very much pointing at is, we need significant scale to really unlock these markets. So Fraser, coming to you first. I would love to hear about the scars on your back or not. Well, you know what? I'm only 21. Look at the state of me. No, yet you're totally right. So there are many obstacles. I would even say there's many obstacles within a council as you were pointing out there. I mean, for driving things forward, one of the things that I've been very lucky with the leadership. So the classic conversation I ever have is about the leader of the administration. He has two convertible cars and got a second hand. And that speaks volumes when your leader is prepared to go and lead by example. But certainly, I think there is a huge communication piece to be done here to try and make sure that the public are getting that the climate change has got to come. The public are getting that look the manufacturer EVs. But I think we need to tell people why we're doing it, where the benefits are and on mass. So we've got a Dundee, we've got a local media campaign every month. We have we put into the papers, etc. Just tell them why we're doing it, where we're going, getting that buy in. And I think I personally learnt that from Norway. And I think that goes for the whole energy sector. We should be telling them that this is not sustainable where we are just now and where we have to go and what we have to do. And I think that's a major contributor going forward is getting the people to buy into this. Because once you get the people into this, they drive everyone else forward. So I think there's a big bit to be taught from that. I think that in many ways, I mean, you're obviously absolutely right. In many ways, in some ways, Ben also touched on this a little bit. And I'd love to explore it a bit more. Obviously these barriers, but also the fact that maybe we don't always have the most sophisticated intermediaries. The suppliers, the who actually understand that firstly there is value, but also is able to pull together in some ways the team of positions that really unlock this. Yes, I would agree with that sort of premise Laura. So I think we're really at the bottom of a very steep curve of implementing flexibility across the UK electricity system. We have very few very large assets that deliver flexibility at the moment. And I think what we're starting to see is that there's huge potential, particularly for domestic flexibility from all these low carbon technologies that will be connecting into the future. And our crossover at the moment is really about ensuring that there's sufficient mechanisms from a regulatory and propositions that have been developed through industry to be able to tap into that. And then as and when those volumes, particularly of domestic flex start increasing and people are willing to participate in those, then that can come online and actually start driving down some of the costs of this flexibility. So I think I think what we've seen to date is that as a kind of industry and the potential for flexibility to be able to provide these solutions is there. I don't really think that there's any regulatory barriers that are preventing us from doing that. It's really about technological barriers within the domestic premise to actually start using that flexibility. We can see that there is already some new entrants that are building on that and able to deliver on that. It just needs to be more widespread. We've certainly had some real great success in tapping into flexibility where it exists and it can be a very firm financial revenue for those people, but we it's not ubiquitous. It's not everywhere on the network and we really need it to be much more embedded. Thank you, Ben. And, and Julian, a lot of people are asking what were the sort of challenges that you found setting up social energy and where you feel that there's still friction to actually sort of scale the proposition. You have to come off mute. I could talk a long time on that question Laura and the get rich quick scheme so far seven years in and lots of challenges along the way. We set off different to everybody else we came from a consumer led so we were looking to make a consumer by a product so we've I'm very different to anybody on the call in commercial and the first thing I look at is how I can make that a viable proposition. And that wasn't easy. It was the technology that made that arrive. I think the things that have hindered and anybody who's listened to me anywhere before. I've always shouted out about certainty, because if you go to a homeowner or a funder and say buy this battery by the solar and you will get the bankable solar revenue which is quite good. But it's the other revenue stacks that you need to make it viable for the consumer to purchase. And they were very much merchant revenues recently they're becoming more bankable so that's been moved obstacles regarding regulation I think you touched on. I've been very surprised coming from a different sector how good regular regulatory boards and. Off gym. All the network operator for me everybody is moving in the right direction that that's not been an obstacle at all. And I think we can get there. The journey is, I think we're on the start of the journey the technologies here and the way to make it happen collaborations. So, there's people with great hot water technology that they can use for demand side response, the social energy there's other people out there, and I think licensing technology licensing to suppliers, particularly. So, anybody who has decent software, it should be made available quickly to other utilities, we are making ours available that will bring scale because the cost of acquisition of the customer is the most difficult thing. Sorry, I know I've talked a lot there but the final thing for me is, we've spent 18 months honing that model, because we learned lots where with the things we were doing wrong. We now launch in March, we've sold, we've actually sold 7000 units through a handful of small installers or installers, and there's over 1000 out there so going out to those 1000 make it collaborations and partnerships licensing technology with utilities. This can come very, very quickly. So, sorry about that for taking the stage. No, we, you've absolutely touched on one of my, you know, exciting points and that is the whole issue around the technology exists. The markets need to evolve. And in many ways the digitalization of the system needs to be turbo charged and if you've got the three key components working together in an effective business model you start to unlock those things. Thank you. But, but one, one of the things that I'm interested in what the work we did with recosting was about the whole system costs, and this issue of avoided cost to the overall cost of the energy system that we're all going to have to pay for. And I wonder whether all of you look at the revenue stacks that you're trying to make, whether actually you're getting enough for your flexibility, whether you're being rewarded enough through the system. Julian, I think our model is viable because we, we've got sophisticated technology that is forecasting the price of energy forecasting the demand of energy. And I think if we can do it, then all the bigger companies can do it as well. So it's taken a while. I will bang on with the certainty. If you're selling to somebody now in any way, shape or form, the more certainty you can give them for the investment, the more they will pick it up. 2020 for me was a year about trying to educate that we exist and the technology is here. 2021, I think people have come back in this short time and the sentiment for green energy and energy saving is suddenly feels like a wave coming our way. So I just think they with these collaborations. The market is good. I don't have any, obviously if it's better, it will roll out sooner and there'll be more ability to collaborate than custom margins will be enough to share them to share out. Fraser, I just wondered looking at it from from your perspective, what consumer benefits and do you have any issues around we've been asked about consumer protection. To what extent do you see that you can pass those benefits but also ensure certainty for consumers through the propositions that you're enabling. Yeah, I think, you know, I'm just touching on points that, you know, we're not here to make money and you're right, we're not. But the overall picture of what we're trying to do with all the things that I've just shown you in transportation is, is there's so many different areas to this. The example I'll use is someone coming into the city, we from east west and south and just calling gridlock everybody knows within the city. So we need a price structure within our car parks, etc. Where we're able, for another word, to manipulate the transportation system using the charging infrastructure, using the energy so that if we've got a concert in the middle of the city, we can say go to that car park. The char, the tariffs are practically nothing if you go to the other one, it's five times it. If during the night time, we're going to create a low emission zone and not only do we create a low emission zone within the city, we want those vehicles to park in our multi story car parks at night and we'll give them reduced rates as a benefit of moving your vehicles and creating a city that's not just a low emission zone. It has no vehicles in it. So there's a huge holistic view of what we're trying to do, and then you've got to understand the energy, the flexibility of where you're now deciding to do it all about. Now, the changing on lockdown has changed everything as everyone knows on working practices. So what we used to do with our car parks and kind of sticking on this theme is we used to skip people a monthly pass and they used to come into the city and had it for a month. What we're going to see is a hybrid going forward, which is people working from home but still want to come into the office for maybe two, three days a week. It's going to be a hybrid. So what we're talking about is offering charging and parking together in the city centre where we want to go and then on a credit system understand the patterns that people are going to make and then understand the flexibility for the energy and where it is about. So the whole thing when we're talking about the transportation is how do we sit with this whole immobility, change over to immobility, how do we incorporate that with the movement within the city, etc. It's a huge project. It's a huge understanding, but the energy of it is key. And then the energy of that's the whole crux for me of what we're trying to do there on the transportation side. And you've been working closely, obviously with your network as part of the planning, which is great. Now I'm going to come back to Julian because we've got quite a few questions focused around consumer protection. Also, the issue about how do we actually create the proposition where there is what I would call a tenant, a sort of landlord, stroke service provider relationship and just be very useful to find out more about that. And the other thing that I'd love also you to cover off is this issue about the value of smart meters and how is that changing your business proposition to customers. Okay, so thanks Laura three great questions for me there and I'll start with the last verse if that's all right smart meters. I think we are the only utility that has every single customer with a smart meter because we need a smart meter to be able to settle half hourly, half hourly. So for us we love them. Maybe it could be a little bit better smarter, maybe smarter. Because we do that already. So if you were looking at down the line economies of scale you take one of those meters away to have one very smart meter at the moment with a smart meter. And we have our own MIT approved, extremely smart and fast meter. So we've no qualms about that. We love smart meters. Going back to consumer protection, again coming from my commercial background, trust pilot is everything and our business didn't recognize that originally, we were doing nothing wrong we just weren't educating the consumer. We have a C sat scores satisfaction scores and market leading we've only been a utility for two years, and we leave the sector in satisfied customers. We answer the phone, I think, either the quickest or second quickest, even though we're a digital business, and our businesses consumer centric. The way our revenue works is we take a minority share of all the clever commission, you might say, of all the collected clever trading and tenders and cost avoidance. So it's in our interest to reduce the customers bill. So we have negative customer bills, and they are our most profitable customer, which most people on the webinar will be amazed to hear. But our ambition is to have no paying customers because we're making more money. And then this the second the final question but your second question Laura, the landlord proposition again, my favorite subject, and I could really talk on this for a long time but very short version is the utopian scenario that I'd like to get to is the landlord supplies. It builds the heat and the energy with the rent. The best reason for that is, you've got one cost to serve and we deliver energy 70% cheaper. So if the landlord was to reduce the bit their energy bill by 20% and reduce the heating bill and that's a different subject but there's also a saving. If you had a broadband you'd have the landlord would actually be making a better yield and the tenant would be removed out to fuel poverty. The model exists, maybe there's some a little bit of regulation to change. And I think it's the thinking of the housing associations to pick this model up, which we're working on. And the second model to that is, we can simply have a customer who is a social landlord, sorry, a social tenant, whereby the landlord, we have bought the installation, the green target, the carbon target and the EPC. So there's a mix of those and depending on which housing association you speak to, there's various options. So there's some work to be done on the contracts, but it's a model that will be huge and I think this year you'll see it. We've got quite a few trials going in this year, and we're opening them up to people to see them. A question I'd like to put to sort of Ben and also to Randolph, which is, and maybe it's even to myself, which is about how we construct a sort of nationwide standardized flexibility purchase agreement where the actual relationship creates some longer term sort of almost baseline revenues, which actually starts to unlock these assets, because that seems to me to be the big challenges, we can't get the deployment because the assets are too expensive for so many people to access, but the flexibility purchase agreement would be useful to in some ways democratize the access to these markets. Ben, would you like to kick off? Yeah, I'm certainly in terms of standardization of contracts that some of the open networks is doing and I'll leave Randolph to expand on that a little bit more. But what we've seen through flexible power and WPD is offering is that the DNO provision of the revenue stack can make a substantial difference to the business case. But there are other more substantial elements such as wholesale price and supply and generation elements that also need to be considered. So I think in terms of a kind of whole electricity system PPA, I think that that needs proper industry collaboration across multiple parties to really bring that to the forefront. But I think you're completely right in saying that's really the area that we need to go is that we need to, I think we started seeing a bit of a clearer hand from the network operators and the system operator about what the potential for flexibility is and how those markets can be accessed. I think that the next part is to bring that all together into a provision for the customer. And that's perhaps where some further work needed for this year. I mean, in some ways what one could be looking at is almost a bit of sort of plug and play because actually the complexity is sitting behind in some ways the market rather than in front of it. And I think that when you start to look at all these different markets and all these revenue stacks for anybody other than the most super sophisticated energy experts, that accessibility then starts to become very salami sliced really doesn't it? Yes, and certainly we're very much working towards the ability to have assets kind of pre qualified outside of having to actually interact with the network operator so that we can see that the assets are able to provide a particular provision. And then plugging into any of the flexibility provision that we make, like you say should be kind of behind the scenes and between the B2B element rather than directly impacting on the customer. Yeah. And Randolph, I'm sure you have thoughts about this. I've always been excited by prices to devices even then bypasses so many different people within the process. But just update us on where we are with this sort of common contract, this common accessibility of flexibility. We've got to make it much more sort of consumer simple in many ways. Yeah, that's a good point Laura I like prices to devices as well. And we could we could go on about digitalization and how that will enable that that maybe that's fun for another session. So in terms of the common contracts so we have a common contract for DSO flexibility services with the six GB DNOs. I was speaking with my Northern Ireland colleagues this morning they're looking at using it as well. We've gone through a couple of iterations of that based on feedback from. We are launching version 1.2 of that this month if it hasn't gone out already. And then the next stages on that this year in the open networks project is to look at incorporating the ESO element so the transmission element as well because it's only DSO focused at the moment. So that all sort of tick off the DSO flex the ESO flex but like Ben said, and yourself. There's still other elements that might need to be incorporated in terms of like your whole systems flexibility PPA. For example, we're not looking at the energy aspect of it. Well, I think it's something that once we've started to get a stake in the ground, which is what you're doing with your flexibility agreement, it's about then building on that and making it much more of a sort of turnkey contractual relationship. Yeah, and it's a learning process for us, you know, we've gone through a few iterations and I'm sure there's going to be many more iterations to make it easier to read more accessible. So we're going to bring this wonderful webinar to an end, but I wanted to ask you each of you a question and I'll start with Randolph, right, and that is in four or five years time. I mean, I believe we're seeing a huge acceleration of change right in four or five years time. Where do you want and where do you expect the flexibility the domestic flexibility market to be. Yeah, so from my perspective, I think basically we want customers participating in a range of different markets, a range of different flex, flexibility markets. They could be local D and O national ESO markets, you know, wholesale energy trading, but actually they won't really know about any of it. There'll be some sort of digital service provider could be Julian or it could be others that basically take all that trading complexity for them. And all they have to do is say what their, let's say their minimum comfort levels are for their home and then all of the trading and maximizing their profits and minimizing their costs is behind digitally and in an automated way without the customer even knowing about it. I mean, I've always been surprised that the sector wants to engage with customers what they want them to turn into heating engineers or electrical passage experts. And what in many ways what we've lacked is sophisticated service providers at that consumer end. Julian in response to that you are proposed to be a sophisticated service provider. So where do you see the market in three to four years time. I think because Randolph thank you we do we do do that the consumer has to do nothing that they don't have any behavior change. And the sophisticated technology is good for good for the home, good for the grid. I believe it's because it's actually cheaper for a consumer to purchase so it's now becoming cheaper to do that than buy off the grid. And people talk. They're also the sentiment of going green. It's the natural model so I'm very confident that where I want it to be is where it will be within three or four years. Other competitors will join us very soon. And like I say when it becomes the proper sector, it will actually be easier for us it's quite hard when you're the, the only viable proposition in town. So, you've not heard him. Come on guys catch up please. Now that's a very unusual thing to say but okay so Julian is looking for some people on this call to come up and and challenge him. Fraser, your vision for the transportation in three to four years time. It's probably sort of similar to the comments that have just been made there, although I'll just roll back a little bit the conversation where people really are getting too much information they don't need it it's going to happen naturally. They were in a world where everybody wants to know about everything. And there's so you know people and next generation coming through yes they wanted how cheap is it that the best deal they can get, but they are very socially conscious of how we've managed to get to that so I think there are people do want to know, you know, some of the details find it but as far as transportation is the simple for me, I just want to have transportation moved around the city that the country Scotland in an eco friendly way where that's an electric vehicles and try and avoid fossil fuels. This is the bottom line is try and make sure we've got as much renewables, whether that's the whatever source that might be in the future and whether it's not even electric we're moving looking at hydrogen now. And so there's the you know that moves at another stage or something else, but in the bottom line is we want to make sure that as far as I'm concerned the transportation is moved around my country using renewable energy. Simple as that. Well, that is pretty clear. And very impressive to have been able to achieve. Ben, what's your vision for the future. So, so I think, I think we're in a really good place at the moment that we seem to be having a bit of a convergence of the technology, the right policy instruments, the right mechanisms within the industry to make this all work. So we're really just looking for uptake my only additional thing to add on to that is rounding back on on some of the discussions earlier we had about not leaving people behind as well. So there are other sort of things that we really should be doing to try and engage on energy efficiency measures that can be used instead of flexibility. Perhaps educating supporting some of the particularly fuel, poor and vulnerable customers so that it's not reducing their consumption or changing their behavior. We can allow flexibility to actually increase their consumption in some particular parts and helpfully increase their comfort as well. So, you know, if we design things in such a way that it does provide a bit of a safety net and, you know, enables both the people who want to be active and participate and do all the whizzy things but but also perhaps and support the people who are towards the back end of that spectrum. I think that would be really, you know, that that is success to me. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think picking up on cheese first point is we are running out of time, not just on this webinar, but we are running out of time on climate to. And so I think that we all have incumbent very much as Fraser, who's very passionate about climate change as we all are, but is that we cannot hold back, and it is all about scale deployment and action. And I have to say, I think the industry has come so far in the last four to five years, but I think we even need to put a bit more foot on one of Fraser's EV cars on the accelerator. So, my challenge to everyone is we need to move on, move up and scale up. But I think this is a very exciting part of the agenda and where consumers will start to see some real benefits. So I'd like to say huge thank you to the ENA to Chi, former colleague of mine, and also to our great participants we've had fantastic questions which will all be captured. And I understand that both the video of this conference and also the slides will be made available to everybody who's registered. So I wanted to say huge thank you to my great panel. And thank you to Randolph Chi and the team. So goodbye and have a good afternoon. Thanks everyone for joining.