 Okay, hello and welcome back to episode 107 of the market maker podcast You have to excuse my voice still recovering for the touch of the man flu At the moment, so I'll do my best. It might get a bit croaky towards the end So I'm gonna have to lean on you. I'm afraid here's this episode. Well, I'm used to carrying you, you know, so That's it business as usual This is my role my role is to make you shine so Give you the airwaves but look we'll we'll discuss a few things in this episode. So a little bit different Last couple we've been quite concentrated on specific topics, but this week overall I'm not gonna say it was dull because there's plenty of stuff going on But it hasn't been like a one major killer blow for markets So we're gonna talk a little bit about the equity rally the bull market that we're in So we'll talk a little bit about that for the technology sector in particular Then on the other side not doing so well of the bankers global deal-making having its weakest start to the year in a decade and Linked to that we had one of the big first US financial names report their Q1 numbers Jeffries their invested banking fees got hammered is this a sign of things to come for the upcoming earning season? That's not for another two weeks or so. So a good litmus test for how they might perform some of those other financial institutions And then UBS still in the spotlight, of course following the credit Swiss Transaction and they brought back a very Senior figure to the foals has been called to arms. So We'll explain a little bit about who Sergio a motty is and then to finish things off We have a quick chat about gold Because this month it's the 31st of March recording this set to be the first month of net inflows into gold ETFs for about 10 months So might be quite obvious why but there's some interesting underlying Kind of dynamics to be aware of as well We can discuss and we'll look to wrap things off with a little bit of an apple Because they've introduced Apple pay later to allow consumers to pay for purchases over time and whether or not that's going to make a big Difference to them or their competitors, of course Saw the clown a guy tweeting this morning saying what was it imitation is the greatest form of flattery he tweeted this morning Yeah, whatever mate But let's kick things off with the Nasdaq. I mean, I was just looking at the charts We're still holding up pretty much at the best levels As as we stand toward the end of the week Nasdaq 100 in the middle of the week Wednesday for the for the first time in nearly three years moved into a ball market and Technology stocks outperforming of course helping that Couple of couple of figures then So just add into this so well, I guess first of all, why don't you give us the definitions of These these terminologies that we that we hear get referred to yeah, well poor markets bear markets corrections So there's there's a rule rule for all this stuff So it's when you're talking about any market, right? But normally when you're talking about the big stock indices these terms are rolled out So a bull market is just a situation where the current price Moves more than 20 percent above the Recent low or whenever the low was if you're now 20 percent Above that low then technically speaking That's what we call a bull market. So when you're looking at the Nasdaq then Below what we kind of had a we basically had a triple bottom September or sorry, October November December You could even call it quadruple start of January as well. You had this kind of big technical sort of bottom formation And then this year It's just launched To the upside and actually so quarter one Just so happens the low was based on the fifth of January, right? And that was at 10,700 on the Nasdaq And here we are knocking on the door nearly of 13,000 currently trading 12,960 So yeah, technically speaking that is just a whisker over 20 percent move To the upside so that's a bull market a bear market. It's just the opposite That's when you're the current price is 20 percent below the recent high And then the correction is kind of in the middle a correction is a 10 drop from recent highs So that's just the kind of technicals of it all But I'm quite interested I mean, it's quite extraordinary I would say that officially we are in a bull market Nasdaq kind of seems a bit odd to be Saying those words given kind of what's been going on Over the last few weeks, but last few weeks like mass layoffs so all the tech firms Yeah I mean I think there's two things to talk about here firstly What about the other markets? Obviously the Nasdaq is just tech So tech has been a big outperformer in 2023 But when you kind of have a look at the s and p 500 for example Over the same period since that's a quarter one of 2023 The s and p well, what do you think? I mean, it's up, but Well with that kind of calculating well, what's your broad guess? The Nasdaq's up 20 percent, which you reckon the s and p should be up five Okay, you've gone you've gone low ball there. All right. It's actually seven So the s and p is up seven percent bearing in mind that 25 percent of the s and p is tech Tech has smashed it So actually seven percent is I mean that's surprisingly low I would say Relatively the footsie 100 quarter three two percent up Oh come on the uk the good old footsie 100 A smashed a two percent Well, you know London also lost its title I saw according to a city of London survey About the financial capital of the world is no longer London For the first time in quite a long time What what what do you? What's what's how do you measure what? Because I would say London probably lost that Long time ago. This was a survey run by the city of London corporation peers Okay They finally Admitted Yeah, they're like come on guys. You're about like 50 points off every other tracker here You're gonna have to bite the bullet Look the footsie's obviously Hasn't performed well because there's it's very heavyweight banks Compared to these other indices like the s and p or obviously certainly the nasdaq so given recent events Then for sure the footsie 100 index has suffered more than most but um, so Yeah, I guess that's one thing right just to say the tech sector has certainly outperformed But like what's going on because it's a bit strange Given this banking crisis and as you're saying Looming recession fears and all the rest of it and you're like well, how the hell does that work? Well, I think it's a kind of a function of an unwind of last year's trade this last year tech underperformed And was trending lower all year because of higher interest rates And because of the fact that the outlook for interest rates in the future Remained, you know more hikes more hikes interest rates higher for longer inflation staying stubbornly high You know more hikes more hikes more hikes and and ultimately technology is an interest rate sensitive sector And that's we talked about this is about growth stocks generally You know the valuations today are very much You know that today's valuation is built out of those that future growth Um and the future revenues and the future profits, okay But of course if interest rates are higher, well, then you've got to discount that future cash flow. So Future profits becomes less valuable today And so 2022 was just all about that. It was revaluing growth and tech stocks in particular Factoring in now a higher interest rate environment discounting those future profits Now this year has kind of flipped a bit hasn't it because the interest rate outlook has now shifted And it's shifted really in the last few weeks really because of the banking crisis because of svb all of a sudden Everyone's kind of pivoted their expectations and like right now And actually to put some numbers on this. So in december The market implied fed funds rate Oh, sorry not in december. Sorry the market implied fed funds rate for december 2023 Put more simply what will fed interest rates be at the end of this year Markets were pricing in at the start of march. So pre pre svb They were pricing in rates at five and a half percent at the end of this year Now fast forward four weeks. They're now pricing in 4.3 percent So that's a huge change in future rate expectations Markets are pricing in rate cuts So that's now the opposite to that 2022 story. So that's why tech stocks Are smashing it here because our interest rate expectations have pivoted And to kind of tie that in as well. You had hsbc global private bank Come out earlier This week talking about that the green bank is likely to be dragged lower by an economic slowdown in the us And the fed winding down its campaign of interest rate increases in the second half Of 2023 and they were kind of warning about bracing for an extended period of dollar weakness What they were talking about. Yeah I mean, I don't know whether it's uh I have a personal opinion here, which um Is just I stress just my personal opinion uh, but I think that maybe We're in a little bit of a I don't think this is sustainable This nasdaq move this tech stock rally I don't think is sustainable in the short term And that's just because I think again, we probably got I think we've got a bit carried away again with These rate expectations. So the idea the fed are going to start cutting at the end of this year. I mean I would say that Firstly they're data dependent now. So they've moved to the position of being data dependent And currently we think they might hike once more Then there's going to be a recession and they're going to start cutting. That's what markets think but um They're only going to start cutting if inflation starts to come down Right And is inflation going to come down? I mean, we're going to find out. We actually got some data today the pce figures from the us Uh, and we'll see we had european inflation figures this morning um And if you get your ft's out and read the headlines, you're like, oh wow inflation's dropped by much more than expected Except that's not the important part because underlying that the core inflation reading Continue to go up. So yes, the energy costs are coming down, right? But if you take out the energy costs the underlying inflation re-situation is still Moving higher and we had we had higher than expected inflation figures in the uk as well, right? So i'm not sure that this inflation thing Is tamed. I I think inflation is going to stay Higher And therefore the fed are going to find it hard to be able to cut rates So then you move to the next Well, if they therefore if they do end up cutting rates this year, it's going to be because we have a big recession And then you're like, well, okay, if you have a big recession, well, we'll surely Stop markets, you know, they're not pricing a big recession at this point So they're kind of rallying because we're going to get rate cuts at the end of the year without quite realizing The scenario that would need to play out in order for those rate cuts to happen So I think these I think a lot of investors in this short term have got a bit carried away They're kind of in old school mode by the dip, you know money's super cheap And and we're just not living in that world anymore You sound a little bit like michael barry. I don't know if you saw that tweet that he put out I didn't see his tweet, but yeah, I'm definitely more in his camp these days. What's he say? He originally tweeted sell Referring to equities when I think this was um But probably I think at the bottom of the bull market Right And so the the meme that was in circulation Yesterday was that he tweeted again and said I was wrong And actually I mean credit to him right for like coming out and just you know Taking accountability for that. Um, but yeah, I'll I'll hook you hook you guys up but Let's tie in gold then perhaps of all the different subject matter. We were talking about Yeah So how does how does gold fit into that mix that you've described and does that then Lend its hands to why It's an attractive investment at the moment that stat was that march will be the first month of net inflows into gold ETFs for 10 months while The volume of bullish options bets tied to funds Has approached record levels as well Yeah, I think so gold's trading just shy of $2,000. Okay um, we've had a big rally Just in the last couple of weeks But really we've had a really big rally over the last four months because If you go back to the start of november, we kind of had a bottom out at around $1,600 And it's rally to 2000. Okay, so that big move higher 2000s are really critical Kind of lying in the sand in terms of a price point for gold. We've breached it Um, well, let me go back further on my chart just to make sure. Yeah, we kind of breached it uh, briefly in august 2020 During the obviously the kind of first round of co vid We then breached it again very briefly March 2022 But each time there was a move above 2000 hardly for hardly any period and then down right So we've never sustained a move above 2000 and you're now seeing people starting to say this is the time um, I don't know I would say that the banking crisis particularly was very positive for gold not only because gold is uh a safe haven Right, but all of a sudden you have people looking for places to park their hash You know Other than the usual place of well, I'll just put it in my bank account. And so I think gold was a particularly um You know go to vehicle For some of these deposits that were getting pulled out of banks now I think we'll go break 2000 now and push higher I think it will if the banking crisis the svb crisis the credit swiss crisis if it's not over Then yeah, sure, but you know when we talk about the nasdaq bull market, you know people are Getting more confident that the banking crisis is has now finished And you know that whole risk is going away So I think gold above 2000 I don't know I'm not quite as bullish Maybe as some are I think it's definitely tied to that banking crisis Could you explain this element then there was a piece in the ft Where it was a metals analyst at standard chartered and they were talking about the collapse of svb and signature massive increase in tactical positioning Safe haven so on fine They also said in previous crises This impact has been offset by other investors being forced to sell gold To meet margin calls and other investments However, this analyst said that months of investor outflows Have meant the positioning was light at the start of the latest problems Reducing the amount of further selling right That makes sense right because yeah one thing that stops go gold going higher in a moment of crisis is People that need liquidity and need cash. They've got margin calls to cover Where'd you get where'd you get your cash from? Well, okay. I'm going to have to sell Some asset that I own In order to raise capital To kind of plug that margin call right so the go one of the go-to assets to sell is gold So you sell gold ironically In a crisis because if all you think gold is for is a safe haven Well, you should be buying it in a crisis and it should only ever go up but Yeah, there's you've got to kind of go beyond that and people selling To cover margin calls But the point here in that article was that there weren't many people who owned gold in a way right so It wasn't it's no longer the go-to asset necessarily to sell to raise cash For other use and so yeah that that sell side downside pressure Has been less strong now than in previous times which of course helps it move higher Cool Right. Well, let's let's pivot and let's talk a little bit about global deal making I don't think it will come as much of a surprise to anyone That it's been the weakest start of the year in a decade Um to give you a couple of percentages the value of mergers and acquisitions fell 45 percent the year over year To 550 and a half billion u.s. Dollars the largest declines is q1 Of 2001 Europe was the slowest performing region activity down 63 percent Followed by u.s. Down 47 percent and apac was down 24 percent Anything in there that Maybe the percentages Yeah, I mean they're huge Especially like these are year-on-year percentages right and like 2022 wasn't good either I mean really 2022 it was more Quarter one was the best quarter in that year, but it was a really bad year right so these year-on-year comps you know to have a massive Drop again of these magnitudes. It's it's yeah just showing Just how desperately bad deal flow is still Um, I think some of the early deals that are going through is predominantly based in healthcare Yeah, kind of larger magnitude deals Yeah, so you I mean exactly so, you know if you took out some of the the super big Deals and there haven't been many of them like Pfizer bought Cgen for 43 billion dollars Right that that one deal is 43 billion You know out of a total of 550 billion that's almost 10 percent of that entire total right so You kind of took that Pfizer deal off the it's kind of It's even worse. So yeah, but the biggest percentage decline in deal flow since 2001 So yeah, this is this is properly bad and Europe's the worst the worst of it. I mean It's not a surprise that it's bad. I mean, I think it is a surprise. It's that bad But your big headwinds Are all the obvious stuff. It's rising interest rates That's of course made Financing these particularly these larger deals More expensive So what we have seen is the number of deals has been quite You know strong Um, but the value of them has been really low So I think you've had quite a lot of activity on the small to mid size and just hardly anything coming through on that that big Big top level and that's one is because interest rates make financing more expensive Um, obviously we've had valuations collapse and so if companies are able to Not raise capital What I mean by that is have they got enough cash flow? You know, have they got enough working capital to continue because some companies that don't have that luxury They're running out of cash. They're trying to reduce their cash burn By cutting costs like the e-long musk You know twitter Initiative that sparked a lot of cost cutting in the tech sector particularly right So people are trying to cut costs so that their Their kind of runway is extended Delaying their need to raise capital because the problem with raising capital now You know having to have a massive down round Right where you're raising capital at valuation That is way way way way lower Than the valuation you raised cash at last time Okay, so let's say if you raised cash in 2021 in the bubble Then you had valuations that were crazy high, right? So I can give you a Example that will connect Within some of the other themes we'll talk about but clana Yeah So clana Had an initial price tag They got as high as 46 billion US dollars. I think it was less than a year later Yeah, they had a funding round and it put their valuation at 6.7 Oh, I never felt well, what's the saying I would have never felt So poor if I haven't tasted such riches that poor guy, huh? He was on there. I remember he was on the diary of a ceo that podcast What the clana founder clana founder and the title of the podcast episode was even like From zero to 46 billion Back to zero They can do another episode back to back to zero again Well, I'm sure I'm sure to be fair credit to him. He's probably learned A lot through that process. I'm sure but but so this is this is a serious headwind to deal flow because companies are desperately trying to avoid raising capital if they can Because yeah, but the the discounts are just unbelievable So obviously investors don't want to have to mark to market their book You know, if you bought if you were in the round where clana raised at 46 billion What's your what's your investment worth now? You know, it's It's collapsed, right? So they're trying to put off and so obviously this means deal flow volume Is much lower and then obviously we've had a banking crisis Which clearly isn't going to help either um, so you've yeah, you've got these kind of You might say three big headwinds that are all related I mean, ultimately all of those things are about interest rates moving higher super past, okay valuations collapsing Obviously the cost of money going up and the banking crisis is all wrapped up into this super aggressive rate hiking cycle That's fed into Yeah deal flow and regionally it's quite interesting. You mentioned that you're Europe are down 63 percent year on year in terms of In terms of deal deal flow That compares to the us down 47 percent and then asia pacific down 24 percent So certainly Europe that seems to be A big loser here But the activity, yeah, I've got a chart here. It's just showing The activity, you know where these deals that are happening. Yeah, healthcare and technology Are the big two And the ones where you're seeing virtually no action at all is down in like media telecoms retail The super staples you're getting virtually no action down there whatsoever So the numbers we had from from jeffreys then this week Not that surprising on that side their investment banking revenues were down about 42 percent That was actually worse than what the street was expecting On the flip side though. I think their trading division was Really strong. I think it was their capital markets division. I think it was their Fourth highest revenue figure they've had in their history So given all of the macro environment you've discussed Still that imbalance it feels like a bit of a copy paste repeat from where we were from last earning season. So When we think about the other bigger banks that formally kick off The official reporting season that's not until the 14th of april When we get jp morgan city and then the rest follow thereafter Is earning season not really for the banks at least that bigger deal Oh, I'd say it's a massive deal for the banks just because I mean, yeah, all right If you've got both sides right if you've got an investment banking division That's performed really badly We expect given deal flow and jeffreys confirming that if you've also got the kind of sales and trading market side Then fine that's going to offset it that's done really well That's either the bank performs really strongly when markets are super volatile Which of course they have been that means they make money from trade flow right trade volume So when markets are all kicking off Volumes are steeply higher and that's how they make their money. Okay, so fine that that can be offset But we've just had a banking crisis Right, so all these banks when they're reporting their earnings Everyone's going to be right. What's going on? Let's have a look at your deposit book Has your deposit book declined? You know, what's the deposit outflows? Um, are you put and there's there going to be a lot of questions about well, hang on all those securities that you're those hold to maturity Securities that you've got sat on your balance sheet You know, what's the actual value of those please, you know Why aren't you marking to market because actually the value of those is a lot lower, right? This is what this was what happened with svb Okay, so I think that banks will be under a huge amount of attention given that we've had this banking crisis Will it spark And flare up another episode of the banking crisis I think it's the big question Um, yes or no, and I don't know the answer to that. We'll see. Um, but Yeah, I think this earning season is really key just stepping outside of the financial sector and looking at it more broadly You know, you got the nasdaq in a bull market up 20 percent um And I think actually the next few weeks are really important because We're going to start to see the earnings So how have companies performed in quarter one? But more importantly, what's their outlook going forwards and we've got a recession coming, right? So what What do they think about that and how is that impacting their forecasts for revenues and profits and it may be that we start to get some decent sized revisions lower on their outlook For the rest of 2023 and that could be a negative Sort of catalyst. Um, but then also, you know, the next phase of data So jobs data out of the us inflation data, you know, if the banking crisis is done and it's behind us Well, look, it's back to inflation, isn't it? And what's happening to inflation and that's what the fed are going to make their decisions based on And so I think the next few weeks with earnings season and then another round of Monthly data is is going to be really key And yeah, is this is this stock market rally? Is it sustainable or not? Sustainable the tech firms will say what an awesome job they've done with streamlining their businesses And let's just talk up Generative AI a little bit more. Let's juice that narrative And then the banks I don't know with the banks. I was thinking from an information flow point of view Banks are very good at priming the market for bad news Yeah, and If there was going to be some skeletons that come out and questions of the magnitude that you mentioned Probably you still got time, right? These things tend to come out Nearer to the time of release of the official information. Maybe it's a bit early But I don't know. I just think you should have heard about this sort of stuff already There's been enough of a microscope on these financial firms to unearth and extract Those kind of skeletons that you are alluding to So Yeah, you're probably right Let's see. You're probably right, but I think with the tech sector. I think there's certain companies like Facebook is a really good example or meta. I should say where Their costs were out of control And that was hammering their share price because investors were losing faith in zuckerbergs, you know Holy mary passed to try and get this meta thing to dominate the Meta environment in the future and it's just throwing everything at it. And so they've pivoted And started to go through a big cost-cutting exercise. Sure. So should the meta share price rebound strongly? Yeah And it and it has because it was so depressed So But that's an extreme example, right? I mean tech Yeah, they're going through cost-cutting realms, but there's most tech company stocks weren't as depressed as matters so The theory there should be less of a rebound sort of opportunity which is another reason why I think this NASDAQ rally Perhaps can't go much further, but Okay, well, let's let's two more stories quickly to wrap things up So sticking with the banking sector first You had a chap called Sergio Amati Got pulled back into the fray, which is credit suice Um, so maybe perhaps a little bit of background About our dear Sergio Yeah, much about this guy. Well, he's You know, he's the kind of super experienced excuse me safe pair of hands Like we need heavy weights At this moment because UBS us as a bank we've just taken on credit suice in this fire sale We've now got a bank that's the fourth biggest in the world. It's got 120,000 employees It's got five trillion dollars under management you know This is maybe one of the most important moments in the In UBS is 161 year history 2023 and 2024 if the deal gets done, I would say it's going to be A super super really important moment in their history right now the guy they had in charge Amos Was quite fresh It was got quite a fresh new boy on the block He came in replacing Amati in late 2020 They got him from the Dutch bank. I and G Which is a much much much smaller bank For sure and secondly I and G didn't you know, they don't do Like UBS is two main business lines or investment banking and wealth management And I and G don't really do those. So it was like, well, okay when he did come in in 2020 it was like Not sure that's a great fit But UBS have been doing fine, right? So I think he was proving the doubters wrong But Axel Weber was the chairman of UBS Not he's not now, but he was when hammers was signed in 2020 and the idea was that he'd come in Under a strategy of cutting costs and developing a stronger digital strategy, right and and you know So there was always question marks about hammers and keller Who's now the UBS chairman? basically the story goes That keller was you know, they there was a conference call A hastily arranged conference call, you know in the middle of the night during this credit swiss crisis And keller was watching hammers Field questions from analysts And basically not doing a very good job I think the word was he was fumbling questions from analysts And I think at that point keller was like, oh my god This guy is this guy's not our guy But what will now be one of the most important moments in our history? So we immediately got on the phone to a matty who had been the UBS chief executive for nine years before Hammers came in and it was like we need this guy back We need a heavy weight here to come and step in and apparently they went out for dinner The next night and the deal was signed So god knows what the money money's involved in Sergio So yeah, it's fun. It makes sense. I mean, I think I think it is a You know, this is what chairmans are for, you know, it's making the big calls at the right times being brave and you know, recognizing Probably a change is needed and then having the balls to just You know immediately execute it Yeah, and his background when I was reading at the time Was at that point of when he came in in that nine-year position that he held at UBS restructuring Pivoting business strategy and restructuring was getting rid of investment banking Right Dealing as well with a lot of litigation at the time as well Which is that's all coming down the pipe for sure. Oh, yeah So, yeah, he's kind of it's a well trodden path for him, but so look, let's let's go over to apple then and talk the final one They've kind of finally I guess come out and introduced apple pay later a bit late to the game or just And have stability is going to happen. So does it make a great deal of difference? Um Late to the game would be an understatement. I mean, we've been talking we did a podcast Maybe one of our first ever ones, I think Was about apple and they just bought I can't even remember the details now, but they bought a uk Company and I can't remember the name of it now, but it was very much in the You know the the kind of buy now pay later sort of Space and it was like, ah, okay Apple are coming. Okay. They are coming into this little sector the buy now pay later sector And they are going to smash it up and it was like then The months went by and it was like well, where are they? And so, yeah, I don't know why I'm not sure why it's taken so long Who'd credit kudos? Right. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, the uk lot So, yeah, it's that that's the first thing to say it's like about time Um, and I don't know the details why it's taken so long But look, it's here now. I guess and the You know the the big problem that the clowners of this world have is Yeah, the apple The apple ecosystem is a monster and um If I was the climate dude You know your valuations at 6.7 billion now having been at 46 I mean, what's it going to be in 12 months time or 24 months time when apple just Ride rough shot all over and yeah to give it a bit of um context the service will be embedded in the iPhone operating system Which accounts for more than 50 percent of smartphones in the united states of america Yeah So it's like just like that Update bang bang in your hand switch now 50 percent of all smartphones in america ready to roll Yeah, so I don't know how you compete with well, obviously clarner We don't have a platform like apples and you know, they're reliant on other people's platforms um Yeah, I mean I would fear for these these these these kind of other providers for sure That's it. You know just invest in the monopoly that are big tech and you you do all right in the long run Well, I don't know about like this by now play pay later thing, right? Oh, there's really been a function of The zero interest rate environment right that that's really where it's been born out of where a company can actually generate a profit of Free lending right it's it's like by now pay later zero percent interest But of course they make their money by late Payments, you know, they're they're relying on people over stretching Buying stuff. They've got no right to buy Oh, yeah, I'll buy it. You know, I don't have to worry about paying for it until later and then later arrives and oh I don't have the money and then right the interest rates on late payments are like super Punitive and so this is kind of how they make their money, right? But yeah, this is when the cost of money was at zero But I don't know the cost of money's obviously gone up sharply So that's going to squeeze their margins. Maybe that's why apple delayed Maybe it was just that macro view and the interest rate psych hiking cycle. I don't know. Maybe that was the reason but Well, I was a bit disappointed because um I saw those I saw that Collection of Michael Jordan trainers going on at Sotheby's this weekend The dynasty what I can only get by now pay later a thousand bucks. I need five million. Come on The dynasty collection Oh You're all over that would go right there. So hang on. What was it? It was the air seals Lighting These are shoes that the the man himself has worn he wore In the final game of the of the championship of everyone that he won from 1991 through to 1998 It's the final game pet shoe Yeah from each of his winning championships Wow So that's six sheet. That's kind of it. I didn't realize it was the shoes from the final game of each of the championship winning That's going to be more than five million Isn't it great records? That's what they're saying the the the highest selling shoe at the moment as a single shoe. I think it was 1.8 million which was Kanye's first Kind of before yeezy became yeezy's this was like the prototype that nike had done for him and it was the first time that nike pivoted from um sports star to musician with their own line of shoe And and you know the people who bought it. We're going to take the shoe and have digital fractional ownership Right via nfts Yeah, here we go um Now that you've said that 1.8 million dollars. I reckon these six Because it's six pairs here So they're all they're all going to be more than a million, right? This is going to be this could hit 10 million, right? You're gonna have to move a few things about to get to that. Yeah, right. I'm gonna have to sell my gold It's gold's definitely not going above 2000. That's it margin call. I need to buy these sneakers Cool. All right. We'll wrap it up Thanks as ever for listening. Thanks peers and everyone have a Well, we're not actually going to have an episode next week. It's Easter of course Yeah, I wish everyone a great long Easter break and we'll be back thereafter. So take care of all. Have a good one