 So committee, without incident today, we're going to call this committee. Yeah, this committee to order the. We're going to start this is our first walk through or refresher. We sent out a lot of money and a lot of places. Back in June. And I asked commissioner Tierney. And I think clay, the kind of lettuce brief us. I think we've all gotten a document, but give us a briefing. And then. I think I saw a note. Just a few minutes ago, faith saying we had gotten a man, a map. Cause I was interested in seeing if we could. Kind of visualize when we're letting out these. Grants. Where we're picking up. The, the extended lines so that we know. We know if we've got any big holes or where we might need to refocus. So. Senator coming. The material is on the website and commissioner Tierney and clay will probably call those documents up. Clay. I've made a call host so you can share your screen. Commissioner, the floor is yours. Thank you, Madam chair. And I hope clay realizes that he's responsible for putting the docs on the screen. I challenged with these things and clay, if you would be so good as to pull up the, the round one of the connectivity initiative grant map, that would be helpful. I think that is, that is on the. That's the map. Okay. Yeah. It's, it's the mint green one with the chocolate chips on it. I, I did look very, uh, advertise a advertising. It did. Yeah. So, um, the madam chair, you may recall that somewhere toward mid. August, I think, uh, August 18 or thereabouts. I provided a memo to, um, the chairs of Senate approach, house approach and Senate finance and, uh, house energy technology, uh, and, um, uh, uh, pursuant to act one 37 that updated the legislature on where we were with the allocation of the funds that have been appropriated to the department. Um, purposes of care act administration. And what I was going to do is go through that memo and just update you on those items. I am not sure whether the rest of the committee members have it. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if it's because of my overview, but I just wanted you to be aware that the memo exists. If you want a greater detail, uh, descriptive detail of the things that I'm about to cover. So I've shared everything with the committee. Was this the list of grants that went out? Uh, this is the, the August 18 memo that on page one is a snapshot of, um, the funding allocation and then, uh, I think I have shared that, but if not, we will, we will share it. And, uh, something that I'd like to highlight for the committee is that of the, um, 17,000, 433,500 dollars that were appropriated under, uh, each 966 for, uh, connectivity purposes, there's an odd sum of 433,000 that is still out there. And that the department has not allocated to any one program yet. It's a little bit of, um, you know, wiggle room money, if you will. And there are some uses that are coming into view that, uh, the committee may want to consider. Uh, one of them is whether you want to put additional money toward wifi hotspots. And another one is something that I think you folks were discussing on Tuesday that had to do with, um, um, an initiative that frankly I'm not aware of, but if money is needed, this is a place where you might get the money, which, uh, chaircomings were, I think, um, school pods. That's going to, yeah, that the daycare. Yeah. Cards are going up. I've asked for a map of those. I have not seen it yet. And I, I, I heard your point about, you know, why aren't the schools paying for, uh, the $150 or participation for you or the like? I don't know any details, but I just wanted to make you aware that there, there is this, uh, little bit of money hanging out that we, we also could put toward, um, making sure that every single communications union district gets a $100,000 planning grant because we were just a little short on those funds or we think we may be a little short. And then as I said, um, there is still in my view some utility in putting money toward a wifi hotspots and there we do have a list of communities that, uh, could very much benefit from, um, such, uh, infrastructure. So anyway, uh, to, to move down to, um, the get Vermont TERS connected now initiative, which was the first item under, um, H 966, um, we, we combined that, um, program with our general connectivity initiative, um, under H 966 and appropriated or allocated $12 million of the monies that you folks appropriated to us for this purpose. Um, we also included get Vermonters connected now in the RFP that we put out for connectivity initiative, um, grants. The particulars of get Vermonters connected now, um, are that that money is earmarked to help lay down conduit in places, such underground conduit in places such as low income, uh, neighborhoods, uh, mobile parks and the like, uh, so that they can get hooked up. And I'm pleased to highlight for you that, um, that EC five or received, um, a grant in the first round of the connectivity initiative awards last week, uh, for that purpose. Um, the next item on the list would be in the line extension program that you've been very interested in in the past. Um, I'm going to try to do this as, as adroitly as I can. You see the, the mint chocolate chip map. And, uh, what that tells you is the distribution of the grants that we announced in the first round of the connectivity initiative last week. What I'd like to do. Okay. So these are showing us the new grants. This is the first round. That's correct. Okay. And one area that I'm particularly proud of is up in the northeast kingdom, um, toward the, you know, the upper right of the, the screen, uh, that cluster is the kingdom east project that, um, first got going last spring. It's the collaboration between, um, um, the cloud alliance and, uh, any K, um, wireless and New England wireless and Velco and, um, Vermont public, uh, television and a variety of other stakeholders to make that, uh, particular project happen in the school district where they had a pretty, um, pronounced need for students to get connectivity. It's a wireless project. Um, but I think it's a perfect example of, um, of why it was a good idea to, to try to maintain a little bit of, um, margin in this program for technologies other than fiber. Uh, Clay, if you could, uh, put up the map, the, what I call the smallpox map. The smallpox map while we're waiting for it to show. I'm with colors. Yeah. I'm sorry. Do you mind just showing, uh, I'm not able to see Bennington County that well when you're. Forgive me. Yes. That happens. No. And it is, I, you know, I, quoting back what you said the other day, it's the most important county. So you want to make sure that. You don't miss it. It seems like we stumbled that way last spring. And here we are stumbling again, but there you go. So this is the smallpox map. And I'm drawing your attention to it now is that this represents our mapping of all of these student addresses that we have been able to confirm through our outreach for this data over the course of the spring and the summer. Um, we received 46,523 data points through a variety of outreach projects. We had to vet and scrub that data for inconsistencies to find duplicates. There were some inaccuracies. For instance, people who thought they have no access to broadband, but in fact did have options that they perhaps weren't aware of. So my understanding is that our 46,000 data points distilled down to 7,195 known data points for student addresses. And that's what you see on this map here. And I wanted to bring that out because I know you've been very interested in the combination of the connectivity initiative and the line extension program. And how we are reaching students. I don't think we have the ability to put both maps side by side, the smallpox on the, or maybe I should call it the measles and the chocolate chip map, the mint chocolate chip map. But if you put them side by side, that will give you some idea of how much ground we've picked up in the first round of connectivity initiative grants. And then it also shows that there are areas where we need to, to focus on the second and third rounds to ensure some equity and distribution. So that's what we're looking for. And I think that's a good point. May I ask a question? Point. Commissioner, as I look at the map and I see the various points. And some say. Unserved. Some say serve for one, for example, the yellow. And I look at Franklin. For example. And there's lots of yellow there indicating that they're served at four one. They're served by Franklin telephone. And there is availability of higher bandwidth. It's simply that not everybody is taking it. Am I misunderstanding that situation? Can I ask. Yeah, go ahead. That, I mean, that's one issue that's not captured in our map. Franklin telephone doesn't have. 25 three or better service to all of its service territory. As far as telephone companies go. They've been really good about building out fiber to the home. But they don't have it in their, in the entirety of their network. So there are areas that. Looks like the entire town. If I look at it based on the number of dots on the map. Don't have. Service better than for one. There's very, you know, the map is covered with dots. And I'm just wondering, does that match the reality? Because what I hear from Franklin telephone. Is that it has the higher bandwidth available, but people simply aren't buying it. It's an optional choice. Well, we were mapping what's available. Now what people are buying, but I think, I think one of the problems visually is that. We're trying to put people's houses on a statewide map and fit it on eight and a half by 11 sheet of paper. So it looks. You know, I think it's, you know, I think it's. Unserved when in fact, if you zoomed in on Franklin, you would see that. Franklin probably has 60 or 70%. You know, fiber penetration. And it's in its service territory. And what they probably have our experiencing is an hour or ring. Outside the village center. That are going on served. I think that there are, is there statistical information available. That looks, for example, in a town by town basis. What the availability is or lack of availability in each town. And that we then compare that to population. Because I would think you might see something very, very different. The higher the population. I think would skew those numbers. The population density would skew the map. And this could be quite misleading. I don't know if that's clear enough, Senator. I think that's. That's an analysis that would be very good to undertake. I wonder if I'm fully understanding the. The difference between this map and what you're asking. So just to be clear. This map is intended to depict the. Pinpoint addresses that we have harvested. As a result of outreach to identify. The resources that qualify for cares act funding. Students, telehealth. And remote workers. Emphasis on students. And this map is specifically about students. So I think that what you can get out of this map is a sense of. Where in the aggregate students are clustered. That we're trying to reach through the programs that are available. And that is what we're going to do. And we're going to move on to the care's act. And what I hear you asking about. Is a larger planning question that I think is a very good question. That bears looking into, because it gets to another issue about policy, which is what is the focus of. Of what we're aiming for and the resources. When you look at consumer. And I think that's a very good question. I think that's a 100% fiber build up and down. So. There are two separate issues, but as I look at the dots on the map, I, the first way I asked for it, where did that data come from? And how was it validated? So I'll ask clay to speak a little bit to that. But in general, where the data came from is the outreach efforts that the department undertook the outreach efforts that came from. So I think that's a good deal of a very helpful. Counter. Assess or not counter, but. From the print, the superintendent's associations, once, once we really, once it became clear that they were actually going to be resources available under the cares act. To do some connectivity work. The, the principles associations really started coming back to us with data that we could use for this mapping purpose. And so we were able to do the, the validity of it. If you will. It underwent a scrubbing in my shop where we were comparing datas. Against our existing records and also we had to compare a variety of different reports from different sources. To ensure there weren't duplicates in the like. Does that answer your question? Yeah. Yeah. I'm just a general. Discomfort with data quality. I look at this incidence in Franklin and I'm largely told by Franklin telephone that services generally available throughout. The entire town of Franklin. Certainly higher than four one, but if I look at this map, it shows me just the opposite. On the other hand, I look at a town like Granville. And it shows me one person in all of Granville. And it shows me one person who doesn't have it in Granville. You know, is notoriously poor in terms of internet availability. So I would, I would suggest. That we perhaps follow up with you then in order to, to figure out where we need to close the gaps in, in understanding here. As I said, these, these points here are specific addresses that have been called from a survey process. I'm not sure if that's the right answer. I'm not sure if that's the right answer. Clay will set me straight, but I don't think that the data came from Franklin telephone. It came from, from folks who were soft reporting that they don't have. Service or service at a certain level. Or it came from a superintendent's tenants or principals who are reporting on. What they knew to be true in their school districts. And all I can say is that go ahead. We can get you the data for Franklin. I think it comes down to an issue of just how it's visually represented. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the, yeah, I mean. One yellow dot here is probably not representative of the square mileage that it appears to cover. But yeah, Senator Brock has a question that I think is well worth chasing the ground. Yeah, because as I look at other towns that are larger that have one dot in the entire town, and it's hard for me to believe that there's only one place in Hancock, one place in Granville, for example, that doesn't have proper internet coverage. And there are a number of other towns that fall in that category. That I can understand that impression very easily. And I think that there's only one student or one potential person who needs medical. And so I think that the quality of all of these towns, again, is just, just hard to understand. And the data may be perfectly okay. And it may be our, our understanding, but you know, as I try to apply a sanity check to it, I come up with problems. No, I, well, I mean, if you're checking my sanity, I understand. But just to take the example of Granby, for instance, so there are three dots in there. And to your point, hard to believe there are only three dots in there. And I think that's, I think what we're bumping up against are the limitations of either self-reporting or what a school district knows about its own population. Or possibly that school district's chosen level of engagement in this data collection process. Well, that was an issue that raised, I think, a lot of times you spoke either before this committee or before J-Talk is that you were having difficulty getting information from some districts and there was an inconsistent data collection effort. Yeah, that's certainly true. We don't necessarily have every district represented here and districts did present us with data in different methods. Some districts at our request. Some districts just provided us with the entire list of of their student addresses. Whatever it was at the superintendent's office used for mailing, they would provide. I think in total we got about 44,000 different data points that we've looked at. This just represents the addresses that do not have 25 or 30,000, but we don't have across the board from every school district representation. Other school districts, especially the smaller ones, knew the eight students or whatever that didn't have broadband that they were really focused on and some of them, that's what they reported was the eight or nine addresses. And then we have some survey data in here where people were self-reporting. And so that might explain Hancock and Grandville. Maybe those school districts didn't supply us with data, but there were folks there that took the survey and self-reported. So it's not perfect. And I wouldn't sit here and tell you that it's perfect data. This is something we're undertaking in tandem with the four other broadband programs we're trying to stand up. And it's far better to have what we have and have nothing at all, but there's certainly always room for improvement. Is it fair to say that this is a work in progress? Oh, most certainly. We asked the school districts to start, you know, telling us where they had pockets of students in hopes we could focus our money there. We have the issue of what's running by the property and what the family can afford or chooses to hook up to. I think the important one might be when the chocolate chip gets hooked up and we can take an eraser and start erasing some of these red and yellow and green dots. That's when we'll know where we're making progress. And as more information comes in, this would probably be a lot more helpful if we sat down and we could look at it either school, you know, supervised reunion by supervised reunion town by town would definitely be the, and someday hopefully we can get to that level. But, because that would make the dots somewhat more spread out and give us a better idea of, you know, is it all of downtown or is that in a small town reflecting, you know, the hills that go straight up with two houses on them. But they get compact, but this would be more of a comparative discussion in an imperfect data set. I appreciate those remarks, Chairman Cummings, Chair Cummings, because I was just reflecting back on where we were in March when we were, Yeah, the world. Yeah, the good news was we had all this money and the bad news was we were waiting and waiting and waiting from the U.S. Treasury Department for guidance on how we could use it. And in some sense that we were going to need to stand up something for students if they were going to be ordered home. And this committee at that time very correctly called out that there was no good way to get that data you asked for it. And we had to tell you that, you know, this kind of data is not recorded and would have to be collected. And the early efforts to do so. I think suffered a little bit because it wasn't clear that there were going to be resources and school districts were having to make choices about where to put their attention at that point. But as I said earlier, once it became clear in June that there was significant momentum toward actually putting resources for connectivity for students and telehealth and the like on the table. Then we did start getting data and that has been very, I think helpful in informing our ability to allocate these grants monies equitably. I would also just point out that the chocolate chip map represents the first tranche of the 12 million for this program. So there are still two more rounds to be awarded. And again, if you go to the smallpox map, that is a tool that we're able to use as a check to say, okay, are there pockets where we haven't been able to do anything and can we do something so that there's a certain amount of fairness here. So the tools are not perfect, but when you consider that we had nothing in March, I think a lot of good work has been done. And it does, of course, bear improvement. There's no question about that, of course. So if it's, if it's all right with you, I'm going to return to updating you on the programs that we have. I was going to say, you might check with the schools on whatever these childcare pods are. Yes. Because for schools, some schools are going five days remote and there's got to be kids in those towns that are going to be in childcare for those five days and making sure that those pods and they were talking about allowing home providers, home daycare providers, extended hours. And some of them may not have or may not be able to afford internet. But if the kids are going to be there two days a week, because that's when the school is doing remote, they'll need it. And I've asked for a map, but making sure that as many kids as we can have access to internet. Yeah. May I ask how you found out about that so I can follow up? There's the department of education. The money went through joint fiscal. And there was testimony to a combination, but I don't know how it's human resources and Senate health and welfare on Tuesday, whatever our first day was this week. All right, I'll follow up on that. Sounds good. Okay. So to just return briefly to the line extension program. That program was launched in at the end of July. And so far we have 163. Applications 39 of which have been approved. For a total of 80,000 and change. Committed to that program out of $2 million. I think the momentum will pick up in that program. But come September 15 and that time period, I think you start running up against realities that if the line extension replication isn't in progress, it's unlikely to get built this year. So what's the level of the. The extension is that 25 three or is that fiber? It's both you provided for both an H five and H. 966. So it's open to cable extensions 25 three, but also to fiber and EC fiber in fact has signed on to do some of these extensions. I think also Clay correct me if I'm wrong. Yes. So you are actually doing this field shop playing. Ballet. Also doing work in this area. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Interesting thing that happened this week. In that program, there's actually a neighborhood of 13 people in Waterbury. Who are proceeding under this program. So what you have is the effect of a small connectivity great multiplying effect in that area. The next program would be the Connectivity Response Temporary Lifeline Program, which is something that apartments stood up with some of the discretion that you gave us with the money you appropriated. This is going to be a $20 per month subsidy for connectivity for as long as we have funds for it. Obviously, it can only go through the end of the year. And I don't mind saying that Senator Pearson's criticism of that has been in my ear the entire time, because I do think that there is an argument to be made that it's a little weak to offer somebody help for such a short period of time only to take it away. But I've had to tell myself that a lot with these programs that we are focused on an emergency. We are trying to help people in an emergency. And there are so many people in the state who are hurting that I think every little bit helps. And this is a good example of it because much of our programmatic focus has been on getting infrastructure built. But as you well know, great if you have infrastructure, if you can't afford it, what's the point? So this is one program that's directed at that issue. Another part that a companion to this that isn't did not originate in the connectivity space that but that was part of your appropriation last spring was the arrearages program that we've been standing up. The arrearages program is not limited to just electricity and also goes to telephone companies. And so folks who are amassing arrearages during the moratorium and who are at risk of disconnection when the moratorium is lifted at the end of September, unless it's extended by the PUC, those folks can get help on those arrearages on their telephone bills. And that complements this broadband subsidy. Clay, I just don't recall, can you help me out? Does the arrearage also go to broadband? Because I think it does, but I'm not sure. The arrearage program doesn't cover broadband. Okay, temporary broadband subsidy covers broadband. Okay, thank you. That's how it covers telephone. Yeah, okay. Got all right, right, because broadband isn't jurisdictional to the PUC. That's correct. And the limitations on the arrearage program and the $8 million appropriation were that it could only go to companies who are subject to the the order imposing the moratorium on disconnects. I'm sorry I had to make you go through that curly queue, but there's an awful lot that I try to hold in my mind. And that's the only way to do it. So moving on, we spent quite a time already on the connectivity initiative. And I've discussed the two maps that I thought would be of interest to you. Rounds two and three, meaning the remaining $8 million are underway as we speak. We've run into a snag with round two in that the carriers who or some of the carriers who submitted grant applications gave us data address to Senator Brock's point that has proved to be in need of vetting and cleansing. And so we're doing that. And that has set us back a little on our schedule. But we are expecting to be able to do the scoring on round two next week. And to be able to share the proposed grant selections with the is it the CUDs clay? I think that's right. Within seven days of when we're able to finish the scoring. We think round three will go even faster than round two is going because the headline here is that we appropriated $12 million for this work. But in the first round alone, there were already $23 million worth of proposed projects. And we have new applicants in round two as well. So the program is clearly oversubscribed. But in a way, it's good news because you know that every every dollar is going to be dispersed for these projects. The next item would be the Community Resilience Program. These are the CUD planning grants that you authorized. And this program, Madam Chair, I just want to bring to your attention. 800,000 was appropriated. I think we have a third map here that shows you how the CUDs have proliferated over the course of this year. And my memory is that we've had a couple more form since you folks adjourned on July 1st. And so we do have a map. I beg your pardon. I think we did submit a map to you that shows you the CUD status as of now. In any case, the bottom line here is that the 800,000 may be a little short if we're to give every CUD a planning grant. And so that may be yet another area where we could use some of the $433,000 that has not yet been allocated to these programs, which is a long way of saying it would be helpful to get a little more flexibility. Last spring, I think Senator Brock and Senator Pearson were thinking ahead that it would be good to give us some flexibility and how we appropriate or allocate the dollars between the line extension program and the connectivity initiative program. And I think it would be helpful if there were a little more language that makes clear that the department has some leeway with the $433,000. It's not perfectly clear right now. Another item here, I think faith was good enough to also post to your website a report that I received from Lauren Glendavidian about the Vermont Access Networks activities. There was $466,500 allocated for the pegs under H-966. And Lauren Glend advised me yesterday that I will be getting an invoice very shortly that will account for 58% of the expenditure or proposed expenditure of this money, which is to say they've they've done these activities and now they need to draw down the money to pay themselves for it. What they've been doing through peg access is supporting so much of the public square life that's been happening virtually since the pandemic set in. So town meetings or board meetings, election proceedings or related to that have all been covered by peg access groups and have proved to be a very robust way in which people have been able to continue to participate in these vital public functions from their homes as opposed to congregating. So I commend pegs work for what they've been doing. That brings me to the end of the update in that detailed memo, except to say that we also have the electric ararages program, which is a separate appropriation from the 17 million that you folks gave us for connectivity. That's the eight million dollar eight million dollar appropriation. If I had a magic wand and there were no limits, I would be asking for 20 million for that program. And based on the analysis that we've done in my shop, there's a credible basis to think that at the end of the day, a rare just may amount to 30 or $50 million. So the thing the thing to remember about this program is that where consumers are amassing ararages during the pandemic and they've been protected by the moratorium. When the moratorium is lifted absent the kind of resources that you folks have put toward this problem. Folks would be looking at repayment schedules and so forth, which may yet come to pass because the pandemic isn't over. For a critical group of these people, they may struggle to pay their electric bill. We, as you well know, have food shortages in the state and continuing employment issues and the like. And so this program is supporting people there and it protects their credit ratings because I'm sure you recall that if you become delinquent on your your electric bill and push come to shove or not able to to pay what you own the company. There's a report filed and that's a much more damaging impact. And frankly, it was one of the chief motivators behind our trying to stand this program up. So what I like about this program is it has been very well thought through. My deputy Riley Allen was not able to join us today because he has exhausted himself with our team of putting this together. So he's getting a little bit of R&R today. But if you wanted to get into the weeds of it, he would be the person for you to speak with. And it's a very, I think it's a very solidly built program so that if there is more money to put into it, that's a pretty safe bet for getting help to the people who are targeted by the CARES money. We are in what's called Phase Two of testing right now, which is making sure that the utilities who at least in the electric space are acting as a check on how much is owed are now testing our portals and the mechanisms that have been devised for the flow of information to make sure that they verify what the consumers says the rearage is. And once that is done, which I expect to be by the end of the month, we will then be in the position to start paying down the rearage balances. The thing to note about this program is that in the electric space, the money does not go directly to the rate payer, but rather the department pays it on behalf of the rate payer. Unfortunately, in the cable space, we've not been able to replicate that mechanism. The cable company Comcast, principally, for reasons that you would really have to ask them about, have chosen not to participate in that mechanism. So in that instance, we are going to be making payments directly to consumers, and it will be on their personal responsibility to use that money to pay down the cable bill. I would note that that is actually the the first the most immediate way in which you would interpret the Treasury guidelines anyway. The Treasury guidelines contemplate direct payments being made to people. But we were trying to put a check on the process and we succeeded in doing that in the electric space, but not the cable space. That is all I have on the updates of the programs. I'm happy to send it back to you, Madam Chair, for for questions from the committee. But there's just one thing I'd like to say before I do, which is I have to draw your attention to how hard and how well my staff has been working to stand up these programs in a very short period of time, some of which has had to be engineered from scratch. They're doing it and they're doing it well. I also just want to say to you, it has been enormously rewarding to have collaborated with you as we have in getting H966 passed and signed into law. And administering it as we are notwithstanding that there are hiccups along the way, it has proved to be a solid march toward progress. And I think a lot of that is owing to the very careful thought that went into promulgating that law to begin with. So your hard work has paid dividends. And I'm hopeful that our hard work will too. So it's back to you, Madam Chair. Questions, Senator McDonald. The White River Valley Herald had a story that I guess I'm not going to be able to put it up here. No, because it keeps disappearing into the cows. Well, when we were working in June, we pushed the Commissioner for a commitment to where high speed was available in neighborhoods to concentrate on connecting. And we pushed her to a commitment to where high speed was not available to concentrate on moving high speed out into those areas. And I'm pleased to see that the three areas of work with funding the planning for the CUDs, pushing fiber out in places where it doesn't exist, and connecting where it does have all seemed to be being carried out. And it's gratifying to see that what we discussed in the commitment that was made in June is being followed. So thank you. You should journalize those remarks. They're rare, Madam Chair. I am sitting here. I am flabbergasted. I've been working with Senator McDonald for 20 years, and I know how hard it is to earn that praise. So thank you, sir. Appreciate that. And I will pass that on to my staff because they certainly have been using their chops to get it done. And you are very clear all of you and what you are hoping for and expecting. Like many states are way behind where we should be. I think the barrier has always been dollars. And suddenly we were thrown into a predicament where we didn't have an option. And I think everyone has been just scrambling very quickly to get this. That's a really good point, Madam Chair, and especially on the arerages program, I've been reflecting a great deal on that. And what I've come to realize is that is an area where Vermont had a real advantage by being so small because we're able to take $8 million, 20 in my dreams, and use it to get effect that way. You probably couldn't do that in Massachusetts because you just have so much bigger population and so many more utilities. But yeah, it's been impressive what the state's been able to do. Also gives us another living necessity we need to think about as we look at minimum wages and what people need right now. So broadband is not all for playing video games. That's an interesting observation because I remember when we were drafting the emergency broadband action plan last spring, I was really trying to distill the essence of what the imperative was under the pandemic. And, you know, it wasn't brilliant writing, but it was a distillation of thinking. And it got on paper. And now it's like you can't pick up a newspaper or magazine and not see people saying exactly the same thing that this is not, you know, fun and games is a necessity. And I for one am very hopeful that that will translate to serious momentum at the federal level. A few things we're going to very helpful. On both that, I think we found out that both broadband childcare are economic necessities and we need to move forward. I always wondered how my grandmother who worked for the WPA could afford somebody to come in and watch her kids until Rebecca Holcomb said that was included as part of the New Deal. How interesting. I wonder if that was Eleanor Roosevelt making herself felt. It may have been, but I thought that's as Perkins. Yeah, that that was that that was part of it. So I actually heard childcare referred to as infrastructure the other day. And I thought, finally, somebody gets it. That's that's exactly what it is. So now all we gotta do is pay for it. So Clay, have you got anything to add to this? I've got documents under you, but I think the commissioner stole all your thunder, except one called a priorities location. Yeah, that's a spreadsheet that informs the the map that what June calls the small box map. So it provides you with the numbers from each school. Oh, so that's the numbers in the town that correspond to the small box of the map. And what I'll do, so that might be helpful to Senator Brock, if he wants to go check Franklin out. Right. And what I'll do is I'll get the numbers specific for Franklin. We probably should be able to make a map of Franklin to check and share with the committee. And it might, you know, as we go, it would be good to know as we are putting all kinds of effort into fiber or higher speeds. If people I mean, right now we're we're funding hookups and arrearages and but at some point, in order to keep this network functioning, people are going to have to be able to afford the hookups. And I'm not sure where we go with that. But that's, that's the reality. So okay, questions, committee, discussion, Senator McDonald. When I spoke previously, it was about fiber. And I understand that there are other areas of the state that are electing to use pole attachments or other forms of broadcasting broadband. And I was wondering, that's not my air hint, but I was wondering what the success has been in moving those projects forward. So if you look at the chocolate chip map, I think you'll see in the northeast corner is that cluster of the Kingdom East School District. And that's I think an example of what you're talking about a wireless solution. And, you know, that success is like all the other projects, we've selected it for a grant. They have a design in mind. And we have made a condition of our grants that you have to demonstrate that you're actually delivering what you say you're going to deliver before you see dollars for the project. That is one project, though, where we may need to deviate because those folks likely will need capital funds at the outset in order to actually build the project. So it's early days to tell you what the success rate is. What I can speak to is that we've been successful in making a mix, at least in the first round. And having it minimize conflict, it hasn't been completely conflict free, there are some instances where I think some of the CUDs are appropriately concerned for the impact on their business case. But the process of vetting that and having dialogue about it, I think it's been robust and healthy. And I continue to be optimistic about it. I'm not sure, Senator, that I'm giving you full satisfaction on your question. But what I am trying to get across is that I can't tell you yet how successful projects are, but I can say that we are getting good projects that have a better than average chance of success. Me, perhaps Senator Rockwood, I heard some concerns that having approval of the people who would do the work has been problematic. And maybe there's some merit to that, or there isn't. Approval of the, in approval of which people? Of contractors, or who would do it, or what hoops do they have to jump through to actually be permitted to install what is already on them, which is now on the planning books? Yep. I don't have any firsthand knowledge, but I can't say I'm surprised to hear that. And it's the kind of thing that I'm learning that we have to keep pushing. Solutions will come. I don't know if Clay can give you greater detail on that or not. But it's no question that we're struggling with, not we, the department, but the endeavor is struggling with realities like there is a limit to how much fiber is available. There's a limit to how many laptops are available for students. There's a limit to how many licensed poll workers. There are trucks that can roll I think it was the licensed poll workers that was, and whether it was there were none of the workers are all gone south right now, whether their criteria for what was who could be licensed was Yeah, honors. Thank you. Yeah, well, it's a it's a real it's a real issue and a known risk. But I think the way to look at it is that we are going to pick up we are picking up ground and what we're doing, even if it's not optimal. And all you can do is push forward and have confidence that when people say they can get these projects done, they're going to get done. And if they don't get done, they don't get paid, except for that one project I was pointing out to you. But we I can remember having that discussion, especially when we were looking at the CUDs that Comcast may have the reserves to put the money in up front. Yeah, exactly. But the Northeast Kingdom fiber project probably doesn't and finding that balance. There's risk. And when this is a very short timeframe that Congress has given us, given that all the issues a year ago, we were dealing with with getting polls ready and getting no, no, I hear we've got, you know, difficulty getting fiber or I'm sure there's, you know, anyone that's ventured into a retail store knows that the shelves are not full in most places. There are shortages. I'm not sure what the cause is, but we are definitely not in the supply mode that we were a year ago. So dot, you know, just keeping track of the issues and learning as we go is probably all we can do at this point. And hopefully, I mean, the concerning thing is those kids are going back to school next week. And I'm not sure that the parents know where the kids are going when they're not in school. And I want to make sure that we've got at least the technology as much as we can into the the childcare centers, where if those kids are that's where they're going to be spending the days they're not in school. We need to make sure they're hooked up is the same as the kids homes. And then yeah, I mean, hotspots, most of the libraries, I don't think they're still doing pick up so you can't you can sit in your car. But that really is an ideal if you're trying to teach a class or you know, learn a lesson. And actually, if it's, you know, five degrees out. Yeah. And you know, then there's global warming and keeping your car running, you know, it seems like we're going to if this is going to go on into the winter, and there's a good chance it will, we're going to need to think about maybe opening the library and having one kid per table with a hot spot in there, or maybe the auditorium with some dividers. I mean, we're going to have to make sure that we can get kids or telemedicine. I don't know how you do telemedicine from your car. I'm still trying to figure out how you do teledentistry, but currently they do. I'm I guess that I could put my phone in my mouth and you could say I yep, you have an abscess, but they do teledentistry. So I think it would be good. I think if at some point, is these chocolate chips start to come online or even now, if we could start to take off some of the small pox and clear up that complexion, we could start, we could have two maps and say, OK, this is this is where we've got a contract. This whole section is coming off. It would at least then we could say, all right, but there's still five or six in an outlying area that we aren't reaching. And we're going to bring them all down to the fire station or wherever and have them do their homework in a hot spot. Well, we can certainly work with that and see what we can do in the mapping arena. I'll have to beg just a little bit of indulgence here, because, you know, the people who work in my shop have lives as well. Really? They have kids going back to school. That sort of thing. Yeah. So there's there are limitations, but that I don't mean to say we can't do it. I just mean to say it may be a timing issue. Oh, yeah. No, I'm not talking about tomorrow. But as we start to make progress. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no, you need to see progress. Absolutely. I mean, one of my favorite ways of looking at this is in just the the first round of connectivity alone. The project's total to five thousand eight hundred forty two addresses that are eligible that will be affected by the project. That isn't, you know, it's not to say that we have five thousand eight hundred and forty two for game. My eyes are getting strained from all the work. But it means that that's who we're reaching with these projects. And when you think that we started out with seventy thousand addresses, right, that's five thousand eight hundred forty two. And that's just the first round. So we're very likely to hit at least ten percent of the problem. And considering that this was not on our radar screen this time last year, I think that's something that we can celebrate. Yeah, it's progress that hopefully there will be another round. Yeah, it'll be hopefully they will have a little bit more realistic time frames, especially with those of us in northern climates. But. You know, you said line cools. I heard that the trucks were seen going south yesterday. They are all on mutual support agreements and a large number of our utility workers are going to be headed down to Louisiana. And who knows where this storm is going to stop? May that this gets coming here, maybe Saturday, or some rain is. So we will have fewer utility workers for a while. And if the hurricane season stays the way it is, that is a factor. Yeah, I'm going to have to focus on we can, we can, we can. That's right. We will do the best we can. And when we can't get it to the home, we're going to have to do a better job of getting kids who don't have access at home to a spot where they have safety and access. I don't think I'm the only parent who's a little nervous about leaving a sixth grader at home. Unsupervised or seventh grader. And I think that that that that will get to be an issue. So we will see. OK, I'm going backwards. Where did I find my agenda? OK. Secretary French, you have joined us. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Welcome back. Thank you. And we've just been going through before, I guess I'll say, are there any questions for Commissioner Tierney or Clay before we leave? OK, Secretary, we have been looking at the aptly named chocolate mint chip map and the smallpox map. And we are all now seeing dots. But we understand that the schools have been doing what we asked and really some of them, at least, have been identifying addresses and areas where they have kids that can't get broadband. I know we had a presentation in two other committees this week on the childcare pods. And I had just suggested to the commissioner that you might want to coordinate with those, because some of them are going to be childcare homes, which may or may not have access to the level of broadband they'll need for kids to be there two, three, four, five days a week and doing their schoolwork. So that might be a further place to coordinate. But I will turn the floor over to you for what the Department of Education is looking at right now. Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, certainly, I think, you know, assisting school districts with, you know, responding to the data requests has been challenging for them, but we've been doing our best to help them. And I think it's been really helpful to have Department of Public Service take some leadership on that. From our perspective, their expertise has been invaluable and sort of pulling it all together for a more comprehensive view of the problem. I think I mentioned earlier, for the most part, you know, school districts and broadband, that conversation previously has been about building that infrastructure within the physical perimeter of their school buildings. So we never pre-COVID, ever contemplated school districts playing an active role in helping families connect to the internet or building out that infrastructure statewide. I think school districts have always functioned as sort of anchor institutions, if you will, in those plans. But, you know, they've done, I think, a pretty good job. It does some of the flaws in the data, I think, do point to the difficulties of, you know, verifying 911 addresses and so forth. And that's just the nature of a lot of the data that's in education. But, you know, I think, I think you're familiar, the CARES Act funding districts have been spending money on this issue locally all along, starting in the spring, you know, basically from a family by family basis and trying to, you know, help. And I've been working actively with Department of Public Service on sort of addressing those issues as they've emerged. As we've moved into the summer, now we're talking more about the CARES Act funding that's available. Districts certainly can pull down the CRF funding, which you General Assembly appropriated. So they have some funding there that can be reimbursed. They also have the what we call the ESSER money, the elementary secondary school emergency relief can be used as well. They the challenge of school districts in the funding, though, is they have a lot of competing interests for that funding, even in the area of technology. So I know districts are buying Chromebooks or trying to buy Chromebooks, because there's a real constraint in that supply chain right now, licensing. Talking about supply chains and shortages, that's one. Yeah, there's I've heard from districts, many districts had large skilled Chromebook deployments prior to COVID-19. But I know some in particular tried to jump in. I know Brandon, the school district in Brandon, Otter Valley, and particularly I hear from them often about their Chromebook were being delayed and delayed and delayed. So I know there's a constriction on that nationally and internationally. So districts who are hoping to buy them over the summer are really finding that to be difficult. I know districts, you know, once again, are using federal dollars for all kinds of aspects, buying hotspots for parents, you know, doing that kind of piece. But I think for the most part, you know, we're leveraging our federal dollars and the education dollars as best we can. You know, once again, it was never, I think, really contemplated that school districts would be an active player in building out larger public infrastructure. But as anchor institutions, I think they've they've they play an important role in securing the viability of that infrastructure. They've also been spending money on the content piece. And we have to we have state level federal dollars that we've been building out, you know, to make sure if you have the connectivity, what do you do with it? And that's that's an equally important consideration, because one usually drives the other. If you don't have a rationale for using the technology, it's hard to justify making the investment to get there. But, you know, one thing is related to the other, sort of a chicken egg kind of deal. But at any rate, I think, you know, what we're seeing so far it shouldn't be surprised anyone that the emergency has highlighted the need for broadband, more equal broadband for everyone. It's I think the telemedicine application of the education application of sort of driven that home that we need to think particularly rural states in our country really need to really think hard about making sure that every citizen has access to high speed Internet. So happy to I unfortunately miss Commissioner Terry's testimony, but happy to answer any questions or a further conversation topic. As well as we're working through the child care pods and it's difficult as these maps are, it would be helpful for me to see a map where we're planning to put child care. But also making sure that, you know, you're not spending just three hours after school, you're spending all day in the child care, you know, the home based child care or even some of the new pods that that making sure that they have adequate service and perhaps we need to start thinking about redirecting some funds in that area. And then hotspots. You can do something sitting in your car at five below zero. But homework is difficult and class is difficult. And maybe we should start thinking about places like the gymnasium or the auditorium or the library where we could space kids out but have them within the hotspot zone so that they could maybe have one person supervising them but or their parent, you know, whatever. But some ways so that hotspots are a little more user-friendly than sitting in your car. That's, you know, if you've got to drive 10 miles down to the local pharmacy parking lot to get your homework then maybe we could start improving that a little bit. Yeah, I think that's a very good conclusion. I think, you know, where we were in the spring where we, you know, we had no testing on the virus. We really didn't understand what we were getting ourselves into. So we had to take very strict and emergency type actions and close everything down. That's not the situation where now we're going to sort of inch our way towards reopening our schools as we're able to do that. And people grow confident that we can do that. I think it's we expect schools to reopen more. And if not for in-person instruction, we have, I think there'll be more schools, school facilities being used more broadly for care and certainly to leverage their broadband more generally. So I think there's a lot of opportunity for us to contemplate how to use facilities that we didn't have in the spring at all. So particularly as we get into colder weather, we had stories in the spring where people were pulled up outside of schools in the parking lot and running the car to get online, that kind of thing. My hope is that we don't have that situation in the fall because buildings will be available as long as we can maintain a high degree of suppression of the virus. We did miss the coldest months last year with this. So they will be with us again. OK, committee, any questions? I'm not seeing any. You should know, yeah, it's Friday afternoon. OK, well, thank you. Senator Pearson, did you ever? Yeah, I'm sorry if I missed it. I was out right at the beginning of your testimony, secretary, but did schools are they giving you any? You know, like, what's the ballpark of students that are going to struggle on remote days? Is it can you just help us understand that universe? Yeah, I think that's where, unfortunately, we fall back on sort of the anecdotal data. I do ask that question when I talk to superintendents. I'm going to pull up an email here to give you a sense of that. But I was talking the other day to Rutland City I think on Monday, you know, and that's a district because I worked in this this region in the Rutland area, a better part of my career for nine years. So I'm familiar with their tech. They're a district that never really had broad use of Chromebooks or other technology, and they've made those steps over the years. But talking with that superintendent, he felt very confident that they had an adequate access to not only Chromebooks, but also bandwidth, which I was a little surprised by, but he was said, you know, virtually, I think we have everyone covered. But I was talking with my colleague up in Kingdom Choice or excuse me, Kingdom East School District in Lindenville. And, you know, her situation is still challenging. But if you're familiar with that topography in that area, which I spent a better part of my career there as well, they're they're literally, you know, still down to that sort of buying hotspots for parents, that kind of issue. And I think she's looking at something like $45,000, but was doing some brainstorming. If we were to try to do something statewide, you know, in a hotspot area, you know, something around $2 million. But, you know, the challenge with the sort of the hotspot, on my understanding of a hotspot, it still needs to be connected to cell coverage at some point or you need to have that backhaul, if you will. So it isn't necessarily a solution unless we already have some infrastructure deployed. So I think, you know, that's the kind of thing you'll find across the state. You know, I know we found in our capital for a day visits, you know, we were, we'd go out certainly and in Reedsboro and places like that, they'd be like, you know, we need broadband. And then you go to Springfield and Newport, you know, cities that arguably, you know, don't are suffering from an economic development standpoint, but who have excellent broadband and see that widely deployed. But if I were to talk to you about the Newport School District, North Country, which is one of our largest in terms of geography, you know, if you go all the way over to Troy or up to Troy, then over to, you know, Charlestown, you know, there's huge differences in terms of internet access in some of those locations. So it's a mixed bag to say the least, you know, in those areas. Okay, so you're in a cabinet meeting and the governor says, secretary, how many of our kids are screwed on remote days? Is that the answer you give? I mean, we don't have the answer still. Well, we haven't tested this approach, you know, since the spring. So a lot has happened since the spring, firstly. But if I were to answer that question inside the perimeter of the school, I would say if kids were in their buildings, as they potentially will be in the fall, all kids will have access to internet. So the chair's question, can kids be in the building on days when they're not doing in-person instruction? It varies. But to what extent do kids have access at home or not or adequate access at home? That's still an open question. And I think we get to the adequate question pretty quickly, particularly with teachers who would say, yeah, I have access to internet, but do I have adequate access to internet to do remote learning? That's another question. I've heard quite a few people that, well, I have enough, but now I have two students who are home and a spouse who is home and with all of us hooked up. There's just me here. And I get notices that say that my internet is iffy and I live in downtown Montpelier. You know, if I had to do the same, I have my daughter's a college sophomore, she's across the hall, my wife's a teacher. So we, you know, we've had to upgrade our bandwidth considerably to stay afloat here to do that. But, and we're fortunate and I live in downtown Manchester, we have very good cable level internet on the back hall, if you will. Oh, it is a whole mixed bag, but I lost my tray. Oh, Linden, we have a state college in Linden. I'm assuming that our state colleges have internet access. They also have at least for this year, limited enrollment just because of COVID. And perhaps that's a place where we could work to everybody's advantage with Northern Vermont University and their facilities and their broadband and work away so that some of the kids can access and maybe some of the teaching students can learn. But something to think about. Okay, other questions. Okay, I'm not seeing any. So thank you, Mr. Secretary. And it'd be good to hear how those child care pods are going. They're kind of a combination child care, I'm not education pods. So it'd be good to get an update on those as soon as we know something. All right, thank you. Thank you. Okay, thank you, commissioner. Committee, the agenda for next week is posted. Any additions, subtractions, let me know. And we'll see where it goes. I have asked for some information on the future of the Act 250 bill, but have not been told, but we'll work through our section and then see when it makes it out. Other than that, we aren't getting a whole lot of response on the dental bill in the form of Blue Cross Blue Shield doesn't do any real dental insurance. It looks like Delta Dental is the big one. We're trying to get some more stuff in there, but anything you see, you'd like added. We have Friday off so far next week. I'll try and do that. And we'll see, but we've got limited time. So the more we can get out in a hurry, broadband is probably gonna be the hardest one just cause there's so many moving parts. And we won't know till we get back in January how many lines actually get hooked up, how many kids. And by then the kids may be back in school full-time. Who knows, or they may be home full-time. Some mother thinks it would be really good, yes. My daughter went into her office for the first time in six months. And she said, it just feels so good to be out of the house. So yeah, yeah, no, kids, they need to be in school. Parents need them to be in school. And hopefully something will break and we'll be back there a year from now. Okay, we will see everybody on Tuesday. And I think on Tuesday we are going, I don't remember at this point. It's the CUD's center coming in. The CUD's, yes, that's right. We have more broadband, we have the CUD's coming in and a couple of other folks that Randy is corralling up. We've got, they've been in before. There's the Bloom and Mr. Goldstein and then Stewittaker. So that one keeps everybody. Have a good weekend. I'm ending live stream now.