 All right, let's pull off this December 27 edition of the Sportsmax Zone with a cricket. It is not much of a jolly Christmas time for Jamaica Tullo's fans, though as news broke last week that the franchise will no longer exist. Well, not at least for now, Guyanese businessman Chris Brasad sold the franchise that he acquired in 2017 back to the Caribbean Premier League ahead of the 2024 season, citing his inability to sustain the Tullo's because of lack of commitment from the Jamaican government. Ex-Chief Executive Officer Jeff Miller told local newspaper, Jamaica Observer, that there are no hard feelings towards sports minister Olivia Bamsigrain. She says, I've met with the Honourable Minister on numerous occasions and she's a fantastic lady. She's verbally provided support over and over, but again, it takes funding to operate the franchise, whether that be in cash or in kind. Miller also expressed concerns over the lack of support for cricket. He says, Jamaica is a big brand, a global brand. From what I understand, the government doesn't need CPL or the Tullo's to showcase their brand. Maybe Antigua will want that global exposure and Jamaica doesn't need it. We were told on more than one occasion that the other sports bring more to Jamaica, but for the biggest Caribbean island to have iconic stadiums have some of the world's greatest cricketers and yet not have cricket in Jamaica is bad. An Antigua and Barbuda franchise is set to make a return for the first time in a decade. Lance Whittaker. Well, if I was to read between the lines here from Jeff Miller, he's being, I could say politically correct that he doesn't want to attack the Jamaican government for the position they have taken, but he is in the next sentence suggesting that it is not a good look for Jamaica. And I understand the point he's making because Jamaica through players like Chris Gale and Andrea Russell have produced some of the most exciting T20 cricketers in world cricket in the past decade or so. So from that standpoint, as a Jamaican, you would be concerned that the country isn't embracing the CPL in the way that the Talawa owners would have wanted. Do you suspect that what is happening here is a reflection of the reduced passion for cricket in Jamaica? I think that is a part of it. I think that is a part of it. But to be fair, if you would look at the attendance, the CPL attendance doesn't reflect a reduction in interest in cricket, maybe overall as a sport, Jamaicans aren't as big on cricket as they were maybe 20 years ago. But I have seen crowds at Subway Park and the volume of support and so on. And it belies the view that cricket has reduced interest in Jamaica. I would suggest that whereas that may be true to an extent, I don't think it's true for T20 cricket. Yeah, and I completely agree with that by the way, because I think what we have seen in T20 cricket and I think right across the Caribbean, not just in Jamaica, Caribbean people love a party and that is what the CPL is, that is what T20 cricket is. It's a party and wherever there is that level of entertainment, you are going to get fans coming out and being part of it. And it's part of why, it's a massive part of why this is so disappointing and coupled with the fact that Jamaica will not host matches at the T20 World Cup next year. Now there will be no CPL, well there will be no Jamaican franchise, there was never any guarantee that there would have been CPL in Jamaica in any case. Well there hasn't been any since 2019. There you go. So from that standpoint, it's double disappointment. It's double disappointment and when you also consider that not a lot of high level cricket at the moment is being played in Jamaica, I don't remember who it was, but someone made the point that there is a generation of youngsters who have not seen top level cricket in this land. They don't have the opportunity to go to Subway in a park and see some of the best cricketers first in the Caribbean and I guess by extension, some of the best cricketers in the world and you can't be surprised when a number of the youngsters who you would want to draw to cricket are being drawn elsewhere because they are seeing more of other sports than we are seeing of cricket and for me that is massively disappointing. Yeah and of course this issue, Ricardo, extends beyond just a sporting discussion because you know Jamaica is a politically very active landscape or has an active landscape and the supporters of the ruling party, the Jamaica Labour Party's government would suggest that they understand Babs & Grains' position that cricket as a financial product is not as beneficial to Jamaica. Is that true though? Yes, it is true, as it is to other countries in the eastern Caribbean, I'm just saying the government supporters are hanging on to that view. There were statistics put out by the CPL people and the Talawahs people that would suggest that that is not entirely true so we have Dr Akshay Ma'an Singh coming in in a few minutes from now to further discuss this issue but it is something that I expect to carry a lot of discussion in the coming months because there is a local government election coming up in Jamaica in a couple of months from now and I know that the opposition party will want to hang on to things like these to generate interest to suggest that the Jamaica Labour Party's government isn't supporting sport in the way that they should but financially they are defending themselves to say that they are protecting the economy by shying away from these things so I think there is a lot to be said on this issue. Yeah and you know I hear you, the disappointing thing for me, Lance, and maybe not specific to the CPL and the franchise because it seems as if conversations were had over a long period of time. Yeah, we can guarantee that that had happened, long meetings. Yeah, as opposed to the T20 World Cup for example where it seemed as if it caught the government by surprise and where I agree with the detractors of the Jamaican government is that if you are putting a plan in place then these are things that you see well in advance not in the year of because I don't think when it comes on, Lance, the bidding for major events or to investing in a product like the CPL that it is something for the Ministry of Sports only, it is something that the entire government has to get behind and believe in from the Prime Minister to the Finance Minister down to the Sports Ministry you need the complete buying and without that complete buying then it becomes significantly more difficult and we have, you take for example a lot of the other countries who are involved with the CPL notice that their Prime Ministers are integral in the process just think about all the nations who are involved with CPL and are having matches and have the finals being played in their island and playoff matches and so on, the leadership of those countries is integral in the decision-making process and integral in ensuring that their countries get the type of visibility through the Caribbean Premier League and through cricket by extension. In the same way that Dominicus Prime Minister Roosevelt Scarrett and the Dominicus government issued their statement several weeks ago withdrawing their proposal to be part of the T20 World Cup because for them they were seeing where financially based on the timelines it wouldn't have been good for them and they put a halt on their plans to host so the point is taken that the government has an integral role to play in any of these projects. And the truth is we are going to have many opinions on this issue, I personally believe that greater work has to be done in understanding the depth of this issue and especially the financial aspect from a governmental standpoint. One of the researches I would love to be done before we go to this break lands is to see how much for example Jamaica spends on sports in general, how much they invest as opposed to how much other Caribbean countries invest because maybe it is that Jamaica invests more overall but then cricket gets left behind because the investment goes elsewhere, maybe in track and field or football so I think that is something that we have to look at quite closely. Let's go to a break though, we'll continue to discuss this issue after, stay with us. Chris Prasad will be on then. Yeah we're back on the Sportsmax zone and we are talking cricket because the news broke in the past week that the Jamaica Talawas owners have resold the franchise to the Caribbean Premier League and Chris Prasad, the Florida based Ghani's owner, is about to talk to us on this issue. Of course we had him on the show some months ago and he was outlining the long standing issues with the Jamaican government's discussions with them, assisting with the finances of staging matches in Jamaica and it reached a point where it was unsustainable as a business venture for Chris Prasad and his team. Chris welcome to the Sportsmax zone, great to have you on the show for the second time. Thanks Lance, sorry. Yeah no problem. Let's start here because reselling the franchise to the Caribbean Premier League has been the end product of months, even years of discussion with the Jamaican government and its own involvement financially with your project. When did it become glaringly obvious to you that you would have had to take this decision because I must say that having spoken to you before we thought that this was a possible resultant effect. Lance, this has been a problem since 2017 when there was no support for the team. We continued in 2018, we continued in 2019 all bleeding every year. We tried to explain to the government several times and tried to make them understand that a part of the business model for franchise sport is for the host country to be a partner in that effort in exchange for the social and the financial benefit that gets provided from these games coming to the home of the location. Other territories understand that very well and they became partners and they supported it. We were speculating that this will be the same or this will hold true for Jamaica who were wrong. We could not convince the government to join with us in making this happen and the business model is such that a partnering arrangement is a requirement for the sustainability and the viability of the tournament to be held there. We did mention that your CEO Jeff Miller in a comment with the Jamaica Observer newspaper did suggest that there was no bad blood between the Talawa's ownership and the government and he in one sentence gave the impression as if while he didn't agree with the lack of support he understood the government's position that the football, the cricket product for the government isn't as beneficial to the government as they would want. In other words that financially wasn't that major for them. You've suggested prior to coming on to the show today that it's water under the bridge for you because you know that's in the past for you and you're looking elsewhere. But I still gather Chris that it's been hugely disappointing for you that you didn't get a different kind of partnership from the Jamaican government. There are a couple of things. You would ask when things really when we start thinking of throwing in the Talawa. After the boys and the entire team worked so hard to win the tournament without playing home games and get the crowd support and without getting any financial support or support in 2022 was zero. When we win the tournament lunch we did not get an acknowledgement, a phone call or a thank you from anybody in the House of Government. And then I realized that that cricket is not at the top of you know anybody's agenda there and it occurs to me that the tourism is doing great and they probably don't need this. One thing that I think they fail to understand or to appreciate is the social aspect of the event. If you go to all the other Caribbean countries like you know Diana, Trinidad, St Lucia, this has become a part of a national event and the time carnival to it and all kinds of social programs that the country and society benefits. I don't think that was taken into consideration and that wasn't a factor and it was only for the financial and I wouldn't say support. I would say you know partnership that we were seeking that they didn't see that the government you know want to be a part of. Yeah you know Chris I was reading an article and I think you were the one who said that whatever you get from Antigua and Barbuda which as we understand is where the franchise is likely to go it will be more than what you got from the Jamaican government. I just want to get an understanding of what type of kind support you would have been requesting over the years. Okay so without you know going into specific numbers whatever we are getting from Antigua if it's a dollar it is more than what we were getting from Jamaica because in 2223 we got absolutely zero. Monies was promised and then for one reason or another it never came through. Even on the year that we won the tournament and you know Jamaica got so much visibility and benefit there was zero. So from an Antigua standpoint if you know if we receive a dollar it's more than what you know Jamaica will be will be providing to us. Now I can't go into the numbers but I would say that what we are asking you know of Jamaica is really to you know a paltry you know compared to what you know other territories were providing you know in partnering you know for this event. Yeah was there a distinction made between I guess cash support and kind support. Yes and we asked for some kind of you know assistance with the stadium you know the stage games there. There's a convoluted arrangement with Sabina Park where you have a holding company and it's impossible to deal with those guys. You know Kingston Cricket Club there's a certain number of tickets that were supposed to go there but it turns out that you know three times the amount of four times the amount of people are there. So we end up with crowds there but somehow the arrangement ends up to where you know we don't get the benefit that we are seeking from at the stadium level and at the government level. So it just it just became impossible you know to a stage games there. Yeah were any types of tax breaks or anything like that included in the kind support that you would have been requesting. We were requesting that and no one wanted to talk about it. How involved will you be with the Antigua and Barbuda franchise. Well it's a whole different culture there. I mean you know when it comes to cricket it's a deep appreciation for the sport. It's a part of the fabric there and you know the people the government sports minister the prime minister the support staff they welcome us you know with open arms. I you know as opposed to you know to Jamaica you know I can never get a chance to see the tourist the tourism guy. What's his name at Bartlett. Somebody promoted a meeting which was a very fleeting one about four years ago. Bob see I met it you know a few times but I think she tried her best but the money is not given or the money is not assigned to her for cricket. I think that there's there is a strategic and there is a high level you know decision to really move away from from cricket especially after you see how much they they they try to get involved with you know World Cup coming. I'm understanding that there's not going to be games there so I don't know what they're going to do with those stadiums. I wanted to get an idea though if you will remain part owner at least of the franchise when it moves to Antigua or are you making a clean break and will Jeff who was the Talawa CEO have any involvement or are you guys just making a clean break. We have we have sold our rights back to CPL 100 percent so we have we have we basically threw in the towel the gamble and lost in it and I am we are 100 percent on board you know with Antigua and we have you know big plans to forget to the grassroots and making you know Antigua you know proud of their team and no looking back to Jamaica. All right we appreciate it Chris Brasad thanks very much for joining us on the Sports Mag Zone today and we wish you all the very best with the Antigua and Barbuda franchise. Thank you. All right let's take a break on the Sports Mag Zone when we return we'll be getting a reaction from Dr Akshay Man Singh stay with us. Yeah back on the Sports Mag Zone and we are talking Jamaica Talawa which is of course no more at least for now and yeah the three-time champions the franchise sold resold to the Caribbean Premier League CPL we had a chat in our last segment with Chris Brasad the well how do I describe him the former owner of the Jamaica Talawa's or the owner of the former Jamaica Talawa's whichever one you prefer that is it we're going to be having a chat with Dr Akshay Man Singh Dean Faculty of Sports at the University of the West Indies Mona Campos a man who has been in the nook and cranny of a cricket in this region and he joins us again on the Sports Mag Zone Dr Man Singh what do you make of this story well deja vu no cricket in in Jamaica that was the last time we were here talking as well but this time is a bit more concerning because last time it was palmed off on in activity and inattentiveness of the Jamaica Cricket Association and therefore the government could not this one is divided the Jamaica Cricket Association you know this is a direct franchise to government talk now you know extricating all political uh innuendos that were were were mentioned before there are many ways of looking at it one is a business approach the CPL travels with 300 people minimum for five days and brings spectators and so on as well there's a lot of economic activity in fact in 2014 the CPL estimated economic activity to be 166 million dollars in the region 25.1 I think it was million dollars in Jamaica US dollars in 2019 it was 17.5 million dollars in Jamaica alone up 60 percent from the year before now if somebody comes to you and says that I will for you give me 400 000 dollars and I'll return 12.5 million dollars because my analysts have said this the first thing I'll do is get my analyst to analyze it if I don't believe there's even though they're independent I wouldn't just say well it's your your calculation therefore it's of no use that's an attractive proposition to me we've seen where the ministry gives sport gives a lot of money to teams that need airline tickets zero return they give money to sporting events of internationally organizations so internationally participated events in track and field and so on they do give monetary support with returns to Jamaica here they're showing you that if you put in say 400 000 dollars or 200 000 whatever the figure is you get a return of 12.5 million that sounds like a pretty decent proposition so there's a business side of it counted by the fact that they say well we don't need the tourism because our tourism product is very good I'm happy that our product is good I really believe it is but tourism is not measured by how many hotel owners are pleased it's measured by the trickle down effect and when you have sporting events the peanut vendor the food concert concert rages the taxi men the air bnb and other people who are opening up their places etc etc are benefiting far greater than when you have somebody in a north coast hotel this event is in Kingston it's not competing with the north coast hotels so from that point of view the argument that we don't need the tourist to me is is not good enough because you're actually trickling down and you get a different sort of tourist so there's the business part of it there is the participation part of it of Jamaicans who wish to make cricket their profession now I stick out my head to say that cricket perhaps is the one sport that has provided more employment to Jamaican athletes than any other sport in history even now from the American Open League going right up to the IPL you've got Jamaicans playing cricket I'm being paid fairly decently for it yes we do have a lot of people in track and field but I'm sorry to say not many of them actually make money off of it yes in fact the aspirants are running out that subsidies they're their coaches have to subsidize them yes there's very little sponsorship so here is a sport which has provided more opportunities for Jamaicans than any other sport and you're turning it back to it that makes no sense and the last part which Chris Prasad had alluded to is that it's not about money when the tallow was won the same year last year or not just about money did you make a scorpions one yeah super 50 this year the jamaica and the 19 team won two events and not even a letter of congratulation or posting congratulation whereas when minus sports come third in a caribbean competition is posted all over now I'm not saying don't post that absolutely post that but congratulate the guys who won as well so that doesn't cost any money so it can't just be money it must be some sort of way that they view cricket as a non-sport in a country where cricket is a massive sport still and where the world wants to come and watch cricket and so when the Indians came this year they were very upset that they weren't coming to Jamaica yeah based on everything that you have just said real detailed well thought out no doubt about that do you suspect that part of the problem is that the Jamaican government does not see cricket as a big deal anymore well that's the conclusion you would draw now when we sat here last talking about not bidding for the world cup it was countered by an argument saying that they put together a committee to oversee it comprising of experts to oversee the the impact of the world cup and having it in Jamaica but no details were shared who was on this committee what analysis was done why is that other territories including New York City Miami or its environments and Dallas saw some value that we couldn't see you know Paris gets millions of tourists every year that doesn't mean that they don't take the Olympic Games on we had the opportunity of holding the second largest viewed event in the world so my point I'm getting to is that if you have counterargument share the details with us share the detail because I'm putting all data they're counter it Dr. Mansing I heard Chris Prasad twice in the interview we did with him a few minutes ago shy away from the term that we're using about government support and spoke about partnership he thinks the term partnership is a better term to describe any agreement that the government would have with the CPL and it kind of ties in with a little bit of what you're saying now well every sporting event franchise event has partnerships yes so as as you alluded to before this is not just a ministry of sport endeavor this is a government of Jamaica endeavor tourism has to get on board sports has to get on board everybody else so they meet weekly at a cabinet meetings it's not like you don't talk to each other if you look at CPL in Guyano the entire week is full of activities including concerts by who bears Hammond Spice Jamaican artists along amongst others who are entertaining themselves so it's a concerted decision it's not just one ministry that has made this decision it's a concerted decision where it would have gone to cabinet or should have gone to cabinet we have the opportunity of holding a world cup we have the opportunity of partnering with a global franchise you know a franchise that's being seen globally what how do you assess it yeah and that partnership never took place now Chris was being very politically correct in when he was speaking in fact if you read between the lines of what Jeff Miller you when you quoted him he's you've got very very strong verbal support from ministry minister but no monetary support so it shows that they were frustrated every other Caribbean country for some reason sees reason to invest a little bit to get back a lot more from what we're hearing and clearly you know this partnership now people also say well it's not a Jamaican owner the fact that it wasn't a Jamaican owner was not because Jamaicans didn't have the opportunity to own the tallow was it because nobody stopped stepped up to it but nobody Newcastle doesn't stop supporting Newcastle United because you have foreign owners or Chelsea gets you know turned off by a foreign owner it's a local business proposition and for business propositions you prefer partners and you do sponsors yeah I want to ask you this quickly though Dr Mancing because there there appears to be in in analyzing this entire issue that the sports minister Babsik Grange and Chris Prasad alluded to it just now had very little sway in this and it would be the tourism minister Edmund Bartlett that he would have wished to to convince is it because this is a sporting event is it that Babsik Grange as a sports minister didn't have the clout required to patch up this deal well as I said cabinet meets once a week and so if you see a proposition like this for Jamaica which has multifaceted benefits then you bring it up there and discuss it with the relevant ministers I don't think the franchise necessarily should be running down every individual minister but clearly it's a concerted decision I don't think it's one ministry that's made this decision it's a concerted decision I want to just point out one other thing let's not just look at the Taluas as the sort of fall guys completely other franchises have a lot more involvement in their countries as well for example there's some franchises that demand that if you take X amount of local players you get X amount of subsidy so they actually push it right in 2020 the Jamaica Taluas management team had no Jamaicans except for the massage therapist the physiotherapist the manager the coach the assistant coach everybody was a non-jamaican the developmental players who're supposed to be you know bringing up the youth were not Jamaicans etc etc so don't think that that you know it's been a one-way street in terms of getting the rough deal but it's something that could have been worked out clearly if you want to develop this in Jamaica then the Taluas also should have taken the onus of saying we will push to get local talent exposed that's supposed to bring you know non-stars from elsewhere what we're seeing in the CPL now is that the franchises are sitting on academies in the country so St Lucia is getting an academy Barbados is getting an academy I think they've been 10 years slow in doing that but that's the sort of engagement that you'd want between partners yeah Dr Man Singh Pete Russell has not ruled out a Jamaican franchise returning to the CPL he said at the earliest 2025 so 2024 now clearly out of the equation if you were a consultant for the Jamaican government what is the advice that you would give to them now sure first you do recognize and I've said this openly Jamaican comprises almost 50 percent of the population of the West Indies you cannot turn you back to 50 percent of the population leave alone the diaspora outside yes we must do this not as a franchise sport but as a sport business and we should have business plans and propositions put forward to the next owners that this is our expectation these are the returns we're looking for and how can we partner with you and that means some give and take yes we also have to subsidize certain things but you too have to have some commitments you cannot be a six-week wonder where you're turned up for CPL and we don't see you for the rest of the year so there'll be a lot of things to be done there but the first thing you have to do is have a proper business plan to see who benefits how much you do benefit and what's the net benefit to the country not to a ministry of sport or a ministry of tourism to the country yeah and if you feel that you've spent too much in somebody else's gain well go to the minister of finance you know allocate some of that money to me yeah um does the government lack the expertise you think to get this done and if so where do they find the expertise to get the job done no but we're told that they had an expert panel that viewed it in detail to ensure that we we were not making a mistake with the world cup so they have the expertise they just want them to share what the findings were do you do you as some people are criticizing do you anticipate based on the government's posture with with cricket that there is a concentrated move from the Jamaican government to to move away from cricket as a sport well I mean I don't know if the government is that strong about it they're certainly a move to not support it they've been accused of so that's why we're not to support it yes because you've seen both financially and through the will of good will that has not been supported we did hear some statement about a hundred million being given to the development of cricket in lieu of not holding the world cup grassroots but that sounded um that sounded a bit late in in as an overall vision um I don't understand why they would do that it's still a world sport which is growing massively and it's a sport that we excel in so therefore why would you turn your back to something you excel in especially when listen our football has not gone too far since since 98 in the males in the me for the males our netball has remained where it is and I'm glad for that but not for any local investment in academies and so on that you have in other countries our track and field remains to be phenomenal but that once again is because of the network we have not necessarily because of the intervention of a government what I would like to see the government doing is is looking at development of sport to modernize it so that you have academies you have competitions and what was he we just heard where Clarendon college won in Ghana yes when last time we had a Caribbean team come to the to Jericho so we need that sort of outlook in sport as opposed to just looking at you know whose hand can we shake and who can we give an airline ticket to and who can be big up on our social media doctor man saying thanks very much for your input it's been a pleasure as usual let's take a break on the sportsman zone we'll be back with more