 Think Tech Away. Civil Engagement lives here. Comfort Zone. I'm your host, Arby Kelly, and today we're talking about trust. Now you may have recently heard about the Facebook scandal that rocked the world. The 2016 election was already bad enough, but now we're finding that all the data that you've been adding to Facebook, all the quizzes you've been taking, everything you've been putting out there on this social media platform that you trust has been used by Cambridge Analytics to create targeted ads, to create perceptions and manipulate your trust in a way where other people got what they wanted from you. Now this is a very tricky issue, and this isn't something that just happens online. This is something that also happens in the real world. Today we're talking about trust and how people manipulate it, but how, by learning certain skills, you can stay safe. Now today I've brought in an expert on emotional intelligence all the way from Washington, D.C. to talk with you about these thorny issues. I'd like to welcome PhD Irvine Nugent, who is the president and founder of Irvine Nugent & Associates, a communication expert. Thank you for joining us, Irvine. Well, thank you, Orbi. Pleasure to be here. I'm really excited to have you, Irvine. So I wanted to ask just, could you explain in your own words exactly what you do for our viewers? Well, I have the best job in the world. I get to work with some amazing people, some amazing leaders. I really believe that leadership is one of the most courageous acts in the world today. And I get to do a number of tasks with those leaders. I get to work in the executive coaching realm. I get to run some seminars with them on different topics of nonverbal, verbal communication, emotional intelligence. And then I also do some professional speaking. So I get to speak to groups of people about topics that I'm really passionate about. That is quite impressive. So how exactly did you get into this? What drove you to what you do now? Well, I am classically known as a child of the trouble. I was born in 1967 in Northern Ireland. Just as the troubles, as we call them, were beginning. So I grew up in a very divided and broken society. My family history and everything around me was touched by that violence in a very personal way. And I think that seeds within me about communication, about mistrust, about broken relationships, about divided sides and the inability to even talk to each other. So I think within me that where the passion grew with, how do we communicate at a deep and profound level? How do we form trust in relationships? And how do we mend the walls of the vision that have grown up in so many places in our world? You bring up a really good point because if you look back over the past few years, each election seems to get more and more divisive. Each of the issues that spring up, the feminist movement, the Black Lives Matter, all of these other groups that are springing up and saying, hey, we've got problems, listen to us. It seems like everything that comes up only adds more wildfire and more division to the entire world. Yeah, you know, the sad thing is that, you know, we live in a world of growing complexity. We have a lot of information coming in. And I think at times we get overloaded. And the simple thing to do when we're overloaded is to go back to Black and white, to go to this binary division. And I think to have intelligent conversations is to allow space for complexity, to allow space for other opinions. And really, you know that a lot of the work that I do with leaders is to be able to enable them to survive in a world that is fast-moving and is complex. That is complex. Can you tell us some of the skills that you teach to these leaders? Well, I think one of the most important things and where we start is that whenever we're under stress and anxiety, that feeds throughout the whole organization. So one of the things I talk to leaders is that it starts with you. Your mood determines the mood of the whole organization. And emotions are contagious. They are caught by others. And so in the face of this environment that a leader has to deal with, one important thing is how does the leader themselves show up? So part of that is self-knowledge. Part of that is knowing yourself, knowing your triggers, knowing how you are. I remember one of my first jobs was with the Foreign Office in the United Kingdom. And I remember I was nothing more than a glorified person that got to see, et cetera. However, what was really intriguing was that when the leader came in that morning, if there were in a good mood, the secretary at the front desk would raise their thumb up and everyone would be relaxed and everything would be fine. And as the leader came in in a bad mood, the thumb went down and it was amazing. No one talked, the doors were shut. And I think at that stage I realized, wow, the leader has incredible power. So one of the lessons I talk to leaders about is know your power and exercise and influence knowing that you have the ability to test yourself. And I think that makes a big difference. I know in my family growing up if mom wasn't happy, nobody was happy. And I imagine it's the same for a lot of these companies where everything starts at the top down. So can you tell us some of the, you told us the overall picture. Can you tell us some of the individual pieces, the tools that you give these leaders that help them create this big picture? Yeah, so I think part of that is, so I think the first part of is absolutely a leader coming to terms with their self-awareness, their self-awareness of what makes them sick, what is some of their emotional lessons. You know, very often we live in a society where we think from the neck upwards. And what I find is so many leaders are detached from here now. And I think part of that is this holistic approach to what we bring to our position. So knowing exactly what we're feeling, how we're feeling, the reactions that are happening within us, being able to name them, because what we're trying to do, especially in the field of emotional intelligence, is we cannot prevent at times our emotion and how we react to something. What we can do is put this little space of time in between that stimulus and how we react. So we can choose how we react. And I think a lot of the work that I do initially with leaders is that awareness around the emotions that we're feeling and then building up a list of choices that we have. Ah, I think I get it now. So something I've kind of noticed is often people seem to think, oh, I'm in a great mood, everything is fine. And then it's trigger, anger, explosion. It's an immediate reaction. But it sounds like what you're saying is the trick to this emotional intelligence is to realize when you are starting to amp up. And then you can choose to either explode or to come back down. So you have to notice, be aware of, oh, I'm clenching my fists. Oh, I'm gritting my teeth. Oh, I've got angry eyebrows. You know what? I might be angry. What should I do about this? Is that right? Yes, and actually I would say it's a little both and because how we become angry is not just universally the same. So in other words, even begin to notice, even within ourselves, we have different responses. Sometimes our anger is kind of like, oh my God, this has happened to take place in our head. And all of a sudden we go to zero to 60 in one second. Other times it's much more, it's built up, built up. And then there's this trigger. So knowing even within ourselves that there are different circumstances and different approaches to that anger and how that anger is displayed. And I think that's really, you know, a leader to have that ability to really know how they respond to different situations is incredible information for them. I can see how that would make a big difference because when people are scared of the boss or they can't be open with the boss or they can't tell the boss about a problem, then the entire company has problems. But if you know, you know what? This is a huge issue. This is going to have horrible catastrophic consequences. But I can take this to the boss and I'm safe doing that. I can see how then you'd be able to see changes. You'd be able to fix problems before they happen. But if no one's able to talk to the boss or if the boss isn't willing to listen to criticism, that's when companies fail. Yes. Oh, absolutely. And you know, I always say if there's one quality that I think that is necessary for successful leadership, it is the ability to be curious. Because you cannot be curious and anxious and angry at the same time. And so instead of reacting just like that, I've been able to really pull it back and go, let me ask a few more questions about that. Let me be curious about that. And so often, you know, we go into reactive mode and so we're opposite someone. Someone's reacting and we want to get a reply. And so in our mind, we have this whole thing going, well, how am I going to reply? How am I going to? We're formulating the response. We're really, if we can step back from that and say, well, I'm curious, why are they responding like that? What's happening to them today? What's the whole background that's going around? Because when we have that curiosity, that permeates in our vocal tone, it permeates through our body language, and it permeates and assess that emotional tone, which is one of an ability to have that conversation we talked about earlier that's so difficult at times to have. I'm just, my mind is over here. My mind has been blown. One of the first things you said in that awesome paragraph was you can't be curious and angry or offended at the same time. And I sat down and I like, oh my gosh, you really can't because if you're curious, you're trying to explore, hmm, I wonder why this happened. Hmm, what will happen if I do this? Hmm, what's the whole situation here? But if you're angry or offended, you're just a full punch steaming ahead. So you have to consciously choose to get more information and figure it out instead of flying off the handle. Yeah, and one of the exercises they actually do with the leaders is that the next time you find yourself in a conversation and a person is coming at you with some anger or whatever, imagine those words flying out of their mouth and landing into the center of the table and have that mental image. And so when you put them in the center of the table, then just be curious about those words because I think what happens is we personalize and as soon as we begin to personalize, then we go into a reactive space and then we're formulating the response and formulating the response instead of getting out of that curious space. Well, I'm just imagining all of these past arguments I've had and imagining what would happen if instead of feeling the words flying straight towards me and like hitting me in the face if I imagine them just lining up for me on the table so I could review them and see what they said, that would totally change the tone. So it sounds like you have not only mindset, not only an overall vision, but you have a lot of, you don't just tell people, oh, you should be curious before you get angry. You also give them actual tools to help them accomplish that. Yeah, and let's be honest. I mean, this is perfect, but how many times do I fall into the same trick? And so they're more less saying it's okay. It's okay to go into a reactive phase, but then what happens is I always tell people, at the end of the day or at the end of an important meeting, take some time to take notes. Take some time to observe how you were in that meeting because we always don't get it right. Sometimes no matter how perfect we think we are, we can still get triggered, but it's that ability of that growing awareness and that ability to reflect even after the moment and say, wow, I really got triggered. What was it that triggered me? And then to learn a little bit more about the tastes that are playing in your head and how you can go to automatic functioning sometimes. This is so cool. So, all right, I think we've covered, not necessarily in depth, but we've covered self-awareness and how it's the very first thing. After self-awareness, what are some of the pieces that you teach people, some of the bits of expertise that you bring to the table? So I think the other thing is the quality of our presence. So I'm a great believer that our tone and our presence sets in motion some actions and people feel that presence. So often now executive presence or leadership presence is very important. And within that is a number of different elements. It can be very difficult to define, but one of the things I like to say is what's our verbal presence? What are we saying? To align what we are doing with our own mission and vision of who we are as a leader. Is that clearly being delineated? And then secondly, is that backed up by our nonverb? Very often I think we put a lot of work and attention into what we're going to say. We do put very little attention into how we're going to show up when we say that. And I think it's both and. I think leaders have to be very attentive, not only to the words they're going to use, but then also to the spirit in which they're going to show up. And I think that is so important because I've seen it happen before where a leader says one thing it might be something totally neutral. Like, oh, why are you late today? And it could be like totally laid back like no big deal that you're late is everything okay. But if they say it like, why are you late today? Then it sounds like an accusation. Then it sounds like they've got to defend themselves. So even just changing the way you say it, with your body language, with your voice pitch, with all these nonverbal gestures, it totally impacts the way people read and react to it. Yes. And it begins in that beginning moment of how am I showing up towards this? You know what? I'm tired. I'm hungry. And I'm in a bad mood. I'd better be careful. That is so powerful. Yeah, once we get into even that, then we go, okay, I need to be a little easy with myself and know that that's how I'm showing up today. That is so powerful. And viewers, we are going to be right back. We are going to dive even further into the tools that you need to build more of this self-awareness and to start showing up with the executive presence that you need. And Irvine will be coming back with us right after the break. Welcome to Sister Power. I'm your host, Sharon Thomas Yarbrough, where we motivate, educate, empower, and inspire all women. We are live here every other Thursday at 4 p.m. And we welcome you to join us here at Sister Power. Aloha and thank you. Aloha. I'm Marsha Joyner. And I'm Beatriz Contelmo. And we have come in this series, Young and Old Alive, to take a look at our past, your past, and the past that's not seen in history books. History books are his story. And what we refer to as mirrors of the past. But we as colonized people, indigenous peoples, and people of Kola, look into the mirror and do not see ourselves there. On the Tysed Bind, we will examine those underlying causes. Please join us with the Tysed Bind on Wednesdays at noon, twice a month. We look for you there. Aloha. Aloha. Welcome back to Out of the Comfort Zone. I'm Marbie Kelly. And I am here with Irvine Nugent, who is a communication expert, actually one of my heroes. And we've been talking all about building trust and why it's so important for leaders to be aware of themselves, of their words, and their body language. So now I'm kind of hoping to turn it around. Irvine, could we just hear some of this story, some of the results that you've seen from your clients as they put what you teach them into action? You know, just one that comes to mind is some of that I worked with about four or five months ago. And basically the presenting issue was that they were just below the sea level and they had really lost their mojo. They were going into meetings and they found themselves not able to talk. They were getting more nervous and it was almost like a crisis of confidence. And so it was interesting to kind of really delve into some of that experience. And really what we came to was to identify, first of all, the stealth story that was going on. So I think there was a story going on that basically they had reached their level that that was it, and they couldn't go any further. And so we really had to examine, you know, what were some of the stealth stories going on with that. But then secondly, take some practical exercises of what they were doing before the meeting, how they were showing up for the meeting. So, you know, our old friend, the power posing, building up confidence. And, you know, there's an exercise I like to do with people. I like to have them stand up and I like them to imagine how they're showing up at the moment. And it's interesting how that shows up in the body. That can be very nervous, et cetera. And I kind of just really notice how that looks and how that feels. And sometimes I'll actually film it, so I will. And then I'll make them step out of that and step into another space. And then I'll ask them to now think of the proudest moment of your life. Close your eyes, think about that. And it is amazingly adjustment that they make with their body stance. And then I want them to feel, and I said, you know, that's the energy that you should be stepping into this meeting. And so we tried this week. We played, we explored. And what was wonderful, you know, after about two or three months, she reported back that not only had she gone in qualitatively different, she got comments from people that were saying, you know, you're just really different. There's something, I don't know, there's confidence we're seeing. And then she found, you know, from that. And of course, confidence speaks confidence. And there's this positive feedback loop that happens. And so, of course, then she started, you know, speaking up a little bit more. Lo and behold, she got a promotion after about five months into a senior vice-president role. That is so awesome that not only was she able to feel different and show up different, but also that people noticed and she was rewarded for the changes that you helped her to make. That is so cool. Oh my gosh. So what kinds of companies, of groups do you usually work with? So I'm very blessed to be in the D.C. area. So we have a wonderful mix. So I do quite a lot of work in the federal government in different federal agencies. And I get to do a lot of executive coaching and some presenting and workshops around emotional intelligence and also nonverbal communication. And that's really at two levels. First level is those emerging leaders. So those leaders that are moving into supervisory positions and are kind of getting out of the weeds and now they have to think more strategically and they have to embrace, you know, kind of a leadership, a confidence in leadership. And so really it's building up that leadership confidence. It's building up the savvy to build up the relationships and the networking that's needed at this next level of leadership. And then also helping more senior leaders. I'm really perfect, kind of a more executive president. Mmm. So it sounds like you help people not only build up their confidence but also build up the necessary skills that actually take them to the next level. Is that right? Yes, correct. And one of the ways, you know, that I've started doing a lot of that now is I'm really passionate about the work of Polakman and this ability for leaders to really go more in depth into their emotional intelligence to really be able to decode what they're seeing. So in other words, you know, so often when we talk to someone we focus on the words and what they are saying. And I think what I'm trying to help leaders is, you know, there's all these different channels of information and it's important for us to be aware to step back and take in this information from those different channels, from their voice, from the vocal tone, from some of the content that's being saved, from their facial expressions and also from the body language that they're giving. So then in other words, they're able to really receive all the data and that really takes a lot of practice. It's a much higher skill and it's a skill level that's really not possible. I can second that as well. Viewers, Irvine and I are actually we both went through the same body language program. So Irvine has the benefit of so much more experience, so much more education. And Irvine, I can't even list all of the certifications you've gone through. Now, you seem like you've, for me personally, it really seems like you know everything and I'm always happy to be like, hey Irvine, what about this? Hey, what about this? I want to know about this and you always know the answers. But that is something that leaders almost have no idea what's really going on in their companies when it comes to interpersonal skills. That's something even I see over and over again. Yeah, absolutely. And really, you know as I said at the very beginning I have a place in my heart for leadership. Leadership is very difficult. I always say leadership is for the brain and it is hard to put yourself out there in the world today as a leader and so therefore what tools can I give you because it's not just helping you, but it's helping a whole organization. You know, I believe in a systems approach to leadership and so often we think about a company being a relationship between two people and really what it is it's an interrelationship. So if you impact one relationship you impact the whole organization and to give leaders these toolkits that can really not only impact their leadership but also the whole organization. I mean there is something incredible about it. You know as we're talking I'm suddenly wondering if this type of training would be helpful in Congress or in the halls of law where people are actually having to work together and you see these huge divisions across the aisle. Is this something that you would want to work with representatives, work with governments on or is it something you mostly see in the private sector? So it's something you mostly see in the private sector however the government, the federal government was one of the earliest adopters of professional coaching. So actually they are very open, you know so often we get a negative view about government workers and really what I found is people who are passionate and dedicated at the FDA. I do a lot of work in different organizations. These are people who are really passionate about their mission of protecting the U.S. citizens and protecting them from the different areas that they have and so often they are hungry and open to that but then also in the private sector as well. Interesting. And I'm sure that you in DC have a very different view of the federal government of the way the world works from us who are all out in the fringes and for us, I know growing up in Utah for me in a small town it was default for me to hear whenever there was a problem, oh that federal government, oh it's let's blame it on the Democrats, oh let's blame it on the Republicans. So it must be really different for you sitting there in the middle where you can see all of the pieces working together. I am, I think I'm very privileged. I came away from a meeting today which was I was helping to facilitate which is talking about some national security issues. These are people who are passionate about really protecting the U.S. I talk with leaders who are talking about drug and drug safety and all these different issues and so for me I really meet people who are genuine about their mission and genuine about their role does that mean that there are bad apples? Of course but then that's every organization so it is but I think you know I get I'm privileged to kind of see the core of that and the heart and the passion of so many federal workers. That is so awesome. I'm also curious how can people work with you? I know there are a lot of viewers here and anyone who's watching this after it airs live there are so many different things that I want to ask you I'm sure for our viewers there are a lot of different things people are curious how they can work with you they're curious what sort of groups you work with they're curious how they can find you so can you tell us about that? Sure happy to yeah I work with many with companies and with the federal government I work with groups of leaders either emerging leaders that group of leaders who have been chosen for the next stage and so I do get various things with them including workshops on emotional intelligence workshops on body language and then also one-on-one coaching otherwise I'm coming back from one-on-one coaching because I have so many workshops and then I also do professional speaking the number of keynotes and so some people contact me through opportunities to speak to at various meetings which I'm always open to and I've laid out we do a lot of work with Paul Ekman in fact I've just rolled out a new seminar which is called a masking hidden facial messages which is really a one-day overview of the signs of Paul Ekman many people know Paul Ekman from the Lytomy TV series and this kind of distills all the scientific thought into a one-day workshop to give people a flavor but also some practical tools that are so necessary to take it to the next stage of leadership I would not be at all surprised Irvine if you have a whole line of people a whole list of people lining up to be like this is so cool we want to learn from you so we've got just about one minute left is there any last-minute advice or worldviews you'd like to give to our viewers well one of the exercises that I do with leaders at the very beginning is know what your response is when you are under stress is it bite, bite, or freeze because all of that will determine how you react and there's a way of doing that one of the ways we do it is we if you have another person you hand out put out your hands and you have them suddenly grab you if you move in towards the person that's you're more likely to bite if you move away you're more likely to flee and if you say sudden you're more likely to breathe knowing information like that is really powerful and impactful because when we're under stress that's really the true test of leadership and I think knowing how we react under stress is a way to take your leadership to the next level that is so so cool oh my gosh I wish we had another like two hours talking with you Irvine but sadly we are out of time so viewers if you want to learn more you can find Irvine at IrvineNewGen.com but alas it is time to go you've been watching out of the comfort zone I'm your host RB Kelly and I'll see you next week bye