 Welcome once again to the breakfast here on PLOS TV Africa. Our first major conversation for today. The National Union of Railway Workers has declared a three-day warning strike starting from the 18th of November after the meeting that was held on the 10th of November. They, of course, are complaining of working conditions and very poor remuneration. And, you know, maybe a little bit of, you know, a poor or a little bit of unsoncerity, insincerity, I beg your pardon, from the Minister. Let's begin this morning with the President-General, National Union of Railway Workers, innocent at Gigi. Good morning and thanks for joining us, sir. Good morning. Thanks for having me this morning. All right. So I want us to go back to your meeting. You held the meeting on the 10th of November. Give us, you know, some details exactly what, you know, played out in that meeting. Well, the first of all, my name is Comrade Inos and Luca Gigi, the President-General of the Nigerian Union of Railway Workers. We held a meeting on Saturday with the Minister of Transport here in Lagos, and the meeting ended in deadlock because our expectation was not met by the time we met with the Minister of Transport. Because for last year, in fairness to him and the Managing Director of Railways, the enhanced salary structure was included in the budget proposal for 2021. But unfortunately, when it got to the National Assembly, the National Assembly struck it off. And so that brought us back to square one. So and we started all over again from the time the budget was approved and that of our enhancement salary was not included. We started by making consultations and series of write-offs to all concern. At the end of it all, our last write-off got to the Minister of Transport precisely five months ago. And with the intention and with the promise to assist us is seeing Mr. President to grant approval so that other protocols will be followed and then we will achieve the enhanced salary structure in no distant time. But unfortunately, when we met on Saturday, the Minister was telling us that Mr. President has travelled and to wish to be patient when the President comes back, he is going to present our matter. So that now brought us to the knowledge that nothing was done at all about our request for the past five months that we have submitted documents to Mr. Minister. So that is why we are still going to embark on the three days one is time. Okay. So in a letter to the Managing Director of the Nigerian Railway Corporation and also to the Minister of Transport, you described the salary structure of the Nigerian Railway workers as the most worst. He says the worst and most indecent in your letter of all salary structure available to the peristatal. Why did you describe bitters that? And what is the current salary structure and what are you asking for? Thank you very much. We have to be sincere to and turn Nigerians and even to the Minister himself and the government themselves. They are very much aware that among the old peristatals in the Ministry of Transport, railway workers are the most poorly paid workers. And we say this because we happen to fall under the consolidated salary of COMS salary structure. And we are the people that falls within the category of those that collect 30,000 naira as minimum wage. And so 30,000 naira is what is being paid to a railway worker. Then when you deduct allowances like pension contribution, tax, union dues, you would have a take home of about 26,000 naira. So and as I talk to you today, that is what railway workers are collecting. Those that falls within the range of level four to six, that is their take home. And but when you go to other peristatals within the Ministry of Transport, of course, you know what I'm talking about the salary differences is so huge that it will let you know that railway worker is the most patient worker in the whole country. Mr. Ajiji, when you say levels four to six earning 26,000 naira a month, can you clarify for us what's what's the role of the you know the people who are on that level? What are their responsibilities? But God bless you. Among them you will see this, there are these local pilots who drives all these locals. Among them there are people who do maintenance services on our locomotive. Among them there are people who do maintenance services on the track that the trains run through. And so imagine someone doing a very, very delicate job like this, collecting such amount of money. Will there be the zero? As I talk to you, a lot of people that were employed between 2015, 2018, 2019 have left because they couldn't seek a career in railway due to the poor nature of the salary. So imagine someone handling a delicate duty like this in an organization like ours that the federal government is busy modernizing the infrastructure and bringing modern railway to South Nigerians. Imagine a person working in that organization collecting such amount of money. How could he put in his best? How could he be motivated to do what he is supposed to do? And it will interest you to know that we work 24 hours, we run shifts, we don't observe weekends, we don't observe the public holidays in order to South Nigerians. So you're saying the person, the person manning the train, you know, between Wari, Yitakbe and the lights and the popular rail tracks across the country is ending 26,000 Naira a month? The person who is maintaining those locomotives, the person who is maintaining the rail tracks is ending 26,000 Naira a month? So we know that the national union of railway workers is also an affiliate of, you know, the labor, that's Nigeria Labor Congress, Nigerian Labor Congress. What has the Nigerian Labor Congress done, you know, to intervene in this case? You know, in struggle like this, it has to pass through stages. So we have to do our own as a local union before when it gets to a particular level, then we can take it, the Nigeria Labor Congress will take it up from where we are, but at least we have to put in our effort first and then get to a particular level. When we get to that level, that Nigeria Labor Congress needs to come in, they will certainly come in. So I'd also like to find out, apart from the fact that you're asking for salary increase, I would also like to find out how much are you expecting as an increase from 26,000 Naira, what are you expecting, and what are all the concerns apart from salary? You also mentioned the working condition. What are the other concerns of the railway workers? Thank you very much. Apart from the salary, we have allowances that are supposed to be paid to workers. And as I talk to you now, the standard working condition of railway was reviewed last in 1978, which of course by law it is supposed to be reviewed every five years. So you can imagine how patient the railway staff is, because if you check the standard condition of service of railway workers, you will still see where monies are paid in 10 Naira, 15 Kobo, 20 Naira, 30 Kobo. For God's sake, it needs to be reviewed. So if that is reviewed, I think the allowances and if they are being paid, at least it will make the salary appreciate to a certain level. It sounds, go ahead Mr. Jiji. Okay. Besides, of recent, we had a 200% salary increase for Nimsi, that is those who make this national identity card for Naira. So if Nimsi, that is not generating anything, can be, their salaries can be reviewed. Why not railway? That at least of recent, because of the new modern trends we have, we have been generating to a reasonable point. So when is the last time that there was any sort of salary review for railway workers? The last time that that took place was about 1983. All we have the surviving on is the general minimum wage that normally comes into place in the whole country. Did you say 1983? Yeah. So what this sounds like is because the railway has not been fully functional in Nigeria since the 80s, like you mentioned, or maybe early 90s. There hasn't been any conversations on reviewing the salary or reviewing the working conditions of your workers since then. Certainly there has been agitation, but in fairness to government and in fairness to the union then, agitations have been made, but the government never met their agitations. And at the point in time, government lost interest on railways because certainly we have the workers there and we are willing to do the work. But when you don't provide the materials for us to do the work, what magic do we perform? So in fairness to the administration of President Mohammedu Buhari, we are very satisfied with the infrastructural development that is going on in our cooperation right now. And that makes every Nigeria to believe that since railway is passing through a turnaround like this, in fact, the life of the workers is even better. So but the case is not like that. So that is why we have to bring out, make our agitations known to Nigeria so that they could come to our aid. So what next, after the three days one in strike, what will happen? Because we know that we have seen that strike actions haven't yielded much result over time. So what will be the next action? Yes, after the three days one in strike, we are going to resume back to work and give government some time where we still strategize on the next action to take. So in those three days, what does that mean that trains will not be functional for those three days? Certainly trains will not be functional for the whole three days. The trains that runs within Wari and Itaque, Abuja, Kaduna, Lagos, Ibadon. We have a trend that runs between Kano and Unguru. We have a trend that runs between Aba and Potakot. We equally have a trend that runs between Lagos to Kano. That is passenger's trend. And also we have a pipe trend, trend that conveys pipe from Wari to Itaque also. And we also have trends that conveys pipes from Lagos to Zaria. All those trends will be put to halt until after the three days. That sounds like a lot. Share with us also as sides, you know, the poor salary structure. Are there other things that, you know, the railway and the railway system, you know, lacks, you know, and you've also noticed that you would also like the government to improve on, you know, with regards to, you know, the whole functioning of the Nigerian railway system? Yes, certainly. There are a lot of things. Let me start from the workers' welfare. There are a lot of things, you know, allowances are not being paid. As I talk to you, we have workers that are owing areas of promotion from 2018, 2019, 2020 that are yet to be attended to. We have made a lot of complaints over that. And nobody is saying anything at the moment. So we equally have situations whereby staff are lacking houses to stay. In fact, government is still employing workers in railway. But accommodation became a very, very serious problem, especially to those who are here in Lagos, Potacot, Kano, and big cities. So, and as I talk to you, even those who run those trains within those exits we are talking about, by the time they drive trains from here, for instance, to Ibadan, where to stay becomes a problem. So we have told the government to build accommodation that is rest houses, where drivers and the train crews will stay conveniently and comfortably till the end of their journey. And we have agitated that at the end of your journey, just like in the past, allowances were paid before salaries were even paid. And that was paid separately, you know. So all these are not longer in place over a very long time now. So we are agitating that all those things that workers normally enjoy in the past shall be brought back to the organization as that will motivate workers to do and put in their best. Then coming to the other side, we are still calling on government not to abandon the narrow gauge. They are modernizing the standard gauge. Yes, we are in support and we quite agree. But when you check the narrow gauge, the narrow gauge cuts across 26 states of Nigeria. So if the narrow gauge is being put into efficient use, Nigerians will be happy because that will have the reason to cut down the cost of food because cost of food in the market are determined by cost of transportation. So rail transport system is normally the cheapest means of transportation in a country. So if government puts in this in place and also to care of the workers welfare, I think Nigerians will be happy, the workers will be happy. And we would have no reason to go for any warning strike or to agitate for downing of troops. Where are your workers currently sleeping? So when they arrive at the train station, where do they sleep? When they arrive at the train station, at times they hang around with friends, at times they sleep with colleagues who are within the vicinity of the stations. So that is not good for the workers. It's not motivating at all. So as a long term, what do you think that government can do? Like, you know, to solve the problem generally, where should government start from, you know, to solve the problem of the railway workers so that we can get effective performance? In fact, number one, a permanent solution is what we are looking for. That is they should approve the enhanced salary structure. Let it take effect with immediate effect. That will motivate us to put in our best. Then gradually, government can bring in other things we are agitating for, like building of operational rest houses. That can't be done in a day. And so that we know it's a gradual thing that government will let us do. But what they can do within their reach, it doesn't take long to do the process of enhanced salary structure and begin to pay workers. It doesn't take long. So that government can do within the shortest possible time. And then other things like infrastructural development and the rest of them and later coming gradually, that we understand. So that is our expectation for now. Yeah. Is there a way that, you know, the National Assembly can also be brought into the conversation because you mentioned that, you know, it was placed in the 2021 budget, but sadly got to the National Assembly and it was taken out. And so is there a way that you can also, you know, is there any plan of lobbying, you know, going on with regards to National Assembly to ensure that that doesn't repeat itself? Certainly a lot of lobbying has to be done in National Assembly because no enhanced salary can be paid to any worker without passing through the legislative process. So even if the president grants approval today, it has to pass through the process at National Assembly, Salaries and Wages Commission, Budget and Planning. All these are people that are involved in doing this process. So of course, a lot of lobbying will have to go on with the National Assembly and all these places I mentioned so that we can achieve this within the shortest possible time. Okay. And some other thing I want to ask of is security and, you know, the occupational hazards, you know, that your workers have to of course pass through as they carry out their, you know, their duties. You know, how much of a concern is this? If you remember, not long ago, we spoke about a rail track that was bombed by allegedly by insurgents or bandits. So are these security concerns also things that bother your workers? And are there conversations on the occupational hazards that real workers have to pass through that aren't even been, you know, spoken about? Thank you very much. You see, we have what they call the group life assurance. That group life assurance has not been effective in railway at all because we are not aware of anybody that has been paid insurance in the occurrence of maybe debt, especially when you are on duty. We have no such incidents. So now we have agitated that personal life insurance should be given to especially the train crews. Then hazard allowance be introduced to the railway workers salary because railway workers are working in hazardous environment. And so these two things are not in place at all as far as railway worker is concerned. So I feel if government will introduce this and make it very effective, we will be happy. Look at the recent incidents of the bomb attack in Abu Jaqadunah line. Supposing anything happens to those drivers there, it will interest you to know that the passengers are insured. If anything happens to any passenger there, insurance company will pay in terms of treatment, in terms of debt. But nothing happens, nobody pays anything to the driver. That is to the nest of king of the drivers. So you can imagine the irony, the person doing the job trying to save like that driver will recommend him very, very well, which of course we expect that the national award be given to that driver who drove that train that day. Because supposing he had panic and maybe put this train to a stop at that point, so many lives would have been lost or so many people would have been kidnapped. So because we do not know the intention of those who planted the bomb and you know at the end of the, immediately after the explosion, there were shots all over the locomotive. All the intention was to get at the driver because they believed if the driver is being killed, the train will stop and then they will perform their operations. So imagine if something had happened to that driver that day, all you will be paid the job by real expenses and that's all. They will pay to the family. So that's not fair. So we have told them that there is need for this personal life insurance that at the event of death, the Nest of King has no business with going to any office in Abuja or this or that. All they have to do is to just have a direct contact with the insurance company for the claims of the insurance cover on their deceased. Do you also see a possibility of government responding to some of the concerns that you have raised as regards the welfare of the workers? We have reached out that the time to go on to three days one is right. All the big men that travel on our train will have the reason to see to the need to equally learn their voices in our agitations. And I'm sure by the time it gets to the president of Nigeria, our problems will be solved. All right. I also want to bring something up. Not long ago we saw a video clip of a train that was picking up passengers but not at a train station. Now this happened I believe somewhere in Delta State. Picking up passengers along the track. I'm not sure exactly where this happened. But are these some of the things that railway workers are having to do in order to make some extra money? This is very weird by the way. That sounds very very funny of course because I saw the video and it is very unfortunate that people do not know how railway operates. There are stations that we call the Holt Station. H-A-L-T. Holt Station. I want to define that station to you now. This is a station where no physical building is seen but it's a station that is in between the two stations that you see physical building. The intention is to identify a community who normally have a large turnout of people that indicate interest in traveling by rail. Even you, as I talked to you, if there's a railway line in your village and the station is far from your village, you could put up application and when you put up application to railway management, they will come, they will inspect, and then if you meet up the requirements, they will approve a Holt Station in that village. And so that station is equally like the normal station that you see the physical building where trains will stop, pick passengers and their luggage, and then move to another location. So that wasn't an intention of say drivers stop on section in order to pick passengers to make money for their pockets. That station, that Holt Station you see, there's a railway staff that is posted there to sell tickets to estimate goods, amounts to be paid for goods and the services that will be rendered to every passenger that travels from that station. So it's a legal station that is meant for trains to stop, to pick and drop passengers on daily basis. I don't know much about trains. I've never been on a train, so I wouldn't be able to argue about the Holt Station or not. It just looked like it was somewhere in the bush and passengers were taking advantage of that. Yeah, there's a community close by there. I forgot the name, they gave that very station, but normally they name it after the village that the station is located. So it's a legal station that is recognized by railway authority. Okay, well, we would of course look for that or look deeper into that. You made mention earlier about the standard gauge and of course what did you call it, the small gauge lines now? Narrow gauge. Narrow gauge, I beg your pardon, yes. So share with us exactly the value that the narrow gauge would give to the country if we have that fully functional also. Okay, thank you very much. I want to assure you that the narrow gauge cuts across 26 states in Nigeria. So by estimation, when a train moves from Lagos to Kano, in the past, when the narrow gauge was fully functional, we had trains moving from Kano to Potakot. And if that train is going to Potakot, it leaves Lagos to Kaduna, from Kaduna to Kafanchan, from Kafanchan, Makodi, Makodi and then Potakot. So imagine the number of villages that this train will pass through. And among those villages, we have the whole stations too, where train stops to pick passengers and their loggages. So imagine the kind of food that will be moving from the south to the north, from the north to the east, and from the east back to the north and all over the country. I assure you today that foods are so expensive in Lagos, especially in the whole country even, but especially in Lagos, because if foods that are being cultivated in the north are to be transported down to Lagos, for instance, if they are bringing them by route, a truck will convey that food, for instance, from Jaws to Lagos at the cost of 650,000 Naira. So and that is conveying only 30 tons to Lagos. So now by the time the owner of the foodstuff gets his food here, that 600,000 Naira goes into the cost that the consumer will pay in purchasing those food items. So but when you travel, when you are transported by rail, our full wagon carries one and a half trailer. We have a 39-tonner wagon, we have 40-tonner wagon, and that is equivalent to almost one and a half trailer. And the cost of transporting it from for instance Jaws to Lagos is not as much as that. And so you can imagine by the time those food items are transported down to Lagos at a cheaper rate, they would have no reason to make them expensive in the market. So that is why we are insisting that federal government should purchase more locomotives, more coaches, more wagons for the narrow gauge so that let me tell you my brother, when you go to other countries where the same railway operates, you will see that in those countries goods that are heavy does not move, are not moved by road for more than 100 kilometers. They are transported by rail. And once they move by rail to the location, vehicles can now come and evacuate to the nearest location. So if that is done, our roads in Nigeria will last longer. Our roads in Nigeria will be safe because the heavy duty vehicles are contributing a lot in damaging our roads. Roads that are constructed today, I assure you within the next one year or two years, they will be bad again. Why? Because the railway system is not being put into effective use. If that is, if railway system, especially the narrow gauge is effective, then we will have no reason for this. Then government will even decide that nobody should transport any bulky goods for more than 100 kilometers from one location to the other. And if that is done, our roads will be safe, food will be cheaper in the market. And you'll see one of the safest means of transportation is the railway. Imagine that bomb blast that took place between Abuja Kaduna rail line. Supposing it was a motor car or an airplane. What do you think would have happened? It would have been cut out and a lot of lives would be lost. So to some extent, the trend is safe in terms of attack by hoodlooms, in terms of movement from one location to the other. So these are the economic values that are attached to the railway system. An effective railway system develops a country. An effective railway system makes life easier for workers, for farmers, and for everybody in the country. If we have effective railway system in Nigeria, I assure you, the economy we are crying every day that is biting so hard, things are expensive, things are bad, it will come down to the barest minimum. All right. So do you think that or is the railway system having enough patronage when compared to other means of transportation like the airways and the road? Are we really having enough patronage? And if we're not having enough patronage, then what can be done to increase that patronage here in Nigeria? The patronage is drastically very, very low because the distance that the train covers does not cover the distance that the patronage will be had. Legos to Ibadan is just 120-something kilometers. So Kaduna to Abuja is just 116 or 20 kilometers. So, but if that rail line will be extended to Kanu, to Kathina, to Sokoto, and connect the entire state capital, I assure you, nobody will travel by air or by route. They will all patronize the railway. So at the moment, the patronage now, I can't say it is okay because that is not what we expect. In the past, when the train is moving from here to Kanu, it would have conveyed over 2,000 passengers. Some will be dropping at their various location while others are liking it. So you see that is when we can see the system is very, very effective. But I mean, we can say the patronage is fine. But for now, the patronage is low because of the distance. So, but if locomotive will be purchased for the narrow gauge coaches, war guns, and the rest of them, I assure you that nobody will travel by air or by route because of the safety of our trains. Mr. Aditya, share with us. Our railway or the whole function of the system, are you people having to cut costs with the running of these locomotive trains? Or is the government funding, you know, every aspect of it well enough? Yes, the government funded the organization by bringing the infrastructure in place. But we are generating money that is running the cost of, I mean, that is taking care of the cost of running those trains. Government doesn't put in any money any longer to run the trains we are running in Nigeria. Okay, I'm just really, really shocked and sad that, like you've said, what according to what you've said, you know, there hasn't been any actual review of worker salaries on the moment since 1983. That's the last time that that was had. But over time, I'm sure you can confirm over time that, you know, the trains have still been running, maybe not as much as they have been since 2015, but trains have still been running across the country since in the last couple of decades. Is that confirmed? Yes, yes, that's very correct. Let me tell you, during Abacha, he purchased 50 locomotives. That is the 2101 class local. And that has served us for some time, including wagons and coaches. And that has served the narrow gauge for some time because there wasn't any standard gauge as of then. So and during Goodluck Jonathan, he purchased 25 locomotives. That is the 2201 class locomotive. And those locals are still some of them are still serving us till today in this country. And those are the locals. What do you mean by some and why some? Yeah, yeah, it has to be some because some of the locals are granted. So the few ones we have that are still functional are the ones that are still serving the corporation. Why are they grounded? Yeah, they are grounded because some of them, the spare parts are not there to maintain them. And you know, at times, Nigerian factor, when something is damaged, a kind of cannibalization will take place, maybe removed from here and fixed in there, removed from there to make sure that the corporation moves. That's actually one of the reasons that I ask the question about if the government is funding every other aspect of it, besides your welfare, you know, the other aspects of running a railway system, is it properly funded? Because if the former president Goodluck, Jonathan purchased 25 trains, you've said some of them are grounded, you know, and you've said that because of course the spare parts aren't available. It makes me wonder what happens when you know, the next one breaks down. Will it be fixed or is it going to join the list of those that have been grounded? And certainly, God bless you. You see, there has been a little neglect from the government in the past, because most of these locals that came came without spare parts. And then the union then who was in charge then kept complaining that government should bring spare parts, government should bring spare parts because a lifespan of the locomotive is 30 years. And these locals haven't attended the 30 years of being brought into Nigeria, and they have not attended the 30 of being put to use in Nigeria. And so you can see that we have a lot of them grounded. So which of course, government is supposed to do that funding because railway cannot generate much money that can afford to purchase spare parts from for this locomotive. So that is our greatest fear. Even this particular ones we are talking about, Kaduna, Abuja, that has been our fear too. We keep insisting that spare parts should be brought. Let me tell you a little story. In the past, we have the local 1801 class and the local 1701 class. Local 1801 class and 1701 class served this nation for over 50 years, because as at the time the white men were bringing those locals, they brought more than enough spare parts. And as I talk to you now, we still have some of the spare parts of these locals in our workshops. And yet most of the locals are not longer functional. So you can imagine the vision of the white man because those locals were brought by the white man because local 1801 was built by Americans, the local 1701 was built by Canadians. And so when they were bringing them, they brought a lot of spare parts. So even this particular ones we have right now, we are insisting that government shouldn't let this one start getting grounded before they begin to think of bringing spare parts. Spare parts are supposed to accompany these locals. How many trains are running Abuja Kaduna? In a day, we have about eight trains in a day. Okay, so you have also mentioned that let's come back to the strike action that you're threatening to embark on three days for that matter. Now you have mentioned that if after three days the government does not respond, you get back to work, should we expect more strike action, more and more of it, you know, until your demands have been met? We will do everything within the confines of the law to make sure that we struggle for our workers. And whatever the law says is what we will follow. So after the three days to want a strike, if they do not respond, we will go back to the drawing table, check the law, and then put into use what the law says about that. So no more strikes? There could be strikes because I believe that's the only language the government understands. In the past 20 years, regular workers have never gone on strike. Check your records, find out. Why? Because we've been patient and we've been praying and believing that it shall be well, it shall be well. But the more we pray and the more we pray, we hope that it shall be well. It's the darker it becomes for us. So that's why we have no option than to behave like other colleagues in other organizations that have embark on strike to make the agitation known to everybody. Okay. Well, it's a pretty, you know, interesting picture, you know, and a sad one at the same time, hearing about the welfare of these workers, you know, 26,000 naira is too poetry or something to be paid to anybody as a salary at the end of the month. And we hope, you know, and I think you notice what I would say, I hope that since we have, of course, put in more energy and more interest in the railway system in Nigeria, that this, you know, will be considered and, you know, the Nigerian government will actually take it serious and pay railway workers better. Whose responsibility will it be or should it be to speak about the unavailability of spare parts for these trains? Should that be your responsibility also? It is our responsibility because in as much as we're agitating for workers' welfare, we equally want the organization to grow. We equally want the organization to function because the more functional it is, the better for us and the better for the entire country and for the economy of the country. We want to use railway as an avenue to contribute our own quota to the economic system of the country and to the welfare of Nigeria. We are glad that we are serving Nigerians. We are glad that Nigerians are happy traveling by rail. My brother, let me assure you that nobody wants to go on strike. But when death is at home on your request, that are very, very genuine and genuine, what option do you have? That's the only option available for labor. Has it always been eight trains running Abuja Kaduna? Sorry? Has there always been eight trains running Abuja Kaduna, like you mentioned, or there more before? There are days we have like six trains because they run according to Shedula and according to Patronik. So there are days we have six trains in a day. There are days we have eight trains. Now what I'm asking is, has it always been a maximum of eight? Yeah, it has been. But of recent, the management we are thinking of even increasing to 10 or so what they are about. But I'm not too sure whether that has been done. Okay. I would, of course, continue to follow up. I hope that we can continue to share these thoughts and have these conversations with regards to the lifespan of these trains and hope that they don't continue to break down. You said the Goodluck Jonathan Government purchased 25. Do you have any idea how many of those trains are fully functional and how many have broken down? I don't think we have up to 10. I stand to decorate it. But I don't think we have up to 10 locomotives or 15 locomotives that are still functional from the one Goodluck Jonathan brought. Among the ones President Abacha brought, I don't think we have up to two or three that are still functional. So these are the things that are... So how many, I don't know if you have the figures, how many fully functional trains do we have across the country currently? And I'm talking about the passenger trains, the ones running... Lagos Ibadu and, of course, Wari Takbe. Lagos Ibadu and its standard gauge. So standard gauge is fully operational. That I'm not saying anything about it for now. But what my concern is, is the narrow gauge. And as I talk to you, the narrow gauge runs only one train from Lagos to Kano. On weekly basis, once in a week, it runs pipes depending on the time they deliver and come back and reload and move. It runs pipes constantly between Lagos to Kano. Then we have a passenger train that runs twice or twice in the week. I stand to be corrected between Kano and Unguru. Then we have another train running, I think on daily basis, between Aba and Potacot. So those are the trains we have on the narrow gauge. But for standard gauge, we are perfectly working very well. We have no issues there. So for the trains that you say have been grounded, why haven't they been fixed? I mean, these are resources that are tied down and it would go a long way in increasing the performance of, you know, the rail system. Yeah, because government have not made available spare parts. So we are still calling on government to see to the need to bring spare parts so that we have engineers that can revive these locals. If the spare parts are made available, we don't need to do any outside that are to come and fix them. We can do them ourselves. So if government will make available the spare parts, these locals will be back on their feet and they will be functional. Is government in the know that your need of spare parts, you know, to fix this? I have mentioned it several times. I have mentioned it even there was a time I had an opportunity to meet with the House of Reps Committee on Land Transport, sometimes early this year. I mentioned it to them. So government are aware because each time we talk, we see because you see when there is no locomotive that is functional. What are we going to be doing in railway? Government will have no reason to keep railway workers because they cannot be keeping people and be paying them salaries for not doing anything at all. So we have the fear that if spare parts are not being brought, our jobs could be in danger. So that's why we keep agitating that please let these spare parts come so that we can be fixing these locals as they are getting issues so that our work will continue. That is our target. And like you also said, these aren't even new trains. So, you know, they have of course a lifespan that has run before they eventually brought to Nigeria and they of course are running out, you know, on that same lifespan. It could break down at any point. Settling. Settling. All right. I think we can wrap up the conversation here. Comrade Inocentuka, Gigi, the President General, National Union of Railway Workers. Thank you very much. Like you said, there would likely be a three day one in strike from the 18th. And after that, of course, you know, you are back to work. You know, and of course the conversation with the Minister and with the Nigerian Government continues. But of course, it's going to be very, very stressful for Nigerians in those three days. I'm sure that you agree with that. Where are we? All right. Thank you very much for joining us this morning. We, of course, will look forward speaking with you again. Thank you very much for having me. Absolutely. All right. I totally enjoyed that conversation. And it's mostly because of me being fascinated with the railway system and seeing it. You need to get on the train. Yeah, I absolutely do. If it wasn't, you know, live television, I probably would have asked in other details. Just for my own, the little boy in me, you know, that little bit of excitement. You should. I mean, there's one here. Tell me what this button does, you know. How fast does it go? Those random questions. I really enjoyed it. But anyway, besides, you know, the funny aspects of it, you know, what's mainly serious here is the fact that railway workers demand a review of their salaries. 26,000 Naira makes absolutely no sense to be paid to anybody in today's Nigeria. Seeing the price of goods and items, seeing how much rent is currently costing, and of course, some of the other things that he also mentioned, the welfare of these workers, the person who is going to be maintaining those train tracks, the person maintaining those locomotives, even if there are no spare parts, the person also, you know, driving the trains. I think they're called drivers or pilots. I'm not sure about that. The person, you know, moving the trains from one seat to the other does not, you know, deserve 26,000 Naira a month of salary. So I hope it's something, you know, that is taken seriously and, you know, something that's... Especially when we're talking about the issue of, you know, insecurity. This is not to make an excuse, but I mean, I am thinking, sitting down here thinking about 26,000 Naira, and how you're going to, you know, leave for some persons that do have families, how do they have to pay the bills, the rents, and probably have kids who have to be in school, and also have extended family who will be dependent on them. I think we need to do better as a people. Let's pay attention to the hand that lays the golden end. If I was a train, I would definitely carry along. If I was one of the train drivers, I would stop at random spots and pick up passengers. But that's bad. All right, this is what we call it a wrap. Of course, if you missed out on any part of the conversation, it's all right to follow us on Facebook and Instagram. It's a class TV Africa and on YouTube to be part of the conversation that you missed out on. I am Messi Boko. Have a great Monday morning.