 Did you know that there are over 2,200 known religions in the world? We are all born into one belief, religion, or faith, which influences how we see the world and everything and everyone in it, including ourselves. Do our beliefs divide and separate us, or do they bring us together in greater harmony? When you look up with awe on a star-filled night, do you ask who or what created all of this? Have you ever had a profound or deeply challenging experience in your life that changed your beliefs at the core of your being? Enlightened Pathways takes us on a journey of discovery to understand just how spiritual transformational experiences impact our lives and the world around us. Join us now as we deeply explore all that nourishes, heals, and inspires us. Welcome to Enlightened Pathways. My name is Robert Kibbeke and I am your host for today's show. Today, our special guest is Stephen Brent. Welcome. I've known Stephen for at least 20 years now and have had the privilege of watching him grow through his spiritual evolution over those years. Stephen lives in the Hudson Valley just north of New York City, where he makes music and visual art at his home as his work-life schedule allows. In his latest short film, Imprint of Light, won the Best Spiritual Mystical Film Category Award at the Amsterdam International Film Festival in 2021. How cool is that, right? He is a student and practitioner in the Western esoteric traditions and seeks to bring this perspective to the work of creating art and living life. Please welcome my dear friend and special guest, Stephen Brent. Thanks, Robert. Great to be here. I'm glad you're here. You drove all the way up just to be here for the show. I was just driving by and I saw that you had a TV show, so I thought I'd pop in. It's a little 300-mile detour. Let's go into the supermarket. Okay. Okay. You know, some detours lead in very interesting places. Yes. And you have certainly landed in one. We're in it now. Yes. You know, Stephen and I have been talking a lot over the last 24 hours and we're both afraid that we've run out of things to talk about. Yeah. We'll find something. Well, why don't we start with the easy stuff? You know, it's like, why don't we talk about, or you just talk about for a couple of minutes, like, you know, where you grew up and the kind of belief system that you were born into and what kind of impact that had on your early life? Sure. So I grew up in the suburbs, kind of really close to where I live now of New York. Middle-class Jewish family without much in the way of religious indoctrination or practice. There was kind of, it was kind of like the reform temple around there. And that was, it was pretty, it was fairly secular. Like the one, I wasn't really exposed to hardcore religious belief or anything. And in my house, it was more, it was more about irreverence than anything else. There was nobody ever told me what not to believe or to believe in. But for me, my religion was really mad magazine and Bugs Bunny. And I was really into UFOs and big, it was like a golden age for paranormal stuff in the late 70s. Yes, it was. And so, so I was really into all that stuff. But I didn't really grow up with any kind of beliefs or disbelief in any, in either direction, to be honest. I remember the Bugs Bunny religion as well, Saturday morning cartoons. I think if I had a religion, it was just like questioning everything and kind of being a smart ass. And so, you know, that hasn't totally gone away. I mean, it's like we were kind of chatting to you the other day, you know, yesterday, you know, it's like when growing up as kids, we're very much influenced by our surroundings and our environment, you know, it's like that's what we do as human beings. We absorb, you know, and we mimic what we see, you know, and that's how we, that's how we survive at a young age, right? So we see things on TV and it's, wow, it must be TV, it must be real, even though it's a cartoon, but the messages get imprinted, right? So a lot of time, I know for me, that was a lot of the case, right? But when you, well, maybe like how old were you when you started to realize that, I might realize, but maybe there was a time when you started to look for a belief system that actually supported you? Well, there's a couple of things that happened. One was in my late 20s, I entered recovery for drug and alcohol addiction. There was a real spiritual component there. It was non-denominational, but one was encouraged to find anything that one could cling to that was greater than oneself, you know, just even as a, just as a survival tactic, whether you believed it or not, then to just sort of act like that. So in other words, there is something bigger than me. I can sort of give up my troubles to that. I can sort of unburden, reduce the burden of self and just try not to, you know, learn how to not be so wrapped up in myself and my own perspective and sort of take a higher perspective. I never, you know, early on I got pretty hardcore into that and it carried me over like the most difficult period in the years since that didn't really stick so much. And I kind of went back to being more curious about things and wanting to keep exploring. Probably it's in the last, right, maybe about six months before the pandemic. I went through some difficult times with my mother who had suffered an accident and needed a lot of care. And there was a lot of uncertainty and turmoil around that. So we were all kind of caretaking for her. At the same time, I was trying to start a new job and I was kind of failing at that because of the stress. And I started to feel like I could feel my identity breaking down through crisis. And so I started to get interested in, I wouldn't say belief systems, but I got interested in finding other perspectives and other practices to sort of, for mental health reasons, if nothing else. And so I discovered a lot of the traditional teaching, the esoteric teachings of a lot of different religions and have continued studying that and doing some practice around that. And that was really, so it was really over the course of the pandemic. I think that brought me back to that. And it's not that I've settled on any belief system because I don't put much stock in belief. I think belief is just another word for opinion. And I don't hold opinions sacred, not mine or anybody else's. I'm really more interested in practice. I'm more interested in discovery and finding out the truth for myself. That's fantastic. And there's a couple of things that I want to pick out of that. First of all, is that you mentioned that up until you got into recovery that you did not have a religion or a belief system or faith that you followed. What was it that you thought was, I don't want to say supporting or keeping you going emotionally, mentally or spiritually? I couldn't even tell you. I mean, for so much of my life, I was just kind of on autopilot. And I didn't really think about these things too much. It was more like when you're focused on pain management, psychic pain management 24 hours a day, it doesn't leave a lot of room for genuine introspection or taking any kind of, again, I use the word perspective because for me, so much of spirituality has to do with being able to shift my perspective and literally see things from different angles instead of trying to figure everything out from this very limited perspective. Right. And yeah, I'd like to kind of delve deeper into that a little bit in terms of not attaching yourself to the word belief and looking more perspective, and you also mentioned some of the esoteric type of practices that you discovered. Can you discuss a couple of those? Yeah, I'll keep it general. There's I mean, Western esoteric tradition, it's kind of a loose term. It's like a conglomeration of the secret teachings of all the major religions. So, you know, like at a restaurant, you have what's on the menu and then you have the secret menu and like there's all this really cool good stuff on the secret menu. So that's sort of like the secret menu of all the world religions. Every every religion has the exoteric stuff that they for the masses. And then they have secret teachings, generally, that are had throughout history been more protected. Now you can just get everything online. You can get it's in the bookstores. There's no secret anymore. The secret is in the is in the practice itself. That's where the actual magic is. It's not in the study is fascinating, but but it's really in the practice. So that's things like in like tarot, it's things like Kabbalah, it's things like astrology, what's the other one? You know, meditation, yoga. So there's a lot of different there's a lot of different layers to that. And, you know, it's sort of it's sort of a situation where you can you have all these symbols available to you. These are symbolic systems. And there was an attempt made in the late 19th century to to bring them all together into some sort of semi coherent framework of theory and practice, right? And that sort of formed the pattern of all the kind of, you know, what you see as sort of magical practice these days. So for me, it's really a matter of learning the symbolic systems and being able to apply those as tools for for self knowledge and discovery. So it's not it's not a matter of worshipping some exterior thing. It's not it's not a matter of following a dogma or a belief. It's really just it's really just a set of practices for for personal growth. Well, you really. Convade a lot of information right there too much. That's so great. No, I'm just like crossing. It's like, wow, you know, because, you know, you mentioned a couple of different practices in there that, you know, in in my mind, you know, has certain judgments attached to it, you know, like tarot. It's like, oh, tarot, you know, it's it's going to be like this that or the other thing. And it's got a, you know, a more generic societal judgment against it, you know, whereas as I know how I've seen how you practice it, it's like more of a meditative, you're bringing it, you're internalizing it. It's not just something external to do as, you know, as a sideshow trick type of thing. Right, you know, or a corner, you know, palm reader or something like that. There's a real energy to it that you tap into. And once you tap into it, you let that energy in and allow it to evolve you. Right. I mean, it is a very personal thing for me. So I don't I don't I'm not I don't pretend to be an expert. Any of this, I can't speak with authority on any of the things that talk about what I try to do is keep it to how my daily practice of this sure what it means to me. And it's really, again, it's just it's just having tools. It's like having more. It's like having a larger vocabulary, right? So the more the larger your vocabulary, the more the more things you can express, the more, you know, the more complex ideas you can express. So so for me, it's really learning that stuff and internalizing it through through practice. So there's that's with everything else. There's a few layers. There's even just when you think about something like meditation, there's a study of it, you know, here's what it's supposed to mean. Here's the history of it. Here are some practices I can do. And then the third layer and the stuff that's most important, the layer of practice, I think that's most important is when you when you get off the meditation bench or when you get out of the the temple and you bring it out into the real world, how does it, you know, so without that third piece, it's all just kind of, I don't know, it's like entertainment, you know, until you actually put it into practice, it's still very, you can still get very kind of wrapped up in your ego. If you're not testing what you're learning and practicing in in the crucible of the real world, well, it sounds very much to like, you know, in in active drug and alcohol addiction that, you know, I likewise am familiar with, you know, my life was run by my emotions. Right. I didn't have principles or practice. Well, maybe, you know, I mean, going out and finding a drink or a drug is certainly a practice when you'll do anything to get it, you know, but not in the sense that we're discussing here, you know, practicing means to literally try to do something in a quote unquote regimented or consistent way is a better word, a consistent way that produces beneficial results, right? That was not drug addiction and alcohol as a matter of fact, that did not work. No, I mean, there was, right, right. And I'm just making that, you know, connection lightly because I really want to point out that, you know, when we are looking at a practice based life or a principle based life, you know, it's no longer an emotionally based life. My emotions are no longer in charge of my decisions or my beliefs, perceptions, okay? So there's something more powerful in charge. I can learn how to use my emotions as additional energy instead of as the only energy. Well, yeah. And I think one thing actually I've started to just recently started to work with is like a lot of people I know who had issues with addiction. You know, I was very, I was very, I'm very sensitive and intuitive. And so I get a lot of information kind of in the background that I didn't always know how to process. And, you know, a lot of what I went through is really kind of, it is sort of a perfection, you just, you know, when you're doing things that are bad for you, you keep doing them over and over and you kind of get better and better at it. So in a way it is sort of like practice to the point where it's in the second nature and you don't even think about it. So unwinding that in the process of recovery and then learning new practices and applying that same focus and discipline rather to self-destruction than the self-realization, you know, it's sort of, it's a total shift. I mean, for what I realized recently about intuition is that even though I receive information in that way, I can't always trust that information. You know, I sort of went around being like, oh, I'm intuitive and empathic and I, so I know what's going on all the time and I know what everybody's thinking. And, you know, and like maybe sometimes you do, but I think it's just another, it's another wavelength. It's another frequency. It doesn't necessarily guarantee that the quality of that information is going to be good. So I feel like, like you're saying emotions, it's information, but I need to be able to turn my attention and my skepticism and my analysis towards that like everything else and not just, not just, I mean, yes, some of those times when you just have to go with your gut when you need to make a snap decision, but most situations in life aren't like that. In most situations you have the opportunity to sort things out and actually think clearly, but I think we just sometimes we react before we get a chance to do that. So a lot of the practice that I'm involved with has a lot to do with mental and physical control and just getting to a place where you can be still and quiet enough to really see what's there and not just be wrapped up in the story all the time, you know. Yeah, being wrapped up in the story all the time. That's a big deal, you know, and that's where the majority of us live. That's where, you know, the majority of my time lived, you know, for a long time until I learned how to affect that. You know, so what in your practices and learning about these different, you know, esoteric Western practices, what have you discovered to be difficult, the most difficult thing to practice, but the one thing that maybe or maybe one thing that you really want to learn? I mean, for me, the most difficult thing to practice is just keeping with it is really just the discipline itself of maintaining and building good daily habits, you know, because I tend to, with a lot of things, you know, it's easy to get into a pattern of really working to develop a habit. And there's this weird thing that happens to a lot of people where just when it starts to work, and then it's like, okay, well, I'll take a day off and it's sort of like creating that, you know, creating that little gap where you can backslide a little bit. So I'm really learning how to power through those and not let that happen. So and just in general, one thing that is necessary for for all of this stuff, no matter what you're doing is, is that mental focus and being able to either turn down the mental chatter and all this stuff going in or be able to just power through it. And so a lot of the time I do the latter. It's like, okay, I'm just going to keep letting you talk, but I'm doing this thing now and I'm going to focus consciously on this as much as I can. And that helps sometimes. I think in part of the, you know, part of the meditation practice is this, this asana that I think I told you about, which is really it's not relaxation. It's quite the opposite. It's holding, it's holding a, holding a pose and very having a very, a lot of control of your body and your breath and your mind to the point where there's not really room for anything else, you know. Is there something that you maybe started the practice that you started to find yourself interested in, but then during the process you're like, maybe this isn't for me? I think, you know, there's again, we're kind of, we're kind of lost in the spiritual supermarket. We have so many, we have so many choices here in this time and place in history that you can really get wrapped up in a lot of, chase a lot of different things than a lot of different rabbit holes. And so for me, I would say something like astrology is something I only find superficially interesting. And, but it's, it's again, there's, I don't put a lot of stock in it as a, as a determination of one's, the course of one's life, although I think it does have interesting hooks into your personality and character. And again, it's, so I can kind of use that as a symbolic, another symbolic language. That's another layer in the whole thing, right? And it corresponds to other things. So I think that's really cool, but I, I know people have a real facility for that and just seem to take right to it. And then they're posting on Instagram all the time about right at what different signs are like. And I'm just, I don't, I don't feel that. So that's, that's a specific practice. I would say that doesn't, doesn't really work for me. I mean, I think that works best for me really is playing the guitar. So when I'm playing the guitar, that's my most direct connection with spiritual energy. It's not ritualized as such, but practice can kind of be like that. You know, there's a difference why you're talking about practice is a difference between just doing something or picking up the guitar and really practicing with that, that sort of, that sort of focus. So I'm learning how to do that a little bit better to kind of bring more, bring more intention and focus to my, my guitar playing. And you were just recently at a nicer treat. Yeah, where you really learned how to, you know, take your, I was going to say, you know, take your skills to another level, but you learned some things that were unfamiliar to you, you know. And so how have you begun to integrate those into your practice? Well, I think this is something that professional athletes know very well, which is that when you're practicing, you pay attention to very small tweaks to things. You notice just there, just, just something about the angle of the way you're holding the guitar or something when you're, you know, whatever you're doing. And that really, that's where the, that's where these huge breakthroughs can come from. It's not like, no, no, you're doing all wrong. It's more like this time instead of, you know, pushing down with this much pressure, you know, apply this much pressure or maybe just a slight adjustment to the angle of something. And so, and that's the kind of discipline I've sort of been lacking. I was, I, when I learned how to play the guitar, I just, I was very lazy about it. I was like, if it's good enough to make noise, that's great. But then I realized I couldn't create the kind of music I heard in my head. And so it wasn't really about becoming an amazing player. It was about, listen, this, this is a tool. This is a vehicle for, for spiritual expression. I should really honor that and I should really take the time to develop a relationship with that, these tools so that I can, you know, so that they can be of service to me and not just be a way of making noise. I saw, I, I so relate to that in, in a lot of ways, you know, in, in my own creativity that's been making itself present to me over the past couple of years, you know, starting to paint and do artwork and even playing music myself, you know, and writing music and what have you. You know, it's like this morning, you know, I woke up with this song in my head and I'm like, started, you know, say, hey, have you heard this before? He's like, no, we tried to figure it out. And I started, you know, banging it out on my glock and spiel and the piano and then the synthesizer, you know, and then tried to figure out this is something that I heard somewhere and it's like, you know, and a lot of times I would dismiss my creativity, but because I didn't have the skill sets to actually recreate what it was that I wanted to create, you know, and, and that is something that I recognize in a lot of people. It's like, well, I don't know how to do that, so I'm just not going to do it. I've got a great idea to do it, but I don't know how. So, you know, so it's not about knowing how, knowing how is like the least, you know, so to speak, important thing. It's more about being willing and open to embrace whatever practices that enable me, right? And so once I've learned these different practices in myself and my own artwork and what have you, I've been able to create, you know, what I, to me anyway, it's pretty cool stuff, you know, it may not be anybody else, but just like everything's got a perception and an interpretation. And, you know, so there's no judgment there. My point is that, you know, I think that what I hear a lot from people is that, well, if you don't know how to do something, just don't do it. You know, don't bother, don't waste your time. You know, but that's not how us human beings are configured to evolve. We're curious. And I think curiosity is like one of the most powerful things. Yep. Right. And your curiosity has allowed you to create magnificent things in your life. Yeah, I mean, you focus on your strengths, but you work to identify the gaps in your, in your strengths and focus on the weaknesses within your strengths and you zero in on those. The things that are easy don't need that much attention. It's the things that you tend to skip over or avoid because they're difficult. You know, anything I've ever achieved that was worth anything in my mind. There was a point during that process where I just came up against this difficulty and I wanted to stop, you know, maybe several times a day, you know, but everything that I've ever done that's that I like, there was an element of pushing, pushing through difficulty or fear, you know, it's almost like a cliche, but it's really true. Like that's like they say, don't quit five minutes before the miracle. Right. Right. That applies to so many things. You know, yeah, it does. So we've only got just a handful of minutes left here. Where's the time going? The time's just going, man. And you're afraid you weren't going to have anything to talk about. I'm going to do an hour next time. We do. You know, so, you know, what would you like to share? What was like, what's one of the most important, you know, quote unquote, golden nuggets that you've discovered that you might feel comfortable sharing with folks in your spiritual journey? I know that's one of those open questions. Yeah, you know, I mean, just based on where I am right now, if I was, if I'll put it this way, if I was talking to myself, you know, 10 years ago or maybe even in recovery, right, even during the long 25 years that I've been in recovery and been, you know, my growth hasn't been, you know, it hasn't been a straight rocket ship blast. You know, it's been, it's been a journey, but I would, you know, if I was talking to myself and giving some encouragement, I would just basically, I would just say, you know, you have everything you need already, right? You are everything you need to be already. Stop waiting for something or someone else to come in and complete you or to give you what you need, you have what you need, and you just need to learn the instrument of your body and your mind and learn how to use those and learn how to direct energy, get clear on what your aims are and learn how to direct your energy towards those. And really nothing can stand in your way if you do that. That's brilliant. I've never quite heard it said so perfectly. I had to scramble to come up with something that I'm glad that worked. It worked beautifully, you know, and it's like, wow, you know, you really tied it together really well. You know, because a lot of people are struggling, you know, a lot of people don't know where to start or they start and they fall down, start and fall down. You know, it's like yesterday we were, we were down at Eastern Promenade, you know, and grabbed a little Bon Mise sandwich and sat on the, that was so good, right? You know, oh my god, you know, but and then we started walking downhill and you made this comment, you know, about walking, you were walking fast. I was walking slow because I was eating really slow. And, you know, I said, hey, you know, it's slow down. You're like, well, you know, walking is this thing where it's like you're, you're falling and then preventing yourself from falling over and over again. That's a Laurie Anderson thing. Yeah. That was, that was her, her riff on, you know, on what walking is. Yeah. You know, and but it's like, isn't that the thing because it's like, what about failure? Oh, I'm afraid to fail. So I don't do anything because you're not going to do anything because you're afraid to fail, but it's just like walking. You put one foot out in front of the other and sometimes you trip over yourself. That doesn't stop you from getting back up and walking again. Order fail and fall have the same root, the word. That would be really cool to find out. Failing forward, right? It's kind of failing forward. Just whatever you're doing, if you're screwing up, at least, you know, screw up in the right direction. You know, use the momentum of that to get you right to the next thing, you know, so falling back or to the side, right? Right. Just keep moving forward. Yeah. At least if you fall forward, you are going in the right direction. Exactly. I love that, you know, it's like, all right. So, you know, it's, um, and that just reminds me of my favorite Walt Disney quote, you know, it's just keep moving forward. Yes. You know, I just love that. I say, I'll just keep moving forward, you know, and the thing is, is, you know, keep moving forward even when you don't want to. Keep swimming. Just keep swimming. Just wait. We have to be careful. We can't say that too many times on TV. Oh, sorry. Yeah. We don't want to break any copyright rules. Sorry. Just keep swimming. Just keep swimming. How many times are you allowed to say that? I don't know. I'm not going to say it anymore. I know. Sorry. You know, I'd get you in trouble, but that's, you know, but it's like, we tend to complicate things so much, you know, and you gave us really great insight to how to make it really nice and easy. So I really want to thank you, you know, and that's really all the time we have. And unfortunately, but thank you, Steven, for showing up. I will put links to Steven's music and his films on the website. So please visit www.deepbeing.org for more information. And thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Steven. Love you. Love you too, bro. And just a few closing remarks and a shout out to today's executive producer and sponsor Bridge to Heaven Healing and Lepin Lizards, which is the premier source for healing crystals and readings with four locations, including at the main mall here in South Portland, Maine. You can visit www.lepinlizards.biz for more information. Also, a big thanks to our co-executive producer, Dr. Anna Cabeca, the creator of Mighty Maka Plus, the daily nourishing supplement that improves metabolism and reinvigorates the body. Visit DrAnnaCabeca.com for more information. Also, if you would like to get more information about this show to reach out to us or to sponsor us, please visit www.deepbeing.org. We would love to hear from you. And a quick shout out to the crew, director, Patrick McCartney, audio and sound, Warren, and cameras, Travis Nadeau, as well as to the Portland Media Center and their team, Tom, Dino, and Warren. We wouldn't be here without them. Thank you for watching Enlightened Pathways and spending your valuable time with us today. Until next time, play, have fun, be happy.