 I like to say that people don't buy products, they buy ideas. Welcome to the Smarter Building Materials Marketing Podcast, helping you find better ways to grow leads, sales, and outperform your competition. All right, everybody. Welcome to Smarter Building Materials Marketing, where we believe your online presence should be your best salesperson. I am Zach Williams, alongside my co-host, Beth Popnikov. And this is our 200th episode. Congratulations, Beth. You did it. You made it this far. Congratulations to you. I feel like there should be like a cowbell that gets rung or something. That deserves some fanfare. We've been talking about this day for a long time. And I think we want to start just by thanking our listeners. This is a pretty cool milestone for us. And first and foremost, we wouldn't be doing this if you guys weren't listening, if you weren't a part of it. And so we want to just thank the community first and foremost. In addition to that, so we've been looking through the archives and thought to be really valuable to say, you know, if we look at the breadth of our work on the show, what are the things that over 200 episodes have been very insightful to our listeners, but still ring true today? Like we've got some episodes coming up about chat, EPT, and AI, we're talking about changes that are happening to content. We've got some new manufacturers that are going to come on the show. A lot of really excellent content plan for our listeners. But I want to talk, if we can for a moment, about things that we see, that we started this podcast thinking and believing that are still true. So the first and foremost, our slogan for the podcast, even for Venvio, is your online presence should be your best sales person. And I think that if there's anything that's true about marketing today, that's really the case. You know, if you look at how people buy today, if you just look at it from macro standpoint, the biggest change, and Beth, I want to hear your take on this, but the biggest change I've seen is that most companies still market like it's 2012. They think, they think, oh, I'm going to go get a salesperson and I'm going to go, you know, cold call or cold email or whatever it is, introduce my brand, and then I'm going to sell them. And the reality is, and this is something we've seen both for Venvio and for our clients is that what's happening more and more is that people are making the decision before they even have a conversation. The decision is made before a salesperson even engages with somebody because somebody sees you on social, they get a DM, they check out your site, they view your content, they read reviews, all of that is happening, which a lot of times you can't track, but all that is happening to the point where your buyer, your audience has made the decision before they've ever spoken to you. And so your online presence is your best salesperson. Whether you want to believe it or not, the attribution around is your marketing actually helping you land deals? It's a no-brainer at this point. I love people who are like, oh, my marketing does nothing, and I'm like, does it? Or like, doesn't it? Because that's just how we buy it. I'm trying to think about the last thing I bought recently online. Oh, I bought a new, well, I didn't buy it, but like for Christmas, my family got me a new coffee grinder. Oh, yes. It's like a handheld grinder. And like, I did a bunch of research, I talked to people online, offline, I looked at reviews, and I'm like, you, this is a $50 coffee grinder. It's not like something crazy. But like that same type of mentality around a small transaction, like a coffee grinder happens with very large, costly, expensive projects in the building product space, whether that's a homeowner or a more commercial activity, it's all moving online if it hasn't already happened. I mean, I think it's valuable to note that it happens at the $50 level. So how much more at the $2 million level? I was on a podcast with a sales consultant. It was a great conversation. But Bradley Hartman, who you know, he's a great friend of ours, great partner, and he kind of gave me a hard time about our tagline. He's like, hey, I've got some beef about your tagline of your online presence as your best salesperson, because he's like, you know who I want to be your best salesperson? Your best salesperson, which is a great point. And honestly, I think he's saying what a lot of people are thinking. And to Zach's exact point, especially in B2B, we know that you may not literally be selling like sales transactions happening, but your online presence is absolutely the key to a sales partner. If you're, and more to the point, if you aren't online, your sales team is overcoming Everest in every conversation, and it's almost like you don't exist. So it's how we do business today. It's whether it's a $50 coffee grinder. I mean, I think you could take that thought further, Zach, and say, when's the last time you bought something that you had no prior knowledge of? Have you been to Costco? That you just saw on a shelf, other than like Costco meatballs. You know, other than like those impulse buys at the checkout counter, at the grocery store, you don't typically see something, whether it's $50 or $2,000, and just be like, yeah, I'm just going to get that guy. You know, we all do, because if you have information, you use the information. So if you, as the person who has the product to be sold, you've got that platform that gets in front of your customer on a daily basis, it's a no-brainer. I was at an event, I think it was last year, manufacturer brought me in to come speak to their sales team. I did like a sales training and we're about halfway through, I don't know if I told this to you, Beth, we're about halfway through the event. Okay. And this VP of sales executive, he like basically runs the company. We're at a break session. He pulls me backstage and he's like, hey, I just want you to know that half the people in this room will no longer be here next year. And I was like, wow, wow, okay, like time more and he's like, we are really buying into the idea of leveraging digital and we're asking our, we're asking our sales team to buy in and there's a lot of old school thinking, limiting beliefs around how digital impacts, you know, sales transactions. And I just thought that was a really profound viewpoint by this executive to say, Hey, like, we believe in this so much that if these guys are not going to buy in, they're not going to be part of our organization and they've done very well, like they've done extremely well by doing that, but I just love the conviction and I think it's true. It's to your point about your best salesperson should be your best salesperson. Like I get that, but how infinitely more scalable is your website? Like where is, I mean, how much time does your salesperson have to be in front of your audience versus let's say social media? How much time does the average person spend on social media? A ton of time, you know, 2.4 hours every day, a check. Oh, did you really? That's it. Yeah, yeah, that's, so because that's my argument for, cause we get asked that all the time, why do I need to be on social media? And so we did some research and average time people spend online in the US in 2022 was 2.4 hours every single day. So then my question is, let me tell you that, let me tell you that what, what if I told you there's a room that you could, that your audience spends two and a half hours a day inside that room and you can go in that room as much as you want. And you can say basically anything you want, but probably hopefully it's about your product or your sales solutions or the pain points that you solve, you can go in there and your audience will see you, hear you, interact, like watch the things that you put in there every single time. That's a completely different perspective than just a silly Facebook post. Yeah. And I think it just goes to show that the, if you're not able to see the benefit of social, for example, it's probably points to the fact that maybe you don't have the right strategy for it. So the second thing that we wrote down here, Beth, as far as things that ring true throughout the course of our podcast is whoever gets closest wins. And there's this graphic I like to show where it shows disruption that's happened over the last decade, you know, Uber disrupting taxis and Spotify, even disrupting, you know, pirate of music. And what's interesting about that idea of whoever gets closest wins, I think that's really true for manufacturers as well, because it's no longer about the product, like your product might be best, but if you're not creating demand by helping people solve their problems by getting as close as possible to your customer, you're making it much more difficult to win. Like I look at the companies who are succeeding today and they've got excellent digital strategies, but they're also trying to find ways to create demand through their products and things that are around their company, whether that service or speed or they've even got training. You're like, you're starting to see all of these different companies realize that like, Hey, our product is really the back end. The front end is everything else that's a part of the business. So how am I helping my customers win more business? Like I can't tell you how many, you know, manufacturers I've spoken to recently and they're like, Hey, if we can just help you win more business, they'll just continue to use our product. Oh yeah, absolutely. And so now they're like, and then you look at that, you're like, Oh, well, maybe they're more of a lead generation company with a product on the back end. Something that we talk about a lot is also understanding the value that your product actually brings. And one way we see people really succeed in getting closer to the customer is by understanding the true reason that they're buying your product and it's actually beyond features and benefits and color options. And going beyond that and digging at what are the results that they're going to get and making it something that I can understand. Give me a sound bite that I can walk away from as a junior architect and go advocate for your, for your product to the principal or to my client. And giving me something that as a contractor owner, as an owner of a contracting company, I can go to my team and advocate for this is why we're going to start to install this product instead of this is product and this is how it's going to directly improve your projects, your timelines, whatever. But I have to also obviously give the caveat of it's not, it has to be significant, right? We've had that conversation that can't be like safe 5% time. It's got to be a pretty significant benefit. But knowing what are the pain points of your customer and knowing that your number one job is to solve them, not to tell them the number of features, benefits and color changes that you have available. But to say, Hey, this is a problem that you have. And this is the problem that we solve. I like to say that people don't buy products, they buy ideas. You know, so let's say, let's take a decking, for example, decking company comes in and goes, Hey, we're going to, people are going to buy a product because it's stronger. It's got a better warranty. It's got those things. And like, yes, that's true. Like I, there's people I've talked to in the decking industry that are going to choose a product based upon the warranty. But the other day, like people are not buying the product. They're buying the idea that, Hey, my outdoor space is going to be great. I'm buying this product because I'm going to land more business. I'm going to get more work done. I'm going to increase my margins. Like they're buying those ideas. They're not buying the product. The product is just the avenue to that idea. And so many manufacturers don't understand the idea that their customers actually buying. They think it's just my product is better, which is like our last point, which is better. Isn't better, different is better than better. What is different about you? Because people, I'm going to go on a rant here, Beth, but like people don't, they don't remember why you're better. They only remember why you're different. We have such a small capacity to remember key figures and facts about brands that if you want your brand to stand out, you have to really hit home the points of like, Hey, everyone does this and this and this in our industry. Everyone's going to tell you this. This is why we're different. You know, this is what makes us different. And the reason why people remember that is because the way our brain works is we're, we're hardwired and this is especially true for today or hardwired for contrarian thinking and controversy. Well, everyone's saying this, but this is what they're really good at, or this is what, this is why I'm going to, I'm going to specify them, or this is why I'm going to choose them on my next job. Like how many builders have you talked to Beth or contractors or like, they might not believe something that's necessarily true about a product, but the idea is why they continue to use it, meaning like, is the product that much better? No, but, but what it is, is it does speak to an innate need and idea of what they actually want in their lifestyle or, or what they're trying to accomplish on a job site. You know, and I think introducing different is a great way to be memorable, like Zach is saying, because it, you're introducing a question, you're giving them a problem and our brains will just come back and solve that problem. And if you're better, that means you're really saying like what you're doing is not good and not as good. And now you're basically putting me on the defensive, but if it's different, now I'm questioning like, well, what else should I do differently? How is, man, I wonder what difference that would make and you're giving them a problem to solve. So they constantly are just coming back to your product over and over and over. And if nothing else, yeah, they have to make a choice. Exactly. Exactly. I'm trying to think of an example of this in, you know, everyday modern society. Like if I think about, okay, this, I'm going to go off on a linear, like think about the cheesecake factory. Okay, can't wait. Can't wait for this analogy. Yeah. So when I say cheesecake factory, what do you think of their giant giant menu? There you go. That's why they're different. Different. Is it, is the, is the food better? Oh, is the menu better? No. No, is the menu better? Is there, is there service better? No, it's not, but what's different is if I'm, if they have a giant menu. Yeah. I mean, I think about things like that with Starbucks or Peloton or any, I mean, I know they're not doing, no, no, no, no one's doing necessarily very well right now, but they're different. They're different because, oh, you can be at home and do this. You don't have to go to a second class. You can do it this way. The same is true for brands. The more different you can be, another example of this is a big ass fans, which is kind of the building product space. They're different because they're like, Hey, our fans look great. They perform really well. And they're not generic. You actually think about it. Right. It's different. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. Like look at any brand that you buy. You're buying it. And the thing that's memorable to you is how it's different. And I think in the building product space, we've just seen such success with people who align around, no, we're not going to do exactly what you're doing. But tree molding is actually a great example of that because, I mean, are there any, are there a few things that's more commoditized than like molding and trim? Not a lot of things, right? It's just wood. That's not a, that's not a dig. Those are just facts. And they were like that they are in a category that everybody has accepted. Yeah, we're a commodity and we're really beautiful and like our lines are really clean, but there wasn't really one way to look at anything and be like, this is this brand and that's that brand. So they went hard on building a brand. And that in and of itself was really different for their category. And they've seen huge success and adoption because of it, because it's difficult to remember the brand name for a highly commoditized product. So they made sure that you knew their brand name because they were the only ones building something that was memorable. So Beth, I want to ask you a question. You didn't know I was going to ask you this in closing. Can't wait. You look, you look over, you look back over 200 episodes. Like, what's your, what's your biggest takeaway in doing this? Like, what's the biggest thing you're like, man, this has really benefited me or this is something I really look at and go, wow, this is, I don't know, stood out. That's a great question. It's, I actually have a very easy answer because I think about this all the time. So this isn't going to sound surprising, but we hear all the time. We know firsthand that the building materials from a marketing specifically digital marketing perspective isn't what you would consider cutting edge. Most people say it's somewhere between five to 10 years behind. And that's something that we, I mean, you just hear so often, like you hear that drumbeat. But when I think about the hundreds of guests that we've had on and they are obviously a sample size that represents a significant larger population in our industry, it's not like it's just these agencies who build websites leading the charge into the digital era for the, for our industry. We aren't actually that behind is my biggest takeaway. Like there are so many people who are so passionate, so smart, so innovative, deep in our industry, just doing what they know is going to get the best results and risking failure and trying new things and being excited about the newest and the greatest and the best and seeing really cool success, really cool data and building really incredible things and not just taking for granted, hey, I'm in this industry. This is my product. This is the way that everybody's told me to market my product. And so we're just going to do that. So I think my biggest takeaway is just the amount of people passionate about digital that believe in what it can and will be doing for our industry and that it's not just millennials saying like, hey, the Internet is the future. What's your biggest takeaway, Zach? I just I like learning, you know, we started this podcast because we thought, hey, we really want to champion this idea of digital in the industry and want to talk more about it and learn from people and see what's working. What's really interesting to me is how much we learn from people to talk to and then apply that and how many people all meet at events, whatever I go, hey, like, I really like that one episode you guys did on X, Y and Z. Like that changed our strategy for this particular initiative and like I love hearing that. Like that to me is like the biggest, most ultimate win because that is showing that these ideas scale. So like that to me is very cool. That's probably my biggest takeaway. But we got 200 more. We got 200 more episodes. We're going to do two, right? Oh, yeah, we are not even close to done. We're not even close to done. I do want to take a moment if you're a listener and you enjoy this episode. Head over to the iTunes Apple podcast and drop us a five star review to help us celebrate. Drop us a comment. Tell us what you enjoy about it. If you're like my family, you can comment about why you think Beth is a better part of the show than I am. No, but seriously, thank you all so much. If you would do that, it would mean the world to us. And if you enjoy this content, check us out at Venvio.com slash podcast to get more excellent content to subscribe to share your thoughts and questions that you have. Until next time, I'm Zach Williams, a long time Beth and I love. Thanks, everybody.