 rights around our world on broadcasting from our downtown studio in Honolulu, Hawaii, and Moana, Nuiakea. Today, we're looking at significant rights and foreign policy legislation safeguarding human rights in arms exports. Today, we're joining by Sophia. Sophia, thank you so much for coming and speaking with us today. Aloha, Jas. Thank you for having me. What's so important about this issue that we're talking about is this is really the most significant bill in multiple decades focusing on human rights and foreign policy demanding the attention of America and world affairs. Safeguard human rights in arms exports locks the rule of law considerations into existing legal framework of arm exports, controls, and sets practical procedures for implementation and continuing review. Sophia, can you share why is this issue so important in international human rights law? Thank you, Josh. Yes. As you said, this bill is incredibly important. And this issue broadly more broadly is incredibly important for human rights around the world. The United States is one of the largest exporters and providers of weapons and other military equipment around the world. And those weapons can be used in the commission of human rights violations and abuses. It's imperative that the United States take responsibility for its role in these conditions around the world and take every possible measure to ensure that it doesn't become complicit in the perpetuation of human rights abuses and violations. One of the reasons why this bill is so important is because it enshrines into law protections that are currently only a matter of policy. It also expands existing statutory authorities to ensure that not only are weapons in the form of direct assistance but also sales are subject to scrutiny for human rights violations and abuses around the world. It's really crucial and it's so exciting for you to be able to explain this important legislation. Can you share with us a bit about the legislation, what senate number and what house number it is, and where it's at right now in today's world? Sure. So some of the reasons, some of the specific provisions, Josh, that are really important within this bill include an expansion of existing lehi restrictions. These are two laws that affect the State Department and the Defense Department. And they require that we not provide assistance, direct military aid to police and military units abroad that have a record of gross violations of human rights that have gone unaddressed. However, those two laws only apply to direct assistance and not to sales. So the Safeguard Act, if enacted, would apply the same restrictions to sales as well as assistance. It would also improve what's referred to as end-use monitoring. End-use monitoring is an existing process but it's inaccurately named in that it tracks the location and possession of U.S. weapons and military equipment but not actually their use. And so the Safeguard Act would actually require the U.S. government to track human rights abuses committed with such equipment and weapons overseas. In addition, and I mentioned this a little bit earlier, the Safeguard Act would enshrine into law certain aspects of the Biden administration's current conventional arms transfer policy or the CAT policy for short, which require the U.S. government to consider international humanitarian law and international human rights law considerations. And finally, and perhaps most importantly, the Act would increase congressional oversight by requiring periodic reporting to Congress and also require that at any threshold, at any dollar value, any arms sales or assistance to foreign entities with a record of international humanitarian law violations, gross violations of human rights, genocide, and war crimes. It's really important to understand all those elements and why the Safeguard Act is so important. We know that in the Senate, it's in its S-1025 and its HR-1801 in the House. And it's so important to see how this humanitarian law considerations can be put into law and how enshrine human rights going forward. What first inspired you to care about this issue and get involved in campaigning? Thanks, Josh. So I worked with Amnesty International as a member of staff for seven years. And during that time, I had the opportunity to work on a range of international human rights issues. And one of the truths that was evident throughout that time was that the United States, unfortunately, has a role in international human rights violations and abuses around the world through a variety of means and causes. One of those being the provision of weapons and military equipment to actors who have shown that they cannot be trusted not to commit such violations and abuses. And this is why it was incredibly important to me to contribute, however I could, to this fight for the greater realization of human rights around the world. Amnesty International has documented in many countries all over the world the fact that U.S. weapons have been and are being used to commit human rights violations and abuses. No, and it's so important being an Amnesty member, right? It's that model of it's better to light a candle than curse the darkness. And also the inspiration that one individual can really make a difference. We see Peter Benison creating Amnesty while reading the newspaper and complaining about what's happening in another country. But then that aspect that we can all write a letter that we can all share a sense of solidarity and that through coming together in this case is A.I. USA, we can have an impact on national legislation, which then ripples around the world and guarantees really a culture of human rights and rule of law that will then help many people around the planet. Absolutely. When we're looking at Amnesty and when you start sharing that aspect about the impact around the world, it reminds me of the time I was lobbying and when we were Senator Schatz, who was actually co-sponsor of the Safeguard Act, then Sasha was with us from Amnesty UK. And he was able to also say that really US taking a lead on this would then encourage the United Kingdom to follow and then really set up a new standard heading in the right direction when we look at what's so important around arms and what we can do more to make sure that human rights violations do not take place and impact innocent people around the planet. I couldn't agree more, Josh. And I will say that is I think one of the most unique aspects of Amnesty International's contribution to the global movement for human rights. Amnesty International, of course, is the world's largest grassroots human rights organization. And this is a value added that many other organizations are not able to bring to bear. The fact that people all over the world in the United States and elsewhere who have all kinds of jobs and ways of spending their time come together and express, advocate fearlessly for the human rights of both themselves and everyone around the world is incredibly important and impactful. And our leaders, I think, especially in the United States, really need to hear from all of us. It's not just about subject matter experts and PhDs who sit in white towers. It's about everyone. And it's about all of us letting our leaders know that we are paying attention and that we do care and that we demand greater respect and realization of human rights here and abroad. It's true. The way you mentioned just really brings back the memories of being there the evening before connecting with fellow Amnesty passionate volunteers around the country, meeting with people who have been working on this issue for decades. You know, you really see it that someone has been a policy person pointing this out. And all of a sudden then they see in a way that sea of humanity coming together to support what only they thought was important or a smaller group. And I love how you put it that it's not just PhDs. It's not a job. It's a joy for people to come together and to have an impact to be able to really shape our policy. And as we're all standing the next day, then on the stairs, it was so exciting to see everyone energize, leaving those steps. There was that speech by AIUSA president. You can see the executive director Paul sharing his vision, talking about this is really what democracy looks like and why we're all involved. And on this important year where, of course, half of the world will vote and cast their ballot, it was really showing the power of the ballot and what voting rights mean and what we can all do to make a difference to change the direction of our country, but also make sure that the world also remembers that spirit of 1948 remembers why human rights are so crucial in domestic affairs, but also foreign policy too. I couldn't agree more, Josh. It was a beautiful day. The sun was shining. It was, as I used to say, it was a beautiful day to fight for human rights. And I know that we had more than 100 folks from all over the country meeting with representatives who serve communities across the 50 United States. And I know that in some of the meetings that I was able to sit in and participate in, we certainly encountered a real sort of refreshed energy and an appreciation for hearing from the constituents who care about human rights, as opposed to career lobbyists who may represent more powerful or moneyed interests, maybe on the other side of some of the issues that we work on. The offices wanted to, were happy to know that their constituents care about the United States and its role in protecting human rights around the world. It is true. You really see Article 20, that Peaceful Assembly and Association and also Article 21, the right to participate in government and free elections. You could really see and feel it in the air when you see everybody getting excited. And so that's really good as we look going forward. One aspect when I thought about the Safeguard Act and really connecting security and human rights, we're trying to explain what this is. I like the example of a bartender who serves an inebriated customer. Governments who are supplying weapons abroad have a secondary responsibility to ensure that they're not used to violate human rights or commit war crimes. Could you maybe expand on that a bit? Certainly. So as I shared before, the United States manufactures and exports weapons at a rate that far outpaces most others in the world. And we have ongoing security relationships with many countries around the world. And those relationships are valuable to those entities abroad. Now, what's important there is that the United States takes responsibility for the devastating impact that these weapons and equipment can have. I mean, many of these items are inherently dangerous. And so it's critical that the United States take every possible step to ensure that this equipment and these weapons are handled responsibly. Now, unfortunately, despite really critical protections that currently exist in the law, there are serious gaps. And we know that because Amnesty International has documented again and again in countries around the world with whom the United States has had long term relationships and the use of these weapons and human rights abuses and violations. And so you would think that the United States would be able to exert its influence for the greater good and for the respect of human rights. And unfortunately, there are many places and many times in which the United States is and has fallen short. And so again, it's just it's critically important that we bolster the protections that we have currently with new and updated and frankly better measures moving forward. And as you mentioned that it did get me thinking there are a couple of examples maybe that we could look at. We could see what happens in Colombia, maybe what happens in Yemen, or also Nigeria. Maybe we could share some examples that brings the words on these pages to life of why this is so important and how human rights can be respected, protected and fulfilled, but also lives can be saved. Yes. So you mentioned a couple of important cases. These are recent cases. In Yemen, Amnesty International identified US made munitions that caused the death of dozens of people in addition to many children. One family lost every child in their family, but one and it's devastating. The impact that these weapons were not used responsibly and and correctly can have on people who just want to live their lives like you and me. In Colombia, in response to peaceful labor organizing, the government used United States produced tear gas and other equipment to violently suppress peaceful protests, resulting in all kinds of horrific injuries up to and including death. Folks have lost their eyes. Folks have experienced horrific injuries that happened using US equipment. In Nigeria, Amnesty International has documented a whole host of incredibly serious human rights violations and abuses by both state and non-state actors, but with regard to United States equipment, there was a clear documentation of a case in which a United States manufactured helicopter was used in the violent suppression of peaceful protests by the Nigerian government. And these are only instances where Amnesty International was able to verify the use of US equipment in particular incidents of human rights abuses and violations. The human rights abuses by each of those three governments, the violations by each of those three governments, are so much beyond just these incidents. They are widespread, they are repetitive, and often they happen with impunity. And as you mentioned, it really does make me think about those stories, right? The one child who said they have no one to play with anymore, when you look at the Yemen example, that they used to have such a full family. And then now that's the only child due to this issue not being enforced and what happened there. And it also brings up what I remember lobbying and going around, we went with a student who created the first Amnesty chapter on her college campus. And she told the story about how this student in Colombia was majoring in pretty much the same issue she was. And that here she's able to organize, create a chapter, do activities. But there in Colombia, that this young woman lost her eye doing the exact same thing that she does here. So we could really see that sense of solidarity between people across borders, understanding that really our language, our common language, is human rights, compassion, courage, and creative ways to have campaigns that make a difference for all of us in the world. When you were able to lobby, are there any exciting stories or aspects of lobbying that jump out at you? And what were you able to do when you returned home to be able to share this experience with others? Well, I will say that being able to show up in person and communicate with another human being face to face, to really tell the story of why these, why provisions like those in the Safeguard Act are so important for protecting real people around the world and why we here care so deeply about doing that. I think is very impactful and it's that human connection and it goes beyond words on a page, although our letters are important and although our sharing our words through social media and through other means are important, that human connection I think really drives home for folks that we care about this, it is important and we will continue to care about this moving forward. It's not just one election cycle or one term in Congress. Another takeaway I have is that there is seemingly broad support for improving the United States way of showing up in the world and in ensuring that we're not contributing to human rights abuses and violations around the world. Most of the meetings that I was able to be a part of and I heard the same from many other amnesty lobbyists were really productive and engaged. I also think that it underscored the importance of two aspects of amnesty's contribution to the human rights movement. First, our people power. As I said, we had more than 100 people out meeting with congressional offices representing communities across the country and I think that can do those constituents speaking to their leaders, speaking to their representatives is incredibly important. I also heard in those meetings a desire for more information. That's really important and it's really fortunate because Amnesty International has a wealth of information, has been documenting human rights violations and abuses including those using US equipment around the world for a very long time and so I was really encouraged to hear from some offices, hey, we'd like to read more about this. Can you share more of the legal analysis and more of the documentation that you all have? I will say after returning home, being able to share that experience with other people who are constituents of some of the leaders that I met with, some of the representatives that I met with, it sort of ignited a renewed sort of passion for engagement among those who weren't able to come with me to DC. It's true. You could see it on our faces as we left. I'll never forget I arrived back here in Hawaii and this young girl saw my bag and I said, I lobby for human rights and she goes, Mom, what does that mean? And I gave her a sticker and actually the bookmark and the mom was great to explain that it's about each citizen standing up for positive social change and making sure that their voice is heard. And in this case, she was like, what are rights? And it was so good that just even that tote bag can start that conversation and as well when I shared all the different amnesty information, especially that button, the button says vote like our human rights depend on it. I think that was a part that was also raised at the annual general meeting where it was that we're building a culture of human rights that is really growing a movement. And it's not just the one election in 2024 and the presidential, but it's at every level at the municipal, at the city hall, at then the state capital, and then in the US Congress, and then as well, all the way up the ballot box too, of course, the White House. And it really does show though how at each level we can all contribute and make a difference. And with the safeguard act, it was so exciting for us to say that the US government must not approve weapons transfers and exports that will be used to commit human rights abuses or violate international humanitarian law, that once again, the US would lead in a positive way and differentiate itself from authoritarian regimes. And that Congress, of course, can play that vital role to enshrine human rights protection in arms exports law. And that the members of our Congress, as we asked them to co-sponsor the bill, push for markups, advocate for the inclusion of provisions in the must pass appropriations and authorization bills. And that's of course important where members from Hawaii sit on those important staff. And that's what's so crucial. What do you see that we can all do going forward for the safeguard act and for human rights to make the US a better place? Before I answer your question, Josh, I do just want to pick up on one thing you shared, you know, that conversation that you had when you returned home to Hawaii and had that discussion about, well, what are rights? What are human rights? And shared that interaction. You know, I think in this time where frankly, United States law and policy and United States interpretations of constitutional law are frankly inadequate to preserve and protect our human rights here in the United States. I think it's ever more important for people to be able to access human rights frameworks as an aspirational and essential means of, you know, living a free and fair life wherever you are from. International human rights frameworks provide much higher standards when it comes to how governments treat us than the US laws often do. Now to turn back to your question moving forward, what we can all do I think is share with our communities and share with our representatives our conviction and commitment to human rights and demand that they reflect that commitment as well. Very important. And, you know, as we look at this in conclusion, weapons in the hands of security forces can easily become instruments of human rights abuses. And in times of armed conflict, convention, military weapons cause harms and deaths to many civilians, unfortunately. And this bill would overhaul the arms sales law to center human rights by ensuring US weapons are on the world, pushes for accountability, enhancing correction oversight on arms sales. And we really want to thank you for sharing just one example of people power coming together from our communities to then make sure that our Congress represents the values and also the visions of what we care about. And as of course we look at the 75th commemoration of the UDHR, we of course look at Article 2021 today to see what's possible. But it's important that we see the interconnection of all of those articles and all of those rights. And one last point that you raised really inspired me because we do have to understand that no country is immune to really populism and seeing a potential retreat in human rights. And that's why when Eleanor Roosevelt was chairing the commission on human rights to create this Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the subsequent nine treaties, it's to make sure that if any country stumbles, there's still a global standard that we don't allow ourselves to fall below and that we all can utilize these human rights weapons to help ourselves in our countries to make sure our country can be everything that we desire for it to be in this democracy for global diplomacy and for a world that guarantees equality and equity for all. Well said, Josh. Mahalo. I really thank you so much for joining us today and we appreciate all the work that you do and look forward to continuing these important dialogues and discussions for a better human rights in our world. Thank you so much for joining us. Aloha.