 Okay, we are back. What's up everybody? Drew here that anxiety guy com along with the supreme Jedi Billy Cross from anxiety united calm in the UK It's supreme Jedi. It's a long story, but it's a funny one Yeah, thanks for stopping by for our next episode here today. We are gonna talk about exposure therapy It's a big topic if you are having anxiety and panic type issues and we could probably do an entire series on this because it's a Giant topic and we should today. We're really just gonna focus on that intro like what is exposure therapy? We were talking before we went live about how amazing it is that some people have never actually even heard of it Yeah, I posted in the Facebook group Yeah, somebody asked how they could start to you know make progress with their agrophobia and My response was exposure therapy and then their response to that a couple of hours later. What is exposure therapy? That was just like to me as I spoke because we've got so much experience with it You know, we're well familiar with the term But we were talking before maybe because it's sort of part and parcel of CBT Yeah, maybe people don't actually see that as a separate thing. Although. I suppose they are intertwined It's just when you think when you get offered CBT, you think therapy you think sitting in a room, right? Because of the way that it's portrayed You think that's all it's gonna be when reality When you get stuck into it, you will move from sitting there chatting to actually getting out and Exposing yourself. That's the key and it is part of CBT cognitive behavior therapy So, you know the reason why they call it that is there's that therapy and we were talking about this before You know therapy, you're right here We have that mindset of like, oh, that's when you go and sit in an office and talk to somebody But there's so much more to it than that so incognito behavior therapy your therapist your practitioner counselor Whatever you want to call them they will teach you How to identify negative thoughts and change them and challenge them and and you know get rid of them And that sort of thing so there's there's cognition involved you're learning cognitive not tricks But skills to combat the negative thoughts and that the triggered thoughts and those sort of things But then you get to the behavioral part cognitive behavioral therapy and that's actually doing stuff Actual stuff and so that's when you get that's the exposure is really the behavioral part of cognitive behavioral therapy And it's exactly what it sounds like exposure So you find the thing you're afraid of and you literally Expose yourself to it directly you intentionally go to the thing you are afraid of and that freaks a lot of people out Well, that's it. That's the thing. That's the point isn't it? That's where people come and stuck you go and you do the talking bit and you get your head around maybe because even that can Be difficult just going an appointment. Yeah, you get your head around that and then you think right We're gonna sit we're gonna chat. We're gonna learn how to Navigate these episodes. Yeah, and then the therapist will say right. Let's go and navigate some of these Right, that's when the alarm bells start ringing. Yes, I've seen a post Post on another Facebook group and somebody had said that they'd just seen their support worker for the first time The support worker had gone to their house, right? And then for the next appointment the support worker wanted the sufferer to go to them, you know, make an effort Let's make some progress and the amount of comments that I seen we're just saying wow the support worker should be fired This that's disgusting behavior. How can they expect you to do that? Yeah You know, I didn't post a comment, but I thought to myself that is it. That's what you've got to do That's exactly done. If you're gonna make progress then eventually you're gonna have to go and see that that you can't learn it all In your on your sofa. No, no, you can't you can't read it So exposure is really based on the premise that we learn through experience human beings learn through experience So we learn to be afraid through experience you have a panic attack in the supermarket So you don't want to go to the supermarket anymore You've learned to be afraid to go to the supermarket and and we can unlearn that but you only unlearn and learn through experience We're creatures of experiential learning. So you can't read about it. You can't talk about it You can't watch videos about it. Those things will help but you ultimately have to actually Confront the thing that you're afraid of and that's what exposure is all about Yeah, so it's actually used it's not just for people that deal with panic attacks and agoraphobia and that sort of stuff Exposure is used to cure or you know to a cure it's a cure a simple phobias if you're afraid of dogs for instance You know you use exposure therapy to overcome that fear of dogs, and it's a graduated thing It's usually called graduated exposure for a reason and you might start with just sitting in the therapist office looking at pictures of dogs Which could be enough to get you kind of freaked out, right? And you learn how to manage your response and be afraid properly. You have to learn to be afraid And then from there you might graduate to you know Maybe going to a veterinarian's office and looking at dogs from a distance 20 feet away You know just hearing them barking and of course you'll freak out for that You learn how to manage that response and in the end you'd work up to the point where you're literally Holding a dog playing with the dog that you've overcome your fear the phobia goes away And that only happens through the experience of actually being afraid Yeah, yeah, you know and learning I think another good thing to think about with that is like With exposure therapy people get to the comfortable place And then they just stop and say arc and live with this Yeah, you wouldn't if you were scared of dogs You wouldn't just be happy with looking at a picture of a dog and saying arm cured, right? You know you wouldn't reach that point Oh, let's look through a thousand photos of dogs and say that you're no longer scared of dogs And then somebody walks past with a dog and you crappy pants, right? You can't have you know Yeah, you're still there so you it's not about just reaching it's about going All the way so if we're gonna talk about what exposure is and we're covering that now and and really more importantly What are the expectations? What should you expect when you go into it? What you expect to happen? What should you not expect to happen? I think you know the object of the game is again exposing yourself to the thing that you fear so that you can learn to Manage that response and what you're really doing the crux of the whole thing is that the fear that you are experiencing is a rational There's so we can go back to our one-on-one series. The fear is real, but there's no danger. There's no real day That's exactly right So you have to the only way to learn that the fear is baseless is to experience the fear and actually experience the thing that makes you Afraid so we need to define. What are we actually afraid of so the first expectation and exposure is not so much to? We'll try and think of it. I can never think of another Example, but we'll use the supermarket for instance if you're afraid to go It's a good one right because many people have that if you're afraid to go to the supermarket You know, are you really afraid of the supermarket? Is it the supermarket that you're really afraid of? You know the answer to that is no, but what are you afraid of? those thoughts those feelings Right, it's what it's what you're expecting is going to happen. Yes So it's not you're not exposing yourself necessarily to the supermarket You're exposing yourself to the thoughts that come along with being there and the bodily sensations that you're afraid of So that's really what we are afraid of here Yeah, we're not afraid of the shopping mall their mailbox or the post box or the supermarket or the school recital or we're not We're afraid of those things. We're afraid of how we feel in those things So the expectation for people like us when you get to exposure is that you kind of have to expose yourself to panic and anxiety You have to say you have that happen. Yeah. Yeah, you have to go as far as You need to to actually pouring it on right because there's there's no point We said in the last the last podcast didn't we there's the successes Don't come when you go out safe if it is the post box and you walk through it and you're fine You know, that's really a nothing And nothing get exposure you froze on my screen. I don't know There you go back. I froze on my own screen, too. Yeah There you go. Okay. Yeah, you don't you don't learn when you go out and everything's just a breeze And you're not really pushing yourself you learn when you put yourself in those positions And you learn that you don't need to bail out. You don't need to run away Yeah, you know, you learn that the physical sensations and the thoughts and that are just that Physical sensations and thoughts and that's it. There's nothing more to it And they're the same sensations that you might have in many other instances. You'd have those same sensations if you were exercising Right, you're even sitting at home on the sofa watching TV. Sure. Sure You can experience those same Sensations if somebody like sneaks up on you and plays a joke on you and frightens you you'd have that same jolt of adrenaline So yes, the object of the game is we will expose ourselves to those thoughts and those those sensations through whatever means we need to Getting in the car going to the supermarket looking at a picture of the supermarket and it's graduated So what you can expect to happen is that if you enlist the aid of a therapist or somebody who you know practices this They're going to start gradually You're gonna you're gonna sit and learn some of those cognitive skills to help you process those thoughts and deal with them more constructively And you're gonna start slowly so no nobody is good There is a thing called flooding which means if you've never left you if you haven't left your house in a year Flooding is is an extreme thing and it means that you're gonna go from being housebound for a year to just going a hundred miles from your home To a crowded shopping mall in a foreign city Bam you just thrown in the middle of that that's called flooding and it can be really effective But very few people do that because it's you have to really have a good therapist Who has done that before and so you're not gonna do that Most of the time you're gonna start very slowly if you're housebound the therapist may come to you first Like you're like that post you were talking about yeah Yeah, then they they may continue to come to you and just sort of kind of get you to the front door without even walking out The front door then they may take you on a short walk down down your own street You know then and you'll work up as you go so that you've got to be prepared to actually do that Yes, something that I did originally when I very first died was made a list of five things that I wanted to achieve So like my first one was walking to the mailbox I know we always come back to you but that was my that was the first thing on my list So whatever steps I needed to take whether it was standing at the front door one day Do it again the next you know hundred yards at the road the next day just working on reaching that one goal Right, and then when I was comfortable with doing that when it became boring. I Just moved on to the next thing and that was how I worked and by the time I'd reached like the fifth thing on there I'd realized that not only had I made it to number five, which was being able to go to a supermarket It had opened up so many other doors as well Because I'd gradually increased my exposure You know by the time I reached the pinnacle of what I thought this is my limit when I reached it I was way open to going for dinner Yeah, you know going to a pub going here there and everywhere and it didn't affect me half as much It had just opened those doors. Yeah, that's what it is. It's losing the fear. It's realizing that The feelings and the sensations are nothing Well, they are something they are something that those they're real. Yeah, the fear is real, but the danger is not So we're rescinding your Jedi title You're on Jedi suspension for ten hours And you know you're an e-walk So you know what that illustrates really, you know talking about expectations what to expect from exposure So you addressed maybe the postbox and then maybe you know the school and then maybe a pub and going out to dinner And it wasn't that you could say and so but it once you achieve those milestones You were open to doing other things Because what to expect you didn't overcome your fear of the postbox the postbox didn't frighten you Exactly what you actually were overcoming with the fear of those sensations. So it's like well if I can go to the postbox I can go anywhere right so you know that that's that's good to expect it you have to expect So what can you expect? Expect that you're actually going to have to do work You're gonna actually have to confront your fear. You're going to intentionally be afraid usually with the help of a therapist They're gonna get you through it, right And it's You're going to gradually Expose yourself to the things that you fear the most you're gonna learn how to respond more constructively You're gonna learn how to unmask the fear. It's real fear, but the danger isn't you'll learn through experience What that is and the the if you do that work the progress can be really fast So you can expect reasonably quick progress This doesn't involve laying on somebody's sofa for two years It really usually if you really get into it usually in the space of a month or two if you're going weekly or twice A week kind of thing you can make a lot of progress in a short amount of time and wonder like why did I sit in my sofa for so long? You'll wonder that So I think those are the good things that you can expect This is this is what you're gonna do and this is what you can expect to happen But it's good. It's gonna be hard hard work. Yes Now the bad things to appreciate. Yeah. Yeah, they don't appreciate you how I Know like sitting here and saying it and then I can sit in and say that it's gonna be hard work But when I go and do it it is hard freaking work. It's horrible. You don't want to feel like that I think you said something gauges ago like people don't want to hit themselves with that with a hammer No, so why would you want to put yourself through this pain? That's exactly right. Turn while that's exactly right So the answer is because if you don't You won't you won't you just gonna stay where you are We go well again because we are creatures of experiential learning We can learn to be afraid through experience So when you have the first panic attack in the shopping mall, you can very quickly learn to not go to the shopping mall Yeah, but and you will only unlearn that also through experience going to the shopping mall and seeing like oh There's really no danger here. It's the only way to actually learn it. So it's through experience So that's why we have to do exposure And so the things you can expect is that the good things the bad things you can expect not bad But you know realistic things like Billy said it's really hard work It's not easy because especially when you first start you have to be really brave to face fear You just have to there's no way around that and Then the other thing too that you can expect that's you know People don't like to have to expect is that you're going you're going to be afraid. It's not Okay, let's see what not to expect. What does exposure therapy not do exposure therapy doesn't extinguish your panic attacks That's not what it's supposed to do. There's an intermediate step and everybody gets tripped up there. Yeah Yeah, like I my therapist made me go to the shopping mall and I had a panic attack. Oh, okay. That's what's supposed to happen Yeah, yeah, that's what's supposed to happen. Yeah, so it's what it's what you say after I had the panic attack Did you run out? Would you just stay there? Exactly? Exactly. So exposure therapy is not designed To extinguish your anxiety or panic So if you go into it thinking that there's two things that is not going to do that most people hope that it's going To do it's going to stop their panic attacks instantaneously like this is a way to somehow stop anxiety from happening It's really not in fact It may increase your anxiety a little bit when you're involved initially in facing that fear Yeah, but it is going to teach you to not be afraid of the anxiety not to be afraid of panic And when you're no longer afraid of it, that's when it goes away So you have to make that intermediate step that says what it will teach you to do is not to be afraid of your own Panic don't be afraid of you won't be afraid of having a panic attack anymore So it won't make it go away It'll just teach you not to be afraid of it and the other thing that it won't do is it well It's not a therapy. That's designed to help you learn to live with this Yeah, yeah, and I know I have encountered people in my travels too that have expected that to happen They thought that the therapist was going to teach them how to navigate Right like though this will teach me how to navigate the world as an agoraphobic. Well, no It's not going to teach you that you're not trying to accommodate the disorder. You're trying to you're trying to get rid of the disorder So I don't know if you've ever had we've all known people like that, I guess And it's a shame because they they tend to go down a path of failure because they expected the wrong thing I think so. Yeah. Yeah, they maybe they expect too much. Well, that's what we're talking about Isn't it they expect too much you expect that you can just go I Don't know do it and then you a lot of people we've discussed before where they've gone out And they've said I went to the supermarket had no anxiety and every that's brilliant fantastic Yeah, but then the next day the next time they go they have a panic attack They run out and then it's like oh shit, and then maybe they'll go again and have no anxiety Right, but that's not that's not what we're that's not the answer It's not to say that success is when you go and you don't have anything At this stage anyway, obviously long-term. That's the idea. We want to end up there But now what we're trying to work on it. The success is when you experience it and you Get through it and you don't drink water and slap yourself on the face or all these safety behaviors You don't need any of that. It's when you sit there you face it You get through it and that's how you that's how you learn. That's the only way to learn. Yeah, it's horrible That's so that sounds like such a new first when I say all this crap And then I go out the door and freak out after five minutes or walking But no, but the reality doesn't change right method is the method that is how it's gonna be done You've just got to put yourself out there and it had to take it. It has been proven for decades This isn't a new thing, right? This is not a new thing at all We have decades and decades of clinical evidence that shows it to be the most effective intervention We have in the case of anxiety disorders like this But it's also hard because people people expect it the wrong things from it And they also expect it to be easy or painless or comfortable Which is I can't fault anybody for that when I say that I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on anybody We nobody wants to be uncomfortable. I don't want to be uncomfortable But the true measure of success when you're going into exposure therapy is to get to the point where you know that you have an exposure To do and you truly do not care whether or not you are anxious or not Not that you're not anxious that the true measure of success is I don't care that I'm anxious I'm gonna do the same way That's the point my anxiety is no more of a bother than having a head cold or the flu might be Again, I don't want to go to the supermarket when I have the flu, but if I had to I can you know since you kill me So really that's what you should expect expect to learn to not be afraid of your anxiety and panic and Don't expect it to be some sort of instant cure or a way for you to learn to navigate The world as an example like or or with panic disorder. That's not what it is And so, you know that that means everything and if you're not willing to accept well, okay This is therapy that means I'm gonna have to intentionally be afraid then you know until you get your brain around that it's You kind of you kind of really have to buy into that before this becomes an effective way to go Yeah, yeah, yeah, so You know that that's kind of the the nuts and bolts. What is it and what do you expect? Well, let's talk a little bit about that too that I guess well, we've only been out of we this is a short one for us We haven't even been 20 minutes, but Let's talk about that and people ask me all the time Well, do I have to have a therapist and and it's expensive and even here insurance and maybe you can afford it Maybe you can't I understand that you don't have to have a therapist. I mean, I'm looking at somebody here I know has done a ton of it on their own. That's you I think it would have perhaps been more effective If I did have guidance though Yeah, I think that's perhaps where I've fallen off is when I've we've discussed it where you get to that comfortable stage Yeah, you know, I can go I can go shopping I can go take my kids to school. I'm all right with that Whereas if I'd have had somebody that said no, come on, let's get on a plane You know, let's fly and go see dream drink a cup of tea in his office. Yeah, you know that kind of stuff is so far beyond the reality of my Expectations, but it's like that's where I should be heading and I think if I had somebody there Jean me aren't telling me. This is the next step. This is the next step. Yeah, don't get comfortable You know, I think that's where a therapist would come in That's somebody that somebody who just not to just sit there and say everything's gonna be okay, right? We don't like that, but it's somebody to actually, you know push you to actually G you on yeah You need it and I you know since it's an active It's an action-oriented therapy you have that you have work to do you have assignments to do You almost the the therapist becomes initially the therapist is a teacher So, you know a good therapist or counselor whatever you want to call it is gonna teach you what okay? This is what we're gonna do. This is what the program is gonna be these are the skills I'm gonna teach you these are the the concepts behind it and that's really helpful if you're not don't have a background in behavioral Sciences, you know, and you don't know these things so the therapist will be a teacher at first and then the therapist just becomes a coach Like you said cheering you on Pointing you in the right direction pushing you where you need to be pushed Really it becomes a coaching thing more than anything else But it is possible to do it without a therapist it is possible, but you're right It's a having a professional who who actually does this full-time all the time just that Can really be effective if you can manage to do that If you can get to one one thing to consider is like your motivation if you're motivated enough to do it You can do it. That is true. That is true. That is actually very true Depending on how far at the end of your rope you are that I'm just not going to take this anymore I think those people do have a little more success even without professional help. They can do it on their own Yeah, I suppose it just depends how how low you're supposed to not how low you're supposed to but how low You need to get before something ignites and just says and you say that's not prepared. Yeah Yeah, I'm not doing this anymore. Yeah, and then that is a big deal motivation actually matters But there are a lot of resources you can use there There are good books and after we get done saying you can't you can't fix this with a book But you can the anxiety and phobia handbook by edmund born. That's a really good book and it's not terribly expensive So for those of you watching go and find it You know Somebody has to pay for billy's plane ticket to come see me and this is the way it's gonna happen No, but that's there. There's a bunch of these books. We talk about claire weeks all the time She's a good foundation, but she doesn't really Give you the nuts and bolts of exposure But like the born at born bo you are any edmund born his books are good because they actually That's a book that you might use with a therapist and it will explain a lot of those things So checking that you know books are good resources They're good resources online and sometimes the coaching and like you said somebody to cheer you on Yeah, yeah Sometimes you could find that just in a good community a good facebook group or you know exchanging videos on youtube Like that's how billy and i met You know really yeah youtube is how we met so There are ways to do it without a therapist. It doesn't have to cost you a ton of money It might be slower You might hit you might have a couple more setbacks and stuff But it's doable and if you surround yourself with people who this is a different topic We're talking about the social media topic, but My feeling with that is in terms of expectations of exposure If you surround yourself with people who will not accept your failure and not coddle you And and are willing to like give you a little tough love and say nope It's not okay to rest today. You got to get out and do it today If you can surround yourself with people who are invested in your success and who will cheer you on and support you and Encourage you and motivate you as opposed to Soothing you and you know coddling you and telling you it's all okay You have a much better chance a much better chance So in that respect if anybody is if anybody is planning to join facebook groups sometimes you find like the the groups with like 150 million members. They're the ones that are just really interested in getting the numbers up But from what I've seen my experience That the smaller groups are actually more effective. You do actually get genuine helpful advice in there is not just yeah, you know You can't share links to this that and the other because we don't want to lose members. That's a lot Yeah, it's a gripe of mine. I would urge everybody too if you're going to try and get into exposure on your own And you're looking for some sort or even with a therapist I'm sure most therapists would agree with this and you want some sort of support system And you want to find that online before you join a facebook group if you can see the group some of them are private Or or a forum on a website read it and see what's going on. Yeah, you have a look around Yeah, and I'll tell you there are hallmarks when you see a lot of you know people posting and and we all post You know when you're struggling you want to vent about your struggles and when the comments are all it's okay It's okay. It's going to be okay Trigger warning we all need a little bit of that right when every post begins with a trigger warning When everybody's talking about how we need more awareness of this and how people don't understand and How you know I dare anybody else to live with this all valid things We all need to hear those sometimes but you're really looking for those forums and groups where you hear people Yes, where people are sharing their successes and their failures and you know what when somebody has a failure You tried to do an exposure. It didn't work out for you bailed You know the best comment you can hear from other people in the group would be like You know what dust yourself off and you could do it again in a couple of hours Or tomorrow's a new day could get out there again, you know, we're behind you Yeah, that's exactly what you used to spur us on if it wasn't somebody else doing something Yeah, I can you're sitting there watching them go to a supermarket and that was the motivation. That's right But then even if you you know if you felt that you couldn't do something there was always just that support Yeah, that's that's what it was all about. It was about constructive support not pity right not pity Welcome to the party pal So that's you know in terms of exposure what you can expect you can do it without a therapist try and find yourself a really positive Encouraging support system if you can though don't don't fall back into the Soothing you know coddling thing because that tends to decrease your chances of success with exposure too But it's not impossible. It's not impossible And I think it's important to say you know before we start to wrap it up here that we're not telling you to go out And do anything actually dangerous No So the thought of going to the supermarket I'll just keep saying supermarket hate me if you will The thought of going to the supermarket just sends you into a blind panic. You know, I understand that I was there I used to be that guy too, but But in the end nobody's asking you to do anything that's actually dangerous We're just asking you to do things that are uncomfortable. There's a difference I was there yesterday. There you go. I went for it. You did it guess what I'm here today Doing a podcast with dream which means that I survived right you survived your trip to the supermarket nice So we'll do more on exposure therapy down the road I think we'll talk about the nuts and bolts of how it actually works because people don't know they really don't know how Works We can talk about some success stories and actually it would be good if you're watching this and you have exposure success stories Like send them in You know put them in the comments or you know on our facebook or wherever you find us because we're both all over the damn place But yeah, yeah, we'll talk about successes. We'll talk about we can talk about our own successes and failures I'm more than happy to talk about my failures. Yeah, there were many and uh, we know what kind of go from there But for this time, I think maybe we've got anything else that we can add to this I've got comments. I've got comments from previous videos, but we should probably save them for another q&a We'll do a q&a Well, we'll throw a couple in you have you have exposure comments for now or any of those uh Somebody asked does anybody out there feel like they're gonna faint? Honestly, I'm gonna put this into like exposure. You know, maybe feeling like you're gonna faint now. I did reply So they asked does anybody feel like they're gonna faint and my reply was that I think I feel like I'm gonna faint, but I don't know if I ever I'm actually gonna faint because I've never fainted before while I've been out So what I think That I may faint and that was the thing it was like have you ever actually felt like you're gonna Because I just don't know I don't know what it feels like to faint, but I think I think I'm going to Okay, that's really that's actually perfectly on topic believe it or not I know you probably think it isn't but it's perfectly on topic and I'll tell you why Expectations of exposure and that sort of therapy and one of the adjuncts we're talking about the cognitive part is that So if I was you know, that person's therapist I would I would answer that well Have you ever felt like you're going to faint and I would say felt like doesn't equal reality Like that phrase it feels like is one of those things that we need to learn to avoid like the plague It feels like I'm having a heart attack. It feels like I'm going to die. It feels like I'm going insane It feels like I'm going to faint. It feels like I'm going to fall over feels like is not reality So feels like and is is two different things and so probably just add I think it feel like I think it Right. Yeah, or you know So your therapist before you get out in the real world and actually start going to the supermarket the shopping mall The post box would ever before that person takes you out on your actual exposure They would go through that sort of thing. So when you say to yourself It feels like I'm going to faint and you want to bail on it because it feels like That person would teach you so you would expect to have somebody teach you the skills that says Don't act don't don't make your decisions based on what it feels like Because it feels like isn't isn't reality. You know what it feels like I'm going to have a million dollars fall on my head right now But the odds are that's not going to happen. But it really feels so I'm going to go buy a Ferrari because I feels like Like how how ridiculous is that sound like right now in my bones? It feels like I'm going to find a million dollars when I open my office door So I'm going to go online right now and buy a Ferrari That's people would think I was crazy Yeah, yeah, we yet we make our decisions based on it feels like I'm going to faint even though you've never actually fainted So that is it that's something to expect expect that you're a therapist or if you learn about it yourself and you read about the techniques That's something to expect you will learn to challenge that thought and dispel it And that's the that's the point yesterday is just a thought. Yes. I don't care what it feels like I only care. I only care what is what is thank you. Yeah, so there you go. So that was very good, dude Yes, somebody else mentioned the fleeting thoughts And like because in the video that I did yesterday I was getting that where I was just I was having this Just flash of thought out of nowhere Like I need I need to run out of here and I didn't and I said on the video I said I'm not running out of here like but why did I just have the feeling or the thought rather? Yeah, why did I just have the thought that I need to run out of here? It's just out of nowhere So I know the answer is to just not act on the thought and recognize that it is just a thought But it's like when the hell does that stop? Answer me drew when Are you actually answering the question? I'm running out of here now. Yeah, right When does it when does that stop? It's that's that expectation thing. What do you expect to happen? And I think people go into it and they expect like well, you know I'm gonna have my five sessions and that won't be happening anymore It could happen for a long time. There are still times for me for me that I still have that thought I need to balance this right now So I don't know if I could say that they would ever fully ever stop. It doesn't happen on a daily basis for me Yeah, I accept that. I've just accepted that There are times and they're very rare for me still where I may start to feel my anxiety rise in a given situation And the old habits are still there and I will think like I gotta get out of this right now So you may expect because we're talking about expectations and exposure that that may never stop But I can tell you that they will decrease the frequency of those thoughts will decrease and your your ability What you can expect is that your ability to dismiss the thought and just 30 seconds later on to care about the thought anymore The ability to dismiss the thought will increase and the frequency of the thoughts will decrease That's what exposure will do for you and the keys again that is just a fool It's just a thought and you will learn that from experience because when you're out in the real world And you're doing your exposure and you have the thought I gotta get the hell out of here right now And you stand your ground and you don't act on it and you recognize it is just a thought Let it come let it go and you use all your skills The next time you have that thought it'll just be a little easier to dismiss it just a little And then the next time you have that thought it'll be even easier to dismiss it And this is how we learn through experience and that is what you expect to happen in exposure So it won't only help you Look at that look at the way that we brought that back in And so it won't only help you be okay with a racing heart Or well we we're doing it together So it won't only help you with the physical stuff and that the symptoms of panic It will even help you learn to deal with your thoughts. These are all positive things that you can expect to happen You won't think those things as often and when you do think them you won't care as much So that is what you're going to expect I'm playing with my guitar picks as we talk. Um Yeah, what else we got anything else you want to throw at it? Somebody asked a the deep question Is the purpose of it's not that deep? I don't know how deep i'm feeling Oh dear Is the purpose of exposure therapy for everywhere to become a safety zone or to get into the habit of feel the fear and do it anyway It's it's a little bit of both, but it's mainly yeah, it's mainly the second one Um, it's not a I'll I'm gonna modify that a little bit It's not learning the habit of feel the fear and do it every anyway because that implies that you'll always be afraid And that's another thing. This is good. This is another thing that people expect like I'm supposed to do this every day Right. They are spot on the viewers. I love the viewers. So hey A lot of people feel that like Okay, great. So I can learn to go to the supermarket the shopping mall whatever and but I'm afraid when they do it But okay, I'll learn to do it. That's cool. I I can learn to do that Does that does that mean like every time I have to go and buy tomatoes I have to be afraid and deal with it. No So it's not the habit of feel the fear and do it anything because you won't always feel the fear Let's start to go away What once you're once you can do it and then you unmask the fear you see well There's nothing there was nothing to be afraid of the fear will go away So it's not really the habit. It's um exposure therapy is just It's just a way to learn like picking up a book and reading or watching a video It's just a different way to learn you're learning experience And yes, what will happen is the whole world becomes a safety zone a safety zone Exactly the whole world becomes a doesn't matter where I am. I could be on a plane. I could be in Florida I was in North Carolina. I've been in a lot of different places now and maybe I might have a panic attack on the plane I don't know could be But it doesn't matter the plane's as safe as as this office or my house or anything else. So Well, my therapist from like years ago just said That I am the safety zone. So wherever I am. Yes, the safe wherever you are. Yes I've heard a variant of that which is you need to be learned to become your own safe person Yeah, that's another good one too. Yeah, that is a good question. That was kind of deep I don't think my answer was that deep. I'll try and get deeper next time another question. Sure. Yeah Bring it. This is a question that I've seen loads of times. What did your GP diagnose you with and for me I don't think I've ever like officially been diagnosed or labeled With as something it's just that like I've gone there and gone with a complaint whatever it is this week And then just been told. Yeah, that's probably anxiety But I've never been like stamped with you are this So did you you ever get officially diagnosed? Is there such a thing as officially diagnosed as this I'm thinking because they spur off into so many different things like for me Health anxiety Soju anxiety. Sure. I have a phobia panic disorder, right Chuck them all at me What's the difference in a way? Yeah, yeah, me me personally was I were diagnosed. I believe that officially and we're we're way back here than like the mid 90s 96 or so I It was in black and white and really back then your prescriptions were written in stone tablets It was it was they were very heavy very heavy Billy I believe my official diagnosis for my family doctor my GP was panic panic disorder I believe and but I I know that You know if you know anything about the DSM the diagnostic and statistical manual with insurance companies use and mental health practitioners and gps use There's there's panic disorder. There's generalized anxiety disorder. There's panic disorder with agoraphobia There's even agoraphobia without panic disorder. Well, that's pretty rare. So but in the end What does it matter what your diagnosis was? That's what I was thinking. Right. I mean, so I think my official diagnosis was probably panic disorder and at one point it would have been panic disorder with agoraphobia, but What's the difference, you know the the approach is the same Exactly. I mean, it might be a little different when it comes to health anxiety and social anxiety Those are slightly different, but the principles are all still the same health anxiety is a tougher one We'll have to do a couple on health anxiety. Yeah I've said yeah, health anxiety is almost purely cognitive almost purely There's almost no you can't really expose yourself to a heart attack. So Yeah, yeah, there's a forum that I've used in the past and like if you go on there The health anxiety is the busiest section everything Thousands of people just I feel this does anybody else. What is this? What is this right? Yeah, yeah, and even though they look perhaps learn, I know we're going off. No, no, it's okay Like even when somebody says yeah, I felt that it's nothing to worry about It still doesn't register like the next time that it comes back a month down the line I've got this again. Does anybody else get this and this time it must really be a bad thing Last time it was nothing but this time This is the time and I think you know to bring it along to bring it back and we can bring almost everything back to what to expect an exposure If you're dealing with health anxiety exposure is a tough one because It's health anxiety is almost purely a cognitive construct. It's what you think Yeah, it's your interpretation of how you feel. So it's really hard to expose yourself to that in a way So it's a little different animal social anxiety is similar to if you have social anxiety exposure will help you Because you you put yourself into social situations in a controlled way and learn to manage that anxiety and overcome it and those fears, but Um, so what is your diagnosis? Honestly, it sounds really flippant, but I say who cares Jedi Jedi diagnosis supreme You need to be out my friend Yeah, so that's that's my take on diagnosis That's it. Yeah All right, we're we're 38 minutes into it. I guess we should wrap it up that everything we do a comedy special next week We will we're gonna I'm not gonna sing a dance though. Nobody wants to see that Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry So I guess that's the story We're sticking to it Yeah So, you know as always comments questions bring them on if you're watching on billy's channel my channel my Website doesn't ever wherever facebook twitter started adding them to anxiety united.com. Good. That's a good place to start So yeah, I find billy at anxiety united.com find me at that anxiety guy calm and And there's links on both sites to our youtube and our twitter and our facebook and all that stuff. So I'm gonna make an admission Uh-oh We didn't go bowling last week What happened? We just didn't I just I weren't brave enough You just didn't want to go bowling or are you just kind of bail on the bowling? We we sort of we toyed with the idea And it just got later and later in the day And we we we actually got in the car me my daughter and my my wife But my son didn't come he didn't want to go out and we just drove around for like half an hour and then decided Well, I decided Let's knock Wow, so it was there was a loss. It was a big loss Well, I'm admitting it. I am admitting it live. There's no going back. There is no going back We're not editing these we never edit these just so everybody knows these are we just go on the cuff off the cuff here Well, you know what though you you're owning it so What are you doing the rest of today go bowling, man I went for breakfast yesterday. I went I went to a shop yesterday. Yeah And you know what just before we we sign off. I guess you've got all the contact information everything That's a good story that you shared that I think it's really great. I appreciate you sharing It makes me human. It makes me human. It makes you human, right? It's the even supreme jedi's have their Fall down sometimes it happens and you know what take this as the final the thing that you can take away from this video Is listen to billy's story about how you you're going to go bowling and you decided the 11th hour not to go bowling For whatever reason you bailed on it, right? And it's obviously weighing on you you actually wanted to confess it here on the podcast which is admirable The confessional there are two responses that I could give billy right now So pretend you know, this is just we're not actually face-to-face Two strangers type it in we're on a forum right now type it in I didn't go bowling. I was supposed to go bowling, but I got too scared I sat in the car and I just said I can't do it. What do you advise? Please help me So now trigger warning bowling trigger if you're triggered by bowling So there are two possible responses here and this is what I want everybody to take away Give me the non non drew the non drew response Right. So if you are if you are the person if you are billy and you're looking for like somebody tell me something to make me Feel better here. There's two ways If you're not me, you're gonna say it's okay Nobody nobody understands how that feels they don't know they don't know your wife doesn't know how that feels Thank you. She I dare her to have a panic attack and live through it. We're warriors We don't we don't die easy. I dare them. They don't know we need more awareness of this. It's okay It's okay. Don't let anybody make you feel bad That's that's what most of the time you're gonna see and when you see that in a form run the other way So what I'm feeling what billy's friends should tell him and what I will tell him is you know, you should have went bowling You know that you admitted it here on the podcast for a reason And you know what if I were you I'd go bowling today Even though you don't might not like bowling. I don't really like to bowl But but you got to do it very soon today tomorrow sometime Otherwise that will weigh on you and you know what you might feel like shit when you go bowling And you'll hate it and you want to leave but do it anyway And then in the end you'll feel like superman And then then I will raise a pint to you and we will laugh about it together And that is the right response. So exactly if we bring it back to our topic of exposure look for people who will support your exposure And there you go That's it. All right. So next time we're going to start the video with a still shot of you bowling No All right, dude, I'll consider it. I'll consider it do it. You got to get out there and do it That's the only way you're going to solve that problem as you just got to do Yeah, and you're way more experienced. You know, you know how to do this. So yeah, I You could bowl. I can I'm terrible at it. So All right, we'll see you guys next time. I guess I think we're done. Yeah, we're cool. Yeah, we're out later