 from Las Vegas, expecting the signal from the noise. It's theCUBE, covering InterConnect 2016, brought to you by IBM. Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here live in Las Vegas for IBM InterConnect 2016 exclusive coverage from Silicon Angles, the CUBE that's our flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise. We're on day two of three days, wall-to-wall coverage, getting the energy, bringing it back and no better guests than having the stars of the Internet's open source, coding world, GitHub, great company, and we have Matt Sharr's product marketing and Sandy Carter from IBM and Michael King product market in GitHub. Great to have you guys on. Obviously, we love GitHub. We use it extensively for our operation. I just checked the commits, 5,000 commits on one app, 2,000 commits on the other. He knows the negative deletions. I'll have to look into that later, find out who's deleting what. Hopefully it's good deletions, but thanks for coming on theCUBE. Yeah, thanks for having us, appreciate it. I think GitHub is probably one of the most successful companies that has emerged out of the open source, what I call this new generation of open source where you have full cloud, you have SaaS as a business model where it wasn't a land grab. It was essentially a very easy way to get in, small fee, collaboration with open source growth, really, and you know what? Really worked well, real value, and now I've made a lot of cash and then a big investment. So, obviously that was already when you guys cleared the runway and successful, so this validation, people put some money in their pockets, but in general it really is a showcase of, in my opinion, the collaboration of how people work and software developers in the cutting edge because they don't tolerate any BS. You know that, they need it now, I'm doing DevOps, I'm doing whatever they're doing, it has to work well, if not, you'll know about it. Well it's very true, even the way that we build GitHub is on GitHub, so we know from developers firsthand whether or not the product's working well in that collaborative environment because otherwise we're not building a good product. Dave's in the research, Dave Vellanteco is my partner, he's in the research business, and I know Dave, it's simple, the internet's easy, even when you're wrong, people will tell you you're wrong, so just listen and they'll tell you you're wrong. Sandy knows, she's on the social media maven. That's the key part, listening. Exactly. So Sandy, IBM in San Francisco in the Bay Area, big new move, we talked about earlier segment, GitHub partnership, talk about the partnership, and guys, share with the audience. People know GitHub in the open source and development, and there's different versions of it, but the deal with BlueMix is pretty significant because it's kind of a nuance, but I want to expose that value. Yeah, so we believe that for developers, this is probably one of the most significant announcements that we've made at Interconnect, and this is the partnership that's really expanded because we've had a partnership with GitHub for developers, and this is around GitHub Enterprise. So the real value here for our clients is that most of their developers use GitHub today, and they are putting things out there that in some cases makes their enterprise, their company a little nervous. Well, this agreement enables them to have GitHub Enterprise inside of their company, so now their internal developers can use and leverage all the great features and functions that they already love in GitHub today and use all the time. They can now leverage that inside the enterprise and do that on RedWin BlueMix. So is this a new announcement because you guys had GitHub last year, was there, is it too soon? For DeveloperWorks Premium, we had GitHub.com, we had five Git repositories or reposts that were available as you purchased DeveloperWorks Premium. This is now on the GitHub Enterprise side that enables the enterprise as well. The full white label, secure, people who want locked and loaded collaboration development tools. And you could hear the audience sing this morning when Michael introduced it at the opening of our DEBAT conference because everybody in the room uses GitHub. Now they can use it in their own environments too, so it's just like a double treat for them. Matt, I want to ask you guys, because one of the things I noticed and it's probably not talked about much, but GitHub is a social network and for developers. And I even was joined when Joe Hellerstein was one of the founders of a startup, came out at Berkeley. All the founders put the GitHub handles on their About page. Most people put their LinkedIn handle, they put their GitHub handle. And I love that because you don't see that there often, but in the Git community, that is very much the parlance for looking at someone's badges, if you will. Kind of like Xbox. Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, that your GitHub handle is basically a software developer's resume. It's where someone who's going to hire a software developer, someone who's going to either for a project or a job, that's where they're going to look first. They're going to see the quality of their commits. They're going to see the quality of the code they're producing and they're going to do that on GitHub. It's kind of like gaming. You see who you're going to want on your team. That's right. If you want to A player, look at the A player, I need a support player. So it really is a gestural piece of data that is ultimately your shingle that you're hanging out there and open source enables all that. Yeah, and it's also to that point, conversations with several customers and for example, they're hiring a group of interns from a university and instead of there being a two to three month ramp up for them to understand all the internal processes, they're already using GitHub and their classes. So they're able to get onto their network as quickly as possible. And then we have a 12 year old boy in the queue really 10 May who's coding away. So GitHub opens up the doors. So now for an enterprise, they can come in and say, okay, the new way to work as IBM's slogan is, is to be collaborative. And it's not always going to be physical locations. I know IBM's got locations all over the world. Now, Austin, Silicon Valley, but you can have a developer in, you know, in the middle of the US, in Europe, the world is flat. The developer community is now India is exploding with full stack product guys. So now you have a global landscape. This to me under opens that up. Can you tease that out? In fact, you know, it's funny. IBM is one of our biggest customers actually for the enterprise product. And that's really what the enterprise product is all about. It's providing that same developer experience just inside the enterprise at scale. So it's enabling enterprises to both develop, collaborate, learn and teach all in a secure and managed environment. I mean, this is where it gets pretty difficult, right? Because a lot of enterprises look at the open source community. They're kind of nervous. It's not secure. I don't feel like it'll be, the right stuff will get out. And so that's why we brought GitHub to Enterprise in 2012. We invented it in 2012 and we brought it out. We've been improving it and making it better and all that great stuff. Because our enterprise, our developers demanded it. You know, they use GitHub at home. They use GitHub in school. Why can't they use it at work now? And that's the other cool thing about this announcement too is now with Bluemix where they're able to use it in shops that maybe weren't as comfortable with either running their own servers or putting it in some other cloud somewhere. They can now run it on a Bluemix local or Bluemix dedicated instance and feel pretty darn good about the security and the management capabilities. Say, talk about the local thing. This is a nuance. People might not know. They hid the buzzwords local in instance. What does that mean? And it has the size of the SaaS product on Bluemix. Is that the data center? I mean, explain this local thing. Yeah, so we have kind of three models that we believe people are leveraging cloud for. So one is a public model and we have a great use case for public. We also have what we call private and this is where local and dedicated comes out. So the enterprise can set up their own cloud, operate that cloud within their own four walls and leverage and use all the great value of Bluemix that's automatically updated. They don't have to maintain it and do that inside of their four walls. So that's what we're talking about here. It's on prem basically. It's on prem. Yeah, easy way to say it. Local thing. Look at me like New York, Boston. That's right, that's right. But no, that's a, this is, but the benefits of GitHub is it's a geography boundary killer because it's virtual space. It's a social network. Absolutely, and you know, IBM loves developers. GitHub has also fallen in love with developers and more importantly, developers have fallen in love with GitHub. So we're absolutely thrilled with this partnership and really extending it into the enterprise where most of the developers are today. They sit in the enterprise, right? We all like to talk about startup developers and they're super cool and we love them too, but more of them sit in the enterprise than any other place today. Well, depending on how you classify developers, I would say modern developers, that number is increasing very fast. The demand is off the charts. Now there's some old school dudes out there like me. I'm not an enterprise developer anymore, but that's the transition that the host shows talking about. Okay, getting the new developers on this digital transformation is key. And that's big data. That's DevOps, mobile first. And to get them there, they need skills and they need help. And that's what GitHub provides. It provides them that community, that social network that you talked about that enables them to help each other, which is the way they like to work. So Matt and Mike, I got to ask a question and I'm not going to go into the whole, I know probably why Candy's here is the whole PR of things that GitHub's been involved in. But recently you've had some service about women coders and whatnot. But I want to ask the question a little bit differently because I don't like to go there. It's a waste of time. Culturally though, the developer population is certainly radically changing and we had Tanmay on earlier. Young kid, 12 years old. He's not going to outcoat this, he's five years old. Now that's a little bit of a black swan, but it proves the point. Developers are now changing significantly the makeup of demographics and psychographics. What are you guys doing with the product? Is the product evolving because of it? Can you share some insight around this new onboarding of developers? And by the way, developers with Swift is different than a C++ developer. So now you have designers, coders, and Sandy and I were talking about this earlier. The word developer is changing. So what are you guys doing from a software standpoint? Share some color around that. Yeah, I mean, it's a great question. And you have to think about the way that development is occurring now is very asynchronous. And I think where, as I mentioned, we dogged through the product. We're a great example. We have 500 people at GitHub and half of those are remote. And so we want to make sure we're hiring not just the best talent, but people who represent the GitHub culture in the best way possible. And you can imagine in that type of asynchronous communication environment, a lot of things can get misconstrued. And you always have to think of... It's like text messaging. Lost in translation. Yeah, it is. A lot of gestural data that you just can't really get from a face to face. Exactly. And something that we try to espouse within every communication we have at GitHub is assume no malice. Everyone is here to serve each other. We want to be empathic toward each other. And that means if we do that the right way with each other, then we're gonna build a better product for the world that is also gonna help them serve those needs. We have a great social impact team that is doing a lot of work around how is it that we make open source development as a whole much more collaborative. There's a lot of studies that show there's one report that even show that women tend to have better quality contributions to open source projects. But yet when it is shown that it's a woman contributing, their views are diminished. So how do you make it more of a gender neutral type of contribution environment? These are all the questions. There's a lot of male skewed on the male side for sure. But the data, and we were talking about earlier is showing that if you take away the gender biases on the names itself or the classification, there's a lot of women in programming and diversity across the board. Age and psychographic. Yeah, I mean we feel very, very strongly that diversity gives you a better product, period. Whether you're a designer, whether you're a developer, whether you're a product vendor, whether you're the largest technology company in the world, diversity gives you a better product. I think it's synchronous too, it does take advantage of the diversity. I mean, there are some translational issues. It's like text, I mean like sometimes like, did you really mean that? No, no, you're talking about like, oh my God, I thought it's hostile. I mean you don't know through unless you really need, and Leni Watson basically soon would be able to be there, but taking to the next level with virtual reality and now all kinds of new tools coming out. Sandy, this begs the next question. The evolution of the collaboration from a coding standpoint can go in many different directions. Automating QA processes or looking at push notifications on code, alerts, these are the cool things that could come out of it. Is this kind of being kicked around? Can you guys share some color around what's coming around, how to make things easier? I mean, I was looking at my GitHub, I'm like, oh I didn't know there's deletions, you spotted it out, I'm like, I better look into that. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think, you know, if you look at Watson, she is a great coder herself and she can actually help coders be a concierge and teach them how to code as well. And inside of developer works, we already have a great architecture center that we announced here where it has over 40 architectural patterns that people can learn how to go into the cloud-based world, the cognitive world. Because the cognitive coding world is different. You have different designs, you do things in a different way. We were just talking about this the other day, right? Cognitive brings a whole new skill set to bear that a lot of coders don't have today and they're going to have to learn. They'll learn it through GitHub and sharing things. They'll also learn it, you know, by being with each other and taking this to the next level, next step. Matt, Mike, I want you to share your thoughts on kind of connecting the dots a little bit to the future. So obviously the show here, it's pretty clear, developers front and center, get in early, IBM's committed, they're making some good moves. I've been tracking these guys for five years on here in the queue, but they have to execute on that. It's a whole different conversation. But the collaboration software substrates changing, right? With big data, something Sandy's mentioning is going to change the collaboration aspect. What are you guys doing and what are you guys seeing happening on that front from GitHub standpoint and what have you learned over the years looking at the patterns and how people are communicating and collaborating and writing code together? How does that translate to the next generation? Yeah, I mean, we talk a lot about the developer life cycle. And the developer life cycle really is you start off learning something and then you build and then you collaborate on that, people comment on it, people bring it back and then you put it into production. But what a lot of people miss is that next step where you start teaching and it's when you start sort of handing back into that community. That's something the open source community does very, very well. They mentor, they bring people up, you have a great commit or you have something you wanna, you put into the code and people say, hey, that was great. You know, maybe try it this time, next time. And it's like, if you look through that life cycle, you go from learning something to teaching very, very quickly. And what we're trying to do with GitHub is take that same process and say, how do we shorten that? How do we make that life cycle even more rapid? If you look at it as writing code gets, I won't say easier but more accessible, Objective-C versus Swift, right? It's a significant difference. The barrier for entry for people to code is much lower now than it was. And the demand for people who can code. So mentoring becomes an interesting thing, right? That's right. So the things are changing just naturally. That's exactly right, yeah. And so what's gonna happen is as those people become productive, both through that lower barrier to entry, but also through the way that GitHub and our community mentors new coders, we think that's the only way that demand is gonna be answered. So that's kind of what we're putting into the problem. So let's talk about the impact of the customers now. Surely, IBM's customers and now your customers. Okay, Matt, Mike, look it. I need some help. Give me the bottom line. How do I get this up and running fast? Okay, I wanna get some wins. I wanna knock down some momentum. I don't wanna boil over the ocean. I get the long game here, but I wanna get some wins pretty quickly. I wanna be agile, but I also gotta hit that proof point. How do I stand this up? What do I do? What are some best practices? What do I do? Matt knows how to do this better than me. Yeah, it's the best guy to have. Absolutely. Yeah, in my interactions with the customers, a lot of times you have this cultural dichotomy. Some of them have been using GitHub and so they're accustomed to the very collaborative element of it, the others are very hesitant to it. And I think what you have to really instill in a new customer is thinking about not seeing a commit to say, if you're gonna merge a PR or something along those lines, to seeing it as gospel. It's not canonized. It's always open for discussion. But having some degree, I think, of oversight over who is gonna make the final call on this is a really, really helpful thing to do. So it's like you're making... Well, there's a democratization aspect to it. Yeah, yeah. You're saying don't take it as a matter of fact gospel and then get dogmatic about it. Yeah. If you take it and say, hey, let's review this and commit as a group. Exactly. Consider it more like a conversation rather than a dictatorship of anything else. Yeah. Decamers just don't work. Yeah. It's the biggest... Yeah, of course. It's very true. It doesn't work at all. But I think that's the biggest cultural barrier and I find that most of the customers that really get it and see immediate returns to how effective their teams are working together, spending less time in meetings. We've seen some customers go from 25% of their time coding to 80% of their time coding because they don't have to fill up their days just with schedules and conversations because it's all happening asynchronously. And that usually occurs when you start to recognize that that's a conversation. The asynchronous is a killer app. I've no doubt about it. Yeah. The transparency too. The way that things are done out in the open. So if you have a question about why something was committed or a question about why something was done a certain way, all of those answers are right there for you. And also if people can pull stuff out and do stuff on their own, it's fully in the open. That's right. And then people can watch them like playing with the code. Oh, he's on to something. So that draws more collaboration on it versus black boxing it. Certainly. So transparency is key. How about like voting and gamification? Are you guys seeing any dynamics on the roadmap relative to GitHub having more tools around, straight up vote like a Senate vote or like next Supreme Court justice of the code base, whoever that is. I mean, there's always gonna be some sort of opportunity because there's gonna be conflict. Managing the conflict is a community thing that's been solved and managed governance approaches. But voting is a good thing, right? I mean, collaboration. Yes or no. I think there's, even if you look at some of the ways that other collaborative platforms have done it, some of them have done the thumbs up, thumbs down sort of thing. The way you have to do it though is also as we talked about being empathic to your other developers is what kind of signal do you want to generate from doing that? Do you, because if you do a thumbs down, what does someone mean by that? Do they mean they don't like me? Do they not like my code? Do they not like my idea? I think the thumbs down is, I think Quora screwed up their whole product by having a thumbs down button. In Facebook, they've had a thumbs down button. They have a like button. If you only like, if you don't. So why would you want to have a negative gesture? Sure. But at the same time, I have seen, I was visiting a customer a few months ago and what they have is they have an API that automatically, if they get two thumbs up from managers, that branch is deployed. So in some ways, they've used the approval and say, this looks good to me. It segmented out the authoritativeness of the identity. So there is some, again, data behind the, Exactly. Ever the rationale, whether you're leaving a trolling comment or legit authority. Absolutely. But I mean, here's the thing, if you have an issue or you would give a thumbs down, there's a reason behind that. Explain the reason behind that. Recomment. Help make it better. Leave a comment. Yeah, don't just comment to be negative or say, I don't like this. Give a reason as to why and what you would change. That way you're mentoring, you're helping. Yeah, that's where the thumbs down hurts because with the thumbs down with no context, with no context, Exactly. It's like, just creates more problems because now it's like, in the absence of information, people will make stuff up. That's what communities do. That's right. And then the trolls jump in. So that attracts trolls and then I digress. Anyway, so back to GitHub. What's up for you guys now? Enterprise product feeling good? GitHub in general. Good sentiment over there right now? Yeah, yeah. It's been a really, it's been an exceptional past few years. It's been really great to see that the, I think the fun and excitement of dot com has translated really well over to customers using GitHub Enterprise. I see the same sort of collaboration that existed, that built 12 million developers on a platform now within the enterprise and I think with IBM, the ability to do more. How long have you guys been with GitHub for? I've been there for just over a year. And I've been there, I'm on my third week right now. Third week, so you guys are new to the culture. Pretty new to the culture, yeah. Although, fairly speaking, we basically doubled our employee base last year. So I look at the list of employees and I was like, God, I'm right in the middle. That's kind of crazy. What did you guys do before GitHub? So I was at a mobile app startup for a while and then I was an industry analyst for a long time. I was an engineer. Which firm? Gartner? Gartner, yeah. I was just crashing on Gartner earlier, but it's okay. Go ahead. Yeah, I was an engineer at Boeing and Rolls-Royce and then after business school, I was in strategy consulting for a bit, ran my own consulting firm for the most, was startups and nonprofits. Well, Chris is not here. I wanted to ask Chris some questions, but what I was going to ask Chris and you could pass on the messages. Can I come into the White House room? I want to see that white, have you been in there? Yeah, yeah, of course. We'll walk into it every morning. Is it totally replica? I've actually been to the White House on a number of occasions and it is legit. It is as legit as it looks. So the folks out there, they have a room that's from complete replica of the White House room. So congratulations. Sandy, congratulations on your work in San Francisco. Continues to do well. We'll be tracking and we'll see you around the town. Thank you. I'm very excited to be working with GitHub and GitHub Enterprise for all the developers out there. Yeah, guys, thanks for coming on. I think you really appreciate it. Cube Madness starts March 15th. That's when we have our March Madness Cube, we're all the nominations come in for the Cube guests and then they go, we're head to head and it ends up becoming a hackathon because everyone stuffs the ballot and so we'll see how that hackathon goes this year. So look for Cube Madness. Go to Twitter and search hashtag Cube Gems to see the highlights from this interview right now, coming off here and all the other highlights. Be right back with more coverage after the short break.