 Ex-Governors Darie and Jolene Yame released from Kujae Prison and Ohane Zindigo alleges that there is a plot to keep Sen. Ike Kweramadu away from Nigeria ahead of the 2023 elections. This is Plus Politics. I am Mary Anacoff. Former Governors of Platteau State, Joshua Darie and Jolene Yame of Tarabastate have been released from Kujae Prison months after they were pardoned by the National Council of State. Darie and Yame were granted pardon by the President's Mohamed Buhari's government on 14 April 2022. Both former Governors were serving jail term for corruption allegations until they were granted a pardon by President Buhari, a development that received a lot of negative reactions. The High Court of the Federal Capital Territory Guru Abuja had on Tuesday 12 June 2018 sentenced Darie to 14 years imprisonment on the charges of criminal breach of trust and misappropriation of funds to the tune of 1.6 billion Naira while he was a State Governor of Platteau. Now Yame was also to serve a 12-year term for diverting 1.64 billion Naira during his tenure as Governor of Tarabastate. Joining us to break this down is Jiri Ulogun. He is a legal practitioner. Thank you so much Mr. Ulogun for joining us. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here. Let's start by going to the basics because this release is necessitated by a presidential pardon and that's what we'll call it. But for the benefit of those who are wondering on what a presidential pardon is, it's obviously the power that is on the President against every other law to grant pardon. But I'm sure that you have a better way of explaining this. And I think the question for every Nigerian or on every Nigerian's mind is why these two? You know when you talk about state program, it is an act of mercy or forgiveness or clemency and in the words of Justice John Marshall in the United States v. Wilson in 1833 a matter he described it as an act of grace. And there is another way of saying that even though the two from my God knows have been prosecuted from victory and sentence is to serve their geotimes, the Council of States led by the President has given an act of grace to pardon them. And basically we have four types of pardon. You have full partial absolute of course conditional a pardon. And in this case it appears they are enjoying full pardon. And is this a constitutional action? The answer is yes. If you look at section 175 of the Nigerian constitution as amended from subsections one to six, it gives the President the barricade of pardon. And historically speaking, you know the state pardon can be traced back to the early sixties. But before we go into that, if at all, we have the Council of States whose responsibility is to advise the President before the state pardon was granted. And you have the President himself as the chairman, the vice president as the deputy chairman, all former presidents of the Federation, all former heads of government of the Federation, all former chief judges of Nigeria, the president of the Senate, the speaker of the House of Representatives, and all the governors of the states of the Federation, and of course the attorney general of the Federation. So here is a very reports representation that should have considered all the variables. And it was recommended and approved that the President could grant them pardon, not just these two personalities for 157 orders. And what made people to react in the way they reacted is to consider is it because they are high-profile personalities and looking at the allegations that led them to prosecution and conviction, serious acts of corruption. Because the citizens are now asking what to be the rating of Nigeria as a nation that comes with fighting corruption, then are we not reinforcing corruption in the nation if they can go away with such every, you know, very enormous levels of allegations for which they were convicted? But like I mentioned earlier, if you go back to 1966, before the Civil War, the Yakubu Goan regime, pardoned, she went back to the whole lower world, leader of the Ashokan group, and the former premier of the different western region, and also chief Antony Enaho, journalist and top politician then, even though he moved the press motion for Nigeria's independence in 1953, both of them were convicted of treasonable penalty in 1963. So President Sherw Shagari, pardoned, Nigeria, the Yakubu Goan, you know, a bankita-granted pattern into Kairabog and Tudi Thompson, General Al-Salam-e-Pardon, General Nishabu Vassal, so we can trace it down, you know, empirically that this is not the first one. But as mentioned earlier, people are worried that we're really fighting corruption. That is where we are right now. And even after the pattern was granted, it was kept in the Correctional Facility for about three additional months, and recently finally released. So another question came up with all the attacks on the Kuji Correctional Facility. What happened when they kept in the bunker? And this is where we are now. But on whether the President has the constitutional power to grant the answers, yes, and of course based on the advice of the Council of States. Let me go back to, you made mention of the crimes that these men were put away for. These men were convicted for funneling funds, public funds, or diverting these monies. And I'm talking about monies to the tune of billions, and these are taxpayers' monies. Again, because this is the issue, and Mr. President has decided that these are the men alongside with 150 more people who he would pardon. Nigerians are wondering, is there not a contradiction of sorts? Being that Mr. President is a man who said, rather, ran on the heels of, I want to fight corruption, zero tolerance for corruption. And then almost at the eve of, you know, rather at the close of his government, he's pardoning Treasury looters. What sort of legacy is Mr. President trying to leave for himself by doing this? And these are two people whose notoriety is for looting, for want of a better way to put it. You know, morally speaking, and of course, making reference to the need to fight corruption. This may be a dent on the profiling of the President. I mean, two governors who allegedly embezzled and misappropriated such funds at the expense of state's development and now have been left of the hook. And the impression some may have is that, okay, you're going to commit any crime against the state. Make it so big that you can find your way around. And again, we need to mention the case of separation of powers. You can imagine the rigors that the judiciary went through in investigating and persecuting these defendants, we call them defendants under the new Criminal Justice Act. And at the end of the day, whilst having their jail time, the criminal justice turned around to say, they're going to release these persons. And the implication of that is that it will appear they never committed any offense against the state. And that's why I ruled out the four types of patterns. So this is like an absolute pattern. So they are free to go back and be heavily involved in politics, seek to lead some areas of the country again. And another school of thought is saying that perhaps because these are political big wheat, they may be released to support the political agenda of the good news. Whatever the case may be, personally, as a matter of my opinion, I believe that we have not done justice to the mandate of Section 15, Subsection 5 of the Nigerian Constitution and Asamende, that says that the state shall abolish corrupt practices and abuse of office. So right now, we are seeing as governors who abuse office, who are corrupt, convicted by the court. In actual fact, the day the Supreme Court confirmed the conviction of Governor Dairie, I was in the Supreme Court the same day, in Abuja. Even though we had some of his political supporters around. And when a matter goes to the level of the Supreme Court, the highest court in the land, and you must have applauded the jury for taking the aim to go through prosecution to ensure that the strong message is sent down, those who may want to be corrupt, that the laws of the land will not permit it. But at last, somewhere along the line of certain digital terms, there were granted state burdens. Again, this may be an assignment for the National Assembly. If you look at Section 4 of the Nigerian Constitution and Asamende, it says that the National Assembly shall make laws of the peace, order, and good governance of Nigeria. So we may look at this and give very stringent conditions for the grant of state burdens in the future. And that may be one of the ways of correcting such. But as we stand now, the President subject to the advice and approval of the Council of State has that constitutional power to grant state burdens. Remember that in March 2013, President Gulok Ibele Junatan granted a burden to former governor of the United States of Nigeria, Alamesia, and of course, Lieutenant-General Oladipo Diya retired, and with General Bukarim Hadissa, and the former MD of Bank of the North, Fetima Bulamo. So we need to check critically how we exercise state burden. And I must say here, it's a global concern, not just in Nigeria. And in cases in the United States of America, where questions were raised on the rationale behind grants of state burden. So here we are now, but I suggest that we are really going to fight corruption seriously. We must ensure that we totally consider the cases of those who enjoy state burden. I do remember that an American President was pardoned by his former vice, who also became President. And we saw how that turned out in the polls for him, because he lost his second term, because the Americans were unhappy about the state burden. It was a Watergate scandal, I remember. And that's why he lost that election. So let's look at the politics here now, because a lot of people have wondered why Mr. President has decided now, and not even earlier on, but now to release these two gentlemen. And they're wondering, is it political? And what role will this play, again, in the politics of things, knowing that we're just at the bend of the campaign season, and it's going to kick off in earnest in a few weeks? Will this play a role in, will this affect, will this one way or the other, also play a role in how we cast our votes in the coming election, especially for the APC? You know, we expect that with the calibre of personalities we have here, they have very commendable political influence on the citizens and the electorates. And if I know Nigeria very well, the fact that a notable figure has gone to serve a jail time, may not erode the respect given to the personality. And in their respective ways, they may be able to swing the voting pattern for political interests. But having said that also, it's also subject to the politics at the party level. If you look at the Delta State, for instance, the former governor of Delta State, Gibori, who was jailed for 13 years in the UK for crime, and came back to Nigeria where he has not even been convicted, came back exercising very strong political influence. But right now, he appears to be losing that interest, that political influence in Delta State is really battling to retain his position. So what I may just say that almost every decision has political conduct. But like you mentioned earlier, I think you were trying to make reference to what happened under President Gerald Ford, that was in 1974 in the USA, who granted full and unconditional pardon to former President Richard Nixon over the involvement in the Watergate scandal that led to his ceremonial resignation from office. And any other time he may have committed, many Americans felt that that was undecided. And it was a controversial decision. Other than the President's to his grant, but he paid a very heavy price. His popularity regime dropped. In 1993, President Clinton also pardoned a millionaire for generally considered to be an oilie. So there are these issues out there. And politically speaking, all of these decisions may be political in nature. But to what extent that we affect the people now, who have been embattled by the hardship, the inflation, the unkept promises of politicians in the country, I may not be able to say in what direction it will go. I believe that right now, Nigerians have been trained and groomed to take independent decisions on who they vote for, particularly when majority of Nigerians have tested the bitter fruit of corruption upon the land. Okay. Now, just let me backtrack a bit to something that you said. I mean, you talked about the fact that, you know, you made reference to James Ibori, the former governor of Delta State and how much popularity he has and the backing he has politically in the state. Many would attribute the political prowess of the governor of Delta State now to James Ibori that he had necessitated he coming to power. But that again is, you know, by the side. If what you have said is anything to go by politically and otherwise, what does this say about tossing us to people? Is it that we have chicken senses that, you know, after a while we seem to forget about these things or have we grown a thick skin of sorts to gloss over corruption so much so that we forget about how much we've been stolen from and then we still throw our weight behind these people because it does mean that there's a lot for us to ponder about before 2023, doesn't it? You know, we have a lot of adjustment to make, but let me also say this. It is recently that we are getting to witness many citizens who have actually rising up to ensure that they keep into the class of those who can actually vote. Maybe before now, those who go out there to vote are those who can hardly exercise discretion if they can enjoy 12,000 error from the politician to his election. They will go ahead and vote, but with the new revolution we are having in the country now where some citizens are even mobilizing or some candidates irrespective of whether the candidate has money to give them or not. I think we are growing our democracy and if you look at some of the restructuring that we have experienced in our electoral laws, for instance, the transmission of results electronically and other measures that we have introduced, we may have some shortcuts coming forward. But then, having said all this, we still have a percentage of electorates, maybe about 40% that can be influenced and flow with the tide of where the politician is leading them. Without considering the merits, but basically there is a new awareness in town now that you either secure your future or allow the politicians to promote your future. What has been said all this can let you know that these personalities that have just been released back in society, we still exercise some high levels of political influence. I should let you know that the day I made reference to in Abu Dhabi, I was shocked and what shocked me went to the court to confirm the conviction of former governor Darii. I witnessed political supporters being given money right in the lobby of the Supreme Court. So you can imagine to what extent people can go, perhaps because of poverty, or on trained partisan loyalty. But we still have a lot to learn about the fact that sovereignty actually belongs to the people and the people should conscientiously exercise that sovereignty without allowing politicians to swing them and later deal with them in a very bitter manner. And I also hope that the politicians, if they are learning at all, would have seen the level of insecurity in the country and just begin to start a new paradigm of making the new town a better place for all because the insecurity of one is the insecurity of all. And if you look at section 14, subsection 2B of the Nigerian constitution, it says that the security and the welfare of the people should be the primary purpose of government. And when the primary purpose of government fails, almost everyone is in danger. We have seen that even at this point in time, the so-called bandits are threatening to kidnap the president and commander of the armed forces and, of course, governor L. Rufai Katnassi for whatever reason is less noticeable. And that shows us that right now a very vulnerable society at the National Assembly is also rising up to say, okay, at this point in time, we need to question the competence of the president. We may be moving against the president on an impeachment exercise, which I can tell you if you look at the procedures under the constitution, it's like they're trying to move the camera through the eye of the name. Having said all this, I believe we should grow as a nation in being decisive on choosing those who manage our resources because the common world should be generated for the common good and not for the embezzlement of the few and the oppression of men. Talking about embezzlement now, because you see it's not enough, if you ask me, to put away somebody for stealing or looting federal or state treasury. But then again, where is the money? Because Nigerians will be asking that question, where these monies recovered. I mean, under the Bahá'í administration, we've seen all sorts. We've seen for the pension scam, a slap on the wrist. We've seen allegations of dollar scandals, et cetera, et cetera. And half the time, the percentage of the monies that we get back is nothing necessarily to write him about. So in a case where these men have been pardoned and brought back into society, what about the monies? Because again, we are facing an economy which is also going through a downturn of sorts. Inflation is at its peak. Should we not be questioning where the money is? I mean, Nobel Laureate Wallis-Szeringa, I'd like to quote him directly, has said that he slammed the President. He said that the presidential pardon for these former governors is an action that could be referred to as an ex-quashed against Nigerians' faces. And that all of this shall not be forgotten or wiped away in a hurry. Serap on the other hand is suing Mr. President, saying that this is a particular presidential pardon. It's not in the interest of the average Nigerian. So again, do we get these monies back? You know, this question should have gone to the account and general of the federation who is in charge of the resources. But then, he himself is engaged in an H-billion Naira investment scandal. So you see this viral ring of corruption going around. And again, may I also join you in asking another question? We are all the monies. We cover from Abacha. You know, at the time, the government claims to have spend on massive infrastructure. But I can let you know that as we speak right now, there are many roads that have collapsed in Nigeria. You can see that even though we spend 100 billion Naira reportedly on turnaround maintenance of the refiners, the refiners are off-function, even though we are promised that one of them will come off-function at very soon. But at a time, the NFC adds zero revenue to the federation account. So we just begin to go round and round this team of corruption. And for a regime that strongly promised to fight corruption, Nigerians, like the book, the beautiful ones are not yet born, are still looking for that leadership that we actually fight corruption. Because you may be shocked at the level of alleged corruptions under this regime that you have ever heard in the country before now. But we just want to advise that Nigerians should keep hope alive and not allow the despair to sink them, because we are just passing through the place. And to my president and commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces, I wish you the best. And that when your tenure is over, you may be recorded on the golden side of if you won't express your desire. But, you know, if we evaluate the situation of the country now, it means that you have a lot more to do before you step out of office. And finally, Mr. Logo, before we go, because you're trying to give Nigerians some hope. And this is the hope that Nigerians expected when they voted for Mr. President in 2015. Again, in 2019, even though not many people voted, Mr. President came back into power. Where is the justice? Where is the equity for the average Nigerian who seems to be working so hard, putting in so much, and getting nothing only for a handful of people to take these monies home and get a slap on the wrist, or a presidential pardon, or sometimes a slap on the carpet? Where is the justice? Where is the equity for the average Nigerian? I mean, you're trying to give us hope, but is there even a shred of it that one can actually hold on to? The elders say that hope dies last. And I'm going to mention, make a reference to Rwanda, African nation, that was in a very horrible pit. Somewhere along the line, a new leadership be made, led by Ocagami, whom we may not claim is perfect, who changed the narrative that country by reuniting the people and advancing the questions economically. And most recently, Tanzania is on the good book of the globe in terms of good leadership. And at a time, Singapore was a poor region. And we can go on and on. If you know what is going on in Ghana now, they have more addictions than subscriptions in terms of making progress. And you know at a time, Ghana was like an outcast when it comes to that nations in the West African region. So that's how we keep up our life. And for someone like Gideon Lugun, looking at the enormous resources that God has deposited in Nigeria, I'm hopeful that when we have the resourceful leadership, the narrative will be quite exciting. As we speak right now, Nigeria retains the status of having the largest deposit of open gas in Africa. We have the goal. We have different kinds of resources in the country. We have fantastic weather. So we are just waiting patiently for a new order in the next term. Maybe a renewed federal republic of Nigeria. And I say this, don't give up. We will go on. So please, let's keep up our life. We can be well with Nigeria. All right. Thank you very much. Gideon Lugun is a legal practitioner. Always a pleasure to have you join us on the program. Thank you. God bless Nigeria. All right. Thank you for staying with us. We'll take a short break now. And when we get back, we will be discussing Ohaneze's plea to echo us over the Aquarium Madu Organ harvesting case. Stay with us.