 Hello everyone, welcome to the weekly TSC call. I'm sure everybody is aware of the antitrust policy, the notice of which is being displayed. As a reminder, we also have the cut of conduct linked from the agenda that everybody needs to be aware of and be ready to live by. We have a bit of a different meeting today because we have a guest. So we have David, the chair of the media and entertainment SIG will give us a short presentation of what's going on in that group. And it's a bit of a call for help or, you know, interested parties to help them with the project. So before that, let's start with the usual announcements. Who wants the honor of talking about the newsletter I don't know if there's much point, but Since Jessica is back Jessica with the developer newsletter so I think everyone kind of knows the routine here but it goes out every Friday dev weekly. Please just go in there if you have anything to add you know we're open to any sort of updates with the projects, any new features or events, any good technical articles you've seen. Please help us fill that out. I think we've grown to over 1200 folks on that list so people are reading it and appreciate the content so if you can please update it. Thank you Jessica. Another thing I wanted to highlight, I think everybody should be aware of the TS election, TSC election is going on, and with the nomination period ends tomorrow at the end of the day Pacific time. Tracy has a hand up. Yeah, I guess I didn't realize but it looks like the last time I got it that weekly newsletter was in June. I guess I'm asking if it's still going out weekly. off the list, Tracy. What's up. Yeah, I will take you off the list. Yes, it's still going out that's strange. Okay, I'll check my. Yeah, I mean just ping me if you know you're you're still signed up to it and everything we'll figure out what's going on but it's still going out every Friday afternoon. Yeah. All right, and then so to get back to the election. So the election is ongoing I think all the TSC members, except for a couple, namely, Mark and Gary are running again. And, and we have a whole bunch of new candidates so I look forward to that so beware if you know of anybody else you want to nominate. Tomo is the last chance. And so that's, is there any other announcements from anybody else. No. Okay. So I hope that the election is going better and that the use of the tool is working out. I, from what I saw on the mailing list, it seems to be going pretty smoothly. There's going to be too many people complaining that they are not in the, you know, that the system is not reporting them as eligible when they think they are, they are. So, hopefully, it will be easier on the staff this year. Sorry, so let's get back to the agenda, quarterly reports. So, we have a couple of older ones are to speak. So cello that there was something we already had last time. There is nothing new. It's, you know, just before the call I went back to it seems like there is no issue that needs to be raised but this is your chance to raise any other issues you might want to bring up. Otherwise, we did receive the borough project report. And I mean they are saying there isn't much happening. It has been a bit slow, mostly due to summer, but they are still making progress and publishing releases. So just before the call, basically, we received the HRSA report. So as I was saying, hot is not on the call is traveling but it did manage to get the report out. So several of us managed to actually review it, but I will put it again on the agenda for next week if anybody else has anything else they want to bring up but if there's an issue you want to bring up now. Obviously, it'll be easier when hot is here, but let me know a room. Okay, thanks a lot. So I did not, I do not have an issue. Rather, I just wanted to hear somebody from somebody on borough from somebody within the community right so what I was interested in particular is, you know, Barrow has been leading leading in terms of reusability within Hyperledger with fabric and sort of both supporting at least the UVM part of it to be used within it. So I wanted to know if that interaction is going still or if there are requirements coming in from different projects of how did it help or why I mean is it helping or not helping. So maybe there are some learnings that Barrow can share with others. So I don't know how much activity they're still around this. I can speak for fabric. I mean we did have an effort around what's referred to as the chain code EVM where we basically embedded the Barrow EVM into the into fabric so that you could run a solidly smart contract on the fabric network. And we have also a client gateway that allows to run web three AP clients against the fabric network. However, this work has not gained a lot of momentum in terms of community use. And so the people were actually involved in this work. I've left IBM and I don't think anybody else really is working on this so this piece unfortunately at this point is kind of dormant. So I don't think there is any active communication anymore with Barrow on that front. And Dave may know something I don't know but I believe that's the status. No, it's been dead for a while. I don't haven't heard of anybody using it. And you're right to maintainers are not maintaining it anymore. All right Tracy. I want to go back to maybe where Arun was trying to get to, which is how did, how did this all come about how did it play together. I remember in one of the first hackfest that I attended, I think it was in DC, where both folks from the Barrow community and folks from the sawtooth community were at that hackfest and decided that they wanted to see what it would take to bring the EVM to sawtooth and so they got in a room during that hackfest and they started that process of the discussion around how to make that happen. And then because they had had that opportunity to be face to face and be in a room and work on the whiteboard after they went back their separate ways they were able to better keep in touch and make that happen. So Arun I don't know if it was more about your question was more about how do we get people to work together but that's how that one particularly came about. Thanks Tracy and thanks. I guess all three answers kind of gave me what I wanted. I wanted from both perspective, but yeah this clarifies of it. I know there are a few more projects who are looking for collaboration and they may be willing to learn how they could collaborate with the rest of the projects in the community. And I guess one of the meeting that I attended was on a presentation on Firefly and they run a weekly call right so I was interested in to see when they proposed fabric connectors to Firefly just to understand how that is built and what kind of collaboration is possible. And there are components that could be reused across not just within Firefly but it could as well be just a component that can supplement fabric project for example. And that's when I had the start of the question. And yeah sure probably we should see if we can do something to improve the collaboration in terms of using components. So this is an interesting question indeed but you know, I think the experience with Borough, which as we talked about that several connections with other projects to me show that it's not like there is an inherent problem that people don't want to collaborate across projects, even though the TSC has been lamenting about the lack of cooperation collaborations between the projects, you know, since forever. To me, this is really because well, you know, it's not because people don't want to, is that when the experience that we just saw we talked about with Borough shows in fact that when there is a common interest, the collaboration can take place. There's nothing really stopping that from happening. And so maybe it's just the way it is that there isn't more need for collaboration. And I think, you know, if anybody feels like a we're trying to work with another group they are just ignoring us. And we should, you know, I welcome them to speak up and let us know because my impression is that, you know, this is not the problem. But I'd be happy to hear otherwise if that's the case because I definitely would want to address it if there was just like, you know, a lack of response from one project towards another or something, you know, not interest in responding to any inquiries. I don't think so. I heard any such comments. So yeah, we don't have such a problem. So it's a matter of to me it's really it shows that it's a matter more of finding something that, you know, will trigger interest from two groups to different projects to say yeah I have an interesting experience that's worked together. And even the cases we talked about, you know, you could say these were a project they were competing with one another because it was between the different ledgers. There was still cooperation happening. All right, anything else. This is slightly sidetracked from the reports but it's okay. Thanks for raising the question. There is nothing else in the reports then I suggest we move to the main item for the agenda for today. As David I will let you speak up and do a better job than I did introducing your topic, but you have the floor. Thanks very much. What I would like to do today is to introduce to you I should probably just share my screen as well if that's okay. Yeah if you want to go ahead. Can everybody see that. Yes. Fantastic. So, yep, my name is David. I'm a professor UCLA. I come to you from the world of the humanities. I work in three departments at UCLA one is my home department is comparative literature. So professionally speaking my background is in Russian studies which will be relevant in about two minutes. I'm also in musicology which is relevant to this project and I also teach in digital humanities. So I helped to put together the media and entertainment special interest group because for me from a selfish point of view. It seemed to me that hyper ledger could do a great deal of good work in those parts of the world where piracy is a problem. And so the official interest was gathered and we registered and we now exist. So we need a project. And because I have a large data set for more than, well, more than 20 years I've been collecting music from that part of the world and I recently donated my entire collection which is over 2 million audio files from across the 20th century. These are all from Eastern Europe. I donated it to a museum in Los Angeles. So the project here that you can see on the screen. Distributed music curation platform is really something that is designed to protect copyright to hypothetically improve automatic payments for licensing those assets. And it's a tool that could be used by two groups of people. Well, two types of institution. One would be an artist or a label. So the artist with good metadata adds their, their asset, their song, their musical composition to a decentralized platform. And then they license that or they, or the asset would be uploaded by a museum. Let's say the artist is no longer recording or it's an antique recording than a museum in the same way uploads it and licenses that the problem. Let me just scroll down. It's a primarily textual presentation. So I'll put the link in the chat. It's not that interesting to look at until we get to the bottom. And this is the way that the metadata is being embedded in the file. So this is a tool that I'm using together with a Frauhofer lab in Germany. These are the people who are responsible for the creation of the MP3. You can see there's multiple ways of searching for an asset. It's not just a matter of artist and title and publication so album or EP, but it's also beats per minute. It's the key. Excuse me. It's an algorithmically calculated guess what the genre might be. It's whether it's acoustic or electronic what the tempo is and what the emotion is. The emotion is here in the color column expressed as color. So whatever the data set happens to be the the software determines that there is some meaningful collection between given files and expresses that connection as a color. There's something that connects yellow files, for example, that would allow somebody who doesn't understand the language maybe doesn't even know the alphabet to search through the files and find something similar to the track that they're already listening to. So all of that's fairly straightforward. And you can see here at the bottom, what we're ideally looking for is a type of simple interface that would allow people. I already have the front end designed and these are just some wireframes one app might look like. But this is the problem we're facing, which is, does there exist a simple interface between the database and the the knowledgeable admin, but between the database and a typical user that would allow them to interact with fabric in a way that does not presume any pre existing expertise. I've looked a lot. And obviously there are multiple companies, blockchain as a service companies that do offer something like that. But this is the sort of the one of the two problems we're facing one is the pure issue of a hosting costs. The other one is whether any of you guys might have seen across the other six and attempt to get over what strikes us as the primary barrier when using fabric which is its complexity. And I wonder, I'll be as brief as I can so I'll pause if not stop there and ask whether anybody. It's okay we have plenty of time so. Okay, okay. So is there anything in any of the other six that has tried to grapple with this to reduce the complexity and increase the accessibility of fabric for a. I mean, for an ignorant user for want of a less offensive word. So I don't answer law. I'm not sure if I understand complexity, what you mean exactly with complexity but this was one of the goal of the fabric smart client to simplify to reduce to the bare minimum, the complexity of dealing with with fabric, which means that you don't even know you don't even need to be aware that you are facing the blockchain that you are facing fabric. We just are provided with something that is closer to the business to the business processes, and then the smart client will will transform it to to fab to something that fabric understands. What about user interface that the actual the client facing interface itself. That's up to you I mean that's the client user interface. If you're using a web UI or another type of UI that's, it's not part of the smart client. Yeah, that's what I was wondering. I mean I've looked now for over six months and I checked regularly but it doesn't appear as if anybody is actually doing that. But what do you mean with the UI because that would depend on your specific application now. But if you can imagine that let's say if we take the two use cases here one is an artist and one is a museum, then that would be you'd imagine the basic UI that somebody in a supply chain might also want which is track and trace let's say upload track and trace. So it would be the same interface, crudely speaking that somebody in any supply chain would want to generate an employee. So I'm looking for something that is already a pre packaged out of shell. Well, at least in its fundamental architecture yeah and I would I would it would seem logical that one of the six might have encountered a related problem. Okay, so this is something different. Yeah. Thanks, I wanted to understand the problem in more detail sorry for that. So what you're looking for is a UI that has certain features pretty well into it. And then you're okay to spend some time on, let's say the fabric client part of it right so when you say the complexities I, and I am assuming that you're talking with respect to sending transactions to blockchain is that the complexity that you're bringing up here. Yes, exactly. I mean obviously fabric itself the way that it is presented is obviously assuming a reasonable level of expertise when it comes to let's say you know CLI and ideally if fabric is going to be used by the largest number of people possible. The majority of people know nothing about the blockchain and maybe don't even need to but if there was a simple interface that would say this is how you upload an asset. Maybe in the back end and guaranteeing a certain degree of security using software that you don't need to understand this simple interface will allow you to upload the asset. Let's say improve the metadata at the licensing information if for some reason it wasn't included in the file already, and then loan it or lend it or license it in other words you know like a supply chain pass it into somebody else's and track the use or at least the safe delivery of that asset to somebody else. Sorry, we want one more thing so then if you're talking about licensing something it's not exactly the same as the supply chain because at some point you take the same asset back again. Sure, I see what you're asking for so I initially got confused with the operations part of it if it was operations that you're looking into I guess there is a new project in hyperledger labs that will ease up some of these things. It's called fabric operations console and that's in hyperledger labs right now. And there are projects that will help you also in terms of setting up your own network quickly if you want for let's say, a quick PUC kind of thing right so I mean starting with a script based fabric samples repository and all the way till using a tool something like mini fab or maybe using a blockchain automation framework kind of project, which are there in hyperledger labs. Yeah, so many which is fantastic mini fab though you're still within the universe of terminal work so but I must admit mini fab is a great step towards making the software accessible for many, many more people. Sure so and yeah these are the projects that will help you out and managing your network or setting up your network and short span of time and addition to that if you're looking for UI. So there, there should be an example application that is available on fabric that can be reused. However, specifically on supply chain I guess then there is a UI part solely written within great if that sounds, but I'm not sure how much of it can be reused for fabric. I remember ultimately you know when fabric first appeared within the promotional materials, in fact this is this is a text that I still encounter online. There was the, the tendency to advertise fabric as a tool that could be used, I forget the exact phrase but it was something like even for music delivery. This is part of the dot blockchain project which is we know, you know, no longer exists and then it became verify media and split into two or three different parts. But since that initial project which was a big part of early fabric I haven't seen anything similar. All right, so before Tracy. This is invisible hand up but because of superpower I can see is end up. Yeah, thanks. So I wanted, I think why here is, you know, not just a call for pointers, but a call for help. I'll call for hands. And I think that there is, you know, David has a need for for implementers to help out. And for those implementers. I want to point out that CNCF has a lab where they have in the past, so that they would be happy to host test networks for us. So there is no need to worry about figuring out hosting or anything like that so if there are implementers who could work with David. And help him make some advance on this because I know that David has been asking for for assistance on this for a while. And I really, I want this project to go. And it seems like all the pieces are there. But that's, that's it I just wanted to make my pitch. That's right. Thank you. For example, I mean, being in LA I mean I'm I live very close to the Getty Museum. You know so this is one of the wealthiest museums in the world and the newer Getty Museum because there are two prides itself in particular on its photographic collections. And so what it does it makes a reasonable amount of money, lending out to other museums, massive high resolution photographic files, which can then be used to make, you know the resolution is so high that they they in and of themselves can be used to exhibit in other countries around the country so you can lend valuable assets without actually saying saying goodbye to the original physical. The thing is that they asked me up there to give a presentation, and I gave it on fabric but they're very nervous about the fact that they said well there's no easy tool that we have in order to streamline our operations that would make it easy for any archivist to upload something that is a huge and be very, very valuable to us into a secure decentralized system. So it's the same thing I mean you know beyond music I mean this would make equally good sense for ebooks, or for films or anything that is a digitized entertainment asset that is often stolen. You see your hand is no longer up. No, it's no longer up I think it's maybe not as relevant anymore given what Ry just said. I will tell you what I was going to say which is to was to build on to a runes comment that within blockchain automation framework there's also a supply chain sample application that I guess now based on what Ry said anybody who might want to volunteer to do that and see how that works to to implement something that might be a UI for this but I, it sounds to me more like they, the need here is for people who can one deploy and operate a fabric network and then to provide some sort of user interface that would make this a something that can be used by people who don't know anything about the underlying data store. If you don't for those of you who very kindly spoken up if you could just throw a throw a link or two in the chat that would be enormously helpful. Yeah and to give a bit more context I mean this is how this whole thing came about this white David is here today because essentially, you know, the, it was brought up to my attention that David was looking for help and, you know, I figured well, we have already extended invitations to all the cities and working groups to come and present on what's going on in their, in their, in their groups. And so I thought this was a good opportunity to hear from this thing in particular, and I also wanted to follow up with answering your question David saying, you know, are, are there any other six that have gone through this. Unfortunately, I can't say that they are. And part of it is, I'm not saying that they are not, or they haven't. It's because we know very little about what's going on in the six, unfortunately. We have, as I said extended invitation for the six to come and present very few of them have actually taken up the opportunity to come and talk about what's going on there six. And, as Mark Wagner likes to say, the six are a bit like the relative from, you know, live on the other side of town that you don't know. And this is an unfortunate state of affair but unfortunately it's still very true I'm afraid. And so I think maybe the staff has more insights as to what's going on in all the six and, you know, we'd be in better position to, to say whether there are any other six that can, you know, that you can relate to that would have similar challenges. Maybe then the easiest thing I see the chat's not working but maybe the easiest thing if you don't mind would be purely for me to send you that URL I just showed you again, and then the white wise, the wise members of this group could take a closer look and just let me know, just point me in the right direction or at least the direction of something that's worth investigating. On that front I want to highlight the there's a link from the agenda to your document that you actually quickly walk us through. So people have that link. And you're right, I guess the chat in the zoom called don't present work because you use. Right, so I always disable the chat in zoom, because you know we're not supposed to use that. You can use the hyperlegio hyperlegio TSC channel in element instead. Okay. So you, you're welcome to join that channel. And, further. Yes. Sorry, I don't have the ability to raise my hand apparently today. Sorry. I don't have the ability to do it on me, but smart move right. Would it make sense to write something up brief for like the developer newsletter that would hit a wider range of people, sort of saying, you know, is there any type of generic UI or something like that. So if you don't mind if that's not a hassle, I'd be happy to do that. Mark, this is another David, I've been supporting David and that is, yeah, one of the things. Yeah, actually I was going to write up something and send it to the developer newsletter this weekend and I've been helping David share what's going on in the media, say, kind of in other channels but to our nose point I mean I do think we have a situation where we currently have six somewhat separate from the technical part of the community. So when, you know, David does do something within the media. I don't think it's necessarily reaching the people who could help answer some of these technical problems or help implement. So, you know, I do think maybe this could be an interesting test to how do we bring the six and the technical community closer together that could benefit. The entire community as a whole you know it could help unblock the SIGs it could help the projects, you know, with requirements for example or with you know, you know, bugs or any all sorts of things you know is there a win-win situation here for both the SIGs and the, you know, technical project community if we do bring you know groups closer together. Yes, absolutely. And, you know, aside from all of this I've also advised David to send an email to the fabric mailing list and they made him aware of the contributors calls we have, you know, on a regular basis. All of these are possible venues where he could, you know, try to reach out to the broader fabric community to try to get some help. Bobby has been waiting with their hand up. Hi, I just wanted to mention to David that I did drop those links into the chat. And if you want to advertise something please join us on Monday for the Learning Materials Working Group call because that's a great place to store your information where people go to look for it. But I just wanted to speak to the issue about the SIGs and the working groups and the technical community on the project, the mentorship project that Hyperledger is sponsoring. We're working with, we were talking with the sawtooth people, we're working with the Firefly people, and we have presentations in the social impact SIG and the trade finance SIG at the end of the project time. So the special interest groups have been more than accommodating for this mentorship project to let us have space to show off what we've been doing with Firefly. That's one way just to join their meetings like we did and stick our noses in. All right, thank you, Bobby. All right, if there's nothing else, I think that's it for this item. David, thank you. I hope you know this helps and you know get the word out and eventually get some something going on. That'd be fantastic and hopefully people can reach out to me. I don't know if my email is at that URL you have if it's not I'll add it right now, but I'm easy to find. I'm the only person with my name at UCLA. I'm also assuming this could be used with NFTs. Yes, that's exactly the idea. Yeah, exactly because obviously when it comes to copyright protection, that's a very promising technology as well. It may be being more, you know, mention that specifically might generate more interest than a newsletter or something. Sure. I mean, yes, absolutely. I mean, considering, you know, the biggest splash in the NFT world obviously came in the world of fine arts. It didn't come in music at all. So that's a pretty sexy story when somebody sells an NFT that is automatically catapulted into one of the most expensive paintings ever sold. And sex always sells on the internet, right? Apparently, so I'm told, yeah. We do hyperledger. Hyperledger proper has a project that we're working on with HBC use around some NFT training. So there may be some opportunity later this year to integrate some of that as well. So there are a lot of pieces to connect. I don't know if David Boswell will follow up on that. I'm kind of losing my voice. Yeah, that's a good point, Ryan. And I do think it's helpful for us to provide more resources for people like David who are trying to build these things and we are. We looped David into the planning for the workshop, the fabric workshop. So it'd be good to get his input about like what would be a helpful resource to create and what would, you know, unblock him. So yeah, David, any input into that, you know, what sort of additional resources we could provide would certainly be welcome. All right. So I think that closes it. Thank you again, David. That was very kind of you to have no problem and happy to help if we can. So, I mean, you feel free to drop off now or stick around if you want to have some insight as to what we are doing in this group, although we don't have the most exciting agenda for today other than what we already covered. So let's get to this. Let me first ask the other TSC members if there is any topic in particular they would like to discuss now. Okay. If not, then I thought we should have yet another look at the backlog and see where things, things stand, because I have the feeling that, you know, some of these items could be basically closed slash slash abandoned. I don't know how to call it but I have the feeling we have some long standing item there that probably that may not never get a proper resolution anyway. So, I know Arun I'm going to put you on the spot because you actually send an email the other day saying yeah, when there was last week when I canceled the call saying I don't think we have anything to discuss. There were a couple of items, the long term agenda in particular. I remember last time we did a cleanup. I was ready to close it. I think everybody was really on board for this. And you say well don't close it quite yet. I'm going to follow up on this. Sure, so not this topic. The other one, what if top level project changes. Okay. So, at this point, I mean, you know, when Dan Middleton opened this you see how long it's been. Well, you don't see it there because it's been modified by Gary recently but you know even then it's been a while. This agenda is several years old, like three years or so. And I don't think, you know, it's, it actually helped us at the time, because it helped us, you know, generate some kind of interesting discussions. I think there is nothing more that we can do and nothing actionable that will come out of this anymore. So on that basis, I'm proposing to close this. Does this have a second. I second. All right. Thank you. So anyone in favor say hi. Hi. Hi. Anyone opposing speak up say, say so now anyone wants to be listed as a staining. Okay, hearing nobody. I think this is approved. Thank you. So I can give a quick update on the DCO and pseudonyms. Because this was, I mean, I don't have an answer unfortunately, but Brian told me that this is not forgotten. It's a real issue. And this is, you know, something that they're still discussing and looking into. I did point out that in our case. You mentioned that there is sister projects to hyperledger called the open SSF is the open source security foundation, which is looking into securing open source in general. And there is a project within that group. It's a working group within a project. I don't know which way I should say it, but I mean, I have the terminology quite right but there is an effort looking into this kind of problems. And they don't have an answer. Unfortunately, if they add one, I would have been happy to report. Hey, the solution has been found for us. But this is something they actually are looking into. I looked into it the other day and they had very similar use cases. It's not the only ones but this, this, you know, need for anonymity is actually recognized as a general problem. So what I'm trying to say essentially is there may be hope, you know, that the solution will be coming from elsewhere, and then we'll just be able to adopt it. That still means for us right now. I do think we should keep it open because this is worth addressing for real. And whether we address it ourselves, or if the solution comes from elsewhere. I think this is something we want to keep on our on our agenda. Go ahead. So can we go back into the DCO intuitive page. So, the six of the seventh options. At the end, the last two I think are the two if we have to work independently. I'm going to the bullet list, some possibilities. The last two I think are the two if we need to act without them providing guidance, I think the ones we should go for. Both of them would have a real signed off by person in the list as a requirement. And we would support other people the question is whether the person signing off knows the real identity of the other people on the sign off list or whether we just let it in. And we go by the ladder clauses of the DCO to say to my knowledge it passes the standards and I'm signing off on it. So I think those if we don't get clarity from from that other group the security group, and we need to get a policy and I think we need to get a policy at some point sooner rather than later rather than letting this drag on even if we change it later when we get their suggestion, but those are the two that I think we should consider between those. I think anything from of the first five I don't think will give us the protection we need. Any reactions thoughts. Tracy go ahead. The only that I have to that is the hit by a bus example when it's a person who knew the shooting him is hit by a bus. Then we still don't know like who that person was right if we have to go back and do any sort of digging into that particular request, or pull request. Yeah, that is how. So when you, I guess it means what sort of liability we're taking all we do a sign off by for someone who we don't know. And my thought is if you're doing a sign off by what if the person you know gets hit by a bus and can't be held accountable. You know it's the same situations if you sign off without with fully knows the answer you're the only sign off by on the question PR and you're hit by a bus, and they can't get a hold of you. So I think when you do do a sign off by for someone whose identity you know you're accepting some of the liability or something you don't know. So I think that's some of the discussion we need to have. And I don't think we should expect maintainers require maintainers actually to do sign off by people who are not willing to unmask publicly. So that's you know one twist to it is that by doing a sign off by accepting some of the liability, such liability exists or at least some of the answerability for that situation. But if they can't find you and they can't get real person. That's just a variation of the if one person sign off by and I can't find that person. But at the same time we can't require maintainers to sign off on anonymous and semi anonymous people because of that liability. I think as well. I mean, let's just let's forget the DCO part of this. I see this as like if someone, if someone snuck in code of unknown provenance. There would be a re implementation effort, right. So, if we ended up in a situation where, you know, one side or the other of this transaction or both. I mean, if someone, if someone just died, you know how would you resolve their licensing issues. And you would need to reimplement it so it's not like there's no solution to this problem. It's not the best solution, but I think the problem is slightly different because it's a it's a commitment issue right. When you sign off you commit that, you know, any IP you have you're making it available freely for the project to use. And if somebody then comes and starts suing people. You need to be able to identify that person as being the person who actually made the commitment and therefore their claims are you know irrelevant. If the person who could make the connection has been hit by a bus to follow traces example, then you can never prove that you've lost the only link you had. I believe that the solution might still remain that well you have to rewrite your code but it's a bit of a different take on it try as he said. Yeah, I, my personal opinion is when we start saying liability, I don't think maintainers should be doing this. My second point is, if we were going to have this it should actually be Linux foundation who's registering people and maintaining that list not maintainers. I think that the Linux foundation would know who the, the anonymous person is, and the Linux foundation would be a testing on their behalf that they are known. Is that what I understand. Yeah we're hyper ledger foundation whichever organization we're talking about. I think it should be the foundations making these policies and making the tools and making the registrations. I don't understand how maintainers are going to do this with all of the discussion that we've had, and I particularly don't like. You know the thoughts about liability it just doesn't ring right to me. Gotcha. Thanks for. Thank you for clarifying that. So, I actually didn't mean to dive into this topic although clearly it's still of interest to love people. I, it's pretty obvious that there is no solution, but anyway back to the cleaning exercise I meant to say I think this is still something we want to keep there, whether we can make progress or not, this is not something we can just, you know, sweep under the rug, kind of thing. So let's go back and we go back to the backlog. Was there any low hanging food. Yeah, the restructure and greenhouse. We're not to worry about this. The task force was in charge of the was in charge of this is just completed as just completed its activity. And so there's actually already if you go to the website, the website has been updated. And maybe at this point we can just close it as completed. That's the reason we can't ruin. I know you had still some action item for the last call we had last week, I believe, but is like minor detail implementation. So for those who haven't looked at it, you know, I invite you all to go back to the website, hyperlegio.org. And I know a lot of us don't get there very often. But you will see that the greenhouse is no longer there. Instead, we are using a tool that has been, you know, that is being more and more widely used across Phoenix Foundation. And it allows to display, you know, information in different ways. And so this is, you know, the website has been revamped. And it actually gives. So if people have comments, this is something that can still be fine tuned. But, you know, for the most part, the key thing is that the greenhouse. is no longer there. I don't know who's sharing the screen click on you to use. It's right, right. There's a stem of cards, and you can have different attributes being displayed, and you can click on them and get more information. And there are different possible views. And so it's pretty cool. And I think it provides a lot more information than we had before. As a reminder, before when we had this big graphic with the greenhouse with categories, you could not actually click on anything on that map because it was technical reasons it was not practical to maintain links everywhere. So now this is the tool that's being used across LF. And so we are up to speed with this. Let's keep. Well, again, if people have comments you're welcome to engage and there is a repository that holds all this information. And our rune has been active in helping out to implement the details behind this. And deserves credit for that. And if you have comments to, again, feel free to buy them. So as far as the backlog is concerned, again, I think we can close this as done. Arun, am I missing anything? Would that even need a vote? No, I don't think so. It's like we, you know, we agreed we needed to do this. The task force was created. It has completed his job. It's, I mean, I'm not sure how the opinion just market has completed. That's it. I don't think we need a vote. This is like, I don't think we need to vote on facts. Although, you know, they are alternate facts for some people, but Gonna say nowadays we might No, I do not want to endorse that point of view. Sorry. I guess credit also goes to Tracy first. This thing that she started initially and I just wanted to ask you if you want to bring out the topic that the outcome of the last meeting was that if more task forces are required, specifically for the topics that we had, it will be brought up, right. Like, that is still and there is still the possibility that the future work on this could get extended. Yes, that's a good point. I mean, we had quite a few discussions. Some of them were not directly related to this particular effort, kind of, you know, they were like side tracking kind of topics. And we agreed not to drag on this task force try to tackle these questions within the existing task force but instead to close it call, you know, call it a day for now, and say a any of those topics if we want to follow them on, we can create new tasks, so that it's clearly acknowledged that it's a different topic and then people, you know, who have not participated in this particular task force get a chance to participate as well. That's why I'm interested. It's close the label you need to put. Yeah. Thank you. All right, we're out of time. But I'm glad we killed a few of those will continue. And for now, I just want to thank you all for joining and have a good week. We'll talk again next week. Goodbye. See you.