 Aloha, and welcome to Business in Hawaii with Reg Baker. This is a show that discusses and promotes small business success stories in Hawaii and their owners, and occasionally we have organizations that support small businesses and help them to succeed. Today we have one of those organizations here today, Funtagio, and we got the vice president in charge of operations here in Hawaii, Kara Heelman. And I'm probably not saying that correctly, so she'll correct me on that. Kara, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you very much. You've been in Hawaii for a while now? Yes, born and raised here. Born and raised in Hawaii. Whereabouts? Where were you born? In Aia. Aia? Seven Aia grad. Do they have a hospital in Aia? No. Oh, at Queens. Is that where you're at? Yes, Queens. Queens. There you go. All right. No, so you were born and raised here, and you went to the mainland for education? Yeah. And where did you go to school? I went to the University of Hawaii first, and then I've got my MBA at Vanderbilt University. Vanderbilt. Very good. Very illustrious school. Yeah, it's a great school. Go Commodores. There you go. All right. And then did you work on the mainland for a little while? I did. After graduating, I worked for, gosh, many organizations from small little startup tech firms that are trying to get their funding in Silicon Valley to massive organizations like AeroMark, 225,000 employees in 22 countries. A lot of healthcare experience, working for Baxter when they went through the debestiture, and then decided to branch out on my own and become a consultant. And what were you doing with these companies while you were there? In human resources. All HR stuff. All HR stuff. So it would start with some more tactical things in recruiting and training in development, employee relations, and then over the years move to more strategic type of activities, workforce planning, culture building, and such. Culture building. That sounds interesting. Yeah. So you've got a pretty diversified background. And then you decided to come back to Hawaii? That's right. Decided to come back to Hawaii. And that's when Vantagio reached out. Right. So I've been part of Vantagio for two years as a consultant, and then more recently leading the HR, the Hawaii market here. Hawaii market, right. And now the owner is also, she's here fairly often as well, right? She is. Lorraine Bifuco. Yeah. She is. She has a home on Maui in Lahaina. So our first office was in Lahaina, and then she moved it to Kihe. And then this year we opened an office in Honolulu. Very good. As a matter of fact, I think you just had a blessing. We did. We had our office blessing yesterday. It was really nice. Yeah. It's a good turnout. It was wonderful. It was our close clients, partners, future partners, all the employees were all there. That's true. It was lovely. That was in downtown Honolulu? It was. Pawahi Tower. Yeah. So that makes it convenient, centrally located. Right. And that's very good. You're with Fantagio and you're heading up their market operations here. Can you explain a little bit about what type of products and services Fantagio offers? So we work with organizations who need a variety of different HR consulting help. And it could be quite a large scale project where we run their human resources department. We have some clients where the HR department, they either leave all in the same, we have one that the entire department left on the same day. So we came in and we became their HR organization. And then others like Mom and Pop or small organizations where they have an office manager leading the group, that individual would leave and we would step in for a short period of time help to recruit someone and then pull back to more advisory type of role. Sure. So you can scale it up and down to whatever meets the needs. And sometimes these, at least from my experience, sometimes the office managers are great at running an office, but maybe not so strong in the HR area. Right. Because there's a lot of compliance and a lot of laws that have to be followed. Right. Right. It's either that scenario or you may have an HR person there. However, and this is what I learned when I first started consulting, employers ask us to come in to do things. And so we are involved in some fairly sizable things often, but it only happens infrequently in their world. So you may have an HR manager that hasn't done an investigation in 10 years. And here's something happens, they need to do an investigation. So they call us. They're like, okay, remind me again, what do I need to do? Right. Right. So your experience is much more regular by the nature. Right. Well, because you work with it every day, day in, day out, that's what you do. So your experience is more current than maybe somebody who just does it for time. So you're actually a resource then. People can actually pick up the phone and call you and get advice on different matters. But you're not necessarily there all the time. Right. So I guess that's the scalability. Right. Is it, you know, you can customize. You can be there as often as the client wants or only available via telephone call. Right. So we're here in Hawaii, we're also in New York, we're also in California. We have clients who are in California wanting to create an office in Hawaii or vice versa. They are in Hawaii and they may want to branch out into on the mainland. And so we help them as well. And that can get pretty complicated. I mean, you can have an operation here with employees in Hawaii and quite comfortable with that. But going into California is a completely different experience. Absolutely. You've got to be on top of it because they're pretty quick to let you know when you're out of line. Yes. Yes. That is so true. The employees in California are very akamai. They know employment law and they will tell you, you know, unlike other places, they know their law. So when you start to move into that expansion mode, it's good to have these connections that help you with that. Right. So that's very good. Now, you know, there's been an awful lot of talk. There's been some news out there and we've been hearing about different companies moving and acquiring and there's been a little bit of a shake-up in that, what they call that PEO market. Can you just spend a couple minutes and explain what is a PEO? Right. So there are different models as far as back office and support that some companies either bring in a group to help them with the management of the human resources. And then there are different types of structures where an organization like a PEO would have the payroll and benefits, which is a machine. They have that absolutely streamlined. So it makes sense for an organization that just wants a company to manage these things for them. So it's a structurally slightly different scenario within a PEO. You are actually co-employed by two firms, right? So as an employee, you're employed by the firm that you think you're employed by, but you're also employed by the PEO. And with that, the PEO has tremendous power in regards to negotiating benefit rates versus a standalone firm. So there are definitely pros and cons and it depends on an organization of what they need. And that's why we have so many options that companies can pick. Right. And a lot of times the question of loyalty to your employees come up. And I don't think that's really necessarily part of the, doesn't have to be part of the discussion because what you're doing, the loyalty to the employees is where can they get the best benefits or where can they get the best deal. Having your employees on the payroll of the PEO, working for you, but being paid through the PEO and getting access to all that benefit, that package, it's available to them that maybe a smaller firm can't offer. Right. That's a big plus. It is a big plus. Absolutely. Yes. So that needs to be part of that discussion or that, you know, and the loyalty issue becomes to me irrelevant because of the additional benefits the employees have. They should be more happy being in that environment because they don't need to pay higher benefit rates. Right. Yes. Or they have a better selection of benefits they can choose from. That's right. You know, 401Ks and et cetera, et cetera. That small, tiny operations wouldn't be able to offer. Right. And for companies that don't want to go that PEO route and they wanted to keep things in-house for whatever reasons, that's where they have what they, PEO stands for professional employer organization. Yes. ASO stands for administrative services organization. Yes. I know I know I was getting those two. Just confused. Yes. So, and it feels the same. It does. And one is someone comes in and provides the services for your employees but it stays within the organization and the PEO is when you have the firm. So it's basically helping them with their payroll and maybe being available to answer some HR questions, you know. But the company maintains that payroll and it gets filed. And that's another big plus for going with the PEO is that anybody who's ever had to deal with payroll and making those reports and handling all that compliance and back office piece of it, it can take an awful lot of time. Right. For employers where it's not their core competency, it's not their business, they're not on the payroll business. Why are they, or why would you spend a tremendous amount of time and resources processing this, why not outsource that to an organization? Absolutely. And generally it's the owner that's involved. They might have somebody help with the data entry piece of it but the owner is usually involved with that to some extent, which is taking them away from doing other things, you know. And for a small incremental cost they can have that all covered. And I tell you what, you miss one of those deadlines and file late, that can get very expensive. Right. You know, so it's nice to pass that along to somebody else and let them take care of it. It is. Yeah, it's like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? So at the very bottom of the pyramid, am I getting my pay? Am I getting my benefits? And then if those things are handled consistently and consistently well, then they begin to look at culture and training and other higher level, or not higher level, but higher types of engagement levels within your organization. Well, and that's part of what Montagio does as well, is that you can handle the basic need level. But then you also got the skills and the people to be able to handle, you know, the higher level work too, is that becomes necessary. At what point do you think a company's size needs to be where they need to, for example, can a one person, two person company go to Montagio and have their payroll on HR issues? Oh, sure. Right. Absolutely. So there's no real size requirement. No. This can be any size at all. Right. I say we're fungible. I don't know if that's a real word. We're fungible. We can't work with organizations when they first start out, especially if they're branching out into the Hawaii market. And then as they grow, we can grow with them. And then we hire the HR person that takes over that function when they're at a certain size. That's right. And then you can transfer that back, and that's, again, where we get into the scalability of things. I think it's good for people to know that because there's an awful lot of people that have businesses that are very good at whatever that core business is that they're doing. But some of the other peripheral stuff that they've got to deal with can be very frustrating. Yes. You know, particularly for people who aren't used to working in a very detailed, sometimes analytical environment where you've got to be right in the numbers and the payments. And I guess payroll can be pretty complicated when it comes to numbers and making sure over time, time and a half, new laws that are coming out constantly. Have you been dealing with some of these new laws coming out? Sure. Don't they have one coming out here pretty soon? Yes, in December 1st, absolutely with the exemption status. It's constant. I was at today at the SHIRM conference, and they went through a list of just some litany of all the changes just this year in the law. Boom, boom, they're going through it and we're sitting there and he said, congratulations, human resources, practitioners, for all you've managed in the year. We're like, yeah, because it's true. You go with it when it comes down the pipeline and looking back at all the laws that we've had to manage in the beginning, since the beginning, since this year has been quite a bit. It's almost, to me, it's scary. I mean, being a CPA and having a focus on the tax side, I look at the tax rules and regulations and the constant change that's happening there. And I would say that some of that labor law and rules and regulations are comparable. There's just as many going on over there as there are in the tax side. Definitely. Yes. We're going to take a short break, but you mentioned SHIRM. Yes. And I want to loop back on that after break and find out a little bit more about SHIRM and what you do over there. So this is Reg Baker, business in Hawaii. We broadcast live every Thursday at 2 o'clock. We discuss success stories about businesses in Hawaii. We're going to take a very short break. We'll be back in about one minute and we'll continue our conversation with Kara then. Thank you. You're watching Think Tech Hawaii, Hawaii's leading digital media platform for civic engagement, raising public awareness on tech, energy, diversification, and globalism. Great content for Hawaii from Think Tech. Hi, I'm Chris Lietham with Think Tech Hawaii and I'd like to ask you to come watch my show, The Economy in You, each Wednesday at 3 p.m. Aloha and welcome to The Savvy Chick Show on Think Tech Hawaii. I'm the weekly host at 11 a.m. Honolulu time. Very excited for the next six weeks. We have the Aspire series, which is all about the coolest careers I could find and interviewing and getting insights from these amazing people who want to share it with you and help you live your dreams. Look forward to seeing you on the show. Aloha. Hey, how you doing? Welcome to Abachi Talk. My name is Andrew Lening. I'm your co-host and we have a nice program here every Friday at 1 o'clock on Think Tech Studios where we talk about technology and we have a little bit of fun with it. So join us if you can. Thanks. Aloha. Aloha. Welcome back to Business in Hawaii with Reg Baker. We're here with Vontaggio, the vice president of operations for the state of Hawaii, Kara, and she's going to be explaining a little bit about this organization that she's a member of that she mentioned prior to break. Kara, tell us a little bit about SHRM. What is that? SHRM stands for Society of Human Resources Management. I am part of the Hawaii chapter here. I'm actually playing a little hooky because I should be at my first board meeting. I was just elected to be a board member for the Hawaii show. Congratulations. Yes. I'm going to be a part of your show and they're like, okay, absolutely. You can go. Well, this is proof positive that you are on the show and you're promoting SHRM. Right. So you don't need to know this is good enough. Well, congratulations on that, though. Thank you. To me, that's an important position to be in because SHRM is an important part of the human resource profession here in Hawaii. It's a good group. A good group of people there. It is. They've got an annual conference going on right now, I believe. You know, and it's always well attended and they've got a lot of professionals over there and they've got a lot of breakout groups, a lot of training going on. It's an organization that I think anybody in human resource should probably be a member of. Right. Exactly. Right. And I don't want to put you on the spot, but do you know how much the membership costs roughly? Oh, it's minimal, actually. It was so minimal. It's not registering in my... So just a few hundred dollars. Not even. Not even that. Not even. Well, see, that's a hell of a deal. I know. It's going to help you stay on current on all these issues. Right. They send alerts when things are coming down, the pipeline about new laws, helping us get ready for different changes in the laws, inviting us to training programs so we can continue to sharpen our saw in human resources. Right. That's a great organization. Good group. Well, congratulations. Thank you. And I compliment you for volunteering to do that. Now, prior to the break also, we were talking a little bit about the hierarchy of needs within a human resource environment. And the very basic is to take care of the employees and the paychecks and make sure that everything is being done timely and et cetera. But then as the company grows and that's being handled, there's other issues that might come up. Now, Fantagio helps address these other issues, right? Right. We work in two areas that, especially here in Hawaii, are very valuable. One would be around culture because it's such a unique culture here. And we have a lot of family-owned businesses that want to maintain that family feel. So we want to partner with an HR consulting firm that understands their culture and knows how to identify, articulate, and drive that culture throughout the organization. And that can be tricky sometimes. It can be. And it's really, really powerful stuff, very powerful stuff because once you've articulated what your culture is within an organization, you can recruit to it, you can train to it, and hold people accountable to it. That's important components of maintaining that culture within your organization. And I think sometimes, you know, people from the mainland don't always appreciate that. Right. Sure. It's a local concept that I think is important to maintain. It's a nuance. Yeah. Definitely a nuance. Yeah. So, and you've worked in that area, you actually consult and advise people on this. Right. And there are companies that are large, massive firms to tiny little startups. Startups seem to grasp onto this idea of culture because they oftentimes successful startups have an owner that had a successful startup. And one of the things that they've learned once they begin to grow and grow very quickly is they can erode. So when you're hiring individuals, and I'm the owner and I'm hiring someone, I can pick the right person around culture, but once we begin to grow, I need to depend on my lieutenants to recruit. Right. To make those choices. Exactly. So the culture is not articulated and isn't strong that we begin to erode our culture or our brand as we begin to grow. Right. And that's a growing pain that happens to a lot of different companies because as you mentioned when the company is small and the owners engage the personality of that owner is everywhere. Vibrant. But as the company grows, particularly when you start getting into multiple locations, that owner can't be there all the time. And so some of that personality begins to dilute a little bit. Right. And they actually have a management concept, management by walking around. And so having that owner kind of pay visits and be present and try to encourage that culture. But they need help with that. Right. You come in to help guide that. Right. And a lot of times these organizations, they know intuitively what the culture is, but they need help with articulating what it is. So we've done many different things from card sorts which sounds really strange, like a magic trick, but it's not. Card sorts where everyone can get involved in identifying what the articulated statement of our culture is. No, explain card sort. Yes. What is the card that you're talking about? This is one of the things where I worked with an organization that wanted every single person in the company to be involved in creating what our cultural statement was. And so we created a deck of cards, 52 cards, each one with a characteristic of a part of a culture. And we had every, and we made multiple, multiple decks of cards. And we went through a process where we all got together and did a forced sort where they had to put it in, strongly agree, agree, don't agree. As far as this is who we are. And through that, we were able to identify five very strong themes that ran through the entire organization and then built a statement around it. See, that can be powerful. That'd be very interesting to know about your company as to how does the employees view your culture and what do they see as being prevalent. Right. Some firms want to do it that way where they want it bottoms up, you know, in articulating our culture statement. Some firms are top down, which isn't a bad thing at all. Where the owner saying, I have this very clear vision of what I want it to be. Just help me articulate. And then we create a statement and infuse that for others. We'll see. And then if you can take, if you can do both. And see where the disconnect might be. That can give you some guidance in the areas you need to work on. Yes. So we've done that as well where it's top down and bottoms up and see where we met in the middle. Yeah. And that gives you some feeling. Yeah. Yeah. Because sometimes it's not really what you expect. Right. And so in addition to the cultural consulting that you do. Right. What other higher level type of services do you provide? Right. So we provide executive coaching, career coaching, and career coaching tends to be one-on-one, executive coaching, one-on-one. Oftentimes we do career coaching in groups. And in our industry in HR we call it out placement. So we've worked closely with the organization like recently we worked with McKenna Beach and Gulf Resort and Maui as they closed their doors in July 1st. They had a number of employees. They had 400 employees. So they wanted to provide out placement services to all 400 of their employees. So we worked with their executive or they wanted to provide out-placement services to all 400 of their employees. So we worked with their leadership team, their human resources team, to provide this type of service at incredibly reasonable rates using their internal resources. And at the SHIRM conference, I saw members that were with McKenna and she said, we still talk about what McKenna did for us even today. Well, that's a great way to build loyalty to the company. You know, and whether it's a complete shutdown or just a reduction in force, I mean, providing this to the employees, shows that they got a lot of aloha for the employees. Right, it was a recognition of all the years that these employees have invested in the organization and wanting to, as much as possible, take care of them as they exited and to find another ohana, another place to work. Right, and to be honest, that type of activity is gonna resonate throughout the entire community. I mean, everybody's gonna hear about that. Exactly, and so we've received calls from other employers on Maui and also here on Oahu as far as needing to do some sort of department closure or a little larger-scale closure if we could work with them. Right, that's very, that's good. That's a great to have that kind of service. Explain to me a little bit about executive coaching. What is that? That is working with employers and executives for whatever subject that needs to be discussed. And so let me think as far as some might be, they are in a position now and they wanna groom them into the next level. They are a director and they wanna be a vice president. And so they bring in a coach to work with that executive to groom them into that role. Right, to make sure that the skill sets that they need to be successful at the next level they have. Yes, and part of it is because oftentimes we as leaders sometimes have a hard time articulating when someone is not quite there. Not quite at the performance level. Perhaps it's an interpersonal skills, a communication. So as a coach, then we can have that type of conversation with them. We're not an employee. We have no say of their evaluation or anything like that. We're truly there to help that person grow. There's no hidden agenda. None, whatsoever. You're there to help. And I would think, are you familiar with the Peter principle? Sure. All right, so what you're doing is you're trying to avoid that. That's right. And for the audience who doesn't understand or doesn't recognize what the Peter principle is, can you explain? It's when someone is promoted to the level of incompetence where they continue to be promoted because they're excellent and now they're kind of tapped out. Right, and it's almost human nature to do that. If you're doing a really great job at where you're at, I'm gonna reward you and I'm gonna give you more responsibility in a higher level. And then you move into that position and maybe you're not quite ready for it or you don't have the skills or the training. And then all of a sudden you're doing a mediocre job. And all of a sudden you're not the shining star anymore and I'm not gonna promote you anymore but I don't demote you either. No, so you stay there for a long time. And it's interesting because oftentimes it's not that the person doesn't have the ability or the skill. They just haven't had the coaching. They haven't had someone to share, hey, this is what's going on because people are reluctant to share those things with their subordinates. So people report to them. Well, it's uncomfortable. I mean, you wanna share the good stuff and you don't necessarily be critical. I mean, it's just, it's not fun to be critical. And you don't have to be. You can be coaching but it's just, it's a mindset you have to get comfortable with. Now we're running out of time or we gotta wrap up here very soon but I think you were sharing with me earlier that there's a special day tomorrow. Absolutely, I have two boys, Eric and Andrew. You've met Eric. Andrew, it's his birthday tomorrow. He's turning 13. Very good. Yeah. So he's now a teenager. He is now, he's always kind of been one for a long time but now his chronological age is there and where he is a teenager. So happy birthday, Andrew. Very good, Andrew. Congratulations and I hope it's a great day for him. But thank you for being on the show. Thank you very much. Had a great time. I appreciate your patience in explaining to us the PEO, the ASO and all these different acronyms and good luck with your new position on the Sherm Board of Directors. So this is Reg Baker, a business at Hawaii. We broadcast live every Thursday at two o'clock from two to two 30. We highlight individuals and businesses that have had success in Hawaii. I hope to see you next week. Till then, aloha.