 In this episode, you'll learn how to use design thinking to empower people to actually improve their own lives. You'll learn how to turn their desire for sustainable solutions into a reality. And you'll learn how to educate for the fact that students will be able to add value to the community the next day they graduate. Here's the guest for this episode. Let the show begin. Hi, everybody. This is Kinebra Munyai and this is the service design show. Hi, I'm Mark and welcome to the service design show. This show is all about helping you design organizations that put people at the heart of their business. My guest in this episode enjoys walks along the beach of Canterbury Town. She's currently a program manager at the Hasno Platter Institute at the Cape Town University, also known as the D-School. She's Kinebra Munyai. If this is your first time here on this channel, welcome. And I'd love to have you to subscribe as we bring new videos to help you to level up your service design skills at least once a week. So that's all for the introduction. And now let's jump straight into the talk with Kinebra Munyai. Welcome to the show, Kinebra Munyai. Thank you very much, Mark, for having me. I'm really excited to have you on. You're the first guest from South Africa. So I'm really interested to hear your perspective. For the people who don't know who you are, could you give a brief introduction? Who are you? What do you do? Hi, everybody. My name is Kinebra Munyai. I am one of the program managers at the Hasno Platter School of Design Thinking at the University of Cape Town. I've been working at the Disco since 2016 and the Disco started in 2016. So I've been there since the beginning. Cool. And yeah, the Disco, everybody knows it from Stanford, I guess. Some people might know it from Berlin, but I think not a lot of people know that there's also, I don't know, a chapter. How do you call it in Cape Town? Yeah, so we are part of the Disco family. We are part of the network of Hasno Platter School of Design Thinking. We work closely with the other or we engage with the other Disco as well. In fact, they've helped us to set up the Disco in Cape Town. We are all funded by the Hasno Platter Trust. Nice. Really, it must be an exciting time to actually get the opportunity to be part of the Disco family, I guess. It is. It is. And also, I think, exciting in the sense that there is these two schools of design thinking that are well established, but they are different in terms of the context. We are a school of design thinking in Africa. And we run programs not only in South Africa, but on the rest of the continent as well. Or at least that's what we are trying to do. I'm really again. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. I was just going to say that the context is is quite different from the other two schools. We're going to talk about that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Can you what? We're going, this is the service design show. And I always ask the question to my guest, what is the first time that you got in touch with service design? Do you remember? Is there a time that you got in touch with service design? So the first time I had about service design was at university while I was studying. So my background is in textile design. I studied textile design. And in my fourth year, I decided to explore footwear design. And then in my master's degree, I decided to look at manufacturing systems, particularly focusing on the leather industry. And while I was doing that, I started developing an interest in issues of sustainability. And while I was doing research around issues of sustainability, I started hearing more about service design as well. And and since then, I mean, even though my interest is more on issues of sustainability, I still engage with people that are working in the service design space and also in design thinking, the elements of service design. And they are all interlinked and closely related. So you've sent me three really interesting topics to talk about. I've sent you a bunch of question starters. We're going to use them to do interview jazz. Are you ready to start? Yes, I am. All right, let's let's get off with the first topic. And the first topic, let's do this one. Oh, yeah. The first topic is called democratizing design thinking. And how do you have a question starter and can you show it to us? OK, my question is what if what if. Yeah, what is the question that you want to create around this? So what if we democratized design thinking? And by that, what I mean is what if design thinking was not only, you know, driven in certain spaces, what if we were to open it up so that it's accessible to everybody, to communities, to even those that cannot afford to pay for programs? What if we were to take design thinking into, you know, rural schools, rural communities? What would happen? Because because right now, yeah, because right now, design thinking from your perspective is still done in, I don't know. More affluent, exactly. More affluent areas, more culprits are driving, you know, the the uptake of design thinking and those that can afford essentially drive the narrative and drive the design thinking state. And do you have some what is your take on how to make how to give design thinking to the masses, how to share their approach, how to share the mindset and maybe the skills? Have you seen some encouraging examples? There are some initiatives where people are trying to combine elements of online and in-person training or design thinking. But even there, you still have a situation where people can't access or don't have access to technology, cannot fully participate. And so I think it will require more of a maybe getting to a point where we let go and make it a norm to to do design thinking in various spaces or developing programs that allow for people to participate, regardless of the context. Or what is the thing that we need to let go of? Let go of the notion that design thinking is only for those that have access or those that have opportunities and creating more opportunities for people to for example, I'm thinking about what if we were to start running programs in in the townships, for example, creating opportunities for people in the townships to be exposed to design thinking so that they are able to apply it in their own personal lives or their own projects or businesses that they are trying to develop. Right. What if we were to start moving design thinking away from, you know, institutions of higher learning and take it to a more informal context? Right. Right. And what if we were to start running workshops with communities, you know, individuals in within communities so that they start thinking differently about their own lives and start empowering themselves so that they can see themselves as having the capabilities to change their own lives and empower themselves so that they are able to, you know, change their own situations because we have a lot of high unemployment rate in in South Africa and even on the continent, especially youth unemployment. And part of the reason is because people don't see themselves as having enough capabilities to improve their lives. Or to find alternatives. And you think design thinking could give them an approach, the skills to actually change their own life for the better? Exactly. I believe that the skills that we teach in design thinking and the change in the mindset could be a starting point in helping people realize that they they have the power, they have the capability. They just need a different mindset. They need a shift in the mindset so that they start valuing themselves and trusting in their own creativity and knowledge and capabilities. So what kind of because I think a lot of the things in the design process are really approachable, accessible to most of us. But what are the sort of barriers that we've built that we now need to break down again to? Yeah, to make it more inclusive for everyone. Yeah. So I think some of the the the barriers that we've built is that often we talk about the way we we communicate what design design or design thinking is from it's never really inclusive. It's always from a certain perspective or a certain context. It's never about it's never about speaking to the listening of everybody or making it more accessible by even using references that that makes sense or resonate with the people. It's always using examples. You know, for example, a lot of people that talk about design thing, you would use examples from Silicon Valley. Right, right, right, right. Or they'll make reference to a European company or organization that has used design thinking or has used design. And and that that removes it from the context. It makes it this far removed reality that doesn't really resonate with me if I'm in a village in Malawi or in some other place in Africa. Yeah, because we've now we're showing examples where the design approach has been used to solve business oriented challenges. Maybe it's public service oriented challenges, but we also need examples where the design approach has also led to solving, I wouldn't say trivial issues, but issues where the common man and woman has to deal with on a day to day basis. Yeah, right. Exactly. A long time ago, I think it was with Sarah from Snoke, who was on the show. We had a conversation about there's a difference between letting people participate in the design process and being a design expert. That's not the right word, but it's like it's good when people know how to write. That still doesn't make them a best selling author. But, you know, because they know how to write, they they have the ability to change the life. Is that something is this is also the the direction you're heading in with your thinking, like giving people the basic skills? Yes, because I think if I if I don't if I'm not away, if I'm not made to see the value of what I have as a person, chances are I'm always going to sit somewhere in the corner and feel sorry for myself. Right. But as soon as I get some kind of exposure and start realizing and start seeing value in me, then I become empowered and I become more independent and I become more capable. And I'm willing to go and try stuff out because I am empowered and I am away and I am taught to, you know, to try stuff out. So and I and I feel like that is currently lacking because we always, even when we talk about education, for example, we always talking about education from a point of, you know, formal education. Right. We never talk about education from a, you know, even the people in rural communities, that there is a level of education there. There is a level of knowledge and expertise that they have. But we don't acknowledge that. We always looking at education as, you know, formal, going to a university and getting a qualification and so forth. Yeah. And the skill of co-creation, the skill of asking question, the skill of prototyping, that's not something that you need to go to a university to write. That's an approach you can apply next day. So, yeah, to sum up this and this topic, I think it would be good if people know examples where the design approach, design thinking has been used to solve day-to-day challenges. Let us know if you have some examples down below. Can you, well, let's move on into the second topic because I know that that one is also dear to your heart, just as this one. And you already hinted a little bit on this one. And this one is called Designing for Sustainability. And I invite you again to come up with, how can we? Yeah. So my question is, how can we design for sustainability? I mean, conversations around sustainability have been around for quite some time. And every year, almost every year, there is a big gathering to talk about sustainability and how countries and communities should be striving for sustainability. But in reality, there is no, what is lacking is the practical how-to. The tools that empower individuals so that they are able to work their way towards or prototype their way towards a more sustainable way of living and being essentially. It stays an abstract concept. Like, yeah, everybody is talking about it. And we all, we have policies, countries have policies and we put it on paper. But the practicality, the how, the tools, the basic tools that helps us get there. And there's always this thinking that sustainability is just going to happen at once. But in reality, we should be prototyping our way towards it. We should be starting small, you know, with small projects or small initiatives and multiple initiatives that together can create an impact. So let's let's talk a little bit about how, because this is like, like I said, probably a topic you think a lot about. What are some of the practical things you've seen people do that actually help to deliver sustainability? So one example in the Western Cape here, there is an institute called the Sustainability Institute. It's in the Stelenbosch area. And for the past 20 years, it's now a village, a fully fledged village where they started off a small group of individuals came together to establish this community and they've set up mechanism to make sure, for example, the houses in that area are built using sustainability principles. There is even a school in the community. There is a food garden that supplies food to the community. So it's things like that where a group of individuals can come together and prototype their way into living a more sustainable life. But that sounds, yeah, that's a pretty big, still a big thing. I'm trying to imagine, I'm watching and listening to the service design show and I'm going to work on a challenge next month. A new project is starting and I would like to actually embed sustainability in that project. How do you have some tips for us? How to actually make that happen? Yeah, so one way of doing it is, A, is finding people that share similar interests. Because often we want to start something that we only, I as an individual, I'm only one small element. So finding people that share similar interests is a good starting point. And then starting your project by, for example, identifying one small thing, for example, if that could be as little as how do we manage, you know, maybe let's say we want to reduce our water consumption. So how do we start by, you know, maybe monitoring how much water do we spend and in which areas do we spend that water? And what are the little steps that we can take to make sure that we reduce our water consumption? Because, for example, Cape Town had a serious drought scare for the past couple of years. And it was just a matter of, you know, even amongst friends, starting with the conversation, how do we, you know, we need to start reducing our water consumption, starting by making sure that, for example, if I don't need to flush a toilet, if I'm, you know, it's not necessary. Right. And little things like that over time, they come towards something. And these are little, little initiatives that could sometimes we think of sustainability as having to start this big project, but it doesn't have to start as a big thing. It has to start with little things. And I guess what I got from your example is if you are able to make sustainability part of the initial design challenge, then you become aware that this is something you want to find a solution for, right? So just like and making a part of the challenge, part of the problem that you're trying to solve that will already, I guess, infuse their conversation. Exactly. And also having different perspectives on the project that you're working on as well, because sometimes we get caught up in our own, you know, thinking and we get consumed by it. And we forget that there are other perspectives or other voices that could have contributed to making it even better. So if people would like to learn more about designing for sustainability, what would be the go to place that you would recommend people see, visit, read, watch? So there is a couple of writings, for example, they is what is called and I think Laura spoke about it. The Laura Penin. Yes, the Desis Lab. There is a website where people post various projects that they are working on. But there's also a couple of books that are written by various authors such as Etio Manzini, Lara herself has also written a couple of papers around the topic, but there are also other authors that have written quite a bit. There is a wealth of knowledge and articles and books on design for sustainability. We'll share a few of your favorite resources down below in the show notes. All right, we have one more topic to go. And I think this will be a good one as well. And this one is in words, pretty short, it's called curriculum. When will. Yes. So my question around this one is when will we develop a context relevant curriculum that empowers young people so that they are able to contribute or plow back or give back to their communities? Because currently the curriculum is so focused on what is happening elsewhere and we end up with a situation where we're producing graduates that that end up being unemployable. So what kind of curriculum are we talking about? Education curriculum. So regarding design, design thinking, serious design. Yeah. It can be design. It can be curriculum. OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. OK. Yeah, because even even if you look at examples as a student, even myself, when I started design, a lot of the examples that I was referred to were either European or American. And and I am here in this context. And and those are things that I have no real in-depth knowledge of. So the examples that I was referred to were difficult for me to they couldn't really relate to them. I did the projects that I was required to do, but I feel that I could have done more had I looked for examples that are relevant to me. So there is a there is a gap between the theory and the practice part. I guess that's pretty common in education, at least I don't know. Yeah. Right. What one of the one of the the the key questions that I kept on asking myself after I completed my own studies was OK, I've learned design. But how do I how does that help me be able to contribute back to my own community to my own society? Am I actually able to use what I learned to solve problems in my own community? And a lot and a lot of the times I found myself not being able to answer that. Right. Right. And is that, for instance, a thing that should be part of the curriculum like helping students to figure out how their new skill. Exactly. How they will actually use it in practice. Exactly. Because remember, what what is the role of an academic institution is to contribute towards empowerment of, you know, citizens or, you know, people that are part of a society or a community. That is what the role of academic institutions is, is that they are supposed to be contributing towards upscaling or empowering people so that they are able to contribute to society. And and if if people are trained, they acquire skills, but they aren't able to use those skills to contribute back to society. Then we are failing. Right. Right. It's a waste of of effort and energy on everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So again, the question, have you seen examples where that are hopeful where you've seen people bridge this gap? I think there are initiatives. There are projects. But my argument is that it shouldn't be a project. It shouldn't be. It should be part of the curriculum. It should be a standard in all the curriculum. For example, I ran a challenge, a design challenge with students in December where we asked them to design a future proof approach to teaching and learning. And basically, one of the ideas that emerged from that challenge was that students think that they should be much stronger link between industry, community and academia. So they should be it should become a standard for students to work on on on projects or assignments that require them to engage more with communities so that they don't lose the connection with community and not lose connection with industry as well as academia, because at times a lot of the learning happens in academic institutions, in lecture halls, in in the academic studios. But what we want is students that are at the end of their qualifications are able to reintegrate into society and solve and solve problems that affect societies. Right. So you're a program manager. You have the, I guess, opportunity to influence how a curriculum looks like. What are some steps that you have taken to actually put this into practice? So a lot of the projects that I work on and programs that I design are more around, for example, working on challenges like reducing or increasing the uptake of you know, health services in rural communities. So how do we improve the the experience of rural communities? Because a lot of the feedback that we got when we went with the students to interview rural communities in countries like Malawi to find out why. Why are they not continuing with their, you know, uptake of health services? A lot of them mentioned the fact that they the experience that they had when they visited a local clinic was so bad that they, you know, they decided that, you know, I'd rather not go anymore. And so things like that were getting students to realize that design is not just about, you know, the tangible products that we often associated with. It's also about designing experiences, better experiences for people so that they they're able to see value and and and still, you know, live a better, fulfilling life. So design is more than just the, you know, the the aesthetics. There is more for it than that. Yeah, but basically exposing students as soon as possible to realize examples. Yeah. Exactly. Right, the classroom environment. Exactly. Because the the classroom environment is more curated. Yeah. And it's it's it's in a way superficial. They go a real world out there that they need to integrate back to and work in. And so continuously doing that throughout their university life, prepare students better for that world so that when they go back, when they're done with their studies, it's not a new thing that they need to realize. It's a continuation of what they've been doing. Yeah. Can you we could talk for another half an hour for sure. But we sort of need to head towards the end of this episode. But not before I've given you the opportunity and I know that you haven't prepared for this. But the opportunity to ask us, the viewers and the listeners of the service design show a question, is there anything you'd like to ask us? So one of the questions that I have is especially for the for those that are practicing in the service design space. What, either than, you know, the the tools, what else is an end, you know, improving services? What else is? What else is service design? Or what else does service design offer? Next to the tools and the methods next to the tools and the methods. All right, let's see what happens. Please respond down below in the comments. Or if you're listening to the podcast, go to the YouTube episode and respond there. Can you thanks so much for sharing your perspective on this? I think we had some topics on the show that we haven't covered that much. So thanks for letting us pick your brain. Thank you for inviting me. It's been really great to chat to you. And I think as I was talking, I also came up with even more questions that I would like us to. That's that's exactly what we're trying to achieve here. Not not giving answers, but asking questions. Yeah, thanks. Thank you. So what is service design for you? Leave a comment down below and join the conversation. If you enjoyed this episode, I invite you to grab the link and share with just one other person today. You'll help to grow the service design show family and you'll put a smile on somebody else's face. Thanks so much for watching and I look forward to seeing you in the next video.