 Welcome, lovers and friends. This is the last hurrah of the year. And it would not be right to not bring this bad boy home without the two people who are really responsible for this whole thing coming together. I mean, it's really me. So it's the two of you in addition to me. No, I can give you that. Lauren Morrison, executive producer, lead producer on the podcast, Jared Brady, sound design, also the creator of the theme song and scoring. Lauren said sound design. I think sound design is better. I'll take some people know what scoring is. Let's go with scoring. So speaking of which, what's one episode for you that if you were to send it to people to say this is what the podcast is, you would send because you're most proud of. Do we want vulnerable men? I would say male vulnerability. That was mine as well. I think I'd also say male vulnerability. Yeah, I think it's fantastic. It was rhetoric was like, vulnerable men, be more vulnerable, get in touch. But people never really explore what happens to men when they do. And what are the downsides? Because, yeah, listen, when I put out that video, there are so many men sharing stories about how traumatic experiences in their childhood were used against them in a random argument. We actually did a video recently on a lady who went on a podcast and she said, you know, I have a lot of problems with men. And they're like, what happened? It's like, sometimes I get a little slick when I talk, like, what do you mean? I use their secrets against them. They may not even be consciously doing it, but they're accumulating power. You know, to be vulnerable people is to essentially show your weaknesses, to show like, if I was to think about it in like a castle setting, I'm showing you where the walls would break easily if you hit. And then if you ever want to attack, meet you invading easily. And I'm showing you this because I want to show you I trust you. But 100% flip the tables again, then anytime you want, you won't hurt me. You won't hurt me. I'm giving you what it takes to hurt me deeply. That one was killer. Yeah, that one was killer. That one was killer because my favorite thing about podcast is it may be in life in general, but when someone presents an idea that you're like, I'm thinking one way on it. And then they're they throughout the interview, I'm like, wait, maybe I'm switching sides. Yes. Oh, wait, no, I'm going back to the side. And there's that tug of war of like, what side do I actually fit on? And that one represented that so much for me, especially because you go into it being like, yes, I want vulnerable men. That's what I that's what we want. And then you come out of that episode thinking about all, you know, all these thought starters of being like, maybe I've been thinking about this all wrong. Yeah, it was really great from a female perspective to reflect through that. Because I think that I probably share the thought of many of the females listening to it thinking, of course, I create a safe place for my partner to be vulnerable. It's their fault that they're not showing up. And then when I really started to look at it and pay attention to how do I engage in dialogue? I'll often be accused of attacking someone. And it's like, well, if someone's using those words with you, then you're not creating a safe environment. So that for me was like a big switch and just learning more about paying more attention to my language when it comes to my partner. And then also changing your expectations to meet society where it currently is. So I think yeah, that was my favorite one. It's one that people still tag most to this day, which I'm like, move on. We've got new episodes, but it's one that starts a lot of conversation. I actually think I'm going to switch my answer. I think my favorite one is divorce. I do think about divorce because I personally had the shift within the tabing of that episode and I loved Bart and Gio. So when we were going through whatever we were going through, I'm just like, I fucking hate this guy, but fuck it. You never threw the D word on me? Never. During our fights? You did that. Every single time. Catch this single fucking time. Yeah. Bart and Gio gave what you want a guest to give. They were honest. They were inspirational, but they weren't fake or phony about it. And they were real. And we had a really good vibe because we know each other so well. So that was the dream. And then afterwards to have the three of us and Chris just sitting down like, Lauren, I saw on your notes, you said that I'm keeping in the beginning banter. Even though it takes a long time, but it's stupid. It just goes to show like this is we're family. Yeah, we're really our family. I think you killed that one, Jared. Really? Yeah. I thought you did. So even when I was sitting there, we're having the dialogue. I was like blown away by you, which was a great episode for you to do great because it's about me thinking about divorcing you. And I was like, not leaving him anytime soon. Oh my God. I think a lot of times when people hear divorce, they think of failure. So if that thought creeps into your mind, you're we're tempted to shove it out. Like, no, I can't think that. But I haven't thought that in our relationship, but I also I would allow myself to go there because I am not afraid of divorce. And I think it is because I witnessed two divorces. And did you see the divorces that you saw as a positive thing? Like, thank goodness that they divorced. As I matured, yes, I can see how the divorce was beneficial for the individuals. But when it happened to me as a kid and witnessing my parents split up or my mom go to divorce with her with my stepdad, I was like angry about it because I was affected by that directly. You did great. Thank you. Now, divorce is a heavy topic. I mean, I think it's one of those things where I think everybody who is in a marriage thought about it, they don't always admit it. Have you ever really thought about divorcing me? Oh, I would be lying if I said I didn't lie. No, I would be lying. I would. I would. And I don't think it's a I don't think it's a case of me being like, I'm going to divorce and I just think of there's times where we're getting to friction and then I'll let my mind drift off of if this were to end. What what would life look like? You know, so I don't know if it's like, I'm done. I'm ready to divorce and but it's more or less like that could be a reality, let me like drift off into that moment. You never even said anything to me because you listened to that episode and I made a pretty big revelation and change of heart in the episode. Where I sit with it today is that keeping divorce on the table as an option is not a healthy option for me and my marriage and my relationship. And I recognize in myself that I am on that journey of moving away from fear to love. And I if you watch my YouTube channel, you'll know that you've seen the shift happen in me and that's the journey that I'm on right now. And I'm going to be honest with you, I am afraid of letting go of fear. I am afraid of looking stupid. I'm afraid of two years from now. This podcast episode being thrown back in my face because something happened and I have no reason to hold on to this fear. And that's why, despite how uncomfortable it is, I'm willing myself to let go of it. And I am going to attempt to enter into a brand new territory with a person, with my husband, with my Jared Brady, of loyalty and of devotion and life partnership, true life partnership. It's a mic drop moment. You know, you haven't told me. Yeah, if you didn't come to me and like put your hand in the small of my back and say like and say what, that you're going to stop thinking about divorce? Yeah, like, thank you. No, thank you for stopping mentally threatening to leave me every time I do anything that displeases you. I'm not discerning. That should be like standard. It's like, oh, yeah, you took out the trash. Good job. Oh, do I get a cookie for washing the dishes today or what? No, I'm removing the fear out of our love. That is extremely difficult. I believe I agree with that. I guess for me, I didn't come off like removing the fear. I came off removing like, you know what, this is my partner. I'm committed. Instead of being like, oh, you know, he pissed me off. Divorce time. I don't know how that deserves reward. Lord, that was a mic drop moment. Was it? You know, yes. She only said that to please you. If she glared at me real quick. That's why Lauren doesn't get breakup threats in my mind. What are people gravitating to the most out of all the episodes that we've put out? Lauren is the analytics person. I'll let you answer this one. Let love change you. That was a great interview and a really fascinating topic. It actually made its way as Jasmine was saying to us onto like some gossip sites. Yeah. So it became like a, it became a conversation starter in some places we did not expect, which is always very, very cool. You're finding yourself now in this space where not only do you love yourself more through the partnership that you're in and like yourself more, which I think is very, very different. Yeah. Liking yourself in reflection of your partner, but you now are creating something with your partner, which is another life. Yes. Have you thought about what does the next version of you look like with Baby J in your arms? Yeah. I think what I'm going to prepare for is to be able to talk candidly about everything with my kid. My kid's going to know that they are black and that they are Asian. And they are going to really own what came with that. As an American, it's my responsibility to understand the lives and the needs of the cultures that exist around me. So whether it's black, native American, Hispanic, like I live and dwell with all of my neighbors that are of different races. So I need to understand what each journey is because not everybody is the same. But then now being married to a black man, I need to understand even more his journey and his perspective so that I can be of genuine support and allyship to him. But then now having a blood child who's going to be of those mixed races, I need to learn even more and adopt it because I can't have this black child only be grown up to know Vietnamese culture. This black child can't just- Beautifully said. He needs to not understand where his ancestors, his or her ancestors come from or what hardship the Jenkins had to go through specifically or what black people had to go through to get a voice in this country. Like there's so much more now because you carry the blood of lineage and have so many who have done so much and died to be in your place. And she was really candid and really honest and set it in a way that can be polarizing, but she stood in her truth. And I think that everybody has to respect her for that. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if I should say this, but I think that one was my least favorite out of all the episodes. Not because of Jeannie. I think I just was never interested in that topic to start with of like, you know, what can love change you into? I guess, I don't know. I would agree with you in that. I initially thought that it was a softball topic. I was kind of like, pfft. But I will say that what Jeannie brought to the conversation and then what, you know, you even, because I know you and I were in that third segment kind of sharing how you two have changed through this relationship. I think that that made it a lot more real and a lot more relatable. Plus even some of the audience voice submissions that came through on like some of the extremes that people had gone to to change for love or where people put up their barriers. Like it became a really fascinating episode. But I would agree with Jared that when we originally started playing around with that topic angle, I was like, meh. We've had that happen a couple of times where we didn't think that we had an episode. And then we figured it out and there was an angle that we could take that really made it take off for people. What was your favorite interview? Oh, to be honest, I loved the very first interview I did for this podcast full stop period was with the almost 30 girls. Cause I do the show and the whole time I'm like, keep looking around like, where the, what a vlog camera is that? Like where's the, I'm looking for little clues and hints and you see you're covering your face. You know what happened? The show ended, nothing happens. And then we go home where you eye rate. Oh my gosh. I couldn't even get to the highway. He's like, what's wrong? And I was like, what's wrong? Yeah. This man, I fucking love that. What's wrong? Don't you know that we've been engaged for four days in my brain? And I just had such a blast in that discussion. It was fun. We stayed on topic. We made fun of ourselves. We, they brought insight. It was truthful. So that was a lot of fun to tape. Yeah. My favorite one to watch was the herpes one. Oh my gosh. Let me just, yes. Let me just erase my previous answer. The best interview was herpes. And Lauren, you cut that down. I remember every time that you would do it like, okay, I'll stop the point right here. You would keep listening and be like, oh, there's five more minutes of incredible content. Like Shira came in and blew me away. And this experience for me has really forced me to look at myself and to understand my needs, understand what intimacy really means to me, consent, and also understand that it's okay to be rejected. Wow. I think that that is such a powerful sentiment that is weak and a fresh take. I want you to unpack that more. With betrayal in this case that happens when you don't disclose or you're not having these more intimate conversations. It's not just a betrayal to the person you're with. It's a betrayal to yourself because you are also assuming that someone's not going to love you for all of you. You're rejecting yourself. Yeah. That was hands down the best interview. And that was actually episode two for us, which was really risky. It was episode two. But with such a strong storyteller. And we also had Dr. Aina Park. That was a bomb ass episode. That was a really great episode. I learned so much in that episode. Things that I didn't even know that I cared to learn about, I learned about. But yeah, that interview, I just remember trying to edit it and being like, I can't cut this down. There's just too much. Everything that's being said needs to be said. So I think that it was a really good one. I also felt very strongly in that way with the Ashley C Ford interview as well. That interview gave me chills to listen to because it was so powerful. It was so revealing and it was so courageous. And I remember when we did that, like when Ashley came forward and said that, that's what she wanted to talk about. You and I both came off the phone and we're like, we're not going to talk about that, are we? And so we were kind of going like back and forth on like, okay, how do we approach this subject? But do it in a smart way. Do it in a compassionate way. And then I remember you started the interview and you're like, let me just be honest and say that this conversation kind of terrifies me. And today we're talking about rape. And I was just sitting there on the other side of the screen being like, God damn, we just went there. Well, I think it was the energy that Ashley brought. Yeah. Oh yeah. Like Ashley had a way of talking about something that was super traumatic in a way that was like, it was almost like she went through it. She had her times of like torment with that time and then she was over it. I think because we know that sexual assault is a lot more common than any representation in media or news would indicate. We know that it's very, very common. I think we should be open to having conversations about what the aftermath of that kind of violation does and or can do to a person's intimate experience. I think we've seen it go one or two ways in a lot of our representation, which is that a violation of a sexual nature causes a person to either shut down when it comes to intimate experiences or it causes them to become wildly promiscuous in a way that is destructive because they are doing it without intention or without any real care for themselves. There are more ways than those two ways for this situation to turn out. And when I was sexually assaulted because I am a survivor of sexual assault, I felt like something was wrong with me because I did not have one of those two reactions. And I thought those were like the sanctioned victim reactions. It was very uplifting. Yeah. You didn't leave that interview feeling tired. I didn't leave the interview feeling tired and drained. I think a lot of times I've talked about rape before. I've left feeling very tired and drained and not sure if I said the right thing or did the right thing or just like not really, not unsure is probably the best thing. But with that interview, I left uplifted. I love that we went there and I love that we followed your lead on that because I would have tiptoed way around that, just not knowing. So I think that, and I really respected you a lot as a journalist in that episode as well. I was like, wow, Shan is really great at this. And I loved how vulnerable you were even as a journalist, like this is your podcast, but you came on and you're like, it terrifies me because I'm afraid of saying the wrong thing. It terrifies me because I have my own unprocessed experience and it terrifies me because I am afraid of opening myself up for other people to share their experiences. And for me not being in a place where I know how to respond appropriately or that I don't necessarily even want to be a sound board for so much pain and grief. And I remember just not going crazy, like taking out all the pauses because I wanted to really portray what this interview was doing for you, what emotions it was tapping into for you and everything. So I thought you did such a, not only did Ashley did such a great job being interviewed, but you did such an incredible job interviewing her. Thank you, Lauren. So what about the most fun episode for you to make? You know what I love a fun doing? And it's actually the episode that I am not that in love with, but porn sucks. Segment three with Lauren and I was a ton of fun to do. That was a fun interview. Because it's like the, you see the uncomfortable of Lauren and then you're so comfortable with it. So there's that clash happening. Thinking about this conversation, I realized that we talk about everything except for sex, which interestingly now we work together and I talk about sex for a living, which means that we have to talk with each other sex lives now. And you get to find out how much of a prude I am. That's an interesting fact, because I was reflecting on that and thinking to myself, is Lauren a prude or is Lauren a lady in the streets and a freak into sheets? Prude, okay. Porn sucks was the most fun for me for sure. Is it because you had sexy homework? I had sexy homework. So my sexy homework was to watch the Erica Lust film three, the series three. And again, like I don't watch porn. So I just remember like trying to fit it in. Like I was doing it while like doing laundry and Chris came over and he was like, what are you doing? What are you, what is this? Like it was like full on masturbating. And I'm just like, they're folding socks. And he's like, why is this, why is this happening? And I was like, I'm doing work right now. This is my job now. But yeah, I think that was, and it was kind of interesting because of the truth that this is something you do for a living and it's something that you and I don't talk about. Like we talk about everything else, but we don't talk about, because whenever it gets brought up, I'm like, I shut it down because I don't like sharing that stuff. Let's, okay. An episode that you're in that you would be a little embarrassed about that you would be a little embarrassed if someone in the street said that they were listening to it. Oh, shot. Oh, shot for me too. Why for you? I just think like, you know, there's a level of, you know, what happens in the bedroom, stays in the bedroom. When he actually, I was talking to an old work colleague of mine yesterday and he brought it up. He was like, you know, like that part where your sister and her husband were having sex in the closet. And I was like, that's weird. Yeah, see, stuff like that. There's just things that, you know, it's just a little awkward to hear, you know? So I would say that wouldn't be the most embarrassing one that I'd be like, you know, there's other ones. That one's embarrassing for me because I'm talking about something I can't do. I'm like talking about an insecurity and I want to say like a deficiency. So penetration, orgasm, specifically, my lack of an ability to have one without also giving myself outer clitoral stimulation at the exact same time. When I first started initiating sex and inviting sexual experiences and sexual partners into my life, I wasn't getting anything right. I didn't feel an emotional connection. I didn't feel physically tended to. And furthermore, I felt physically broken. Sometimes people bring it up to me like, oh, I like, you know how you can orgasm and penetration? I'm like, uh-huh, you know? So that one to me, I'm really proud of it though. And I know that resonated with so many, the episodes that people repost the most is episode three, which is vulnerability and episode one, which is O-Shot. I constantly see people who like post that one and just say thank you for making it. So I know that it was healing for a lot of people and it was really freeing, but it is, it's very uncomfortable for people to know that about you. Yeah, it's a tough one. I also wouldn't mind if people didn't listen to Barbies and Humping Pillows. That's the one I, when I was editing that one or scoring that one, I was like, this is a little embarrassing. I both love it and I feel that way. This is a little embarrassing. But I was like, you know, Shan shares these stories all the time. She might be used to it, but I was like, for me, I'll be like, oh, I might have scrapped this one. Yeah. But I might have scrapped this one, coursing your friend to hump her pillow. Yeah, I remember this part where I was cutting it and I was scoring it. I was doing the initial scoring of it and there was this part where I added sexy music to it and I was like, as if this moment couldn't be any cringe here. Right, because we're talking about a six-year-old. Our pillows had faces. They were like, back in the day, those pillows that came with expressions, I wanna say that it was a spud, like a potato pillow or something. And I was like, Jaylen, why don't we have some fun with our pillows? And she was like, okay. And so I was like, kiss your pillow. And so we kissed our pillow. And then I was like, show your pillow your shoulder. And you show your pillow to the shoulder. And I was like, hug your pillow really tight. And I can't remember how far this went, but I definitely know that it wasn't like, hug your pillow really tight. It was like, hug your pillow really tight. Yeah, that part where I was taught, you talked about being uncomfortable in that Barbie's moment with the pool. I almost felt like I was back in that room. I was seeing it from your perspective because I was probably so into the scene. And I zoomed out in that moment and saw you in the corner like, what is going on? So I think that that was, yeah, it was illuminating for me, but it also wasn't another one that people damned me a lot about to say. Like I felt so vindicated by this episode. I've had experiences like this. I always felt weird. I always felt a lot of shame. So yeah, I did get a lot of those. Yeah, I mean, it's natural. The ones that are gonna be embarrassing are naturally gonna be ones that are gonna be the most helpful to people who, yeah, it resonates with. I feel like that one was, especially cause mom was in it too. And there were so many moments where mom was just straight denying all of it. Was she defending herself? The part that surprised me was the fact that she said that she was obsessed. Obsessed with sex. That surprised me. I feel like, I don't even know, did she live with us? I'm like, again, you know what? I understand that she had curiosity, but I would put it down to what child doesn't. They just have that kind of curiosity about their body. But was it something that she talked about all the time? I would not say yes. No, she did not. She had a million other things to talk about and think about. It's like, you had the lewd daughter. No, I didn't. No, she wasn't. That never happened. I never used the word lewd. How come we're not talking about her fascination with Play-Doh? Like, why are we talking about that? Yeah, no, I did feel bad for her in that episode. But that's part of the problem, though, because there should be a sense of pride that this was an area of life that I was just naturally connected to, and now look, she has an entire career out of it. So at the time, it felt scary, but now looking back, I'm like, she's exactly where she needs to be. But I think Mom still had to reconcile with the fact that she could hear her friends listening to it. Let's be honest, sexual liberation is very new right now. Not that it's always been, but widely accepted or mainstream. And so I think that it's still, she's in that mind frame of like, this is private time, you know? But speaking of Mom though, I felt that she did such an excellent job in the Living Apart Together episode. She was incredible. She was, you know, just even on that note of like, it's not easy, they don't come on and like share this stuff about themselves. We do it to be a part of your world a lot, but she was just so open. Both her and Dad were actually just really open about some of the ways that they've reflected. Like these are people who have been married for 40 years and who are listening to someone in their like 20s talking about marriage and being like, that actually sounds right. No, I agree. I'll tell you why is because with my girlfriends and you know, with Joan and them, I have also used the term, you know what? Brian and I have been a couple and they're like, what, I educated them. And they're like, wow, I like that. So after a while, you start educating people about the term and they sort of gravitate to it. And I don't know whether they're using it in their language or if they even remember it, but it's definitely something that going forward. I can see it being out there in my circle because I will start educating people on it. The openness to learn something new about their own relationship versus how easily you could dismiss it because it's like, what does any of us know? Like we're babies, right? Compared to them. That episode was a lot to film. It was a lot of, it was just a lot going on in my head because I was both protective but I wanted to be explorative at the same time. And so in the edit of that, of thinking what do we keep out? What did we put in? Because I don't wanna make anybody look bad because it is an alternative style of love and connection and it can be misinterpreted. So we're just handling it with care, but also with honesty. I think that was the tough balance with that episode. Right. Round of applause team. We have completed 2021. We started this podcast on October the fifth and I believe that we did some really incredible things. Number 26 overall in all podcasts. Number 26 in overall podcast. Number one once in relationship category, up to number 12 in the society and culture category. Number nine in society and culture category. Incredible conversation started. Who is your dream guest? Oh, let me re, I wanna say knee-jerk reaction is Gabrielle Union just because people have really outlined that she would be fantastic for this podcast. And I will say this in 2021, Dr. Helen Fisher, who is a long-term mentor of mine. I don't know her, but I have followed her career since the beginning of my sex education career. I quote Dr. Helen Fisher all the time. I actually have all of her books. And so when we got the email that she wanted to be on the podcast, I was blown away. So that Esther Perrell obviously would be another huge one. Will Smith. Oh, Lauren, don't, don't pull on my, I really, really wanna do an episode about the relationship of fear in love. I really, I think from that divorce episode, that theme resonated so loudly. And the way I've seen people talk about that episode since has been specifically around that theme. So I think that is an episode. There's no other guest. Other than Will Smith. Yeah, he'll kill that. So I don't know what you guys have to do. You gotta just. Who you gotta sleep with. Make that happen next year. Love is in France. Love is in France. I'm gonna take you on a trip, baby. I don't pretend, I say. Love is in France. I'm gonna hold you down down to the end, I say. Love is in France. Love is in France. I'm gonna hold you down down to the end, I say.