 Hello, hello, and welcome to another coordinating call of the M25 the movement for Europe featuring progressive ideas you won't hear anywhere else. Today, we're trying something different for our fort might be cool. We're going to be discussing just one country and today it's Germany. Countries coming up are going to be the UK, France, and Italy, but today it's Germany. What's going on in Germany politically there's an election obviously this year, what can DM potentially do about it. We'll start with 20 minutes of interventions from our coordinating collective, and then some interventions from grassroots members in Germany grassroots members of DM 25. We're keeping our interventions down to two minutes so that everyone gets a chance to speak. Want to remind everybody joining me in this call to please put the word stack in the zoom chat if you would like to say something, and you out there if you've got comments questions ideas thoughts that you want to fling at us just put them in the YouTube chat because we're live and that's how things work. And we may be reading them out between the interventions so let's kick it off over to Juliana. Hello everyone. Happy to start on this topic. First I want to give like a short overview of what I believe now in our society in Germany are the most important issues for the people. I mean, not only because of the COVID crisis I think that most of this was a problem before as well but many, many things accelerated through the problems accelerated through the crisis. One issue, definitely that's, that's a problem that it's reaching its peak is I think the housing problem in in Germany and in cities that students cannot get flats anymore to study in the cities families cannot afford apartments houses anymore. And that is a big, big, big crisis that needs solutions, because many end up homeless, and will will end up homeless in the future even more so. The next thing is, of course, the, the, the employment contracts, businesses, the whole economy, which 50 over 50% of people cannot really, you know, cannot really put money aside, they struggle at the end of the month. And this is really the majority of people working in Germany it's migrants, for example, not only seasonal workers but migrants that work in, in a service jobs in cleaning jobs and all those jobs that many people don't want to do are done by migrants and they get really bad, bad contracts and not fair payment for these jobs. And that goes through all society, elderly people have not enough pension, they have no possibility to work without getting taxed for their work as well so they end up with going through the streets and looking for bottles, you know, to, to get the deposit for the bottles so they can have something to eat. It's really like there's a lot of poverty that is unseen in Germany because you know many people think that poverty starts with being homeless on the street. When in fact when you don't own anything when you don't have like, when your car breaks and you cannot prepare it that's that's also poverty is just there's a certain lifestyle that that sees in our society, like, everyone is fine when in fact over 50% of people are not fine and then if you see in like the division between Western Germany and Eastern Germany it even gets worse and Eastern Germany is really, really, really like a social hotspot of unemployment and of people with not earning enough. So, and then third big point of course is climate crisis and sustainability and so on. So, I think that that are really core issues of our society, as well as of course there are others as well but I think that they are like the most urgent ones. So, then we have of course elections this year, and I'm not in the hopes of getting a lot of change to be honest. And I can also briefly explain why I've read the program of the greens which are the huge topic these days is is bearbock the woman that is now Spitzekanidat for the greens in Germany. She gets compared to Jacinda from New Zealand you know there's kind of this side guys which says to people like she's a young woman so this will mean change. And I've sat down and I read that program to be honest. And I think it's a huge wish list of things that can be done but there are some factors which tell me that even the most progressive parts in their program will end up in the final program because they already said they want a coalition with the CDU. They might go into a coalition with the CDU, which is the Chris Democrats and the Chris Democrats won't sign an agreement with them. So, with this program they have right now, like example, the Greens want the limitation on the highway. So you can only drive 130 kilometers and in Germany we know you can it's unlimited at the moment, and the CDU would never, never agree to that, I think. There are many things that I believe are just, you know, they push those things now and say we will change this and that. But I think at the moment they will they will get elected and sit down with the other parties we will get another Frankenstein coalition that will end up with nothing but what the CDU did the recent years. And last thing I'm going to say on the Greens program is that it is practically an extension of what the CDU prepared in terms of environmental, environmental ideas like hydrogen proposals that the CDU already worked on for the last year. So basically, I think that the Greens will just extend the politics that we saw in Germany in the recent years with some minor changes which may will make society feel good. Thanks Juliana, sorry to rush you off. Yanis. Hello comrades. It's awful that we meet this way. This pandemic has erected Dm25s capacity to mobilize the way we were doing before the pandemic, losing the opportunity to go from country to country from city to city to meet with people with all of you. And to, you know, create the dynamic that brings in new members as a result of get togethers. This is a great loss for us as a movement. Now, let me stick to what is of the essence now because we can get bogged down in discussing many different trees and lose sight of the forest. The reason why we created Dm25 was because Europe had become the European Union, not Europe, the European Union had become and remains and even gets worse in that regard, a cesspool of class war and austerity against people and planet. And the existing nation-state based political parties, including those of the left and the Greens, were singularly failing to provide even a smidgen of an aorta of hope of change. So what you just said is absolutely consistent with the reasons why we created Dm25. We thought the Greens could change things or the Lincoln could change things. We wouldn't create the Dm25. We would have, you know, maybe have created a think tank. Now, in other words, we are facing a very serious situation. The reasons for creating Dm25 have never been more powerful and pertinent and relevant than now, but at the same time we have never been weaker than we are. Let me get a few things out of the way. Dm25 will never stand for any kind of narrative which prioritizes the clash between the north and the south, the east and the west, one country against another. This is what makes us special. That's number one. To those who in the south, in Italy, in Spain, in Portugal, in Greece, talk about the importance of the southern countries that are deficit countries and poorer countries getting together against Germany, against Holland. This we treat with a contempt that it deserves. I personally prefer German oligarchs to Greek oligarchs. An alliance between Italian, Spanish and Greek oligarchs is a nightmare scenario. We need an alliance of working people, of decent people, of green activists, of socialists, of freedom-loving people across Europe, north and south. That's what Dm is for. And there's no other movement that does that. And there's no other movement that does that on the basis that we need, on the basis of an agenda for changing Europe, not through reform. This European Union is unreformable. It can never be reformed. It has to be transformed through conflict, through clashing, in the same way that the bourgeois state can never be reformed, simply by discussion. And it requires a massive clash with the establishment. We need to clash with the establishment. So we are unique. Who says that? Europe is caught up between two camps. One is the loyalists. Anything that happens in Brussels is a good thing. And maybe some thinker needs to be happy. Maybe it's not going fast enough. This is what Dr. Mario Draghi says. This is what the social democrats say. This is what the Christian democrats say. Europe is moving glacially in the right direction, but not fast enough. No. Europe is moving in the wrong direction very fast. This is what we think. But we are equally opposed to the other extreme, which says, OK, so this Europe sucks. So let's blow it up. No, we're not going to blow it up. We're going to confront it from within and we are going to transform it. Nobody has that narrative across Europe. And this is why it is essential. The European transnational movement for clashing with the establishment, not in order to destroy the European Union, but in order to transform it, understanding that it is not reformable. That's the second point I want to make. The third point I want to make is that, and that pertains to you, we can do nothing without Germany. You can say that because I'm not German, right? If I were German, it would sound like a kind of nationalist narrative. But I'm not German. I'm speaking to you here from Greece, so I have the right to say that. Why? Because Germany is the economic powerhouse of the European Union. And you cannot transform an economic block, a social block, a political block without the powerhouse, the engine. The train cannot go anywhere without this engine. So you have to take it over on our behalf and we need to help you. And this is what we're here for. We're here to take over Germany. Not us Greeks, but you Germans with our help. And, you know, of course, that sounds really eutopic and crazy. But, you know, the alternative is that we simply sit back and take it, take whatever happens, because nothing else is going to work in my view. This is why we created DM25. So we need to become better, more radical, but not lose sight of the correctness of the reasons why we created DM25. Finally, this is only the beginning, this conversation. So we're not going to solve everything today. And I have to say I'm too tired even to be standing now because I started my day at 4.30 in the morning in Copenhagen. From there, I took a taxi, I went to the airport, flew to Frankfurt. From there, I flew to Munich. From there, I flew to Athens. Then I went to the port of Piraeus, Coteferi and came home. So, you know, if I'm incoherent, forgive me, right? But this is just the beginning of relaunching DM25 in Germany. We had a lot of problems. We had lots of misunderstandings. There were comrades that misbehaved, including some of us. But we don't have the luxury of naval gazing, of introspection, of constantly looking at the internal processes. We've done that, we spent the whole year looking at the internal processes. Now it's the time to relaunch DM25 in Germany. We have to do it in Italy, we have to do it in France, we have to do it in Greece, we're doing reasonably well. We have to do it in Denmark, where I just came from. But Germany is the battleground alongside perhaps Italy. Because of Italian debt, not because Italy is more special than other countries, but because it's got a 3 trillion euro debt. And this is why, Italy is very important. And Germany is very important because, you know, it is the steam engine that is pulling the whole train. So, we have elections coming up. Angela Merkel is going to be history. My personal tragedy, and I've said that in various German media recently over the years, is that, even though I think that Angela Merkel wasted enormous political capital and was responsible for doing a great deal of damage to both Europe and Germany, the worst part of it is that we're going to miss her when she goes because whoever comes next, especially the Green Party, are going to be far worse than Angela Merkel. Especially the Green Party. And allow me to finish on that note, which I know is very dissonant and will upset some. I know what I'm talking about. And what do you mean by that? So that I'm cleverer. I just had the experience. Back in 2015, when I was finance minister of grace, and I was in Berlin for the first time, and then the second time, and then the third time I met with all political parties. And of course, I met with the CDU, you know, I wasn't doing anything else. I was constantly was walking on show, right? But I also met the SPD. I met with the greens. I met with the link and I met with the FTP. And I have to tell you that the worst, the worst, the stupidest and most reactionary were the greens. Why? Because they sound all fluffy and nice, but they truly believe in austerity. They truly believe that in order to take, you know, to spend one euro on a poor person or on green energy, you have to take it from somewhere. No, you don't need to take it from someone. I mean, I want to take it from somewhere. I want to see, you know, the corporate is being taxed for social justice, justice purposes. But in a Europe which is printing trillions of dollars every day and gives it away to the to the rich, it is not true that we have to raise a billion euros by taxing X, Y and Z in order to spend it on green energy or spend it on the poor. This is all rubbish. The greens are the, you see the difference. Shameless doesn't believe in austerity. People like they said, I prefer that said, you know why? Because they're class warriors. They want to destroy the working class. They're out there to get workers. They want to transfer wealth from the working class to the to the rich. And they're doing it, you know, behind closed doors. They're even open about it. So it was said to me, you know, the Greek rice is a great opportunity to reduce social expenditure in Germany. I appreciate that it is the stupid greens that I can stand who, you know, have all this with this wonderful, you know, image of being modern and socially minded and ecological and so on. But when it comes to the economics of the stuff and in the end it boils down to economics because we need to spend trillions for the green transition and to fight poverty with nice words. We cannot do anything. Yeah, they believe in austerity. They believe that, you know, they fall prey to the view which is a narrative for the right, but they believe it. You know, the right doesn't begin with elected Donald Trump elected Boris Johnson got elected. You know, so they will now they keep spending money that the greens believe in austerity. They are a clear and pleasant present danger. So anyway, we need to talk to the to the to the followers of the greens to their greens activists because there are some very good people in there who have been captured by these parties. The same thing applies for the Lincoln. The Lincoln are the budget bureaucrats. They only care about their own positions in parliament and their salaries. We've seen that in the in the main 2019 Parliament elections. That is why we need to reactivate Dm 25 in Germany, because the, as you have said, said, I think that what's happening to the German working classes and it's a crime against humanity. Because you know, if you go to Burkina Faso, if you go to a genuinely poor place and people are suffering, well, there is a reason why they're suffering. It's a very poor place. Why? But Germany is so rich and to have people suffering when they are swimming, the country is overflowing with riches. That is a crime crime against humanity. So we need to be active in Germany for that. No other political party is doing this is interested in that situation from a transnational pan European progressive perspective. And we need to do it for Europe for the reasons why we created the Dm 25. Sorry, I spoke too long, but you know, I'm confused. It's all good. You're on fire. We've got five more minutes of CC interventions, Judith and then Jochen. Maybe we can be a bit more lax with our limitations, right? Our constraints. I mean, you're becoming you're becoming two German comrades. This is so that all the members here get a chance to speak. And, you know, extend beyond an hour. Okay, go for it. Judith and then Jochen. Yeah, you're not going to hear disagreement from me. I think we know what to expect from a green city government. What I would still suggest we do is to, to take advantage of their propaganda to take advantage of their programming which they read all these nice things. They even write that they want to abolish the debt break they write that they want the Euro bond they write that they want to support Southern European countries and so on and so on. So let's try to make these positions more prominent so as to change public opinion in Germany, and the Greens can hardly argue against it if it's in their program right and they're not going to implement it. I have no expectations that they will actually do anything that they write, but maybe we can start to shift opinion here and we need to shift opinion in order to get a broader majority for the policies that we want. Thanks Judith Jochen. Yeah, I think you're very right. My saying that as well as Yanis was right with what he was saying before, don't expect anything from the Greens and I read the program to so I fully agree with the analysis of the politics we can expect from them that to be the German I am and try to help Merchan to keep our timetable I just want to say one thing. I have been working together with all these beautiful people in Germany for the last year, more than a year, forming the board and trying to get the things organized. And I think we have very, very active people out there, but the situation described by Juliana in the beginning with the COVID is making things very hard. One thing I have heard over and over again with all the meetings and especially the last one on Tuesday with the board is we desperately need to meet in person we have to have our personal contacts. And I was thinking today and that it is so terrible I mean, what is what sense does it make if if you stay locked in at home and have no contact to you not to your neighbors because they're afraid to speak to you because they don't want to get the COVID virus, the family and the friends and everybody else you would like to meet and one thing Johannes said last Tuesday, I really liked. He said, let's meet on the first of May on Labor Day, somewhere in the open somewhere at a square or in a park or whatever. And let's invite DMS to come there and just, you know, see each other and have a little talk and then. Well, maybe not even that and I personally would even go a little bit further and say let's show a little bit more disobeying to what they tell us to do. Let's take any possible opportunity to meet in small groups and in open places, keeping the distances and everything. And yeah, have our personal contacts because I personally I missed it so much you can't even imagine, or probably you do. So that's what I wanted to say today. Thank you. Thank you. You're quite well taken, Eric. Cheers, my friend. Hi everybody. I completely agree with everything that's been said so far by those who've spoken very quickly because I'm very keen to hear what our members have to say on this. And because I've been reading some of the comments on YouTube about, you know, what can we do, you know, people in Germany, they don't have an overview of what's going on, they're all delusional, whatever have you. It's very pessimistic. I mean, cynical to a certain extent, it's understandable. But it's very pessimistic and I think we can't afford to be pessimistic. We can't afford to. At the end of the day, regardless of whether, sorry, regardless of whether you can, we can run in this election or not. We need to participate in this election because an election is an opportunity for us to speak politics at the time when people are willing to listen to politics, a topic that's normally very not very popular. And the most dangerous thing right now in Germany is this, you know, in the end, we keep talking about Tina that there is no alternative and, you know, people are forced to believe that there is no alternative. Right now in Germany, we have something even more toxic, which is that there is an illusion of an alternative. There's this idea that things are changing, that the greens are on the up, you know, the green party just because they have green on the tin, you know, they've painted themselves green. That is meant to mean something, a young woman at the helm, and that is meant to mean something in and of itself. And I think what encapsulates a motto that encapsulates this is that all of this is good. It's good, you know, the forces that be, you know, struggling and so on, that a woman is at the helm of a political party and so on. But it's not good enough. You know, this is the key point that there are good elements to what is going on, but it's not good enough. It's not a real alternative. And I think that is the message that DM needs to push during this electoral period that people shouldn't be logged into a false sense of security, because things seem to be changing. We need to really push that the narrative that this doesn't really constitute real change. And even when it does constitute a certain amount of change, it's not enough. It's not up to the task. It's not good enough. So this is not good enough. I think really needs to be the rally for DM in Germany and other countries like Germany where this kind of phenomenon seems to persist. Thanks Eric Johannes. Thanks a lot. Very good to see you all and to, I'm very excited for that this meeting is going is happening tonight. I have already talked about, you know, the problems and I think they have been laid out very, very well. I'm also looking forward a lot to now hear more from people on the ground in Germany on, you know, their thoughts and their ideas about about all of this. I wanted to contribute something very shortly. I think the problems that we have been seen laid out now. There is one big, you know, thing that they haven't comment. And that is that they are transnational the problems are transnational and that's why we need to be working transnationally and that's what DM 25 is doing. And I think that's why we can really show an alternative to people on the ground and we are doing that we are working on the program with the German election wing. So if you're out there, or if you're part of this call and you want to get involved in program work, you can do so we have different working groups, I think Vincent will say something maybe about it later we have some people here that are doing this kind of work at the office and it's ongoing and we'll present an alternative for Germany. And we need to get organized so we need people on the ground, if you are in Castle, that's my kind of hometown, or you are in Berlin that's where I'm living, or you're somewhere else. You can contact us volunteer at dm25.org, or you want to help in national coordination. Please contact us, because we, we are getting organized and we are getting moving again, especially towards this end of the pandemic and mentioning it I'm very excited that I will meet DMS again on first of May, of course outside with distance, but it will be a start for something here in Berlin and we need to do that everywhere. And now I'm really excited to hear some, some more voices from Germany. Thanks Johannes so over to our grassroots members from Germany starting with Thomas. Hi everybody and greetings from Berlin, and from Lüchterfelde Süd so Janis will remember or walk through the neighborhood here. Some years ago, two years ago. I want to just mention three strings of crisis that we meet in Germany. And I'm very thankful for for his book of the apocalypse. We discusses the term crisis and crisis are crossroads. And what we have to take in these crossroads went to mention just three strings COVID-19 rent and climate change. So, let's start with COVID-19 in our neighborhood here. This third wave makes clear that it is a class war what's running. You see that schools are closed but factories are open. It's now become becoming clear by research from the Robert Koch Institute or for the University of Düsseldorf that the incidence of the epidemic is closely correlated to open production in factories. There's a clear correlation between your social deprivation and the incidence of the disease and also a correlation between the rent you have to spend for square meter and the incidence. So if you have a high rent, you're supposed to have a lot of space and money and there's a low incidence and the lower is the rent gets the higher the incidence. So there are statistics out there. And this is a real hint for the class war part of COVID-19. When I come to vaccines, you can see it's in the distribution of the vaccines. So in my neighborhood, we have these tower buildings, we have these elevators where you can't get off these aerosols which transmit the disease. And we are now discussing mobile teams which we use to do in nursing homes to go to these tower buildings to get the people vaccinated here. And if you think of the vaccines on an international scale, you will see the movements for free vaccines and the mis-distribution around the world. If we don't fight COVID globally, we won't succeed in any way. So, and when you think about the funding of the BioNTech or the Oxford vaccines, it was publicly funded, but all the rights, the property rights are still owned by these companies now, Pfizer and AstraZeneca. And here we come to a very crucial point and these are the property rights. I will come to these property rights later. So the next step is the rent. As you heard the rent cap in Berlin, it was a model I wrote an article two years ago for Diem and even the comrades in Barcelona were interested in this kind of rent cap. It was dismissed by formal aspect by our constitutional court and now we have the problem that all the rentors had to pay these debts till last Wednesday. But what is the problem with rent? You know, Janice, you signed the Deutsche Wohnen and Eignen campaign, which is running here in Berlin, and they have up to 130,000 votes until now and the limit is, the capture is 170 and they will manage to get this really done. But nobody is talking about, for example, a rent moratorium during COVID times. And there are now beginnings of aspects like a rentors union, model of London or Sweden, now also in Berlin. And when you have a rentors union, another kind of unit, rentors union, then you can think about renters strike, for example. But it comes down to another basic problem and the real problem is the land rights. And one of the majors, or mayors of Berlin and the leader of the SPD, Jochen Fugl, he had very fundamental thoughts about changing this land rights in cities. And that's a very crucial point. I come to it in the end of my talk. Let's switch to climate. And here's a citizens assembly just started in Germany, a real citizens assembly, 160 members, which is very interesting. And even the Potsdam Institute of Climate Impact Research, and especially Stefan Rammstock is giving talks for this citizens assembly randomly chosen. And we have to closely watch it, because since 2017 in Brussels, you remember, I'm a great fan of citizens assembly. It is a kind of a consultative which I consider to be a force power in the future constitution of the European Republic. So what we have to watch with the citizens assembly in Germany now going on is whether they have just recommendations, or if they are really empowered. Now, these were the three things I want to mention, but how to continue in Germany on the horizontal level. We have to restart our movement and I'm happy that Jonas and I made an invitation for next Saturday to meet in public in a park with all the considerations regarding the epidemic. And on the other hand, we need a vertical movement and this is our electoral wing. I'm proud to be part of. And two things that we discuss in this electoral wings is, for example, our program commission and very proud of being member of the task force for policy on a European citizens in the constituent process with Rosemary bachelor with Sam Hafton with Paul Walker and Michelle Fiorillo and to master vision. I think we have now the time to be a little bit of think tank, but we have to reactivate our movement. And as Mark said, it is not necessary that the thoughts come to the real life, but real life has come to our thoughts, and we have to be prepared to have the thoughts when they are asked for. And I think what we have to, and this is what I want to close with is that we have to need a new social contract for a constitution for an European Republic. Thank you. Thank you, Thomas. Just a reminder that we've got loads of people who want to speak so please keep your interventions to two or three minutes if you can. Thank you. Next is Vincent. Yeah, thanks. And I've heard many of the points I would like to raise already mentioned by previous speakers so I'll try to keep it brief. I would like to shift the focus a little bit to fiscal policy now. In recent polls for the elections in September we have seen an explosive rise of the Green Party in Germany as was already mentioned. They are even currently pulling ahead slightly of the governing Christian Democrats, which is the conservative party. And the Greens are quite likely to be part of the next German government. So obviously the Greens are a socially liberal party and maybe they're pro environment pro climate and so on, but what is their approach when it comes to fiscal policy and why does it matter. In their electoral program as Rihanna already talked about, they propose a meager 50 billion euros of net public investments annually over the next 10 years. And the social Democrats the SPD are talking similar numbers. Totally insufficient in pretty much all aspects from mitigating poverty and social inequality to fighting climate climate change and transforming the economy for carbon neutrality. If we wanted to spend just 5% of Germany's GDP, as suggested in our agreement for your proposal, and that's some the 15 billion euros would have to be at least three times as high. Moreover, the Greens do not question the flawed principle of the debt break which, you know, basically is austerity codified into the German constitution. As you've a pandemic, it is currently lifted, but as soon as the debt break, and by the way also the stability and growth pact of the European Union kicks back in in 2023 will be likely faced with another recession on a European scale. So here's what I think to make it short, Europe and Germany are in dire need of innovative progressive solutions to the accumulating problems of our time. And even just speaking from a purely programmatic perspective, right now I don't see any other political force to deliver these policies when DM 25, either our politics changes course drastically or we'll be looking into a very grim future. Thank you, Vincent, Teresa. Hello. So, I guess what we need to do in Germany is creating visible visibility, maybe being more present on demonstration printing flags, speaking in public. I think we need to change people's belief about, for example, government debts that they doesn't work like debt on by private personal companies. And also that putting an end to reliance on fossil fuels doesn't mean that it results in a massive job loss. Because I guess this is a bit the problem in Germany that a lot of people think that they will suffer from a climate change. And I guess shifting away from fossil fuels and investing in a green economy would create a lot of jobs. And for example, through raising energy efficiency standards and expanding the renewable energy supply could create a lot of jobs and I think we should try to make this more public. And another advantage of our party is that through the new jobs, we could also provide the workers better working conditions than they have now. I guess this is also a point that makes us different from other parties. And another thing I think is important that we should try to help communities that rely on the fossil fuel industry and maybe helping them to repurpose land. For example, in the German War Valley Valley, that is like a traditional home for coal, steel and chemical industries. It's a good example for repurposing land because there is the RAG AG, a German coal mining firm. And they are in process of converting its coal mine into a megawatt pumped storage hydroelectricity reservoir. And so the repurposed facility will act like a giant battery with enough capacity to power more than 400,000 homes. So I guess it would be important to emphasize why social justice and climate change can go hand in hand. And so I think it's also important that if we are raising carbon taxes or something like this, that we have to make sure that it doesn't affect low income households disproportionately. So we should maybe try to say, yes, we need a carbon tax and it's going to be more expensive to drive a car, but that's why we provide free public transport, for example. So I guess this is what I find really important. And maybe we should also try to say something about foreign policy as well, like nuclear sharing and stuff like this. Thank you, Theresa. Two comments from the chat in reaction to some of the interventions so far. Well said, the Greens are Austrian and hence imposters. And a question from Hoodie 02. How is the I'm going to raise awareness of change in a European society that cannot see beyond sports frenzy mass media and that is powerless in our current political system. Clements. Thank you. I don't know if I can answer to that. But maybe I really agree what Yana said in the beginning that Germany is one of the main battlegrounds for DM because it's such so important in also powerful in Europe. And I was wondering if this is true. Is there any hope for Europe, because Germany, I think is perceived as a very conservative country or many people are perceived as very conservative. And I just wanted to share a very brief story of hope. And so the other day I was in a park here in Berlin, collecting signatures for this movement that are this initiative that Thomas already talked about it's called Deutsche Wohnen and Eignen, which is an initiative which aims to expropriate Deutsche Wohnen, which is a huge company which buys thousands of housing apartments and then raises the rents in order to raise profits for their shareholders. So, on average, every person who is living in a Deutsche Wohnen apartment pays 170 euros each month, only in dividends for the shareholders from the rent. So now this movement is coming along and wants to expropriate all the apartments from Deutsche Wohnen and other huge companies, and they need to collect 170,000 signatures, they already have 130,000. So he was collecting signatures in this park. And then there were some people who are really really against it who got angry who said, Oh, this is socialism, I don't want this. And then there were other people who already heard about it and said, Oh, it's great and I already signed and good what you're doing. The vast majority of people either haven't heard about it, or they heard maybe the name but we're not exactly sure about what they wanted to do. So each time I talked to them and explained this is the problem. This is our plan. This is how it's going to work. And most people took like maybe a second maybe two seconds to think about this. And then they said, Okay, this is good. I will sign. And this really gives me hope because I mean this Berlin but I think it's this similar people all over Germany, who are really set up with many problems my mother works in the hospital. And she said, like, every year is getting worse and worse and worse. I have friend who is concerned about his retirement. And because he will get very very little money in his retirement and now he bought some stocks and he's left us and he said, I hate this things but I really don't have any, any alternative. I need to invest in my retirement. I think there's huge potential in Germany and maybe this is why what I wanted to say is, maybe, many people in Germany are not as conservative as they are perceived and media. So I really think there's hope. But I also agree that game 25 in Germany desperately needs to restart. And I can only repeat what Johannes said please write in. And if you haven't any role yet, and, and maybe say what you're doing what you would like to do. Whether you would like to work more on a local level or more on a national level. And, but I think there's hope. Thank you. Thank you comments. Adrian. Thank you. Facing this year's federal election, Germany will have a very special pre-election period this summer for at least two reasons. Angela Merkel, Chancellor of Germany for the past 16 years will not remain in office and the German Green Party has a realistic chance of appointing of appointing her successor. And as Juliana said, at first glance, this could seem like a positive step forward as it opens up the possibility to be governed by a somewhat leftist administration for the next few years what is indeed a rare event. But there's also a huge skepticism that this change won't be as radical as it has to be. Not only the past experience with the red green administration under Gerhard Schröder, but also the way in which the Green Party tries to bind the hope of the German use to them. Well, at the same time, avoiding the call for a system change makes me certain that they will not overcome neoliberalism, and that they will be opportunistic and compromise too much on the real important issues. And heard in the past actions and rhetoric is not an ambitious answer to the climate catastrophe, but a depoliticization of this topic. Let me explain what I mean and why I see no other movement than the M25 with its Green New Deal for Europe capable of the abstract, yet so urgently needed system change. I understand depoliticization as putting every problem in the individual sector, putting the private households in key positions to react to climate change and placing the fight for climate justice under the mechanisms of the market. With this strategy, the Green Party is able to keep the ideology of economic growth with a green face, putting the real causes of this catastrophe aside and failing to democratize industry infrastructure and society itself. They would only be able to fight against the climate catastrophe properly if they pursued a system change. By doing so, they are moving within the frame of what is possible in the in the consistent order. It's just management of social needs and not making things possible. Politics should set the frame in which things are possible debating what should be possible and what should be not and not accept accepting the constellation of global capitalism acting just within the range the system allows us to act within. And this process scares me because it's not because it's just a simple continuation of the same process of the last decades, because it's the alienation of the state from itself, the alienation of politics, the alienation of democracy itself. We're walking down a narrowing path in terms of what politics is able to do. Stuck in the ideology of capitalism, the fetish of growing economy, the lie of the triple down effect, the unbelievable huge gap between the infinite rich and the starring poor, and the fear of the middle class to descend into the letter while willingly protecting the former. And with that, this is the concealment of the class struggle. There is an enormous need for a progressive radical democracy here in Germany. There's so much need for a progressive radical democratic party. There's so much need for Dm 25. So let's fight because it is a fight for a democratic Europe and a democratic Germany. Thank you, Adrian a quick comment from the chat agreeing with our previous speaker Clemens you're right. Most people are on the right side of issues, but they keep voting for the wrong politicians well could argue that Dm should give people the right politicians. Also another comment saying that somebody saw in an email that gatherings in a DM mail out that our gatherings are beginning our people's gatherings this is good. We get off social media and do stuff together in person that's our citizens engagement project, people's gatherings literally just meetings organized by the 25 members to crowdsource basically our programs and discuss and answer the most pressing questions faced by our communities. Next speaker.