 You may recall the very first significant cross-racial appointment of an African American to predominantly Anglo-Church. Sure. Can you share with us about that a little bit? Well, yep. In the 1990s, in the early 90s. Yeah, it was early 90s because I was still fresh on the cap. I think there was a sense of which that it was time for us to try to make a step forward. And at the time, the church that was viewed as the church that was probably more open and more liberal at that time than any other place. And that this was the more likely place to make a change. And I think that that appointment became a little problematic early on. I think, namely because there were some misconceptions about whether being a liberal, a white liberal, accommodates cultural change from the other side. It's one thing to talk to talk. Yes. It's another thing to walk to walk. I think that a lot of learning took place in that because there was a place in a time where black pastors wanted to make sure that their blackness was not going to be in any way swept aside. That's because I'm in a predominantly white church. And I think in some ways we're still wrestling with some residues of that, whether or not the perceived liberals are as accommodating as one think they are on paper. It didn't work out very well. It didn't work out well. And I think to some extent, there were lessons learned from that, I think. There were lessons learned from that, that you can't just assume that what looks to be the case is the case. We got to do a lot more talking and a lot more serious conversation about whether this is really a good match.