 Good afternoon. I like a good evening. I like to call the Monday, August 1st, 2022 Town of Berlin Select Board meeting to order. With us on my right is Flo Smith. On my left is Carl Parton, Dave Sawyer. With us also is Vince Connie, Town Administrator Diane Isabel, Town Treasurer. Any changes or additions to the agenda? Oh, sir. Public comment. Hearing none. Planning Commission update and community development discussion, Carla? Hi. So, we met with a representative from our community on road development. Tom, are you there? Thank you. The last time was meeting and they do what they call the community development program. They work with the town. They do focus groups and they identify priorities. And so we had talked about this a couple of years ago and we didn't pursue it. And they only work with, I think, two towns a year. But it's, it's, it basically, you know, they do a lot of outreach to try to get people to come. They're pretty aggressive about it in terms of doing mailings. And so they try to ensure that everybody gets the work, gets the word. And it's one of the reasons I'm interested in it is because it's not focused on the town center. It's simply priorities, right? So, and they said sometimes towns, they do this and they find out that the priority don't align with what's happening or what, you know, the planning commission might be doing. But so it's very open and very, and so I'm really interested to hear what the residents will have to say. And I think it will be a good planning tool and it doesn't cost the town anything except for the mailing of the, the mailings and there's a meal that goes with it. So it'd be very cost-effective for the town and for the planning commission budget to cover the costs that we'll have to pay. And it's like a four to six months. I think it's a, Tom, are you there? Yeah, yeah, I'm here now. So was it like a six month process? I can't remember. It talks about. It's about a four month process, but they, they usually schedule like three of these community visits. Our likely visit would be somewhere in 12 to 18 months. But the, how the process works, we would fill out a very minor application. We would submit it to the Council of Rural Development. They would, they would peruse it, give a thumbs up, and then they would like to meet with the select board to go over this, the process of their visit in more detail. And I do have, they get, you know, they left this information, which I can leave with you. Oh, okay. And so, I mean, it's got a really diverse board of directors. The one thing that they did say is they're working with Northfield now. And they don't generally work with communities that are so close together, you know, so we probably would have to wait for 2023. It's supposed to getting picked this year. But even if it's, you know, a year, year and a half away, I think it's, it's a valuable tool. I think we should get on that list, basically. They said that the value of the services, I think was like $40,000. They bring in economic development experts throughout the state, and they bring a lot of pretty powerful commissioners from the governor's office, who have the ability to get things done and point communities in a proper direction to get things done. So I think it would be great just to have these, this expertise in a room and do some guidance with our community. And though they don't fund like the initiatives, they do help you. They point you in direction where you might be able to get funding based on what priorities are identified. So I just think it's a win-win because it really won't cost us much. And I think we can get a lot of value out of it. But it does have to be approved, obviously, by the slip. So you're saying that this would be funded through the monies and the zoning and planning? Yeah, we can cover the cost. The questions for Parola are tall. The other thing, the other positive thing is they said they do often get more people involved in town activities because they do try to get chairs. They pick the groups that work on different priorities that are identified. They try to get somebody that hasn't been involved. And so they said they have had really good luck getting new people involved in the initiatives and getting new people involved. Because it's usually something that they're passionate about, that they're really interested in. They'll get involved and let you stay involved. So I think that's a bonus too, because it's hard to get people to really pay attention and serve on some of these committees. So I think it's, I just think it's a positive thing to the town. Anything else on this? Your motion? I make the motion to approve the Vermont Council on World Development's BCRD community visit program as presented by Carla and Tom this evening. And our involvement will be the community meal and the mailed invitations. Second. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Both in carries. And I just also want to say we went to the downtown board today. Tom and I had to give them an update on what's happened with the new town center. Tom did a really good job concerning all the work that he's done, but the town's done. And they seem very, it wasn't a lot of comments, but I think they were pretty impressed by all the work that we've done since then. That's great. So, yeah, I think we showed them that we really are serious that we're going to do it the right way. So that was good too. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm out. Yeah, thank you. Good evening. Dodge farm road status and discussion. Yeah. We've got some representatives here attempt here. The initial inspection that we've done, they've done the work, a lot of the work up there. Comments on a couple of things still, but there seems to be maybe a couple of issues for discussion tonight as well. But you speak to it. Yeah. When they were, when my Donald was up there doing the work when they were getting close to being finished. When I just kind of looked at it a little bit, look pretty good, but it's hard to tell what everything's that fresh how things are going to. So, since then I've been out a few times. I just noticed that there's some places where it needs some more material. Still getting some erosion on the side of the road. It's where the water's not getting off the road and it's getting back into the road and then traveling down the road. Making some erosion. That's in the road. There's a few spots that need some more top cover. There's still some large stones that are still cannot. I mean, when the town does, does or if they accept it, you know, when we grade it, we're going to be pulling off those rocks and then that's, you know, it's got to have a cover on the road. And then I noticed you guys done some paper and paper on the bottom. And then I still am not sure with, I don't believe there was ever a clear line of end in beginning by your guys' driveway. I don't know exactly how far that road went out. So, the thing I notice now is it's like, since the pavement got done on your guys' driveway, it kind of comes out that this is where I'm not. So, clear on how far from the calder side out to you guys, the town is going to accept and maintain that deal. But like, the driveway got to quite far out into the road, so it turned to go toward the well field. The corner of the black top is out, far enough where we were to plow up in there. We're going to catch the edge of the driveway and then it would be very difficult to, the way it is shaped and paved now. It would be very, very, very difficult to grade up to that. And then it's, we, and then again, on the town side of things, we do not try to go in any, we don't try to turn around or try to drive across any residential asphalt because of building. So, as to the grader, when it articulates or whatever, it will tear asphalt up pretty good, especially being fresh or, or thin. Like, when we pave a road, the pavements usually almost four and a half inches thick, I don't know how thick the driveway was. They're supposed to be two inch compacted. I don't know how to make it mine, but I've got a lot of six inch pavements. So, one of your talking about is the point closest to the road? Yes. And that's where I say it, like I don't know how far the town's going to accept or who's right away that is, if it's the town's right away. So, I don't know, definitely have to look at doing something, something different's going to have to happen right there in that area with the way that they raise the road and contour it and keep the majority of the water to the right hand side as you're traveling up the road. And then I know when I, and it's nothing to you guys and I don't know anybody really, but I think it's Comcast is that the barrier cable goes through there. If it's a little bit on the edge of the road, it's not more than a state shuttle. And the other reason why it's nice to get some cover over that. So, we ever have to maintain it at some point as well as ditching. And whatnot. That cables. Most barrier cables supposed to be 18 inches deep, but I know that they did say that they were running into a lot of, like, Donald said they were running into a lot of ledge and places up through there. And it's like anywhere else in the world that might be because they can get the cable. But I don't think it's, it's not like some way of widening the water. It's at least 12 inches of water. Stone. Well, mentioned the fire stones are really fun. And they're supposed to use three inch sunscreen. When they do that, because I know the edges are all. What I would believe would be three inch sunscreen. Right. They must use the fabric or it looks like the last two feet of the road is like three inch sunscreen more it's a little bit of top dress over. You can see there's like larger stones that are sticking up zero and on the edge of the road. We grade that. That stuff don't pull right out. We all in the road. Could I interject a quick question could could you introduce yourselves Tim's talking. Mostly to the people maybe watching or. I know both of you but some people might not. So that's where you go up in there. And they've got like the circular part right there. Is that going to remain like that. Because they asked. That's getting taken out. The inner part is gone. Now it is just a big round. And then you've got the drives that go up to three lots on the right hand side. Where you're not that's not a part of what they want accepted. A lot of the time. So it go up through past that circle area to the to the well house. Yeah. So it only goes to the top of the sack and then it's. Water water water works play is. Short. Yeah. So basically you'd be going up to your driveway up to that point there. Because then it does go past that. So we go up. Yeah. So you're not. You're not going. It's really dodge. It's really dodge. I mean, what works for you starts at the bottom house. The only the only math about it. It's just one. Just to. So there's two roles that technically are going to be. Now. It concerns with that second turn. That goes to the left. Coming back out. You know if you're coming down the short turn. At the very bottom. Not at the very bottom, but it's just personnel from the right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we had some discussion about it. It wasn't. I mean. It's not. It's not the most. The way it's slope. It seems like if we could have problems with the truck. Right there. Because I'm up there building right now. That's why I have. Coming down out of there. I see. No, it is. Yeah. I mean, it's. It's already has been a problem as far as people stayed on. Yeah. That's shot. I know. You had some guidelines. Originally. Your site distance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Your original road. I don't know why it just didn't go straight down. Yeah. I was looking at that. I just coming down out of there. It seems like if we got a. It's. A little slick. It could have issues there to throw notes. Definitely. By the person. The only other thing is that I would have or not. My question is, is it took that over the town and down the road. If they wanted that paved up there, would they be sharing costs of paving. Of that. The HOA or. At some point I can feel a few years down the road that they're going to. You don't want to see that page. So. You're bringing that up. I know. Those research and whatnot. Every road. I do not know the exact dates. But it's been a while that the town has accepted in the housing development like that. Park Inspire and Plateau Drive. All then down there. Applewood. So here. They've all been required. Paid the road for the town is accepted. Wanted cuts down extremely on the town side of maintenance thing. So when we accept it, we normally just have to. Plow with the salt that. And do some light maintenance. And then. We're going to have to. We're going to have to. We're going to have to. We're going to have to. Low traffic roads like that. You know what I mean? You're looking 20 years 25 years. Before you have to start thinking about. What are you waiting for? Yeah. Where gravel road. It's. The year. It's money in the spring down. We'll put gravel into it. I mean, then we're back up there. We're going to have to keep ditching it. We're going to have to get your sand run off. Or just regular dirt run off. The ditch is filled up. We can keep filling it. So. That. That was discussed early on. So. But yeah, the town has, you know, all the other developments involved. They were required to be paid before. The agreement for the town accepted. I guess that was, I guess my question was, is if it, if it was that he was going to get paid in the future, if the HOA was going to. Chip in or. You know, if they've made any concessions to think about paving that down the road. If the town accepted it. Yes. My response to that is. Well, then I guess at that point it'd be. Stay, stay a gravel road. At that point and just be great. You know, but I could see is, as. Time goes on that. People in the HOA is probably going to want to. Have it paid. That was discussed before we. There were some for some against. I haven't brought the price line here to do it. Just one thing I want to point out. For everybody. So it's clear as well. In our acceptance policy. Right. Under, under acceptance and section 12. Seek the copy of this early on as well. When the road been completed and inspected. The town can begin all maintenance for 12 months. So there's a year. After 12 months of maintenance, there's no serious defects that have been observed. The deed will then be recorded. Then the moment you come into town highway. According to some of the provisions. The statute. Right. During the 12 month initial acceptance period. Any flaws or defects which are pointed out to develop our owner. Will be their responsibility to correct. During this period of tele-order and. Correct any of the necessary signs as well. For that. Period. So again, just so everybody's aware. Even when the board accepts it. There's a year. Both five. Before it's fully recorded. To make sure it goes through all the cycles of the seasons. And. Anything that pops up. You know, It's still responsibility of the homeowners for that first year. To take care. So. Yeah. This is the case. Right now. Right now. I think. Right now. Right now. Right now. Well, he's got some concerns now. There might be some concerns. There might be some concerns during this. Period. Or just being concerned. I'm not going to start out. I'm sure. I'd like to know that, you know, you got an engineer studying. Over a big time. In that study. We were looking at 50 yards of ground. We're 600 feet. Grading. That was. Outstands. A. 76. And B. 71. Or the law works way. Just doing that. 50 yards. It was 350 yards. So. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. 50 yards. We was 300. 40 thousand dollars. Boss. I. It's like. It's fine. See what happens. In the one year period. The other thing. Is the town. Is using this. I mean. You're part of the association. and you're using it, but we've got you in the store. Got you to help retain it, get to the other times. And, you know, we just built nine houses that had it to the grand list. It's got to be several million dollars in the whole yard, the yard tax payers. So to add to that, she is right. We do use the road, but it was before my time, the agreement was, was the town plows and sands the road all through the winter months as their contribution. And I could be wrong with that, but that's not sure. But the town was contributed to the plowing and sanding of the whole road during the winter months for the usage to get to the wealth good. That is the agreement. They're listed as the town is listed as a percentage contributor to the U.K.O. So right now, the big concern is the way the water is not running off the road. It's not crowned enough or it's like the corners that they was just talking about. They're still holding water. And I don't know if that, but around the other corner, there's a 20, I didn't measure 20, 30 foot section where it's started into being three inches deep where the water is staying on the road and scouring the road and then eventually finding its way off but it's already started to pull gravel off into the grass. We talked about that. Eric Boyden, you remember we were going to stare at that right side going up so that we didn't have all the water going across the road to the east side of the road. Yeah. So that's what we've done. But it's still staying up on the side. It's not getting off the road, sir. And that's what I'm saying. There's no runoff at that point. Larry? No, there is, where it is, is there it is. But there's a firm grass along the edge of the road up through there. But what you can see happening is in the winter, that water, the way that's going to come down to it's just going to make a sheet of ice. So with that road pitch into the right around that curve. They've already had, you know, in the wintertime, they've already had numerous vehicles off that side. And I can see it happening. I don't know. So you make the first corner come down and that takes the laugh off. They go straight down to the field, over the snow back. Here, there's probably some speed involved because, you know, that's made for any of you guys headway out into the snow, but. Other than the water setting on the road there, I'm trying to visualize this. I have it up there for some time. So the water comes down and is it a low spot in the road? The way the road is that you're coming down and it starts to curve to the right. It's like that the water is shedding and can run into the right, but it's not. It's hard. It's a different setup to be able to get it. Yeah. That style of road, the layout of the road is hard to keep. You crown and take a corner and keep it somewhat level so it's not a real environment. And then I see what you were saying is up past that cul-de-sac and that, well, even before that, it's like it was still, you know, big stone because you can see, you start to grade that. It's just going to. Now, isn't just big stone or is it ledge? No, it's just, yeah, they're big, like cobbles. Yeah. So like they're building a base and they didn't get the finished material up all the way. Yes, I haven't seen this. You know, to the paving aspect of it was, it was brought up early and originally and then I think it's kind of, I don't know where that's all gone. But like, I had to look back at the meeting but I believe that the previous four voted that only paid like $50 to $75. I think it was, yeah, just the end apron. Yep. I remember the vote on that. Yep. So as you come off the apron, you're heading up the hill, the first corners to the left, right? Go to the right and then we'll go to the left. And it's where you make that left that you just start to go up. You'll see where the water is. It's the transition. You go off the apron and then you start to beard to the left and you go right and then you go back to the left. It's a little snake. Yeah. Last level, you're approaching Larry Stridewood rather than grade that straight grade. Yeah. No, no, no. 24p. We had this hybrid peak and nothing set or maybe there. We might have like 18p on that side and the other 12p. It's kind of, it is kind of shallow a little bit. There's really no place to put it. You try to keep not all that water across. Coming down across that section. Now on the uphill side of that, is there any ditching or is it just flat? All ditched. Yeah. There's, well, the small ditch because it's flanged. So they really couldn't get. Any depth to it. They couldn't get any depth out of it. And the only trouble you're seeing is in the winter with the icing. So it will be worse. It's not creating, it's always going to be a problem. And it's nothing to the people that live there now as far as like the shape of the road. Like the original design of the road should not have had two best winter backs. And it just went straight from the turn cut. The Larry's house, Larry's house, like straight up through and that's it. Yeah, I don't know. And the only thing I can see now as far as like looking back and kind of lay at the land is probably the amount of fill that they would have to, because it drops off a little bit into that sang. It looks like to be where the driveway is, be it more follow the way of the land. So they wouldn't have to put so much fill in and make a straight approach. They weren't scared people would go in. No, that's the thing. Like I don't really, let's walk out of it. Where the design of the road, I don't know why it had a few switchbacks. But it didn't. So that's going to create a washboard. And it does, it gets washboarded, drop up to a few thin bars. How steep is it up in there? The beginning of it is, I couldn't put a percentage so much on it. I don't know if you've got a guess. They, I, They go all the way at eight percent. Wasn't that hell. And then it kind of flattens out as you get up in there and still went uphill climb, but it's definitely not as bad as it is to get to the Larry salaries. Is there any maintenance technique or drainage or culvert that could be put to get rid of that standing water? It sounds like that's going to be a maintenance. It's not just standing water, and they can't get the water. The road needs to be higher than the grass area. So the grass is the low, the low end. So that's where the water goes. It's not as much. It stays on the road and then runs down the quarter. And then when it gets back the other way, that's when the water comes out. It must be that the ledge is pretty close to the surface right there without any, you know? Yeah, about digging around to be able to dig it deep into there. I've done a lot. Do you know from where you've got to go way down? I think I've done a lot. Well, they opened up the trench across and it was wedged even over the road, but it wasn't at surface. Yeah. So if the town's doing the plowing and the salting now and we take it over, it's just the grading and the gravel and stuff to ditch it. To ditch it when it's time. Do you guys know if there was any maintenance done? I don't think prior to this time, as far as what it established, I think it's been here for about 10 years or maybe better and we know that it's been touched a little bit greater. It really wasn't that bad, but of course it didn't be as much bad as it is today. You know, until two years ago there was only two houses up there. So where is this water coming from? Rain. Rain just run off through the grass. See now all the houses are on the high side of the road. So everything is kind of, you know what I mean? When you build, change the lay of the land, you turn to run off more, you know what I mean? People are ditched their driveways. So now if third house up, you know what I mean? Their driveway goes up across. So now instead of, you know, just guessing and speculating, you know, the water comes out. So that hill hits their driveway. Now it runs outside of their driveway and goes to the road versus before there probably was anything there. Probably just slowly leached its way down through the field. When you start building and doing construction, you gather water, you turn water, you point water in certain directions. It's like the one I'm on now, before they did it, I walked it and what had happened was from the woods line, it came down and from the road you kind of like was raised. So there was a swell behind it that followed the woods down. Well, now it comes down, there's not a swell. Oh, there is a little one, but then it directs, it's directing it now towards the road. It's not where it naturally went down to because they dug to put the foundations and stuff in and now they more or less level it out. And I'm curious when they do the mountain system over there, if it's going to create even more of a, you know, it's going to direct more towards the road area, I think. So is there any way to mitigate the water moving to the road? Oh, there's ways. Yeah, it's eventually all the way up through on that side. You know, that's what it's for, I guess, that water. But it holds the water all the way down to those corners. Yeah, pretty much. People get it. There's two cross culverts. There's two cross culverts. So it does take some of the water down. What does get to the road with sound? So there's no real easy way to mitigate that last little bit of water that's giving you the trouble. To raise the road some. The ideal would be that that's not going to happen. I'm not sure about it. This is to straighten the road. But that's, you know, I mean, that ship sailed long time ago. But is there any way to put a basin in and cover another culvert down like just before that? I mean, I don't know how deep it is right there. Just wondering. And the corner. Yeah, just before you hit that last call, you know, before you hit that where it gets bad. There's a cross first cross pipe is up above the, you've probably seen the ledge. Yeah. The last. Cross bike coming down the hell is. Right. All the grass on the left. It's just up above there. There's one that layers driveway also. Yeah. Yeah. So the other one. So it's three and above the corner. And then. And then one of the problems. I took some pictures over the concrete pictures. But just above Larry's driveway. Is. I think we're some of them. Some of it might be coming from this is just not. Point enough. Where it sheds. Before it gets to the corner. The day I looked at it. It was coming almost to Larry's driveway. And then it was leading across the road. And then. On the other side of the driveway. Where. There's the really turn. Is where the wash is. And then it comes down and then the road pitches back. The water goes down the. And it's washing gravel off the grass. And then. Have you come down and banks again. To turn back to the apron. There's more. There's a wash started on the inside of that. Like. I mean it's where it's like our practices go. And we try to keep the roads higher than the lawns. Some of it's. Difficult because of the lay of the land and whatnot. But. The road needs to be higher than the lawn. The lawns or what. Except the water where there's not a ditch. I mean that's why we go through. We buy almost. 8,000 tons. Record gravel. Every year. Part of the soil. If you go through the. Files on this God. So. You go through 8,000. That's just three quarter. That's not even. Half that we use in the spiritual. And mud and everything else. So. Down goes through. Substantial amount of gravel. Trying to keep roads crowned. And the water gets off. Because the thing with lawns is sod makes sod, you know, that's good. There's no way you can take a ditch on the top side. It's too shallow. I don't know. I don't think anybody's ever done any sort or as far as like putting a ditch on that side of the corner. So I see three kind of options here. We can either approve the town taking it over deny the town taking it over. Or perhaps a third option would be to delay until we see probably the worst worst case scenario is spring spring runoff I would guess as far as the washout delay to see what the spring washout does and then even then we could make a decision there a little more educated about what's going to happen with the watershed and and start the 12 months in in May. The 12 month period so those are probably are three options right now we're kind of getting to the details of designing which probably isn't our job right so. Yeah, we've been up to see the driven by it but I haven't thought of looking at it that closely. I stayed on the road I know and I went there in the winter so. Well, can we hold this next meeting. Because it's just a discussion is not a decision. Then we can each go up and take a look. Because quite frankly, I'm a little lost here. It's supposed to rain tomorrow so we'd have a good look at where the water goes. Farms already. It's good as any other. Say that better. So we'll put out the agenda for the next meeting again. Just a silly question. We want to start the meeting up there. So it is that before we do say that. And back here. Think that's the next one idea. We're going to start with the site. Anything else on this murder. It deals Tim. You'll be there of course. Thank you all. Yeah, thank you all for coming in and discussing this. Board approval decision on private road named founders way. Yes. Thank you. Yeah, there's a private road. There's a, there's a little. From the back page. Basically a little more trailer. Right across from a little early over here. Now that they have four units on it. It's considered a private road and have to have an aid. Okay. Okay. I think that runs through 911 and. Founders way is what's come up as they recommended. Okay. As well. Just get the. For that. I make a motion to. Name this subdivision road. Private road founders way. Second. Okay. Okay. Okay. Thank you. All in favor. Those opposed. Motion carries. Um. I could charm stormwater update and discussion. So quick one from my side. I did get another note. Back from. For self. Regarding the cost. He had to correct himself. He said there was no cost. No cost. No cost. No cost. No cost. No cost. No cost. So basically $160 an acre. For the impervious service. So I need to calculate what that means for us. For the town roads. That we own in there. So if there's if there's two acres of town road. We're going to own all $320 towards that. For the design. For the. That portion of the. The annual operating fee. For that permit. No cost. No cost. No cost. No cost. No cost. No cost. No cost. No cost. No cost. No cost. Well I discovered again what I've been told. Obviously it's correct that we need to be a co-outlook it on that. We have the opportunity it looks like. To. We wanted to participate. From a cost perspective through the planning portion of it. It was extinct. They're cold. Back to the door between 18 and 19,000. As the town. We can apply for that. So, we would basically pay for the planning portion of their development of that stormwater system. That was through our fund money. No, it's a different one. Okay, they had one that the deadline was just last week. Yeah, that was like that was a different one. Yeah. Okay. So we can potentially qualify for that. It's for that little bit more. But that way we'd be contributing to that. And again, I can't find anything that says that we're obligated to pay for the building portion of that stormwater runoff. Pay for the, we participate in the permitting to pay our whatever acreage coverage we have about for that permit. The rest of it is really on the whole association. So that we could participate through the planning grant. Cool. That's my update on that. I'll continue to look forward to the details. But yes, if I had to make a recommendation, I said, I would say good faith. We can get, we can get the 100% coverage for the planning. That would be our contribution and then going forward and just pay the yearly permit costs 160 per acre. That's just for our pension of it. Correct. So well, the road coverage is acres-wise is what we would pay for. It doesn't come up to three acres. I got to calculate it. I haven't made the roads yet to see what that comes up to be. But I'm just wondering if the impervious pile of road would be, if the total was under three, we would have to have a stormwater permit, would we? Yeah, that's the whole, because it's combined with the whole area. It's almost, I think, 10 acres where we have to be included according to what you see us tell us. So, you're out of blank here, but what you just said is that we, that we could participate through the, through a grant process for the funding and permit. For the planning purposes of the stormwater system, right off design. Okay. For the design. We have to pay the regular fees as part of the permitting, the permit process, regular basis yearly, I think, right for that permit, for that waste of stormwater runoff, which is $160 an acre, whatever that is. But again, in the bigger scheme of things, I think the homeowners association there were looking for us to participate in the building of the building and probably maintenance as well. Which, you know, there's nothing tie us to that, that I've seen it this far. That's why I was just sitting there trying to think of how to make the motion. What you, what you just explained to us without getting sent to have a quick question before you do. Yeah, I don't think I was going to take it. I'm a little curious. This is obviously, there's a contractor that's doing their planning and designing. We are, we weren't involved and and choosing that contractor we were there wasn't a big process. So we're just coming in and taking whatever they give us for a dollar amount and a figure to do this work. Is that all right. I don't like it. We can get the planning, planning part of it done for no cost to a grant. There's still a cost. It's not directly out of our time budget. We're still paying it. We're spreading out a little bit. Well, actually, it's just for discussion tonight. Make a decision. I want to get a little bit more. Well, that's why I'm trying to think and because I don't want to put myself, I don't want to make a motion that ties us into something down the road. That's right. That's why I'm trying to help you because I agree on what you're, yeah. I'll let you explain. Given we're at a premature stage. Yeah. Yeah, okay. This is that some more groundwork. Yeah, good. And I wasn't quite clear about you're pretty sure that they won't try to also have us contribute to the maintenance. They want us to contribute to the construction. I think they want us to participate in the construction and probably the maintenance of it as well, which I don't think is a good idea. Yeah, I don't think that we can be tied to it. I remember when this thing first came out and the state identified those areas and they came out with that program. Whoever it was, it was right. The thing is that we could partner with the town. Same thing with Western trailer part. We could do the design and the build of it. And I'm saying, why would the town get involved? They don't own the roads. They don't own any of them over there. That's the problem with it. And it was somebody that wrote now, exactly. We own the roads here, but I still don't feel. Yeah, I still don't feel that we're obligated by the town to do that. I said the events earlier, like I'm not sure where I understand like what they're trying to do. But as far as like our side of things, it all comes to the ditch. There is all kind of run to the bottom of the hill on separate angles to collect one ditch. Because there's one culvert. Because we had this discussion a few months ago or a month ago on the topic. And I haven't checked it since there is one, it all comes to one. There's one culvert that crosses our road at the railroad tracks at the bottom of the hill. And then it crosses underneath the railroad tracks and then it runs into a wall. It goes all the way down the side of the railroad tracks behind the trailer part where capital city used to park our cars. So it's not like it directly dumps straight to the river. It's not a stormwater system that has pipes that pick up all water and take it right to the river. So it does have like a sediment runout area through that ditch. Through the ditch now and it's a fairly sizable ditch. Well, I'll tell you just the numbers that I'm hearing for the trailer park and some others that I've been involved in. It's big money. It's not they to have basically they're calling it a rain garden. So it's just catching. That's the new name for it all. Yeah, rain garden. What is that project that we did last fall on the other end of crosstown. We had to do two retention ponds for our stormwater project. To slow the water and then give it a chance for the sediment to drop out. Before it ventured on down its way. We'll be seeing this again in the very near future if I'm sure. Anything else on this. If not approval licenses permits vouchers applications. I want to make a motion for the approval of licenses permits vouchers and applications as follows payroll warrant 23 dash oh three for payroll from July 17 to July 30 2022 to be paid on August 3 of this year in the amount of 41,962 dollars and 81 cents. Payable warrant 23 G03 with checks 22173 to 22192 for payables in the amount of 103,857 dollars and 60 cents and the June general journal entries as well. Second levels. Yeah, I guess I have a couple of questions. I think this is in the right spot. So I was just taking a look at a few items and I could ask these anytime I suppose behind the scenes, but I'm just curious the payment to central Vermont regional planning commission. Is that a yearly payment 3800 roughly. Yep. Also just curious about. The police over time. And I was, and I, and I don't have the old ones to compare but if now that we're at full strength on the force if overtime is being reduced. We're not actually full strength we do have one of our people out in operation. I know we had a couple. I didn't notice this payroll was reduced a little bit. Yeah. So we, we had a game of two and a loss of one basically the two back from the Academy. And a new hire, right. And then the new hire, one of them has to have another officer be with him for a certain period of time. So there's no time. So the other thing, and this, this may just be something in the contract that I could probably look at myself, but it looked like we had 10 hours personal use for the police and then over time. And that same 40 hour span so I got overtime over and above personal hours is that how the contract reads, they can do that. Yeah, we saw because you know when they're called out or whatever they have to be there. Okay. And the final thing I looked at the laptop purchase how many laptops did we get for the 29,000. That's laptops and document stations. I believe it was 10 times. Okay. Is that does that come with any service service and software. I believe there's three years. And I be tech will be setting those all. That will be addition. Be tech will be in addition. And we'll also have to have additional software. Again, what are the tech is recommending is office 365 or each for the workstations that require it, rather than a server. 365 that we have now because we basically share it and a slow system as well. Anything else on this. All those in favor. Hi. Motion carries. Roundtable Carl. That's my attention and, you know, I think. Voting integrity and voter confidence in our elections is something that is very important to me. That, as I mentioned, we do the whole state purchased new electronic voting systems. It wasn't announced by the secretary of state. It was kind of a quiet purchase of a company associated with dominion who may or may not have new stories written about them. Positive and negative over the past few years. And just recently, every new voting system had to send back their programmable chips to be reprogrammed because there was an error. So I just want that with that in mind. I'm going to again plant the seed that I think it's very important that for the first general election. And I'm going to document a letter and I'm going to send it to neighboring towns and communities as well. But on the first general election. It's important for us to do at least a spot. Hand count to ensure the quality of the count made by the brand new machines. I don't think that's showing distrust or disrespect, but trust and verify. And voters should be able to know that we can have confidence in our elections. We can do it on a small scale in our town. We can't do it for the whole state or the whole country, but rural inners can know that when they cast their ballot, it was counted properly. And it wouldn't take much. You know, we just maybe take one contested race. That's that's pretty close. And just, you know, a group of election officials sits down and hand counts that one race and so we know, know they work the way they're supposed to work. And I can tell you that's a secretary of state's office in the last election did they do they do an audit. They take the electronic vote count from five towns that they choose or maybe six times they choose randomly, or they choose privately not randomly, and one hand counted. They take those machine scan ballots, and they machine scan them with an outside vendor. But the outside vendor, in this last election, had six months of published data. They everybody knew what the number was supposed to be. And I'm not saying again casting any aspersions, but that's just a machine checking machine. So I think a hand count on in November would be worthwhile. In September, or August. Yeah, it's not going to be that big. I mean, I'm not for seeing a big turnout. And it'd be a lot easier to do the chat on that election. I prefer a general election. And they might be programmed, again, between August and November. But that will have to be put there yet. So that's why that's what all the agenda. I think if we need to, I guess, if you want to put on it, then yes, yes, I do. Dave, I'm just done this, accepting this town roads and stuff. I'm going through my head and why, why all these other developments we've required them to have paving. Cut down on the mainets and how this kind of skated by and not. I remember hearing about it, I remember both not it when we talked about the paving down the end, but the more and more I see that up there. I'm a lot less comfortable with it not being paid. That's just my opinion. You guys make that decision. Get up there and sweet. I think it's great that we're going to be doing the site visit, be able to see firsthand and appreciate everything you brought forward Tim so that we can mull it over. Hello. Yes, I wanted to add that the Berlin volunteer fire department on August 13 is going to have a recruitment open house. And they are offering folks to come for welcome participation. There will be some trainings and onsite activities. And so they wish for anyone in the town interested in participating and it will be from 10am to 2pm. Again, it's an open house specifically for recruitment. And all are welcome. And that's on August 13th at the four corner station. Just on that Joe called me and I'll just be here tonight. I didn't think he'd be able to make it, but he wanted me to extend an invitation to support pop in sometime during those hours. It's wonderful to say hi and. That's great. It would be good. So I've extended the invitation. Thank you. That's great. Just just a point. No, there is a an email in there that I received last week. 28th from our neighbor at the end of the street. Talking about the use of the over our contractors parking in their job drillers again. Not happy with that. He thinks they should be up in the industrial park and not sitting out here. So, yeah, the letters in there. You think it's just because you don't like seeing the equipment drive by. And he's very clear about that. That's exactly why he does not like the traffic by his house. Right up front about that's the reason. I think that equipment's been there a lot going through there a lot longer needs been there. So, you know, I'm not, I'm not trying to be less sympathetic, but, you know, at some point. You know, buy a house there railroad station if you don't want to hear the train come to, you know, but I also see the other side of it that if, if we're parking equipment there there ought to be some give and take with those companies. I think doing something for us. Yeah, he gets some benefits. And let's speak partner last year he got the use of a tractor free for a long time. She gets the use of the tractor is a little bit. Winters that they've helped us out. Yeah, that's like, when we did the trip to the parking lot on Irish Hill, they gave us a lot of material. Yeah. So there is some of that going on. So I think that's how I'd respond to him. I mean, personally, is that we do get benefit. Maybe it'll see a direct dollar amount. Well, he has, I have mentioned a couple of things about what are set like this as well. Yeah. Again, his main concern is the traffic by his, his bill. Yeah, the increase in it. So the letters in there. Yeah, take a look and want me to put some sort of see you together that we suggest here or whatever. Anything on executive session. No. Sure. Okay. I'm going to entertain a motion to adjourn. Make a motion to adjourn. All in favor. Well, I'm curious.