 We're gonna talk about Johnny Depp and Amber Heard. This is part five. Greg, why don't you tell us about the videos you're gonna watch? Yeah, this is the remainder of the video. This is direct and cross and redirect in the defense side for Heard and for Depp. And there's a lot in here and we'll talk about how they're trying to impact the jury and how they're prepared. Amber, other than the threats that you've described, what other threats have you endured since the Depp Waldman statements were made? I receive hundreds of death threats regularly, if not daily. Thousands since this trial has started people mocking. Mocking my testimony about being assaulted. Abjection relevance, non-responsive. Thanks for the damages. You can continue. It's been agonizing. It's painful. And it was humiliating. I've never had to go through. I've never had to go through something like this. To want Johnny to leave me alone. I just wanted him to leave me alone. I've said that for years now. And I thought he would after 2020. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, so we will use occasionally on this show a lot of jargon. So we're gonna be careful not to use a lot of jargon to unpack some of the dense concepts that we talk about. But in this one, we don't need a lot of jargon. I'm gonna tell you that her head is like it's on a switch. And she's got a little limit switch right here. And when she looks at the jury, her face changes from what it is when she's looking at the attorney. So we'll call that a swivel switch. Just my own made-up word. As she does that, she's changed her face. That's okay, except. Remember, people who are in the jury are human beings. And those people in the jury may come from a different culture where too much eye contact is bad. They may come from a culture where too much eye contact means something. They may also have trigger points that when you look at them with an angry face, it makes them feel something. If I were coaching her, I would say, hey, that's a little bit over the top right there. When you look over there and you start making all those mean faces, what if that person over there has had an experience that you're triggering? And I'll give you before we end this one of my favorite ever stories I've heard about body language from an attorney when they learned that I was doing this. So she needs to be more cautious with that heart eye contact. Now, you guys remember, there used to be like a litter, a cat litter commercial on TV for, I think it was tidy cats called stank face. You remember that when people walk in the room and their face would go, well, she's doing some of that, which is a little bit over the top. And it would be funny if it were not for the fact that that happens when her feelings are hurt more than when it's about her being threatened. Her words trail, she kind of runs way back. So numbered hundreds regularly, if not daily, hundreds with no emotion. I receive hundreds of death threats regularly, if not daily. But when she starts talking about mocking is when she gets that little stank face thing going on. And her whole emotional demeanor changes. She rubs her legs and there's too much emotion in the wrong places for me. Chase, what do you got? Yep, I agree with you. Right at that question. What threats have you endured? The attorney asked her this question and then it's business like emotional. There's this large inhale turns the jury and instantaneously starts with this face wrenching again, like you talked about stank face to get into an emotional state. And this rapid shifting of facial expressions is not truthful. If this is peer reviewed, this is well reviewed in multiple studies. And it's very strange. We don't see this very often, but she says mocking three times. And my testimony about being assaulted and not mocking her abuse, not mocking her suffering, not mocking her life, but they're mocking the testimony, not the fact that she was abused. They're mocking the testimony, which is a interesting point to make here. I'm not saying there's some deception here, but that's a definite huge red flag. There's a discussed facial expression in her trial baseline in general. She makes this kind of discussed facial expression. And if you imagine smelling, sticking your nose into a rotten gallon of milk and sticking your nose down there, it makes everything in your face kind of go towards the middle. And that's what we're seeing here. This whole thing she's selling and not telling. She's checking the responsiveness of the jurors. One, two, three, just kind of scanning around the jury pool. What to be a deeply internal experience of discussing her suffering. She's checking to make sure that she's touching base with each person when she should be emotional. And emotions don't happen when she's processing the questions. They happen when she's looking at the jury. This is a big deal. And when she says, I want Johnny to leave me alone. This was the entire case against her is him trying to get her to do the exact same thing. So it's strange. But I want you to watch one point during this. That's really special to me. When Camille, which is a depth attorney objects, the facial expression to the jury disappears and she's back to holding it off. Just to look at Camille, just to look at that one person who's objecting. So the instant all the suffering just vanishes and she gets cold and calculating just to look back to me. Pretty strange. Scott, what do you think? All right. Can I have one first? Guys, this is our opinion. And we want you to remember that as you go through this video. All of it. Oh, yeah. And remember, we know people go through stuff much worse than this. We understand that. We really get it. We know people go through some horrendous things that we'll never hear about and that you'll never hear about. So we've taken that into consideration. We're talking about this one person and our opinions. And that's all it is of this one person's behavior that we're seeing. All right. And Johnny Depp. I guess two different people. So, all right. So after Camille says the threats that you describe, her eyes are wide. They're wide open. And the only blink in we see is when we see that eye flutter, that eyelid flutter right after that. And there's another pause where her eyes are locked in on her and then she just keeps looking at her. And after that, the lawyer says, non-responsive, we see 18 expressions of contempt, disgust, anger, scorn, sadness, all these and a lot. And all together there are 26, but 18 of those are micro expressions, which go out from micro expression to a big expression. Again, like James was saying, these things don't morph from one to the other. They just click like she's clicking a dial to show these different expressions. That's not real. That's not right. That's acting. I'll say it's not acting very well. How does that sound? So then at the same time, we're not seeing any tears. All this time she's supposed to be so upset and all this stuff is happening and her voice doesn't crack. When you're that upset, when you're talking about things like that and you're upset, your vocal cords, your larynx will start, or the muscles around it will start contracting. There's none of that. Her voice is almost smooth as she's going through this. It doesn't crack. It's clean. It's clear. That's just really unusual for situations like this. Then when she says you can continue, it's again odd placements of these expressions. They'll start before they're supposed to and as she's talking, they'll just fly in there and fly out. They're odd. They're not timed correctly. That's an odd way to say that, but that's the only way I know how to put it. But watch for those 26 different expressions in there how they click from one to the other, just one, two, three, four, five, and you can count them as you go through. You might see the micro expressions if you look really tight, but you'll definitely see the bigger expressions that they morph and they don't morph into, but they click into. And then before she says, I just want Johnny to leave me alone. She goes, oh, oh, like this. And the reason it looks so weird and it gives you such an icky feeling is because she can't pull off those emotions she's supposed to have that she's trying to sell. I just want Johnny to leave me alone. She's trying to work herself up and fire herself up to go into this deep emotion thinking when she says, I just want Johnny to leave me alone. It just, it doesn't work because it's so fake. And look, that's why you get that feeling and everybody watching this, oh, that's horrible because it's fake and she can't get up enough emotion to pull that off. So I'll leave it there because I know Mark's got a whole bunch of stuff. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so I agree. Quick successions of disgust, disdain, distaste in the mouth there. I think your rights got some of it is absolutely to do with trying to kind of raffle through emotions, not being able to pick the right one, clearly doing that for the jury. I think some of it is, there's some good literature out there that says we will get an abundance of those emotions around certain personality disorders. And so there's a good chance that there's a baseline there of this disgust and distaste which is around a personality disorder. But regardless of all of that, is it having an effect on the jury? Which way are they going to go? Because she's probably quite right to try and have an effect on the jury because they're the ones that are going to make the decision. Well, we're not there. We can't see the effect on them. But we can experience some of the effect that it's having on the judge. Or certainly I was having a conversation with an old friend of mine who happens to be a judge, happens to be a magistrate in the UK system. However, she is a magistrate that deals with a great deal of domestic violence cases. And in this conversation, a very trusted person, in this conversation she said, well, if the judge believed these emotions, if the judge believed that Amber Heard is experiencing some very difficult emotions at this time, the judge has a duty of care. And the judge would probably, possibly maybe say something like, Miss Heard, do you need a moment? Or let's take a break for a moment. If she believed what was going on here. I suspect, I don't think, I've not seen that the judge at any point during Heard's most emotional displays has ever done that. I'm going to take from that that the judge doesn't buy this. Well, it doesn't really matter because the judge isn't making a decision. The judge is just running the court and going, I will decide if somebody needs time. Because the judge, the idea is, the judge will help the victim get out the straight facts unencumbered in many cases by the emotion because it maybe doesn't help. Often it doesn't help get the story across correctly. In this case, the judge seems to be letting her run with this. Well, I think that's interesting. I think that's interesting because if that's the case, the judge doesn't buy it. If the judge doesn't buy it, why would the jury buy it? So it's maybe not having the effect that she'd like it to have. And now having said that, US system could be very different from my friend's UK system. I don't know. Amber, other than the threats that you've described, what other threats have you endured since the death wall and the statements were made? I receive hundreds of death threats regularly, if not daily. Thousands since this trial has started people mocking. Mocking my testimony about being assaulted. Making fun of my... Abjection relevance, non-responsive. That's the damage. You can continue. It's been... Organizing. Organizing. It's painful. And it was humiliating. Ever has to go through. Ever has to go through something like this. I want Johnny to leave me alone. I just want him to leave me alone. I've said that for years now and I thought he would after 2020. What do you hope to reclaim after this is over? Protecting the secret that I did for as long as I did has taken enough of my voice. Johnny has taken enough of my voice. I have the right to tell my story. I have the right to say what happened to me. I have the right to my voice and my name. He took it long enough. I have a right as an American to talk about what happened to me to own my story and my truth. I have that right. I hope to get my voice back. Chase, what do you got? Right at this whole secret thing. We're talking about this secret. There's distancing because there's no mention of anything there. There's no abuse. There's no getting beat. There's no mention of anything. It's all encapsulated in this one word secret where we see an eye flutter and we see facial avoidance right at that exact moment when she's talking about this secret. When she's saying there's a right to tell my story to say what happened to my voice, there's a huge sad expression as she's scanning the jury. Her face goes way down. You can see it here. Almost forced. When she's saying I have a right to talk about my story and truth, she's still checking the jury one at a time for signals that she's being effective, I think. The only time truth is mentioned here is when it's her truth. Not the truth. Her truth. I think there's a difference between those two. This missing voice routine kind of sounds like it's from a movie. Not sure which one. Maybe you know. If you do, let me know in the comments. I'm going to go to the third movie and see if you get it. That's all I got. Mark, where do you go? Let's look at, again, the context of this and the images and maybe the linguistics that are going on. As some of you might know, I've spent quite a bit of time as what, back in the UK, we call a spin doctor. Someone who takes a story and politically makes it into something else. Here's some great spin going on here. I mean all credit is trying to get their way on something. They're trying to convince not only a jury, you know, 10, 12, whatever it is, people, I think eight go in at the end or maybe six. Can't quite remember, but a mass of people, but also a public out there. The question that's put is about reclaiming. Well, that's really interesting because it says that you had something in the first place and it was taken away. So the reclaim, I think of what was yours. And it then redirects to human rights. Well, that is always a great thing to put down because it's very difficult for people to go, well, no, I mean, you shouldn't have any human rights. I mean, it's very good for those to be taken away from you. So the moment you go to human rights, then you're now on a super moral high ground on that. So she's spun it to her that human rights have been taken away. That's a tough one. I mean, you can say, well, no, I don't think that's the case because you were able to talk and nobody stopped you talking. They just sued you around it. I mean, just look, you can say whatever you like in America for sure. Say whatever the hell you like just about anywhere. I think there's only, you know, you can't shout fire in a theater probably like you got in the in the UK. But apart from that, you can say whatever you like. But there are consequences. If you say stuff, somebody will sue you or some other consequences, you know, some in some cases you can say stuff and you will go to jail. You're not allowed. I mean, you can say it but you're not protected in what you say. You're protected to say it. You're not protected after the fact. So she deflects to redirect to the human rights and then she deflects to an even higher power probably which is an American and that for me is great spin because we would say all the time look, let's just get out there stick the flag up the flagpole you know and just let's attach our message to the flag because it's so hard for somebody to take that message down unless they're your enemy and then you know, they'll burn the flag. But if it's your group, they will not attack that. What I love about that piece of spin there is she went for the two, she spun it to the two of the highest. She didn't quite hit God there. That would be the next place to go. Not going for that one. Maybe because of her audience in general who she's trying to align with there but give her a Jew. Good spin. Greg, what do you think? Where you going? Mark, I'm almost going to mirror exactly what you said. I mean, I call it the duty, her duty speech. I mean, she's wrapping herself in the flag. She's talking about human rights. She's doing all of that. And I just said, boy, this one ain't choreographed, is it? I'm an American. I need my voice. My truth, modern words, really strong modern words. I said she should have thrown in some other rights while she's swinging for the fence. What the hell? You know, just go for it. But there she was. This is the audition of her lifetime, guys. This whole trial, if she has been successful to now, this is her last audition. If she fails this and she comes out as a monster who's saying he's a monster and she's wrong. You think she's going to work again? You think people are going to line up to see the movie? This could be a big deal for her. So in my opinion she has to deliver on whatever she's trying to here. Do I think she does? No. She does start with some good sorrow. Her brow tips are pointing up and you can see it. But then she starts to kind of go down that well toward anger. Let me tell you one thing. People who are angry show it like that. They don't ramp slowly up to it and stumble over it. It comes up very quickly. Based on my it's been many years since I studied all the impact of adrenaline on the system. But if my memory serves me correctly, in about 45 microseconds you start to show thumbs rotate in. Your rib cage gets rigid. Lots of things start to happen. It doesn't slowly build up as your words get stronger and stronger and stronger. And that's what we're seeing here. That's acting. That's going down the well. That's trying to build up enough emotion to feel it. And then the last one is Chase. You've said it over and over and over. Only children have that flush of emotions run across their face like this. Little bitty children may have it. I've seen little bitty children when they're confused and they're trying to control an emotion because they know it's going to go badly for them and you'll see them it break through and go back, break through and go back. But it's not many emotions. It's one and a control. One and a control. That's not what I see here. On his part, if you watch Jeff, I see him milling his jaw and doing everything possible to avoid eye contact with her. When she looks down, he looks away all of those kinds of things. So this is her last audition in my opinion. That's what I think we're seeing. Scott, what do you got? That's pretty good. So you guys have covered pretty much everything. But after the question, when she's first asked the question a lot of people are going to say, oh I see a single shoulder shrug. She's actually down here rubbing her hands doing that. So after the question you'll see that come up. You may think that, you may not have seen that or might be thinking about that. That's what I saw in that part. She's using that her hands as an adapter because it's getting pretty stressful for it at this point. She knows that question is coming and she's obviously she's prepped for it. So she's ready for it. And it's pretty much like you guys were saying the same stuff we saw earlier. She's delivering a prepared answer and the emotions are fake and she's just trying to be dramatic. What do you hope to reclaim after this is over? Protecting the secret that I did for as long as I did has taken enough of my voice. Johnny has taken enough of my voice. I have the right to tell my story. I have the right to say what happened to me. I have the right to my voice and my name. He took it long enough. I have a right as an American to talk about what happened to me to own my story and my truth. I have that right. I hope to get my voice back. Miss Hurd, you just testified that this case has been very hard for you. So let's talk about that and why. Alright. Your lies have been exposed to the world multiple times, right? I haven't lied about anything I've been here to say. You sat here and told this jury that the events in Hicksville started with Mr. Depp getting really upset about a woman leaning on you. Is that correct? Yes, that's effectively what happened, yeah. You testified that he actually grabbed that woman's wrist and twisted it, right? And told her that he could effectively break her wrist by saying he knew how many pounds of pressure or asking her how many pounds of pressure it took to break a human wrist. But your own witness, your former best friend Rocky Pennington, she didn't corroborate that, did she? I'm not quite sure what part of that night she saw. There were a lot of people there. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, just one little thing here, body language wise that I really like. Micro expressions of disgust and disdain around former best friend Rocky Pennington. Now, is that disgust and disdain because it's a former best friend who didn't tell a story that Herd would have liked to have heard to have told? I don't know. Is it disgust and disdain for the question being asked or disgust and disdain for something else around that? And by the way, as I've said before, there is just this baseline of disgust and disdain with Herd. But in this particular case, it is framed by nothing else happening in the face and they're pretty good micro expressions that are happening there. So I'm going to say it's a real feeling not acted of disgust and disdain around that issue there. I don't know whether it's about the question or whether it's about a former best friend but might be worth you just going back, taking a look in there, going frame by frame and taking a look yourself and seeing what that looks like. Scott, what do you got on this one? We see eyelid flutter when she says your lies have been exposed to the world multiple times. That sort of hits her wrong at that point because she knows this is important. Her voice tone is much lower here. The volume of her voice is lower. Her cadence is a lot slower. She's just delivering this ding, just one, two, three like that. Her posture is bent forward a little bit. But all these cues are letting us know that she's a little bit unsure about answering this and that's going to come out right. Maybe she didn't rehearse it enough or wasn't ready for it, but that's what it looks like anyway. Then she does an eye roll when she's asking her about how many pounds of pressure. When she asks her the question she says he's talking about how many pounds of pressure on the thing. We see an eye roll in there. That's a cue of disrespect. You could say it's boredom. A lot of times you'll see that with someone who's bored, but in this case I think it's disrespect and trying to make his credibility look low. But I think he says stuff like that all the time. That's why she would do the eye roll. I think that was real because maybe he sits around trying to say cool stuff, but he said some pretty cool stuff. So maybe he's saying cool stuff all the time and she's just sort of over it. Amber and I do that when I tell the same joke over and over with a different group of people. She's so over all my jokes. I'm sure I get a lot of eye rolls in there from her. I can feel it coming off her. At this point I thought she really didn't like him at all at this point. I thought she didn't like him. Not in love with her. Now I think she hates his guts, especially seeing the eye roll like that. I think she's so over sketched she can't stand it. Which she should be at this point I guess. Chase, what do you got? Right at this point where she's saying I haven't lied about anything I've come here to say. There's qualifying. There's no mention of truth whatsoever. There's a lack of a confident denial and there's immediate mouth closure after her statement which are all indicators of deception and we treat if we treating body language and behavior profiling like meteorology. We're looking at science based stuff collecting a bunch and then providing a likelihood of deception to you. Just like precipitation. That was a high percentage of precipitation. That's a nice shot, man. It just said snow. It would have been easier. He's Canadian of course it's snow. So when she's saying there's a lot of people there she shifts back. I want you to watch her face closely. She shifts back her trial protection face when she was sitting with her attorney watching Depp take the stand this very protected face that she's adopted and I'm surprised I haven't. I'm not an attorney maybe an attorney if you are an attorney let us know why but I haven't heard maybe once. I don't know. I don't think I've heard it an objection for assuming facts not in evidence which is I've heard here many times as far as I know. Greg? The only thing I have noticed chase before I get into my part the only thing I have noticed is they will introduce into evidence things that were not there already because we'll see that late in this series of videos and it may just be that they're doing it and we clip the video in a place where there's something that they had introduced and it was brand new. The good thing is when you introduce something brand new we get to see stress. That's great. Look at me. Oh my god. What? Oh my god. It's not like the good kids. Sorry fellas. I'm going to hear the end of this. Never. So this is about as friendly as her face gets Mark I agree with you she has all this negative emotion and all this disdain and all that just wrapped up in there and this is actually pretty comfortable but it's how she keeps her face set. She says all right and you can hear her being kind of placating and talking to the front of her mouth. That's a good indicator that all right. Then you hear if you pay attention to her you'll see that two faces. When she's talking to her attorney she's got a much calmer face than she does here and that shows you all that disdain and everything else is in there. A couple of things that are interesting for me that they should have chased is when she says I haven't lied about anything I have been here to say. Question number two well what about the things we forced you to answer would have been my question I would have crawled her and we're going to see more of that she's conditioning the question and she has a long drawn out pause to answer the question as she's talking about the woman leaning. She does that little bobble head thing and while that may be part of many cultures it's not in ours so something's going on in her head there and I'll leave a couple of last ones I got a bunch here but you'll watch her as she's trying to answer the question rifle up left rifle up right as she's trying to figure out how to respond to is that he was leaning she was leaning on you and he got angry and she said you could effectively say that and chase when she does that quick mouth close she does a lip retraction at the same time there's no emotion whatsoever when she's talking about him threatening this person the only thing we see is she sways when she disqualifies her friend Rocky in addition to mark all that disdain that comes up so I think there's something here there's something that we would dig into one question that she avoided that they let her get away with that's it and now we're going to try to find Scott yeah John can you guys still hear me Miss heard you just testified that this case has been very hard for you so let's talk about that and why alright your lies have been exposed to the world multiple times right I haven't lied about anything I've been here to say you sat here and told this jury that the events in Hicksville started with Mr. Depp getting really upset about a woman leaning on you is that correct yes that's effectively what happened yeah you testify that he actually grabbed that woman's wrist and twisted it right and told her that he could effectively break her wrist by saying he knew how many pounds of pressure asking her how many pounds of pressure it took to break a human wrist but your own witness your former best friend Rocky Pennington she didn't corroborate that did she I'm not quite sure what part of that night she saw there were a lot of people there she but you testified that you had absolutely nothing to do with the videos release right absolutely not and you testified that you learned about it when you landed after flying into LA do you remember that testimony upon touchdown is when I was alerted to the videos you heard Mr. Tremaine testify that this about this video as well yesterday didn't you yes I did and you heard Mr. Tremaine testify that TMZ received the cabinet video the same day you landed at LAX yes I don't know I don't know if that's what his testimony was I'm sorry you heard Mr. Tremaine testify that the cabinet video was posted 15 minutes after TMZ received it yes that's what I heard him say and that this could only have been possible if the video was received directly from the source yes I heard him say that I don't know if that's true or if that's possible because it didn't come from me I was flying you heard Mr. Tremaine testify I know that's incorrect is what I mean to say alright Chase what do you got so right at the absolutely not point there's an immediate mouth closure there I was alerted to the videos existence online and Camille's question was about learning about it being posted and if someone else leaked the video for her these are the words that you might expect to hear in a scenario like that and when she sang it came directly from the source I'm just going to touch on a couple things here she's saying I don't know if that's true or if that's possible she's talking about her own phone and let's talk about qualifiers really quick if I ask Greg did you do drugs last night and Greg's answer is well not to the best of my knowledge that's potentially deceptive but if I ask Greg did the guy who lives four doors down from you do drugs last night and you say well not to the best of my knowledge it's the same answer but whether or not it's deceptive or potentially deceptive is based on what question was being asked and this question is very specifically about her phone which makes a huge difference so it depends on the situation being asked about but in this situation yes there's a high a very high likelihood of deception where she said I don't know how that could happen or if that's possible it was her own phone so she's not making a denial about something she very well should be if she was being truthful and when she's saying it didn't come from me I was flying as an interrogator here is where you dig she asked somebody to send it I would be willing to say as an interrogator in that moment my only thought would be I need to find out who sent it because it wasn't her it was probably somebody that was asked to send the video Greg what do you got yeah thanks for picking me next because I'm going to fall right in where you dropped off the interrogator in me would be crawling all over her at the moment let's just do a couple of things number one I'm going to cover two pieces of body language that's it the rest we're going to unpack her deception or her potential deception number one she started off by saying absolutely not and did a lip compression minor but a lip compression if you pay really close attention she's either holding back emotion or information or something I always call real hard grip there's emotion but it's always some kind of information the other thing she does is she whips her head around having that little tail hanging there you notice her head whipping around and anybody who has ever had any involvement with I won't say all women do it but every woman I've ever met when you anger them their heads move differently than they do when they're talking like happily so that's a bad indicator that she's starting to get aggressive back now let's interrogate what she said she said I had a question and she negotiated the answer by saying upon touchdown was when I was alerted of the video's existence online there's a hell of a lot of distancing conditioning qualifying everything you can think of in there so I'm just going to run down a list of things I might ask her which video I want to make sure I lock her down to which video we're both talking about and my next question would be were you surprised because that's a real potential for her to lie and guys when we talk about indicators of deception we're talking about a social contract that humans have with each other that we feel guilt, remorse or discomfort with breaking so every time you give a person when you're questioning them the opportunity to break that contract the interrogator gets to go well there's a deviation in word, in deed in breathing rate, in physical things in body language all of that so then I would say is it the first time that you learned about this video guess what that's a leading question and by interrogator speak that means it only has a yes or no answer and that is usually considered a bad question but I would be doing it to corral her so that when she says it's from her phone she can't say it's first time she learned about the video so I've now redirected the conversation into my wheelhouse then I would say where did this video originate how did it get from your phone to the distributor whoever distributed it don't care what was the agreement with the distributor all those are building pressure and we get the chance to see things were you surprised by its appearance were you surprised by the video's appearance online now let me reframe the question Ms. Herd how did a video from your phone appear on the internet without your knowledge and that changes the equation from what she just answered now she's got to lie seven times to get to that final lie and it's building up on her now when she locks her down about this TMX testimony her use language starts to fade and we know that fight or flight turns off the thinking brain and turns on the cat or responsive brain and when that happens then she starts to go hummin' words that make no sense she didn't come with it as a prepared answer and I would ask her the last question how did that get from your possession to there how to get there that's my one question by letting her get away with this she's come with one sentence she has to stumble and prepare and you didn't take it apart you didn't unpack it we all know that that's part of being an attorney and part of being in front of people but that's the power of questions that's interrogated brain Scott what do you got two things for me I'll keep my fairly short there's that word absolutely not that it means that somebody's every time you hear it somebody's being deceptive but boy you sure hear a lot when somebody's being deceptive I mean we hear it all the time absolutely not that's I don't know every time I hear that another thing that makes me pay attention was when people start talking weird you know she says upon touchdown who talks like that astronauts maybe it'd be like me saying to Greg tussle upon touchdown I shall meet you in the sky lounge at the delta and we'll have those little chicken sandwich croissants like we love so much and we shall drink the sparkly fizzy water like as does the rich man so every time I hear something like that I go everything in me goes hang on man say that again so I make him talk about it again or I would make them talk about it again that just bugs me that just sends off every breath like I agree with Greg I try them right up there and tear that whole story apart at that point Mark what do you got that's how I talk all the time when I'm inviting people to the lounge by the way just drink the fizzy water as duff the rich man that's the that's just normal English by the way just so everybody knows so look she's decided to wear her hair today or have it managed for her in a less puritanical way so it's falling in tresses and just as Greg you were saying it means we can really pick up the movement and some of the movement like you say it's just exaggerating some of the normal head moves and some of the movement is exaggerating some of the more extreme head moves and there are some times I think where we really see a clear flick of that hair now that I would say is a faint move not a faint as in like I'm fainting but a distraction move and a kind of a showing off move and she's got good hair that's expensive hair that she's got there and one of the things that males and females but probably culturally across the planet more predominantly females will use their hair as a display of status I thought you'd like that one Chase the display of status and then flick that hair move that hair around so as many people as possible can see that the the wealth that went into that hair yeah Greg nothing I can do for you mate nothing nothing I can do for you you're an outlier at a whole different a whole different level so I would say she is where we see those head those hairflicks she is very aggressive against the question she thinks she is bigger higher status or she wants to show higher status against the question now I think there's a slip up here I could be wrong I often get these kind of things wrong but I think there's a slip up here it did not come from me I was lying she said would hang on did she just admit she was lying did not come from me I was lying what do you think Greg I think she said flying I think it's just the way I was flying that's why you have yeah see I don't speak American only English alright well let's let's scrub that completely then did not come from me I was flying that's incorrect is what I meant to say so she does still correct herself on that that did not come from me I was flying could have still come from her and then she corrects that too I was incorrect is what I meant it was incorrect is what I meant to say alright that's all I got on that one but you testified that you had absolutely nothing to do with the video's release right absolutely not and you testified that you learned about it when you landed after flying into LA do you remember that testimony upon touchdown is when I was alerted to the video you heard Mr. Tremaine testify that this about this video as well yesterday didn't you yes I did and you heard Mr. Tremaine testify that TMZ received the cabinet video the same day you landed at LAX yes I don't know I don't know if that's what his testimony was I'm sorry you heard Mr. Tremaine testify that the cabinet video was posted 15 minutes after TMZ received it yes that's what I heard him say and that this could only have been possible if the video was received directly from the source yes I heard him say that I don't know if that's true or if that's possible because it didn't come from me I was flying Tremaine testify I know that's incorrect is what I mean to say this is you at the courthouse on May 27 2016 when you got your domestic violence restraining order against Mr. Depp right it is and next to you is a woman named Jody Gottlieb right right yes yes Jody Gottlieb is your publicist and dear friend I'd like to show you what's been marked as plaintiff's exhibit 1316 this is a picture of you and your friend Rocky Pennington right that is correct your honor I'd like to move to admit this photograph any objection to 1316 no your honor alright 1316 evidence you can publish the jury this is a picture of you on May 28th 2016 right Ms. Hurd I don't know when this was taken this is the day after you obtained the domestic violence restraining order against Mr. Depp right I have no idea when this image was taken I did not take it there's no bruise on your face in this picture is there again I don't know when this was taken and also I'm outside I was obviously wearing makeup I have no idea when this was taken so I have no idea if I can speak to what bruise you can see let's refresh your recollection about when this picture was taken can we please pull up plaintiff's exhibit 1315 just for the witness this is an article dated May 30th 2016 right Ms. Hurd that's what it says yes and this article contains the same photograph of you Ms. Pennington we were just looking at yes yes I see that and the article is entitled Amber Hurd smiles as she puts arm around friend one day after getting restraining order against Johnny Depp is that what the title says I know that's what the title says yes your honor I'm going to move to admit and publish the article with everything but the headline and date and the photo redacted all right Greg what do you got yeah I'm short on this one when we first started the show you guys remember we were trying to say what do we like best about body language like 150 episodes ago oh yeah I remember that my was amusement and amusement has always been for me a beautiful thing to watch because people's cheeks will rise but they'll contain their smile and their eyes will still engage the smile and you can't miss it and you're starting to see some of that with her here she's prepared for this question she has a long face and so she's just ready for it you see her neck stiffen and tighten just a little bit and she goes I did not take the picture she sets up straight it's just all rigid she's prepared it's just conflict for her now Depp if you watch him here's a really good example of what we always talk about when somebody recognizes something their brow rises his attorney leans over and says something to him and his brow goes interesting so something he recognizes something a god nervous smile that's part of his persona and watch him tapping and drilling his fingers that tells you when he's on the stand he's contained and under control later Scott what do you got? well the first half she's calm and her body language is pretty much the same as it's been from what we've seen before and then when she sees the picture of seeing her friend it's almost like hits her a little bit so that shows she's interested but she knows it's coming at that point it's kind of like a little surprise and she smiles a little bit and when she says I have no idea when that picture was taken I did not take it she didn't contract you would say normally you would say I don't know when that picture was taken I didn't take it but she doesn't so that's a cue most likely this was something they rehearsed and were ready for and playing for but when they don't contract that's another thing when somebody starts talking and starts to perk up and start paying attention like a big red flag alright so I got Chase what do you got? I just want to know who brings a publicist to the court for a photo oh wait she's the dear friend that makes every sorry I forgot about that right when Camille is saying there's no bruise on your face is there I think the is there stuff and didn't you and aren't you phrased to be a little softer to help that legal team because the legal team and whether or not the jury likes the legal team sadly is just about as important as whether or not they like the defendant and plaintiff but she denies knowing the date of the photo about and the questions about a bruise she denies the date and a truthful witness would in my opinion be more okay with talking about wanting to cover up the bruise the desire to cover it up and recalling the date after having spent weeks reviewing all of her evidence I think a truthful person would have experienced some shame about the bruise especially if it's a if it's what a witness is referring to as the huge secret that would openly discuss the desire to conceal the bruise instead of publicize them I don't know when this was taken so I can't say whether or not you can see a bruise in this photo or not we see this just like legal language here but whoa this took me for a ride this morning how bizarre and out of character from what we've all likely seen in truthful recollection of witnesses when she says I don't know when this was taken so I can't say whether you see a bruise I don't know when it was taken so I don't know whether there's a bruise in front of my face looking at this photo right in front of me super strange and continuing to argue about these dates and stuff instead of saying yes she's trying to be a lawyer which is a bad idea especially on the last day when the jury is going to deliberate and she's saying that's what it says yes I see that I know that's what the title says yes you just agree be more agreeable because the jury needs to like you and I'll go off on a short rant here it'll be about 40 seconds if you guys will allow it I know it's easy to see people on YouTube and think they're just some random dudes all of us have well over I think probably a hundred thousand hours of interview and analysis experience so when we see the comments like what did you think maybe she didn't have sleep or maybe they're stressed out I think those are cute and helpful I know you're trying to contribute but here's one thing I want you to believe with you here and the hardest thing to measure in academic studies is also the easiest for academic people to ignore and that is skill if somebody studies the science of athletics for their entire life it will never make them an athlete and somebody studies psychology for decades in college it doesn't give them charisma or even social skills even good people skills and what studying academic sides of things does is increase knowledge it doesn't necessarily increase skill the real skills come when knowledge and skill are kind of paired together and there's a huge tremendous difference between an information expert and a skill expert with experience and I'll leave you with one question here as you hear all this stuff about body language on the internet would you rather ride on the back of a motorcycle with somebody who's studied the physics of motorcycles for 20 years or somebody who's been riding them for 20 years and that's all I have on that Mark what do you got? Yeah lovely so you know often as well it's where you place that skill and that knowledge and in places where maybe other people would never think to place it I want you to have a look at one of those pictures not the picture with her and her dear friend the publicist but the picture of her with her former friend Rocky Pennington former best friend Rocky Pennington and okay so what I want you to look at by the way listen whenever you look at a still image as we're always asked to look at this still image look at this still image we have to understand we're looking at a frame in time okay so we don't know what's happening before and we don't know what's happening after but there are some questions and ideas that may be helpful that come from where we are right now I want you to go and look at how Amber Herd is holding the arm of Rocky Pennington Rocky has a drink in her hand I think it's this arm here it's in really close and Amber has her joint there okay now just try and do this with a best friend or form a best friend as they're walking along coffee just tuck your arm around them and just grab their elbow joint and see what happens see if they don't go what's going on see if they don't just shift a little bit to go what are you controlling my arm and my so look here's the question that comes to mind and I don't know the answer to this but it's the kind of question that somebody skilled might think about which is is that hold from somebody who's caring or is it from somebody who is being controlling are they comforting and caring or are they controlling is that hold from somebody who's being friendly or are they being forceful now again I don't know the answer to that but I know where my bias is swinging right now based on what I'm seeing in that I don't see that hold very much now of course you'll be able to come up with reasons and I can come up with reasons as well and we'll all be able to come up with reasons why that might happen in a moment after something or before something else but it is interesting that it's there and if you missed that at all what was happening there well that's what skill does for you is to look in places that other people don't look this is you at the courthouse on May 27th 2016 when you got your domestic violence restraining order against Mr. Depp right that is enough this was a woman named Jody Gottlieb right yes yes Jody Gottlieb is your publicist and dear friend now I'd like to show you what's been marked as plaintiff's exhibit 1316 this is a picture of you and your friend Rocky Pennington right that is correct your honor I'd like to move to admit this photograph any objection to 1316 no your honor alright 1316 evidence you can publish the jury this is a picture of you on May 28th 2016 right Mr. I don't know when this was taken this is the day after you obtain the domestic violence restraining order against Mr. Depp right I have no idea when this image was taken I did not take it there's no bruise on your face in this picture is there again I don't know when this was taken and also I'm outside I was obviously wearing makeup I have no idea when this was taken so I have no idea if I can speak to what bruise you can see around about when this picture was taken can we please pull up plaintiff's exhibit 1315 just for the witness this is an article dated May 30th 2016 right Mr. that's what it says yes and this article contains the same photograph of you and Miss Pennington's we were just looking at yes yes I see that and the article is entitled Amber heard smiles as she puts arm around friend one day after getting restraining order against Johnny Depp is that what the title says I know that's what the title says yes your honor I'm going to move to admit and publish the article with everything but the headline and date and the photo redacted Miss Vasquez has suggested that you faked bruises on your face is that true absolutely not I didn't need to did you ever fake an injury caused by Mr. Depp no is any of the evidence of your injuries that has been put to the jury in this trial fake no absolutely not and to the extent that there may be some confusion over when a picture of spilled wine was taken why might that be traction there's lack of foundation overruled because there's so many incidents of violence are so there's so many pictures there's so much evidence most people don't have this kind of evidence for years five years and when I was saying that to Johnny on the phone in that recording I was saying for years this has been going on and I have pictures we have text we have everything normally you don't get this amount of evidence that's what I was pointing out to Johnny would be crazy to try to challenge this in this way it's crazy it's easy to not know the context of a picture of spilled wine because there are so many more important details pictures and also so much I didn't photograph so much I didn't have the presence actually not responsive Greg what do you got yeah I'll be short on this one look when they ask her did you ever fake an injury she does a wonderful thing and that is she shows exasperation she holds her mouth open and she goes but it's 12 seconds after she delivers the answer this is a bad kung fu movie this is something wrong here in the way she's delivering this all the animation she's just not timely so something's up then when they say something about photo evidence that one shoulder rises and she's got that swivel switch going in when she looks at the jury she's making hard eye contact and making lots of faces she's got to be careful again depends on who's in the jury and which culture they may be from remember Virginia is a real mix of cultures tell us what that shoulder rise means really quick yeah thanks thanks for bringing that up yeah so uncertainty with what you're talking about or with what's being discussed when you do that single shoulder rise so we wonder okay why is this an issue for her for me the biggest tell in this entire thing when you want to talk about tells those to have all of your messaging right and then suddenly deliver it like you know I really feel bad for you I know you've been going through a lot Scott that's about what that looked like to me it's that delayed or even more it's seconds if not many seconds later mark what do you got yeah so here's the way I'm putting it Greg is there is a lot of emotional dressing around the whole piece it's like a yeah I mean it's like a costume of emotion being worn and I really pick it up in the breathing there's breathing that's happening around stuff that doesn't make any sense for the through line of what she's trying to achieve it doesn't make any sense for the emotion that I think she's wanting to be having or even any emotions that I know of she's not breathing in a way that denotes any strong clear emotion for me which suggests it's dressing and then the real nail on this one for me is has any of the evidence of injury been fake or worse to that effect there is a massively contrasting different tone to that answer I mean go back look at it again and see what happens in pitch in breathing in that emotional breathing dressing around it and Scott to your point earlier with that word absolutely and again let's just say it again it doesn't mean anything but we hear it a lot and we hear it a lot from people who turned out to not be not telling us the truth okay it's not necessary it's you know it's absolutely not necessary to add that absolutely let's just say that anyway I'll leave it at that and I'm sure everybody else is just going to compound on top of this but let's see Scott what do you think all right I think this this answer was completely prepped because she's ready for it and she knows it's an important answer that's an important question so I think that's why they were ready for it and when the other attorney breaks into it to object she has to start all over again she's like rear back cocked and ready to go but as soon as she goes and then she breaks in and starts the very same spot again so I think this is rehearsed and it's just it sounds so pitiful to go it's just lame but what are you going to say at this point we're seeing pretty much the same stuff over and over and over but it's just she's not acting she's not delivering this as she should and so I know what to say about it Chase what do you got I think she believes this I'm going to go out on a limb but I think she believes this to an extent and I think this is my opinion here is exactly how Amber believes her own story so there are small pieces of events that she recalls that were truthful then she edits details and each one just to increase the severity of a few things according to her and she's rehearsed the stories in her mind a lot many many times and I think also the final factor here is that she believes that she's doing something good for herself but more importantly that she is doing something good for humanity and even if some of the details are changed Johnny's still a bad person so I can edit a few of these details and it's okay he's still bad and evil so changing a few things doesn't change who he is in her mind it helps the world understand how bad he is and it helps her to become an icon who can help women so the imagined morality here justifies the blending of fact and fiction and I think that's what's really going on deep down juries are only processing data during pauses so I'll say this for every attorney and every person who's ever going to be deposed juries are only going to start processing the data once you stop talking like you just did now so the attorney just barrels through these questions and doesn't even look at her for her responses here it's her own attorney not even looking at her for her emotional responses that idea I'm going to talk about the fake bruises on your face nods yes before the answer so it's mismatched and it deviates from her baseline behavior and did you ever fake an injury she says no and then shakes her head did you ever fake an injury caused by Mr. Dent no is any of the evidence of your injuries there's a spilled glass of wine photo discussion watch this clip a few times and rewind it she starts answering with discussed facial expression on her face and when the objection happens right when the objection happens this emotion on the face vanishes in less than a second while she coldly looks back over to Camille and when it's overruled instantly the sad emotions back on her face and she's looking back at the jury again and to the extent that there may be some confusion over when a picture of spilled wine was taken why might that be back a foundation overruled was she saying there's so much evidence I think this points to my opinion that she's viewing this mountain of evidence for Johnny being unusual strange mean callous leaving her that she's able to emotionally justify the other actions or the other claims to assist her case that's all she's doing is just assist as a small assistance in her mind and I think in my opinion she's using this evidence as being a mountain of abuse because she equates the two I think that she equates the abandonment to abuse so this mountain of evidence is real 100% real in her mind that's why she's talking openly and honestly about no one has this much evidence no one has ever collected this much evidence in a case so whether that's this is a thorough deliberate falsification of attention or she honestly just believes the story we may never know nothing is ever nothing is ever better than this Johnny persons what do you got here's your thing, when you get into it you squish all up and do this number you get this going you know when you would take me before we get started that's the one I'm going to get on you you squish down get that hand going like that okay, I got you keep going in and out of focus you move your hands in front of the camera I told you how to focus off this camera is horrible I bought it from Eric, like a year and a half ago as my backup for a camera from Eric yeah camera salesman now camera salesman camera is my Eric Scott Miss Vasquez has suggested that you faked bruises on your face is that true absolutely not, I didn't need to did you ever fake an injury caused by Mr. Depp no is any of the evidence of your injuries that has been put to the jury in this trial fake no, absolutely not and to the extent that there may be some confusion over when a picture of spilled wine was taken why might that be overruled because there's so many incidents of violence there's so many pictures there's so much evidence most people don't have this kind of evidence for years and when I was saying that to Johnny on the phone in that recording I was saying for years this has been going on and I have pictures, we have text we have everything normally you don't get this amount of evidence that's what I was pointing out to Johnny to challenge this in this way it's crazy it's easy to not know the context of a picture of spilled wine because there are so many more important details, pictures and also so much I didn't photograph so much I didn't have the presence of how many times have you done MDMA in your life Mr. Depp actually not many not that many times I would say in my lifetime maybe in my lifetime MDMA 6, 7 maybe and how much MDMA have you done on those occasions not enough to not enough to properly well not enough to properly properly experience what the chemicals are supposed to do to you have you ever consumed 8 to 10 MDMA pills at once no man no I have not and why is that because I'd be dead I'm pretty sure I'd be dead alright Mark what do you got yeah okay look he does go around the houses a little bit to get to some answers here and excuse me under normal circumstances if somebody were taking that amount of time and going around the houses on this one I might be a little bit worried but given his baseline this is fairly usual for him and here's the important thing he lands eventually on a very clear answer like 6 or 7 and didn't have the effect it should and I'd be dead so yeah I think you know you could look at this and go is he being deceitful here why is he taking such a journey why is he taking so long around this that's normal for him lands on strong answers I don't have a great deal of problem with his performance here Greg what do you think yeah I usually would agree with you Mark in this case I'm not certain here's why he conditions the hell out of the question yes he's a search for change in the floor does he speaks kind of guy he doesn't do all that here when they ask him the question he conditions a question actually I would say not that many times then he negotiates even further by saying in my lifetime finally to an answer of 6 or 7 maybe he could have said 4 he could have gone you know but his baseline is exactly what you say hunting for the answer make hard eye contact shake his head or shake his head his timing is not the same go back and watch the very first video we did when he makes a point he'll go mark it was 6 or 7 times that's not here something's missing here so I doubt it's 6 or 7 times my opinion is I would dig in a little harder not that it matters for this case all that they're trying to do is prove he has used drugs and then they're going to try to tie this into some other part I would bet you could find 6 or 7 times that people have seen him use some drug just my opinion pay attention to that then he moves to some distaste with his mouth that we didn't see earlier in these and when they ask him about 8 to 10 pills he does something trademark for him and that's that disarming smile he has hey I'm Johnny Depp you know self deprecating but a smile Chase what do you got? I tend to agree a little bit here and the first thing here is you're going to see we talk about this contempt facial expression what the hell does it look like textbook beautiful chef's kiss example right on Amber Heard's face during the beginning of this and you'll see the corner of the mouth go up it's kind of a one sided smile this is a beautiful example on what it's supposed to look like the textbook example of feeling contempt for another human being but when he's saying not enough to experience what the chemicals intend or something like that you're looking a little more coach than normal he's having trouble with the descriptive language there's three postural retreats here just during this answer three postural retreats where we lean away there's facial touching which is also in his baseline so I ignore anything that's in baseline but it sounds coached it sounds a little rehearsed it's likely not entirely truthful I think the 8 or 10 thing is probably truthful I looked it up it's pretty bad and you'd probably be in the ICU with that but 8 to 10 MDMA at once there's a repetition of answer which is more suggestive of honesty and I think he's probably done enough to get the results in the past despite what he claims here that's all I got Scott I think he's breaking eye contact to thank you I'm set to get rid of all the stuff you guys already talked about that's pretty normal it's a little bit wacky but that's goes with a persona he's chosen to show people the style he's a star baby he's a star so that's normal for that kind of thing he has no problem really talking about that he's done drugs everybody knows he's done drugs we knew that before he went in doing this look who he was hanging out with and moves he's done yeah man he's done drugs and we know it so I don't think he has a problem talking about it but I think the amount of times that might be a problem the number of times I think she knows it's a lot more than he's going to say that's why we see that contempt on her face and I think this is a great example and something to save and think about for what's coming up as the last video that I go out of focus again how many times have you done MDMA in your life Mr. Depp actually not that many times I would say in my lifetime maybe in my lifetime MDMA 6, 7 maybe and how much MDMA have you done on those occasions not enough to not enough to properly well not enough to properly experience what the chemicals are supposed to do to you have you ever consumed 8-10 MDMA pills at once no no I have not and why is that because I'd be dead I'm pretty sure I'd be dead Mr. Depp when Dr. Kipper was treating your finger what did you tell him about how your finger became injured I told him that there was obviously I mean when you saw the damage in the house and the blood everywhere I mean obviously there was serious damage done there would be no point in lying to the man he'd been through it with me and Mr. Depp before I told him that she had thrown a bottle of vodka and smashed my smashed and cut my finger off the tip of my finger but a good chunk I miss it Chase what do you got I told you to call somebody else because I was chewing on an ice cube I can Mark what do you got so listen I think there's again some behaviors there that I would put within his baseline that I think you know other if you didn't know that you'd come into it and go why is he taking so long why this why that here's what I do see him doing which is smashed my smashed and cut my finger so he's being very certain to maximize the injury there and not minimize it because we've had before in the case testimony that says it was just his finger was just smashed he definitely wants people to know it was cut you know even when I say it smashed as opposed to cut cut is a much better word it's much more forceful word you probably see a much better injury if I say cut finger rather than smashed finger maybe and I think that's what he's trying to go trying to do the smash alone just minimize it he needs the cut and then he says tip the tip and then he realize he's minimized that so he has to go a considerable amount so he doesn't want you to think that just the tip was smashed he wants you to know that a considerable amount of the tip was cut and again once I tell you that story much better much better story and then quite nicely he finishes this piece of what I would say spin he's really trying to tell a good story about the injury there which could be true could be could be false I'll let everybody else weigh in as to how true or false that might be but he finishes off with quite a good kind of python-esque jack sparrow I miss it at the end lovely little one at the end I miss it bit of pathos there which is part of his skill he does often manage to bun stories with a really nice you know pathetic line at the end quite skillful Chase what do you think so in this video here there's a shift to internal dialogue and this happens when our eyes move down into our left and this is when we're talking to ourselves or rehearsing something that we've been reading or hearing over and over again and what he's saying he'd been through it with me and miss heard before there's a shift internal dialogue again there's facial touching in his baseline though and there's hesitancy where he's pausing a little bit small amount more than usual this I don't think the stress here is around the story but his retelling of the story to the doc specifically not that the story wasn't accurate but I think his stress is around the fact that whether or not he told the doctor story it looks like he's uncomfortable only during the recall of the relaying of the story to the doctor and during the bottle story of his testimony he's telling me the bottle like whizzing past his head we've all seen that dramatic illustration there was no indicators of deception so now I'm only wondering if the doc was accurately informed or if he actually told the doc at all great yeah I'm on the same page what's interesting here is when he is passionately talking about something and then here we know that his baseline is to look down into his left as he thinks about the answer he's going to use move his eyes over to the right as he searches for impact then move around in his head we know that when people's eyes move it means something now it there's no absolutes you have to go and dig for what it means in his case it's part of his baseline to go away left away right do that searching for change move that I was talking about and then make eye contact and nod or shake his head when he's emphatic he does a very good job of that when he's not emphatic he does a poor job of the hard eye contact and shaking or nodding what he does here is a poor job which you might immediately say well he's talking about his finger being severed but he isn't this is not the emphatic this is not the bottle wisdom by my head this is not that this is credibility of what I told the doctor well the doctor is going to say whatever it is so I don't feel marked to your point a lot of this is in baseline he touches his face so what it may be his nose itches just as who he is there are a couple of things that he does that are odd he grabs the mic stand and moves it around and I think Chase to your point with how to answer this don't know I can't read his mind I can only tell you that that's unusual for a guy who lives in front of a microphone he stammers and his head shakes and does what he usually would do just not as hard eye contact that's the biggest deviation I see there's a narrowing of his mouth and his blink rate is up as he's looking for things but it looks like he's relaying some information with some trepidation about what exactly to say and how to say it mark I think if he in fact realizes he's minimizing that would be enough reason not to feel emphatic and realize that he just stepped on his own feet and does something we'll get a chance to see what he looks like when he's under stress but that's it for this one Scott we got all right again he's acting like a star which is what you expect from somebody like this you want to see him do that you want to see him be that way or you expect him to be that way I'm not seeing any deception cues here not not much at all as it goes through here but I do see somebody being really really careful with what they're saying as we all would be so he's got to be very careful as he goes along here make sure he doesn't say anything out of line of what he's rehearsed or what he's been told to talk about think that the thing on his nose that's what he's scratching his nose that's just an adapter and he keeps his arms really close to his body and this helps him to look a little weaker like he's not a big he-man or very strong or anything he keeps them really really tight really really close and I think that helps him get maybe a little petty from the jury it may help it may not I don't know and he's not pandering to the jury like she was he's answering the questions to the attorney he's not looking at the jury when the attorney asks him the questions he doesn't flip around look at the jury and answer and then come back to the attorney so you guys cover most everything here that's all I got could you repeat that and you've also said that could you repeat that please that if you want to be with a woman that would be yours that's ludicrous you've also said that with respect to women that you want to be with you've remarked I need I want I take haven't you equally as ludicrous now can you pull up dx883 please you could pull up what you like I've never saw those words there's not enough hubris and you need to say anything like that 883 okay Mr. Depp these are text messages from you to Steven Duters on February 22nd 2017 correct this now this looks nothing like me you might have mistaken Mr. Depp we can show the full underdacted you've looked at a number of text messages in this case and the words him as the identifier that's you correct and every text message we've seen yeah sure it still doesn't mean it hasn't been screwed with that's not anything that I've ever said or written you want to see the whole thing I'm redacted we can look at that too no because you could have typed it up last night now I can assure you I didn't type it up last night Mr. Depp your honor I move for the admission of exhibit 883 alright any objection objection on relevance grounds your honor alright do you want to approach for a moment I haven't done one first so I'll go first on this one this is where it all changes so his voice tone goes a little bit higher his cadence speeds up his eye contact with it with the attorney is almost fixed and his voice is a little bit louder and these are all indications again that he's on alert that he's paying close attention to what he's saying what he's doing his lips are pursed and that indicates disagreement or something he's not into something he doesn't like or hearing something he doesn't like and usually look at that and say oh when you see a person lips there's an issue there that's what you want to think when you see something like that as he explains there's not enough to hubris in him to say that that's him in the text so that he wrote those texts we see a lot of lip person at that point the definition of hubris is excessive pride or self-confidence and arrogance which is he's coming across a lot of that but I don't think it's working against him I think he's pulling it off in a lot of parts at that point but since he's like that and I think everybody would assume he's like that he's got to kind of own that a little bit I think he does because he's aware that he comes off as prideful and arrogant and that's why he smiles a lot trying to tamp that down I think alright Mark what do you got? I think this is the most on the ropes that we've probably seen him throughout the whole trial so that might tell us something about his character first of all but also you know how much evidence he thinks is stacked against him and what the type of evidence he feels he gets most stressed out by yeah we see these bites at the side of the mouth we see lip person so this is more stressed than we normally see from him still the use of the poetic words like you used there Scott hubris instead of using confidence or pride he still has he's not so stressed out that he still can't grab a word like hubris so that's the poet there you know it's interesting right at the start could you repeat that please that is the most I've heard him sound like John Lennon and then he went on I think the next night or the night after to play in Sheffield with Jeff Beck and sing isolation which is a John Lennon song not particularly well actually in my opinion but then he was up against Jeff Beck and Johnny Depp is not a genius on the guitar by any stretch of the imagination but nonetheless interesting to hear that John Lennon clearly coming through there from my opinion I think he's genuinely has some confusion about the evidence at some point it may well be confusion around that it's just confusing for him he has never seen anything like this before or he's genuinely confused by being surprised by it I'm not quite sure which one anyway all I'd say at the end of this is I don't think the lawyer there does the best job of really nailing this down because he said I assure you I did not type it up last night well that just doesn't discount then that he didn't type it up on some other night or somebody else didn't type it up last night or on another night I think if I were the lawyer I'd have tidied that one up to say it's real evidence it's the real thing that's your you know that's your text message I wouldn't have tried to qualify it in that way Greg what do you got on this one yeah this is one where he is indeed on the ropes and I think what's happening here is if you think about this as a chess match if he admits that he sent some drug fueled or drunken text that said this how does that make him look now that lets them set up the next pawn in the chess match so I think that starts he realizes that now something is going to be used against him he's going to have a hell of a time backing out of because his text came from his phone here we are back to a video coming off somebody else's phone and he not unlike not unlike amber is also in the audition for his career if the world finds out or thinks and he walks away from here and they believe he's this monster she's made him out to be he's done he's done we see what happened to him in the past so he has to be very cautious as well if we don't see that usually in him he's very stoic in blank rate he also his target is shrinking his body is shrinking he's turtling he's getting smaller Scott you had it dead on his eye contact is sustained throughout the whole thing hard eye contact he goes to internal voice but he doesn't search for change over on the right before he answers and then he says a new word ludicrous ludicrous now maybe said it during other times but we didn't hear it uses it twice here equally ludicrous and he is emphatic when he does that and he telegraphs with his cadence by saying equally ludicrous purses his lips and disapproval at pushing forward and then he is talking with that downward tone from the back of his throat then he does a disclaimer likely for the good of the jury to say there's no way I would do anything like that I don't have a hubris but then when they show him the actual text watch his face everybody out here all of you can recognize the shock we all know what shock is because Darwin all those years ago figured out it was a universal emotion that we can all read once he does that you see an oh then he narrows his mouth and his body language gets a little more rigid you can hear him breathe his breathing breathing rate increases you can hear him breathe and then you see that grief muscle come up and he starts to navigate the answer know these aren't he says this looks nothing like me well if I'm interrogator I'm saying no I didn't ask you if it looks like you I'm asking did you write this you see the mouth grooming you mentioned Mark because he's feeling the stress and this is starting to build up on him and a interrogator should jump on him and go after him and say is it possible you don't remember you just said you didn't remember something five minutes ago and that would be my approach he's on the ropes here and this is a place where he actually could look very very very bad because he's saying something that they can make you guys got most everything and I agree but one thing we do see in here that we rarely see especially on the courtroom is a retreat of the dominant shoulder and we see this as the subject gets brought up if you trying to get yourself if you're just listening to this while you're shopping cucumbers in your kitchen or whatever just pull your pull you that dominant shoulder back and that's how we get into a like a fighting position so that's one of the pre violence indicators if we're on the street there's a cop but it's an anger indicator or disagreement indicator especially in situations like this and I think the level of confidence that we see I think he initially doubts that he said these things I do believe that he doubts that he said he likely sent these texts but now he's going to go has to go into this defensive mode you see his blink rate spikes and drops exactly you can watch in this video go up and down up and down exactly how we describe it with stress and focus you can watch it in this one clip and this is what to look for not not to say someone is lying but to identify the special context where more questions are needed and in the overall sense of things if you just think about the trial and its entirety if this is the one thing that got him on the ropes it should tell you a whole lot about who he is and what all we're dealing with between him and his ex-wife that's all I got alright let's throw down the room in 30 seconds or less let's kind of wrap it up and talk about what we think we've seen here Mark you want to go first yeah I guess thinking about all of that I just kind of think who's having to work harder here who's having to work harder who's putting in more effort here visibly I'm not saying somebody couldn't be paddling hard underneath and it not really showing but who's really showing that then putting in more effort here to the jury emotionally and do we think that's going to have the impact that they desire well we're going to find out pretty soon I guess Chase what are your thoughts from an academics perspective just looking at this stuff from academics is you're going to see something that I call a laboratory blind spot we can't isolate everything inside of a lab and you're definitely going to see that here but on the overall where is the abuse shame being ashamed of something turns the volume down on false accusations and pain turns the volume up for truthful accusations in my opinion I think we're seeing an actress and not a storyteller people who write really good fiction know one thing very well the main character needs a deep character flaw to make them likeable nobody enjoys a perfect character look at every superhero movie every Disney movie there's flaws in every main character and this was a case of a flawless innocent perfect human who's never made a mistake versus the most vile villain that ever existed it's just bad storytelling that's all I got Greg yeah I would start this off by saying my rap of this the entire series is this is a train wreck and a trash dump this is a horrible horrible story no matter how we look at it and it looks like a story of a brawler in my opinion the brawler and an insecure druggy kind of guy a guy who uses substance to for whatever reason whether it's recreation or whatever those two people might not match very well together and I'm not sure which side is honest I will say this that she is hard to believe and she's hard to like when you're looking at her in the way she approaches things her emotions her most ramped up emotions to your point chase about anger are around when she's disrespected when I would think I would be really angry about the violation of person of self all the physical violence it just doesn't show the same he likely also has moments where he doesn't remember things because if he's drinking that much or doing that much we can't tell but if any of what she said is true or half of what he said is true maybe he does send these texts and those kind of things almost all he said she said stories are going to be one side or the other you know a little bit in the middle it's not going to be none of it's going to be true it's going to be half truths but she swung for the fences on this story he's either an all out monster I mean the stuff she's accusing him of is not kind of he's a jerk he's an all out monster if she's right or she's a liar because she swung for the fence they both have shown signs of deception his is mostly been around stupid things like saying stupid stuff he's shown some certain there something's written or he said that leads me to believe she's the one that's not believable and if she's swung that hard for the fence we'll wait and see what the jury says that's my opinion Scott what do you got I think this is a great example of seeing like Chase was saying seeing a story go along the more that you watch of this trial the more you see the separation of she's really different than this guy you know she's really telling one story he's really telling another story as you would expect in this situation but it sure looks like she's I've got a lot more deceptive cues from her than I did from him so when it comes to believe in fact put my money on it I don't think it'd be tough to say who showed the most cues of deception in those two so I think it's a great example of seeing people are we all the time we're all the time talking about trial and court and those types of things I think it's a great example of just being able to sit there and watch these things we always talk about happen right in front of you so I think this was a good one and I'll see you next time deal the behavior of panel objection objection I knew her she was my friend alright she was my friend she was my friend you have one objection that I never heard during this trial that I hear during every single trial what the f*** man I'm not going to save in the video but it's objection calls for facts not in evidence there is one and there's one that they actually do that has facts not in evidence and part of it Chase I think is because they're saying let's say it let's bring it up we'll talk about it at the end of our talk here let's bring that up and make it part of the closing Chase just throw it in just like we were doing save this alright