 Hey everyone, thank you for joining this session and hopefully be a couple of two or three interesting People to talk to you Me perhaps in third place, but I'll start and get the boring bit out of the way for you and then get into the good stuff So just after I'm Chris Croucher. I'm CEO just after midnight and we are the go-to 24-7 support people for digital teams I thought I'd just spend 20 minutes today Just telling you a bit about our thoughts on what it takes to run a really successful 24-7 support operation It's a bit of a different Topics is perhaps some of the topics today We do a lot of support for people who are working with Drupal both Digital agencies and people who are delivering Drupal projects and clients too So just want to take you back to a time before just after midnight or jam to a friend's Existed and just give you an insight into what drove us to create such an unusual business And perhaps how support can be done better without the headaches So up until about four or five years ago. I was Myself and my business partner in fact who's based in the UK I'm based here in Australia We ran a digital agency And you know the kind of clients we were working with were enterprise and government clients and Non-profit organizations all of you looking to use digital in different ways to advance their Organizations priorities So we spent a lot of our time doing all the kinds of things that you probably expected a digital agency does Some of them do research and user experience Ultimately building and delivering and maintaining content driven websites using platforms like Drupal and others transactional web applications and API based applications Native mobile apps the tablet apps those sorts of things and our customers at the time were people like BHP and Big, you know global resources company their global website We built and ran for them people like immigration here in Australia. We built their online translation service booking platform almost like Uber for translators and People like video Xerox who are a B2B B2C printer consumable business and we built their commerce platform So lots of other clients like that and many that much smaller as well, but all of them had one thing In common and this emerged particularly as we were growing as a digital agency working with Drupal and other platforms And that was that their audience had that reasonable perfectly reasonable expectation that their services would be online 24-7 And quite often and increasingly so we found When we were responding to clients briefs responding to tenders to RFPs We were being asked some slightly scary things about what our service level agreements were what our SLAs were Guarantees and not just on hosting websites that we were delivering And asked they were asking us to have developers available in the middle of the night or a short notice at any time of day or night And that was you know pretty scary So we initially we did quite a lot of different things To try and Figure out how the hell we're going to do this 24-7 support stuff when government clients and big companies and some smaller ones ask for it Initially, we were quite naive. We were very focused on what we were good at designing and building cool stuff So we looked to partner on this 24-7 thing and the first place we looked was both inside our client IT teams And also our infrastructure partners people who often would provide hosting or cloud platform providers You know, we were at the time a partner of aquia and also some other platform providers that probably compete with them And we looked to them to help us The challenge I guess that we found was that they were really the majority of cases only interested in supporting the infrastructure that they provided They were not interested and couldn't really build the capacity to properly provide 24-7 support for our application that we were delivering to the client our integrations The we're driving the client site and neither were They willing to support the systems the client had in place that the website depended on Not a lot of our customers didn't really care, you know, what which component they just want 24-7 support for the solution So that was a real problem The other thing that we found ultimately that was missing as we kind of ventured down this path and tried to respond to these requirements was that Those kinds of organizations were not interested in managing incidents relating to Our client's platform at two o'clock in the morning, you know, so good Telling the client their site is down Communicating with them keeping up that communication during an incident to keep them appraised of the progress of an incident Um, you're gathering the right people together from wherever they need to resolve a problem And then providing some timely instant reporting specific to the root cause That wasn't really available that again, they were only really interested in supporting the servers or the platform They provided and not all the other bits around it Of course in this day and age particularly more so today than ever Where we're using microservices and content as a service and this is a service and that is a service The architectural design of the solutions often has perhaps droop at the center of it But perhaps has a number of other web of components rather than one monolithic platform So bringing that support from one vendor is difficult That was a problem for us We also tried the whole devs with a phone by the bed kind of scenario that some of you might be familiar with And you know, we we actually did have a support mobile in each location and we give that to nominated on call staff um That was challenging part not least because we didn't have operations in all parts of the world Um, and so we were asking people to get out of bed But of course devs would do the classic things that um, you know, all devs reasonably do like Turn the alerts off that give you alerts on monitors that tell you whether things are down or not because that alerts are annoying And of course, they might not wake up or they might um heaven forbid go to the pub um, so that wasn't a really idea Point of view for some of these clients The most stupid thing I think we did when we were thinking about support quite often was we would we would price it really high Sometimes to try and scare the client off Scare them away from asking for 24 seven support And at least if we do win it, maybe we'll be able to afford to pay people to work late If the client doesn't want us to work and that was obviously a foolish thing to do But um, it was it was a challenge and it is a challenge for a lot of organizations of a variety of sizes from independent Drupal um digital agencies to um, you know to client side Teams where perhaps they're a large organization and they have an it organization, but not the skills to be able to support the application This question continued to come up in client briefs and tenders and pitches You know, what are you going to do just after midnight when dot dot dot? My website goes down. There's a DDoS attack something's on fire aliens land And this was this question was coming at us from new clients and existing clients and we thought, you know, there has to be another way Um, so as with all good ideas, we went in the pub discuss this gap in the market and agree there was a real problem If jam was was born So a few years ago now we began building this incredible team of developers and cloud architects Um to solve this problem and today we are you know now we're almost six years old Um, we're well regarded in our market and we call ourselves to go to support people for For brands for government organizations and other types of organizations and of course digital agencies um The support is very much the front of our ship which is unusual in our market when you look at um, most people think about cloud and 24-7 but often that's very infrastructure focused and whereas we're we're very focused on Um full stack support and being proactive um, it also Building a team that delivers great full stack support to keep things up and running and live and performing um The combination of developers devops engineers cloud architects that you need Also enable us to do a couple of other things as well So supports our front of our ship, but we're also running a great cloud management and devops service business to behind the scenes um So I just got a share of insight into how we thought about support when we began to develop this offering and you know Create something better than it was on offer at the time We really thought about the value drivers that drive customers decisions and on one side you had the sort of digital agency types and You could probably apply this to anyone who really delivers things for clients not just agencies and software team development teams and consultancies to When we speak to agency mds and digital team mds heads of engineering they're very focused on you know wanting the support for To protect their credibility to make sure their clients are satisfied and happy and you know And they trust them whereas on the client side. We find um people are driven much more around needing support thinking about Like if my site's down I lose revenue Those are obvious ones But also often more often the night's people's reputation and is not wanting to feel that sick feeling in the bottom of their stomach When they realize well the ceo emails them at 10 o'clock at night on friday and tells them they just found the site down Those sorts of things seem to almost cut cut it more So we had a good look at what the market offers At the moment and if you actually look really hard at what the market offers in terms of support Most of it's isolated to providers who support the thing that they sell Um the hosting only is a common one. They'll only support the bit of the hosting they look after Maybe a bit of the app like dribble core or something for example Um support tends to be quite reactive customers experiences tend to be Um Ultimately that um I have to call you know if I'm the customer I have to call you to tell you my things down for you to do anything Very counterproductive Um and sla's tend to be limited just to really super critical issues like you know The thing is literally down and that's it anything else is not pete is Priority to and therefore should be dealt with in business hours, which isn't always satisfying to customers So we thought a lot about how to do it better And there's a few characteristics on the right hand side that we think are the kind of ingredients for a good Enterprise grade support service for digital platforms um The really key one there honestly is um is incident management regardless of who is at fault someone who can just look across A stack monitor it properly get the smoke signals from the right monitoring Um and actually manage an incident from cradle to grave and provide useful information back to the team that perhaps location but in business hours later Those sorts of things are good ingredients for a good support operation um For those of you who don't know it's already a few brands that already trust us are On the screen now a few people most of many of them we work in collaboration with agencies and some of these are on Drupal So Department of Home Affairs we recently worked with some of you will know annex In Canberra fantastic Drupal Drupal Specialist Agency They do a lot more as well We provide the 24 seven support piece um For in fact content 24 seven content support in that particular case for a number of covet 19 websites that some of you might have seen showcased Here today or um in the last session um People like transport for new south wales with another agency that happens to use Drupal and a variety more So the takeaway is really to finish We think in terms of the great ingredients for a strong support operation when you need it are First, you know, you have to recognize particularly if you're an agency and you're you're going after a government tender Or a pitch you can't fake it when there are real SLAs Um, you can't get away with having the phone by the bed Um, so we we often think about what are the value drivers for this client? Why would they pay for support? What will they pay? How important is this platform to them? And what is it that's important? What do we need to focus on? What what constitutes a priority one issue? It doesn't necessarily mean that things down. It could be a really important thing that runs their business isn't working um, so we look at that the other thing is um Misconception that um, you know customers always often ask you to provide developers in the middle of the night and in reality um Having people with development experience is very very very useful In the middle of the night when something's gone wrong But in the majority of cases in the narrow experience of six five six years worth of incident data The majority of issues are not code issues in the middle of the night Frankly, they're not them are very mundane very boring Um, including people forgetting to renew SSL certificates and all that kind of stuff that most of us have seen from time to time Um, so it's important to think about what really needs doing in an emergency What is what does recovery from an incident look like versus actually addressing an underlying problem that's causing an incident? Which could be dealt with during business hours Um, and three, you know, um in many cases we encourage customers when they are looking for that kind of increased vigilance on support and response and ability to resolve issues Think less about going and subscribing to Pingdom to tell you with the sites down And just hoping that the infrastructure provider is somehow going to deal with everything because they're 24 7 because they're not Um, and think more about monitoring each layer of the solution Get that data and then what organization organizational operations are in place to handle alerts from those to be able to go address issues perhaps Potentially before the train hits the car and the thing goes down if possible um So what doing it better looks like for us no more of that phone by the bed bill Full stack monitoring meaningful alerts And from an operational readiness point of view Just good integration between yourselves of the agency perhaps the client and the support team to share information about what changes are happening on that platform ongoing planning for scenarios That that might occur in advance participation in disaster recovery and rollbacks those sorts of things um, so for example, you know In in what we mean by this is from a proactive perspective in terms of getting depth on monitoring If we have an aws based stack Of course based the basics putting in things like cloud watch for getting native data data out of the platform to give us smoke signals on the health of the infrastructure implementing useful tools that tell us um The health of say the kubernetes cluster if that's what we're using and that's the flavor of technology we decide to go with and then on the front end Endpoint monitoring for https uptime But full page load monitors to tell us when things are loading slowly Real user monitoring across a site to show us where bottlenecks are form monitoring to check if forms are working properly All this data is available to a service desk 24 seven ideally in our case It is um that are then able to act on that using Customized runbooks that are designed around the client solution And we forget about you know, who is responsible for what? Um, whether we can just serve the ticket back to the client say sorry The server's agreeing to explain and we've think more about outcomes focused and getting that thing back up regardless of whose fault it is And lastly have a simple support flow design the support process This is literally the simplest support flow that um that we have but we've designed custom support flows with our clients Um, so you've got that kind of obvious, you know manually raised ticket, which is rare or automated tickets that um generated by good monitoring Have a service desk there 24 seven that can respond immediately. Um, our average response time is less than five minutes Um, despite the fact that the best sla we offer for a guaranteed response is 15 minutes Because we're always there 24 seven triage using runbooks and good decision trees and smoke tests Um to be able to establish quickly what issues exist and where And then begin to escalate to that level two technical team and sometimes rarely Perhaps engaging with the agency out of ours or Um engaging with a third party that perhaps provides a booking platform the site's dependent on that's the job of our support So holistic support rather than just based on isolating one particular part of the platform Above all else, of course, um get the right team in place for support Thanks for listening And uh, i'll hand over now to uh to david luke Hi, how's going? I am here representing our sector distribution. Um, and I'd just like to introduce Eddie and daniel from our team who are going to um run us through a few slides just to give a little bit of background and Explain what sector is all about and then i've got luke purcy here From our our bitter rivals and good friends catalyst And we're going to have a little chat at the end about what collaboration around a distribution might mean and and how people who compete in the market can work to get Market a better place. So i'll hand over to eddie and daniel now And they'll run us through some some brief background on sector Choice. Hi there everyone. Um, can you hear us all right? Yep, cool. Okay. So, um, we're here today to talk about um sector and sector is our Distribution that is available on on triple.org and it's um, it's someone we've been working on for quite a few years So we're going to run through a bit of that what it is Some of you might have seen it, but um, we'll give you a bit of an intro there. So Who are we? Dave um to spike before he's the owner and management director He interviewed had a really good interview with address at the start of this triple south And you've seen him on today as well My name's eddie samuel. I'm primary site builder. I'm not a coder But i've got address in UX and accessibility and privacy and supply that too Yep, uh, i'm daniel veza. Uh, i'm a senior developer here at sparks and I also I am the sector technical leader Um, so yes sparks has been around for a while. Um, not to say that we're old but we've been around for a while And we've been working across different, uh Sectors as well in private sector non-profits Community and quite a lot of government as well. So that's who we are So why did we start building a distribution and then why did we actually share it out as well? Well, um, Like many of you you've probably built a site and then you've built another site And there might be some similarities between that site and by the third or fourth time you're building a site You're realizing you're doing 70 or 80 percent of the exact same thing again and we thought Quite early on that. Why don't we try and do this properly instead of having to reinvent the wheel every time? So it's a it's a distribution as it says. Um, it's got a whole lot of pre configured stuff that comes out of it and We feel that it's a it's a very iterative product. We've been working on And it's just been really good for us to be able to start. Um at a at the same point, which is really good for people who are coming new into the business, um, or people who are just picking it up from triple to all that You know, we're not having to explain things differently every time. Um, it's really helpful in that way And the the sort of pre-configuring we do does align very well to Majority of our clients if it's government or product sector, they need a brochure page. They need a news section They need a resources system these sorts of things. So there's a lot of pre-configuration there that goes on You can have a look on um triple to orbit and uh on the project there a sector. There is a demo site with some demo content And we're updating the code base pretty regularly It's obviously a dribble nine release, but sector goes back to triple seven and then various incarnations back to triple six as well So you can have a look at the demo site at demo dot sector and z or just the sector and z side as well. So We just wanted to make things more efficient and a better solid platform Yeah A lot of this came around from content. Well, we understood that, you know, content really is king We hear that banded around but it really is and when that comes down to content editing And keeping your content editors happy and fulfilled. We think that's really important I'll show you a bit more of that stuff under the hood in a few slides time but We just wanted people to be able to get in and as I say have these Regular content types for things like news or content the same way that the fields would sit for each And it's been really useful for some clients who have clones of the site and or a you know They use it as a as a base product and have flavors or variants But the underlying structure is the same and that's really useful for content editors who work across multiple sites but You know the field names and taxonomies are consistent too. So it's really helpful We talk about second sector ecosystems. I'll let Daniel jump in here about this Cool. So, yeah, when we when we started building the dribble eight version of sector in particular We really tried to change our mindset to not just have a distribution just the code and And that's kind of it. We really wanted to focus on The editorial experience and also a whole like it says a whole ecosystem So sector isn't just a standalone thing that you install and then walk away and do your own thing with The whole time I mean you can do that But the whole time you can install things like events or contacts or just one module Like Eddie said, uh, once you've built an event content type You're probably going to build the same one again or at least very similar Based on the requirements, you're going to have a map. You're going to have, you know A start and end date. So, you know, why click the buttons every single time Now you can just install the sector event module for example with composer install it and you'll have your Event content type already there with everything you need And part of this opening like open sourcing and the sector ecosystem is also open sourcing our documentation So this is really valuable at the sector.nz website. We've got update guides You know justifications on why we did things how our roles work So, you know, we can onboard new staff members or we can onboard new clients and if they have questions or You know, we can even remind ourselves, you know, why do we do things this way or You know, how the things set up we've we've got everything open. Everyone can see it and it means, you know When you go to dripple.org and you want to use sector You're not on your own. You've got our backing and our documentation Um to go with us and also of course the slack channel where most of us are around as well Yeah, I think I mean we know why dripple.org works with the community idea about sharing back And this is you know, just an extension of that and the the open Concepts there. It's also really useful for developers too if we have developers You know new developers or seasoned developers having I think What pretty much all of our websites are built on sector. Yeah, everything with us five years or so. Yeah, so So there's a the learning curve for figuring out a site for a new developer or for someone to learn leave or emergency or DR sort of stuff There's some really good consistencies, which is obviously efficiency. So which is obviously You know better for the client and better for the staff too. So All that sort of stuff just makes sense And we put a lot of effort into it and um, it's nice now to see people picking up sector and Using it and asking questions as well, which is really why we're all in this, isn't it? Cool So, um, we talked about the sort of what you get when you download it If you download it, um, there's some you can download it with vdev or you can just, you know, whatever Approach you want to Install it with but as you see we've got some pre-configured content types and displays We use like display suite is used quite a bit But for each of those, you know things like the pages the news is resource, you know What are the the consistent requirements that your clients or clients have for these sorts of content types? And how do how do we how do we have those? So there's those are set up there um, we have Sort of what we call the sort of the building blocks here, which is sort of you know blocks on the home page Don't amp where you taxonomical driven views or static views That sort of stuff have all those sort of sitting views sitting there with with Sort of vanilla stars, even if they're not enabled as a view they might be there sitting as a disabled view, which is I got a specific display mode or a use for case as well We use sort of page variants I heard someone talking about this in the one of the earlier Australian events as well You know page variants being a home page or a landing page or a section page And again the language and non-glitcher that we use across these is very consistent So it's really easy to pick up these sorts of things And they have different display outputs for that Um, we have like a content elements page, you know, like we look at all the standard HTML elements and we We generally structure those in a very similar way across Not to say that we don't expand everything for every website We have additions on top of that but the basic ones are fairly consistent and that's obviously a really good thing for accessibility and usability testing that we know that what we've got there works and we're compliant with it You know apart from things like design layers and contrast or things like that, but structurally It comes there out of the box Um, so some of the other stuff that comes in the sector starter kit. Um, there's some sample content So this is a an extra configuration stage on the on the sector Yeah, the sample hunting comes out of the box, right? Yeah, so there's basic search and stuff there However, you want to interact that with elastic or search api or solar as well There's media managers and again, we've got sort of consistent approaches for images documents and videos Not recraving different fields across different sites at all the same Metadata we set that up with some of the basic etio stuff for Meta and og and been looking at Jason ld stuff as well lately But a big thing here is a preconfigured user roles. We have consistent Names for our user roles and the permissions across sites and that's really useful when you're dealing with You know 20 30 40 50 sites that we all know that a content administrator has these generic sort of roles and a content animals content editor has lesser ones. So that's a real easy way to Troubleshoot clients problems as well. Are you logged in as a wrong role? It's not like a unique role per site all the time And just things like preconfigured text formats for ck data and stuff like that You know a basic versus full html and what the permissions and roles set around that So all that sort of stuff that you're not having to go through for testing and for Go live checklist and things like that. We're trying to get rid of that pain. Yeah, it's also The starter kit is also very iterative across releases When we finish a new site, you know, we'll say on what didn't work For the site or what did work? And if there's things that are generic enough and we can see that have a lot of value We'll try and fold them into sector as well or or an add-on if they don't really belong On the starter kit. But yeah, the goal really is to keep contributing back And just building the best product the way we can We'll just have a quick show here. This is just a single page You can see more of these on the the sector and zed on the case studies page But as I said non-profits government tourism brochures sites There's bird of the year there, which is interesting Gatsby one which you might have heard our other colleagues talk about That is a super configured web form and it's got something like 50,000 submissions over the week Week or so like that. It happens each year. So that's a Quite a nice to the headless Gatsby and So that's pretty cool. I've got some verification processes government sites like the ombudsman which has got some bespoke Again, web form and security Things around it and then various other government sites, but there's lots more. We thought we'd just show you back off the sector side so What we might do is ask you guys if you've got any questions to chuck them into the panel In the meantime, we've talked about sort of the shiny glossy side I thought we'd just show you a couple of you know geeky snapshots of some of the stuff we're working on because Like all of us we're trying to figure out how people do things and that's a good thing If you want to download sector and look how we do it That always increases your knowledge about how other people do things I remember doing that with things like commas kickstarter and lightning and thunder and guvcms and all these sorts of ones You know see how other people do things So one of the add-ons we've got for sector is called sector content order and we've always found harking back to this Keep the content. Yeah, just happy It's very vanilla and if you gave it no love They would give it no love and people wouldn't know where content is So we just added a couple of extra things to A process and this is really good for migration sites too is that if there's a bigger site and you've got a A migration job or a review content review site. You need a bit more You need some more tools to be able to do that So we've added some things that appear on the side there some some text fields Some checkboxes and then incorporated those back into just the back end content views Which gives people some confidence that stuff has been reviewed or there's a review date And what status things are in as well of their in draft or in progress Etc or need to be replaced. So that's a nice add-on that often gets added to sites bigger sites for clients This is a media audit So this again is giving more love to these back end audit screens the media one is very vanilla You sort of see the the thumbnail and the title and maybe an updated date, but we've added some more stuff here around Size and width alt text, which is really good for auditing accessibility at a basic level anyway Credits and captions things like videos and stuff Come up in here as well, but there's a couple of other things we're looking into at the moment around media directories and assigning content into media into Media ones. So here we go here We've got an option here to Choose a directory, which is actually just text on any term and then it's actually creating this path in the file system This is still early days yet, but this is really good for again auditing and Just you know keeping things in places, which means they can be audited And that's been really interesting too. The other thing we've been working on top of this is if you unpublish content We've all got that problem with as soon as you upload content Upload media or files within media they're published and accessible Some clients need to have embargoed or access controls on those So what we've got at the moment is if a media entity is unpublished the corresponding file will be stored in the private system so just some ideas around trying to Make things more secure and give more confidence back to content editorial processes Another thing here is just really sort of visually highlighting unpublished content and some additional tabs and love to the media work or content workflows Process as well just sort of seeing really visually what's happening For that content and that's something we're working on too for media as well Because as I've been saying we've been looking at unpublished and published media more than Drupal cores Just standard approach to it Also with our access and workbench access So Lots of things going on in the sector I think we'll just jump in here and Does anyone got any questions? So If no one's got any questions I think we can pass back, but long story short don't have a look at sector.nz. You can look at the sector's astro on Drupal.org You can Play and explore and good feedback. You can also see it's on the sector Drupal Slack channel as well. Yeah. Yeah, definitely try it out. We'd love to have other people You know trying it out. We've had other companies Come talk to us after having tried sector and yeah, we're always we're always keen to hear other people's perspectives And you know what they like and what they didn't like Thanks very much Thank you Eddie and Daniel And and in line with that those thoughts around the the contribution and Governors ecosystem, I'd just like to introduce a Luke Percy from Catalyst I'll let you say a few words about yourself there and then maybe we'll have a chat about how it works Collaborating Yeah, thanks Dave. Um, so Yeah, look our you know the cms industry and you know is is Getting a lot more complex and our market our clients are definitely coming to us with you know wanting more value add and A distribution like Sector really gives us a bit of a head start when Going into these these builds and you know our team at Catalyst. We are You know huge advocates for you know well maintained and local open source projects like this and I think What you guys have done and within your approach and the iteration Really does help that community kind of build on that knowledge base and we're sharing ideas You'll see that in our Merge requests and things coming through the sector and we may not agree But we're having good conversation When we're developing our sites and it only just bolsters our capability and in the community. So Yeah, I think it's it's It's definitely something that we're going to be learning more about And and these and introducing more features from various clients The project that we're working on the moment is quite large And we'll be taking sector On our own You know CICD platform and Seeing how that works and maybe contribute back that as well. So it'll be I'm really looking forward to seeing where we can take it Nice that that's awesome. I mean we We've at Sparks we've long had a belief in open source and and not just from an altruistic perspective I genuinely believe that publishing in the open makes you better. You have to do your best work You know, you've got you access the galaxy brain and And and people bring you solutions. You could never come up with yourself It's always a challenge though. I don't come from a dev background. I'm a I'm a project manager and And a business guy And and always it used to be that when we take over sites Or even look at sites that we built a couple of years ago The developer was always like ah someone else did this We have the the pre developer is the is the the catchphrase in our place I'll be interested to know what your experiences were like with your dev team who are Stable high performing Drupal Drupal Drupal people at their best, you know, yeah, was the any resistance? How did how did they go taking on Someone else? Yeah, exactly and we've like and and the developers do like My team we have a mix of mindsets, you know, we've got Like you're saying we've got, you know top industry guys, you know, and then we have new people And these uh mindsets. Yeah, some of them like to play with code and would like to build things from scratch But what this offers them is to build the fun stuff from scratch we can fit that in Rather than doing everything from scratch, you know, like your your You're doing your news article components. You're doing, you know Every project just seems to be why are we doing this again when we could be doing that call integration with Uh, you know, this third party service that they can throw away and not use because it's on their web platform, you know so It gives us that opportunity to spend the time on what Is super valuable to our clients and and give them that value add and um It gives us a a nice solid, you know, uh common Like with you guys in our market as well You are delivering to the neighbors of that agency as well and We now have this common ground that hey look if they do because it's open source They own it, you know, and they could move vendor would see it and if it's sector we know it and we can share back again, you know It's um, you know as as as it happens in there in this business It's it's small in New Zealand and we end up seeing the same code, you know, we every three years We're seeing something that, you know, someone else has worked on and um, and then back again in the circle Uh, it happens. So having that common language That was mentioned by Eddie, you know, it's it's, you know, it'll be quite beneficial Yes, I think back to the early days of Drupal and that lack of vendor lock-in was a real a really big selling point especially to the public public sector Who'd been burnt by proprietary CMS's over the the preceding 10 or 15 years but then with with Drupal 7 and the proliferation of modules and the The range of experience that was out there in terms of who was doing Drupal dev and the mix of Drupal and The the propensity Drupal 7 had to get mixed up with custom php That super frustrated us and so to get back to those days of People work with us because they want to not because they have to I think that that having a good common distribution really does reduce that vendor lock-in And that was the deliberate thing from us. There's there's very little proprietary code in in sector. It is largely using mainstream Drupal modules the most supported the most easily maintained modules and so Like you say the ability to pass sites around The sites that we work on last for ages probably too long sometimes That's nice that you can go back to them and maintain them. Yeah Yeah I think it's it's super exciting for us That we've got like you say our neighbors working on big projects Bringing fresh views fresh fresh approaches and challenges to that code base So, yeah, I think that I'd be interested to hear kind of Where you've had any thoughts about the future and and what you'd like to see Yeah, like I think Part of this project we're currently doing Will require quite an accessible site And working more in the accessible areas of of of sectors such as area labels and customizing things and Looking at the templates and how you might you know do that and then there was good good sort of foundational accessibility in there that we can build on and also You know content security policies Things like that and seeing how we can work those and these are going to all come up Over the few months that we're we're on this and as we learn more about it We also like to use it as a good education tool for our more entry-level staff and Getting them sort of building, you know and getting used to As builders or or developers, you know, we kind of got a little split there But they can all talk the same language start learning on the same same sort of foundation Yeah, nice Awesome. I can see that we're just getting the hurry up on the clock here to wrap up our session So I'd love to I'd love to continue this conversation with you over a beer or and everyone out there in the audience as well Yeah, sounds good. But yeah, sure. So thanks. Thanks for jumping in and joining us on the session Thanks for coming on board the sector journey and I think it um You know, I come away from this conference always feeling energized and Super inspired about Drupal and what we can do And looking forward to working with with you at Catalyst and pushing sector forward with their energy Thank you. No, us as well Nice, awesome. Awesome. Thanks. Wonderful. And thanks to Eddie and Daniel for the presentation. So good stuff Hit us up in the message hub or you can always follow up at sector.nz. If you've got any questions want to give it a go Criticism we'll take it. You know, we love feedback and we love to know what we can do better. So Thanks very much everyone