 Welcome to the Tuesday, September the 6th, 2022 meeting of the My Peelier Design and Review Committee. Committee members and staff can introduce themselves. Benjamin Cheney, Member. Meredith Crandall, Staff. Steve Everett, Member. Martha Smirsky, Member. Hello, everybody. Hello, everybody. Unless anything, anybody has anything else to add at this point, we will let Meredith review the remote meeting procedures. Just a quick note. Do you have the back. Speaker that points to the back on. Okay. Awesome. Yeah. Thanks. All right. So this is really just going to be for. Anybody who's watching the orca media because we don't have any remote meetings or members of the public right now. So for anyone viewing this meeting via orca media, you can participate in tonight's design review committee meeting via the zoom platform, either using the link shown here. You can type that right into your web browser and it should bring you right into the meeting and I'll let you in. 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Then the meeting will need to be continued to a time and place certain I will hand the meeting back over to the chair. If everyone set a chance to look at the agenda do I hear a motion to approve the agenda. So moved. And I second it. All in favor of the agenda speak your name. Ben. Martha. And Steve, the agenda is approved. And without any further ado. Once you're ready, Sandy. We'll have you come describe your additional features on the application. Okay. At this point, I'm not even sure where the application is, but I don't therefore. As we were refining exactly how the boiler was fitting in with the plumbing in the building, we realized that it had to. Change this orientation and that it needed more height. So, and they knew hot water heater would not fit in the existing roof so I've asked to change the shape of the boiler shed, which would just be bringing the rest of the roof up so the whole roof would be raised. And also, thank you in doing that we realized that the boiler, the pellet silo does not need to be on the side of the shed but rather it could be in the back. So, that is shown on the floor plates. So we've got things are a little bit out of the order from how I had submitted them. I can also show it on screen. Okay, that would be helpful. So, there you go. So the pellet where we had gotten it for permitted before was next to these existing porch. The street is off to the right of the building, the front. This is at the back of the building to the front of the buildings to the right as well. And so this just kind of shields the silo better from the street. And it also actually makes it easier to use the access doors where the boiler is going to be. So, can you go to the side elevation? Yeah, so the pellet silo was blocking those access doors. We made those a little bit larger. It's kind of immaterial, not much larger. So, what was previously approved was the silo kind of below the shed and only half of the roof being raised. Maybe what will go in that space now? A car parks in the cars park, some cars park in there. It's really just paved area. Yeah, it's not a designated parking space. And you're raising the full boiler. Right, if you go back to the drawing below that in the handout. And now the whole, we had, we had the originally asked that the left side be left as is, which is about 18 inches lower. The other thing that is noticeable is we were allowed to drop the silo down. So this silo is a good four feet lower than we had it before, which will also help mask it. It's not like it goes underground or the table. It's actually about a foot. It's at the bottom of that square, which is called the utter where the, sorry, if you go back down Meredith. Yeah, at the bottom of that it goes left into the building enters the building and then rises up to the boiler level. It's a vacuum tube and a pellet tube. And it goes right across the ground basically as it comes. Yeah, we would, in case it in a, something hard, some kind of pipe. I thought one of the reasons you're raising the silo was because of the water. Yeah, we realized that every component in the silo and the other in the pipes, they're all water tight. So they actually can be below. There's actually even a shut off gate inside the silo. So that they would even further protect the, you know, 10 tons of pellets inside from getting wet. In a flood event. Yeah, so it's not going to float away it's bolted down and if there are any pellets in it would be quite heavy. The rate where Meredith's hand is up a little bit higher now, like even rate, even a little bit lower than that that that's about where the flood level is is right right around the top of the ball art. So, that it was really no problem to let the silo be below. Flood level. Anyways, I'm not asking to drop it. But we are asking to move it to the back and we're asking permission to raise the rest of that roof up. Yeah. We did it through a taller silo isn't they came in its big drop it. I know it doesn't mean we send back to you guys because clearly it would be less noticeable if it's shorter. Right. But we have to do and we give them the same. The silo to the rear. Anyway, different step back. And that was enough significant enough to. And again, how, how much are you anticipating right raising the shed group. 18 inches. So it would have the exact same shape that it does now it just would go up 18 inches. Originally we're only asking to raise half of it, but it's still behind the main, the main building completely. Yeah. Go up above the main building, not not at all. So on the right on that drawing that's on the screen, you can see the adjacent porch, the porch is higher than the shed roof. And then that that where the hand is now is the top of the man start roof and the bottom of the man start roof with a significant cornice is that one. Yeah, where the hand is now. So it's all well below the mass of the building. This is the, this line back here is the rear. Yeah, what we call the low man start roof. Yeah, it's a, it's a one story building. Yeah. It's higher than the silo to now. Um, no, it's the windows that but maybe they will have some, yeah, they may have discussion about other price. Any questions on the other portions of the silo and shed. Okay. Next on the list is your windows. It is. And that's the biggest request for tonight. So there are how many windows there's so many windows on this building. They're replacing something like 37 proposing to change out 37 of them, but those are the rectangular ones and ones in the back. I think there are more than 60 windows in the whole building. And they may be closer to 70 or 80 I have an inventory of them but my papers got spread out so I don't have them right now. But the anyways, you can see on the elevations that the attempt is to make to only replace windows that are rectangular and in the back of the building. So the truly character defining windows that have round tops and face the road and are visible from either angle as you approach the building. They would be restored. And we have a contract already started to we're in queue to get them restored over a, I think it'll be a three year plan, but we're already doing that and they all have interior storms already. Except for a couple on the back, but they, they so the owners making concentrated effort to give back to the community where they, they can really have an impact. The rectangular windows are able to replace pretty much in kind the we were suggesting using all tracks for the outside but it's a narrow profile so it will look almost exactly like the original windows and they were one over one so that's not an issue. So I'm just talking first, because I think these are the most important windows on the front and the two public sides of the building. That they would, those are the only ones that would be replaced ours with an R on them. So all of the, the first level or segmental arches and the upper ones are actually semi circles semi semi arch windows those would all be restored. At the back of the window. Those are basically impossible to see from the public realm. The, the side over the right but yet but next to the you now you can hear really get a sense of how small the boiler shed is compared to the building. The, those back windows, you can't even see from school street because of the church blocks them. And they are in that view there four of them are rectangular to our angle top windows and I have a picture of what they look like from the inside those two are angle tops. Right now and we're proposing that they be exchanged out for rectangular windows. It does have a photo from the inside of one of what the angle tops are there's one to their to their one on the rear and then two or three on the three on that side. So it's a total of six. Yeah, six are angle top now but the rest are all rectangular. And the picture that you're looking for this one is the second floor window yeah, that one. And it gives you an idea of how bad the shape, the condition is that the windows. That's what the inside looks like. You can't even see the hole in the window, the glass, the glass has a hole this big in it. So, the idea is so that most of those storms already. Sorry, most of those windows have outside storms which are already rectangular topped, they've been that way for probably 40 years. And the idea would be just to get take the storms off and, and then just fill in discreetly following the example of the one that was always built as a rectangular back on the. Back to the west side, Meredith, yep, where the porch is. So that window right there was is a bathroom window in it was always a rectangular window like from the inside it's a flat dormer ceiling. And it's clear if you look carefully at the outside that it was always a rectangular window so we would copy that one around the back of the building and just fill in the triangle. And then fill in with with the rectangles. Again, you can't see it from school street on the back is the river, and then on the east side of the building is a big tree. So, you just, you can't see them. Okay, from anywhere. Wood trim to look like the panel. Yeah, I would can't thank you a panel. You can leave it recessed when you replace the other window against stops you could even put a wood panel against the stops where the glass was and then insulated on the interior. Oh yeah, the bathroom one that is existing has a horizontal piece of black trim that matches the two coming down and so and then the train is the tip of right. Yes. Yes, that's that. The tip of them is painted green. Yeah, you can just see the, the small corner of the recessed panel. Yeah, and that's what we're planning to do. So this is, we're all on the same page there. But it's just prohibitively expensive to replace them with angle top pieces and those windows need to be operable. They shouldn't just be fixed so for a lot of reasons that made sense to try to replace them. If I could go on, if you go to the back. Do you mind going scrolling down Meredith, I'm just gonna stop share for a second. I can scroll a little faster. I'll share again which page it was that you were on it. Oh, sorry, I thought you meant to another page. It's all right. We give people where to go if you scroll too quickly. So if you go down just a little to the next row of drawings, there's the back of the building and see on the third floor. There are the three Rs on windows and the far right one is a tiny door. So those windows, both a historic preservation consultant and I believe are not original to the building. We actually don't even think those dormers are original to the building. I'm trying to figure out we don't know where they came from but you can see in this picture that they are very random. And one of them has muntins in it. It seemed like they use salvage when they made those windows. They are crazy and efficient like just shaking. One doesn't even have a storm. Basically they have socks trying to shim them hold them tight. And then the far right hand on the third floor is a door that is very small. It's like two feet by six foot something. And we're able to replace it with a single it has its two lights wide and five high but we could replace it with just a single light that seemed to be better. It's not again we don't think it's original. None of the hardware on the door matches the rest of the hardware in the building. Was the door meant to be an egress. It's, it can't be an egress because it's only two feet wide by, I mean, it would count as an egress window, but not an egress door. Is there an egress from the third floor additional. Well, that's why we the whole sprinkler issue is in a separate department right now. Basically the building cannot get a fire escape. So, there's no way to do it. So, it's so I suffices to say it's not an egress door but the idea is to improve it so it actually is airtight, and can continue to be used it's used now, as there's a little roof deck up there that's not shown that the tenant has access to. I don't know if, rather than do a one over one double hung if you could do like a casement window that would still allow. Oh, it's actually a door hinges and doorknob. Yeah, it's two feet wide and six foot something. You're going to replace that with a window. No replace it with another door with another able to get we just got a custom door order. So, it's a. So that was the door referred to is that 31 37 windows plus one door. Yeah. And that and that I'm just trying to figure out exactly what the site is a tiny kind of door. Does the replacement door have a glass in it. Yeah, it would be a single light door. It's basically full glass light kind of keeping with the rest of the windows up there that would be one over once. And I'm sorry I don't have a better picture of it but it is that hard to find that like you, you can't, you can't get to it. Okay, see it from the ground. Trying to see if. If you go back up. The balcony. Yep. And that's where the door is, but you can see how it's basically impossible to see it. And that balcony doesn't go to the set of stairs. No, it doesn't. It's just it's not an egress. Well, that's Audra had put in we were looking at the chimney since we further up. Do you want to put in a Google the street view from the street street. And I'm wondering if we could. Yeah, you can I can see it. I can see it. It's on the right there. That's bad. Yeah. But I mean that's, that's, that's the kind of view you get from the only place I think you can see it right. Or from maybe a rooftop over here if solar panels. Yes. And then it's important to zoom out because you're not your view isn't focused on that one object you're looking at the whole landscape. Yep. So, yeah, the actually the ladder is up to see the lab that's the only way to get up there. So, I'm happy to answer any questions about those windows. Yeah. I think your diagrams here shows windows in porch area. Are you anticipating changing those now. Do you mind going back to the elevations of the building I think they're the most useful. Anything with an R on it we're asking for permission to replace those side porch windows. Yep, those are that that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, that's on the first floor in the back of the building. Yeah. I think they're just going to be rectangles. Yeah, they're just going to be switched. Yeah. Well, one of them looks like it is shaped. That one has a modern out stuff exterior storm on it. And what you're seeing is the, the much later applied exterior storm. The window itself is rectangular. I don't see why they put that exterior storm on. Maybe they had it from a different window. It's really bizarre. And there are no other storms that look like that on the building. There was probably one kicking around in the basement from somewhere else and used whatever it doesn't fit. It doesn't work. It doesn't close. It's not just used whatever they could find at the moment. It's not functional. I see on your window descriptions here that at the bottom it says a nailing fin, which indicates to me that it's being put into me. Yeah, I would have to refer to the contractor who's doing this but I think they're going to be ripping off the nailing fins so that they can get a full type fit up against, and then ceiling, because they didn't get the things on. They didn't want to be the description because they make the window without enabling them. Well, I asked if we could order it without it and I was told you just break them off. Oh, okay. Because evidently these come only with the fin on. Okay. But the, I was trying to avoid the glass size being reduced. It was very important to try to keep the glass size the same. So they're actually taking out, they're not taking out all of the jams, but they're going right to them. And then this is a replacement unit. So it has pretty thin. So it's not, it's not changing the glass size. Yeah, they only give you like a quarter of an inch dimension because they want an eighth of an inch on all sides, depending on how square the opening. That's right. And you have to just hope for squareness. And we've actually measured each opening like three times to make sure that things will fit. But I think, I think that I can report that accurately. I'm not intending to use the nail fin. But there's no place to, for it to go in. Right. That just made me nervous when I saw that. Without the fence, they basically just for an insert from the inside out to the exterior casing. You actually take the bash out and you screw through the GM. As far as I understand it. Right. You take the window sash out and screw through the jam. And then you, yeah, because the old original windows with the sash would mount up against the actual exterior case. Yep. So with these, you just strip everything off on the inside and then this one day as a unit goes up against that case. Right. Yep. As long as you don't have male fins in the way. Correct. Yep. The upper right hand. Yes. You're anticipating replacing those second floor windows. Yep. Only the rectangles on facing the street. So the bottom windows have a very shallow segmental arch. And the top windows are actually a semi circle at the top. And all of those will be where we're. To the left of the door. I think they're the same size as you can see. But they're actually the same size as you can see. So it's really worth the effort. Is willing to restore. It's really pricey to get the arched windows. They're very expensive. And they're definitely character. I mean, it would be harder to get them. You can't get them as an insert. A replacement. You know, with a thinner. Well, they come with a fixed upper sash, so you can get them, but they're super expensive. And it's nice to keep as many restored as you can. And this restoring will include fixing the weights which are broken on at least two-thirds of the windows. Well, you want to get rid of that weight because you want to insulate that space. That's a, yeah, that's a question. But there are a lot of windows with cracks. There are a lot of windows that the interior storms aren't on or they're not fitting. So all of that's being fixed. There's one more small item first chimney and roof. So this application, the question of a possible conversion doesn't go before DRC to the apartment. This is on the right. Yeah, the apartment doesn't, but the only thing that is, is this idea of adding one exhaust fan. Oh, yeah. So I just need to bring it up because it's in the recline. So we were proposing adding one exhaust fan to that east side of the building. And I, there's a page with it. And then I have a cut sheet after the whole window. And there's an event would go back out a little bit right there. And I, and I submitted a cut sheet as well. It's just a standard orange, black, black that would just go right there. It's as high as up as I could get it without getting it into the trim. It seemed to me the best compromise on the outside of the building. It could go right up against the, the soffit, but then it would be disturbing the brickwork, which seems to me an important defining character. So I, I'm suggesting dropping it down a little bit to where the hand is on the trolley. And this is on the side headed north, right? What we're calling the east side, it's where the, right below this arrow is where the meters are. So this is a great picture, this one that I've given earlier for the windows. It's way up there. Yeah. Where we had originally talked about getting, putting the condenser here on the wall. And the meters, you can't see behind the bay, but it's just up there. And this is not certain, but we're trying to pave the way in case it does happen. We don't, I, I'm trying not to come back multiple times, although this is my third visit. Do you think you have any right left adjustment in that so that it might be more centered between the, the brace and the wall? It's really a question of where it is in the, the joists and maybe we have to lower that ceiling in there, but it kind of hate to, because then it will have to have another sprinkler. But we'll see. Is that, if that's important, we definitely encourage you to. I trust you to do the right thing. It's more just a, is there a, there was much as you can think about it. Tuck it into that band. So try to make it go towards the bay window. I think so. Okay. That's fair. Any other questions on the then? The last item totally got me set by surprise. It is extremely hard to get up to the high roof. And I went up very bravely. I thought, I thought I was going to die. And I went up and I saw that a, the roof is in terrible condition. And there were a whole lot more events and they're actually two pipe vents that I don't even know what they go to that are extremely old. So there were a lot of these, these penetrations that from an energy retrofit point of view are a nightmare because they let cold air down their avenues for water. You just, you can't insulate your, your envelope. Of these. So I'm not talking about the one that's on the lower, the middle roof. I wrote lower roof. It's, there's one that is more dominant down there. You can see it if you look at the, like the image in your packet. Yeah, and it captures it kind of. It's also, I think, visible from the, some of the ground photos. From the rear, yeah. In this photo, you can see the one that I'm talking about is, I'm not accepting this one up here is one of the, we're hoping to take down. So, of the four that are on the high roof. So the high roof is different from the other two roofs, they are shallow slope and they're already covered with TPL. The high roof is crushed stone on asphalt. And it goes to a separate drain. And there are these four. And I would say of them, the top one on the sheet labeled recent propane chimney is recent the bricks do not match the mortar does not match. And we are hoping to remove that propane hot water heater and take up a propane after building. So that chimney will very quickly become archaic. And it's not historic. It's my mind is not even contributing. It's actually a negative up there. Then right below it is the large rectangular chimney, which is in, in poor condition. And it doesn't have a cap or anything. And then the other two that are closer to the tower that one of the bottom left are in good condition. But our thought is to take all four off simply to clean up the roof and to be able to insulate it so the only way to insulate that roof is through a hatch, which I don't show on the drawing but it's great. So you can see it from the picture. Yeah. And when you go in, it's really not more than like, it's like 28 inches high at the perimeter and goes down to eight inches in the middle. It's a pretty unpleasant space to be in. And we have to stuff it full with sunglasses is really the best way to deal with it. And at that point, it's a real liability of water leaks down into it from the from the roof. And at this point, I think the owner is talking about replacing the roof in kind. There's a small possibility we'll change the material to TPO, but what is the TPO. I knew it is Teflon poly opal and it's now called thermal plastic. And it looks like that. Thank you. Yes. Does that last longer than the 60 mil membranes. Well, this has this one might be 60 million this one has at least used to have a 70 year warranty for commercial buildings. 70. Yeah. Wow. So it would be it's what I usually recommend I've done it on residential buildings there's no warranty on residential by the way, but it's still the same product. It's still the same solution. But it's a good roof, and it's more walkable than the stone on asphalt. It's a real problem. So, I suppose that's not part of this application tonight to change that material. But the owner would really like to get some guidance on the chimneys because right now that that route that attic is scheduled for insulation in early October. And we've got to name on it. It's getting cold. It's coming. So the way I feel about it is I really looked hard walking from the library towards 138 towards around about you can only see one or two on the west side, the ones that are in good condition. For not more than really like 30 feet. There's a very small space on the sidewalk. I made a diagram where you could walking in the other direction. You can see the Yeah, I did that. That chart. Yep. And then to walking in the other direction from the roundabout towards this country, you can see the from page in me for a lot longer than you can see that the big chimney that's hidden in the middle. But that is relatively, I don't know I think I wrote there. So four to three, you can see chimneys and one to two, you can see chimneys, right? Yeah, four to three. I wonder if it's a little span from the main stream. That was really the extreme. It's just appearing now beyond the medical field and then in position number two. And then the same thing was disappearing before and then disappearing. From all the photos here, you can barely see them. And even from the rear, when all the rest of the detail on the building, I would not call the chimneys a character defining feature. And I just have been working on the building since June and I didn't even know they were up there. I was completely shocked when we went up there. They aren't mentioned in the historic registered listing. Just saying they aren't part of the description of the building. So, in terms of anything that's no longer being used obviously because of technology and newer heating systems, anything that's not being used is not a character defining feature. I don't have any problem with it going away. None of them are used. Does anybody else on the committee have any issues or suggestions regarding the chimneys. And if you were penetrations in the roof of the building, the better off for a sustainable roof and also for purposes of insulating. Would they put rigid on top of the, when they do the new roof, would they use rigid on top or just go on. And how they went up there. They were, we're going to be averaging between eight and 28 so let's say an average, what's it 2010 18 inches of, we're going to do two inches of foam, and then fill the rest with cellulose so I think there's a pretty decent our value up there. I mean, it certainly would be a great idea to add a couple inches more on the top to have continuous installation, but no one's even discussed that yet I should write down and know. Two inches of rigid on top of the roof sheathing. And then the membrane or whatever the TPO on top of that. That's all we've ever done. Yeah, I'm going to write it down. And then below that you can just cram that full of dense pack. Yep. Yep, by eliminating any boy we don't have a sprinkler up there. That would be for it becomes a real liability if, if it does leave that would be one huge massive wet less blanket, really scary terms of way, the image of the building and then trying to get it out, like how do you get that out. I do have a question from one of Meredith pictures here. There's a chimney, but what is this thing right here. I don't know if I could show it. I think that that's the tower. Yeah, that's the, I think that's the tower for that. So let me scroll back. If you look at the front of the building, you see the power up there. So that is. That's this chimney and that's the tower in the front. Okay, that's part of the building. Yeah, yeah, yeah, going in. Okay. No, they're suggested to that. Yeah. I can't even get into that. If they put two inches of rigid on the top they actually can do a seam seal between the sheets, which will further eliminate any potential leaking. That's very helpful. Hold my head up higher. I'll mention that. Thank you. It's just an extra backup. Yeah. Any other questions regarding any of these components that are being proposed. Comments questions suggestions from anyone. Steve, I don't want to be accused of surprising anyone. So we had an issue happen today on the job site that I do need to know if they're you about. I can do that afterwards or I can do it now, whichever you prefer. It's kind of a big deal. Okay. The airlock. None of us noted after three different visits and various measurements that the slab the granite slab has shifted out of plump. So it's not level it's off by an inch. And the door design because it's seasonal. The door, there's no threshold to level things off. If you think about it, there's two side panels coming down on either side of the door, and there's no way to get them level. Because is there any way to re level the slab. I really know. No, I mean they're massive. That's an eight foot by eight foot by probably four to eight inches deep of in the walls are I mean, and then everything else surrounded is is inputs. And from underneath has its own foundation of granite. So, so there's a whole inch difference between the two panels are either side of the door, and they went through over and over about what they could do. And the best thing they can do is to drill additional holes down and then add a piece under the, the one that's higher up to get it to level. And and or cockpit and Alex Tolstoy is an historic preservation consultant he used to be with Vermont preservation trust for many years. He worked with Eric, and he just looked at me and he said, this shouldn't be removal. This should not be a seasonal airlock. And after I sat here and talked about the seasonality of it. I feel kind of sick to bring this up. But it's a really big issue, and we can do it and still make it removable, but there will be more scars on the floor and when it gets removed every spring. What's going to have to happen is there's going to be more stuff on the floor, more holes in the floor probably. And then, when it goes back and it has to be probably recall every year, and to get it to be stable. Because the door, can they not use a compressible foam if it's only an entry compressible foam underneath the ceiling, they went through their whole vocabulary of how they could solve it. And Alex actually whipped off this letter. This can be tabled for a couple of weeks, I told them that they may not be able to install it on schedule, because I had to talk to you about it tonight. I think it's not a good solution that we can wait. But I just feel really wrong to let you finish the agenda items and not mention this at all. So the outer portion of the slab has lifted up an inch. So the foundation that's under it. The frost has gotten underneath and lifted it. So you could have to drop it back down. There's a move seasonally up and down. There's no, there's no, there's no nothing visible about it moving. And it's absorbed it in the roof so that's why I mean, they have lasers on this back in June. I'm just not sure why we found it out today. The good news is we found it out today before it actually went in. But I just because I've talked to you about it being removable, I didn't feel comfortable not bringing this to your attention. And I said, Oh my gosh, I mean with them tonight. You know, he's mentioned this. I don't need to bring it to as an emergency that needs a decision tonight. I just wanted to notify you about it. And again, we can put off installing it and wait till the right decision is found. But the pieces that are all fabricated for it to be removed. So either way to do it. I mean, we have to amend that permit. Yeah, be an amendment to come back for an official. I mean, it's in there in the records and having that as a condition that it's removable and it's only up during certain months of the year. And I know that was an important part of our discussion. Right. I don't feel comfortable making any decision at all today. Yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't feel comfortable asking you to sounds like I don't know when the next deadline is, but I should just submit this as a formal request for reconsideration. That's, yeah, it's going to have to be an amendment to the permit that has to come through the DRC. That's not something I can. Yeah, I agree with the group. Sure. That would be a request for reconsideration. So take a look at it. If that moves, if that slap moves seasonally, because we've had an issue with a, with a porch that's moved seasonally, even though with the last time we put sonotubes down. I think the ground the darn thing still moves three quarters of an inch up and down. Don't ask me why I've seen porches foot in Vermont. Well, this one just moves about three quarters of an inch up and down seasonally, even though they've been replaced the third time, six, six and a half feet down and frost seems to like to grab it somehow and move it. So we actually have a inside because there's a doorway that it affects more than anything and we've actually have a phone that can handle the expansion and contraction. Right, because if they install it permanently and it just keeps shifting, it's going to have gaps or no gaps. Yes. Yeah, I don't know. So if it does move you want to have an installation that can handle that. That change over a season. I missed this meeting. But I feel like there's scenarios where there are, you can make a panel and then it has more of like an inner tube around the goes around the outside of it that you can then fill with air that would then push against all sort of irregular surfaces and if they were to move. Yeah, sort of like a gasket that goes around the perimeter of a, you know, a door rectangle that fits into an opening. Same, same effect as the phone, but it gives you more shift space. Basically, if you think about the foam insulation that you put around piping. Yeah, it's round. And if you crush it. Yeah, and then release it it comes back to its original shape. I think the problem is the hinge. The hinge on the door. Sorry, it's actually hinging outside, but the hinge right now is an inch off the ground. So that most corner of the airlock is an inch off the porch floor. Why don't I just bring it back next week and I can take so I can't take the hinge is the doors niche off the floor you can have some kind of a floating. Well they're talking about adding another pin there. Okay. And the consultant is worried about having additional holes in the brand up. We don't want too many holes to create a crack, right. And then the one that is going in happens to be uphill now, but it's, you know, sizable distance away from where traffic is going in and out possibly assault on their feet. Whereas this one is right where, you know, very close to where people would be walking. And he just was like, yeah, he's like, no, this is not good. So I don't know what to do. So I'll bring it back to everyone can think about it. And also go back, go back to the, go back to the consultant with the idea of something under there that's somehow, you know, has to take, has to take significant stress from the door opening shutting it's going to be a lot of. Yeah, create something that floats on top of a movable insulation or fall or something that can take that a little bit of movement. It's still bold. I don't know. Okay. All right, I will go back to join. Okay, and I'll submit it by the deadline. The request for request for amendment. Is that right? It's a request for an amendment to that existing permit for that. Okay. This other than the Other than that issue. Does anybody have any questions, comments, suggestions on the rest. Otherwise, I'll go through the criteria. Excuse me. For all projects, exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations of existing building shall be consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building or other properties in the district. The removal of historic materials or alteration of features and spaces that characterize an historic property shall be avoided. Character defining features finishes and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize a historic building shall be preserved deteriorated character defining features shall be repaired rather than replaced, where possible, where the severity of deterioration requires the development of a character defining feature. The new feature shall be replaced in kind. Any treatments that cause damage to historic materials including but not limited to chemical or physical treatment such as sandblasting shall not be approved. The proposal for windows and other parts of the structure are acceptable. The existing building shall be recognized as a physical record of their time place and use in the new development shall be differentiated from the old but shall respect and be compatible with the massing size scale. Architectural features detailing an overall character of the primary historic building and nearby historic properties. Location and appearance of all utilities mechanical equipment trash storage and fencing shall be cited to minimize adverse visual impact or adequately and appropriately screened from public view, actually the moving of the silo further back is Rhythm the visual patterns established by the alterations of solid walls or an openings windows and doors and the facade of a building shall create a rhythm patterns of solids and opening shall be preserved to the extent feasible acceptable Roof shape and equipment. Consider similarity or compatibility with roof shapes and immediate area concealed rooftop equipment and features on flat roofs from my level view from adjacent public rights of way and from the ground level of any adjacent properties acceptable Architectural features, including but not limited to cornices windows shutters fan lights and tabulator trim and other forms of molding or character defining detailing prevailing on the existing building should be considered in the alteration of a building acceptable Windows and doors on historic structures character defining windows and door patterns placements sizes proportions and original features such as trim sash and molding shall be preserved to the extent possible. When preservation is not possible such character defining windows and doors must be rehabilitated or replaced in kind. Windows and doors that are not character defining may be replaced by such replacements must be compatible with the historic building style materials and architectural features acceptable. End of criteria. All in favor of the application is proposed. Ben. I say yes in terms of the boiler shed and the pellet silo and the vent the bathroom event. I, I say no on the windows. I'm okay. I say yes in terms of the chimneys, the removal of the chimneys they were not original. So it's no problem to remove those with the windows with no the chimneys. You're, you're saying no on all of the windows. I'm saying no on the wind, the windows that are slanted. The windows that are. So the angle top correct so you don't want to replace the angle top the particular correct. Okay. So thank you. Only two. Thank you for everything else. So technically I could approve the other stuff, but not the replacement of the angle top with it so you'd have the opportunity to appeal the denial windows to the deer. I have to make that exactly with the actual permitting on that we might have to hold up there is the permitting and so we get that. Is there a scenario where you can replace the window and then just leave the just restore that piece of glass the triangular piece of glass at the top of the window. I'm not sure how. I think what will happen is that if we can separate it the other ones need to be done this winter and they'll just be massive holes in the other windows. I'm not sure what else we can rather than put a panel line. There's one you have literally this large a hole in that window and it clear comes right in and out. When I rather when you remove the glass and put a rectangular window when instead of putting a panel in that space. What if you got port with can make a insulated glass double or triple piece of insulated glass instead of apply with panel with insulation, you could take a double a small triangular window they can make several of those I've had to make those before. Yeah, can they do a double insulated or triple insulated glass panel that you put in and put a stop around. So now you have glass in that opening. I mean, literally you're talking about a piece of glasses this big. Yes, I know. I think we'll appeal it to DRB with all respect. Yep. No, that's fine. And just throwing it out as an option. It's valuable option. Thank you. I appreciate you're trying to help solve the problem. So whatever do right down vote three to nothing in favor of all items with the exception of the angle top windows. Yeah. So as I just said, the vote was three to nothing in favor of all items with the exception of several angles. When every angle top window replacements. And I just said, a member just not approve the replacement of the several angle top windows with rectangular replacements. So I can get you to. Well, if she's, yeah, no, she's not going to sign it because she's going to be able to feel it. Yeah. I mean, if the fence was open to the glass at the top, would it need to come back or would you be okay with the top being replaced with glass triangle counter? I would be okay with that. Maybe just throw events because maybe appeal to the DRB. I've got a double check to see it. That would go to on the same meeting as the two weeks or if I have to wait for the last year, would you be willing to read to me what I would be signing? What it what goes along with the signature. If you sign on this, then you're okay with not replacing the angle top windows. Right. When that ends, then I issue the permit for everything that you don't need to read what my signature line says. It just says signature. There's nothing else on here. It just means you agree with what this says, and you're not going to replace the angle top windows. Even if I do agree with what that says, including Martha's exception. Why can't I sign that. So that's if you're not going to appeal what's been said. How many angle top windows are there? There are six. Six. So can't you parse out that one section. It's pretty important that we start with this. Can we talk about this tomorrow when I can talk to Audra to see how we can. I'm happy to sign whenever physical permit software. Usually we only have people sign this if they're not appealing part of it. So, if you can actually make it into the office tomorrow, I won't be in until probably new because I have doctors to the morning. Yeah, then. I'll have my people who can, because I haven't had this situation. When is the next DRB. You can't make it to the next DRB meeting. I don't have that great. Can we just talk to her? Sure. Because what I want to suggest is that I would draw the angle top windows from this application. And it could be part of the, of the next one. And then it goes through DRB in the middle of October. So what I'm just trying to do is make it simpler for you to issue a permit for everything else. Yeah, if you want to withdraw that. Just fine. Just if you didn't know that applicant withdraw the angled window. Through the angle windows from consideration on that's this permit with that work. And we can wait till tomorrow if you want to talk to Audra. They would have to sign off on that. If you withdraw that. I don't know if that makes sense to you. Then if we still end up with the same place. And you're still. But then we'll be on the D we have to go. We'll be late on the DRB. I'm guessing that we're not going to be able to go to the DRB until October 17, regardless. Not necessarily. I just don't have the days in front of me right now. I can't remember what the actual deadline is. But Audrey, if it was, if the deadline was this past Friday, Audra was supposed to sign off public notice today and I did not see those. So it might be that this Friday is the deadline for DRB. But if you withdraw from this application. I don't know if I can send you the DRB. It's an appeal from a withdrawn item. It's a technical thing. I think we should just not rush it. It's the same thing as with the airlock. Let's let it go. Not rush for those particular windows because you can do all the others. I'd rather be able to move everything else forward. I think it's just calmer that way. If I, if we just agree that those angle talk windows are withdrawn from this application. So that you have to come back to making the small piece of glass to fit in instead of a panel. Is that just for cost or for aesthetics or. I can't even begin to understand what that cost would be. It would be really big, but I don't think the cost. I think it's just a complication to have be trained to put two through two scenarios. So in my mind, it's easier just to take them off of this application and let the known universally accepted items keep going on. I know I'm coming back in two weeks to say hi to you because of the airlock. So they could go on the airlock application. So here's a better idea. And then in the meantime, I could look at that price. If they're willing to approve it with the triangle glass top. Instead of saying that's what you'll agree to. If you want to change that, if that ends up being priced too much, then you come back with that two weeks. If it works, then you don't have to come back. You can tell you that I had a. Probably about a 28 inch. Half round window. That had been single pane. And we. Made a new frame had a new frame made by a custom. House. Portland class. Made and insulated. Half round window. 28 inches. Half round. That cost me $140. So. What I'm hearing is that it might be better to accept. The amend the change to putting a glass fixed glass panel in above those six windows. And that if that's not acceptable to the builder. Or to the owner. I could put that change in without. Huge animus. Yes. Could put that in with the airlock. That's acceptable. You wouldn't have to come. If you're okay accepting that as an approval. Does either that or. It's unacceptable. Right. That's why I'm thinking. Yeah. It's an acceptable just to make, take it off this list and let it be lacked. Two or four weeks. That's acceptable to the builder and to the owner. Yeah. You can have six of those made up. What I'm thinking is why don't we just take it off completely and let it go. Yeah. Yeah. I understand what Sandy's saying. It's just taking it off and then letting cleaner to be able to go forward with everything else. Yeah. But she would be able to cover it with everything else. Cause we would pursue the purpose. It will go forward separately. Yeah. That's what I need on its own calendar. That's what I need. Yeah. Is that if you take that piece out of your application, then you can go forward with everything else that's on the application. Okay. I'm sorry, Meredith. Nope. Just say that our applicant withdrew. To the six angle. No replacement. It feels like there's going to be a lot of amendments to this application. Well, I have to come again because of the airlock. So. I will be here. At the next opportunity possible. It was too good to be true to think this would be the last visit. I thought you liked coming to us. I do like to see your thoughts. Thank you, Mary. When I just said applicant accepts withdrawal of the six angle top windows from the application. And then I can get rid of this because we're voting three. And nothing in favor with that recommendation. All right. So now if you can sign that we can issue that permit. And then yeah, we need to get out of the room because you've got to gear up. You have time to do a quick review and approve August first minutes. If you guys have had a chance to look at them. Thank you. Thank you, Sandy. Any comments, questions or changes to the minutes? No, they look good to me. You hear a motion to approve. Second. Second. All in favor of minutes. Speak your names. Then. Steve. The meeting is adjourned. Thank you. And it's approved. And I already took attendance next meeting. We hear a motion to adjourn. I so move. Second. All in favor of adjournment. Speak your name. It's been Martha. Steve. Thank you.