 I'm just gonna take a moment while I have the mic to introduce this incredible moment in time The RHI summit was coming here It's my last weekend in the position and I knew I had an incredibly special opportunity to be able to Put a spotlight on the man and an era in New York City and New York City nightlife For which if it did not happen, we might not have ever even needed a New York City mayor's office of nightlife as a watchdog to make sure that this nightlife and those who run it are protected, appreciated, supported, and resourced and so because of this moment and this opportunity, I was so grateful for the Relationship that I have to be able to invite the one and only Peter Gation here to speak with us all today and to be interviewed also by the incomparable Mel Ottenberg Editor-in-Chief of interview magazine. So no one's here to see me speak so I turn it over to you. Thank you Thanks Ariel. Thank you so much for asking me to interview Peter Gation Legend icon true king of clubs for New York and beyond It's pleasure to have you here Peter. It's so much fun being in New York I'm sure we miss you. How was it coming here? How was the trip here? Oh, it's yeah, you know, and I never like Just jet through customs was always like, you know, a little bit of sometimes secondary up at this time I would have really smoothly and It's gotten better over the years. I got a waiver probably about eight nine years ago that allowed me to come back In the beginning it was always in secondary and now it's It's smoother than it used to be Before I get into like what I already I already wanted to ask you I'm just curious like when you come and you have this rush of emotion emotion and memory probably about New York What are the things like club-wise that you're most thinking of? Well, you're talking about you know what happened a long time ago like it like you just come right now, right? You got here yesterday like and you're thinking about all New York My looks and when I came I'm reading in Washington Post this morning or New York Times I remember they're talking about Dominion Voting systems and their next target is Rudy Giuliani, you know, I Break out into like oh my god, you know this reinforced karma or not. Well, you know when I come into town And he deserves worse, you know It's not over yet. Yeah, hopefully yeah big round of applause for that. But you know what come into city It's it's like, you know, you just remember You know you drive go by a restaurant you might not rest around you just Yeah, it's just an energy in New York everything from the retail the clothing, you know everything that's around here the energy And the creativity is like, you know, and it's well beyond Manhattan now. I think you know 20 years ago was like Brooklyn was You know, it's like you never even thought of going to Brooklyn and you certainly inspired it young woman had in Three or four years ago before COVID A lot of calls I'm sorry, I got a fair amount of calls wanting to You know see what I thought a different space or whatever and I explored the Brooklyn scene and I got to tell you I was Really impressed especially a place that you know like how say yes, and I'm not saying it because you're here You can read some of their interviews. I've done in the last two three years And you know and I said they really get it and there's some places that are really getting in but I One thing I loved about what we did in the 90s especially in the 80s also is we really put a lot of energy into getting a diverse crown and I think a lot of it is involved now were Everybody looks the same in a lot of clubs and again, I'm not an expert. It's not I can go it every night and and but that whole bottle service Movement whatever, you know, I think probably makes a lot of money for clubs But I think it we were much more I think egalitarian in our day than you are now Or you know, you didn't have to pop 250 or 500 dollars for a bottle or a table or whatever in fact, you know You had a better chance of getting into the clubs if you were you know creative with your clothes Not that you had to be sequenced from year to year or whatever, but you know you showed little Accessories or whatever you had a better chance of getting in somebody pulled in with a limousine Just the way it was Let's go back to the beginning of you in new york, which is 40 years ago exactly, right? You started in 83. Yeah, I've moved here in 83 and opening limelight was From a city standpoint easy hard. Well Navigating anything in new york city is really difficult from you know building department You know complying with the c of o's and p's and whatever and you gotta understand when and this is probably hard to believe for Mostly is because you're younger and when I when we open limelight Literally You know the big box doors like bed bun beyond those were abandoned buildings. There was nothing there The whole 20th street was all light manufacturing. No when I said no restaurants. There were no restaurants So it was really a really oasis. I mean there was Yeah, I mean it was 6th avenue or whatever, but but new york was You know desolate at night. Yeah, it was more raw. It just was Scary raw and I know what's scary part. Okay, exciting Creative since the 16 years old remember you're reading about time square dying You know first time going to new york, you know visiting time square So, I mean, you know, there was a rawness to it, but there's certainly a lot of charm to it back then too like so, you know my staff like I talked to people even like five Eight years ago like whether their staff where's your staff? Well, they all live in jersey or living, you know, brooklyn or they live in the Bronx or whatever You know back then like a lot of the stand lift on you know, avenue a b and c first avenue or whatever. It was affordable And then did it hit right away or did it take a while to really hit clubs? Yeah, my experience anyway They hit right away or you're in deep shit You know and it's you know and then you I guess a lot of people are in the business to understand but a lot of people just think you open your doors you have a terrific sound system and You know people are smoking the doors are smoking to people get in and you know It doesn't work that way, man. You have to work it. You have to have events. You have to have Like so we put a lot of energy in a real diverse crowd which meant you know different interests or whatever Different invites even for the same night for you know targeting different crowds whether it was literature crowd or art crowd or whatever and then you You know you do special parties or whether you get a mick jagger or somebody's birthday party this or that or whatever You know getting page six was right. You know, I was probably still is but back then was you know a big deal or daily news And that's that was your marketing. You know, we didn't advertise. There was no radio or anything like that We never did that. You know, I kind of add mass mass media stuff And so right so One of the big parts of your jobs was knowing who all the coolest people were hiring them Hiring them away from the other places and getting them to do their thing, right? not necessarily, you know When I got here the um The benchmark I guess was studio 54, but you know studio 54 at that point. I think you in and then steve, you know Had their troubles in about 1980 81 um And what I called it the uh era of you know miles of neon chrome spinning wheels Had been done to death and there's no way I thought I could come okay. I'm gonna come to new york I'm gonna have more spinning wheels than studio 54 did or I'm gonna have more chrome or neon You know that's not gonna work. It wasn't cool anymore Well, it's so much cool, but it wasn't it wasn't going to be cool in 10, you know, three years You know, like I said, you know, one club has 10 spinning wheels. You have 20 big deal um, so I just thought that art and architecture Were the way to go and my instructions to a real estate person had been you know, please fly me church but something yeah architecturally interesting high ceilings obviously um, and lo and behold the church You know was a um drug rehab center the woman I've gotten in trouble And she had paid 600,000 a year before Next year she's asking me in six. I looked at the building Didn't negotiate. I didn't say like yeah, we're taking me in five nine five. It was like, who do I sign? um, you know Churches are perfect and that they have high ceilings the architecture is you know incredible a lot of doors So to comply with c of o's and that kind of stuff um, you know it helps And then you know you talk in in your book, um about the real Sad mid 80s with one aids was really at its peak scary where you really didn't know where you're how you were getting it Etc. What what kept it alive at that point because you really explode around like 88 And then into the 90s like what what kept it going? basically I always felt that the gay crowd Continued with so much energy on any given night that I always you know, no matter what we did We tried to have a event that we draw at least you know, 75 150 there would always be at least 20% gay crowd And the energy level you know, and then they created the energy level they you know, they came on the costumes They were on the dance floor. They were the fun for me not that the streets were boring But they were definitely in the gates were much more inspiring. There's no other way of putting it what So by the 85 Um, yeah, I remember like having the staff that Healthy good-looking guys whatever and then three weeks later. They looked like you know, tom hanks from philadelphia I mean hit that quickly Um And you know, we got to know those people's it was it really hurt Really hurt. So anyway, um, sorry So anyway at that point we sort of just went after more the quite frankly the bridge in china crowd not that And they're just like said there's just just there's no gay activity in time And at that point in new york for you know, new york san franciso gotten hit the hardest by far chicago hadn't and london hadn't and That's when I decided to take the show on the road so to speak. So we did london and chicago again 85 86, you know give or take And in new york, um, and we were able to survive like I said, we it was it was mainly bridge and tunnel crowd It was just you know, but we had to develop the base of tourists like climb like I ain't given night a monday night It could be You know 30 below zero. I'm excited. I could you know, whether it's someone to climb we always good for 400 people You know, I know climb 400 on monday 400 tuesday, you know, maybe 600 on wednesday five 600 on thursday and you know more on tourist So we always had a you know a base of tourists and I think that was from the you know early 80s Or like said we had everybody from jack Nicholson the Tina turns out you know parties, you know Pearl jam to I mean we had a lot of stuff going on back then. So we had developed a reputation. I think that allowed us to survive and then when You know when warhol died and then everyone said Downtown was dead downtown was over everything was over. That's when everything really started pumping for you Right, I mean you got together off a couple years Um He died in 87 exactly And that was like I said when 85 86 hit that that's when you know, there was like the real cold reality that You know people are scared and you know, no, like I said, nobody knew how they got it back then whether it was dirty glass or a kiss or or whatever um So no, I did my stuff in london in chicago and then early 90s is when I saw london in shill chicago and then came back and The palladium was I'm not gonna say really hurting what they do The owners didn't really want it anymore and we negotiated, you know, they basically gave me the place for free um and uh Tunnel was shut down at the point and and we you know triple the size of it And then in 94 I think 93 94 you had clubs usa so it's Nineties it was a revival and that people started figured Okay, you don't get aids from a dirty glass And I think uh the gay community probably curved it's it's promiscuous, you know, you know a little bit also Uh, but uh, you know, there's sort of a I just want to be even in 90s that I compared to the earlys, but that only started in the 90s 89 90 or whatever, you know give or take When you had four hot clubs running at the same time and you're working 16 hour days. Were you loving it? Well, yeah, yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, you're really crazy You love it because you hate it so much, right, right You know, I sort of compared to say, you know, I was kiddin, you know watching Ed Selman You see the guy with the plates, you know spinning him and you'd have to run from one pole to the other Well, you know, that was me on steroids, right and you're gonna stand in and the The diversity of the you know, we were doing four clubs We're gonna give give or take 28 parties a week. Okay, which meant, you know printing invitations printing designing invitations distributing invitation and then the teams of people and everybody, you know, I didn't have outside promoters so to speak It whether worked for us or you could kick in sometimes, but you know for the majority of my staff were, you know I was their only employer and dealing with A, you know, whether it's a mark Berkeley who's you know a really sort of snappy sharp queen to Going to Sunday, you know, I remember going like Sunday night a tunnel one night And there's I forget it was JC or whatever and it's now may I'm up going that that night And then going to limelight and it was rock and roll church and you know having a like a pro jam on stage or whatever And then going to club USA. We used to have a night called. I think it was bump When I would tell you there's 3500 Sweaty like pumping Muscle whatever guys in there like it was like hotter than hell and then you know going to plating a minute We are what we remember doing, you know, Broadway bears were, you know, Nathan Lang is You're hosting it. So Yeah, it was exciting as hell. Is that and then there's all that, you know, if everybody's in the club, there's all a back problem, you know everything from the security to ticket takers to Cashiers to Barton. You got to keep an eye on all speed and I'm not saying I didn't you know, but you had systems, you know develop for that kind of stuff um, and then you know cops, you know Especially after julianna got in, you know, we're real nuisance also like I remember nights were You know, they come in at 11 o'clock Say, okay, nobody can come in until we do all our inspection at the building department in the cabaret Association just that whatever there Hold the door up for an hour and a half be like literally 2,000 people They come out and they give you a ticket for a disorderly premise because there's just many people on the sidewalk It was that kind of insanity. Yeah, we were when I say we were yeah, I think Because I was you know, and I'm not Bragging here. I was sort of the face of Nightlife at least you know people that didn't go to night clubs and knew that you know, they read about me or or whatever but um Juliani was brutal on all of us. Um, I think me especially but he was he was brutal. He was like mean son of a bitch and No, you know, it's like I think I was talking to bob a few minutes ago. Like, you know And this is last I talked about juliano your promise But you know, I was looking at this poor ruby Friedman and this other black woman and I don't know if you're You guys are quite a you know in george. It was an election Just an election worker And juliani highlighted her and torture, you know made her whole life unbearable and this is just a poor friggin person who works Elections or whatever that you know, he has uh, just hate that you know, I just don't understand But anyway, last I mentioned one promise Before we get into that I don't go to bed thinking about Well, I mean it must be good coming back to new york knowing that new york really really really hates rudy juliano juliani We fucking hate juliani Yeah I was saying to rl yesterday that like I don't know how this is possible But maybe we hate rudy juliani more than donald trump because I mean donald trump You can laugh at and be like wow this whole thing, but juliani. There's no there's no fun to it. No even private fun It's just horrible. That's all that's my opinion I think I speak for lots of new york. I mean they're both megalomaniac megalomaniacs, and that's the problem Yeah, they just and god forbid like a juliani and I said it I remember doing an interview. I think it was daily news if juliani Had the resources of president united states with the you know cia and the fbi and and every other alphabet Agency could you imagine you know with new york just with the new york police department? I mean he was beyond Nazi brutal Before okay, so so it's that it's that time right and you've got four clubs what Let's say none of this shit happened and it kept on moving. Did you have a plan? Did you have plans for new york? That like didn't happen because things Be honest with you. Yeah, I was I think it was 43 or 44 when the shit hit the fan You know my plans were you know magic graduation for me Was whether to get in the hotel business Or I was going to get in the movie business and I you know, I had uh executive produce Bronx tail right executive produce the movie called faithful and I yeah, and I met You know a lot of the big studio guys when we were selling uh or pitching uh Bronx tail and I sort of said you know These guys aren't that much smarter than I am so you know, not that I thought I was going to become a studio head But I knew I could go there. I mean, you know, I was 44 time. It's like You know, do I want to be up to six o'clock in the morning all the time? The answer is no So I sort of had a loose plan of of selling Or whatever in fact, I had I think I had an offer back then was like 15 million dollars or two of them But anyway, um Thinking back on the 90s especially when things like bottle service were really created it's on sunday night at tunnel What else what else are you most proud of for creating? No, just so you know On the record tunnel did not create bottle service. Okay. All right. We had a We had a small area where you could Sort of buy a bottle, but it wasn't like, you know, there was no menus Your your post tense on the on the table saying, you know, whatever what a case may be and If you're referring to sunday nights at tunnel We used to have a thing was called champagne bin and it wasn't that we promoted or whatever but Different posse's would is a long bar in tunnel would sit across each other stand across each other And see how many bottles of champagne they could buy and and they didn't want you to remove them off the top of the bar So, you know, like 25 champagne bottles on you know, both sides of the bar and we're talking, you know back then Crustalli there was about 80 200 dollars or something um But now we weren't you know, we didn't pioneer Or perfect the bottle service. That's you know, we'll take credit. I don't want to take credit for them Okay, I stand corrected, but it's it sounds really fun Um, I only went once I went I I did used to go to tunnel a lot I'm trying to remember what I was doing. What was tunnel in 94 like because I was definitely going depending on 94 Friday night Okay, that was No, it was sort of like a fashion oriented night um Remember we had the library downstairs So it's probably about four dance floors down at the place and then it was like all the fun things like the The rooms on the side you could jump in all the balls and and you know, um But it was a uh, you know, it was a hip night, especially When you start talking hip to you know numbers of three and 3,500 people it's hard to get Three 3,500, you know reasonably hip people No, it is Yeah, those are big numbers. No, I remember and then I was I was nine wait I must have been 19 in No, I was 20 and I and it was the summer and I'd we go to tunnel Like 1 a.m. And I'd be like these people are not right and then six A.m. Hits and suddenly out of the blue everyone started to look great. I'm like, wait a second And I didn't know you know what I mean? I didn't know about after hours and shit So all my friends would leave and I'd be so tired just watching it slowly Transform into something else. It was incredible because it kept being like, I guess tunnel's not cool And then by 6 a.m. You're like, oh tunnel's fucking cool. Like this is fucking insane Like something on some of that was you know Listen somebody has to pay the freight in a nightclub business and you know when I say the freight somebody's got to you know back then I think we're charging 15 20 dollars or whatever. So it's mostly tourists and and People that you know want to be part of Manhattan scene or you don't want to see it or or whatever so um The night the way that was nice was orchestrated. It was a Friday. We did both a plating or whatever so Early part of the night. We'll say early till 2 2 30 was probably 80 percent straight 20 percent gay and then by Three o'clock four o'clock it started deal that the numbers you know inverted And I have a feeling that's what you're talking about now Yeah, I mean, I guess you paid the the the big the big paying crowd was their bridge tunnel Whatever Everybody's sitting here if they're involved in putting on a night A production in a nightclub on any given it's not inexpensive Yeah, everything from insurance this air conditioning to a lot of stuff Even repairs and maintenance like the amount of abuse a building takes Yo getting three four even a thousand eight hundred whatever the case may be yo, there's a lot of repairs and maintenance and and It's it's endless. It's really a complicated business I think what I meant was the bridge and tunnel comes in has the best time It's their night and then after a while it becomes something else. It was just very incredible to see them You know, yeah, so it was working the whole time Yeah, and I think the more seasoned Manhattanites sort of know but you know real action starts, you know after 1 1 30 Exactly. This is where I was in college. I did not know better. I didn't know anything until that I learned there Um, I was not cool. Exactly. Thank you Um, exactly. Um, all right. We're almost running out of time And I can talk to you forever because I have many questions for you, but like what what What sage advice can you give this crowd of nightlife people peter gations as the king of clubs forever? Uh, one of them was never get high in your own supply Um And it's like any other organization is you know, it's it's your support staff is whether or make you break you It's just that simple and if you can try and inspire our loyalty that you're You know, you're not you're doing god's work by any means, but you're you're doing something that's especially in new york you know, you're doing something that's Gonna become institutional so you know in years to come or whatever and you're part of a culture to make the city so special And you can have a lot of fun do it etc. Sure But you know, like I said, you know support staff's gotta be and not you know talking for everything from management Security that ticket to yours or whatever You know that everybody's pleasant. Everybody's happy. You know, I just said, you know Some people's are sort of holoers like thought that you could really really, you know root to people because that's the way it is And no, you can't be rude to people. You know, it's just it's not that world, you know out there But it's a complicated business not that discouraging when it's a complicated business Um, I was watching your daughter gengations doc last night limelight, which I highly recommend to people And it really made me want more From that time, you know what I mean? Like you google club usa. You don't see that much Are there any which is crazy as someone who luckily went? Is there anything coming up in the future where we will see much more of your legacy? well We are present, you know nick pelogy guy that wrote the good fellows, you know wrote a screenplay and we're developing it and Sort of came to the decision that The story was too long to tell in two hours. So right now. So we're In development with the people from euphoria and when I say in development means I mean development. I don't mean Well, yo, it's definitely we're opening. Uh, we're starting to shoot next week or next month or whatever Uh, but we've got the attach it, you know, a few very serious writers to it Whether it goes anywhere or not. Yeah obviously, I'm hopeful but You know, and it's a story where a story about new york also. It's not just about me. I mean transformation in new york and and You know, I hope that you know that we uh get it done to be continued All right. I'm being I'm being I'm getting yanked off the stage Um, peter. Thank you for being here. Listen. It was a real pleasure everybody Great being here. Thank you All right Check For those of you who don't know the entire peter gation saga story do watch limelight The movie by his daughter gen gation that explains the real criminalization of Not only an industry but a man who ultimately was deported unnecessarily And having him here is actually a real gift and had to get a special visa to be here He was thrown out simply for the existence of throwing great new york nightlife history and so please do Inform yourselves about that because it really does demonstrate How far we've really come as an industry and as a city and to demonstrate that a little bit further I am bringing some of our current Future nightlife empressarios and legends to talk about that journey And so I'd like to welcome richie remarrow from And oh, it's working now Kay burk from house of yes legendary And also we are bringing up rob bookman who is counsel For the hospitality alliance and who was an attorney at the time and then I thought I would just join them I was talking to ariel yesterday and and she also said that you know If if if if Ariel had had someone before if you had had a predecessor that predecessor would have been a great watchdog on the bullshit That peter gation was going through It is crazy to read and watch docs and stuff about the time to just think how crazy an unfair The idea that nightlife is inherently evil or in that The people throwing the places that are so fun Are the devil that I mean, it's just insane. Do you guys feel like the city's giving you that now though? In general, I would say Yes, and no there's a lot of support thanks to the culture and a lot of evolution that's happened I would say when it comes down to trying to obtain a liquor license That's actually really hard And you're traded like a criminal before you even open your doors and have a chance to be a criminal Interesting I second that You had mentioned to me that peter really changed the game with Cabaret and liquor license when we were talking last week. Can you can you speak on that? Sure first of all If you haven't gotten his book The club kid definitely by the books available on amazon. I had to deliver in 24 hours is fantastic He did change the game, I mean I go back, you know, we did his licensing work my law firm You know, we you know, we got him his liquor licenses. We got him You had to have a cabaret license and if you had you had dancing And While there was studio 54 for a brief shining moment It was really just a place for you know For deep pocketed white people, basically He changed the game. He made nightlife democratic different people From different backgrounds in the same on the same dance floor at the same night was It doesn't seem like a big deal now, but it was revolutionary at the time And it took somebody with a tremendous amount of Guts and foresight, you know to see that and to make it happen There were gay bars and gay clubs and there were straight bars and straight clubs There were bridge and tunnel clubs, you know, and there were, you know, wealthy people places He made it all happen in one place. He made it fun. He made it democratic and You know, and he was the club king Um, amen, uh What how's how's running a club these days? It's a lot different You know, I used to work for peter. I worked at limelight tunnel usa And uh, playdium I started at 16 years old We'll keep that juliana might come after me It was it was all different ecosystems on the one roof It was like a school taffeteria and everyone got to get exactly what you were saying and now it's more It's more serigated. Uh, you see, um, there's more identity nights like back then the identity nights still had the different ecosystems And now you'll have it where it's hip-hop. It would be let's say more of an urban crowd It'd be more of a bridge and tunnel crowd. It would be more of deep house crowd. It'd be Uh, commercial edm crowd. It's a lot more segregation right now. And you know, that's that's a sad part of it You know, that's why I miss the old days because it was, you know The school cafeteria and everyone with these different ecosystems and mingling together and it was It's new york. That's when york is it was a melting pot and we're melting pot. That's divided like, you know In segregation, yeah I would speak to that even in even in brooklyn house of yases in brooklyn and even All of these new cool little bars and venues that pop up. It's like the subcultures have subcultures and Even you're saying like oh the hip hop well, guess what? There's like sub sex of each and everything which I think is very beautiful because holistically as our city We are all part of the same city all part of the the nightlife culture the night people Collective and yeah, we just aren't really mixing so much on the dance floors, but people do get to find their niche and Yeah, they're really they're dedicated community. And so there's you know, there's a benefit to it too, but we It's a world of difference those who saw the police officer, you know, this guy's like the number two You know a guy in the police department of a 35 000 police department We have a larger police department in most countries of armies and to see him here today talking about You know the way he was talking and to have you know a position like ariel here and to have a mayor Who calls himself the nightlife mayor? Um is a world of difference from what we you know, we dealt with you know My kids grew up thinking, uh, you know, juliani's middle name was you know, uh, nazi bastard, you know That was your true means rooting nazi bastard juliani So we don't have that now and that and that's good You know, I I didn't really mention some people don't know Actually, I also used to promote my parties at tunnel back in the day. It was called the solution Spontaneous groove open jam. It was a common ground for diverse expression Open mic jam session in the library and um It evolved into me opening up my own nightclub called sutra lounge Which was on first and first for 10 years And it too on the corner of first and first was meant to represent The crossroads and the intersectionality of new york And for 10 years My main focus was to make sure that that room on two floors had every single Person in the universe represented the foundation was old school hip-hop because that community didn't have A home and wasn't welcome in the early 2000s And because of that because I was a primarily urban crowd but highly diverse. We did have A lot of march operations We had a lot of as I mentioned earlier with the number one noisiest bar with most complaints Which red flagged us for every inspection Almost every week we would be marched on with multi agency inspections And I was nuisance abated and I was shut down because of that diversity And it was because of that diversity. We were targeted and Ultimately what inspired me motivated me politicized me to help change it from within to Seeing chief madry here on this stage today talking about that evolutionary change, but It does still exist in new york, but the criminalization of it I think and hope is coming down and I can tell you in our early nightlife association meetings in my little conference room When aria was on the executive board that level of Of you know of intensity was she was always there and we're going to correct these wrongs And you know we used to have you know nightclub clients call me, you know the day after the police You know came and shut down their place for a couple of hours You know lights on music off giving you a health department violation because there was a fruit fly You know in a bottle of you know a sticky alcohol Any stuff that could have been done at two o'clock in the afternoon instead of being done at two o'clock at night But they would say that the the sergeant would pull them aside and put their arm around them move them aside and say If you get rid of this hip-hop crowd, you'll be okay with us And what do I do bookman? That sounds like racism You think does So So it's better now It's it is much better now as far as that goes. I mean you this morning This is an evolutionary process, you know, we Have come a long way, but we have a long way to go because it's It's systemic and there are not alternative solutions that they have known in the past, right? And so it's not just about saying that's wrong. It's about introducing something that's better Right because it's it if that's all the only tool you have that's not enough And so that's what the work that we're all supposed to be doing in this room Is not just to identify what's wrong But to be able to come up with common sense Non-enforcement mutually beneficial solutions that support an industry that recognizes its value, but also The necessity for quality of life and safety That works for everybody and that's the goal and Ariel and the work we've done for years and you know You know and Richie's aware of it, you know, is that The problem was not the music that's being played, you know that you know And the problem was not 95 percent of people going to see that music. There were problem people You know carol and richman's, you know Before unemployment law she was saying she hates dress codes, you know The problem is not somebody wearing a cap and ripped jeans, you know and pants that may be low It's that some people are disruptive and that's what you have to focus in on It's also a racist door policy Yeah, not how they look, you know and and not so I think you know I think Ariel's on a great job in you know meeting with the police on a regular basis I mean and you know and and I think it's a more diverse and more police department that recognizes the importance of nightlife Now to a large extent because what she's done for the last five years So do I think it's better today than when we were fighting, uh, you know Giuliani thinking nobody's long out late at night. Yeah, I think it's better Where do you guys think nightlife is going in the next five years in new york? All of all of y'all gosh All right, I'll make a joke. Well, it's all going online. It's digital. It's crypto. It's nfts Everyone's gonna be in like these digital nightlife. What are those? Oculus club? Oculus Uh No, people in a party in person I I have what I think and I have what I want and so I'll share a little bit of both Uh, I like the micro clubs It's it's a sort of pendulum swing from like the mega raves and people are growing huge, you know I'm just like these massive warehouses. I mean we love tech support We love these sort of these big Big things that are happening now and if you think about how trends and culture go I've seen so many wonderful little spaces that are maybe a hundred to five hundred capacity And you know little local djs Their name's not even on the flyer sometimes and I just love that which means that younger people with less money Right these small tiny little business owners with a little bit of a dream can actually have It's a lower barrier to entry right as far as getting into the business They're not trying to fundraise five million dollars to open up a thousand person cap They're like, I just want to I just want to play my super weird Niche electronic music for my hundred friends and serve some orange wine and I think that's super cool Yeah, I I pretty much think today it's more of a cheat code In uh nightlife because when I first started going out the main reason I wanted to go out It wasn't a business It was to have these experiences you wanted to hear certain music You couldn't go online now with the cheat code and see hey go to beatport go to spotify and find this music You had to go to the club and that's why Peter created the stage And the stage was bigger than the djs. It didn't matter who dj People went in there because they broke music and that was the only place you could hear it And the same thing would close you couldn't go online and google Oh, which I wear a coachella this year you actually had to go to the club and if I saw someone in I saw them Like hey, where did you get those kicks and you spoke and you mingled? That's another big thing where you went out and you actually mingled and you know too many people K brought up the best thing to say and that it is all about experiences and there's all different experiences That's what's going to keep nightlife going is creating Experiences because we have to get over that cheat code mentality with with internet and social media That people feel like they can watch it from home And think in their experience it. No, they're watching it's watching like a netflix series. They're not experiencing anything One thing that's worse though and k just mentioned it, you know, that's worse than when when we open peter's clubs Is the liquor licensing process in new york now there was no community boards then there was no 500 foot law then You know, we got through the government process and he was licensed and and now It is virtually in new york's new york state in new york city Particularly your step one in applying to open a place that you have to go to this community board and it's local politically appointed volunteers Who tend to be my age or older? um, you know and haven't gone out in 50 years and You know and you know if you look up nimby in the dictionary it's pictures of a community board and And all they care about is the quality of life on their block and that's it and I can't I tell clients right now You know, there is no place except time square that nobody wants to open There is no place to open a club that's going to be have the maximum allowable hours by law 4am You know in new york city anymore virtually none I tell people don't even bother unless you're taking over a place that was previously open to 4 o'clock Because we can't get through the community board process So it's becoming an earlier an earlier city Also live music has been killed by the community board liquor license process in the city of new york We used to be a center of live music. We saw live music Formed certain types of live music started here in new york city. You can't go now to a community board Virtually everyone has on their checklist, you know the separate question for live music. Yes and no And what's the difference of its live music? It's volume that you are concerned about You know, it's not not, you know, and if you say live music I could not get a cbgb's, you know open in the city of york today a new cbgb's You know could could not get a liquor license for now for now You know, and we had we had, you know, wetlands coney island high brownies. I mean, we had so many cool music places all Gone and they're You know, they would probably be gone by now anyway, but they're not being replaced, you know by the next cool live music venue Fuck We need it. It's so stupid and there's so many empty places ready to be There's so many empty It really is a once in a generational opportunity right now and has been since kovat for people to get into the business without deep pockets You know in many of cities because traditionally the only two ways to go into the business one is like peter You take a vacant space you pour zillions of dollars and get 4 000 inspections, you know before you can open or You know or you bought, you know, uh, you know bookman's club, you know, and i'm ready to retire and that's my pension So you're paying me a lot of money now You got lots of vacant turnkey places that people without deep pockets could go into but they're having a hard time getting their liquor lesson I do want to speak to this other sort of trend Uh, which I like to call healthy hedonism So of course we're trying to talk about liquor licenses. Guess what cannabis licenses are coming up this psychedelic revolution is here And non-alcoholic non-alcohol people are people are raving With either sober or they're not drinking alcohol. There are you know, they're experimenting with all sorts of other things Whether it's like plant-based sort of Enthrigenics, right or they're like, okay, cool like ketamine is a whole you could get like ketamine therapy now These things are great. I mean this is wild. This was not a thing And you know, I mean it was definitely it was definitely on the dance floors, but it wasn't it wasn't therapy, right? I I would Drugs in an eye close in the 80s No, it's very sober So I just think that's very interesting as we think about where where culture is going and where Spaces for dance and celebration community are going that it won't be so alcohol-centric as it used to be Yes, you should still have a liquor license because you know like But it there will be more options on the menu Interesting. I'm very optimistic about the future personally. I know it's bleak and we're still have systemic Issues with these gatekeepers that are the nimby gatekeepers of culture and economy and neighborhood Development, but you know, there is an evolution of thought. There is progress There is I think the pandemic showed more than anything or there were so many things but one of many things is You know a greater appreciation and gratitude for what we almost lost In this industry and I think that was clearly evident even to those who are the most against it And that it's essential for our recovery and for our personal well-being and for their jobs And so we do have to seize this moment Um to keep pushing the envelope and to demand respect demand support And I do believe with all the activism and all the organizing and all the work of everyone in this room and rhi and the hospitality alliance that we and the future Uh director of the office of nightlife like we are all now pushing against The machine in the same direction and we will go further Which is so important also because um, I've this is my 25th year in new york. I moved here in 98 And I while I don't go out that much anymore I do go out and I'm Very much a part of new york And and in a lot of ways new york is at its most hedonistic as it has been in the 25 years have been here, you know So it's and also there's uh, there's you know More juliani types that we don't even know about yet that are waiting in the wings to You know ruin all of our future good time So like it really is an important time to know that the city is so hedonistic and that there and in many really positive ways and that people Uh Want to have fun. Um, but that there are a lot of problems that you know And bad people to avoid. I don't know right, but there's a lot of people having fun It comes down to it that covet actually, you know Brought out these 311 collars that silence new york and it continues the silence Like you know, I look at something as simple as woe hop Uh, you know, it's not a nightclub. It's it was restaurant like I need to even know growing up that woe hop was open before 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning and now it closes at 10 11 p.m. It's just We we got a fight to bring the leap, you know Keep it the back to the city that never sleeps because it it's falling asleep. It's falling asleep It's even in the restaurants. You see it's 6 30 to 9 30s a sweet spot You could get into any top restaurant at 10 p.m. You can get a seating It's just I mean, we're still recovering right? We can't forget that the entire world was hit by a truck You know and we're still in that recovery So to think that it's falling asleep or that new york is not what it was or the world isn't what it was It isn't what it was, but we are recovering. We are restoring the youth will keep Growing and wanting to go out and we're going to be okay And we just have to keep Making sure these systems are in place that are supporting the revival and the new renaissance of sociability And uh making sure we're taking this opportunity to get it right as we recover And we can't let the people were paying five million dollars for studio dictate You know what the rest of the city wants in nightlife to be amen amen to that Should we take questions in our last few minutes? Let's take some questions. Does anyone we have five minutes for questions Let's see I guess you know the dance floor alive where a lot of the diversity happens at People still want to dance. Yeah people want to dance. I actually just not dancing in the chair Yeah, like standing on the section. Can you can you like repeat succinctly your question? Just I don't know if everybody the question is so how do you keep the dancing culture alive that you guys talked about was the melting pot The 90s in the 80s now where a lot of clubs are the dance floor smaller and the sections are bigger If it wasn't so expensive to run a club, maybe these people would consider having less tables I agree with I agree with that and plus Like I said earlier on my earlier part where it was a stage people went out because they had to break in music Now people more educated because of the cheat code of of Internet and they learn about these djs and you know We do a lot of warehouse parties and different things and that's where people go and they want to because they're following the talent And they're educated more about the music because it is online. It wasn't like that before so And plus a lot of the table servers venues Restaurants became like the new nightclub because I remember when I first started going out I would go to let's say an Italian restaurant White tablecloths pictures of frank Sinatra on the wall and I left by 10 p.m. It was done and we went to the club Now it's you have these big vibe dining places where People extend their nights there's a bar scene now. They look like clubs. They're built like, you know table service night clubs I mean, I think people are always going to want to dance and it's about creating space for them to do that um We're getting the happy face. I'm going to allow for one more question because we started late Andrew Ridgey and Great conversation. Um, you know, it's like every generation. It's always like, oh man If these kids knew how cool it was when I we used to go out, you know, they don't and that's every generation So like what do you think the generation that's going out right now is going to be telling the younger generation? When they're older saying like what what's great about new york city nightlife right now? It's wild The kids are crazy and they are partying so hard and they look great Whatever the next instagram Is event data or if it is instagram, they're all just going to see it on that. It's different. Everything's captured. It's called tiktok Yeah, unless they get rid of it now I mean just being an observer of house of yet. Yes. I mean the creativity The fashion the love of music the love of life the love of getting together I mean you can't hold it down You can't hold it down with a cop. You can't hold it down with the government You can't hold it down if if it's repressed it'll find the underground It will that's why if we just Support it we can keep it safe keep it something that um is beneficial to everyone because it's innate We all need to socialize. We all need to dance and it's going to happen. So let's do it, right Randall porch rock moderator. No great job man Thanks for having me. Thank you for being here