 And there you go. So once again, welcome everyone. We're going to get started in just about a minute here. And if we could do a quick sound check for panelists here, I want to make sure everyone can be heard and can hear. So I'm going to start with you, Dr. Rhodes. I definitely can hear everyone and I hope everyone can hear me. You are heard, yes. And Hala. Hala here. I can hear you. Can you hear me? Very well. Excellent. And let's see here, Ms. Bridges. Yes, I can hear you. OK. And Yvonne. I know. I'm still calling. Like we're in a regular meeting here. Yvonne. Yes, I can hear you and I hope you can hear me. Yes, we can certainly hear you. And Congressman McGovern, can you hear us? I can hear you perfectly. And this is the way I sound. OK, you sound great. Thank you. All right. And Alexis, I believe, has stepped away. So I think Alexis will be back. But I know I could hear them when they were here. All right. Yeah, I'm not. He's there somewhere. I just let him in. OK, Dr. Shabazz, can you hear us? Yes, I can. All right. Excellent. And we can hear you. All right. So we're going to go ahead and get started. We have 105 participants here in the audience. And let's see here. Good evening and welcome on behalf of the African Heritage Reparation Assembly. I'd like to warmly welcome you to our second community listening session with a very special guest, Congressman Jim McGovern. It's wonderful to have you all here with us tonight. Before we begin, we have to go over some housekeeping items. I'll try to move quickly. Pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021, this meeting is being conducted via remote means. Members of the public may access the meeting by Zoom or by telephone. This meeting is being recorded and closed captioning is available. Thanks to Amherst Media, this meeting is also being broadcast on Channel 17 and live streamed on YouTube and Facebook. There will be two parts to tonight's meeting. The first portion of the meeting will include a brief educational program and remarks from the congressman. The second portion will include a question and answer session with the congressman and a public hearing. Before we begin the second portion of the meeting, I will share participation instructions. With that, I'd like to introduce the members of the assembly. Assembly members, if you could please give a wave or somehow let folks know who you are when I say your name, that would be wonderful. Beginning with Heather Hallelord. Hello, everyone. Welcome. Thank you. Yvonne Mendez. Hello, everyone. Thanks for coming. And Alexis Reed. Hello, everyone. And Dr. Irv Rhodes. Welcome, everyone, and hello. And Dr. Shabazz, Dr. Amilkar Shabazz. Yes, I'm here. Free the land, everybody. And Debra Bridges. Good, Debra. OK. I can't see my screen while I'm reading my notes, so. I said good evening. Hello, everyone. Oh, wonderful. OK. I'd also like to recognize and thank state and local leaders who are here with us tonight. Of course, we have our very special guest, United States Congressman Jim McGovern, who will get a fuller introduction shortly. In the audience, we have the congressman's aide to Hampshire and Franklin County's Kobe Gardner Levine, who worked with me to organize the congressman's participation tonight. So thank you, Kobe. We thank Representative Mindy Dom and her legislative aide Lily Stowe Alkman, who are also here with us tonight. Unfortunately, State Senator Joe Comerford had a last minute conflict and is unable to be with us here tonight. In the audience, we have several council members who are here to join us tonight. We have two at-large counselors, Andy Steinberg and Alicia Walker. We also have district one counselors, Kathy Shane and yours truly. We have district two counselor and town council president, Lynn Grismur. District three counselors, Dorothy Pam and Jennifer Tobb. District four counselor, Pam Rooney. And district five counselor and vice president, Anna Devlin-Gothier. So thank you to all of the counselors for being here tonight. Just to note that this was not public. This was not posted as a meeting of the council. Council members will be here to listen and there will be no deliberation amongst the council. I would also like to recognize the assembly's fantastic staff liaisons. I think their cameras may be turned off. The director of diversity, equity and inclusion, Pamela Young and the assistant DEI director, Jennifer Moyston. Town manager, Paul Backelman hopes to join us during the second half of the meeting. I'm now going to hand it over to assembly member, Heather Hollow-Lord to open the space for us to be together tonight. Thank you. Before I read this, I will just say, we who believe in freedom cannot rest. We who believe in freedom cannot rest until it comes. This is an invitation to a brave space by Mickey Scott Bay Jones. Together, we will create brave space because there is no such thing as a safe space. We exist in the real world. We all carry scars and we all have caused wounds. In this space, we seek to turn down the volume of the outside world. We amplify voices that fight to be heard elsewhere. We call each other to more truth and love. We have the right to start somewhere and continue to grow. We have the responsibility to examine what we think we know. We will not be perfect. It will not always be what we wished it to be, but it will be our brave space together and we will work on it side by side. And in this moment of interconnectedness, I leave us with this Titna Han Song called No Coming, No Going. No Coming, No Going. No After, No Before. I hold you close to me and I release you to be so free because I am in you and you are in me. Because I am in you and you are in me. Thank you. We are in this together and I am grateful that you are here. Thank you, Hala, for so beautifully opening the space for us. I also just got word that Councillor Anika Lopes is also with us representing District 4. OK, thank you to Hala again. The assembly also felt it was important to share our guiding principles, which we call ropes. This is the, these are the principles that we work together within and I'm not going to read all of the guidelines, but for tonight I will highlight respect, participation, exploration and sensitivity. And then moving to our charge here, just to briefly review what the African Heritage and Preparation Assembly's mission is. Our mission is to study and develop reparation proposals for people of African heritage in Amherst, to further the goals of the resolution affirming the town of Amherst's commitment to end structural racism and achieve racial equity for Black residents adopted by the town council on December 7th, 2020. A significant part of our charge is to consult with the community through listening sessions like these. This way we will be able to develop a robust and inclusive Reparative Justice Plan. We're now going to move into a brief educational program before handing things over to Congressman McGovern for some introductory remarks. Tonight we're going to present the five injury areas of slavery. Dr. Shabazz will begin by giving us a brief overview and assembly members will review the individual injury areas. So I'm going to turn it over now to Dr. Shabazz and also to let folks know that there are 113 people here with us tonight right now. Thank you. We offer these five injury areas as a point of departure. They do not encompass all aspects of what Reparative Justice means and can mean, but are critical ones that have been identified historically that have been identified in international law. And we also bear in mind when people speak of reparations. Reparations is an old concept, is an old idea. It's as old as human conflict itself when groups are in conflict and at the end of or at some secession of the hostilities you try to assess the situation and what the harms were to those who were affected in the conflict and decide to try and repair that. Then we often come to these areas that look at the question of the people themselves who've been harmed. The harm to their sense of dignity, their personal dignity, their stories, their existence as a group of people whether at a national level or whether at an ethnic level within a nation or at whatever level you are addressing that in the area of peoplehood. And also effects from as we particularly look at the effects of slavery from going back to that moment in 1865 when the war ended and efforts should have been made to bring the free people of African descent that education, health gaps, educational achievement gaps, criminal justice gaps and the wealth gap were all critical areas that needed to have been faced at that time that were not. But again, as we open our local discussion things may range beyond these or maybe within these and we certainly will be listening intently. Thank you, Dr. Shabazz. So now we're going to move through the five injury areas and I believe we'll be starting with Alexis. So just speaking to peoplehood, and it speaks to the destruction of our cultures, the denial of rights to openly express our cultures, the subsequent displacement of peoples from their identities and identity is tied to land, to language, to religion, to traditions, to their own families and self-determination as well. It speaks to the endangerment of our histories, whether that's country-wide, knowing about African American history, whether that's communal, how are we preserving the history of the things that people did in our own local spaces and then also our individual histories. So like, having access to your own family records, for example, is a luxury that so many of us don't have. It also speaks to the destruction of black spaces, townships and institutions. And then all of that subsequently also speaks to the suppression of community-building. How do we build community amongst each other and how do we, generally we're talking about a loss of community and a loss of self-identity and how do we identify our community. Okay. So if we could go to the next slide. This is Dr. Overoads. One of the things that is really interesting, remarkable and also illuminated is that all of the data show that lower levels of education attainment has been correlated with negative outcomes for African-Americans in the following categories. Health outcomes, the lower education outcomes, the poorer the health outcomes. The rates of incarceration are directly and positively correlated with education levels. One of the things that's within this rates of incarceration is something that is overlooked throughout the education system is that jails, prisons, juvenile detention centers are filled with people with undiagnosed or untreated ADHD, attention deficit, hyperactivity. There was a medical, the general of American medicine demonstrated a disparity between the quality and frequency of the diagnosis and treatment of ADHD and children due to race. Now this is important because the education system in which we exist has been accused on one level or another level of overdiagnosing within this category for African-Americans. But the critical thing is not the overdiagnosing but the diagnosis and treatment. Without adequate treatment of ADHD, if it goes untreated, all kinds of negative behavioral outcomes can be found. In terms of wealth and poverty, again, if one just tells anyone the educational level of an African-American, there will be a positive correlation in terms of the amount of wealth and also poverty. And last but not least, the correlation between lack of education and educational attainment in terms of access to home ownership. Thank you. Thanks, Dr. Rhodes. Thank you. First, do no harm is an ethical imperative that has gone horribly wrong. And I would be remiss if I could think in a minute or two I could expound just even a portion over the 400 plus years, but I will do what I can to address the systemic, systematic, and structural harm in the medical industrial complex. First, there have been numerous experiments and intentional harm on the African heritage people in this country. From the Tuskegee Experimentalist of 40 years, Mississippi Appendectomy, forced sterilizations, and so many other experiments that we will never know about, we may know about, and then the glorification of certain people of the father of gynecology, J. Marion Sims, who did surgery on Black women without anesthesia that helped advance his career. So yeah, no, let's not do that. Second is unequal access to healthcare and segregation. There's much data about different neighborhoods and sections of the world, but 67, not the world, this country. 67% of predominantly Black neighborhoods by zip code have a shortage of PCPs. So right there in just the very first step we are having unequal access to. There's also the exclusion of Black folks from medical schools and fields. And in 2018, active doctors were only 5% Black, which is way below, less than half, like way below disproportionately who we are representing this community. There are flawed theories. I say flawed and sinister theories about Black people not feeling pain. In the South, Black people are still to this day given less pain relief after epidectomy, thinking they don't need it. And in 2016, there was a survey, 73% of white medical students still believe that flawed theory that Black people have a higher pain tolerance. And a study in 2018 of over 9,000 notes say Black folks are less likely to believed when they report their symptoms to doctors. So yeah, there's a big problem here. Black mortality rate, Harvard just produced a study that said if the mortality rates of Black Americans were equal to that of white Americans, there would be 8.8 million more Black Americans alive, like almost 9 million more human beings alive on this planet. If the medical industrial complex, if health injury was not an issue in this racist country. Okay, so Black mortality rates is 24% higher than the white mortality rate. Black infants have more than twice the infant mortality rate in this country today, 2023, or at least 2022. And in 2019, almost 3,600 Black babies died before their first babies, birthdays. May, so COVID taught us a lot. It didn't really, most of us knew it, but for other people it's shown a really big spotlight on the disparities in many of the minoritized communities but specifically Black people. May, 2020, Black people were 3.57 times more likely to die from COVID than white people. And to bring it back to Amherst, our little local beloved community where we are, there are so many qualitative stories and moments that we will share with you about our experience where we were exposed to harm in and within our local medical professionals. And I'm not targeting them or any of that, it's based on the larger pervasive structural and systemic racism, but it's here, it's present and it's time for us to do something. Thank you. Thank you, Holland. This slide is for Dr. Shabazz. So from the, within months of the creation of Amherst as a town, as it ceased to be a district of Hadley, Massachusetts and became its own town, slavery existed here and it was under the color of law. There is an ad that was taken out in the Boston Postboy and Advertiser, March 17, 1760. So that's within months of the creation of Amherst that identified a individual quote, Negro man named Pump who was 26 years of age, a fellow of tall stature, judged six feet and a half high, has been long in the country, can read and write, speaks good English, had on when he went away two jackets, one of leather and under all a flannel jacket, whoever takes up the said runaway will bring him to his said master shall receive $3 reward and all necessary charges paid by me. Notabene, all matters of vessels and others are hereby cautioned against harboring, concealing or carrying off said servant as they would avoid the penalty of law. So the law was on the side of keeping in bondage, keeping enslaved African heritage people, black bodies. This is the roots of the criminal justice system, the police enforce this, the courts enforce this kind of law for another hundred years of Amherst history from 1760 on 1759, 1760 on down to 1865. This would be the law of the land, even as the Commonwealth changed, we then still had the Fugitive Slave Act come up that made it necessary for Northern states and Northern communities like Amherst to send back into slavery under penalty of law any African person. These, this is the roots of the criminal justice system. And at every level, we begin to see even after the ending of slavery, we see disparate punishment, disproportionate incarceration rates, disparate kinds of policing and profiling, the imposition of the death penalty, every one of these bullet points, we see it operating from this legacy rooted in slavery all the way up to today. This work that we're proposing here locally is not a detour from reparations, it is the essence of reparations. Thank you, Dr. Shibaz. And the final injury area is Yvonne Mendez. Hello, everyone. I'm covering wealth and poverty in the black community. I will say that this issue deeply affects the black community over many generations. And that's why it's so important. Some of these topics have already been discussed. These are all issues that are intertwined and have deep and lasting effects on the wealth and poverty in our communities. So limited access to quality education in our communities, often the result of redistricting, racist city planning practices to end town and city politics. There's a huge discrepancy in the quality of education in black communities versus white communities. A discrimination in the job arena, often black job candidates are scrutinized with different requirements than their white counterparts and often overlooked for promotions once they do get a job. So many families then rely on minimum wage jobs or multiple part-time jobs to support their families. And that just creates a very difficult situation to amass wealth and to get out of poverty. Discrimination in loans and lending practices. I'm sure there's many of us here who've been harassed during the mortgage process, denied loans, acts to resubmit documents multiple times. I mean, I personally experienced that. The bank continually delaying the process and I was ready to give up except that I had a really great attorney who fought for me. So I was able to overcome it, but not many people are and it's systemic in that area of loans and lending practices. Laws that result in black incarceration at enormously higher levels than our numbers in the general population. And that affects generations of our families, of our people, multiple generations. Inequities in healthcare that affect the mental and physical abilities of our people making it difficult to actually have access to resources. And then being denied access to real estate or land as an asset and also a resource to wealth. What the dynamic is in the relationship is and the systems that it takes, the knowledge and the information on how to build assets. Often that is denied our people. And often there has to be an ally or some kind of program where we end up or learning from our family members if those folks are able to actually have access to those resources. But often we don't have access to those resources that actually teach all of us how to build assets and develop wealth within our, with our families. Thank you, Ivan. Okay, now we are going to introduce the congressman to make some remarks. We are so honored to have congressman McGovern here with us tonight. And this is the first time I'm meeting him but he's the kind of person who is so connected and so engaged with our community that you kind of feel like you do know him. He's also a proud supporter of HR 40, the proposed commission to study and develop preparation proposals for African-Americans Act. So without further ado, I'm going to turn it over to congressman McGovern to make some introductory remarks. And then we will have an opportunity to engage and speak with the congressman asked questions related to our work here. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Michelle. And I'm happy to be with you and all the members of the council, the panelists, representative Dome, all those who are tuned in tonight. Greetings from Washington DC, where I am right now. And given all this been going on here, you should be glad you're not here. So, but I'm happy to be connecting with you virtually. I first want to say a huge thank you to the African Heritage Reparations Assembly for inviting me to participate in the session today. Again, grateful to everybody who's joining in. As the title says, I think it's best for me to do more listening than talking. So I'll keep this brief and then we can have questions and answers and we can share thoughts. You know, but the structural and systemic impacts of slavery in this country are undeniable. The disproportionate number of black people who have experienced housing discrimination, school segregation, health disparities, and mass incarceration is a symptom of this legacy. And we have just heard quite eloquently from the panelists here, the evidence that backs all of that up. Generations of black people have been denied wealth and opportunities. And the consequences and harm to black families have been severe. This shouldn't be a controversial statement. These are just the facts. This is why, as Michelle mentioned, I'm the co-sponsor of HR40, which is a bill that will create a federal commission to study and develop reparations proposals for African Americans. Clearly our federal government needs to catch up with a community like Amherst. Since the first historic hearing on reparations in 2019, HR40 has only continued to gain support from my colleagues. And while a Republican-led Congress will leave much to be desired, I truly believe that this progress is inevitable. Thankfully, Amherst is ahead of the majority of the nation when it comes to reparations. And I could be prouder of the work that's being done here. These efforts are important for determining how our country might address the harms of slavery and Jim Crow segregation. But they're also necessary for telling the real history of this nation. We have an obligation to teach the story of this country truthfully, even when it's uncomfortable and even when it's ugly. And when we have the opportunity to right those wrongs, the wrongs of the past, we ought to do so. I mean, the bottom line is we can do nothing or we can do what's right. We can do nothing or we can do what's fair. We can do nothing or we can do what's decent. We can do nothing or we can live up to the high standard of human rights that we all claim that we want to see as a reality. And so I'm in the business of trying to do what's right and trying to do what's fair, to try to do what's decent and to try to uphold the high standard of human rights. And I'm empowered by the fact that you all are too. So I won't pretend to have all the answers for the most fair and equitable ways that we can rectify these harms, but that's exactly why we need conversations like this. And again, I'm thankful to be here and I look forward to listening and learning tonight. And with that, I will yield back my time. Thank you, Congressman, thank you very much. And we are going to now move into the listening portion. I'm going to offer some instructions here. I would like to get a sense from the audience quickly. I know this may seem a little clunky, but to see how many folks might have a question for the Congressman. So I'm going to ask you to raise your hand now. And this isn't going to be the time necessarily just to, I just wanna get a quick count here so I can do some calculating on time here. So if you may have a question related to reparations and what the Congressman has spoken about, please raise your hand and also know, and I think that the Congressman's very welcoming to questions that may not happen here, but maybe that you could reach out to his office. Okay, excellent. So you can take your hand down now if you had your hand up. And then if you think now that you may want to make a comment during the public hearing, during the listening portion, this could be about the AHRA's work. It could be about the five injury areas that you just heard about, about the experience of living as an African heritage black person in Amherst. It could also be about something else relevant to our work. If you think you may make a comment, please go ahead and raise your hand now. And there will be an opportunity, you don't have to raise your hand now. So we can take that a little bit more as a flow as we go as well, just to give me a sense. All right. So let's start. We have at least three folks who would like to talk to Congressman McGovern and ask a question. So let's start here. Please go ahead and raise your hand again if you would like to ask Congressman McGovern a question. And we will go ahead just so you know, we have decided to bring folks into the room so that you can be seen if you would like to be seen. If you wouldn't like to be seen, go ahead and turn your camera off. And I see that we have Assembly Member Dr. Shabazz's hand raised. So let me just check in with Dr. Shabazz. Yes, very, very happy to ask the Congressman, you know, we were very hopeful with the HR 40 as we saw the progress in the House. And it made it out of Judiciary Committee. It looked like it could go to the floor. But you know, at some point, I accepted the wisdom that maybe it wasn't good timing for then Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi to bring it up for a vote knowing that it would be dead in the water on the Senate side. I got that. And then of course, with the recent election, things have flipped. We lost the House and now the, but we have a majority, slim majority in the Senate. With that dynamic playing out, some have begun to raise the point. Maybe it's time to bypass the whole congressional route and try to see if President Biden would move forward with creating the commission, understanding that this would be only to produce proposals about what federal reparations should be, what it can look like, vet those proposals. And then Congress then would ultimately, it would come back to Congress to then act upon any proposals whatsoever. But where are we? I was hearing at one point a little while back that President Biden might have been making an announcement to create a commission on reparations for to develop reparations proposals with the Martin Luther King holiday. I'm not, I don't know if that's still a possibility, but where are we at in terms of trying to get President Biden to move forward with the creation of a commission? So, well, as usual, you make incredible sense. And I think you were raising some really important points. I mean, maybe the, I'm not sure what he's gonna say, on the Martin Luther King's birthday. I mean, we'll see, he hasn't shared anything with us, but I do think that we ought to have a two-pronged approach. We ought to use this opportunity, even though the House leadership is not particularly sympathetic to build support for this bill and to educate people and to have more conversations and to say that this is an issue and to try to broaden that support. And at the same time, we can also reach out to the president and say, you don't need to wait for us. Congress takes too damn long. You can actually do some things on your own. And maybe this, maybe, and maybe we can do something. So I take your suggestion and I'll reach out to Congresswoman Jackson Lee to see maybe we can organize the people who support the bill to maybe do an appeal to the president. Thanks, Congressman. Okay, so from the audience, we have Peter Blood who would like to speak. And we're gonna, this might take just a second so we can bring Peter in. And I do see Peter. Hi, Peter. There's my screen. Hi, Jim. Good to see you again. So I'm very involved in the Interfaith Association that has a whole bunch of congregations in Hampshire County that are working together on these issues. And we have a similar association in Franklin County that does the same kind of work. And these congregations and made a big difference, I think, in helping to pass the Massachusetts bill to change the flag, which was very important to the native people of our state. So I'm wondering what do you think faith congregations and other community groups can do to help increase the possibility of getting HR 40 over the finish line in the coming years? Thanks. Well, thanks, Peter. Look, I mean, one is that they ought to follow the example of a lot of the faith-based communities in Massachusetts. I mean, they have to make this an issue. This is a moral issue. And our faith-based communities have large constituencies, obviously. Our faith-based organizations have large constituencies. We need to remind everybody that there is a bill, HR 40, and what it does, and we need to mobilize those people to start calling their members of Congress and members of the United States Senate. But I think this bill, even with the makeup of the House leadership right now, it can be a very powerful education tool. And I think we need to think of more creative ways to be able to bring it to the forefront. So we introduce it, people are being asked to go on as co-sponsors, but that doesn't mean, but we can also do community events. I mean, faith-based organizations ought to be doing the exact same thing that we're doing right now, having a discussion about this whole topic. What can be done at the local level? What can be done at the state level? And what can be done at the federal level? What can the president do? What can Congress do? But we need to get the faith community to prioritize this and to talk about it more. And because I will, and I think that among some people, even well-intentioned people, this is feeling like, well, we're talking about something that happened a long time ago and so there's nothing we could do about it now. I think what people need to understand is, yeah, something happened a long time ago, but the impacts of that continue to present day. I mean, we haven't gone beyond that. We call it something differently today than we did when slavery was the reality in this country, but the disparities based on race in this country are stunning. And I don't know who, so my number you mentioned, the pandemic, those disparities became more and more in our face during the pandemic, but they were always there. And as we start coming out of the pandemic, they still are there. And the challenge is, are we gonna fix any of those disparities? Are we gonna try to do anything better? Are we gonna learn from the horror of those disparities or are we gonna do nothing? And I really think that this is an opportunity for the faith community to help really inspire their constituencies and really engage in this topic, to make it a more and to prioritize this as an issue. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Peter. Now we have Meg Gage who would like to ask a question. So we're gonna take Meg, and then we have two other questions. And then we're going to move into the listening portion from the community members who are here. So let's see, Meg, welcome. Can you unmute? Yeah, hi, everybody. There you are. Congressman, thank you so much for your tireless service, especially in these hard times. And thanks to everyone on the assembly. You've somewhat convinced me almost, but my concern about HR 40 is that a commission doesn't necessarily lead to anything happening and whether we should try to add more teeth to it so that it requires actual remedy. Although you've somewhat convinced me that the public needs education on this and people who live in other parts of the country aren't perhaps as there as we all are, but it does seem like a commission might not be enough. Thank you. So, yeah, you know, look, I get it and obviously it's the first step, but hopefully it wouldn't be an empty gesture that the goal of this is to actually come up with something concrete. But again, I go back and I think we need to be in the face of more of our federal officials to say we're expecting you to do at least this first step. We need to make sure that everybody in the Massachusetts delegation, for example, is on this bill. We need to urge our senators to take a lead on this as well. I mean, we have power right on this call right now to be able to mobilize others just on our own state. But I hear you. Look, I'm not into empty gestures anymore or symbolic gestures. I'm getting too old and I'm at the point where I just want to get stuff done. I want to see results. I want to be able to say we made a difference. You know, we address this in a way that was appropriate given the severity of the crimes that took place over the years. So, but I hear you, but I think this is an important first step. And I think the goal would be to get people on this commission who, you know, were interested in figuring out specifics and not just, you know, a general boy slavery was bad and we have, you know, systemic racism in this country and let's do something about it and then offer nothing. We need to, we need to start fixing things and making things better. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Meg. Okay, we have Kiara Cosby. Let's see. Kiara, sometimes you have to accept being promote. Okay, there you are. Just took a second to move you over. Perhaps sometimes people get lost in space on the way over, it seems. Okay, let's go to Gary. I think I'm going now. Oh, you're here. Awesome. Okay. Sorry about that. Welcome. Thank you so much. Thank you, Congressman, for being here. I also want to thank you so much for your support of HR40 and my question to you is, so when HR40 was originally introduced, the term African-American was used and understood to be an ethnic identifier for black Americans who were descendants of slavery in America, whereas in 2023, it's used more so as a racial aggregate term that is not specific to descendants. My question to you is, would you support HR40 being, the provisions of HR40 being for descendants of child slavery, black Americans who are descendants of child slavery in America? And would you also support one of those provisions on being direct cash payments to descendants? Thank you. Yeah, I mean, on the direct cash payments, yeah, I would support that personally. And I think we'd have to figure out, I mean, again, that part of this commission would be to recommend, what are the appropriate steps forward, you know, but the reality is, I think as was made clear at the opening of this presentation, we also, we need to be focused on systemic change, right? I mean, you know, it's not just about one payment and that may be part of it, but I mean, we have to fix our systems, whether it's our health systems or education systems, our law enforcement system, whatever. I mean, you know, part of this has to be about systemic change. And, you know, and on, you know, on the first part of your question, you know, I'm not sure I got all of that, but I mean, I would take my marching orders from those of you in my community who have been focused on this, you know, for some time and quite frankly, I think what you have done already and Amherst is really, you know, quite incredible. So I mean, I, you know, we need, you know, we need programs and we need vouchers and we need, you know, long lasting resources. I mean, to me, that is a more appropriate kind of approach to kind of dealing with all of this. But I mean, again, I'm not here to tell you that, you know, it should be this, this or that or whatever, but it just seems to me that we need to look at this more holistically and more systemically and, you know, and not just kind of a one off whatever that might be. But I'm, you know, I'm not, you know, one of the reasons why I want this commission and one of the reasons why I appreciate what you are all doing is that, you know, I'm hoping that, you know, people who are focused on this a lot more intensely right now, you know, and whether it's you or a commission, you know, we'll figure this out and say, here's the plan. Here's what we should do. Here's, this is what we think is appropriate. And, you know, and I would support whatever people thought was the appropriate way to respond. So, you know, it could be one thing, it could be a number of things, but boy, I really do think this is an opportunity to address the systemic challenges, you know, that we face in so many sectors in this country. Thank you. Thank you, Kiara. I'm going to take one more question here, congressman from Gary Tartacob and then I'm going to open it up so that we can see what other, if there are just other general comments that folks would like to make, share experience. And this goes for the assembly members as well. So, I think we're bringing Gary over. There you are, Gary. Yep. Thank you. My question is a little bit like the last one. I'm wondering, I'd like to hear more about what we might think of as appropriate for reparations in the difference between what we'd want on a federal level, what would be more appropriate on a state level and what is more appropriate for a town like Amherst? I mean, I think there'd be different things or do they need to be different things? Well, I mean, they can be different. I mean, I think that's kind of the thought of this commission is I mean, like, I mean, you know, what is the appropriate response? And how do you gain and how do you get, you know, the, you know, the national support, you know, to actually, you know, accept these recommendations. But I mean, housing vouchers, youth programs, financial literacy classes, you know, they could be, you know, you know, outright cash payments to certain individuals. I mean, if I remember correctly, the, you know, reparations to Japanese Americans who were in internment camps, I think was a cash payment to individuals. You know, I mean, there were examples that we can look at and that we can learn from. But, you know, as we were beginning here and people were going through the various issues, I mean, it seems to me that if we don't also include systemic change, we're missing an opportunity here to truly try to, you can never right the wrong, but to try to address the terrible, our terrible past in a way that is appropriate. But again, to me, that's why we need a commission to determine the needs of our communities, to determine what the appropriate responses are, because you don't wanna leave it to me or one politician or one senator or one counselor or one, I mean, we, this is, this has to be a, you know, this has to be, you know, a thoughtful process that reflects the participation of a very diverse, you know, group of people participating in it. And it shouldn't be me, you know, a, you know, a white politician, you know, from Worcester, what happens to represent Amherst, you know, what you should be getting from me is, you know, will you support efforts to get us to a, you know, to a remedy here? And once that remedy is identified, will you support the implementation? And the answer to that is yes. All right. So that's the way I'm approaching this. It's like, you know, I got a lot of ideas, right? But they may not be good ideas, but they might be the right ideas, you know, and I think we have to, you know, for the politicians, it has to be, it can't be you just to come up one day, here's my list of five things to do. We need a more thoughtful process that addresses this, you know, with the seriousness that it needs to be addressed. And that is just a wonderful segue for us to begin opening up to this community conversation. We're so grateful that you do represent us, Congressman McGovern, and thank you. We are now going to open this up so that we can, if we look back at our charge, and I'm not gonna ask that we share screen again, but I'll just share with you that we are charged with developing a plan that will be recommended to the Amherstown Council. And the way we do that is together. And so that's what this listening session is about, is an opportunity for our community to come together and to talk about what a robust and inclusive reparative justice plan would look like. And so we ask members of the audience now, and I would like us to focus first on Amherst residents and stakeholders who are in the audience. So if your hand is raised now and you are not an Amherst resident or stakeholder, please do lower your hand, but we will come back if there is time. So if you are an Amherst resident or stakeholder and you would like to make a comment, again, this is an invitation to help inform us as assembly members in our discussions and in the creation and the development of this reparative justice plan. Before we take, just please feel free to go ahead and raise your hand now, but I also wanna just ask any assembly members before we move into listening, if anyone would like to add anything that I've said at this moment in terms of, yes, Dr. Rhodes, please. I guess what I want to do is this is a plea to the audience that we really need your input. It is important for us to hear from you. No comment is out of bounds. We really, really need your input. We need your participation. And so I am hopeful that we have a robust participation this evening. Would any other assembly members like to add to that? Okay. So let's begin with our first hand. And I will, please, if you have called in and you would like to speak and raise your hand, you can use the star nine function and we'll be able to bring you in. So our first person is gonna come over now, Emanuel. Welcome. Thanks for having me. So yes, very quickly, I guess I was wondering, how do you see these local and state efforts come together to inform the national effort? And is there any working between those two silos? Would any assembly member like to speak to that? Yes, Dr. Shabazz. I just would like to raise one observation. Within the, one of our local products of our high school and longtime resident, once a resident here is Dr. Sandy Daherty. And Sandy makes the point that I was just recently listening to his TEDx talk, but he was saying how in order to move with the identity of a criterion as well as the lineage criterion, it's gonna be like this boom to genealogists. And then he recommends, maybe we ought to go ahead and create an agency that is a public body that would give the genealogical assistance for helping to create that registry of free people, the free people registry, okay? Because otherwise, what are people going to have to do? Are they gonna have to go and hire a genealogist to then bring their records to the federal government to say, I am a qualifying person in terms of having descended from an ancestor who was enslaved to the United States? To me, that's the wrong way to go. And so if we agree that we need a public registry and then the federal government could go ahead and begin that now to help establish the lineage and the ancestry that was robbed from us due to the institution of slavery in the United States. So that to me would be one step, we could go ahead and begin to take that would then already create, begin to create the registry of African-Americans that are entitled. And I'd like to suggest little Amherst could be the immediate test case for our 1,000, 1,400, however many kind of local year round residents who declare Amherst as their residents who are black of African-American heritage. Let's get the registry going right here with the genealogical help funded. So I don't know if there's any loose ARPA funds Congressman or state legislators but in terms of federal state coordinating with our local efforts. Yes, give us the money. Let's have a local agency set up here deriving the help of the DNA testing center companies deriving help from qualified genealogists and go ahead and reconstruct the records right here on our 1,000 or so African-American residents that can show those of us that have ancestors that were enslaved in the United States. We could be the test case for that right now. Thank you, Emanuel and thank you, Dr. Shabazz and thanks for joining us. And our next person who would like to speak is Ash Hartwell and Ash is coming over. Welcome Ash. We can't hear you right now. Oh, I see, okay, nice. There's so much to discuss about this but I was very struck by Dr. Rhodes' observations about the incredible importance of education and particularly early education. And I like to think that reparations is addressing our present and future as much as looking to the past. And I feel that just one element of whatever comes up that is something that could be done locally is to look at ways of addressing how systemic racism has affected the education opportunity for early childhood and for opportunities beyond and that a program of support for early childhood education would be enormously valuable. There are many cases in this country and in the world that show that really focus on those first five years of life and helping families provide a really quality education can make an enormous difference long-term. Okay, it's not a quick fix but I'm also taken by the idea that the reparations isn't a one-shot thing. It's gonna go on for years if it goes on well. And I'm a white guy but I've devoted my life to education and I feel that I want to put this plug in to think very deeply and carefully about how that might happen. Thank you. Thank you so much, Ash, for being here. And I want to let folks know that the congressman has to leave at about 7.45 so in case somebody is speaking, we thank you again for being here. It was really wonderful to have you and so appreciate your support. I'm waiting for Kobe to send me his office number. Kobe is our Franklin Hampshire aid that works with the congressman. So when I have that, I'll announce that phone number so that if you have follow-up with the congressman, I have it now. It's 413-341-8700 and we'll do our best to get that on a slide before the end of the night. So thank you very much again and we have Jay Smith Crooks coming in. I'm unmuted. Yes, you are. Good. First of all, thank you very much for organizing all of the members of the organizing or steering committee. Thank you very much for organizing this. I'd like to begin by, and thank you, Representative McGovern. I have seen and experienced your impact under other circumstances when food bred for the world. And I went there and supposed to be advocating and they said, you don't have to worry about Massachusetts because McGovern's already on board. So I look forward to that happening in this case as well. And adding to Dr. Amilkar's suggestion about bringing in the DNA measures for the legacies and descendants, I would like to make sure that black people be part of that work that's being done, not just bringing people from the outside to as the saying goes to capitalize off of our needs, but to include us at a very close and embryonic almost stage of doing this. The other piece I'd like to add is the importance. I know that early childhood education is important, but one of the things that has been very evident for some time now is that of mentoring, career mentoring for black young people. When we talk about wealth, which is important, but for many of us, we have to get to the point of maintenance, being able to build in sustainability at the maintenance level. And that has to be incorporated at some point in time because wealth tends to be something far off when there has not been an inheritance of it. And we can't get there from here without taking those steps. I also wanted to ask if there is a timeframe in mind for the various stages that will be going through to get to the point of having ironclad resolutions, getting past that commission, which in politics, whether they be at the local level, the state or whatever, things get lost in commissions and there's a tendency for there to be a socially genetic loss of memory. And so building some criteria for the various places that we envision ourselves being to get to where we want to be. I think I'll just, I'll let that settle for now, that the wealth and poverty place I want, I don't think I can emphasize enough the importance of looking at economic sustainability, building economic sustainability into it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It looks like Jennifer has brought in Esolda. Let me just see here. Esolda, can you hear us? There you are. Good evening. Thank you so much to all of you for your compelling presentations and thank you to Representative McGovern. I'm sorry I can't be on camera, but I wanted to follow up on the important theme of education. You've brought up so many themes and they're all interwoven and all important. And I will say as a Latina that it is imperative on all communities to support reparations as the first step towards lasting justice for all people in the United States. And we should talk more about how there's no contradiction there, but rather a building together. In terms of the education issue, beginning with early childhood completely agree, I do think that in Amherst, being as we are at the heart of some of the most prestigious institutions of higher education in the nation, we are in a very good position to talk about audits. And perhaps there's a more positive word, we could say showcasing the progress or lack thereof in the enrollment and graduation of African-American students, staff and faculty at every area institution, be it private or public. The reason why be it private or public is because every institution is as a nonprofit entity, educational entity having tax benefits and all of the benefits of state and federal programming. Very recently, the TRIO programs, the last remaining TRIO program in Western Mass, Upward Bound, which came through Greenfield Community College and Northfield Mount Herman has been lost. The Upward Bound of Hullett Community College was lost a while ago. The one that's closer to our students in this region, Greenfield Community College was recently lost. And Upward Bound is a program that benefited thousands of students with access to higher ed exposure and visits and the famous summer programs. So that's just one example where I think, we on the one hand enjoy this incredible intellectual wealth represented on this commission and in other places from the academic institutions. I do think that as taxpayers, as community members, as parents, as workers, as people who care about education, it is high time and past time to ask about specific progress of African-American students at all of our area institutions and to take that nationally, but beyond where we are, where we've come from, what is the, what were the numbers, what are the numbers, where are we going and what is the plan? And that's a very specific place where additional funding could go. Thank you so much for all of your work. Thank you, Risolda. Welcome, Kathleen. Yes, hello, I'm Kathleen Anderson, longtime resident of Amherst. And I am excited that the town of Amherst has moved forward on a reparations fund. I'm a female co-chair of the New England chapter. Kathleen, I think you muted yourself. Okay. There. All right, I'm unmuted now, I think. Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you now. Okay, so I'm a female co-chair of the New England chapter of the National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America, and have participated with a group of people in Evanston, Illinois, the first community in the country to grant reparations fund for its community members. We've talked about the various injury areas and reparations, from my opinion. Reparations should cover each one of those injury areas. And I believe that the reparations should be a regular ongoing for the next 400 years. And as part of mentioned, and McGovern mentioned that his thinking that a one and done in terms of payment cash out payment is not suitable, I agree with that, and that I also believe education around financial wealth and how to manage that wealth and how to support the wealth through generations. I think we need to be thinking about our great-grandchildren's great-grandchildren in terms of reparations and that that's a way to lend supporting effort to the black community. As part of the ENCOBER group, I'm working with an educational group, a smaller group that is working on that with Ancestry.com and collecting our ancestral records. It's quite a tedious task and it does take time. So if there's an organization that can do that for a group of people, that would be wonderful. What else was I gonna say? Well, I guess that's it for now. I do think that reparations needs to be ongoing and needs to be ongoing for the next 400 years. Like I said, at least 400 years. That's what we have been experiencing and dealing with as black Americans, historical black Americans. And I use the term historical black Americans to describe the descendants of the survivors of the transatlantic slave trade into the United States. So that's all I'm gonna say for right now. But I can come back. Thank you, Kathleen. And I hope you'll be back to offer us a poetry reading like we talked about toward the end. I have it here on my lap. All right, great. All right, welcome. Can you hear us, Lisa? Yes, can you hear me? This is John. Oh, hey, hi, John. Okay, great, we can hear you. Great, thank you so much for your leadership. All of you who are on this commission, we appreciate so much the important discussion we're having here tonight, but also your leadership on this commission overall. My question is really around to what extent this body is going to use any of the findings that the California commission has developed and put forward. I believe they've met for over a year and have developed a pretty comprehensive report with findings and recommendations. They were established by the governor and I just wonder if that's already being implemented and used by this commission. Thank you. Thank you, John. And would any of the assembly members like to speak to that? I know that Dr. Shabazz has been following California. I'm not sure if others have. Would anyone like to speak to that at this moment? All right. Well, we, I will simply say that we are watching all of the municipal and state efforts that are occurring very closely. It's a benefit in, it's a wonderful thing to be second in the nation as a municipality to do this. And we don't have the benefit of a whole lot of other information from other communities, but what we do have, we are looking closely at. Okay. And we have Gary, who is coming in next. Gary Tartakov. Welcome back, Gary. Gary, I think you have to unmute, let's see. Okay. There we go. And it's not Gary who's on. It's not. Hi, Carly. Obviously, you can hear me. I'm a long-term resident of Amherst. Can you give me a thumbs up assembly if you're having a hard time hearing? Can't hear. Okay. Carly, we're having some trouble hearing you at the moment, but we're going to, there you go. Here I am. Okay. I'll just say what I have to say pretty fast. I'm a long-term resident of Amherst, came here in 68, left for a few years, and have returned. I'm so happy to see what you're doing here in Amherst. But what I wanted to say was that the people who can tell you what you want to hear, what they want are the people who are most effective and have been harmed and have inherited the legacy of racism and slavery. So if you have been identified, if you are known to be an African-American or African or a person of, African descent, then you have not only inherited that legacy, but that legacy is affecting us, affecting you at this moment. And unless we change the systems in place that have created the inequities that we face, nothing is going to change. So I'm not so sure that I, in fact, I know, I don't lean on the side of the blood quantum that we have. I'm much more interested in examining the things that are hurting us and changing those things so that we can, all people can have a better life. I'm not sure that's completely clear. And I don't think anyone so far has addressed that, have you? Or do you want to? I think Carly's asking the assembly. Oh, okay, I am. Anyway, somebody. Can you repeat the question? Pardon me? Can you repeat it, the question? Oh, I don't. I'm just saying that I would like us to concentrate on hearing the voices of those who have been harmed and then understand that the legacy of racism, of slavery, is just as important to know about. I'd like to talk to that a bit. And it's good to see you, Carly. I haven't seen you in a while. Hi, it's great to see you. Good to see you. I guess I'm, you know, I know we've had many conversations in committee meetings about actually getting at the information that we need. Right. And so that's what we continually, it's a continual process of how do we reach the folks we need to reach? How do we get the word out? How do we get back the information and how do we analyze that information once we receive it? So I know we're in the process of developing a survey and relying on folks like you and people who are in this meeting to help spread that survey far and wide so that we can actually get it to the folks, to the folks who have been harmed, to the people who are active and wanting to see this be successful. And so that we can get all that information back and have it make a difference in how Amherst moves forward with reparations. So I'm glad you brought it up because this is one listening session. It was one before this that was very successful. But you make a good point. We, the folks on the committee have to share and reach out but community members need to be active and folks who come to these meetings and understand that they're just not, I mean, I'm charging the folks who are in this session to stay informed. And once the survey and other information comes up to help distribute it because it's only by, our communities are a word of mouth. I mean, folks are sometimes wary of dealing with stuff from the town or from some municipality but our job as a committee is to get to the folks, make sure that they know that's one of the reasons of this session is to make sure that folks know it's not just some committee of the town that we're really active and really actively looking to get the right voices and to raise voices and to make a change or make a difference. Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you. Great to see you, Carly. Thank you, Carly. Okay, and just a reminder. So right now we're taking comments from Amherst residents. And so we have a couple of folks with their hands raised. Let's see. Jennifer, we can move the next person in now. Milan is I think, Milan. I'm not, I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing. Oh, okay, we're gonna go to Sue and then we're gonna come back. Welcome, Sue. Thank you. Thank you very much for having this program and for giving me a chance to just say something briefly. And that is I would be very much not in favor of anyone being excluded from access to benefits because they did not have a DNA traceable link. I think so many families were annihilated throughout the process of slavery and lynchings. And to this day, not everyone can clearly trace where they have come from. And if we're, sorry about the puppy, if we're looking to identify people that have been harmed, I don't think that, I think having a reservoir of information so that people can be contacted, but to make sure that we're not excluding anyone who has not been able to meet that standard. And that's all I wanted to say. Thank you so much, Sue. Thanks for joining us. And I see Dr. Chavaz, you're muted, there you go. Just quick answer, feedback to that. Couldn't agree with you more, Dr. Lowry. So we have discussed the kind of three criteria model that is active out there from California to Providence to all over. And that is lineage, residency and identity. And the lineage one, of course, California adopted it. And that has to do with proof of an ancestor who was enslaved. What we have said though, or document that we've discussed, is that to understand all three of those criteria have their validity. And, but that we want an inclusionary framework that can, yes, look at targeted remedies, targeted efforts across the spectrum. So yes, for those that are identifiable, that we do have proof if we could build this registry of those who are descendant of the freed people, then great, those that cannot but live here, we still are inclusionary to think about efforts that would also benefit other African-Americans or blacks or people of African descent who don't have the proof of ancestry or in terms of the lineage, the identity. And of course, we still haven't figured out too many. We still think there even are some things that even if you aren't resident of Amherst any longer, you might still find beneficial to you, even though you live somewhere else. So we think of an inclusionary model that can look at an array of ideas, of proposals, and not be restrictive toward any, with thinking about the benefits that could accrue. Thanks, Dr. Shabazz. Hala. Yes, and I wanna say thank you, Dr. Lowry, for what I heard you say was from the heart and inclusive of our community. But I know even within the African heritage community, there's tension and contentiousness around it. And I just wanna also specifically say that inclusivity, at least in my mind's eye, does not include, not to say it, but like white people or the colonizer descendants who quote unquote owned humans. And that's not in the spirit of what you were saying at all. But I know another city near us has just passed is like, well, white people can get it too. And I know like England paid reparations to former slave owners until 2015. I'm not as versed in this history as to how we slave, we repaired or paid former owners of enslaved people. But I know in Haiti and in our country, we have done it as well. So I just wanna be clear, we're not specifically talking or including, in my mind's eye, including people who lost income because they couldn't have free labor. And Dr. Lauer, I know that's not at all what you were saying. I'm just taking it a step further because I heard you saying, but I want people that are still being harmed included and or and or at least that's what I felt. So I thank you for that. And I'm taking a step further saying, and my intention on this committee is not to include people that aren't currently harmed necessarily. No, not necessarily. Yeah, aren't currently harmed by structural racism and or have been paid reparations generations back because Harvard just said, 840,000 per household is the wealth gap difference between white and black families. Thank you. Thank you, Sue and Hala and Yvonne and Alexis Yvonne. Just quickly adding to that because I do think that it's an important part of what we're doing regarding defining requirements or and I will say that there is, it is a touchy situation even in the African-American and the black community. And I will say that the federal government has not stepped up. I know someone else mentioned this before as far as the whole idea of what reparations should be is not at a federal level. And so now everything is dependent upon and for us being the special ones also with Illinois, the two municipalities so far who have embraced this topic of reparations. So I feel and I know, I had mentioned that the last meeting we might want to have a little bit broader conversation about this. It is specific and customized to our own community. I mean, many of us have lived here, my heritage is from the Caribbean but my children went to Amherst High School and grew up in Amherst and experienced certain things in this area where I would say, yes, they should be eligible for some kind of benefit from reparations and I can't see why not. I think that it's about us defining for ourselves and for our own community what it looks like. And I do agree with Holla that of course, the slave owners, I disagree should be eligible for it because it is about reparations and specific to people of color and specifically to black communities. Thank you, Van. I'm gonna go to Alexis and then we're gonna go to you, Milan. Alexis? Sorry, I'm gonna be really fast. I guess the one piece that kind of sticks out to me that maybe everybody's thinking about but we just haven't said out loud. It's like these days and maybe it's not new at all to these days but the reason why I feel like it's important that we do have some sort of validity which I think that what Dr. Chavaz brought up is really important is the state or whatever municipality funding our ability to be able to access our genealogy to access our historical records to be able to access those sort of things is like we do have people, we have the Rachel Dolezals, we have the Jessica Cruz, we have Mindy Kaling's brother, I don't know his name but we have folks who are claiming African heritage who don't have probably any black folks in their ancestry but or maybe they do that is so far ahead but they've been, you know, their parents, both of their parents are white and both of their parents are white and et cetera, et cetera. And so I think that I guess a very important piece is being able to legitimize someone's actual history to a certain extent. Thanks, Alexis. Okay. Milan, please help me, did I pronounce that right or if you would like to introduce yourself please and you are muted. Hi there. Yes, very good. Yeah, my name is Milan, just like the city pronounce it the same way. I am originally not an Amherst resident. I'm from California. I lived in Texas as well. I came here as a student at UMass and after graduating, I've made Amherst my home. Listening to the discussion, it is very inspiring but part of my concerns is how is it as a resident to know that it's not performative? I mean, because ironically we live in a town called Amherst and it's named after this genocidal British officer who gave smallpox blankets with the intention of wiping people out. Me having lived in the south I've heard plenty of people will talk about how things are in the south, the level of racism and whatnot but in my experience, I've experienced the highest level of racism here in New England. And I think a big part of what the New England identity is based off of is attempting to separate themselves from that racist heritage. And we've had, there's sundown towns and even racist slavery here itself. And it's kind of difficult to actually listen to this and not expect it to be another performative gesture. So, okay, so the questions that I do have is how do we make sure that this isn't another attempt at non-decision making where we give people feeling that they might have a little bit of power but at the end of the day, you balance the scales against them in order to take away that power just as quickly as you gave it. Also, this town is more expensive than even the white residents who may have been here can afford. What things can be in place to where the residents of this town can actually afford to stay in this town in spite of reparations and whatnot. The price of living here has gone up insanely quickly in a very short period of time. And as well as that, the question was also how to get the word out about what we're doing here. In my experience, there's been a divide, there's a divide in this town. You have the haves and you have the have-nots. And the have-nots are very obvious. You go down Pleasant Street and you can see all the have-nots standing outside. How can you incorporate that group of people who may not even have access to internet or even have access to a computer to even join this meeting that we're having now? A good start could be maybe putting flyers up around town. Actual flyers. And a way for people to actually have access to the meetings that are happening. I only stumbled across these meetings because one late night, I was scrolling through the channels on cable and the public access channel came up and there was a flyer that popped up through Amherst media. That was completely accidental though. If I wasn't there at that moment, I would have no idea about these pursuers. And then another thing too would be who is actually a resident? Because there are plenty of people who've lived in this town who can no longer afford to live in this town. They've moved to Holyoke or Pelham or Sunderland, Deerfield, anywhere. So how is it that, how is the residency of this town being determined in terms of reparations? You could have been raised here and then have moved out of town because you can't afford to live here. So are those people too going to be incorporated or is it kind of a, you made a choice for your best financial wellbeing just to be excluded from, or just to be excluded from the whole process? That's it. Thank you so much. Thank you. And this is to you and to all of the folks who have spoken tonight, please do stay engaged with us. This is exactly the kind of feedback that we are looking for and just so deeply appreciate. So thank you. And I see that Yvonne, and I think it was Yvonne Alexis and then Dr. Rhodes. Yvonne, you're in it. Okay. Why don't we go to Dr. Rhodes? Okay. Mila, I'm really thank you very much for your comments. One of the, one of our, one of this panel's greatest challenges is reaching out to the African-American community. And not only reaching out, we can do that, but it's the response that we want. And we are right now in the process of structuring a survey to go out to the African-American community as well as other stakeholders in the community to get their feedback in terms of some really important issues that we are faced with, that some of them have been mentioned tonight, that we really need to get the feedback from the community on. And so those who are now in the audience, if you have not registered on the portal with you're an African-American under Engaged Armors, I really would encourage you to do so and to encourage others who you might know. The other thing is, if people in the audience have any suggestions as to how we may better engage the community in our efforts, we really would like to hear from you. Thanks, Dr. Rhodes, Alexis. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for saying those things. I think that just to speak to the performative piece, it's really hard to say. And I think that it's important for people to understand that we, as a body, we aren't a decision, really a decision-making body. We don't get to make any sort of, we're a recommending body. We get to recommend to the people who make the decisions, what they should do or how they should use the funds. So really, it's, and I don't wanna sound cynical at all. I'm trying to sound more realist than anything, is like it's really in the hands of our town counselors to make the decisions based off of our recommendations. It's our body only lives for so long or maybe they'll extend the lifetime of our body, but we don't know. And so it's really up to us to continue the work and encourage our town counselors to continue this work and be very aggressive for a lack of a better word about it because we're talking about, and it's difficult too, right? When we live in this capitalism and you say stuff like, oh, well, if you're an anti-capitalist, why don't you just get out? Like what am I supposed to do? I'm supposed to do live in a cave, you know what I'm saying? Like how do you get out of this? And we're talking about systems that have for so many hundreds of years, they thrive and function off of the exploitation of black physical labor, off of black intellectual labor, off of black emotional labor. And so it's so hard to say how we can do that in the bubble that we have, especially knowing the powers that be. And this is not me pointing fingers at anybody, but like this is just how it is. So I wanna thank you for saying that. I guess what I'm trying to say is we're trying to be very earnest and genuine about it, but I think that it takes a little bit more than what we're doing right here in this body and it's going to take more effort in terms of us building this community and in terms of like everybody involved in this and us really working together to make this a reality even outside of this. So yeah. Thank you, Alexis. Hala. Yes, and thank you not to like belabor a point, but Milan. Some of my friends call Massachusetts Mississippi because we are just as racist as the South. If not more, it just has a different flavor, it looks different, there's gaslighting. And so thank you for naming that and bringing it to here. And I know the people I work with on this committee, we do not wanna be performative, but we also need to be reminded not to be performative. And I think part of the biggest first step is that people in this area, we need to say shoot. I really wanted to say an expletive, but we do engage in white supremacy ideology, oppressive practices and racism. We are not like the freedom fighters come to the North. And that feels like a first step to say, how did we engage? And even like Harvard right now, not to give Harvard a lot of props, but they're saying what theorists did we engage with even beyond when we disengage from slavery that enhanced thinking black people were other than. So just thank you, Milan. Thank you, Amherst for listening. I'm not trying to call us out, but I will call us out because there's a lot of racism here. And I even have to analyze myself in what ways do I engage in and support white supremacy ideology. So thank you for that. Thank you, Halla. Ms. Bridges, I thought I saw your hand. I also wanna thank Milan, his comments were right on the money. I think back of the racism and harm that I've had growing up in Amherst and it really needs to stop. It really does. And his comments were right on the money. More people need to know, more people need to get involved with us. So thank you, Milan. My pleasure. Thank you, Ms. Bridges and Milan. And we have, so I'm looking at the time, I'd like to bring in, I think it's Jacqueline, into the audience. And then we have Kathleen who is going to finish us out with a poem, a poetry reading. And then we're going to provide some contact information to the congressman and also for how you can reach us and follow up with our work, the inclusion portal and the survey that we hope to be releasing in the near future. Welcome back. Thank you. I've been sitting here squirming because I've been so excited about hearing, hearing voices that echo my thoughts. And one of the things I'm from Macon, Georgia, I was part of the civil rights movement in the South in the 60s. And when I came to Amherst, it was not until I came to Amherst that I thought I needed to admit myself to an asylum. So I went back home, I came back here, I came here as a doctoral student and everybody was asking if I were happy that I'm up here away from the South. And I couldn't quite figure it out until I figured it out by going back home a few months after I came here so that I could admit myself to the asylum. And it was there that I learned I was not out of touch with reality. Reality had decided it would squash me and convince me otherwise. When I came back here the second time which was almost 20 years later, I found that that was many of us, our survival depended upon our being complicit. In the whole effort to maintain oppression. And all of the speakers afterwards, I was wondering as we were going along tonight was my truth ever going to be echoed and would we not be afraid any longer to speak? When I came back, I came to set up a respite, a haven for black women. And I encountered, I talked with other black women who have been here for a long period of time and they said that I have white friends. And it was like going back to 1978 when I came here it made me forgive me. It made me mindless. And as one who did her doctorate in psychological education, it made me crazy. And I couldn't understand, but just to survive there's a certain complicity that has to occur in some of our heads. And when Malan spoke he just summed up what the other speakers had said earlier. And we're not going to reach when we were going to do something about elders in this community. And the responsibility was put on me to identify them. I don't know all black folks in Amherst and there must be a way to get the records. There has to be, there has to be, but I was left with the responsibility of notifying. That doesn't make sense. The town, if it is committed has to allocate the funds to be able to get in touch with these people. But I appreciate this tonight. I tell you, I go away flying to bed and feeling rejuvenated and revived and centered again because the visibility is acknowledged. And we don't have to be silent. We don't have to tiptoe through the tulips. We have to be bold enough to speak. And to some extent we have to be given permission. And that is where community is. When white people can accept the fact that we can't take care of everybody. There's an African proverb that says, beware of the naked man or woman who comes bringing you clothes. And it's so important in academic settings that we close everyone at one time because it's less costly to do that when we have violated or stripped them in different ways. So we have to be all inclusive so that we can redeem the era of the greatest committer of those errors. And it doesn't feel good and it doesn't resonate well. So something about it isn't right. Thank you so much for this evening. And thank Kathleen, because I would not have known about it if I had not run into Kathleen yesterday. And she made it a point to get the word to me because my old email address wasn't working. And if we do one at a time, the next 400 years we might have been able to have Amherst redeem itself. Thank you so much, Jacqueline. Thank you for being here. I'm so glad that you ran into Kathleen and really, really appreciate your comments. I do see Ms. Bridges' hand is raised. It may have been from the last time. Okay, just checking in. Okay. Wow. Does anybody else hear that noise or did you take me? I do hear that noise. I don't hear it anymore. I did hear it. Do you still hear it? Okay. Good, okay. So it looks like we have Amil Karshabaz Jr. Welcome. Hi guys. See you. I almost lost heart to say anything. You know, hearing from others, it helped. Actually, I resonate with Carly Tartikov saying that we need to hear from people who have been affected and, you know, where the damage is. I really think that one of the things that we're facing is disinformation. I think, you know, and misinformation, I think that people will, you know, try to simplify the history and twist people's words. And the best thing we can do is just provide more truth and more information about who really needs to help and, you know, what a great thing this is in actuality. I'm really looking forward to suggestions that can come from here and learning about how we're gonna find those things out. You know, I think it's hard to basically do something that a lot of countries have no experience doing. It takes a lot of creativity and a lot of, you know, morality, I think, to even think something like this is possible. I think that we are listening to each other and, you know, we're the type of people that will listen, but as the second in the country to really consider this as a worthwhile proposition, you know, you're facing a lot of people that would like to just be told, no, because they've seen the history operate and, you know, even people that could use the help would say no, perhaps, because they think this will cause problems and it probably will cause problems because a lot of, you know, people who have resentment will be shown to be opaque in their judgment of this type of, you know, activity and I think, you know, all we can do is just show the facts and the truth about the history and, you know, people will, you know, it'll give them something to be forgiven about. You know, they don't have to be the one-dimensional kind of racist that we fear them to be, you know, there can be definitely reparations and then also forgiveness for this kind of history and it really hasn't been done before for other kind of underclass people in other countries. This kind of thing is reminiscent of, you know, social cast and there's nothing that they can say to take away from, you know, the voices that need to be heard about this because it's, I think it's obvious, but maybe that's my bias, but, yeah. Thank you so much, Milcar. Thank you. Thank you so much, Milcar. Thank you for joining us. Really nice to see you. Okay. It looks like we have Ms. Pat coming in. Can people hear me? Yes. Welcome. Okay. I want to be as attendance. Okay. So first of all, thank you to the HRA, committee members for your time. I really appreciate it. Everybody that came out tonight, including our elected officials. I wasn't sure if I wanted to speak tonight, but I decided to. So a couple of feedback. I appreciate that our town wants to set up a reparation fund. However, given that our town is well resourced, I am kind of frustrated that our town only dedicated $2 million for 10 years, when in fact we had another free cash money that could have gone to reparation fund. We're talking about supporting big library for $16 million, and our town doesn't have enough funds right away for black residents in this town. 10 years. Some of the black folks in this town will even pass away. Some of the folks who are, you know, working hard to get this happen may not even be alive. So my point is our town just wants to check out the box. Okay. That's what they did. Check out the box. You want reparation? We'll give you $2 million for 10 years. Shut up. Move on. Let's do something else. Another issue I want to bring up is, as most of you know, I ran a business in town. I had a restaurant. And with some black business owners, and I'm speaking for myself, who experienced structural barriers, racism in our town, where the Chamber of Commerce, with the bead, renting and things like that, I'm not having a voice in decision making that affects business people. A group of black on business in 2016, we gathered together and started a group. And we called ourselves Black Business Association. What is striking about my group is that we experienced similar discrimination. We met monthly, and during the pandemic, we stopped meeting and still get connected, and we started again. The federal government gave town of Amnesty $12 million. I want people to just think about that. Let us think in. Out of $12 million, we have about maybe 2 million left. None of that money, a dime, has gone to members of my group. That is more than 20 businesses in our town. And when I said businesses, it does not really necessarily mean you're renting from landlords, okay? And my group members have not received a dime from this money. And we've called upon our town officials to engage our group. The upper fund, the similar money is not taken down to the most impacted in our town. And yet we parade ourselves as liberal town. What do you want? We gave you reparations. We created Crest Program for you. We created DEI for you. But watch what is happening, okay? July 5th, we had an incident. The youth and their families are demanding compensation. The town officials just kept mute. They don't want to do anything. This has happened to majority white. Compensation would have been settled because they have the economic power to return a tiny and sue the town. Okay? So we're talking about harm done in the past. Harm is still happening up till today. If you're a Black person in America, I don't care who you are. You experience racism. And when you speak up, you get targeted. You get called names. And I don't care. You guys are asking why don't we have people tonight listening session? Why do we need Brother White resident to be here tonight? I get that we invited our congressman and our state representative. I get that. Black people would like to speak their minds and not fear that repercussion on them. Okay? Many Black people, they're aware of the preparation, but people don't have faith in our town officials. They're in our past history. And I can go on, but I thank you guys for doing this. And I hope you guys are getting compensated for your time because our town is resourced. And we need to change the systems that is keeping people of color in this town, especially Black people, because we need to change it. We cannot stand for status quo anymore. Our town needs to provide childcare for folks that serve on committees. I think our town needs to pay for anyone serving on town boards because we have the resources. You can tell a town's priority based on their budget. And you can hear racist comments, but it's not said like that. It's like we cannot afford it. We have budgetary constraints. So we can't get more staffing for Crests. We don't have money for reparation right away. They will come up with budgetary constraints. But when it comes to John's Library, they will find federal funds to get money. So get money. That will be vote. So increase the amount. And I just want to stop there. Thank you. I appreciate you all doing this. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Miss Pat. Thank you for being here and for your comments. And so I'm aware of the time. We do have one more hand raised. And then we have Dr. Shabazz and Yvonne, who may also have some comments. Bring, we've brought in. Emanuel Felton and we're going to take that comment. And then other comments from the assembly. And then we will bring Kathleen back. In fact, we can bring Kathleen in now. So that when this comment is completed, we can move. Into the poet poetry reading that we have coming from Kathleen. Kathleen, you may have to raise your hand in order to be brought in. So. Oh, there you are. Okay, welcome. It's my go. It's your go. Sorry. Yeah. I just thought it was appropriate to introduce myself. I am Emmanuel Felton. I'm the recent ethnicity reporter at the Washington Post. You know, I feel like some of my, you know, it was spoken to some of the work I've done recently. You know, the Providence story about half the white residents quality came from my reporting. And I'm just, I'm trying to stay in touch with the communities across the country that are trying to really do this work. And, you know, I think Amherst is super interesting. I mean, you know, it's a town with the, it's a fascinating history. And I think it's a place that I want to, to write about. So I just wanted to, to say, you know, I'm here. I would love to talk to folks if you're interested. I'm just going to say it. My, my cell is 504-481-9169. And my email address is Emmanuel, E-M-M-A-N-U-E-L dot Felton. F is in Frank, E-L-T-O-N at washpost.com. And thanks so much for having me. It's been a really interesting conversation tonight. Thank you. And I'll make sure, because we've been in touch already once or twice, I'll make sure to get your contact information out again to everybody. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. All right. So Dr. Shabazz texted me and made an excellent suggestion that any assembly member that would like to make, you know, closing comments here. This is the time that we can do that. And then Kathleen, who we can see now in that, just a picture, will close us up with a poem. So if there are, I see Yvonne's hands up. So I'm going to go right to you, Yvonne. I just wanted to comment on Pat's, to kind of fill in and comment on some of what Pat brought up, which is the whole idea of allies. And I do believe that we need public forums like this, where everyone is invited. But I also do agree that if there's some, at some point, and I hope that I understood what Pat was saying, that there should be possibly some sessions that are closed where African Americans might feel more comfortable being able to share personal experiences. And we did address that previously in our committee meetings, that there might be a way for us to be able to get at some of those really important stories that in this public forum, there might be folks who are not as comfortable sharing those things across the board in a large setting like this. So I, you know, I will say that, that there has been conversation about that to, to answer Pat's concern that yes, they're hopefully within the timeframe that there is time to be able to offer that kind of space for, for BIPOC folks to be able to really share their experiences. Excellent, thank you, Yvonne. And I should, and maybe Kathleen can mention this again, but the Black Assembly of Amherst, Massachusetts, which some folks here on this assembly are also on this sort of organizing committee of, we can make sure that that information is also getting out there for folks. And those I believe, Hala, am I, those are open to all Black and African heritage residents in Amherst, okay, perfect. So are there any other closing comments from assembly members at this time? Yes, Dr. Rhodes. And you can just go, everyone can just. This has been really good. You know, obviously some of the comments that have been made have to be put through one's filter in terms of how the information is being received or how that information is being spread. And also in terms of, you know, as an old saying goes, no matter how thin the pancake, there are always two sides. And I think that it is really, really incumbent upon all of us to know that there are two sides to everything that anyone says and that information data and investigation is something that is incumbent upon all of us to do and that what one says or what another person says is just that is what they said and that we can look at that and look at that as a person who is informed and take that information in and take that information in and then utilize that information to make informed decisions after we have gone through an investigative process on our own. Knowledge is something that is acquired through effort and through diligence, due diligence in terms of what is said. Otherwise, if we only go on what is said by one person, we are then left to the mercy of multiple kinds of sayings that we then have to decipher. What I guess I wanted to say is that look, we have heard a lot that today and I really would like to hear a lot more. And we have important decisions to make and we have an expiration date and we need to again hear back from the African American community as well as all the stakeholders. I want to be very clear. We are a part of a community. We are a part of a community. We have an African American community. We have an African American community as a part of the Amherst community. The Amherst community, we have gone out and we have money being set aside for reparations. It is important that we engage not only the African Americans in this town, but also others. And that is why when we have this survey, it is not only important. It is really important to hear from the African Americans in terms of what we are intending to do or however we are going to go. But it is also important to hear from others in the community who elect the representatives who are on the town council. Thanks, Dr. Rhodes. Alexis. I will be super brief. I want to thank everybody for coming out and for all the comments. I will step away so I can end the broadcast. I truly thank everybody for their participation and I look forward to engaging more in the community. And engaging more of these dialogues with you also. Thank you. Thank you. And Alexis, before you step away, just a huge thank you to Amherst media. Thank you so much. Not only for tonight, but for everything that you do for the community. And please pass that on to the rest of the folks there. All right. Any other comments that any members would like to make before Kathleen. Reads the poem. Kathleen's really going to close this out. Okay. We can, we can certainly, I think if there are still more comments from members, we should, we should hear them. I'll wait for Kathleen. I'll wait for Kathleen. I want to feel the power. I think you will. All right, Kathleen, I'm even going to pin you. So just to me, which means we can really see you now. Please. Thank you. Okay. I just want to, before I read this poem. I just want to let people know. Whenever I am out in the public. I stopped black people wherever I am. In the grocery stores. On the street. At the bus stop. At the bus stop. Every single place I see a black face. I ask. Are you a resident of Amherst? Do you have an email address? You check regularly. My name is Kathleen Anderson. I'm working with. Town about reparations proposal. And I'd like to communicate with you further. I would like you to add you to a list of black residents of Amherst. Every single place I go, my daughter. When she's with me gets a little embarrassed. Mom, why are you looking at those people like that? Everywhere I go. Every store, every building, every, everywhere. And so I reckon I say that because. You can do that too. If you aren't already doing that. Okay. Okay. So. The next item is. Titled. Reparations now. Reparations tomorrow. Reparations forever. It is by Ashley M. Jones. She is the poet laureate of Alabama. A case for reparations. When governor. My grandmother was a sharecropper. My grandfather beat his black wife and black children. My uncle was arrested for a crime. He didn't commit. In America. Even the shadows of black people. Are black enough. To hide all innocence. Some nights. I dream of being killed like Emmett Till or Tray Van Martin. Or Sandra Bland. Or. You insert a name of a black person here. Some nights. I insert my name there. Is that the American dream. Governor. President. Mayor. Boss man. Woman with a cell phone or a police badge. Or a bank account. And the skin tender enough to make murder legal. When will you be tired of the taste of black blood. Sometimes I'm singing a song. And you and you make that feel like death. Sometimes. I'm dancing a dance. And you make that feel like shame. Sometimes. I'm on my porch just trying to eat a damn melon. And you make that feel like I'm selling my black soul. My parents told me I could be anything. Even God. That's the least I'm owed. I know I'm worth heaven. Yes. But also worth life on earth. My mother told us we were pretty enough to be dolls. We were pretty enough to be praised. In the book of Barbie. That's the least I'm owed. A face. Skin. Hair so obviously inherent. Inherently objectively. America. To hug and love. And look at with the eyes of dreams. One of those one of her pieces. What. You think all I want is money. What. You think money can ever repay what you stole. Give me land. Give me all the blood you ripped out of the black out of the backs. Our veins. Give me every snapped neck. And the noose you wove to hoist the body up. The screams you silenced in so many dark and lustful rooms. Give me the songs you said were yours. But you know came from our lips first. Give me back Martin Luther King Jr. And Malcolm X. And Medgar Evers. Give me back the beauty of my hair. The swell of my hips. The big of my lips. Give me back the whole Atlantic Ocean. Give me a never ending blue. And a mule. Ashley M Jones. Thank you, Kathleen. And I am going to turn it over officially to Dr. Shabazz to close us out. I just want to say thank you to everyone who was here tonight. And. We did have our engage Amherst link up previously so that's engage Amherst.org black black slash AHRA. And I think I read out the cell phone of the congressman he does have an email address in Northampton and I think that all of our assembly members, although we don't have our email addresses anywhere. I know are eager to hear from folks. So please do reach out. Please stay engaged. And thank you. And thanks to all of the assembly and to Pamela and to Jennifer. And to all of the counselors who came tonight. Thank you so much. And to all of the community. So Dr. Shabazz, please. Thank you. I want to reiterate that about this being. And an ongoing. Kind of process of collecting. Feedback of collecting what your questions are, what your concerns are, what your ideas are. Some are air. I think that's good to air here. We thank you for that. Some can air them in other formats. My own email is Shabazz at UMass.edu. Feel free to send something there. I will share with the rest of the AHRA. As you as you direct. The other thing that my, my, my son raised, I want to express to you, I want to express to you. I want to articulate the heart. And that's the question of disinformation and truth telling. We must at every point in this process be very firmly anchored in the truth. And telling the truth. You know, we, as soon as we. Were assembled as the AHRA. Within the next month, October. Of our first year in existence. We were very relative to the idea of funding. Was there going to be any funds behind this? Because if not, if there wasn't anything for restitution, compensation, anything involved, then we would just be about some symbolic acknowledgement. And we didn't want, we wanted to know if we were on firmer ground than that. And that's where we made recommendations. The one about, uh, we initially started with an idea of the, uh, tax, uh, tax revenue from, uh, the dispensaries, um, uh, recreational dispensary tax revenue. Okay. Compromises happened within that process and it came out instead as the, as, as what was mentioned tonight, trying to, uh, capture that money's not directly, but modeled on it and building up to two million. It takes 10 years to get there. If it takes two years to get there, but whatever the case may be, it's, it's not, uh, quite as was presented. Uh, and let's be clear. This was just trying to capture one, uh, funding stream. That there was conversation about, particularly from, from Alyssa Brewer, who had been on the select board and had been on the early part of the council before these revenues came up, raised the point that there had not been a discussion in the town, uh, in the new town council about that particular revenue. And with all of, again, my area of harm that I opened with was on criminal punishment with all of the disparities, all of the over prosecution, over sentencing and over policing of black people, particularly around marijuana use. There was a sense that it'd be, that that it would be only ethically and morally right to try and, and take those funds and reserve those funds in some reparative way toward that community that had been, been harmed by the way laws have been prosecuted around marijuana, uh, uh, consumption when it was fully illegal, when it back, when it was illegal, uh, on the local level. So that is just part. We have more that we have recommended already. And there is more that can be in our final recommendations. So please don't, don't leave with the consents that this 2 million is all it is, is all that we are recommending and is all that our town will do. That is not the case. That is not certainly what I hope will be the end product, but rather that that is just one funding stream that marked a, a, a, uh, a particular, um, uh, position that was taken from our council to at least do that much and to commit to that much. But we have looked at community preservation act. For example, our community preservation dollars that are funded out of our property taxes to 3%. Uh, and you know, those concern issues of historic preservation, open space, community housing, recreation. We are look, we are inviting feedback and vetting ideas that fall under though might fall under that rubric that we can recommend in our final report be taken up and be, uh, uh, looked upon, uh, within the work of the community preservation act committee and town council. So again, I just want to stress that the 2 million is not, was not an endpoint to the financial support that this town, is committed, is prepared to put behind reparative justice work. That was just one moment that we have, uh, started with to show, to show where we are. But I think there will be more in our final recommendations. Um, uh, I know where we have already discussed other streams. And, uh, and I say, hold on to our final report to see where, where we really are on, on that particular piece. But by all means, keep the conversation going, keep the feedback going to us. And, uh, and we will continue to work hard to get a, a report, uh, uh, produced that, um, really meets the needs of this town. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Shabazz. And, uh, just checking one last time with Hala and Dr. Rhodes and Yvonne. There are any further comments and also wanted to check in with Pamela and Jennifer to see if I've missed anything in terms of closing the meeting. Um, please do let me know. No, not that I'm aware of. We just announced a time. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, thanks again, everybody for being here. Thanks again to Pamela and Jennifer. Um, and, and to all. So have a very nice, uh, evening. It's nine oh four PM and we hope to see you soon. Okay. Bye-bye.