 I'll get you better ones All right, uh, oh wow people actually came in. Okay. Well, hi. Nice nice. Oh, sorry. Are you ready to begin? Okay Well, hi, so nice to chat with you all I'm So this is a follow-up to a talk that Ming Wang gave last false Asia and so this is sort of like the update I expect at most false ages for the next few years until we have our own conference Or I guess the company fails. We will we will be giving one of these So I'll be talking mostly about legal ease. This is our Twitter hint. This is me. I I'm the I'm the tech evangelist at legal ease. I do this kind of for fun And when I don't do that I work for the Ethereum foundation You want to talk about Ethereum? We can talk about that too. So Yeah, but here's I am I am the internet man mystery. It's you can like look it up There's a there's a there's a funny New York Times article about me So, okay, let's just kind of jump on jump jump on into it So these these are the the three basic things I'm going to communicate to you The first one is that you know, very computational legal This this was previously not a thing. Well, if you want to argue it's quite a thing yet we argue it will be a thing and it will probably make a lot of money and And it would be nice if we could make money and and colonize for open source as well Because you know, that's like, you know, you make a little better place and you make money, which is like, you know, two wins So the so for the techies out there as we argued Well, there's several ways that legal could be a good computationalized We argued it'll be through a fancy programming language that we are developing. You can see our get up there And then when you change up on things just about legal easing the company We are a Singaporean tech startup We're a little over a year old and we just raise our seed ground and then we'll tell you some lovely takeaways So let's tell you the vision first So the fundamental claim is so many industries have been Computationified and we we and we assert that the contract drafting will be will be the next one to fall And we're like awesome So here's some examples where this has happened before so this is a domain And this is a language that was invented to represent that domain And this is a company that made a lot of money after after after after inventing this language the start ones are Open-source languages. So perhaps the easiest example is Adobe so Adobe's first product was not Photoshop It was post script which gave an easy way for your printer structure to pay and they built various cool products on top of post script And this and this this pattern. This is this is this has happened several times With you know work on sequel another very nice one here is it is case if I were to so vision legal ease So if I were to claim the closest analogy to computational law, it would be case So here's roughly how it works back and say like the early to mid a's if you wanted to get to get a new chip design You would talk to your double e-frame. You'd say hey, I need a chip your double e-frame was like Oh, I'll get all the schematics, and then you'll send the schematics into the Escher But sometimes it's not to the Escher wire a is not connect wire B And you're like oh crap and you are just out about ten million dollars and your company fails So you're like, ah, that's wasn't what we're looking for So so so so developers they no longer write in the actual chip schematics They write in a higher level language called a very long will be HDL And so they do they this is the programming language you to write in software Hey, we're chip chip to go and it does it Extensive sanity checking before you send it to the Escher And so so the claim would be that signing a legal document is kind of like spinning it off to the Escher Because because because if there's a bug after you've signed it The bug will we should benefit one party more than the other and therefore and therefore they will not renegotiate So yeah, so so so we were claimed that just as in with with hardware once you send it off You know you really can't recall it with law. I want what you sign you really can't recall it So so yeah, so so with law so the the the market for legal is bigger than market for chips But it's probably smaller than that the printed page So the claim would be that some company will exist here within the next Oh, probably 10 to 15 years, and it will be worth somewhere between 7 billion and 45 billion. So Hey opportunity opportunity This oh it's gonna work Hello There we go Okay, here you go. Um, so so so if you will ask, oh, why will law be next? So here is here's a nice example. So this is a seed investment agreement after it's from Singapore And and so this is one that we actually actually received This is a very unpleasant to read if you want to you can get the feeling of it It's it's unpleasant, but it has this kind of if then kind of structure. It's oh, you know If it's back then this and so and so Ming show me this once maybe maybe a little under two years ago and he said Virgil Why wasn't it just this and I was like That's a good question man. It's a good question. And you know and particularly notice, you know, you know Then why the above line and the idea was when it says it. Oh, why can't I write this and have it compiled to this? So it kind of says English is like an assembly language, you know, you know, you know real human like You don't actually want one like write in this and then the claim is that modern legal drafting is It is you doing a simply programming by hand and you're like, oh, well This is it's like, oh, I mean if you actually want to like program program things, you know Yeah, we can show you much better ways of doing this and then assembly. We accept a lot of experience doing this So, yeah, so so the fundamental idea For commercial legal is you're right in this and compile to this So the the lawyers themselves actually somewhat came came to the same idea So this is a lovely paper if you want to I send it to you. This is by a practicing lawyer I think he was in New York and then he went to academia when academia He was teaching contract drafting and he used his old contracts that you know that were like very successful in his practice But then but then while teaching them he discovered his old contracts were were actually riddled with bugs and he was like Oh, you know, you know, maybe we should like fix these and and he has this kind of long paper In short word, he says that you know, you know bugs are everywhere And and he has this nice nice line at the end saying, you know saying saying oh saying oh well It'd be nice if we could test Contracts is sending away Engineers test for things and he has ideas of using the flow charts and mathematical notation and stuff like that However, he's basically unaware of ways of doing this in software. I mean, that's okay I mean, I mean, I mean he's a lawyer so here is so this is this is This is this is the things that are possible. So if you're a software developer You have heard of, you know, you know, probably at least half of these things and you just encountered them just through your career You know, you just really count them So these are all the tools that have been invented over the past say say 50 years to deal with code complexity and code bugs These are the tools that have been invented in the legal domain Over the same period of time. No, I know you're laughing. But no, like I'm like I'm like who be serious So so where we have different languages to get your formalisms They have a funny Latin phrases and we're and we have you know, you know Syntax highlighting and ideas and spacing they have word and where we have, you know, you know Get in any comparison they have fact changes and where we have great libraries with testing tutorials And so the idea would be that the rest of these lawyers have never heard of them. And so you're like, oh, well, you know Oh, you know, you know, you can make money here here here here Yeah, so so this so this would be sort of the the way to do it So the claim would be that you know You can take the past 50 years of learning how to do software well and just kind of like this kind of Imported and you're like, oh, you know, and then you just went like, oh, that's that's great So so so this is so this is this is kind of the legal industry today So this so this sort of the way that we think about it So this would be the Microsoft Word document. This is this is sort of like what it means and This is this is kind of like this kind of like your workflow. I don't want we'll zoom in on these So I'll give you some examples. So most most people doing law tech They're all over here because they haven't really never really figured out this kind of programming like idea yet But they will so here's some examples of this So a democracy they want to be sort of a get hub for law so you can upload your legal templates And you can download the mall and you like mix and match them One problem with that is that you just an end user You don't actually know that the templates that you need so for example So in Singapore you need like eight agreement eight eight different eight different documents to do an investment agreement And you probably don't know what those eight ones are and if you did, you know, you mean, you know I mean you probably a lawyer and you don't need us anyway So so so one issue with this is that it's very if you have all the templates You get there's like they're both little knobs on every template and every and all little knobs across the eight They all need to be the same and you're like, oh, you know, and you probably don't know those knobs Rocket Lawyer is kind of interesting. So they are a so actually these are both in Silicon Valley So rocket law they're doing a fancy machine learning on legal purposes and they had this idea that Only the only like intelligent clause and incentives completion. So they correctly noticed that a lot of you know legal contracts Then they're fairly mechanical. They're like, oh, they're mechanical. We basically do like Predictive completion for you very sensible idea. I would know that we do not When we program today, we do not do not really like function completion in like assembly You know, and like no one's ever wanted to do that I was like, oh, you know, you know, if we if you want to like make this simply easier We just go up to a higher level and so this is what we would say is what you actually do And this is so in this well Well, we don't have a second. So this is this is kind of so ideally you'd like to be able to see Kind of compile it like you do do like a c-program and it will kind of tell you all all the stuff that you can get out Well, we'll jump back that can't like that jumped that in a second So so this so this is kind of the future we would like So this is some code that we actually wrote in our preliminary language called l4 And the idea in the hope was that you could write something like this and click the compile button and get all your PDFs out So so so this is a code for a receipt agreement and the idea is that you just go oh generate you just go bam So a very common thing would be something like So say in Singapore there are several ways several different Investing investing that's in types. So one might be someone's like a little note. There's say a safe So common thing so so usually don't really know you shouldn't entrepreneurs. They don't really know what they want So usually pick convertible note, but the investor will say oh, well, I want a safe So the way you would do this for like a traditional lawyer say hey I just paid you, you know, like like like 5k to like to do the convertible note But now I want to say and the lawyer says okay great I will throw away the old work and I will make one of the safe for another 5k, you know, like ah Wasn't in but with this you could just like change and change a little thing at the top and you say recompile and you're like great So so this is the future that we would like to have so we'd like you to have so you have Your your code here this main and you like to say oh, you know to show me everything and these are the output languages here So the first thing you want to do like like this is sanity checking so you can say oh, you know, you have some flaws here But you know, but there's there's no way you can actually actually check that true Another might be oh so so it's the one thing we're studying. So okay. So a very common thing There there's a certain quote for processes you have to follow and entrepreneurs just typically just don't know them and they violate them like all the time without it without even knowing it and Unfortunately, you know, I mean, I mean usually it's like a small thing the government government doesn't really care But presumably you would like not to you know start your company with violating the law and that's usually not like That's not very like a way to start And you know that you also have have checking against you know existing norms So the idea is something like this so you want to output something like sorry visualization So you say so this is kind of like fuzzing of a contract. So fuzzing like computer security You have some black box of a function any sort of generate user drink, you know, you know Building different scenarios. You kind of say oh, you know what happens when I when I throw through these inputs into the function You might see something. Oh, I'd like to know is there ever a case where I give you a million dollars So I'd really like to know that Or is there ever a case where we're out where I give you mine on my company or my child Oh, you know, this would be you know, very important. I like to know about all this You can output to different natural languages. So so I just as you could you could compile to English You don't have a Mandarin or Bahasa or something like that And you actually have true multi-lingual contracts and have you know relatively Reasonable assurance that they say the same thing just the same way that with the C program you compiled is the x86 or arm You can compile to do to do different jurisdictions And you know and and you need bypass translations and stuff like that Something that's a little more exciting when we're dear to my heart is idea of also compiling to a theory. So So in principle, a theory would just be a one more jurisdiction It would be a little more complicated because so the space of I mean because the things that theory can do is Like like there exists some contracts Oracles and stuff like that So this might be like a little bit tricky, but I guess the idea is that you are automate as much as you can One cool idea about this is that so you can output to English as well as a theory and this gives you sort of a backwards Compatibility layer for graceful fallback to the traditional legal system when terrible things happen So one reason you don't want to use smart contracts. They're like, oh, what if we have a bug? I like our readers S. O. L. So the idea with this is like, oh, no this time. You're not so if something terrible happens You can go to a judge and you can say hey We agreed to this just hand like a hundred page PDF and and the judge never even sees the theory and it I said, oh a hundred page PDF Oh, I'm totally used to working with this and this and this gives it gives you a traditional fallback saying case something terrible happens You know like oh, well, that's great So this is kind of like an onboarding ramp to the fancy smart contract future that we all want so often So so if you have multiple things you're doing say say you know you're adding a director adding an investor There's a sequence of sequence in the order. You must do them in and some so they do them like in the wrong order So it'd be nice to get say oh, you know, here's the here's the order They have to submit these these documents in and this could also be done in an automated way There may be some deadlines and you can automatically export to them to iCal say oh these are your deadlines They also say oh, you know, these are your obligations for the contract and we can automatically Export these to your Microsoft project or to whatever so the hope would be like this is what we want like It's what we want. We want you to do this and if you can do this, you know, then you can conquer the world So I seen here so So okay, so the hope would be that so you could take English kind of like this and then after you sort of render them into math Then then then you can do then then the computer can do everything so it can make nice flow charts It can do scenario visualization. They can do sanity checks. It can say something like oh, you know Is there ever a case where someone is compelled to do x and people do y of it x and y they're Exclusive like oh, well, you know, you can't do that and therefore therefore you have a bug So like you should go fix that and you can yeah, and this is uh, and this is great And these are all things that lawyers have no idea you can do So so so so this so I showed you was the vision and this is what we have so far so our prototype language is called l4 l4 for legal and And an off because there's nothing else called l4. So it's nice and easy to Google So so so this is sort of the history of formalizations of contracts. So this is the first one So it goes back a while so this is the 86 So in this one, so this is for okay, so you know, it's a sense of particulars about the person And to determine if they qualify for for for bitter citizenship And there's like this big complicated flow truck that is actually a crazy act and there was holding a prologue. It's like oh, that's neat So this is kind of the first one. I'm a little more modern This is this is a PhD thesis doing this in a in high school for a wider variety of contracts This is actually probably our our favorite one So like there are there are many papers Doing this for I guess subsets of contracts if you want one that's for you know, a little more general This is probably the best one currently There's a funny thing actually almost all people doing this. They're all in Europe. Like I don't I don't really know why I mean, I'm from America. I'm usually like, you know, you know, you know USA number one But no, this is like this is like definitely like Dane Danish number one I'm just like, why are they all Danish if I were to guess it would be because you know, maybe they're used to the idea They're being so they have very similar legal concepts because they're all part of the EU But they all have different natural languages to this idea. So oh, we can like sort of draft the logic of the EU But then we output to the different the different local languages and just cultural core So this is another nice one. So this is I want to do it for for financial agreements We really like this one So financial agreements are like probably like the best to do this in first of all because that's where the money is But also secondly, it's also like like the easiest kind of like like there's like the most the simplest to take reason about They see all financial groups. They kind of go. Oh, you know, you know, you know This kind of money under some conditions turns into this other kind of money but then there's other kind of other kind of money and it's like oh, it's like the crazy flow chart and And and they run as oh, here's what you can represent these crazy flow charts using of using By state machines. So here's one that they wrote. It's in their paper. I mean, don't get me wrong I mean, it looks I mean, it's a little complicated. I mean, this is considered really nasty for a lawyer But you know for a software provider. Oh, we can handle that. That's not so bad I've definitely noticed that when lawyers think think they have complex contracts. Oh, it's nothing It's nothing like like a software developers. We deal with you know things hundred X thousand X of what they're used to So so this is good. So I I'm very optimistic about it So it's like sort of brute force all possible states of this and we can examine So so this is so so this is kind of the prior art This is sort of this sort of this is a reason why we think this this is novel. This is a good idea So this is so this is Ken Adams. So he's an American He's probably the the most famous contract drafter in the world and he tweets sometimes And when he tweets so he had this very nice one. He had his next question He was asking as two sentences acne shall keep the information confidential first acts acne Shall pay the purchase price and then he asked. Oh, you know, how how do we call these two things? amusingly he asked linguist it turns out that the distinction among these was actually solved 40 years ago in computer science. So here's this thing. It's called computation tree logic. We're representing events Here's a see how it is. So you start at the top and you move down the bottom and every single bottom is Every single every node below you sort of a possible future at the next time step and it gives you an excruciatingly detailed Grammar for detailing all like all possible futures and events among them and he and they're like Completely and this has been in about like 81. So I'll kind of show you how this works So all right. So so so you have some some some initial state. You're at the top and it says, oh There must exist some event So the next state. So okay, if I'm in state a which would be the red The next event must be state B and that'd be like the blue or it might be I'd be oh, you know, you know for one possible future. It must be state B another one would be oh, you know, you know You know in all possible futures B will always be true. This be something like you know, you know acting to keep the information confidential I know it might be in one possible future B will always be true another one would be In an all possible futures B will be true at least once this would be acting. You will pay the purchase price And there there it is that in one possible future B B B will be true once Or sophisticated we can say oh, you know in the future there will be You'll be you know some state B But it actually some state C and C will will always come after B. So example of this would be Be maybe you pay for something and then see, you know, you get to think ship to you I mean and there could be some play between the ship. Maybe the blank node there So and either this this whole this whole grammar this whole This is the way you express this in English and here it is in pretty treat in pretty tree diagrams So here's kind of like I mean we want to belabor the point But this would be acting she'll keep you pretty confidential because if you didn't come there till you know forever And this should this would be an acne will pay the purchase price because presumably only pay once And like and he's and like oh And what you can you can you can specify all kinds of things and why I like no clue you can do this But you know but but but in verification of software simple software for firmware. We've been doing this for about four years Yeah, so you know so this is this is sort of a taste for for for how language like this this will look So and basically we're working on it The problem is that so we want to kind of create like a periodic table of contracts Which actually has like never been done before and so this is not like a this is like a not really like a multi-month long project It's like a multi-year-long project. So So there will be updates coming on So so so yeah, so that's the vision. That's where we are so far and this is legalese in the company So this so we are a Singaporean startup. We were started in 2015 at JFDI Actually, I think we technically cooperated in six nodes at one area. Okay, so we started JFDI They were a Singaporean incubator. They recently shut down too So there's for their founders to go and do bigger and better things. We made our first. So origins was started so okay, so the way we started so The the startups within JFDI They'd be raising, you know, maybe maybe say a hundred thousand dollars But to do their seed round the longer we want somewhere between five and ten K And you know, and you don't really want to spend five to ten percent of all your money just on legal fees So they would often try and cobble together the Legalism themselves like online templates, but they'd usually do it wrong and and so Oh, we'd be nice to get into kind of a contracts on rails experience So they could so they could do do simple agreements and so and we made that it's it's a v1 It's not legal ease calm. That's meant to sort of be a I say to be usable by a determined user And yeah, so that's that's my first thing So this got got spun out of JFDI We we we want some grants if you're if you're curious if you see the blockchain space They give money for block chain stuff and you shouldn't doing things related to improving the Asian economy They give they give free free money So we've interested in working with the ethereum foundation So they are using like this so the claim is that just as it's easier to like fetch interest in a database using SQL Then it's a using JavaScript So currently you write a theory and contracts me a little bit like JavaScript So this is called a sense of solidity It is that when we make our l4 language We could replace the JavaScript solidity language with it and hopefully be you know more secure and things like that So you know that that's why a theory is interested because we might hypothetically become their their primary language We recently raised our seed round 444 for 300k We are basically we're doing a better version of the v1 app and we are we're interested in talking with that with IMDA So IMDA wants to do they want to have your query essential servers So I set my contract in a formal language and I and I asked IMDA. Is this legal and you know They'll give back you know a yes or no or or or or statutes. They're violating So it's sort of all sort of automatic compliance to make sure you know you're always the bank of law because you know I'm usually into that Yeah, and we're kind of doing revenue experiments So this is our view on product you can actually use this right now if you want This is this is this is where you can get get get your your c-fund raising for your Singaporean company for free And this is kind of like this is kind of what it looks like you can put your your your pre-money evaluation What kind of three times you want and you know who the entities are the investors are and you just hit generate and poof. There you go So so our business model here, it's it's a little disruptive So we're usually these things cost, you know five hundred two hundred dollars an hour We're doing this all in software, you know You I mean we do it like a dollar You know, you know a page and we don't really like care what's on the page You can be like as complicated as you want because you know, it's totally fine with us And yeah, so the same way that uber makes one dollar for me taxi ride in the world We want to make one dollar for from from every contract signed in the world and that's like fundamentally the idea and it's turning business is turning contract drafting from a High-high market low-volume business to a high-volume low-market business So, so yeah, so that that's that's a kind of the idea Are we're done? Oh, okay. All right. All right. No, okay. Well, basically done. This is this is our expansion path We'll start here. We'll stand out This is some smart people think think think this is a good idea So this is this is Mark Andreessen. He's a famous Silicon Valley investor and he says yes, this idea is great You should do it and he says yes, we will do it And this is what we have for you if you want free investment people work. It's free Just get it. If you wait a few years later, it'll be about $10. So, but you know, but now it's free and if you want if you're curious interested in And you know kind of like a revenge of the nerds on on on law You know where the law is like the cool kids and you were like the logician You know, this you can you can read you can read about how to beat them And eventually we'll be offering you Language doing this and right now so we're here We're looking for people that want to give us money to do research and we're looking for people that are interested in Programming languages and past school experience. So if you're interested in and joining us with that Those those are kind of like the requirements and then we're done Sorry, I didn't know I went over Oh, I was really late then. Oh, okay. I always really late. Okay